‘Tropic Thunder’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Van Lathan, and Joel Anderson

21:10It's like the biggest part of somebody's year to seriously talk about it. was more of a niche pursuit. And now it's not uncommon. I mean, maybe we have bias because we live in Los Angeles and it comes up a lot. But like, you'll hear people be like, oh, I heard that movie has a really good shot in the Oscars.

21:29Bill Simmons:Right, that was the dialogue. That kind of started in the 90s and then got even better in the 2000s. I, as a movie fan, especially somebody who had an illegal cable box for years and years and was watching all these movies, was offended by how bad some of the movies are. You said you had a what? I had a legal cable box. Don't try to like... for years. And a legal cable guy like your gym. Yeah. Don't try to... Big Al. We paid Big Al to come over. He souped up our box. We got all the pay-per-views for like four years. Now, this is amazing. This is interesting. I loved it. I've never heard you talk about your criminal exploits on any podcast.

22:00I've talked about it before. I've talked about it. Oh, Big Al? Yeah. I've talked about Big Al. I thought maybe you was doing this for me and Joe. As a younger person, I used to tell him about you switch the channels back and forth really fast to get Skinamax. What crimes have you committed?

22:14Bill Simmons:I can't really talk about this was my favorite crime I ever committed because it would be the pay-per-views and they would be just on every two hours that's fucking amazing some of these movies would come on like Patch Adams and they would just be on on channel whatever and you'd be like what the fuck were they doing making the how did anyone what dreams may come with Robin Williams oh I love that movie you like that movie yes I am Sam like they would just make shit movies year after year what about radio oh yeah but radio is based on a real person though you know what I'm saying some of these movies I don't mind radio some of these movies are good.

22:44You don't mind radio. Spotify radio. You don't mind radio. Somebody has some. It's okay. Somebody's movies are. But also, remember, serious movies at a time were about serious topics. And sometimes somebody's, when you, somebody's like, they don't fit into society for whatever reason. They're having trouble. That was a serious topic.

23:05Bill Simmons:But this started in TV in the, really the late 70s, early 80s with the after school specials and different strokes and these shows where somebody just sent me one today about the time Arnold and his buddy were on the street. And somebody had this. They got molested. Oh, no. Not a molested one. Somebody had a seizure in front of them. And this lady just has a seizure for like a minute and a half. It was a special episode about seizures. I know you're going to remember this. This is how you learned about stuff. Do you remember the Ben Affleck one when he was taking steroids? The steroids. He punches the...

23:38Oh, I do remember that one. You got to remember that one. What about Helen Hunt jumping off the roof?

23:42Bill Simmons:Helen Hunt jumping off the roof. She was on acid, right? Yeah. That's how we learned about this stuff. And then eventually it drifted into movies and better shows, but still. The actors in this. So we've been still rapping an incredible 11-year run as comedy leading man, which we covered in There's Something About Mary. Jack Black, at a really weird point in his career, trying to stay on top. King Kong, 2005. Holiday, 2006, which I think has had a lot of legs. He did the Tenacious D movie. is it Margot of the Wedding in 2007? Yeah. It's kind of like, am I a comedy actor? What am I? So he's at that point.

24:19Bill Simmons:And then Downey, as CR mentioned, putting together his comeback of Zodiac, Tropic Thunder, Iron Man, where all of a sudden he's an A++ lister. Yeah, it's starting to finally pick up after Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is sort of his like, hey, I can be bonded. I had forgotten how close that was to the time that he had been in prison. Yeah. Right. And couldn't get insured. Right. Because that was the thing up to a point, I think probably when I saw this movie, I thought of Robert Downey Jr. That was the junkie. You know what I mean? That was a guy who was a problem. That was what he was known for. That's what he was.

24:49That was what all the stores were.

24:51Bill Simmons:McConaughey. Don't want McConaughey. Trying to hang on to the A-list. He was in the wilderness. No, this is... After this movie, he does Fool's Gold, Surfer Dude, Ghost of Girlfriends Past, and Lincoln Lawyer. Like, it's not going well. Well, the Lincoln Lawyer is a good movie, but it comes on the heels of that. He's in the wilderness. Is it a good movie? Oh, I like, yeah. I think the Lincoln Lord is a good movie. Is Lincoln Lord a good movie? Yeah, I think it's a good movie. I don't know if I remember what happened to Lincoln Lord. Lincoln Lord is fine. Yeah, it's actually a pretty enjoyable thriller.

25:18But it's like him kind of getting his footing back because he is flirting with obscurity during this time. Yeah. This is like after Sahara. A couple rom-coms that went sideways. Don't know what to do with him. And then in the next decade, obviously Dallas Buyers Club, Interstellar, True Detective, all of these things are going to bring him back. but him in this movie right now is him staying on the tips of people's toes the actual start of the McConaissance so like mostly people think it's Magic Mike Dallas Buyers Club Wolf of Wall Street, True Detective, Interstellar in some order but I actually think it's this and Eastbound are like kind of like oh this guy has like a whole other gear that he can play with and also and he also is crucially yes he's like I'll play a supporting part yeah like I don't have to lead everything I'm in it's probably easier to sell them on that Joel plays supporting part of all I gotta do is get some rebounds I got five pounds y 'all not listening to the tellgate that's Joel podcast it's not y 'all not listening to tellgate Joel is out there every day I'm a role player man like Jokic putting up rebounds that's the big board I come for exactly let me tell you when we went to Rose Bowl everybody's coming up the van in the motherfucker man I was like how does it feel to be famous Alright, let's move on.

26:38Tom, more on McConaughey later. Tom Cruise, he's at another crazy point.

26:42Bill Simmons:We're three years after Oprah's sofa. We're in the middle of the Katie Holmes weirdness. Oh, man. With that weird Scientology interview he did. We have Paramount dumping him. And he's about to follow this up with Valkyrie and Night and Day with Cameron Diaz. Can I ask a question about whether we look back at this? in 08 there was a part of me that was like is Les Grossman kind of cringy? Not because I didn't like the character but it was like he's trying really really hard in this moment. Like, no? So when I first saw this movie this is the first movie I ever went to a screening of. It's Shopping Thunder.

27:21This is my first screening ever that I ever went to. You took Sasha Gray? Oh boy. Don't get me started though. there's some people that occupy a special place you didn't have to do that I almost forgot what I was about to say but I'm serious cause there's this one you started screening she's in like a keep going go back to the screen time cruise so well I actually want the Sasha Grace in the movie this is still so like this is the first screening ever this is gonna sound so crazy y 'all not to the end I did not know it was him yeah that's a recurring theme in the research most people didn't know I did not know it was him.

28:01And then the guy, Tim Wells, producer I was working with at the time, goes, stay, watch this. He's getting ready to leave. And it's like, Tom Cruise. I'm like, what the shit? And I thought to myself that exact same thing even back then. I'm like, why did he show up in this? But he was so universally reviled at that point.

28:20Bill Simmons:Yeah. Like, it's so difficult for people. I think the two biggest comeback stories in modern Hollywood memory are both in this movie. Robert Downey Jr. and Tom Cruise. I think Travolta's in there, too. Travolta's absolutely in there, right? That's a great point. So, three. But, like, he was so universally the weird guy. Shut up, man. He was universally the weird guy. He did some good stuff in the 2000s. Yeah. Had some golf. Had some celebrity golf. I mean, man, he was a correspondent on the camp. Speaking of OJ Simpson, do you know who advocated for him at the Rose Bowl? Not advocated. Like, we're going in there, and Joe is making sure that O.J.

28:58Simpson is in the Rose Bowl Hall of Fame. It just would be absurd if you went to the Rose Bowl Hall of Fame and you didn't mention O.J. That's what I thought. And I just wanted to make sure that this was a valid point. Yeah, and he was listed there among the people that ended up in the Rose Bowl Hall of Fame. I think that's fair, but I also think it's kind of interesting to walk into the Rose Bowl Hall of Fame, and the first thing you say is, where's O.J.? I think what he's saying is true, but I think I'll ask about Vince Young first. No, you're nothing.

29:25Bill Simmons:It's okay. Let's keep... So you saw a screening, had no idea it was Tom Cruise, which was most people. Did you know Tom Cruise was in this when you saw it? That's hard for me to remember in 2008, but I watched it with Liz who had never seen this movie and she did not know it was Cruise until halfway through the movie. I said, you know that's Tom Cruise, right? Was she like, what the fuck? Yes. It's really good makeup. Yeah. And it's... Physically, it just doesn't seem like him. They also kept him from all promotional materials. Yeah. They did like... They were... I think they sued like a tabloid for taking pictures of him going from like his trailer to the set.

29:56But there was a moment there where like, maybe it's more like after the movie came out where I felt like he was obviously not a trained comedian because he was like overworking the joke a little bit. And it felt like for a second you could get him to show up as Les Grossman at like college game day. You know what I mean? It's like Les Grossman was available, it felt like.

30:18Bill Simmons:Yeah, I think he was just happy. He just wanted people to clap for him. He did it at the MTV movie. He did it at the Jennifer Lopez. It kind of didn't work that well, but he was just happy that people were like, oh, it's Tom Cruise. See, I thought instead of being reviled, I thought more than anything, people thought he was weird. You know? And that's different than being reviled because people are like, I don't even know. The Katie Holmes thing, I think, turns people off. The Katie Holmes thing, but also the Matt Lauer thing. Oh, when he was yelling at Matt Lauer. Yelling at Matt Lauer, the whole deal.

30:49People were like, this guy's an asshole. like what is he talking about he's too far gone

30:53Bill Simmons:Paramount dumping his deal was a pretty crazy thing to think back on and the Spielberg breakup had happened a couple years before that too and then the last one in this Nick Nolte former A-lister from the 70s and 80s most normally played Jack Hates are you shocked to know he's 85 years old Nick Nolte how is he still alive 85 years yeah I mean he seemed like a guy that should have died at like 67 I think he's the only one that they had to replace on SNL when he was guested. That was one of the famous Eddie Murphy episodes because Nick would just party too hard and couldn't host it. The crazy thing is that he doesn't look that much older in Crime 101 that he did in Tropic Thunder.

31:34Like, it's basically like he hit old age and just has been there.

31:38Bill Simmons:An amazing run for him. It's one of those that when he dies, nobody's going to be like, what? No! He's worn his career. I mean, even if we were talking about Downey, I mean, he had gotten arrested like a bunch of fucking times. Like going leading into this too. And that was just kind of, you just kind of expected that. Like I felt like he and Gary Busey were kind of like the same person to me a little bit. It was just like, oh, those are the old guys from the 80s who are always like getting DUIs and shit like that. Yeah, you know what? There was like a weird thing talking about the difference between now and 08.

32:07There was more of a distance, I feel like with celebrity then. So like when Downey would get arrested, you'd be like, oh. And then you'd kind of keep it moving. Yeah. But now it would be like,

32:18Bill Simmons:what's the first pod Downey's going to go? go on after this and people writing these parasocial posts about it. You would never be able to get away from it. Call her daddy. Come on. I will say that there was something about Robert Downey Jr. at that time though. All of the trouble that he was having, like Hollywood was mourning it. Hollywood was like, Hollywood was mourning it. He had been around for so long. Going back to like weird science and the pickup artists and all of these movies and then he And Chaplin. And then he's in the James Toback movie. He starts to get into the weird indie thing at the end of the 90s.

32:56Then he comes out on Ally McBeal and it's like, oh my God, he might be back, but then he can't stay straight for that. People were really sad for whatever reason. You could tell, even in the tabloids where they would cover it, how well liked he was. And they were happy when he got it together. Like when he got straight and came back and delivered in Iron Man, delivered in Zodiac, delivered in this. People were, they rolled out the red carpet for him to strung back into the town. I'm just going to see Downey and U.S. Marshals every couple of years. And I'll be like, oh man, that guy could have been a contender.

33:25Bill Simmons:It was almost like an athlete. You think of like, oh man, Kenny Anderson. They only kept their shit together. How many of those did we have in basketball and football over the years? Dwight Gooden? Kenny Anderson was the man. We're going to take a quick break and then more to discuss with this movie. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Right now at McDonald's you can get great deals all day with McValue. That's right. Jumpstart your day with the under$3 menu featuring a sausage McMuffin for just$1.50 or grab the perfect lunch with the McDouble for just$2.50. Honestly, nothing pairs with a movie marathon like a McDouble in hand.

34:06Bill Simmons:God, I love the McDoubles. Get even more value with McValue only at McDonald's. Limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business. So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply.

34:45Bill Simmons:Service is not available in all areas. Alright, let's go through the characters. Ben Stiller is Tug Speedman. Hit it big with the Scorcher franchise. They made six. I was getting to this later. Let's do it now. What's Scorcher about? What's happening in Scorcher? Is it like a global warming? They tell you in the first trailer. The Earth has stopped spinning. So in Scorcher, the Earth has stopped spinning. So because the Earth has stopped spinning, I guess, volcanoes and the atmosphere. It's like a day after tomorrow kind of vibe. But he's like commando. He's like Schwarzenegger. He's some sort of commando who is saving people in this post-apocalyptic deal.

35:26The Earth has become a scorcher and it's destroyed.

35:29Bill Simmons:So each sequel, it's still the same premise. The Earth is still colder. I think the last one, it was like literally honestly not against the premise. I would at least give one. If it was Gerard Butler and Scorcher, I'm like Not pay-per-viewing that. I did not know what that movie Greenland was. Okay? I did not know what it was. You think it was Scorcher? I was going to the movies. Greenland I watched for the first time Saturday. That is legitimately a fucking good movie. Dude, Butler doesn't miss that often, man. Legitimately a good movie. I expected Greenland to be corny. I'm watching it and trying to get on a plane.

36:05It's legitimately a good movie.

36:07Bill Simmons:So he, Joel, he went serious after all the Scorcher. He was once the biggest star in the world. Ended up playing Simple Jack, a special needs farm boy who can talk to animals. I feel like we got to do comps, right? Who is Tug Speedman in Hollywood? He's Tom Cruise. It's Cruise? Really? No, no, no, no. Cruise had all the prestige in the 80s and 90s. I think the reason why Tom Cruise is in this movie is because he thinks it's funny that Stiller is doing a riff off of him because Stiller had been doing a Tom Cruise character for a long time. And then they had done the, like, I'm Tom Cruise's stunt double thing, right?

36:43Yeah, he's definitely Tom Cruise to me.

36:45Bill Simmons:I thought it was, like, a cross between Cruise and the Mission Impossibles and, like, Stallone just trying to keep Rambo going, crossed with nine other Hollywood guys. Well, and also, those guys would often make—now, none of them, I don't think, did something like Simple Jack, but they would, every once in a while, make, like, a family movie where you'd be like, what the fuck are you doing, man? You're Jean-Claude Van Damme. Is there a world where Simple Jack could have worked? Like, was Downey right? Kirk Lazarus lays out how? Kirk Lazarus was like, I think Simple Jack needed a special skill.

37:13Bill Simmons:Yeah. He needed to be good at Black Jack. If he could talk to farm animals, you'd become an asset on the farm. The thing I was just trying to determine, is Forrest Gump that far off Simple Jack or not? I couldn't tell. Like, good at ping pong. Good at ping pong. Talk to the president. Right. Forrest Breakdown is wet. Charmed Richard Nixon. Yeah, I remember. Started a running movement. Right. So, Scorcher 6 Global Meltdown was supposed to be the comeback. Yeah. I like that title too alright so that's him then we have Jack Black as Jeff Portnoy a movie comic star with a stealth heroin problem I would describe him as Adam Sandler crossed with later Carity Murphy crossed with late 70s Belushi and Farley maybe Farley and some Farley yeah recently the star of The Fatties Fart 2 I absolutely would have seen this with both of my kids I would have seen The Fatties and The Fatties Fart 2 I was trying to imagine It sounds great.

38:09It's a great idea. Ben Simmons' level of interest in fatties over Tropic Thunder would have been off the charts.

38:15Bill Simmons:No question we would have owned it on multiple platforms. Streaming, DVD. Great idea. Still time. The white nutty professor, man. Yep. Robert Downey Jr.'s Kirk Lazarus, Australian method actor. Yeah. Five-time Oscar winner. That would be the record, by the way. It would be. It shatters the record. That was a good pick that they made him the all-time leading Oscar winner. Star of Satan's Alley and then also played Neil Armstrong in Moonshot. We never really found out what the premise what was the premise of Moonshot? I don't know, but he had Is it like a thriller? He had to like re-acclimate himself to the Earth's atmosphere coming back from that movie.

38:52It sounded great. And he's supposed to be a combination of Russell Crowe, Colin Farrell, and Daniel Day-Lewis. It felt like a lot of Russell Crowe. Well, the Australian part.

39:01Bill Simmons:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like him naked on the balcony. He was supposed to be Irish in some of the research I saw. The character was supposed to be Irish. No, I can do Australian. I had controversial pigmentation alterations in Tropic Thunder. I like this shot of them in the operating room. He's like, yeah!

39:22Bill Simmons:Steve Coogan plays director Damien Cockburn. The director of Tropic Thunder. I guess in the research it said this was inspired by director Richard Stanley's experience directing The Island of Dr. Moreau. A movie that I've wanted to do for the rewatchable for eight years. Did you watch Reigns of Madness? The Hearts of Darkness of Tropic Thunder? By Thoreau? Yeah. So, there's more Damien in that, and he talks about how he's, what is he, 50 % Werner Herzog, 50 % Francis Coppola, and 50 % Peter Bogdanovich. And he's like, well... It's too many percentages. you guys in an island of dr murrow in general as a movie but i mean like marlon brando just that movie how fucking crazy it is nuts i love late stage brando i love cr makes fun of me because i made it a gimmick when at grantland with the the island of dr simbo yeah but cr thought it was the most most deranged thing i ever did although i came around to where was that it was just like a hodgepodge mailbag that i named after the Dr.

40:26Bill Simmons:Morell movie because I was the only one that liked it. That was another one with Big Al's Cable Box. We were just watching it over and over again and after like nine times you kind of got it. Yeah. I understand what they were trying to do. Kilmer didn't want to be in the movie is the problem. I blame, I blame. That was one where Val milled in. There would be at Grantland like Bill would come up with a gimmick and then walk off and then it would be up to us to kind of see it through. But like he would be like 93 days until the NBA season. Let's do a post every day about counting it down. And then he'd come back like day 61.

40:53He's like, oh, you guys are still doing that? We're like, what the fuck are we going to say? It's August.

40:59Bill Simmons:Well, we did that, remember for the, we did that for NFL, right? Yeah. Because we had two sports and a lockout. Yes. So we had to start doing a countdown to when we were going to actually get sports. Yeah. Oh, man. Sad times. Nick Nolte as Four Leaf Tayback. Danny McBride as Cody Underwood. Big McBride run here. Yeah. Hot Rod, Pineapple, Thunder, Eastbound all in three years. He's just in our lives, for real. When he's about to do the explosives run, he's like, Damien, Damien, I need to put some Tiger Balls on this. It's like, he is really like, you can tell the vibrations coming off of him that he's like a significant guy.

41:40Bill Simmons:He's one of those that, Craig, did we have enough all-NBA teams and MVP ballots for him over the years? He's like the funniest guy in the 2000s that never became a star. Yeah, man. Could a guy like that become a star? He became, to me, he became like a force. Like a force. But not like a... I mean, he was never... He said like 12 years of an HBO show. I know, 12 years of HBO shows, and then also creatively, because he was the creative force behind a lot of this stuff and stuff like that. To me, it got to a point to where he was the most consistently funny line reader in the town. For sure. Like, he said a line, the line was funny.

42:18Bill Simmons:That was, this is the end was his impact. Yeah, this is the end. like everybody else is talking when he talks you laugh first season of Eastbound and Down is all time you know the problem was is that when you would see him outside of that arena and like if you if you watch Prometheus and Danny McBride in Pre or he's in Covenant you couldn't wrap your head around it in Covenant you're just like yo man like when is he gonna do Kenny Powers and it's almost like too much yeah I can see that I don't know where he ranks on the funniest people of the 21st century for me But he's top five. I don't think he's out of the top ten.

42:54P.E.R. is like top three. I mean, pound for pound, he's number one. I don't think he's out of the top ten for me. I'm going to mention a movie that not a lot of people love, but it's legitimately one of the funniest movies that I love. Did you guys see Your Highness? Yeah. Oh, yeah, a long time ago. Hysterical. Like, legitimately. It's stupid, but hysterical. You know the great thing about him, too, is anybody who's in a scene with him, they also automatically get 10 % funnier. So when he's in a scene with Will Ferrell, you're like, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. But he can make like John Hawks hilarious.

43:30You know, like the dude from Deadwood who's in Eastbound. Right. Natalie Portman and Your Highness is like really funny. It's just the only person I've ever seen not make more funny is Nick Nolte. It's just like, well, it's just Nolte. Well, that was the thing. I was just like, well, I guess we'll talk about it later. But that pairing, I had a really high expectation. for them, you know?

43:50Bill Simmons:When I showed my son Eastbound when he was finally old enough, he had the same look on his face for three episodes that Jack Black does when he sees the pile of heroin in the movie. It was like... It was just every funny bone possible just slamming. It was everything he would want. Kenny Powers. Jay Baruchel is Kevin Sandusky. Not knowing that the Sandusky thing had not happened yet. Man, that had not happened yet. That's five years earlier. Unfortunate last name. I think he's really good at this movie. Yes. I was thinking about Casting Couch later I'm like oh who should And I was like you know what I really liked him He's also the only one Playing in the lane lines He's like yeah I know I'm not supposed to be The funny one in this movie And then uh Brandon T.

44:32Bill Simmons:Jackson Is Al Pacino Al Pacino yeah That's my guy Is he really your dude? That's my man Brandon T. Jackson Is a homie of mine He was on a run He was on a run During this time All big movies Percy Jackson Big Mama's House Like a lot of big movies he was in and this kind of was like he was a very familiar face in Hollywood at the time he's excellent in this movie he's great he is I would not he is not on my casting couch I would not replace him really? no because there was some Kevin Hart stuff that we'll talk about later but like you know we're still kind of in Chappelle range where he could have I think played this but there's I think he's actually really good I thought he goes toe to toe with everybody in the movie and he's good he also was a businessman with the Bust the Nut candy bars and booty sweater Booty sweater.

45:19Bill Simmons:Booty sweater. Booty sweater. Booty sweater. We'll talk about him later. And then Cruise as Les Grossman. So the producer, Stuart Corn. We did an oral history of Les Grossman for Grandland. And apparently Tom read the script. There was no Les Grossman. And he said, I think you need another villain. What about some greedy pig studio executive? Represents the gross part of Hollywood. And then Cruise developed a lot of it. Wanted oversized cans. They put them in a fat suit. bald cap. Kind of Joel Silver-ish. Didn't they say it was Weinstein, Silver, and one other? It's weird. In the research, they're like, it wasn't based on anyone, but I never believed that.

45:58Bill Simmons:I always feel like somebody's based on somebody. Yeah, Joel Silver is a good one. But I think the screaming at people is rude. And then Bill Hader. Early Bill Hader. Early young Bill Hader. As his assistant. And then McConaughey as Rick Peck. Is there a third Peck? There was Walter. Walter Peck. Dennis Peck from Internal Affairs and Rick Peck. Rick Peck. Rick Peck. Could have done Peck Month. We should do another category that's like which Peck should be in this movie. Best Peck. And then a ton of cameos. What's your favorite cameo in this, Joel? Man, you know, Tyra Banks. That's a good one. Tyra Banks is great.

46:35I mean, because first of all, she's playing like a version. I know that look. God. That was a nostalgic. I used to love her look. Speaking of 90s shit, that was probably the last time I looked at Tyra Banks and I was like, That's it right there You know what I mean God damn Well I mean Nothing happened to her I don't mean to be disrespectful She's still a beautiful woman But I mean everything we know about her now She was cruising back then She was cruising Yeah I avoid For his reaction Not winning the Oscar Yeah I Tobey Maguire man

47:06Bill Simmons:Little Wonder Boys Throwback Little Wonder Boys Touching the prayer beads That's hilarious Lance Bass just showing up He's like I'll do it Oh Lance Bass That was pretty good they said they only had like three hours with toby because he was flying somewhere so they had to film like all of his stuff they had like this short window to get it done he had like a poker game in macau he had to go to yeah probably it's going to bali's game uh the premise which 10 soldiers went for return three wrote books only one was turned into a movie about a secret assignment in 1969 stiller developed it because uh he was shooting empire of the sun he had a small part and thought some of the actors were very self-important and self-absorbed and self-involved and appeared to believe they were actually part of the military.

47:54So I was trying to figure out who he was talking about. Malkovich is the person he is in that movie with. Those are the two American soldiers who adopt Christian Bale when they're on this base in Japan. But yeah, it's hard to tell because I don't think of Malkovich as somebody who would be like, I'm a soldier now, but maybe I'm wrong. You know what's interesting about this, though?

48:15Bill Simmons:And I like Ben Stiller. I do think he has a reputation for taking himself a little too seriously. And it's funny that he came up with this movie because he noticed people taking themselves too seriously. Isn't that part of the rap? Kind of the genius part of this movie is people like, all these actors are beating people to the punch with the criticism you would level at them. You know what I mean? It's like Tom Cruise is going to lampoon Hollywood, so you can't really lampoon Tom Cruise. Ben Stiller is lampooning self-involved leading men. You know, that means he's kind of bulletproof about it.

48:47It's an interesting tactic. With the exception of Downey, though, don't you, I'm sure we'll talk about this later, don't you all kind of feel like they're playing basically a version of themselves? Yes. Right. And even Downey, Downey, they make sure to put in the character that this guy has like a bad boy off-screen image and stuff like that. So Downey is playing who people thought he was maybe in like 93 or 94.

49:08Bill Simmons:All right. Did you ever still run your pod? I think I did. Who? In the late 2010s. After this. After Tropic Thunder. After Tropic, yeah. Wait, what? I was asking if he ever had still run his pod. Oh, really? Oh, shit. Okay. All right, let's talk Downey and Kirk Lazarus. I'll just give you some quotes. Downey said, at the end of the day, it's always about how well you commit to the character. If I didn't feel like it was morally sound, where that would be easily misinterpreted that I'm just C. Thomas Howe and Soul Man. It's tough. I would have stayed home. C.T.H. Drive-by. C.T.H. Just like, what did I do?

49:46Bill Simmons:I'm over here. I'm just a working actor. I was thinking of it because I think Soul Man was one of the first movies that's on a VHS tape. And we got it from Blockbuster. And at the time, I don't remember thinking it was all that offensive. My parents loved that movie. It wasn't bad. We laughed. I saw that. You guys, first of all, I'm just letting you guys know, I'm 46. I'm telling you, right, my parents loved that movie. They loved it. We would watch the movie, and I remember as I got older, you know, I was like, one day I was like, you're like, huh? I was like, this is fucked up. Now, here's the deal.

50:26It's interesting that he would take a shot at Soul Man. We'll talk more about Soul Man later. Because even in Soul Man, the movie is attempting in a really, really fucked up way to make a commentary and a critique on race. The movie is attempting to lampoon someone that will go or make fun of somebody that will go that far and use something intended to help black people to help themselves. And the movie is an exploration about what that character kind of learns about black people by doing this really stupid, silly thing. But you just can't get past what the movie does. I don't think you can find it.

51:03I don't think it's streaming. I can't imagine that's the case with the way that 4Ks and Blu-rays are now. Well, I'm sure Sean probably knows it. We've got to find that. Sean's got this special steelbook edition of Soul Man. Sean got it from New Zealand. It's a big picture, a podcast about movies.

51:17Bill Simmons:Well, today we talk about Soul Man starring C. Thomas Hopkins. I vaguely remember what happens, but wasn't he got a scholarship at Harvard? But it turns out Rae Dawn Chong should have gotten the scholarship, and now she's putting herself through. He couldn't pay for it. Yeah. He couldn't pay for it. Howard Law School But he took it from Radon Chong He got into Harvard But he couldn't pay for it And for some reason His dad wouldn't pay Because he didn't get A scholarship Or something like that So he got He wanted to get The aid The money And he Did blackface Did you know about this movie Craig?

51:53Bill Simmons:Yeah but I've never seen it Just because we've talked about it He took tanning pills To get blackface So Brandon T. Jackson said When I first read the script I was like Like, what? Blackface? But when I saw him act, he became a black man. It was just good acting. It was weird on the set because he would keep going with the character. He's a method actor. I bet that was weird. Stiller said he's playing a method actor who's gone to great lengths to play a black guy. The movie is skewing actors in how they take themselves. So seriously. And then last thing, Downey was so committed to it that he did the DVD commentary as the character instead of Robert Downey.

52:28Bill Simmons:All right. I would. Go ahead. No, you go. I just think it's interesting that you could make the argument that he does not take himself seriously as an actor again until Oppenheimer. Like, he does Iron Man. I'm not saying he's not taking that seriously. Just go ahead and shit on him. He's largely, like, playing. Like, there is very few roles that he does in between this and basically— Like, he's playing the character of movie actor Robert Downey just popping into movies. And it's like, I almost wonder if he got, like, too close to the sun on this one. Now, I'll say this. I actually think that there are a couple movies where he tries it.

53:05I think he tried it in The Soloist. I think he tried it in what's the one? The Judge. The Judge. And I just think he just got to a point to where to fit those movies into something that audiences were loving so much. Yes. He just went, I can't do it. Like, I'm taking some swings. I want to be. Robert Downey Jr. to me, always wanted to be taken. He's such a great fucking actor. he wanted to be taken seriously as a serious actor Tony Stark was never going to be enough for him

53:34Bill Simmons:but he also made insane amounts of money insane amounts of money Iron Man and I think that probably changed it getting was good and even after this right he did Oppenheimer he won and then he goes back to the MCU because now that he's proven that thing to everyone it's like a safe place go back get another 70, 80, 100 million dollars you know what I mean yeah I just I don't know man I kind of feel like if he had just if any, I'm trying to think if there's anybody else that would have been able to pull this off because, really? I know, I was like, honestly thinking of the people who he's supposed to be lampooning and how bad it would have been if Russell Crowe or Colin Farrell tried to do this.

54:15It would have just been like, we can't, we got to burn the negative. Colin Farrell would have been with more black women than Robert Downey Jr. Colin Farrell, we got proof. It's on video. You've been into it. But like, you can watch it. But, but, I'll say this. when you think about it, that's actually a good point, like a fantastic point. Downey is one of the most unique talents that has ever come out of town. Like super unique. He can charisma his way through a movie. He can straight act his way through a movie. He can comedy his way through a movie. He's like, he's got a weird Hanksean thing.

54:50Not quite the everyman thing that Hankse has got going on. He can't get there. But he's got like a really, really deep skill set. In my life, I didn't know that he had like a comedic background. Like, I didn't, I had not know. It's a Saturday Night Live. He was on Saturday Night Live. Yeah. I mean, I had not known that was his background. No, I mean, I think it's something, if you had probably gone back to like pre-Chaplin, before Chaplin, like less than zero, some of the stuff that he was doing in the 80s, you would probably be like, this is going to be Dustin Hoffman, right? Like, this is going to be, this guy could do anything and might do a range of comedic and drama performances.

55:25So for him to take 15 years, almost 20 when we get to Doomsday to be like, I'm going to basically play Tony Stark, a couple of Sherlock Holmes movies, a couple of throwaway kind of Hollywood dramas. Just trying to see if I can bite the dramatic apple. I always think about, I mean, PTA has debated about how real this was, but he was supposed to be an inherent vice. He was supposed to play the detective that Joaquin Phoenix played. And I was always like, man, what would it have been like if Downey had done Inherent Vice and like a really challenging, cool movie with PTA. And we'll just never know.

56:04And I don't know when he's going to try again. He does three Iron Mans and then once he's not in those. Made ten kajillion dollars. After he's with those, he's in Spider-Man. He's in everything that they're doing.

56:14Bill Simmons:And the stuff he's doing other than that is basically Sherlock. Yeah. So 2020. It was interesting. Who was the one who pointed out that on Letterboxd this was like three and a half stars or something? Like this is a movie that some people are now against? Tropic Thunder? Tropic Thunder. I don't know. I think it's like not... Were you the one that told me that? I did not. I thought it was like not well liked. I said there's something about Mary has a... Or was it there's something about Mary? Something about Mary has like... It's either five stars or one star. Well, I'm sure, again, we'll probably get to this, but...

56:48Let's get to it now. Well, I just kind of feel like it didn't age quite as well as I thought. I walked away feeling very underwhelmed. But because of the movie, not because of, like, the jokes don't land anymore. Right. You're talking about the character. Well, because, like, again, like, in retrospect, I probably thought, Danny McBride and Nick Nolte probably made me laugh my ass off in 2008. But as I was watching it again, I watched it twice this weekend, I was just like, it felt like there was missed opportunities all over the place. The movie depends so much on Robert Downey Jr.'s performance to be a great movie.

57:24It's heroic. it's a low bearing wall I'll also say I didn't remember this before watching it this time around the third act of this movie feels like they're making it up as they're going along like on the day of they're kind of like yeah let's have a shootout over here and it's like oh you guys kind of almost stopped writing the movie at a certain point I laughed my fucking ass off like I laughed I think when the war broke out I was a saucier in San Antonio

57:58I think that's the fucking scene. Back when the war broke up, ah, call up some greens. I think, I don't know why, like even in the theater, when that was happening, I was like, this is the funniest shit I've ever fucking seen. And then to watch Brandon, look at him like, what the fuck? This motherfucker's crazy. Like that's the funny, I laughed my ass. To your point, you get to a point in the movie almost at the point where they discover he's Simple Jack, where the movie's just almost like unwatchable. You can't even watch it. But all the trailers, that part, everything that led up to there, I thought it was hysterical.

58:35I laughed big-ass titties for no reason. Like, it's funny. The movie's fucking hysterical to me.

58:41Bill Simmons:Yeah, I had that in one stage the worst. The last third of the movie could probably be half as long. Yeah. And it's clearly they're just shooting from the hip in Hawaii and just filming shit and blowing stuff up. Yeah, I mean, I was surprised that it wrapped up as quickly as it did. Like, all of a sudden, I see Tom Cruise just like, you know, he's dancing. He's dancing and I'm just like, oh, wait, this is what, this is how the last five, six minutes of this is going to be. Okay, cool. Stiller directed, wrote the screenplay with Justin Theroux and Etan Cohen. So, Stiller directed Reality Bites, Cable Guy, Thunder, Two Zoolanders, and Walter Mitty, and then a bunch of Severance, right?

59:16He's done Severance and Escape from Dannemora. Yeah. Escape from Dannemora. Great fucking show.

59:22Bill Simmons:Yeah. We fucking love that. Great show. That could have gone longer. Let these guys stay free. Did they just fake that again? So they had an extensive marketing campaign, fake websites, fake stuff for the characters, fictional TV special, sold the energy drink, and then they did a Simple Jack website, and people were like, get this fucking thing down. And that was that. They had multiple movie clips. Even in 2008, people were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And to be real, there were protests then. Yeah. So I hope no one thinks that there weren't. At the premiere. There were protests then.

1:00:02There were protests from the Black community. There were protests from the Shriver family and the Special Olympics. There were protests then. There was talk about the Les Grossman character and whether or not that character was directly anti-Semitic. There were protests then. It's just that the funny one. And that is what happened with the movie. People went to the movie. They're like, it's funny. And the funny one.

1:00:23Bill Simmons:Downey, best supporting actor, Nam. Unfortunately, it was the Heath Ledger Dark Knight year. So let's play this out. How would that have worked if Robert Downey Jr. had won an Oscar for this? Over dead Heath Ledger? That would have been terrible. Just to have fucking gone crazy. Number one, the Heath Ledger performance is like... He was never going to win. I mean, just imagine... If it was a different year, you mean? Every year around the Oscars, there'd be tweets about how there's more people that won Oscars for... Oh, yeah, sorry. I'm new to the... No, no, no. He has a microphone brain blind spot.

1:00:58we were doing it at UCLA the mic is down here and Joel is talking I'm like Joel there's people in the stands it was like what was that SNL sketch with Bill Hader where he's the oh yeah

1:01:09Bill Simmons:he can't put it on her life I was not meant to be on camera in life I was a writer I told him I was like yeah you're a late bloomer superstar so you were gonna say though the Oscar thing oh yeah if he had run if he were around there they'd be like oh a bunch of black people saying there's been more people that have won Oscars for blackface and have actually won. It's not the craziest fucking thing in the world that he got an Oscar nomination for this. Like, if you tell somebody now that he got an Oscar nomination for that, it would blow their minds. I think the Oscar nomination is the thing that people most hold on to when they're talking about the negative legacy of the portrayal.

1:01:46Yes. Is the fact that he got nominated. It hurt the movie almost that he got an Oscar nomination. Yeah.

1:01:50Bill Simmons:You know what else is interesting about it? We talked about this with there's something about Mary. Like, comedies never get nominations. Yes. That's right. and it was just weird that this one it was like all the old white people in the Oscars were like yeah but this goes back to my theory that sometimes the people in the Oscars be fucking with us it's like sometimes they sit together and they watch the help and they go oh yeah we're gonna piss them off I don't even I don't even like the blind side oh we gotta make sure they get one here I would like to think it was trolling but I think it's actually just old guys you know be like the shit was just better back then driving Miss Daisy oh that's when we got one you know what I'm saying so I just think something they fucking with us sometimes man this was weird that it got nominated less for the Downing character but just the comedy getting that it's not like this was a hit but not like a phenomenon yeah it's a pretty hard to me it's like it should have made more sense for Matt Dillon to get nominated for there's something about Mary or something like that so Marisa Tomei and my cousin Vinny who else I'd say it it's not a long list she's great yeah Craig will Google comedy actor actress supporting Oscar I don't think if you're talking last 30 years it's probably 5 or less would you count Raw too well?

1:03:04oh

1:03:04Bill Simmons:no that's kind of like that's a great character I don't think that's a great character but it's not like necessarily like a comedy he has funny scenes but I don't even think that they're being they're very much like rooted in the story of Jerry McCarthy Melissa McCarthy Bridesmaids nomination okay yeah that's one that's one Gosling Barbie Gosling Barbie that's one that's one Jonah Hill Wolf of Wall Street I don't know I'll get that fucking shit out of here wow alright relax yeah yeah that's it made him sad he stopped researching Tootsie Terry Garr Paul Hoffman that was in the 80s yeah we had a couple in the 80s yeah it's pretty weird speaking of Craig this movie was 107 minutes a plus 7 on the Horlbeck scale feels like a plus 14 how dare you I mean there's trailers at the beginning.

1:03:56You know, there's some bonus footage

1:03:57Bill Simmons:that they had to include. The unrated director's cut, which for some reason I own on Voodoo, was like over two hours. Really? Yeah. What's in there? Just extra stuff. As you know, Craig, my rule is always deleted scenes were deleted for a reason. And that's a good example. $90 million budget made$195.7 million. Roger Ebert. Okay. Three and a half stars. Hmm. Considerably better than Stiller's previous film, Zoolander. Huh. What? He didn't like Zoolander. It's the kind of summer comedy that rolls in, makes a lot of people laugh, and rolls on to video. Most rewatchable scene. Let's go. Categories.

1:04:36Bill Simmons:I fucking love the opening so much. I think the first 25 minutes of this movie are A++++. The Access Hollywood segment was just great. It just, I can, I feel like I felt like... You're jumping ahead. Isn't that the first 25 minutes? No. Oh. No, I have the opening. Okay. Oh. Oh, you're talking about just the trailers. The trailers. Just the trailer. Booty Sweat. Booty Sweat. Scorcher 6, Global Meltdown, The Fatty's Fart 2, and Satan Alley. The movie hasn't even started yet. That's right. That's right. And you know, it's probably a very complicated time for Kirk Lazarus because he's also on the trail for Satan's Alley, right?

1:05:11Right. He's got to do a promotion. That's right. Forbidden love in the 12th century. Because he, because Tobey Maguire is nominated. Yeah. Now, does Kirk Lazarus, who is very competitive, did he get nominated? Well, I think after the Tropic Thunder experience, he's realized it's not about competition. It's about competition.

1:05:29Bill Simmons:First big battle scene, Tug gets shot like 47 times. His hands are blown into spiders. Danny McBride comes in hot. Mother Nature just pissed her pantsuit. There's a lot of good stuff in there. I like his hands. And the Jay Baruchel, the intestines kill me. Oh, man. What even is all this? I think I can put it back. Yeah. I think I can put it back. Killed me. The E.T. segment with Nunez. Is this where Danny McBride goes, Tuck, Tuck, and Kim have blue balls? I want to let him squirt it. E.T. segment with Nunez. The disappointing buddy comedy, Chitlin and the Dude. I was going to ask. So what was the premise of this movie?

1:06:10Bill Simmons:Who was Chitlin and who was the dude in this? I think Chitlin was... Martin Lawrence? No, that was Martin Lawrence, yeah. So Chitlin was... Oh, man. And then the Dude was Ben Stower and... Or Tug Speedman in drag? Yeah. The art of parody What would you say, Chitlin? I had so many questions for Chitlin and the Dude. I wanted to know more. The art of parody. Parody just works better than because the name of the movie Chitlin and the Dude, man. It's a buddy cop comedy. It's a movie they would never make but it's a movie they've made. Yeah, they just call it something else. They just call it but it's really Chitlin and the Dude.

1:06:47They call it like money talks.

1:06:49Bill Simmons:What was the Ben Vereen comedy? on TV was like 10 Speed in Brown Shoe. Something like that. That was like an actual show. You can look it up. It's on ABC for multiple years. Simple Jackson, this as well. And then we get to meet McConaughey whose hair is just, I don't know what's going on. It's, it's, it is like a full fledged Afro. Yeah. He looks great, man. Yeah. I don't know if it's a wig or what he's doing. I think that was maybe post a turkey visit, you know, post Harrison. Yeah. We get Les Grossman's entrance. This is your fault, you lamby fuck. One of my favorites. Hey, where's the key grip?

1:07:30Punch him in the face. Because the key grip is going to look the same on every production.

1:07:35Bill Simmons:We get Damien, the director, blowing up. I got to say, this is a guilty pleasure favorite scene for me because I like when he puts the head on the rifle. Oh, yeah. Let's go and make the greatest wall movie ever. Boom. Boom. It's corn syrup, guys. Latex and corn syrup. Then the scene, I don't even know how to title this scene, but the Kirk talking to... Tug and Kirk talk about Simple Jack. Simple Jack. Can we talk about this scene real quick? I'll just lay it out. Okay. Talk about this scene real quick. Okay. So obviously the scene is hugely and ridiculously problematic. Obviously, right? Is it?

1:08:15I'll tell you, it is just because in the world that we want to live in, it is, right? However, the observation in the scene... However, I laughed for three straight minutes. Yes, the observation in the scene was so deadly accurate. And even still, I wonder when I watch it how I never thought of that. Sean Penn blew it. He went too far. The observation in the scene is so deadly accurate that it is a genius, brilliant piece of comedy writing. It is. It is. You can't take it away from people who look at that and go, you don't want that as part of a punchline and all of that stuff like that. I get it.

1:08:56That scene is hysterical and it's just gorgeous writing. It's the most memorable line from the movie. This is the most rewatchable scene for me. It's also basically the sleep with me Quentin Tarantino rant about Top Gun. It's like the most dead-on observation about like, it looks retarded, actually retarded, not retarded. And the fact that, that actually is the peak of Downey's performance to me. He's just so, he is pretending to be an Australian guy, pretending to be a black guy, who is also commenting on the nature of Oscar campaigns.

1:09:34Bill Simmons:Well, also, the way he plays off Stiller, there were times I actually felt like I became retarded in Downey's. like what the fuck he says to be moronical but he's also but also in all of that he's also fucking with him yeah they're in a dick measuring contest for the starring role in this movie so he's saying you're a moron you're like moronical and Ben's going Ben is going yeah like the dumbest motherfucker like the dumbest motherfucker in the whole life he's really and then he gives him a little bit he walks he makes him follow And he just continues to fuck with him the entire time. He does the same thing when he's commenting on his physique.

1:10:16And he's like, any tips? Any tips? Any tips? Because I'm trying to come up, too. I'm telling you, I don't give a fuck what nobody say. He is throwing 117 miles an hour for the entire movie. And it still tickled me to this day.

1:10:32Bill Simmons:A couple more. We get a couple of Les Grossman scenes, including the ransom meeting. Take a big step back. Don't really fuck your own face. Him dancing on Flo Rida Was it good to have Flo Rida back guys? You like him It was fun to review the 08 rap 2007, 8-ish I don't know if I've ever been any place That played Flo Rida, man Oh, interesting Have you? Well, LSU I would go home I was in fucking LA by this time But you go home You go around the campus And they love low around campus A lot of Flo Rida at my high school prom Really? I got to avoid a lot of it. I was 30 years old. I was close to that age too.

1:11:13You go back, you go on campus.

1:11:17Bill Simmons:Forgot to mention Tug getting recognized as Simple Jack. They all mad. They forget the VHS. I think this is a top three for me. The troops all hanging out when Jack Black is tied up. When he says, your mother's a cantankerous whore. oh and Jeff's detoxing and the Lance Brandon T. Rob he's talking about talking about Lance yeah and we get were you thinking of dangling the dice on Lance's forehead I texted that to Craig this weekend do you think they always knew that that was going to be Lance Bass that's a really good question that probably was a late or they shot the Oscars already and they were Oh, good point.

1:12:04And they're like, Lance, it's a funny joke. It'll pay off at the end.

1:12:07Bill Simmons:Downey says, man, everyone's gay once in a while. It's Hollywood. And then Jack Black wants to blow up if he'll untie him. I'll crater the ball, stroke the shaft, work the pipe, swallow the gravy. Get it over here, buddy. Let's do this. Can I do my flex right now? Because it's related to that line. Yeah, let's go. It's the Steven Seagal shitting on himself word for the most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot. Apparently, that line that Jack Black says tied to that tree is this is from an interview with Jack Black. It was an homage to the urban legend about Sylvester Stallone going to his trailer with some lady.

1:12:41They were having sex in his trailer and as the legend goes, he still wore his microphone and the sound guy turned up the volume and everybody outside could hear. And he was saying, stroke the shaft, cradle the balls, say my name, fall the gravy. What? I forgot about that. I think that is a true story. That's crazy. Wow. If I had had that context, it would have been that much funnier.

1:13:06Bill Simmons:Cradle the balls. The shootout. Jack Black with the double cocaine hands kills me. I like when the hands come back. I like this. I have a son now. Half squat. As we said, the last third of this movie is not awesome, but there's a couple fun things in there. And then the Oscars ending with Tropic Blunder and less dancing. So what do you got, Joel? What's your most rewatchable scene? Well, actually, I gave it away already. I felt like the excess Hollywood scene just took me back to... I felt like I am in a hotel room right now. I'm staying in a hotel room because L.A. is not where I live. And it was just like sitting down, putting down your shit and being like, oh, yeah, this is exactly what I would have expected to see.

1:13:45Yeah, it's like sitting in an airport bar. Yeah. On any TV from like 2003 to 2011. Yeah. You know? And it just felt good like that to me. I don't know. And somebody, then he said, you know, I didn't see the, somebody said they were close to me while I'm coming. Y 'all know. I felt like that was the best acting that Ben Stillman had done in the whole thing. Somebody said they were close. Somebody said they were close to him? Yeah.

1:14:06Bill Simmons:What do you got, Van? Kirk and Tug. So I'll see you in San Antonio, man. I'm sorry, guys. Oh, when he's talking about cooking for them? Yeah. He's like, we're going to sit down. And he just, and there's something that happens in that scene. First of all, What did he say? Hustle up some crawfish. So Brandon, so I actually called Brandon about this. And Brandon said that they were losing the light. And now you can actually see it when you see it. They were losing a light. And Ben Stiller told them, just do whatever. Just cook. Like, it was all improv. This movie has a lot of that kind of, like, Ghostbusters feel.

1:14:40When we were talking about Ghostbusters, it was all improv. They were losing a light. Ben was getting cranky. And he's like, you guys just cook. Just do some shit. And so Robert comes off the top of his head with that. He starts going in on it. And Brandon T. Jackson just plays off of him. And the authenticity of it, it plays real to me. because when I'm listening to him be a black man and talk about crawdads and like grab some collard greens and all it's just his it's fucking unbelievably hilarious it's hilarious to me did he say collard up some he says y 'all y 'all in for a treat back before the war broke I was a saucy and said that tone collard up some of these greens it's funny bro This shit is funny.

1:15:26What do you have, Sierra? I'm going to go with Kirk and Tug talking about Simple Jack. That's mine as well. That's the same.

1:15:34Bill Simmons:What's the most 2008 thing about this movie? I got a list. Rick Peck playing Wii Tennis. That's one. Wii's on there. Oh, the Wii, yeah, I got the Wii. Tobey Maguire being credited as an MTV Best Kiss Award winner. That's on there. Less reading Maxim Magazine. Yeah. That's on there. Marie Menounos and Tyra Banks. TiVo. TiVo. The entire conversation about the format wars between HD DVD and Blu-ray. And how porn led the way. How porn led the way. An important Lance Bass cameo. Qualcomm phones. Yep. But the winner is TiVo. And the winner really is TiVo saving everybody at the end. It feels like the most dated fucking thing ever.

1:16:19Bill Simmons:Yeah. Were you a TiVo monthly subscriber or lifetime? I never had TiVo. what? no I didn't really get it until DVR on cable boxes what did y 'all do? I had it I loved it I started fucking with it your provider had the shit on it also sometimes we would literally go to like I would go to a friend's house to watch 24 on TiVo like I got three 24's come on over TiVo really had a moment yeah it was like the most important thing in my house once upon a time yeah what stage is the best a couple things the Spalding official NBA ball is in there oh yeah yeah that's 2008 the original iPod is in there um oh shit you're right the original iPod the first one yeah the first iPod the first iPod is in there they were so good there's also while he's because it's Tug is watching his iPod in the jungle right yeah he pulls out a very specific brand of chapstick that is like only from 2008 that he's about to put on before the pandemic attacks him and one thing about this too last thing I'll say about 2008 everybody in this movie is in the perfect spot in their career to be in this movie.

1:17:27Yes. For like the space that they have. They're all big

1:17:31Bill Simmons:but they're a little dinged up. Yep. Perfect. Still is the only one who's but even he I guess is a tiny bit dinged up. It's not like Cable Guy was like it's a$600 million movie. This is just his project though. So it's not you know he's already kind of had his run right? What's age the best? I have a list but what do you got Joel? I thought the portrayal of Les Grossman. Oh shit. You know what I'm saying? Don't you think of him like, that is our CEO class in this country. Sure. You know what I mean? And like, he put, even though people think that there was some anti-Semitic tropes with that, I didn't read that.

1:18:05I didn't get that out of that. That may be my own ignorance on it or whatever. But I just thought, that kind of executive has defined American culture as much as anyone over the past 20 years. Your response. You disagree. Go ahead. Go ahead, Van. He doesn't give a shit if people die. He doesn't have to treat you nice. He's ridiculous. Like, he'll make you watch him dance. Why are you asking? You should be asking him. What does he say? He's like, and in the appropriate amount of time, we will file an insurance claim. I think that's actually true. It's a performance that, honestly, in 08, you were probably like, huh, and then now it's like, oh, it's completely on the nose for that era of Hollywood exec.

1:18:40For sure.

1:18:41Bill Simmons:What do you have for what's age the best? The whole scene with his exploded hands and the two of them crying on each other and Ben Stiller's still trying to cut the arrogance of those guys and just putting Danny McBride in charge of explosives. Oh, fantastic. YouTube, they mentioned YouTube. YouTube was still kind of... Yeah, it's like two years in. That's age the best. Also, all of these guys are kind of still on top. Yeah. Jack Black's the biggest one out of all of them. Jack Black, Matthew McConaughey, Tom Cruise is back. Ben Stiller has Severance and the Knicks. It's like a lot of these guys, Robert Downey Jr., these guys are like still on top.

1:19:28Let me ask about your boy though. What's Brandon doing right now? He's doing great. Okay. So all the brothers, you know what I mean? You should tell the truth about your friend's experience, man. He's doing great. Brandon's doing great. I talked to him. He's doing great a lot. I love it. He said, watch Deadline. He's doing great. He's had a great career and it's still going on. I don't know why you're picking on him. Just glad Van was able

1:19:46Bill Simmons:to do a name drop. Been a couple episodes for you. I called Brandon earlier. I could drop more. You know the people. You talked about, don't get used to it. You don't do it. If somebody else could do that, you can't do that, too. You got to start just name dropping. Be like, yeah, man, I was texting with Matt Dillon the other day. I just see if he calls you on it. You can't do that. A lot of people can do that, but not you. Look at you doing a LeBron meme. Finger pointing. I have a Vietnam movie parodies. I still enjoy even all these years later, even though they don't really make Vietnam movies anymore, but I still love that whole culture.

1:20:25Bill Simmons:We even did a podcast about them once. Sandusky's theory about porno movies validating video formats. I thought it was honestly kind of brilliant. I was thinking about this the other day, because we were doing a physical media pod on big picture, and we were asked a question about whether or not there will ever be something above 4k. And the first thing that popped into my mind was from this movie. He was like, well, if porn leads the way, then yes. It's going to be 8K, right, Craig? Apparently the human eye can't process more than 4K. Yeah, I barely can process 4K. How about an author lying about a personal experience to sell books?

1:21:00Bill Simmons:Yeah, that's it. That's pretty well. See that, right? James Frey? James Frey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a personal one for me, and it's so stealth, but it fucking kills me. Rick Peck's Loser Son. oh man he has the picture you've got to choose they have the oh man the two picture thing he has in his office and the sun's not even looking at the camera he's just oh but when they on the plane at the end of the movie too I was like oh shit this is so good um I have Peck's remedy for killing a hooker for how to clean it up get your hands on some bleach hydrogen peroxide and a shitload of lime

1:21:46Bill Simmons:I thought it was a great little kid performance by the leader of the Flaming Dragons. That guy's good. He's really good. Yeah, he was excellent. He was like scary. He could do moves. And then I like when Nolte says, let's bag and tag the bastard. You're in a world of hurt. That's funny. Let's bag and tag the bastard. I was like, you're in a world of hurt. That's what CR said about the Celtics after Game 7. It's like, let's back and take the bastard. It's hard to take him. And then... Oh, my God. So, the five actors nominated for Best Actor in a Leading Role were Tug Speedman, Tom Hanks, Sean Penn, Tobey Maguire, and Jon Voight.

1:22:28Bill Simmons:Pretty believable fivesome. Yes. And you have to presume that Sean Penn consented to be included in that group. Yeah. Probably Downing, because he knew Downing from early innings. Okay. the Floyd Gondali butter on my ass and lollipops in my mouth award for something I just enjoy every time somebody says booty sweat man it does shit work for me bro like I mean I was saying you remember there was a time when people would say Rick James bitch or whatever we don't boys just talk about booty sweat you know what I'm saying let me get some of that booty sweat honestly don't see don't don't do that don't do it I saw your face anytime sympathy for the devil is used in a movie I'm just kind of like my spidey senses go off yeah I did a I was gonna wonder I was going to do the hottest take on whether that's the best movie song of all time, but it wasn't less movies than I thought.

1:23:14Bill Simmons:Yeah. I also give you shelter is the big one. Yeah, but more TV shows. I have a I really love well done fake movie trailers in a movie. It's a fucking home run every time. Like I honestly, I feel like we're short. Craig, we're like 50 short career. Fake movie trailers? Just really well done ones. Just like why not just if you're making a comedy, why not just put a fake movie trailer for no reason before the movie starts. in the second season of the studio because the Paul Dano action movie that they did which is really just the opening scene of that movie or the climax of that movie. And they did the one about the, like the, did they ever do the Greta Gerwig?

1:23:50Not, yeah, the Greta Gerwig movie. They did the one where the guys like the Sarah Polly movie. The fartpocalypse. Didn't they do that trailer in the studio with Johnny Knoxville? Oh, that's right. Yeah.

1:23:58Bill Simmons:That's right. I miss those. What do you have, Van? Do you have one? I like walking around the jungle. I was like movies in the jungle army action movies just walking around in the jungle being scared alright we'll take a break and then we'll come back with Joel's first ever flex this episode is brought to you by WeatherTech everyone knows winter is the MVP in making a mess you don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways ketchup goes rogue ice cream drips yeah you'd be pretty happy about those WeatherTech seat protectors.

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1:25:13Bill Simmons:So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. All right, Joel, it's time. Your flex category. First, did you understand the assignment? I did understand the assignment. And actually, I had something for all three. And now I'm going to decide right here based on the center of the conversation. Wow. All right. Because, you know, sometimes... Because either it's like I could have done something more ridiculous, but also I just don't want to see him. You know, this is a very highbrow podcast. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot of intellectual heft here.

1:25:46Bill Simmons:It's not in my house, but we're still doing good. Not at the house, not with the catering and everything.

1:25:52Wow, Bill's sugar fish. Thanks, man. Tell your chef thanks. Maybe the next time. The Needle Drop Run Through the Jungle by Creedence Clearwater Revival that shit is beautiful and I expect to hear it in every Vietnam era movie you're right

1:26:11Bill Simmons:it's probably 80 % of the Vietnam movies feel like they have to do it why wasn't there more classic rock songs about jungles I mean I just in general I think Creedence has that vibe so like Suzy Q's in Apocalypse Now I'm sure there's one Are they the number one Vietnam movie band? They have to. They have to, right? Yeah. You hear the music. Fortunate Son is huge. Fortunate Son is huge. Bad Moon Rising. Yeah. And then there's a lot of Motown, What's the most used song in a Vietnam movie? Probably anything from Creedence, Colorado Revival. I think it's Fortunate Son is the most stereotypical song.

1:26:44Allegedly, they say that song is about gun violence, though. Which is crazy because this is from, like, 1969. Yeah. I was like, it really wasn't about Vietnam, huh? Okay, sure. Whatever you say. But, yeah, that was my shit. I mean, I actually downloaded that. So I could listen to it.

1:26:58Bill Simmons:Oh, man. Great Jack Gordo Award. Tug running in front of the bridge as it blows up, or would you do something else? I had the Great Jack Gordo slash the Sean Fennessy Award for Stealth Homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm as the reenactment of the Willem Dafoe death in Platoon. Were you to do Platoon? It's on the list. Fuck that movie. Chess Rockwell. Brock Lander's Award for Best Character Name. It's gotta be Al Pochino. Al Pochino. Kirk Lazarus is good, too. My silver medal is actually Hater's character is named Rob Slalom. I don't know if he ever actually say it out loud. But it's so weird to watch Hater because you keep waiting for him to completely break out in this movie and he's just like kind of keeping it.

1:27:43Now if you count Lincoln Osiris is the name. Yes. That's a good one.

1:27:48Bill Simmons:Link. Yeah. The Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness. Joel talked about the needle drop. There's a couple of really good ones there but it's it's gotta go to Credence for what it's worth is also another big Vietnam movie yeah what do you got for your flex I have Billy Batts Jack Woltz award for the most biting and scalable insult for first first of all take a big step back and literally fuck your own face that's a great one uh Butch's girlfriend award weak link of the film this is a really this is a a good one here I think this is interesting mine is we already discussed it I thought the last third could have been seven eight minutes tighter and we just could have gotten out of there.

1:28:26Bill Simmons:Even halfway through, I was like, man, this is kind of going on. Yeah. You know? I wanted more, like, there's a deleted scene before they send the five into the jungle again where they're at some party at the set and they're talking to Al Pochino. Baruchel meets him. I just wanted, like, two more scenes with that. Like, the guys hanging out before it got weird and less at the back end would be my note. I have Jack Black. Wow You thought he just showed up and collected a check, huh? No, I think that the Jack Black stuff is funny at times, but I do think that beyond the scene of, there are two scenes that really work.

1:29:10Other than that he's kind of just whacked out in the movie and pulling it away from the funniest parts, which is like Kirk and Tug and Al Pacino and some of the other stuff. I had Jack Black and it's rare. Jack Black is normally a plus player in every movie he's in but in this one I had him as the weak link. I have Steve Coogan is much funnier in Reigns of Madness than he is in Tropic Thunder. Yeah. And I feel like they kind of hemmed him in a little bit. I'm Ben Stiller, man. I was just I'm Ben Stiller? Wow. Yeah, man. I'm sorry. I just again, I felt like I was like, oh, I've seen this Ben Stiller before over and over again.

1:29:51I didn't think he had that much work to do. I felt like he got to be himself. And, you know, I mean, I didn't mean that he was bad. And I didn't think, I didn't think, I think performances were probably some of the best parts of the movie to me. And of that bunch, I thought I would have said Jack Black, but I couldn't say Jack Black because you already said Jack Black. So I had Ben Stiller, like right above that. I get what y 'all saying. I think we were talking about this a little bit earlier. Like Ben Stiller has really good taste. And usually the movies he's involved in are really good and funny.

1:30:19But he's not always like the single best part of the movie as just particularly an actor. But there's something that he can do that is very useful in a movie like this, is he can be a funny straight man. Yes, and he's making fun of himself. He's making fun of himself, and his performances are nuanced enough to where he can be the straight man to a lot of other stuff that is crazy and happening at the same time in the movie. Yeah. But he can also actually have you laugh at him. I enjoy him more as a character actor. Like I think him and happy Gilmore or even Zoolander is funnier than when he's just doing like the meet the parents thing.

1:30:57Bill Simmons:Yeah. The Steven Seagal shitting on himself award for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot, which Craig already did. I have another one. This is Bill Hader. This is a story he had. Tom Cruise didn't know who I was and was trying to figure it out. I said, Seth Rogen's a friend of mine. He said he went to your house. I did a Seth Rogen impersonation for two seconds. Like Tom Cruise is amazing. We rode motorcycles in his backyard. And it was like, I did a magic trick. Tom Cruise started clapping and going crazy. And he went, you do impressions and you're on Saturday Night Live. Meaning I was briefed and I know now who you are.

1:31:32Bill Simmons:I just would have loved to have been in the room for this. Yeah. But can you imagine Cruise doing the over-exaggerated, you're so funny. You're the SNL guy. Oh, I get it. Yeah, and it's kind of like the politician who's just like, this is the treasury secretary and that's his daughter and now his wife. He's been on SNL for two years. what's age the worst well we covered a lot of the what's age the worst already um including the the website for simple jack all the other things that happen any other what's age the worst that we have uh I would probably say it's just a I would say the action in this movie is each the worst I would say that comedy is not the only thing that matters now anymore your movie is not just about whether or not it's funny this is like really one of the last movies that was like, okay, it's going to take all of these chances, these gigantic swings, and if it's funny, it's going to work.

1:32:26Your shit can't just be funny now. There has to be more than that. You have to consider a lot of things before you put script to screen and then put it out, or else people are going to not fuck with it. They're going to summarize it before it even gets to the theaters. Unless you're a stand-up. If you're a stand-up, it can still work, but even as a stand-up, though, you have this almost sectioned-off group of people who just came to see you, the movies I think people react differently to them because they I don't know why people still feel like that every movie is supposed to be for everyone they don't feel like that way about stand-ups it's almost like if you go to see Louis C.K.

1:33:00at this point you know what you signed up for but when a movie comes out a lot of times people are offended because they feel like if it's in the theater I'm supposed to be able to watch it yeah and I think also it's just like you've been selling me this movie for such a long time and it either is or isn't what I expected it to be for a movie to get made like a hundred people have to sign off on it Louis it's kind of just him

1:33:23Bill Simmons:any what's age the worst do you have any what's age the worst for us or did we cover everything oh no I was going to say I thought the comedy just fell flat just totally it wasn't as funny as I remember a rare case of Joel Trappathender I don't like this movie he came on this podcast no he did the work though yeah I did I just you know again I watched it again I think I definitely remember thinking it was funnier in 2008. Can we actually, because this is Joel's first time on the podcast, can we get a barometer of what would be a funny movie to you? Exactly. Oh. My favorite movie is Coming to America on Friday.

1:34:00Funny. Oh, you know what else I love? I always talk about Welcome Home, Roscoe Jenkins because nobody fucks me. I don't know if you're going to fuck with it. Yeah. Okay. You ever see that one? You ever seen Welcome Home, Roscoe Jenkins? 2000s? Something like that. Yeah, I think it's the early 2000s. He goes back to his family reunion. in Shreveport. They filmed in Shreveport. Yeah, it's 2008. See, 2008? I like stuff. I believe you do. I like the laugh. But I didn't know if you were going to be like, to me, Rushmore is funny. You know? Yeah. I mean, I like a lot of the, what's the job, like the Best in Show?

1:34:33Yeah. Like that kind of stuff. The Christopher Guest stuff, yeah. Christopher Guest movies. Yeah, I love that stuff. You know? This one just, and look, I like Anchorman. Like Anchorman's funny. Step Brothers. I could, if you put Step Brothers on right now, I will not get up. We got the idea. okay you know we

1:34:46Bill Simmons:I'm just fast forwarding to all the people who are like why'd you have the guy that's like Tropic Thunder on the rewatchable but you know we had this conversation with something about Mary about its legacy this is a complicated movie I'm glad we're having conversations its legacy beyond just like whether it was funny or not right and you just mentioned two movies that I feel like have a way bigger like sort of mind share of like the current movie going public Anchorman and Step Brothers are way bigger than Tropic Thunder I also think they're better movies I think they have a much longer tail. Don't you think so?

1:35:17But I'll also say there's a reason why. Because those movies edit for television better.

1:35:23Bill Simmons:There's another reason. My kids didn't like Tropic Thunder Drive Shock by. I get it. It's an edgier movie. It's a satire of like 19... They were just out. But they fucking love Anchorman and Step Brothers. Yeah, those movies are more... I mean, there's some... But those movies edit for television better. Those are more accessible films. Outside of Downey, did you think... I mean, I'm not... People are going to get mad at me, but that's fine. Did you think it, outside of Downey, did it seem like smart funny to you, though? Like, you were just like, oh, wow, that was some really complicated humor.

1:35:51You really thought... I thought that the conceit of the first, like, hour of the movie, and especially, like, the trailers, the Maria Menounos section, Peck and Grossman, like, all that first bit run through the Hollywood stuff is pretty... She's funny. At the end of it, she goes, something like that.

1:36:10Bill Simmons:She's funny. Like, all of that stuff leading up to it, to me is really, really high-level satire going on. Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting word. Jack Black. I had Jack Black. Van's choice for a flex. Okay. A list. Five movies not getting greenlit in 2026. Number five, our namesake movie, The Ringer. Have you ever seen this? Yeah, that was problematic when it happened. That's Johnny Knoxville, right? That's Johnny Knoxville. We had a big debate about whether we named The Ringer the Ringer wondering if The Ringer, the movie, would overshadow us with Google. And guess what? It did not.

1:36:43I almost cost you so much money by calling the website Chase the Night. Yeah.

1:36:48Bill Simmons:Almost there. Chase the Night. We tried for two years, Chris. I gotta pull the plug. Yeah, seriously. These are five movies we're not making. Number four, Tropic Thunder. I don't know if with all the stuff like that, the movie intact, the way it is, gets greenlit today. I don't know if they make it. Number three, Joanna Man. We, oh man. Not gonna happen. You're not in this day and age gonna have a movie where a guy goes and dominates the W-EBA because he's a guy. We're having too many conversations. The W is coming too far. It's not going to happen. That's right. Number two, I think, could easily be number one.

1:37:23It's an easy one. The birth of a nation. Like the new birth of a nation. Bro, I know. The second one. The 1915 birth of a nation? Yeah, we're not doing that right now. I think that would have been the case. They played it in the White House. People were happy to go see it. Alright, so I gotta say right now That's because they were like, I can't believe a train is moving, right? That is partly true It's also because they was fucking with that shit I mean, they might I mean, they might have that shit in the ball I mean, that would go over well over there right now There might be a 4K or two sitting around in the White House now Number one Despite the fact that we have tried on this podcast to change the legacy of this movie there's no way Soul Man happens in 2026 Soul Man is an impossible movie Lack of availability is probably a testament.

1:38:10So Soulman is number one.

1:38:12Bill Simmons:I think Soulman would cause a riot. Who's going to be rioting? Just everybody. I think all people riot. Do you think it would? Because actually, I mean, ultimately, the guy finds out that racism is a real thing. Do you think because of that, the people are like, what? We can't get to that point. Stop thinking about race. I'm trying to say that we can't get to that point. At the end of Soulman, Soulman rounds out with him discovering just how terrible it is. but see Thomas Howell the entire movie has it's just not gonna happen I would like to throw in the crying game into this talk interesting I think people would fucking lose their minds now they would have intentionally spoiled the secret I think that movie gets submarined and annihilated it's actually a good one yeah people would have been really mad at that movie I'm trying to imagine like just on twists alone I mean I know why you're saying crying game but I wonder whether or not if you tried to pitch Fight Club now would they just be like yeah but we're not gonna be able to keep it a secret like there's just too many people writing about movies there's too many people who see movies too early and they'll be like make sure you stick around for the last 20 minutes of this really tough have we lost would Fight Club not work today?

1:39:21Bill Simmons:the ability to keep a secret we've lost Blair Witch is dead, no way doesn't work Fight Club completely does not work in any way as a movie or as an experience I remember when my homies was first putting me on Fight Club because I didn't see it in theaters they were happy to like Not spoil it. They would tell you everything. I can't tell you what's going on. I don't know if that would exist now. It would be all over. Kind of like what they did with the drama almost. American History X? They could still make that one. I think that one could still get made. Does CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford?

1:39:54Bill Simmons:How does take a word? What do you have, CR? This movie did to Platoon what Walk Hard did to music biographies. I tried watching Platoon this weekend. and I need a little bit more distance from Tropic Thunder to like watch Keith David like we're going home brother you know like it's just too close and all the shots that they had like there's so many one for one shots from like platoon in Tropic Thunder so I think it kind of deflated the ball a little bit my hottest take is this is legitimately the only time I have purely and sincerely not even a half of percent at all been offended by black guys.

1:40:39This looks bad. I'm just like, guys, I know that this looks bad. I just, I want to, I want to have been offended by that in this movie more. I want to be, I interrogate myself, but as many times as I've watched it, as many times as I've seen it, I just have never even a little bit been offended by the usage of it in this. There's no blackface. If you do it, I'm going to get on your motherfucking ass. Stop with the goddamn Halloween costumes. It's not a tribute to Beyonce. I can't, like, all of that stuff. But in this movie, for whatever reason, it's just never offended me. Oh, that's some real shit.

1:41:19I actually agree with him. It does not... It had to be as good as it was for it to meet that bar. And I'm just going to say, like, all right, I'm going to give Lincoln Osiris a chance. It's also like, If he had been doing anything that was contemporary, if he tried to kick hip-hop language in it or anything like that, it would have just blown up in his face. So when he did the Saucy and San Antonio thing, that's why they had Brandon's character go right back. Because it's like, okay, you're leaning into the shit. You're doing a little too much right now. This is too many times in between takes.

1:41:53But that was the joke all the time. The joke was, what do you mean, you people? Like, they continuously remind you over and over and over again that the absurdity of this is that people take roles like this. The absurdity is that this is not so far out of the realm of what has happened or what did happen. So, I don't know. I just got it. What do you have? That was it. I mean, I actually, I'm not offended by the blackface at all. And again, I thought— You don't have a hottest take? That performance was— That's not your hottest take. What's that? Do you have a hottest take? That's the hottest take Yes Oh you both had the You separately came to the same hottest take I was not offended by the black face at all Because I think This is my first time in front of The Watchables audience right And I know there's a lot of people on Reddit or whatever That's like oh that guy's a jokester Let's go But anyway I can laugh It's shit like that You know what I mean I think that's fine Oh they're gonna love you If you're gonna be racist Like at least be funny with your shit dog And like I felt like Yeah Like be come come correct I mean I'm not even gonna talk about Some of the shit I like on Twitter sometimes I'm just like, oh man, you know, sometimes Nick Fuentes says some shit.

1:43:03I'm like, I don't fuck with you. I don't like you. We would never be cool. But I was like, that was kind of funny though, dog. Do you want me to try and get out of this? We can move on. Let's do it. Let's do it. How would Van get out of this one right now? Should we do it like a top 10 blackface? You don't think Nick Fuentes is funny? Get the fuck out of my face with that. You said it. Shut up, dog. I never wish we were live on Netflix before.

1:43:33Bill Simmons:I'm going to try to follow that one. My hottest take, I think you could switch four actors to parts of this and it's a better movie. Oh. I think you could switch McConaughey and Stiller and I think you could switch Jack Black and Bill Hader and I think the movie's better. So Stiller went in that Tom Cruise. So Stiller's the agent. Yeah, and the Tom Cruise oral history. still was going to play the agent. And I think McConaughey as the lead I think would have been really fun. Because my issue with this is it feels very Zoolander-y, the character. It feels like a Stiller character I've seen before.

1:44:08Bill Simmons:He's just like more jacked. Whereas McConaughey, I would have been interested. But I think Hater and the Jack Black part when it was like, we hadn't really had Hater yet. We'd had Jack Black around for like 12 years at that point. I think Hater just would have added some improv stuff. I just think it would have been better. If you switch McConaughey out of Peck, though, you don't get rum-tum-tugger nuts. It's Pecker. What do you think? Did I break your brain with that, Craig? McConaughey as Tug, I think, really works. Hater, the physicality that Jack Black brings, I do think, like, adds some sparkle to the movie when it's just them walking through the jungle for, like, an hour.

1:44:45Jack Black does kind of bring that Farley energy that I do think kind of you need.

1:44:51Bill Simmons:Casting what-ifs. Stiller wanted Keanu as Tug didn't happen really he was gonna play Rick Peck and Keanu was gonna be Tug Keanu as Tug is I don't know I don't know if that one would've worked it's really Keanu might be one of the hardest actors to like assign roles to like this like it's like you talk about like Robert Downey Jr. spending 15 years playing Iron Man like I feel like Keanu's been John Wick for like 15 years I think it was like 2014 or 13 or something like that he's getting close yeah he's in that Aziz movie as an angel or whatever and I was and he's in the Jonah Hill movie yeah is he one of those guys that when cast it perfectly is perfect Utah uh Speed John Wick Shane Falco Shane Falco Shane Falco works and even in Parenthood perfectly cast it hardball guy smoking gambling little league coach uh Kevin Hart turned down Al Pochino did he want to play a gay character yeah that's right some tough research on this one he admitted though I mean he said it's like my own insecurity along those lines but still it's just kind of grow up and then Most Def turned it down because he wanted he wanted to change a character to an R &B musician he didn't want to make fun of rap really so I ended up with Van's guy who Van talked to today but did you get the sense that he was a rap star like I don't know I felt like that was the one thing that was kind of missing like I didn't get I felt like he was more like Nick Cannon or something yeah It almost felt like he was a rap star five years ago who had now become...

1:46:23Bill Simmons:Nick Cannon's a rap star. This was sad. So, Cruise vacated Rick Peck. Owen Wilson gets cast. And then Owen Wilson had that meltdown in 07. Suicide attempt, sadly. Dropped out. Matthew McConaughey comes in. So, McConaughey was the third choice. Which is kind of where he was in his career. Yeah. Best that guy award? I don't know. I have Yvette Nicole Brown as Peck's assistant who goes on to become a community I think Yvette Nicole Yvette Nicole Brown is Yvette Nicole Brown no? now she is it's like I'm using a more of a like oh like the background player and then it's like she's like got one shot where she's like it's like hang up the phone oh I see at that time yeah yeah yeah cause like she's she's like a cultural mainstay you know what's funny is Danny McBride when they made this movie was that kind of like a yeah kinda yeah and then Eastbound made him Danny McBride St.

1:47:15Bill Simmons:Christopher Walken was kind of like I was just like oh yeah I just love seeing him. Christopher Walken as that guy. Interesting. Recasting couch. I did mine in my hottest take. Did you have any? Not really. Okay. Craig did his flex. We're moving to half-assed internet research. Did you do Dion? I didn't do Dion. I didn't do Dion. Jesus. Well, it's Cruise. It's kind of Tom Cruise. Tom Cruise, right? Yeah. Are you test driving the bride? I had something for possibly unanswerable questions, but I'll bring it up for Dion. Now, it's not necessarily that Les is in this movie too much for Dion, which is like a sliding kind of barometer sometimes.

1:47:52What would happen if there was just one less Grossman scene? Does it become like one of the great one-scene cameos of all time? You don't love Grossman. There's a little bit of you. I think Grossman is incredible on the Fuck Your Own Face one. You have to get a binding resolution. I think it's three scenes, not four. It almost feels like midway through, they're like, man, this is incredible. We gotta do another Grossman scene. I think that it was probably Cruz's commitment to it Tom's having a lot of fun How much juice can we get out of this? It should have been Alec Baldwin and Glenn Gary It should have just been like I'm speechless after that one scene Maybe that should have been my highest take

1:48:30Bill Simmons:Fuck you That would have been a good one I mean you could say he just could have been The one scene and then the end But then we don't get him negotiating with the That scene's great When he goes lots of money I thought the third scene was really good The scene at the very end like that was probably a little bit too much and then he's dancing through the credits but how do you guys feel about the dance through the credits it was kind of see like as a 14 year old I love that shit I like shit like that for credits yeah Half-Assed they filmed in Hawaii and Kauai it's the first movie in Kauai in five years this is the beginning of people being like you know it's cool living in Hawaii for a long time this is when Adam Sandler really figured it out it's like family friend vacation Hawaii tropical location let's make a movie he got married down there too So I bet that was just like...

1:49:17Bill Simmons:Yeah. Donald Glover, big kawaii guy. Yeah? Yeah. We mentioned most of this stuff except Stiller, Downey, and Black appeared on the seventh season finale of American Idol as the Pips performing with Gladys Knight. And they just, before the movie came out, they promoted the shit out of this movie. They went everywhere. They popped on every show. They did American Idol shit. Vans got Rick Baker designed and created the Downey makeup. Yeah. Rick Baker. The other guy. Did he do the fatties as well? He probably did everything. I wonder if he did the hands. He probably did the hands as well. Who was like the second best Rick Baker?

1:49:54Yeah. If it's not him, who is the who? If you can't get Rick Baker, who would you go with? Who was the other guy who was almost as good as John Williams?

1:50:01Bill Simmons:Is it about Hans Zimmer? No. No. Jerry Goldsmith. Jerry Goldsmith. I mean, there's a couple guys in that. Like, if you, depending on, like, but if you can't get Rick Baker, who's the second Rick Baker? I don't know. It feels like Rick Baker just annihilated everybody. I think it's Stan Winston. Oh, Stan Winston's. Stan Winston's way up there. CR mentioned the mockumentary, Reign of Madness. Downy, one and a half to two hours of makeup. And then, did you see the thing about how they wanted Nolte's character to be revealed, like Quentin Jaws, and they decided it was too many homages? and then Hater said he went in to audition for Tropic Thunder.

1:50:46Bill Simmons:Is Stan Winston black? He kind of got a shell silver. He got a little situation happening. Are we tripping about this? Stan Winston? No, I don't think it's like he kind of like maybe he's just a little red here. Go back to the last one. Are we missing out on the great year? Are we not? Look at that. I don't know. I don't think so because I think I would have known. It's funny because when you said Stan Winston, I was like, Stan Winston's a black ass name. He's a black man. If you look at him right there, go to some more images. Okay, hold on, dog. I don't know, bro. Look at that. That's a black man, bro.

1:51:25I'm going to claim him, though. Alright, cool. Stan Winston. Shel Silverstein, man. I don't think that he is, but I don't know, dog. Not nothing. We lost him. We lost. We had him. We lost.

1:51:41Bill Simmons:You had him for my time. That's how you all understand. Maybe it depends on that. Some people are light skin that shows up a little bit more. Hater, the last one is Hater went to audition for Tropic Thunder and saw a possible cruise playing Les Grossman and then all of a sudden was like, this is the most important edition of my life. I've got to know this. And was really nervous. Apex Mountain. Ben Stiller, no. Downey were in the ballpark. This is Iron Man same year. I think this is it, right? Unless you were to say it was the in-game time because he's the biggest star. I think so. Vietnam War parodies, would you go, what was the Charlie Sheen one?

1:52:25Bill Simmons:Hot Shots. Yeah, Hot Shots. No, I would say this. We're done with Vietnam now, right? Yeah. I wonder if it'll ever come back like World War II. Like World War II is such an unambiguous, like it's us versus evil, but people People crave, like, war stories. They do. They crave the Band of Brothers experience. Cruz, no. Jack Black, no. Brandon T?

1:52:52Not Unifor. How do you want to call him?

1:52:55Bill Simmons:You should ask him when you're on the phone with him or there. I'll call him right now. Do it. I'll call him right now. Blind call to Brandon. It's kind of an awkward call. If you don't call him, I'll call Sasha Gray. Was this traffic thunder or apex? Yeah, it kind of is. But he was in a lot of big movies. Blind called Sasha Gray. Yeah, if you don't call anybody. Did we get the Traffic Thunder prepared together? Jay Baruchel? What was his big breakout joint? What was the name of the movie? He's the lead of Undeclared, right? I think this was the biggest thing he's been in. I mean, he's good in This Is The End, too.

1:53:32He's good in This Is The End. I'm trying to look. A Million Dollar Baby, Him Is Danger, I remember that. His fucking shit is How to Train Your Dragon. How to Train Your Dragon. That dude's caking. He's the man. So he's the lead in How to Train Your Dragon, is he not? I mean, yeah.

1:53:46Bill Simmons:I saw a decade. I was surprised he wanted to move back to Canada, and this is the end. Apparently, that was based on real life, right? That whole relationship between all of them? McConaughey, no. Hater, no. Politically incorrect, but got away with it somehow. Comedies. Probably still Blazing Saddles. Yeah. That was like the biggest comedy. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. But yeah. I mean, 48 hours. But so, but you know, like think about it. All of these movies and every single one of them, like Ringer of Nerds, Animal House, all of them, they're all insanely politically incorrect. Yeah. I didn't have them on the list because the premises aren't, you know, but like, I don't know.

1:54:27I guess so.

1:54:29Bill Simmons:Cruise or Hanks? A rare, Cruise, by the way, is 18-3 watchables. Just extending his lead. He's four above the next guy. I love it, man. How many Cruise movies have we not done? There's a few. Okay. We might be able to get to 25. What are the ones? The Lab. We never did all the right moves. I'm actually a big Valkyrie guy. I love it. I don't understand. I never understood the hate. Maybe, I think people would just, there are a couple of movies in there that people just didn't like him anymore. Like, Valkyrie's one of them. Obviously, Edge of Tomorrow is one of them. I think there are some movies that would have flown when he was on top.

1:55:02Like, I think Oblivion would have flown. I think there's a couple movies in there that people were just like, Vanilla Scar.

1:55:07Bill Simmons:What did you think of Vanilla Scar? I mean, it's a good movie. I think Reacher is the number one for me with this. People were just done with him. We're just done with him. If the movie was cool, we're just not fucking with Tom Cruise. It was also like, the whole idea was he was supposed to be 6 '5". They didn't like that either. Scorsese or Spielberg? Spielberg. Spielberg? I think so. I would say Scorsese. I want to hear what you guys said. I really could not think of him. I just, I guess there's... All the heroin in the last 30 minutes? I think it would be a darker movie. What's the funniest Scorsese's ever been?

1:55:39Oh, man. Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, Wolf. That's good. That's very funny. Good fellas. Hey, look! I found a wing!

1:55:47Bill Simmons:You want the breast of the wing? Huh? Pick a nits. So, Steve Coogan, the director, his plan was to... He filmed a whole bunch of stuff and then got rid of everything he filmed. Yeah, this is the biggest nitpick. He's going to put cameras in the jungle and this is gonna work? Those are like high eight like camcorders. And he's and we're just this is what we're gonna do with five time Oscar It's gonna look like 28 days later. What was this? What was his plan? Well also can I just I'm confused because four leaf at the beginning I say so there were ten people in this unit four people wrote books three get unpublished two get and two get movies out of that right?

1:56:25Yeah. Didn't nobody know he was a fraud before then? Right. I mean it didn't say there's people that died so nobody was like hey man you weren't there what the fuck you talking about?

1:56:36Bill Simmons:Figured that would happen. It probably would have happened but there was a little bit of a, it's like, I think people got away with a lot back then. I had, I don't know why Tug kills a panda. I don't understand that scene at all. That was weird. Oh, because I think he's just scared that he's getting attacked by like a wild port. Why is there a panda in Vietnam? But he loves pandas, right? And that's like the thing he loves, you know, he took the... What's a panda in there? That's probably not even a real name. Well, I know that pandas aren't in Vietnam but also, like, are they violent? I don't know.

1:57:03I don't know.

1:57:04Bill Simmons:I didn't understand anything about that. Why didn't the first gorillas just kill Tug? Why'd they capture him? Wouldn't you just shoot him? To ransom him. They didn't know that he was ransomable. They assumed he was DEA, right? Yeah. Probably once he knew. And then nobody, none of these guys die. They get shot at for two hours. Yeah. Nobody die. And they're all shooting blanks. Yeah. The only people that die were a bat, that panda, and, you know. That bat. This entire movie is a knit. Like, the plot is just like, the whole movie is a knit. By the time they're walking through the jungle, like, they're fake shooting the movie, it doesn't make any fucking sense.

1:57:42Bill Simmons:Also, Downey's keeping that makeup on just for five straight weeks in the jungle. Well, it's pigmentation surgery. Yeah, surgery. But he has the other stuff that he pulls off. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, all that stuff. Can you explain, like, because I... Are his eyes blue like that naturally? No, he's Australian. When he's in Satan's Alley, those eyes are fake. Those are contacts. And then his eyes are dark usually. Okay. Yeah. The only nitpick I have is just Kirk Wiser is having more Oscars than Hepburn and Daniel Day-Lewis. Yeah, three would have probably done the job. Maybe that was the joke. You have any nitpicks?

1:58:17Bill Simmons:Nah. Craig, you have any nitpicks? Don't you think Four Leaf should have died? I thought they were leading up to him sacrificing himself to be like, I'll die on the battlefield now. And they just keep him alive which kind of just made no sense. Which is probably why like the third act feels a little bit like I just do not understand what he is because there's just no yeah there's no consequences to it I think they're probably rushing through the last half hour of this sequel prequel prestige to be all black cast or untouchable um Prestige TV is mildly interesting to me. It would have to be untouchable because I don't know if we can touch it.

1:58:56Bill Simmons:It's untouchable the same way plutonium is untouchable. I don't know. I mean, that's where Scorcher 7 comes in for me. It's just like he's moving on. Yeah. You know, this is the next project. He's won his Oscar. So what do we do with Scorcher 7 after Global Meltdown? Man. Maybe it's like a... I would do Scorcher 7, They Go to Another Planet. Oh, yeah. Scorcher 7, like Interstellar. I think that was Scorcher 3, though. Is that... They Go to Another Planet. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Fergie the Flores, Zane Lowe, Robert Evans, Dr. Charles Nichols, or someone else? I like the ideas if Posse Waite played Grossman.

1:59:42you're gonna have to call the fucking united nations and get a fucking binding resolution to keep me from fucking destroying you i'm talking scorched earth motherfucker i will massacre you i will fuck you up the chemical way and then he hangs up and goes find out who that was

2:00:03Bill Simmons:i had um i think nell should have been in this there was some simple jack for around where it could have been like Nell 2 when they're talking about possible Academy Awards and we could have gotten Nell in the front. Maybe it could have been a rom-com like they're another movie, Joel? Nell? With Jodie Foster going nuts. Jodie Foster in the woods? Jodie Foster plays a woman who was like raised in the wild. No, bro. Nell made Nell made$106 million? Yeah, we used to really cook. We're gonna have to do it on the pod. What the fuck? Are you fucking kidding? It's not regarding Henry or the drama that's now a comedy.

2:00:41That can't be right.

2:00:42Bill Simmons:That was another one that paved the way for Simple Jack, by the way. Damn. That was just be in the forest and be crazy. Hold on. Nell made$33 million domestic. For some reason, the world was fucking with Nell like crazy. It's huge in Far East Asia. And France loves Jodie Foster. So, when I was in the newspaper, the person did a story on this woman who was raised by wolves. Like, she was like, and it became a big story. Did they do a movie on that? Did they ever do a movie? That sounds like something that should have been kind of a movie. I mean, Nell is just like they find her in like the caves.

2:01:13Yeah, right? Yeah. She was raised by somebody that wasn't even in there. I haven't been fired Nell up in a while.

2:01:18Bill Simmons:We'll crank it up. Yeah. Probably in answerable questions. Why do you think Cruz didn't do more Dan Waiters type three-day roles? I always wonder about this with some of the most famous. Like, would it have killed Leo to have done this like twice? You know? Or Denzel. All the biggest stars we have. It's just a huge win if they pick the right movie and they just fly into it. But if they pick the wrong movie. Yeah, but isn't it just... Is that what it is? It's just a fear of... Yeah. But I mean, also, I mean, these are people that really do take that craft very seriously, too. Like, it's just not fucking around.

2:01:49So, maybe that... It could... I wonder if it's just as simple as that. They were asking DiCaprio to be in Cliff Booth and he was like, no, not for like a day. No. You think Michael Jordan just playing in a pro-am? Yeah, so he used to. Well, he did back in the day. That's right, that's true. But I just think you have to be at the right point in your career and like these guys are chasing each other in terms of prestige and a miscalculation kind of looks bad. I always like to see it.

2:02:13Bill Simmons:So like Chalamet right now just popping in a movie for two days that ends up being hit. Brad Pitt will do it. Matt Damon will do it. Matt Damon loves to do it. Matt Damon loves to do it. He's in EuroTrip for reasons that remain unclear. With a shaved head. Here's the deal though. He shows up in some of the Marvel stuff. is funny, but when you're in, when you're watching your own trip, and he's up there, to me, he looks so cool. Yeah. Just, like, popping into that movie and doing that, he looks so cool. But there's a difference between, like, what he does in that and what he does in Interstellar.

2:02:45You know what I mean? Like, there's, like, a supporting role, and then there's, like, a ten-minute, like, cameo. Yeah, the Interstellar thing is actually, like, a really super important part of a very serious movie, so. What do you got for an answer, bro? Oh, for me? Oh, uh, I would just like to know why Brandon Jackson was the guy. I'm sorry. No offense to your guy. Like, what happened to his career after this? Yeah, I'm just like, what? I mean, why didn't... I mean, we were just talking about all these guys have gone on. They had, like, another thing. And, like, what? Again, I think that is the problem of the black actor in Hollywood.

2:03:16Not your boy. That's what I'm saying. It's like, you know, because oftentimes these roles, even if you get nominated for something, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to go on. You know? So, like, Lupita. You know what I'm saying? Like, it didn't... It has not made her a huge star. Lupita is having a fucking fantastic career. Are you nuts? Do you think of her as like a top bill star? Lupita is having a great career. Okay, no, I'm not saying she's not having a great career. You can have a great career and not be like a top billing type actress. Right, right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

2:03:48It's going to be like the roles are just not going to come to her like they do some other people. And I'm sure she would say that if you asked her. Okay, look, I don't know. Like, all I'm saying is... Well, you probably do know her calling. That's your homegirl calling. My own answer, Bill, would be if you were making Tropic Thunder today, what would you be lampooning? And I guess it would be comic book movies. It's not really unanswerable because I answered it to myself. Yeah, like MCU type of something. If I was doing it, I would lampoon the high auteur movie. The MCU is going to go further, but I think now the film that's directly...

2:04:24Like an A24 movie? Yeah, kind of the A24 film bro type of movie that everybody has to love.

2:04:32Bill Simmons:I mean honestly the funniest thing would be to do Like a The smart list guys Like a movie about Some sort of big gigantic podcast Or call it daddy That would be cinematic You just dive into that whole world With the celebrities that come in But you're really making fun of a couple different Things of that world People trying to make the guests cry And the dates all that stuff Although Charlize talking about how she didn't want to be married and just had sex with a 26-year-old and it was great. I thought that was some of the best podcast content of the year. Didn't you have Charlize on your show?

2:05:09Bill Simmons:I sure did. We never talked about her having sex with the younger men. That never came up. It was in a different phase of her life. Yeah. She came in the office. It was the most flustered I've ever met. You batted the baby blues at her? Yeah. She just sat down, put her arm in. She was just ready to roll. She was so cool. She plays big back game in person. That's the thing I learned. I thought I played Bat Game and I saw that about her. Yeah, you would learn for Charlize, I bet. Oh, yeah, probably. Two Days in the Valley? Piece of memorabilia you'd want from this movie. The giant Simple Jack cardboard thing that McConaughey had.

2:05:44Bill Simmons:Yeah. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. It was in the back and it had like, it seemed like Simple Jack was moving back and forth on it. It was like a picture book. Can you imagine if you replaced Farrah Fawcett in your house with Simple Jack? I was thinking about it. Then I was like, oh, yeah, I can't have that. But I thought it was hilarious. I think any number of the Bluetooth headsets or BlackBerrys or like old 2008 phones. Yeah, the answer is the Qualcomm phone or the TiVo that Makani has, the box. I would love to have a can of booty sweat on my office desk. Yeah, that's a great one. Yeah, the original movie-worn booty.

2:06:19Busting the bar. Busting the party.

2:06:23Bill Simmons:Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi, wear for best worst life lesson. Porn sets the tone for everybody else. Porn leaves the way. Yep, for sure. Best double feature choice, CR? I had Zoolander just as like another satire by Ben Stiller. I had Hot Shots. Really? Dead Presidents. Oh, good one. That's a good one. I had The Player. What do you have, Craig? Double feature? Yeah. I'd probably stick right in 08. Go Step Brothers right after it. That's good. Who won the movie? Downey. Downey, man. Downey to me. Downey. Craig, go. I was 14 when this came out, 2008. Just like, I can't, the summer of 2008. Forgetting Sarah Marshall, Get Smart, Step Brothers, Pineapple Express, Tropic Thunder, and Role Models.

2:07:12Crazy. Wow. Like, in the year before that, had five other hits, and the year after that, had five more hits. No, but you're 14, you're rolling, right? I mean, this was like everything in the world. Like, this is just like the funniest shit ever. I mean, all of these movies, but I couldn't believe how many quotes from this movie I remembered. I haven't seen it in probably 10 years. And I could probably have done the whole movie from memory. I don't know. It's just fantastic across the board. What's the comedy summer of you guys' youth? It's probably closer to 84 or 86 or something like that. Yeah, mine's the 80 to 82 with Caddyshack, Blues Brothers, Airplane.

2:07:51Bill Simmons:Because sadly, when I'm Craig's age, it's when comedy is having a little bit of a drunken hangover. like I'm more like my 14 year old summer is probably more like another 48 hours and that's like that's not as good it's Beverly Hills cop sequels you know I'm probably like 2004 so like I was a big Pharoah fan so like Anchorman Talladega Nights Step Brothers like that was my shit you know I'll sit down and watch Talladega Nights anytime it really is just so different like what I expected at that age in a comedy I mean it was just the biggest stars in the world all together on a big set just fucking around.

2:08:26Yeah. I mean, that is so foreign to what you see today. I mean, they were very much fucking around. Like I said, the end of the movie, I mean, it was just like, it just got tired. Yeah, just the idea of giving these guys $90 million to do this is nuts. Also, you kind of got to give it to Tom Cruise a little bit. Like, the performance itself is very funny, but the fact that he came up with the character, wanted the, like, came up with the look of the character, apparently it was his idea to play Flo Rida. It's kind of like, Tom Cruise?

2:08:51Bill Simmons:Yeah. Okay. Plus having problems with Katie Holmes at that point. Well, I was going to say, with Jamie Foxx around that time too. You know what I'm saying? Oh, that's right. That's true. They were all like part of, you know. Then Jamie moved in there. Dan's like, I have no comment at this time. I'm fucking with it. So what's the play now? Can I say I love Tropic Thunder or no? Of course you can. Yeah. If I'm like, man, Downey Jr. and Tropic Thunder are hilarious. Is that fine? I mean, I can't give permission. You're on your own. You might have to answer a few more follow-ups. You know what I'm saying?

2:09:21You think so? I mean, I think you could get away from it the good way with it. The question is, could Bill? If Bill is somewhere in Southie, in Charleston, and he's talking to people and they ask Bill, what's his favorite movie? He's like, I love Downey and Tropic Thunder. I think probably at that point. You gotta be able to name a movie featuring a great performance by a black person. You can't just be like, my favorite performance by a black guy is Robert Downey Jr.

2:09:46Bill Simmons:When Van does Boston, he becomes Australian. He becomes Kurt Lazarus. You know, my favorite performance by a black guy is My favorite performance by a black guy Is Jay McDaniels In the first round against Oh and in the Joker Yeah that's my favorite performance That was Bounce of Bad I love Bounce of Bad Van loves it Van loves when the Joker goes down Oh wait is this a race thing Are you anti-Joker Do you realize what happened last weekend Van Joker got eliminated The Celtics got eliminated And Great White freaked out at the Kentucky Derby It was like a huge Van weekend Van sees Joker as an extension of the one battle after another That's not true.

2:10:23See, you guys are turning into people. That's not true. All I'm saying is I understand he's a badass motherfucker and by the way, the success just beat me down. I just heard that he was the greatest of all time and I was like, can we pump the brakes on that? That's all I said. So do you think he got punked by the way too? When he ran up on Jaden and Jaden was like, that's the situation.

2:10:47Bill Simmons:He didn't want to get thrown out of the game. He needed to fight. Then why run over there? Then why run over there like you go do something? Don't run over there. Because as he was running over there intending to kill Jaden McDaniels, he realized, I can't get thrown out for the series. And he was probably also like, oh, I just realized my brothers aren't at this game.

2:11:04He ran too far. And while you're running, you're thinking if it had been shorter. And then when he got there, Jaden did not. Yeah, he did not. He didn't back up. Jaden was like, oh, dog, we're about to fight. If you come over and Yoko's just like, nah.

2:11:18Bill Simmons:If Embiid had run over, he just would have run into him and then fallen down. Man, and the first call. Still bitter. You letting them get that off? Get your shot. Get your shot off. You letting them get that off? You beat them. You beat them. I'll do a Twitch stream later where I address it. Play by play. Look at this. They let everybody else push off. What about me? I can't push off. My favorite year ever where I play by myself and Jason Tate in one day. I hate my Rockets so much that I don't even care that your Lakers won. A lot of stuff. That's it for the rewatch of us. Joe, thank you for doing this.

2:11:50Yeah, thanks for having me on. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo in the back as well.

2:11:54Bill Simmons:Thanks to Joel. Great to see you. That was awesome. Thanks for having me on, man. You can hear Joel on the press box and watch him and on Ringer Tailgate. The best Ringer podcast that we have. Wow. At least in the top 40. At least in the top 40. Bottom quarter, I think, at least. It's a good college football season ahead. A lot of good arguments coming. UCLA football's return, Arch Manning. Is it important for me to... I shouldn't bring up UCLA right now, should I? No. we'll do it later good to see you too bud next week by the way not sure what we're doing yet but it will be a comedy so there you go see you next week