'What Lies Beneath’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Mallory Rubin

13:42Bill Simmons:The lady from the good son who's holding the two kids up lets Macaulay Culkin go. We haven't done the good son yet. It's coming. Okay. It's coming when we do From Hell Month. And my wife was like, this lady's really pretty and Michelle Pfeiffer is just blowing her off the screen. And she was like, I would never want to be an actress in her Michelle Pfeiffer movie during this time where you're just getting annihilated just being having coffee with her for three minutes. Great run. So she'd been a little bit of a slump after Dangerous Minds. Up close and personal to Jillian Iron's 37th birthday which is a great location movie.

14:18Bill Simmons:I highly recommend that. What's the location? Nantucket. Just go. You want to spend some time in Nantucket. Nice. One Fine Day. A movie that I think all of us thought was going to work and it just did it with Clooney. A Thousand Acres, Prince of Egypt, Deep End of the Ocean. which is tough. Sadly, not good. Midsummer Night's Dream. And then The Story of Us, which was another one that was basically about Rob Reiner's divorce. That one, her and Bruce Willis.

14:40Mallory Rubin:Oh, yeah.

14:41Bill Simmons:Not a good hang, that movie. And she kind of needed this one. And this was a massive hit. And then just pairing her and Harrison Ford, it's like fucking Mad Libs of just let's put two giant stars together. Chemistry-wise, I thought like a nine and a half out of ten? Ten out of ten? I mean, you know how I feel about this. Harrison Ford has chemistry with a blade of grass. Harrison Ford has chemistry with anyone. Top five chemistry for Harrison Ford in movies? Kelly McGillis? You know that I think McGillis, the longing, the yearning, and witness, I think can't be matched. So that's still your number one?

15:15Yeah. Who's the wife in the Spongebob?

15:17Mallory Rubin:Who's the wife in the Mosquito Coast? Helen Mirren. Helen Mirren. Because they reunited in 1923. That's right. And that, of course, he's a bad guy. He's a bad guy in that movie. So it's not like this is the first time we'd seen him be a bad guy. I'm trying to remember the...

15:30Bill Simmons:Kristen Scott Thomas in Random Hearts? I watched that movie a lot when I was younger. That movie's solid. I like Random Hearts. It's not my favorite Harrison Ford haircut, I will say, but he has chemistry. Who's Henry's white one? Presumed Innocent? Who's Henry's wife? Oh, for sure. Oh, regarding Henry. It's Annette Bening. Annette Bening, that's right. That's a great one. We'll be doing that during dramas that have now become comedy, but that's also in the schedule. He's got great chemistry with the Ritz crackers painting behind him in that movie. He's got chemistry with everyone. He would be the, like, a top five podcast for me.

16:01Bill Simmons:Harrison? Because I would ask questions like, all right, you're with every actress. Who did you have the best chemistry with?

16:07Mallory Rubin:He could, he was like a famously legendary interview because for so long, he was so, you know, such a curmudgeon, right? Yeah. And now he's kind of in his like phase of actually engaging in a more meta way with the fact that that was his interview persona for so long. Like when he did Dial of Destiny and 1923 and Shrinking kind of all at the same time and was really out there, I have never felt so alive.

16:28Bill Simmons:Oh, wow. I'm sure he's furious that Sam Elliott got this landman part. I couldn't have lay in a pool with some stripper. I was going to say he's in 1923, but obviously Sheridan famously reuses performers across many properties.

16:41Mallory Rubin:He also damaged Sam Elliott's hip on 1883, so it feels like this is payback for that. It's been incorporated into the plot. You fall into the pool, you can't get out because your hip hurts.

16:53Bill Simmons:Listen, I say this very lightly and not in an aggressive way to you, especially. but this was the end of his extended 25 year prime in this movie I agree with that we move into a different phase of Harrison Ford from 97 to 2000 Devil's Own Air Force One Six Days Seven Nights Random Hearts What Lies Beneath and Six Days Seven Nights was a good movie that got completely overshadowed by all the stuff going on with Ann Hatch but it's actually like a good movie

17:17Mallory Rubin:that's the plane crash movie

17:18Bill Simmons:where like yeah and they're together but he's 57 when he filmed this and now this was the final stop it was like John Cena turning heel no no no no in his prime Not the final stop. No, but this is kind of a move. It's like the last thing I haven't done has gone heel. There's a real lull after this for sure. And then I think he makes some good movies in the early tens, you know? But he's not like the Harrison Ford is the fugitive, I'm going. Yeah. I mean, we get like Force Awakens. What's like a 2000s movie?

17:47Mallory Rubin:Like K-19? Yeah, Widowmaker's like right on the heels of this. Indiana Jones 4 is good. I will defend that movie. Crystal Skull is good? Crystal Skull is not that bad. I don't think it's bad either. I actually don't think it's bad, but good it is.

18:00Bill Simmons:The first hour is great. That's not the one that came out a couple years ago. No, Dial of Destiny. But that's good. I think Dial of Destiny is good.

18:06Mallory Rubin:I think Dial of Destiny is good? I have a take on this that I feel strongly about. Crystal Skull is Spielberg still cooking for the first hour of that movie. Is that Shia? Dial of Destiny is mangle. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, that's not bad. It's good. None of them are bad. Even the things that are bad about them is fun. I would make that argument as well. Dial of Destiny is good because it's actually like, what is it like if you are the hero of your world to get old. It's like we're not pretending that Indy isn't old in that movie. That's actually interesting. It's a story about legacy. You don't like that?

18:33He was 80. And he still got it, man. When he took his shirt off, he looked fucking great. We went back to the elbow kiss. Wonderful.

18:38Mallory Rubin:He was 80. That's my problem with that movie.

18:40Bill Simmons:Did you have a take on the mailbag question we got about the Harrison Ford body odor category for Indiana Jones? Like just sticking. I don't think now I would have a problem with that. I don't know. You probably would be fine, right? I don't know. So this gets at a, I like, Chris has heard me talk about, I always wonder when there's like a showmance on Survivor when people are fucking on Survivor. I'm like, I can't really think of anything less appealing than. The hygiene gets. Yeah, exploring each other's bodies when you smell that much. But maybe you just go nose blind. Yeah, I, there's not a scenario where I wouldn't want to fuck Harrison Ford.

19:09I think you go nose blind. You can't present me with one. Sorry. Yeah, I think you go nose blind. Also, it's not like Marion in Raiders

19:14Mallory Rubin:is getting like spa days. You know what I mean? She's also out there. Yeah. She's, she's in the markets in Morocco or whatever. snuggling up in a cot together. Chris, did you buy Evil Harrison Ford?

19:25Bill Simmons:Oh, of course.

19:26Mallory Rubin:Yeah, I mean, I think he does a lot of really... The stuff I like the most in this movie are the subtle tips towards his evil throughout the film. So, like, his obsession with his dad, his muttering, his, like, obsession with, like, this big paper he's presenting. I like all that stuff. And then his heel turn at the end, especially the bathtub scene, the bathroom scene is really great.

19:50Bill Simmons:I mean, his legal defense would have been, I'm just a stick man. What do you want from me? What do you want? Man's got to get what a man's got to get. I'm sorry.

19:58Mallory Rubin:Got a lot of questions about law enforcement in the greater Vermont area. Me too. I have some questions about the state of Madison's missing person case throughout this movie. But on that like subtle clues front, you know, even the opening shot that we get, like our introduction to Norman, not the opening shot of the film, but the first time we see him is his hand, you know, Harrison Ford hand acting. Always something worth talking about. Nothing I'll ever top later on, but this is a great installment in the Harrison Ford hand acting. The bloody hands on the tub edge in particular, but like his hand reaching around a throat is opening.

20:26Oh, oh my God. Yeah. The hands of a carpenter put to good work in many respects throughout the decades. Much like Jesus, yeah. Indeed. Indeed. My Jesus.

20:33Bill Simmons:Jack Black, number one hand actor. Harrison Ford's hand acting is remarkable. If you're thinking about it, you can't unsee it. Once you know to look for it, it's everywhere. And so like the first thing we see with Norman is he's like reaching around and it ends up being a loving embrace, but it's a really threatening gesture if you look at it. in hindsight, I mean, maybe fun depending on, you know, what two consenting adults are up to on a given evening. Can't judge. No. I think we can keep up with that. As long as there's a safe word. I love Harrison Ford. I would take his entire library on a desert island over, I think, just about any other actor.

21:06Bill Simmons:I think it's a great question. Hanks is in there. Denzel. Denzel Stallone. Cruz. Cruz. Yeah. Cruz probably wins this, but it's... I would pick Harrison Ford. This would be a good ringer bracket. Desert Island filmographies. You only get the one person's filmography. Who are you taking? There's no way I'm not picking Harrison Ford because Witness is one of my favorites and then I get Star Wars and Indy. And Blade Runner? Come on. What's like the most?

21:31Mallory Rubin:Sean would be like Paul Dano. What is the most like Wichita State out there Cinderella one for this bracket? For that bracket? Like Joey Pants. Is it like Liam Neeson? Joey Pants is a great one. Because you get Mindy Run, you get The Matrix. It's like the Robert Ory. They have all the titles but they're just side characters.

21:48Bill Simmons:Honestly, Rogan, considering like he was even, he's in movies in 03. Like he's in, I was just, I just saw him in something in 03 or 04. He's the cameraman.

21:58Mallory Rubin:Oh, 40-year-old virgin. He's in.

22:01Bill Simmons:Yeah, 40-year-old virgin. One of those.

22:03Mallory Rubin:But you also can get Steve Jobs in there, right? Like with Rogan, that's right.

22:07Bill Simmons:Yeah, Rogan's got, I mean, if you go just 21st century, interesting one. We'll have to revisit that. This movie is Murderers, where I've graduated that guy's in that house. Mm-hmm. Like the good son mom, Wendy Crewson. Diana Scarwood. Yeah. From my favorite movie, Inside Moves, that CR won't acknowledge. It's a Red Hot October.

22:26Mallory Rubin:It's Anchorman, by the way. He's a cameraman and Anchorman. Anchorman, that's what it was. That's for our song.

22:30Bill Simmons:Joe Mooney.

22:32Mallory Rubin:Mm-hmm.

22:33Bill Simmons:Terminator 2. Like an ultimate that guy performance by Joe Mooney. One of the all-timers.

22:37Mallory Rubin:I mean, you still haven't mentioned my that guy.

22:40Bill Simmons:Well. Yeah. Who's your that guy?

22:42Mallory Rubin:The guy who plays Stan. Ray Baker, I think his name is. Who's the guy who sells… Quaid the package in Total Recall. I'm not even sure. Oh, that guy. It's like,

22:52Bill Simmons:sells him the Mars package. That's his name? Yeah. So you stepped on that guy, but I guess it was justified because we didn't mention James Remar yet. Yeah. James Remar? Richard from Sex and the City. I always said James Remar. I would say at least 20 times in my neighborhood. Yeah. We live in the same neighborhood and I'm just, I almost don't want to spoil it. I don't want to say anything to him. You don't want to tell him about this podcast? No? Just like, you know, man, Gantz, I think, is the best action movie villain of all time. Who are you more nervous to talk to?

23:24Mallory Rubin:Raymar or Peyton Pritchard? Oh, Raymar. Yeah. I mean, over an athlete in their 20s?

23:31Bill Simmons:No, Raymar, I think, is the number one that guy. I would be like, not nervous to talk to, but I would be really worried about the approach. You should leave a gift basket on his porch, just like Claire does in this movie, and then watch him through binoculars very sloppily. That's what I'm going to do. And then see does he discard the flowers that keep the wine. I like that. Zemeckis made this movie during the long break in Castaway. The only rewatchable is that somebody soloed which was me during five weeks into COVID. All-timer. All-time moved by you. Hanks had to lose weight and grow a beard.

24:08Bill Simmons:Zemeckis used the same crew and they filmed All of What Lies Beneath and then went back and finished Castaway. What a run. And also fucking heat check.

24:14Mallory Rubin:The thing that's amazing is it's not like this was an easy shoot. No. They reconstructed a house in Los Angeles sound stages to the interiors. Like this was a significant undertaking. It has a lot of visual effects. Water shooting, filming with water, never easy. What do you think Wilson was doing while Hanks was growing a beard? They're making more Wilsons. What was Wilson doing during the hiatus?

24:35Bill Simmons:The prop person was just bringing in more Wilsons. Is this too over the top? Sweet Wilson. Director standings. He moves into Soul Possession, fourth place. Interesting. So Back to the Future, one and two. Flight, this. Gump, Castaway. Yeah. What's his early movie? He has used cars, I think, that we could do. There's a couple later. So Spielberg and Scott are at nine. Mann and Scorsese are eight. Fincher and Reiner are seven. Zemeckis, six. That's where we are right now. Ridley Scott and De Palma at five. Wow. There's some ones that are probably going to bump up. There's some on the list that...

25:14Bill Simmons:Tarantino's probably going to start rising pretty soon. Are you going to finally do Blade Runner and move Ridley Scott up?

25:19Mallory Rubin:I wonder if Denis Villeneuve will have any action.

25:21Bill Simmons:We'll just stay and do it right after this. I'll call Ted and see when Blade Runner's going to be on. I'll text him later. Movies written by Clark Gregg. This is like... And who's an actor? Who's an actor? I'm just saying he's an actor. Colson in the MCU. This is crazy. He's not. He might as well be like

25:41Mallory Rubin:he plays Galadriel. You know, like he doesn't know. He definitely doesn't know who Galadriel is. Did he stop Velcro?

25:50You're the best. He has a very crucial showdown with Loki at one point. The fact that agent Phil Colson, an agent of S.H.I.E.L.D., who is in the MCU, rewrote this script, right? rewrote it. I just don't know how to wrap my mind around this. It's really strange.

26:11Mallory Rubin:It's strange that he's never, has he done other stuff other than this? He has two other movies that he has done. He has the screenplay credits for Choke in 2008 and trust me, in 2013. Choke with Sam Rockwell?

26:24Bill Simmons:I saw that movie. And this. How about that? Yeah, and according to a recent article from CBR.com, Clark Gregg has said that he intends to return to the What Lies Beneath universe.

26:35Mallory Rubin:Does he really? Oh, it's a universe now. I don't know what that means. Do we think we're going to get like a Caitlin story? Yeah. You know, something like that.

26:42Bill Simmons:One thing I wanted to mention about the universe, just being located in Vermont. Mm-hmm. It's gorgeous. And how much great Hollywood stuff happens in Vermont. And it's also like all bets are off in Vermont, New Hampshire. Yeah. It's where like in The Sopranos when Vito gets outed and he's just like, he's up there with Johnny Cakes in Vermont or New Hampshire.

27:02Mallory Rubin:It's where Diane Keaton bumps into Sam Shepard being a veterinarian in Baby Boo.

27:06Bill Simmons:Yeah, you just never know what's going to happen up there. There's no cops. Funny Farm, I think, was it up there? But it's always like upstate New York, New Hampshire.

27:14Mallory Rubin:New England is a great...

27:15Bill Simmons:Vermont. It's just great. It's remote.

27:18Mallory Rubin:It always feels safe, but it's kind of not good location. I can't think of a better movie with Lake Champlain in the background.

27:24Bill Simmons:Yeah. It's beautiful. The original story was written by Sarah Kanochin. Documentarian. Inspired by a real paranormal experience she had, obviously, in my wheelhouse. You love this. Our house is fine. The ghosts love us now. You're getting along with the ghosts.

27:40Mallory Rubin:Yeah, they accept us now. What do you mean? This house has no ghosts anymore? Or you have cohabitated? No, they're here still. They're here. They're good with us. Give me a little bit of color on that.

27:51Bill Simmons:So, like, how would you say you guys are... Nothing happened except went away for a couple weeks in the summer. Yeah. and came back and like a frame fell over like within 20 minutes of us being home. As a way to say we're glad you're back, you think? Or it's like, hey, you pushed it there. We like when you're around. Yeah. That's how I interpreted it. Okay. Interesting. Third floor, there's a door that just, sometimes it's open, sometimes it's shut. Nobody touches it. Big part of the plot of this movie. Yeah. So has anybody like written a message to you in the steam in a mirror? No. Okay. See, that would actually freak me out.

28:27Mallory Rubin:That would freak me out, too. Are you open to having a paranormal investigator come over and interrogate?

28:33Bill Simmons:No, because I don't think the ghost would like that. I want the ghost to like us.

28:35Mallory Rubin:Okay.

28:36Bill Simmons:I think that putting them on display I don't think works. You want to be like, we acknowledge they're there. They like us. Why are you? No, I just think, so this is one of my, I can't decide if this is like the hot take about the movie. I have another hottest take, but the hot take about the movie is, if you stay in a haunted house that long, you deserve to maybe die, or if what's aged the worst is just like how long Claire stays around after all of these horrible things are happening. She should have left pretty early. Yeah, it's kind of disqualifying. But I think what, when I'm bumping on with what you're saying, I like that you guys are cohabitating peacefully.

29:08I think you're afraid of the ghost still and you're pretending you're not because the fact that you're really like, there's a level of trepidation here. Go up and get dog food up there all the time.

29:15Mallory Rubin:Yeah? Yeah. You don't want to piss off the ghost and that means that you're still living in fear. And what's the sort of household feeling on it? But like wife.

29:25Bill Simmons:Zoe's in the worst spot with it because she had a dream once that a witch was clawing at her and woke up and had scratch marks on her arm. But she might have done it herself. Did she have any like skin under her fingernails? I probably should have led with that. I mean, that's bad. Yeah, that wasn't great. That's bad. She's like, we have a witch. I'm like, nah, we don't know. A witch would be cool. Is it the ghost of a witch or like a witch who is just like, you know. See, 2026, we're really bringing it on the rewatch. We'll take it up another level. Yeah, skip it in any direction. $100 million budget for What Lives Beneath.

29:55Bill Simmons:Which is... It made$291 million. Yep. 10th biggest film of 2000. New category. The Horlbeck Century Club. Yeah. So one of our listeners said that we have to tie everything to 100 minutes. This movie, Craig, 130 minutes. Yeah. So what is it on the scale? It's not 30 minutes too long, is it?

30:18Mallory Rubin:No, it's probably 15, though. This probably could be a 155-er, I think, is the right move. There is a, it's, the first hour is definitely a little slow. I have to imagine with the rewatch even, knowing what's coming probably feels like it takes quite a while to get there. There's a lot of like, she looks through the binoculars three more times and she probably needs to. It is a little slow for a while. It's also a tough movie to, you have to watch it. You have to watch like all the little clues. Yes. All the little camera moves. It demands a lot of attention. There's a lot of sequences without dialogue.

30:50Mallory Rubin:And so it's a tough movie to be like, I'm going to go get a chocolate chip cookie and come back and I'll know what's going on.

30:56Bill Simmons:I give it a minus 15. Well, I'm wondering do we use decimals or is it just straight digits? I was wondering if we were going to create

31:01Mallory Rubin:our own metric like how many Horlbecks do you want to give this movie? Plus or minus 10 Craig. So it's a custom metric. So he's minus it's like a minus 14.7. Something like that.

31:12Bill Simmons:Yeah. I'll keep track

31:13Mallory Rubin:and we'll see at the end of the year which is the biggest number.

31:15Bill Simmons:Yeah. I like the Horlbeck scale. I agree with you. I think like about 154 range is probably But do you agree that it should be removed from the front of the movie. Because I would pause it. I'd be curious when you rewatch it what you actually think of this because the end is so suspenseful when you're watching it for the first time. Once you know what's coming, I will say, I would tighten it a little bit. Yeah, I agree. 20 minutes of slowly walking down the steps and stopping in places in the bridge. Everything is very deliberate. It's a touch too long once you know the rest of it. There's a couple of things that happen where you're like,

31:47Mallory Rubin:No argument here. Did she even need a... There's a couple of things. like if you're going to dive in to get the jewelry box. Yeah. Like just open. Like we don't need to go on a long trip to Adamant to get the key. You know what I mean? Good call, CR. That's why you're the best. But we get to see a charming village. Yeah, that's true.

32:05Bill Simmons:Another new category, watch party. Best setting for a watch rewatch. I'm only going to give all these once, but afterwards we'll be much faster. So the nominees are first date, date night after you've been dating for a while or you're married. Absolutely not. Kids, in-laws, safe, scary. Family hang, proxy vacation, theater, airplane, solo. That's CR's category for hardcore. Peanut gallery, ladies' night, pregame, or five o 'clocker. This is safe scary, obviously. This is... Yeah. You can... Kids can watch this. You can be at your girlfriend's house when you're visiting her in college, and it's like, what should we watch?

32:38Bill Simmons:And it's like, oh, we could probably watch What Lies Beneath or something bad.

32:41Mallory Rubin:Gotta say, I do think it has some late summer vacation vibes. Oh, like a... Like last two days at the vacation. before you go back home and any body of water nearby it helps yeah yeah I like that there's a boat

32:55Bill Simmons:bad news Roger Ebert two stars yeah yeah he said it milks the genuine skills of its actor and director for more than it deserves it runs off the rail in the ending more laughable than scary mm-hmm he uses the phrase morass of absurdity at one point ah man poet poet he's not alone in his opinion of this movie this is not exactly a critically adored

33:19Mallory Rubin:piece of cinema. 49 % on the old RT, I believe. 51 on Metacritic.

33:25Bill Simmons:I took my wife, my future wife, to see this movie and I remember where we saw it and it was fine. Yeah. But I think as the years have passed, I think it's become a better hang. It's a really good throw it on movie. Interesting. You can just kind of be on as you're doing something else. It's just pleasant, pleasant fun hang. Taking a break and we're going to do most of the watchable scene. This episode is brought to you by Brooks Running. Sometimes in the film world, we see performances on screen that are so mind-blowing, you think someone somewhere is bending the rules. Like when one actor plays twins or nails a really difficult accent.

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35:11Bill Simmons:Imagine being a million miles away. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphaya. Tap this ad to learn more about Trimphaya, including important safety information. All right, I'm going to throw some most rewatchable scenes at you. The first 25 minutes are tough. Yeah. Where it's a lot of like set up, set up, set up. It's really the dinner double date. That's your first rewatchable scene? Well, you could pick any small ones, like binoculars, jump scare.

35:42Mallory Rubin:I'm just kind of moving us along. Here's the thing. The first time through, the binoculars, the jump scare through the fence, all very cool. Yeah. Multiple times through, you're like, I know the viewers are like a complete red herring. So the first half hour of this movie is kind of for nothing.

35:55Bill Simmons:I feel like you could start this 25 minutes in and you're okay. But you're right. The dinner scene is awesome. I love double dates where we're just getting info and we're picking apart couples and I'm getting little clues.

36:08Mallory Rubin:The crosstalk is great. Yeah. You're really straining. Yeah. Like when you first watched it or when you rewatch it, do you listen to the men or the women? Well, this is an interesting litmus test, isn't it? I listen to the women. I listen to the men.

36:22Bill Simmons:As an ally, yeah. I listen to whoever Michelle Pfeiffer was talking to. Well, she's talking to Elena, so you're listening to the women. I'm listening to, I'm hanging on Harrison Ford. But it's kind of amazing because

36:30Mallory Rubin:Stan gives away the movie because he's like, did you hear about Beau whatever who got stalked by it. Yeah, Beau Flann and Cardio. Yeah, and he's like, wow, they really don't play with those things anymore, do they, you know? And he seems nervous. Norman seems a little nervous. The only thing before that that I think you have to mention, unless we're going to just talk about all the sex stuff later, is Claire and Norman trying to like compete with the Fuhrer's fucking. That's memorable and rewatchable. That's fair. I don't see a way that that's not rewatchable. Do you notice when you revisit that that Harrison Ford's hands are the same size as the entire keyboard?

37:05Mallory Rubin:Didn't notice that. Didn't pick that up. Keep an eye out. Next time you look. How about the way that when he leans back forward and he's like, do some more of that Norman's genius stuff, Michelle Pfeiffer's leg is on his shoulder. You know what he's doing down there. Very memorable. Very rewatchable. Very rewatchable. Body with her for a while.

37:28Bill Simmons:I've been watching Game of Thrones in the sauna. I have so many questions about it. I mean, I'm thrilled you're revisiting. I feel like it could be our next ringer rewatch pod. we've done that before but sure no same IP same IP just me and Asana going whoa yeah red wedding and then the pod's over that would be great I think your your recap where you don't know a single character's name would be really like would have a lot of utility for people the blonde one I know the names now because I'm so hot I actually have to concentrate oh interesting so it's like oh Sansa look at this guy it's King Robert Baratheon Bobby B Bobby B's in there Hit him with a hammer Look at you Hey, Joffrey Oh my god This guy I gotta say Really fun getting back together With the gang Yeah It's a great show I mean Disasterous ending Are you gonna watch the new one?

38:17Disasterous Well, that's why I'm kinda setting this up

38:19Mallory Rubin:To maybe keep coming The new one's set before this Yeah It starts in a week and a half No, 1100s?

38:25Bill Simmons:Uh, yeah Yeah, Dark Ages Joanna didn't know that joke I know I think she seriously thought I thought it was in the 1300s Well, you did think it was that On some level You do seriously think that You don't know that it's not. Next rewatchable scene, Claire finds a full bathtub in a steamy bathroom and a waterlogged ghost in the reflection. This is arguably, I'm out of here. I'm staying in a hotel from now on. I would simply leave. I don't know if I'm back in the house after this.

38:54Mallory Rubin:But I do like the anxiety of both the marriage and the renovation project that they seem to have undertaken with this house of being like, we just, I'm fucking not leaving this place. Okay. Like I've been rebuilding it. We've come this far. For 10 years. You know, this is Norman's dad's place, but we gutted it. We got it all. The DuPont chair. It's all actually, I think that's actually kind of one of the weird things about re-watching the movie is realizing how much of the key plot is really about the last year. Yeah. This year of key events in their lives. Obviously the car crash, everything with Madison, the DuPont chair.

39:26But it does make me wonder, have they done all of the renovations in that span of time?

39:29Mallory Rubin:Some amnesia in there. They mentioned it during the dinner. I can't remember, but they're like, that's his joke is like my dad is haunting us because he's so mad at what we did to the house.

39:38Bill Simmons:We could have thrown in a scene with a kid that went to college being like, my mom's been fucking batshit for like a year. I want to get to Caitlin in a second. Okay. Next one. The Ouija board scene. No question. This is a great one. I have multiple things I wrote down here including has there ever been a bad Ouija board scene? Yeah. Ever. There has been.

40:01Mallory Rubin:No.

40:01Bill Simmons:No. Is there a bad Ouija board scene? No. I don't ever remember watching a movie in any capacity or a TV show or anything where they're like let's bring out the Ouija board. It always works. I'm always like how can you guys do this? Have you ever done a Ouija board? I would never ever do that. When I was a kid. Yeah. When you like pretend you light some candles you sit in a circle you think you're doing sounds. Yeah we used them in like middle school and high school and stuff. Yeah because you don't know any better. If you're a fucking adult using a Ouija board like what are you doing? Well and look what happened.

40:30The lights flickered the candle went out and then Cooper great Cooper action in this scene in particular I have some notes for Cooper because like he obviously can sense that things are amiss he won't go into his favorite spot of water to get his favorite ball anymore but he hasn't like totally turned heel and abandoned his loyalty to Norman but when he busts into the bathroom here it scares the shit out of them it's high comedy

40:53Mallory Rubin:like I mean I know you guys love dogs but like I don't think he's making it they're the most intuitive animals are the most intuitive creatures yeah but he doesn't understand the depths of Norman's depravity well

41:00Bill Simmons:Can I break the tiebreaker here? I wrote down Cooper the dog just crushing it. Yeah, thank you. Bill gets it and always has. I thought it was a great performance by him. He'd make a great dog. I thought he could have been a little more loyal. Yeah. In a couple spots. Yeah, but like when he barks, you know, when we see the muddy footprints and we worry it's going to be Warren and then it's Norman because they're late to dinner. Like Cooper on some level, he sensed something was amiss. Well, this leads right into her screaming at my guy James Remar at the party, which was just a good payoff for the red herring.

41:32Bill Simmons:Yes. Yeah. My wife's, what does he say? My wife's right here. I didn't kill my wife. I didn't kill my wife. Way too calm. She's right here. Way too calm. Definitely it's some, one of my unanswerable questions is that how many years into the future does Warren kill Mary? Because for sure he kills her.

41:46Mallory Rubin:He just leaves her for a student. Or maybe both. Not mutually exclusive. Yeah, it's true.

41:52Bill Simmons:He might have gone same game parlay. Trying to get both of those in. Oh, man. old beddling lady at the party and to her realizing Michelle Pfeiffer realizing who M-E-F Madison Elizabeth Frank was but also like

42:07Mallory Rubin:that's the point where she's starting to realize like oh there's a huge chunk of my life that I don't remember like this the car accident that I think is fine that everybody else is so alarmed about and having this freak out at the party that's how I that's how I feel about all the podcasts

42:23Bill Simmons:I did in 2020 they're gone beginning of 2021 they're gone I listen to them now it's like somebody else did them Have you ever had a moment where you're prone over a desk doing whatever you might be doing and you look back, a gust of wind catches your ear, and then in the mirror you see yourself potting about Alex Bregman? It might be happening soon. It's like, oh man, I did Saturday Night Fever with Jimmy Kimmel. This is going to be good. How do you feel about red apples and lit candles near your genitals? That I didn't like the lit candles. I did not like that. You know what I did like? My next rewatchable scene.

42:58Bill Simmons:Possess Claire. This is the best. All caps, yes. This is my most rewatchable scene. No question. Pfeiffer just breaking it out. You know, it's like... Spreading the legs. I'll throw it in the low 90s, but if you don't think I can still get to 101, watch this.

43:14Mallory Rubin:It is... 104. It is hard because it's like where she basically is like, I could have done Basic Instinct. You know, like I have this in my back. She had the side. Yeah.

43:23Bill Simmons:It was the side. She never really... She, Fabulous Baker Boy is probably the closest. A little in Scarface. Dangerous Minds, they didn't want to go near there. And that's the one where they really could have, they cut out all the Andy Garcia stuff in that movie. But yeah, she never really, she always wanted to kind of levitate above it. I respect it.

43:42Mallory Rubin:It's so great how Long Norm's just like, I'm kind of into this. You know what I mean? Like for like the, it's really, really, really, it takes it for a while. I mean, who can blame him, right? Like the apple, the rough bite of the apple, very weird, very funny, obviously disarming. but when she sits on the step when she's waiting in the step of the office with the candle in front of her and opens her legs I mean come on his expression there is absolutely fucking priceless this is amazing I guess Catwoman

44:06Bill Simmons:was probably the time she turned it on the most right Catwoman is very sexy role you've seen that clip where she uses the whip and hits the five things all in sequence and then the crew starts applauding

44:18Mallory Rubin:for the Batman movie no yeah it's like

44:20Bill Simmons:it's one of those like a camera far away and she's like alright action and she's like and everybody goes nuts. And everyone's like... I mean, who can blame them? What do you think she whispers into his ear? Because there's like, I timed it. It's like 3.4 seconds. I'm not sure how quick I was on the turner that we don't hear.

44:37Mallory Rubin:I can't believe that there isn't like any speculation about this. I looked for this online and I couldn't find any literature. Not on the subtitles either. Do you think she whispered something very, very, very sexy? Oh, I think it's naughty.

44:47Bill Simmons:Yeah. Because he's getting pretty fired up. Yeah. A turn that we've never heard of.

44:52Mallory Rubin:Do you think Claire has that dress just in the back of the closet? or is that something she purchased special? I think she has it around. You know, they're clearly like, they have some like galas, nights in the town. So in this stretch where, you know, we are obviously going to see the flash of green, that's like the most iconic moment from the movie, right? I mean, I guess you could say some of the bathtub reflections and stuff like that. But, you know, who glowing green eyes, your wife. That's like, whether or not you've seen the film, you've seen that moment for sure.

45:19Bill Simmons:True. Just a short one, but broken Claire jumping right into the lake. It's good. I like the way it shot. Possible great shot Gordo for CR. Claire finds the buried chest. Yep. Leading into semi-crying, confessing Harrison Ford, which I'm just, sorry, Mal. I'm giving him the Ruffalo, Hannah Rubinick, Partridge overacting word. What? It's such a subtle, restrained performance. I don't think he was a good crier.

45:43Mallory Rubin:I thought it was kind of bad. He does a good, like, the prayer hands thing is good. But yeah, like what he's... I just... What should I have done? Should I sacrifice everything? Our marriage? My work that I spent my whole life on?

45:57Bill Simmons:I was compelled. Claire redials 411. Yeah. And evil Harrison Ford is here. And he has some weird drug I've never heard of that paralyzes you for six months. Well, it comes up earlier in the movie. Yeah, Chekhov's paralytic agent, right, from earlier in the movie when she goes to the lab. And they're like, yeah, somewhere between five to three seconds. And like, you can't move, but your mind, you know, you're aware of everything. Halothene. We should have given this to Sean when I was doing my top 50 rewatchable list. He's just paralyzed in the same... Trying to move his foot as I do Limitless.

46:29Every five minutes hit him with another. A little dose. I wrote down,

46:33Bill Simmons:is this the paralyzing drug the Eagles give Jalen Hurts when they're up 20? That's one for one. Boy. Tough. That's a fair question. Greg left. Very tough. Very, very tough.

46:44Mallory Rubin:Come on, take some shots at my team, guys. No, I'm just going to wait. By the time this comes out, I think this is bad karma for you. because by the time this comes out, you will have played. I like this energy. So just keep that in mind. Yeah. It's fair. It's fair.

46:54Bill Simmons:I'll make a joke about the pets later. Try to reverse the camera. Drowning scene and then car crash ending. Incredible job by the waterlogged ghost corpse.

47:05Mallory Rubin:This is... Breaking through and saving the day. I have to say, I disagree with the appearance of the ghost in such a physical form in that place. I feel like for the most part, for the rest of the movie, it's like a suggestion. It's an image in the mirror. I've taken over the computer. Kind of that kind of thing. I guess that's home turf. Too corporeal. I guess that's like, you're going to play the ghost in its gym, so they can move around a little bit more. Yeah. But it was just like Harrison Ford seeing her and getting yanked, basically, I just thought broke a little bit of a fourth wall. Why don't you want a woman to be in control of her own body?

47:39I'm fine with it.

47:41Mallory Rubin:Just play by the same rules for the entire movie.

47:44Bill Simmons:Tarantino texted Zemeckis and was like, my one nitpick. Not enough feet. I didn't like the corpse. On the bright side, the feet stuff was great.

47:53Mallory Rubin:What's your most rewatchable? I honestly think it might be that dinner scene. Oh, wow. I really think it's very cool. I know that the obvious one is...

48:00Bill Simmons:I have that number two for me. Yes. Possess. For sure. Possess Pfeiffer is the best. What's the most 2000 thing about this movie? I have slow modem speeds and not having a cell phone camera as proof for your suspicions on something.

48:14Mallory Rubin:I had having to drive a distance to get a cell phone signal. Oh. I had hitting redial to landline to see where somebody called before. That's good. Yeah.

48:23Bill Simmons:Special category. We don't get to give it away that often. The Amanda Dobbins Award for Best Piece of Real Estate. Yes. The house. Yes. So Addison, Vermont, Banks of Lake Champlain, and they built this from scratch, 3 ,500 square foot Nantucket style, and did so much filming in the bathroom that they made five different bathrooms. probably arguably the most bathroom filming yeah in a movie there's a lot of bathrooms and train spotting that's why shut we're in the bathroom for a while yeah sure attraction we're in there for a little bit is it it's not the master bathroom though right it is it's like there's a door from the hallway and from their bedroom yeah it's one of those odd that they're always entering like off the stairwell you would have gone further with the renovation is what i'm

49:08Mallory Rubin:hearing maybe seal that off on three bathrooms shouldn't have a hallway entrance no yeah i I agree with you on this.

49:14Bill Simmons:Needs like a better door lock if you're going to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, sadly, they tore the house down after filming. It doesn't mean local building codes. Wasn't like a real house. It's just like a shell. Yeah. They filmed some stuff in LA too. What's age the best? I have a bunch, but what do you have? Anything good?

49:32Mallory Rubin:Casting Harrison Ford as a guy who tries to kill his wife after the fugitive where he plays a guy who's wrongly accused of killing his wife. No question. I like how Zemeckis is constantly, subtly moving the camera so that it feels like you are watching Michelle Pfeiffer from a ghost POV. Steven Soderbergh just made a movie that is this, it is this presence where you're, it's like a haunted house movie from the ghost's perspective. But this is really cool because like you can always see like whenever Michelle Pfeiffer is walking around, like the camera's just kind of always slowly following her, but then like kind of going back and it just feels like something is always watching her.

50:09Mallory Rubin:So I always really liked that. I like that. What do you have, Mel? I think on the, like, Chekhov's X list, that's a pretty fun part of it. We already talked about the paralyzing agent, the mystery key, the newspaper clipping from the DuPont chair night and how key that's going to be. No cell service until you get to the middle of the bridge. You know, the boat being hooked to the bed of the truck. Like, all of these little things, I think we will, I assume, talk later about maybe the parts of the script that don't quite measure up. But I think the like, this is actually go, we're telling you this or showing you this because it is going to prove vital in the final stretch.

50:46That's successful.

50:48Bill Simmons:I had that as well. The subtle foreshadowing. Yeah. I like when movies kind of plant like these little seemingly harmless things and then circles back at dinner like, oh yeah, she can't get rid of it. Yeah. It's like, we're not in this lab for no reason. You know, just because she's visiting him at work. Like we're going to care about something that matters. My daughter's generation, they're on their phone during that first part of the movie and they completely. they're just like what the hell they're like why can't he get receptions again well I'll tell you what no generation could possibly miss it's the symbolism 101 stuff on display on the adamant trip that you would have preferred to remove from the movie is this a little too like obvious on the nose maybe but I actually think in this movie it's very effective and it works you have the shop is called Sleeping Dog right give me a break come on right the Georgia O 'Keeffe esque design of the pendant and the like sigil on the jewelry box which is basically like a mashup of a heart, a flower, and a vagina.

51:44Like what could be more perfect for the thing to bedeck your mistress with? And then the Celtic knot on the key. That's like an interesting one because, of course, you have all the different aspects of that symbolism. You know, unity, faith, love, etc. But also this idea of like unending life with a ghostly specter and also just the triple aspect of it, the trio. I think that's kind of, again, not subtle, very one-on-one, but kind of fun to look for on a rewatch.

52:10Bill Simmons:I had famous movie stars in a well-done movie, which we discussed earlier. I had Vermont as a scary movie location. Yeah, yeah. I had any super attractive actress playing the cello? Sure. Oh, yeah. It's always good. Any other examples of that? You really got to wrap your body around that. I couldn't come up with any, but I just feel like that's going to work. I have dangerous bath scenes, but also dangerous things happening in a bathroom. We spend so much time in bathrooms. Harrison Ford hitting his head on the sink is one of my worst fears

52:41Mallory Rubin:right for myself not for Harrison Ford

52:44Bill Simmons:also like just going into your bathroom and the bathtub's full and you didn't fill it up that happened to me once yeah

52:51Mallory Rubin:that when we got back from vacation once there was like a clog and the bath like just the drip had filled up the entire bathtub

52:58Bill Simmons:oh my god CR yeah Fatal Attraction I think and this is in the finals for best bathroom scene we did Fatal Attraction a long time ago We sure did. We spent most of the time talking about how he came home after two days of fucking Glenn Close and gave his dog spaghetti meatballs, which is the single worst thing anyone's ever done in a movie. Absolutely demented. And Mallory's still upset. Fucking demented. Just a complete violation as a dog owner. Oh, my God. Speaking of dogs. Yeah, Cooper. When dogs know something is wrong, evil, or off in some way, always gets me in a movie. The dogs always know.

53:31Bill Simmons:They always know. They do. Animals are very intuitive. They really are. and then this is this is an amazing one you won't be prepared for this one okay for what stage is the best this was a big deal for me and my high school friends in 2000 my friend Scott Carino who I went to high school with and moved to LA to try to become an actor and was in like extra Melrose Place 90210 and kind of his the biggest thing I think he did he's the dead husband in the photo of Michelle Pfeiffer he's the blood husband Oh my god My high school friends got Carino Oh my god What So he's in two of the photos And uh My buddy Jeff My best friend The guy The Halloween I've talked about him on the pod Who loved Carino Yeah He was a big character for us And he was like the highlight of 2000 Do you have any idea Like what does somebody get paid for something like that You get paid as an extra We asked him Okay You get like Wow It's like a single still whatever I don't know if You don't get a speaking line So you don't get that part But you get the whatever.

54:34Bill Simmons:But yeah. That's incredible. Basically, he was married to Michelle Pfeiffer.

54:39Mallory Rubin:If you're non-union, no. Iconic.

54:41Bill Simmons:I should have taken a picture of it and showed you guys. Probably got like 500 bucks. That's crazy. That's another real 2000s aspect of this movie too is like the physical photo album. I know.

54:51Mallory Rubin:And also keeping newspaper articles and stuff like that. You just have your camera on your phone. You're not going to like sit down and spookily discover something in your hands in the basement anymore.

55:01Bill Simmons:So obviously, I was... what was Pfeiffer like and just they photoshopped this thing. I was going to say there's no way he actually got to take those pictures. He did have some good Melrose Place stories. That's good. I bet. Apparently Vanessa Marceau was really attractive. I still remember that from way back when.

55:19Mallory Rubin:Great check order award. What do you have CR? When she comes down at the fence and the eye is in the when she's looking through the fence. I like those. And then the eye is right there.

55:28Bill Simmons:That is batting a thousand when people do that. When they're looking through the thing and then the face comes on the other side. I don't know if that's ever not worked. Hey, new category. The Dr. Richard Kimball Inappropriate Body Award goes to Harrison Ford again. Way to go. We only give it to Harrison Ford. He looks great. He's fucking 57 and looks like he's about to play the Niners in the NFC title game. That was my flex. He looks perfect. We're going to change the name

55:53Mallory Rubin:of the category. He looks perfect. He's seven years older than Richard Kimball, Dr. Norman Spencer, and he's 3 % less body fat than Richard Kimball. I got to say, because I know that this is coming out on Monday, right? Yeah. We get shirtless Sam Elliott in this episode of Landman, and it's fucking incredible. Like, it looks like he's carved out of a tree trunk. It's unbelievable. And it's very similar body type to 57-year-olds. And you could argue Kimball makes more sense than this guy. This guy's 57. He's allegedly obsessed with his work, always at work. He lives in Vermont. It's raining all the time.

56:26Mallory Rubin:Why is this guy so chiseled? Two responses. One, he's constantly jamming on undergrads. And two, he's boating. Yeah, it's sex muscles. We'll come back to that because I have a counterpoint to the constantly part of that, which we'll come back to in another category. Come back to that in another category. Put a pin in it. But, you know, they boat, right? They talk about taking drives. They're active. I mean, maybe it's He's not rowing. They're sailing. I think it's just, yeah, they're fucking all the time. He is more ripped than any current NFL quarterback in this movie. He looks great. And he probably eats like three bowls of Wheaties in the morning.

56:56Mallory Rubin:Has a piece of toast. The occasional bite of a red apple from his possessed wife's hand. He's crazy. Diet of Champions. Why is he so jacked? Was there a movie before this that he needed to be big for? He's just always been in shape.

57:06Bill Simmons:Always. Imagine if you gave him like the peptides or some of the stuff the athletes use. Would he just turn into like Barry Bonds in 2001? No, but that's that's what makes him

57:14Mallory Rubin:so aspirational. Exactly. It's like a real body. It's a real, exactly. It's like, yeah, when he's chugging lemonade in Witness, you're like, yeah. I do think this should be the scientist Norman Spencer Award for inappropriate body. More than Kimball, right?

57:28Bill Simmons:It is better because he's older. Yeah. it's just always it always makes sense to me it always makes sense to me he was Indiana Jones I don't know what to say I don't know what to say Sierra's got a flex category

57:39Mallory Rubin:in honor of fantasy let's do the stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm oh yeah most of the furor's plot is an homage an homage to Rear Window the Claire Madison ghost lookalike stuff is all vertigo and the score the Alan Silvestri score is an homage to Bernard Herman's Psycho score Bobby Z

57:59Bill Simmons:just fucking cracking it Hitchcock. And all the two-toe stuff was an homage to Tarantino. It's a secret surprise for his buddy. Oh, the Mallory Rubin Award. Did this movie need a better sex scene? Oh, man. Honestly, clear out for Trey Young. It's his last possession with the Hawks. We'll go five out offense. Just go in the corner. So, I'm torn. Because on the one hand, I think the fact that we pull away from all of the glimpses of what their sex life is like is like part of what adds to the tantalizing nature of it. So at the beginning, you know, when Caitlin is still around, it's the like, we'll be quiet, quick and quiet.

58:39I don't want to be either. You're like, I would just watch them fuck, of course. But the fact that we don't feels appropriate for where we are in the movie. Then we get to the first night as empty nesters and they can hear Warren and Mary.

58:53Bill Simmons:Yeah. Decibels rising along with that erection, right? They're going at it. Close the windows. No, open them. Think we can take them. It's worth a try. And we get, again, like the leg over the shoulder. He's going down on her. Like this is like when I watch the rest of the scene, happily and without complaint. But it's fun to just like get a little glimpse of what their life is like. You know, you want to fool around. She's pretending to read, waiting for him to finish his work. You get the sense that this could just be every night in their life. And then of course we learn that there's a period of time where it wasn't.

59:26And that is why he strayed. Also, he's a sociopath. And then the desk scene, I mean, the biting of the lip, the tearing of the shirt, that scene is like pretty close to perfect. So I don't know where else we would introduce a sex scene.

59:42Mallory Rubin:That seems like it's what he's looking for in the bedroom. A torn shirt and a bit lip and he's like, he's pretending like it's too rough, but that's part of the game. Yes. That's part of the game. Yeah, see, I think what Norman really wants is like, he wants when he's looking at her on the step with the candle and the apple and the legs wide, he definitely wants to just sit there and like watch her masturbate. That's their vibe, I think. Right? Yeah. So we could have gotten that. That would have been great.

1:00:06Bill Simmons:It's just a shame Malta didn't have any thoughts. Could we have gotten a Madison flashback? Like, could Madison have somehow shown us something about their sex as a point of contrast? obviously the physical resemblance that is incorporated into the plot of the movie could have been used to dupe us where we think we're watching Claire and Norman and realize we're watching Madison and Norman. For the most part, he shied away from the sex sex stuff. Ford? Yeah. Well, this is like, yeah. Presumed Innocent, I think, is the furthest he went. Pumping away on the desk in Presumed Innocent is notably the same.

1:00:39What's the Poinske one

1:00:40Mallory Rubin:where he's running around in Paris? Frantic. He starts cocaine in a toilet stall in that movie. That's very memorable. There's not like a crazy sex scene in that movie. There's a lot of sexual energy in that movie. Yes. That's a good movie.

1:00:50Bill Simmons:Yeah. Well, speaking of sexual energy, the Dennis Peck relationship test is our next category. I wish you could give it its real category name. Rewatchable. Yeah, exactly. Come on. Commit. Named after... The Dennis Peck, I'm going to make your wife come. So the mailbag question of this was... I think it's I'm going to teach your wife. Teach your wife. Teach your wife. Sorry. I didn't mean to get the line right. It's an important distinction. It was about how strong was the key relationship in the movie? Could Dennis Peck have basically uprooted it by doing Dennis Peck stuff? Would you leave the female character alone with Dennis Peck for 15 minutes?

1:01:30Bill Simmons:Could he get to her? I would say wholeheartedly yes in this case.

1:01:34Mallory Rubin:I think she was even kind of struck by Raymar. She was just like, this guy's throwing off some interesting energy. Yeah. That's a nice hair in that movie.

1:01:43Bill Simmons:A little spurn from the affair. Yeah. Still in the back of her head. She's always home alone.

1:01:47Mallory Rubin:Just kind of like this guy in his research paper.

1:01:49Bill Simmons:Yeah.

1:01:50Mallory Rubin:Dennis Peck comes over and hits the front door

1:01:52Bill Simmons:the next day. Hey, I heard there's some commotion over here. The fucking Stadies from Vermont. There's a fix the lock. Maybe calls a locksmith to deal with the door. Dennis Peck locksmith. What's a beautiful lady like you doing alone on a Saturday? My computer's on the fritz. An electrician to deal with the power surges. He's got his polo tucked into his jeans. He's just like Dennis Peck is locked in. Yeah. Anybody can blow up the marriage. I mean, obviously that's part of the point. This is easy. This is like child splitting.

1:02:17Mallory Rubin:Yeah, it's almost like this is spring training for this category.

1:02:21Bill Simmons:The thing for him would be he would probably not do it. Tantalize her that she thinks they're going to do it and then just keep it tortured. His bigger challenge would probably be going after Harrison Ford. I was going to say, it's really about getting Norman. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

1:02:37Mallory Rubin:Butch's girlfriend award for weak link of the film. What do you have? I got to say, I think they left a little bit on the table with Jodie. I think she could have been a little witchier and I think if you get me Laura Sangiacomo or Linda Fiorentina like somebody who could also you're just going

1:02:54Bill Simmons:sultry Italians well here's the thing

1:02:56Mallory Rubin:her admission that she has known that Norman has been cheating on her for a year is fucking not ride or die behavior terrible and would be like in any other movie or in another version of this movie you'd be like oh maybe Jodi and Norman have a little thing going or maybe she hopes they will. I had this as a picking. My wife had that pick as well. But if you throw somebody terrible friend, awful, awful. And the excuse of like, you know, the car accident and you were in such a state and Norman was in such a state. It's like, who gives a shit? If you know, my husband is fucking someone else. Tell me we're supposed to be best friends.

1:03:30But especially once I have asked you to start coming to my home to sit on the bathroom floor with a Ouija board and you know, I'm going through it at that point. Definitely.

1:03:39Mallory Rubin:Yeah. But Jody's also like, I got this car to pick up dudes. And it's like, I'm kind of, I'm kind of want to know a little bit more about that. And I would have loved a little bit of a suggestion that she had something for Norman. My, my,

1:03:50Bill Simmons:my butch's girlfriend was who the fuck is cheating on Michelle Pfeiffer? So, come on. All right. I have a question for you about this. Is there a way you can swing this to the other direction and say that this is actually kind of like, rather than being either inconceivable, which I agree, it is. He just has to have like a sex addiction. I'll accept that answer. There's a part of, like when you first confront it, it seems… Or like she's post, post, postpartum depression. It seems impossible that Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer, that their characters… I can't remember.

1:04:23Mallory Rubin:What does he say? He's like, we were having problems. Yeah. Yes. He's like, we were struggling. and that gives you an excuse to fuck your students. But is there a way you can swing this? Instead of saying like, okay, well, people, when you're married, you never really know another person. You watch this movie, you're like, oh my God, if like Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford can't figure it out, what hope do the rest of us have? I swing the other way with it. I think it's like a kind of positive, empowering thing when you're like, if even Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer are going through it, maybe we're all doing okay, actually.

1:04:56Bill Simmons:Right. It's a W for all of us. marriage is hard yeah exactly maybe you could get through the next Ravens-Broncos playoff game if it ever happens not in the same room not in the same room not in the same room no we can't oh no when we lived in New York and they played in the playoffs I took a train to Baltimore like and then more recently we watched in different rooms were you with Adam we make Halo pick between a mini helmet for the Flacco 80 yard touchdown game no I went to Baltimore oh so you didn't watch that with him no you stayed in New York and I went to Baltimore to watch with my dad and you stayed dating after that Well, we're still married.

1:05:28So, man.

1:05:30Bill Simmons:Believe it or not. That's a fucking traumatic game. I mean, that's like the most traumatic football loss of the last 15 years. I can't remember. What was that? For some. What was that Broncos team? It was the games over. Flacco throws basically a Hail Mary. Jacoby Jones. Jacoby Jones. Jacoby Jones. Miracle at Mile High. It's ridiculous. It's... Anytime it's on Twitter, I watch it. And I'm like, I just can't fucking believe he got behind the defense when they're on their own 20 with like 30 seconds left. Fantastic stuff. What's age the worst? We talked about a lot of this already. My big one was not recognizing immediately when your wife is possessed.

1:06:06Bill Simmons:Unless you think that he did, but he was kind of into it. Well, he does like knock her off of him at that point on to the floor. But there's like about two minutes there where you should know like, wait, what's going on? Yeah. Why are you acting like this? Yeah. Any other what's age the worst?

1:06:20Mallory Rubin:There's a very funny point when Norm takes the Spells and Incantations book and writes down on a legal pad, proposed suggestion, exorcism, dash, by fire, like with underlining by fire. That's great. It's just like a very funny cutaway for his note-taking process. And more, we've talked about the trailer, we talked about everything, but I just find this movie too unerotic to be considered an erotic thriller. And every time I start this movie, I'm like, oh, this is a really horny movie, and it's just not. Yeah, I never felt like it was an erotic thriller.

1:06:52Bill Simmons:I just felt like it was a safe, scary movie.

1:06:54Mallory Rubin:It sort of pitched that way in the trailer. Yeah, pitched that way in the trailer. In certain scenes, we get there. But I agree with you. I think, so this is where I'll come back to your constantly fucking the undergrads. Let's interrogate this. This is my what's aged the worst. Like you said, we've hit a lot of the other ones. The idea that it is rare for somebody to find Norman Spencer, played by Harrison Ford, attractive, is borderline disqualifying for the movie. It's that one line. And then out of nowhere, some bright young woman finds me attractive. like this has never happened. Yeah. Again, in Indy, the undergrads are lowering their eyes so that he can see written across their eyelids.

1:07:31I love you. Like, I want to fuck you. You get the sense that this should not be abnormal.

1:07:35Mallory Rubin:That Norman is scrambling though to like come up with things to say almost. That's the thing is that there's this Russian nesting doll of lies with him where it's like first it's no, I didn't do anything. Then it was she killed herself. Then it was I murdered her. So if you're really telling me that he only had this. And then it's I'll turn myself in. Yeah. Yeah. And then if you're telling me this is the one time this has happened, it's like, no, it's the one time he got caught.

1:07:55Bill Simmons:Possible serial killer. Do you think they all look Oh, Mal, you have a flex category. Oh. Okay. Let's see. We've done the, did the movie need a better sex scene? We've already talked about Cooper, so maybe not Brandy Booth time. Hmm. Should we talk about Cooper some more and do Brandy Booth? Let's do Brandy Booth. Or most gif-able moment? Oh, let's do that. Yeah, Fortune 3 Club. Let's do that. There's some gif-able moment. If this movie came out now, it would be like meme central. I would pick I would pick when Norman when she's in the tub and he what's that with the necklace and pulls her forward and then when he leans Claire back it's Madison's rotting dead corpse and he kind of like throws himself back hand acting again crashes into the mirror falls and hits his head.

1:08:41That would be my most gifable moment. Yeah.

1:08:43Bill Simmons:The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford.

1:08:47Mallory Rubin:Yeah.

1:08:47Bill Simmons:Could Luke Wilson have carried this movie CR?

1:08:49Mallory Rubin:I think he would have been an interesting Norman because I think he would have been like, you wouldn't have had, he's an attractive guy, but he's not like top five Hall of Fame all time hottest dudes ever where you're like, yeah, you would not have a crisis of confidence. That's so meaty.

1:09:03Bill Simmons:Honey, what's going on?

1:09:05Mallory Rubin:Why are you acting that way?

1:09:07Bill Simmons:That's really cool. Pretty good. Thanks, Craig.

1:09:10Mallory Rubin:My honest take, if we're being honest, Claire takes one look at Norman when he's sailing and all is forgiven. like that the fucking vibes he is throwing off on the boat he's got the dad hat on the barber jacket he's got his award for being a doctor let's go to an Arab let's go to a B &B and just like fucking leaf peep for a little bit like let's do this she's just like whatever Madison R.I.P. there's no way she's carrying this case any further I love this she's like I got it pretty good this guy's working on RNA vaccines you know like we got this great house he's got tenure I can cello around a little bit, work on the roses.

1:09:49Yeah, sure. He tells me I have to go to therapy, but the therapist gives me fireballs in the middle of the session. Like, it's not so bad.

1:09:55Bill Simmons:I like this. Like my house. Things are good. Yeah, great one. Who can say what happened? All right. Mine is,

1:10:03if you're going to kill me, don't do it in the same way you killed your mistress who you cheated on me with. It's just insulting.

1:10:12Bill Simmons:Oh, it's like a double whammy. This isn't even the hottest take. Find another way. Work a little harder. You know, and he's like, you had no idea how hard it was to hold her under the water. It's like, oh, so you did it in the bathtub. That's why she's not in the bathtub. You use the paralyzing agent. Like, come on, man. I'm your fucking wife.

1:10:29Mallory Rubin:Is it too sick for us to speculate on what would be an appropriate way to kill Claire? Let's do it right now. That's what the podcast is for. You might want to cut this out because it's going to sound sick, but like choke her with her own cello strings. A little more signature move. He was really, he was ready for this. He was ready for this. You had that ready. Yeah, the basement. Not that I had considered this,

1:10:50Bill Simmons:but that's just off the top of my head. Then it's like somebody would think when Dennis Peck comes over to try to solve the crime, he thinks it was like a former student. This is great. It's a good use of the basement too because we're sort of like presented with the basement like something really terrible is going to happen there and then it doesn't. Yes. This is a good possible category, murdering conciliary. If you're trying to figure out if it was the best possible way

1:11:11Mallory Rubin:they could have killed somebody. I like this. Buffalo Bill. Maybe like... Don't play with your food, you know? It's just like, let's get over with it. She got to size 12. We're good to go.

1:11:22Bill Simmons:You don't need a size 14 here, buddy. We have enough skin. He also just had the doctors, the paramedics, at the bathtub for the fake electrocution. It's like too much attention on the bathtub. This is just sloppy stuff from Norman. Mine, I went a little hotter than you guys. I think this is an even better don't have an affair could ruin your life movie than Fatal Attraction. I think this goes actually worse than it did Fatal Attraction, it's fine at the end Glenn Close is dead Everyone thinks it was her fault And he's back to the house he just got This is like Dream house, he put all this time in Kind of got away with it The fucking ghost, it was the one thing he didn't count on And then he ends up drowning In the lake With the ghost He ends up having to deal with that for the rest of his life It's just worse

1:12:10Mallory Rubin:Yeah, I mean, if I'm Norman, I'm really mad that the therapist did not make more progress with her. I mean, like, he had— Only a couple sessions. Yeah. That's what you love for a Vermont therapist. Only a couple sessions. Gotta take her to the city. She's gone to Burlington. As final resting places go, though, I mean, as stated, what a beautiful lake.

1:12:28Bill Simmons:It's tough, though. Really dark in the bottom of those lakes. You really feel like you're rotting away down there, too.

1:12:33Mallory Rubin:Not that I've considered that, either.

1:12:34Bill Simmons:Yeah, tough one. Casting what-ifs. We don't have any because Zemeckis is like, I want these two.

1:12:39Mallory Rubin:One of the first times in the history of this category, Harrison Ford turned down the perfect storm to do what lies beneath. So it winds up becoming a casting what ifs for perfect storm, really.

1:12:51Bill Simmons:And it ends up becoming a thank God because I think that Boston accent would have fucking twisted him around. Yeah.

1:12:57Mallory Rubin:He really had heart on for boats at this point. He was just like, I got to get on a boat. I don't care what... Maybe he was running a boat. Maybe he was running a boat. Loves a ranch. Yeah.

1:13:04Bill Simmons:Best that guy award. Who'd you have? I'd Ray Baker. Yeah, that's a winner. The James Remar Award for a movie with James Remar in it. He wins. James Remar. What about that guy?

1:13:16Mallory Rubin:But for Dion Waiters, would you go Joe Morton, this therapist? You don't think Jodie is Dion Waiters? I had Ghost Lady. Oh, Madison is Dion Waiters.

1:13:26Bill Simmons:No lines. Is Jodie in it too much to be Dion Waiters? I thought she was. I wish to commune. I think she's like the number four lead. Okay, interesting. So to us, of course, well, not to you, but to those of us who have seen The Lord of the Rings, Miranda Otto is Eowyn, obviously. But to you, are you like, Miranda Otto, oh, that guy. Because you don't have no relationship to Eowyn. You have no relationship to the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

1:13:50Mallory Rubin:You keep saying Eowyn. It's not going to ring a bell for Eowyn. She's a shield maiden of Rohan. Was that English? Yeah, she was one of the horse ladies. I just saw your lips moving. No, I just watched it over the break. Did you do the extended editions? No, they wanted me to just do the regular first. Come on, man. Really? You think I should have started with the extended? Who's they? Liz's two brothers who love these movies I watched them all though you should only watch extended editions from here back to back to back I watched in one day or how many one each day that's awesome give you credit for watching one of the three best trilogies ever made come on congrats thanks

1:14:25Bill Simmons:recasting couch director of City I like CR's Laura Gian Giacomo yeah I also as the as the friend

1:14:32Mallory Rubin:Lawrence Laura Gian Giacomo as Giacomo as Jody talk me through a couple of my ideas here for other directors. Okay. So obviously BDP. Get De Palma in there. That would be fucking great. That would be that would honestly be a lot better. Honestly, coming right out

1:14:49Bill Simmons:of Snake Eyes too. Pretty good move. A lot more like

1:14:51Mallory Rubin:long crane shots going from the Fuhrer's house back and forth to fuck scenes. Fight for quits though

1:14:59Bill Simmons:when he insists on the masturbation bathtub scene. That's right. She walks off the set. Sharon Stone's right there. She's in.

1:15:05Mallory Rubin:Another one?

1:15:06Bill Simmons:Fincher? That would also be amazing.

1:15:09Mallory Rubin:I mean, he basically, Panic Room is slightly his version of this. Yeah. And then the last one I was thinking of was Adrian Line. Oh. Getting horny. Yeah. Probably need worse actors. Yeah, supernatural horny. Yeah. I like all of those.

1:15:23Bill Simmons:Interesting. Yeah, with that one, you're probably going Richard Gere. He's available. Gere would be a great, Gere would be a great Norman. And then... Gere would be an amazing Norman. Gere would be a fucking great Norman. It's Kelly Preston. Uh. No. Probably too. No. Who's a good cellist? Oh. Who can I see being an amazing cellist? We'll come back to that. Uh, let's take a break and then Craig has a flex category. This episode is brought to you by Claude from Anthropic. You know that thing where you finish a movie and you immediately have to look up who directed it? What year it came out? How much money it made?

1:16:02Bill Simmons:Suddenly it's 1 a.m. Well, Claude is built for that kind of rabbit hole. deep research featuring digs across dozens of sources. Pulls it all together, cast connections, box office, contacts, production history, so you're not bouncing between 10 tabs, because that stinks. It thinks with you instead of just handing you a quick summary. Try it free at claude.ai slash rewatchables. This episode is brought to you by the ActiveCash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2 % cash rewards On purchases with it, big or small So whether it's buying tickets to the game And grabbing a coffee, it earns unlimited 2 % cash rewards on purchases Say it with me, the Active Cash Credit card from Wells Fargo Be a 2 %er, learn more at WellsFargo.com forward slash ActiveCash, terms apply I forgot, Craig already did this Flex category, so we'll go half-faceted research A shockingly Yeah, dismal amount of research on this movie.

1:17:04Bill Simmons:I was surprised. It made almost$300 million. Yeah. The only thing that I found that was interesting was Michelle Pfeiffer's fear of water and saying how she had to lie in a bathtub for like five hours at a time. That really made me think about what I would want as an actor at that point. Like, I'm sure they're wearing a bathing suit, but like, how warm would it have to be? Would they have to keep making it hotter? Yeah. Would your skin wrinkles? Yeah. Oh, of course. I just had a lot of questions. I was really interested in that. There's no other research. Well, what's the entertainment? Because, you know, when I'm in the bath.

1:17:38Mallory Rubin:Listening to the watch? I listen to the watch. That's what I do when I'm in the bath. Do you really? Genuinely. I will say, I don't know if I've shared this update with you. In the video podcasting era, it's like, even for me, maybe a degree too weird. But for years.

1:17:55Bill Simmons:So you're naked watching your friend Chris. No, she's naked listening to her friend Chris. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. just a relaxing evening in the tub you know do you fast forward the 8 minutes of foreplay at the top and go right to the show or do you go foreplay first those are my favorite 8 minutes

1:18:09Mallory Rubin:it's a 50-50 thing where it's like some people hate it and some people love it those are my favorite 8 minutes you guys are the entire spectrum of watch listenership listening to my favorite friendship but yeah so what podcast is Claire Spencer listening to you know if this is a period of time where there's podcasts

1:18:22Bill Simmons:oh she's definitely rerunning back Serial oh she yeah she's on she knows what happened she didn't know if she missed a couple things yeah yeah That's a spin on this is where instead of like this vibe, it's more like only murders in the building, you know? She's like, I've learned a lot from True Crime Podcasting.

1:18:38Mallory Rubin:Norman could have said something was wrong by looking at her wrapped. It's like, hey, Claire. A lot of a ghost is living with me.

1:18:45Bill Simmons:He sneaks out her phone and looks at her Instagram algorithm for the for you stuff. And he's like, what is going on? Why is your top bookmark missing persons? Everything's haunted or missing. Apex Mountain, Fyfer and Ford, no. Absolutely not. Ghost movies, no. No. Cheating Husband, Come Up in Smoothies, maybe. Reimar, no. Haunted House Movies, no. No. Zemeckis, no. No. Waterlogged Corpse, coming back to life and coming involved in the plot. I mean, there's some Pirates of the Caribbean horses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Right? Yeah, Caribbean. Do we have this in the finals for naked... Caribbean, sorry.

1:19:23Bill Simmons:Naked ghost bodies with The Shining? Oh, I think The Shining. When Jack looks in the mirror and all of a sudden it's like a gross lady. To me, that's like

1:19:31Mallory Rubin:a one versus 16 seed. Yeah. That's not even that close. Yeah, I didn't have any Apex Mounds. Cinematic Vermont. They could have done, I feel like this is a moment. It's not bad.

1:19:41Bill Simmons:Yeah. It's pretty good. I like it. Yeah. Bad or Grown Ups 2. Where'd they film Grown Ups 2? Where'd they film Grown Ups 2 on the top of my head? It's a good movie. You're the best. It's a big kids movie. Yeah. My kids love Grown Ups 2. We own it.

1:20:01Mallory Rubin:Cruiser Hanks. I have Hanks just because he's a Bobby Zemeckis. I'm shocked.

1:20:06Bill Simmons:I'm astonished. Hanks. Evil Hanks? Yeah. It's Zemeckis' guy. This is one of your worst. I hope this is your worst call of 2026. Yeah. I really do. Boy. I hope we've peaked right here. I mean. So clearly, Cruz. I'm getting double for this and not for I would have killed Michelle Pfeiffer with challenge No, that's why you're the best. That's why you're a legend. Think of all the things Cruz would want to do in this. It's obviously Cruz. He would want to turn evil at the end. Yeah. He would want to have like the sexy scene. For sure. He would want to have the scene when he realizes she's possessed and is trying to get away from her.

1:20:41Mallory Rubin:Yeah. I think Chris is right. Counterpoint. I think Chris is right. Cruz. What? I think it's Hank. Cruz has just done my fucked up marriage movie with Eyes Wide Shut. He's not going to go fucking do What Lies Beneath. That's a good point. This is exactly if Hanks was caring about like counter-programming his image. But he can't, yeah. If we're going to bring in the where are they in their real schedules, then Hanks is eliminated from consideration. Hanks didn't fucking do this movie and lose weight at the same time. What about the girl in the beard? Why can't Norman have a beard? I'm sorry, but when Claire is running her fingers through Norman's pectoral chest hair, you can't be like, you've been alone lancing your gums with an ice skate on an island.

1:21:23That's just not the vibe.

1:21:24Mallory Rubin:Well, Castaway, right? Yeah. Oh, true. Yeah. That's not... I guess Castaway. I don't think we should factor in the shooting schedules of these actors. He's the one who brought it up by saying he's not going to do fucked up marriages in a row. I'm trying to say Tom Hanks is doing the kind of counter-programming that Harrison Ford is doing in this film. If Tom Hanks is in this movie, it plays against everything we think about Tom Hanks. Sure. That's true. Tom Cruise coming off of Eyes Wide Shut. You're like, yeah that guy is a fucked up husband he does go to the fidelio parties tom cruise out crazies pfeiffer like exactly right hanks you you need that rare tie two to two tie i would never expect it from hanks and like you wouldn't expect it from your friend harrison ford that's right i

1:22:06Bill Simmons:could see cruise and doing the uh tour for this the media tour being like bob came to me just doing like the crazy energy demands to do his to do his own stunt from under the tarp of the the fucking boat to dive through. Yeah, there's tons of this. He would have had a water ski or something. Yeah, in the truck. Like, that would have been great. Scorsese or Spielberg? Spielberg. Well, Spielberg passed on it, right? He didn't want to do it. He did. This movie's in the Spielberg area.

1:22:33Mallory Rubin:There is a Cape Fear version of this movie that Scorsese does, but it's probably Spielberg is the answer here. New category. Hmm.

1:22:41Bill Simmons:Good hang, bad hang. I'm in. I present to you the Spencers. I think good dinner date, Hanks.

1:22:49Mallory Rubin:good dinner date I think Stan and Elena were a little bit more fun

1:22:54Bill Simmons:but think about who you going out with tonight the Spencers what happened with that lady she had that car accident I don't know she's off the rails

1:23:02Mallory Rubin:I hope she gets a couple drinks tonight I think I would like to go to a party with the Spencers a double date with them would be tough you wouldn't want to do dinner no it's just that Norman's going to be fucking whining about his dad and Claire's going to be like oh I'm kind of thinking about the ghost to my house. And it's like, you know, you need people to wrap up. It's a drag. Yeah, but then you get to drive home

1:23:19Bill Simmons:and talk about the Spencers.

1:23:21Mallory Rubin:Like, oh my God, how fucking crazy is Claire? I would rather have seen, we're at the cocktail party, Madison shows up, Claire blacks out. Talk to the Spencers for a while. Richard, fucking car accident. Like, that's something you talk about for the rest of the year. So you're saying Spencers, bad hang. Well, I thought we were going to do good hang, bad hang. The Spencers, like, would you rather hang out with Norman or Claire? I'm giving you the Spencers as a combo. The only way you want to hang out It's only a good hang if you're swinging. That's it. Unless they're up to swing. Like, do you think Norm...

1:23:53Bill Simmons:Like, swinging, like...

1:23:54Mallory Rubin:Swinging. Swinging. Between... Good hang. Getting strange... Great hang. And working on his paper. Do you think Norm's watched a single Sox game that summer? Yeah, where were the Red Sox in the background? It was the Trott and Troy season, right? 2000?

1:24:08Bill Simmons:2000. 99-2000? That was Carl Everett. Okay. That was when he bumped the umpire and the season went to hell. How was that, that game? God damn it Why do you do that?

1:24:18Mallory Rubin:Incredible

1:24:18Bill Simmons:That's probably That's probably

1:24:19Mallory Rubin:What drove Norm Over the edge

1:24:21Bill Simmons:Exactly I came home angry And immediately wrote a column For 7500 people Picky knits Oh my god There are so many We spent so much time On James Remar And then It's never heard from again 40 minutes into the movie Is that Yeah The red herring thing Do you like that Or do you wish he had Circled back in some way I think that they needed To pop up again

1:24:43Mallory Rubin:I think like

1:24:44Bill Simmons:Mary should have come over near the end. Mary should have saved her or something.

1:24:49Mallory Rubin:Maybe Mary comes in and Norman hits her and that's what makes it like Norman has to kill Claire now. I don't know. There needed to be something. I like that a lot.

1:24:57Bill Simmons:I think one of those two had to come in the house and be like, what's going on in here? And then gets hit by a candlestick.

1:25:04Mallory Rubin:Raymar's wife's hysteria at the beginning of the movie just kind of being brushed off as a normal. That was completely bizarre. Yes. It was too much of a red herring. Yeah. Well, I mean, it obviously sets up a big chunk of like her investigating that to ultimately realize that's not it. Picking it in that stretch though, on the real estate front, why are we peeking through the fence and standing on rocks to look over and slicing our wrists open? Once you realize that neither of their front lawns are gated in, it's like just around the fucking bed and be like, what's up? That's a great one. You okay?

1:25:38Because she is talking to her,

1:25:39Bill Simmons:so it's not like she's trying to obscure her watching it. That was bizarre. I had another one on that, like a logistics thing. Yeah. This guy's really smart, right? This doctor, Harrison Ford. But not as smart as his dad, but yeah. But really smart. Got through med school. He's a DuPont chair, not sure. He kills somebody and just dumps the stuff right over the dock. Yes. This is a huge one. He tosses it right off the dock. You want to walk 40 yards to the right? Just right over? Very sloppy.

1:26:05Mallory Rubin:But then Madison becomes like the Loch Ness Monster of Lake Champlain, right? Like, because she gets to the bridge too. That's the other thing. How much territory is she covering as a ghost? Well, the car is dumped because he says the boat entrance is where he took her to dump the car. Why is the ghost there? The jewelry box. So there's evidence in multiple locations. Why is the car under the bridge? I didn't understand that. Very sloppy. I don't know. It doesn't make sense. I don't know.

1:26:28Bill Simmons:You assume that he drove her off the bridge, right? No, no.

1:26:32Mallory Rubin:I thought he backed her in and let the car sink into the lake. Yeah. At the boat entrance, wherever that is. Killed her. But she's dead at that point. And he's just getting rid of the body. Yeah. Yeah. He's killed her in the tub. Yeah. And he, yes, he wheels her to the... Honestly, Norman, not a great murderer.

1:26:47Bill Simmons:No. Like, really slappy. And then again, runs it all back. The playbook, exactly. Exactly. It's like absurd.

1:26:52Mallory Rubin:Although maybe he was just like, this is... He's like Sirianni. He's like, no turnovers here. You know? He just wants to control the ball. Run the fucking ball. Nitpick is, where the fuck did Caitlin go? She goes, first day of college, she never checks in on our parents. she's never like kind of a weird vibe coming from mom right now like what's happening I haven't heard anything it's pretty early

1:27:14Bill Simmons:in the email stage but you still had email in 2000 she should be like hey mom what's the span of this movie is it like how long is this I thought it was a couple weeks a couple weeks because I thought

1:27:25Mallory Rubin:she's slowly losing it over days or weeks I think the whole like you even could say maybe it's like a what's aged the worst the whole like I've lost my mind because I'm an empty nester now and have no identity like not the most delicate portrait in the script. And I think that aspect, but I guess that's the answer. It's like, she has to convince herself, I don't need to call her all the time. Yeah. Right? Like, I don't need to check in.

1:27:49Bill Simmons:She's already lost her dad, Scott Carino. And now she loses her stepdad.

1:27:54Mallory Rubin:Like, how often would you call your folks from college? Once a week?

1:27:58Bill Simmons:Well, I didn't go to college in the email era, but I would have emailed them, or they would have emailed me. I feel like there would have been an email connection. Yeah. Early in freshman year, you're checking in. You're homesick. You're checking in.

1:28:09Mallory Rubin:I remember. I mean, like, I think I was calling, like, once every couple days. I have a nit to pick with Madison as a ghost. Okay.

1:28:20Bill Simmons:She was on my list as well. I have an unenunciable question for that category, which we'll get to, but on the nitpicking front, the amount of time she's taking to repeatedly type her initials, MEF, MEF, MEF, MEF, MEF, MEF. I can't do better. Type out, your husband fucked me, killed me, and disposed of my body, and I have returned to you in paranormal form to tell you this. Why is Madison typing her initials? It might be ghost rules like Swayze and Ghost, where you can just kind of push. It's just very inefficient. Well, then type, like, we're getting on the mirror, you know. Type, he did it. Come on, Madison.

1:29:01Put in a little more work here.

1:29:03Bill Simmons:Why not just write Madison over M.E.F.? I know. Yeah. Absurd. Absurd. I don't believe that's a function of a not great script more than it is something I believe Madison the Ghost would do. I had a Coop one. Where is Coop in the last 40 minutes of this movie? Well, I mean, and also why?

1:29:22Mallory Rubin:His parents are fighting.

1:29:23Bill Simmons:I think he's in and out of the house a lot.

1:29:26Mallory Rubin:It seems like because when he disappears that night, she's just like, have a year away. She yells his name once from the porch. Honestly, that's Murph.

1:29:32Bill Simmons:there's no deaths in that house. Murph's protecting everybody. He's on it. Where'd he go? The Murph that wouldn't have liked any of that the bathtub drowning never happens with Murph. Yeah. Yeah. Murph's

1:29:43Mallory Rubin:CPR.

1:29:44Bill Simmons:He would have like clawed the water to make the bathtub go down. A compress on any wound. What about the paralysis drug by the way? What drug is that? That her feet were kind of working? Yeah. Is it six minutes? We learned earlier in the film it's three to five. Right? So then he's like oh it's wearing off. and then gets the pill bottle because he's going to stage the suicide. Again, terrible murder. Brutal. And he's using something from his own place of work that could, I assume, be traced to him. But again, maybe he's like, well, they gave up on Madison pretty quickly. They're not going to really look into this, but it's defensible.

1:30:18While she's got the drug fading out of her system, this is one of my big picking nits. I am not a physicist. Vectors, angles, etc. It's not my specialty. However, I feel confident in saying nothing we're doing with the foot to pull the cord that way. And certainly the shower head, lifting the cord of the shower head. Yeah, that's hard to do when you're not paralyzed. To turn the hot water knob. I just don't believe any of that would be possible in that state or at all. I agree. She should have died. She should have drowned. That's how the movie should have ended.

1:30:53Bill Simmons:Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. All black cast, I'm not against. Sure. I did think that. On Tubi, I might give that a whirl. This would be like a good prestige TV, like an eight episode Apple season.

1:31:06Mallory Rubin:You'd have to have the year before. You'd have to have like the... You'd almost have to have the affair. Do you get any flashbacks? Well, it depends on how much you want to get into the supernatural part versus what you want to do with Norman and his affairs. What don't I want to do with Norman?

1:31:21Bill Simmons:Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Buffalo Bill, Fergie the Florist, Byron Mayo, Dan Orlovsky, or William Brimley and the Firm?

1:31:27Mallory Rubin:I like the idea of Fergie from the town being like, you're gonna do this for me. You're gonna dump you in the lake just like I dumped Madison. I did her the chemical way.

1:31:41Mallory Rubin:Gave her a Harrison Ford taste. Yeah. Oh, she doped up good and proper.

1:31:51Mallory Rubin:I love Forgot of the Floors so much. Forgot of the Floors is one of my faves. You don't want Wayne there as local law enforcement? We retired, Wayne. Checking in on Madison? Wayne is Wayne is what a tragedy Wayne blew his knee out Wayne had a four year run yeah he was that girl Campbell yeah he transferred a couple of times Wayne's going to Indiana now

1:32:14Bill Simmons:I'm not going to do her left scan I enjoyed Fergie the Florist just one Oscar who gets it I don't know definitely Pfeiffer I think no question I would do Zemeckis Don Burgess I had Zemeckis but I don't think this is an Oscar movie Well, no, certainly not. Probably unanswerable questions. We already talked about why would anyone ever fuck with the Ouija board? And then I wrote down, Claire, number one movie character widow catch ever. Whoa. You get the house. She still looks great. Trust issues, though. Major trust issues. Scarred by last relationship. Apparently. You can win that back and really build her back up.

1:32:48Mallory Rubin:No further questions from law enforcement about what happened. True, true. Free to visit the gravesite.

1:32:54Bill Simmons:Got a new necklace she's wearing. Looks great at parties. vindicated by her in the community because people now realize her husband was driving her crazy. You're not worried about the trust issues calcifying. No. I mean, on a scale of one to Tiger Woods' wife, I think it's like a 9.2.

1:33:12Mallory Rubin:Shout out to Ellen.

1:33:13Bill Simmons:Come on, Craig. Tiger Woods' wife.

1:33:15Mallory Rubin:Yeah.

1:33:15Bill Simmons:I hadn't thought about her in a while. Inheriting like$700 million in the settlement plus looked great. Yeah. She's really kept under the radar. Which one?

1:33:27Mallory Rubin:Ellen, Tiger's ex Yeah Great job by her Like where's she at? She's spending Tiger's money Yeah I had a couple of unanswerables Yeah Same If Norman had just been like Sounds great, let's go to Adamant Yeah Love that place He would've been fine Is he fine? Yeah, he's fine I think she's never letting it go But he buys more time He buys more time Is Claire's supernatural experience All a side effect of Jodi's mushroom tea That she gives her In the beginning of the movie How does she pronounce it? I can't remember. Kambuka. Kambuka. Which is not correct. That's a wild moment in the movie.

1:34:02Bill Simmons:So now are they doing like 2.5 mushrooms or 5.5? She's microdosing. Yeah, they're microdosing for sure. Yeah, can't really talk about this. Claire microdosing would be great, actually. I would enjoy that. There is a lot.

1:34:13Mallory Rubin:There's a lot of story to tell here. There is. Mika Clark should run it back after all. Why did Madison's…

1:34:18Bill Simmons:I was offered a.25 gummy on New Year's Eve and turned it down. Because I'm bad at drugs. Of psilocybin? I'm just not good at drugs anywhere. Yeah. You don't like an edible? Not good at drugs anywhere. Had a great run.

1:34:29Mallory Rubin:I think you should just hold out until you go into a big blow era.

1:34:33Bill Simmons:You know? Yeah, just right to cocaine. Supposedly coming back. Yeah. Yeah? That's what I heard. Yeah. We're in the street. Tell us more, Craig. Why did Madison's ghost wait one year to start haunting Claire and Norman? Why the delay?

1:34:49Mallory Rubin:No, she had to get unlocked, right? Didn't? Well, eventually we built her like the braid. That's another unanswerable question is like, why is there a lack of her hair? But she's haunting her before then, right? So what is the, why one year? The braid we left up for sure. But why are these, like, do we think Claire was just missing these signs until this point in time and they'd been there? Or Madison was like, I'm chilling in the lake decomposing for a year and now I'm going to start filling your bathtub. That's the first time the tub has been full. How much is her perception heightened by the fact that she's not concentrating on her daughter.

1:35:23Mallory Rubin:It's, yeah, it's good. Yeah, maybe she wanted Caitlin. Wait till Caitlin, maybe that's it. Wait till Caitlin leaves, right? No innocent bystanders. I like that. Okay. What if, this is a big unanswerable question for me. What if the Spencers, and if I'm Norman, I definitely do this in the renovation because I've killed my mistress in that tub, have just a stall shower. What if there's just a freestanding shower, a shower, right? A glass shower. No bathtub. tub. How does Madison work her magic then? What tub is she filling? I don't know. There's not one to fill. What does she do? Where are we seeing the reflection?

1:35:57Obviously, we have mirrors. We have other surfaces. But the tub is so central to how she's able to haunt them. What if Norman had had the foresight to say, I killed somebody here. I'm gonna make that part of the renovation. Yeah.

1:36:10Bill Simmons:Just goes shower only. Yeah. Something they should have thought about. It's one of the many reasons he was a terrible murderer. Awful. Bad husband, bad murderer. He comes up in my Coach Finstock Mr. Miyagi Award for best or worst life lesson Yeah Norm, if you're going to go through all this hullabaloo to kill your mistress Yeah Figure out a better place to dump all of her stuff with the necklace I know we mentioned earlier but it has to be mentioned a second time That can't be in front of your doc It's absurd And also like right in front of your dock. It's not like he took a boat, swam out, and threw it.

1:36:51Bill Simmons:He could have just been like,

1:36:52Mallory Rubin:I'm taking a ferry to Fort Ticonderoga. You know, whatever. Yeah. I mean, he has a boat. That's right. He has a fucking boat. Yeah.

1:37:00Bill Simmons:You could throw that anywhere. Like, there's no reason not to Ripley it. What piece of memorabilia... Ripley. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? I'd obviously want the Scott Carino photos. Oh, yeah. Of course. I would definitely frame them and give them to Jeff Gallo for Christmas.

1:37:13Mallory Rubin:I'd like Good Jeans, the boat that he's got. But if not, I'd take his outfit from the boat. Is it in the era of Sidney Sweeney, you're going good jeans? Interesting. Well, the boat itself is really nice.

1:37:25Bill Simmons:To me, it's him backing Sidney Sweeney.

1:37:28Mallory Rubin:It's me sailing against cancel culture. As you tend to. As you tend to.

1:37:32Bill Simmons:Queen Sidney is back, by the way. Handmade, too. Already greenlit. Yeah. Housemaid. Housemaid. Different vibe for Handmade.

1:37:41Mallory Rubin:She's in Handmaid's Tale. It's all right. You're not picking the braid? You don't want Madison? I do not want to ghost breed. Did you guys see Housemaid?

1:37:48Bill Simmons:I haven't. Nor will I be. No interest. It is horrible. Is it? Seems terrible. Yeah. It's like really awful. Doing really well. Well. It's really awful. It's terrible. It's poor. So it's not going to be a rewatchable. It's not going to be an Easter rewatchable. You're just making sure you don't get on the poster there. It is like shockingly bad. I was stunned by how bad it was. Wow. That's awesome. Watched every minute of it. It's because it's like it's a From Hell movie. Did you go to the theater to see it? No, it's on the PGA app. Okay. Which was funny in itself. Like, I don't know what award I thought it was getting nominated for.

1:38:28Bill Simmons:Costume design? Congratulations to everyone involved.

1:38:34Bill Simmons:Best double feature choice. You could go Baker Boys in this movie as like a little bookend.

1:38:42Mallory Rubin:You know what you talked me into is Panic Room. That's fun. I like that. Stuck in the house? I would either want to do Ford actually is the bad guy and pair it with Mosquito Coast or a more ambiguous property of like part of the journey of discovery is is he guilty or not guilty and pair it with either the fugitive or presumed innocent.

1:39:00Bill Simmons:Some people wanted us to do who lost the movie before who won the movie. But I think that's who lost the movie is going to be too hard. Too negative. It's a category. Yeah. Not really. I like these movies.

1:39:11Mallory Rubin:I would say, yeah, we can pass on that category. I was going to say who won the movie I would say Zemeckis might have lost this one just because he comes back with Cast Away and everything and I understand not Agent Phil Coulson Clark Gregg I mean this made 300 million dollars

1:39:24Bill Simmons:I'm sure he feels like he was a dub I just feel like he doesn't I don't like who lost the money yeah we'll know when it's the right time to do that who won the movie though Pfeiffer I think Pfeiffer Michelle yeah Craig Rock Solid enjoyed it oh we're off to a good side yeah Rock Solid it's a great movie

1:39:43Mallory Rubin:to discuss right after it ends because there's so many red herrings that don't tie up. Like the four of us, the four people that I watched with, we just like talked about it for a half an hour being like, so wait, why did he try to kill himself in the tub? Why did he fake the death in the tub? What was up with the neighbor? I do think, I don't love the end of this movie. I do think the end kind of drops this from an eight to a seven. I think like reanimating her in the water was unnecessary. I think they could have ended it at the house. Yeah, or it's like, I don't mind her showing up on the bridge and causing things to drive off.

1:40:14Mallory Rubin:But adding her below, like physically ripping him down, I don't know. It went a little too far there, I feel like. But the other thing is I don't like seeing evil Harrison Ford. I just don't. We need a category for like, that's my friend. I hate this. Yeah. No. You know? Please don't. That's why it's great, though. He's my pal. I don't want to see him evil. I don't want to see him killing women. But they're like weaponizing your expectation that he's indie. I completely get it. That he's Decker. That he's Han Solo.

1:40:39Bill Simmons:So what's the Tom Cruise movie for that? Please don't do this. He's my friend.

1:40:44Mallory Rubin:like could you do this for every great actor like what's like your favorite actor what's the movie they're in where you're like oh don't do that don't do that to them

1:40:50Bill Simmons:for Tom Cruise it was Interview with a Vampire I just thought he sucked in that movie you know

1:40:56Mallory Rubin:like me seeing Harrison Ford in this I'm like ugh that's my guy I hate watching this I'm trying to think of like a Colin Farrell movie where I'm like oh please not not like this honestly I this is one of the reasons why I'm like that's the name of the category not like this I don't actually I think one of the reasons why I had a hard time watching The Penguin is I was like, this is my guy. Yeah. Dude, he's dynamite in that. But I just want him to be beautiful. You know, he's Colin Farrell.

1:41:22Bill Simmons:You want him to be a fiend for Mahito. Oz Cub is a lot of things, but beautiful is not one of them. Trying to think what Denzel's not like this movie is.

1:41:30Mallory Rubin:Roman J. Esquire? What was that?

1:41:32Bill Simmons:Oh, Roman J. Israel? Yeah.

1:41:34Mallory Rubin:Yeah.

1:41:35Bill Simmons:Yeah. I didn't like that movie that much.

1:41:37Mallory Rubin:Also, you bringing up Housemaid, not Handmaid, Housemaid. Housemaid. I feel like really bad what this movie like this movie has two A-listers in it right now the movie Housemaid I guess Sydney Sweet and Amanda Seyfried are big names but they don't the B-movie with the A-listers doesn't happen anymore not as much now like for this movie to be remade now with the same star power it would be like Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway in this movie which would be awesome but they just don't do that anymore and I enjoy the B-movie with the A-lister but it's more rare now because they won't do it

1:42:13Bill Simmons:Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway and What Lies Beneath is exactly what 2025's version of this movie would be.

1:42:19Mallory Rubin:But they needed, like, it would either be a Christopher Nolan movie, which would be like, this is$300 million or whatever. Or it would be... And it's about time. A B movie that goes to streaming. Or it's like really small indie A24 and there's like something less, much more dark and upsetting and serious about it. It's not just like a, you know, a ghost story.

1:42:38Bill Simmons:You know who they couldn't do that with? Lombard Jackson and John Harbaugh because they don't work together anymore. They fired him. I think it was the right decision. Because you're a rookie kicker. Well, it's not Tyler Lips' fault. You went two yards backwards to make a kick harder on him. It's not Tyler Lips' fault. He's innocent in all of this. Time out. Fireable offense. For the kicker or for the coach? For the coach. Well, guess what? He got fired. Time to go. Not for that, I think. What are you trying to center the ball for, you dumbass here in Pittsburgh on a night game? Time for some fresh blood and new ideas.

1:43:09Bill Simmons:Did you have a problem with that in the moment? Then the 12 seconds with the timeout? Yes. You did. Who doesn't? Pittsburgh's a house of horrors. Nobody likes getting a field goal ever in Pittsburgh. I texted my dad when we—

1:43:19Mallory Rubin:The Danis disagreed. I thought, as a Steelers fan, I was like, I'm thrilled they're not trying to get five more yards right now. Losing yards, absurd. Not trying to gain any yards, absurd. I texted my dad in real time, and I said, Ghost of Billy Quindeth. Which, of course, was even more dire in a number of respects.

1:43:32Bill Simmons:That one was worse, though, because Lee Evans had the ball and Sterling Moore, who was like this— Well, the situation, I mean, it was a closer kick. The greatest strip ever.

1:43:40Mallory Rubin:I still think it's really funny because Derwin James is going to like break Drake May's sternum now. Jesus. He's just like, let's play with the Raven some more. It's like, it's definitely just, you're seeding it. You're seeding it. It's going to be your fault.

1:43:55Bill Simmons:I think it's going to be Jacksonville that gets us. Okay. Jacksonville. Interesting. We'll see. CR, pleasure as always. Mal, the pleasure was mine. Craig, thank you. Gahau, pleasure. Eduardo, wherever you are, thank you. Oh, Eduardo and I go head-to-head this weekend. Who knows? We might not even be talking by the time people hear this. That's right. Rewatchables. Thank you, everybody.

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