‘Wild Things’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Mallory Rubin

25:39And then there are going to be way more people who would be baffled by that. Right? Right. But Rue, for Zendaya is... You spend six hours with Rue every five years. But that's Zendaya's version of being taken seriously as an actress, of giving you something a little darker. Because before then, Zendaya is on Disney. and then Zendaya does Dancing with the Stars when she's like 17, trying to get herself out there. I totally forgot that. Yeah, of course. She was like 17, she's on Dancing with the Stars, trying to get herself out there. I saw a clip of that recently. Then she does music for a while and she's still existing in youth culture.

26:15Like she's young, pretty Disney Zendaya, then Spider-Man, then she goes, let me show that I'm a grownup and she does the root character. See, this could have happened to Jason Priestley and Luke Perry. They just weren't stuck doing 32 episodes a year on 90210. God only knows how many movies they were doing. How could you say that about your most sacred text? Luke Perry tried. Luke Perry did try. But Euphoria, all of those people became stars that were good on the show because they didn't have to do the show that much. All, like, Luke Perry ended up finding himself creatively later on in life, because that's, like, actually aid number one.

26:48Like, he's good. These guys had their chances. Remember the terrible Calendar Girls movie with Jason Priestley in it? They didn't have it. No, you're probably right. They had their chances. Like, Jason Priestley... great college quarterbacks that just couldn't couldn't play in the NFL Gino Toretta yeah like Zendaya is one of our most talented and capable performers so that's not actually a comp for any of the things Lindsay Lohan was another one that started she came out of that Disney universe and actually Parent Trap one of the best movies ever made she actually was able to parlay it but a lot of those like all the shows my kids watched none of those kids really ended up kids that I thought were good actors when I watched the show like Jesse and the all the shows you wouldn't know well some of them I mean, Miley, I guess, Lizzie McGuire.

27:31Some of these people got good stuff going on. Miley can be as an artist, yeah. But I'm talking like people that started out on those things and then became actual actors. Denise Richards, Seinfeld, memorable Seinfeld appearance as the daughter of an NBC executive. And she's bending over and George looks at her cleavage and it almost sabotages the pilot. She was in Melrose Place for a couple episodes as Lonnie Anderson's daughter trying to do a scheme on Dr. Michael Mancini. That happened. She was in Starship Troopers. That's right. Of course. A beloved movie. Absolutely. She was in Drop Dead Gorgeous and then Wild Things was when this really kicked off.

28:10And then everything culminated. She's in The World Is Not Enough in a Bond movie and she plays like a nuclear physicist or something. Nuclear physicist. And somehow isn't named after the category we have because we named after Elizabeth Shue. Shocking. Dr. Christmas Jones. That was another good one. Denise Richards. And then she got Charlie Sheen. She met Charlie Sheen when her career was never the same. Do you watch Million Dollar Listing LA? Or did you watch it when it was on? No. Oh, great real estate show. I'm surprised you didn't watch it. Denise Richards was on it last season as a friend of one of the brokers, Josh Flack, just appeared in an episode.

28:46Really? Yes. I was like, oh my God, it's Denise Richards. I saw her, the Charlie Sheen documentary, which I did not like but she was in that. But yeah, this was it. This was a really hot, she flew very close to the sun in one movie and that's kind of where it ended. I was going to save this for Apex Mountain but let's do it now. I'm going to ask you guys now. Emerging from a swimming pool in a bathing suit, sopping wet. Is it this or Phoebe Cates? No. It's probably this. It's probably this. I'll tell you what. I would say it's Phoebe Cates. Interesting. Phoebe Cates from a cultural unpack but this is like I mean well this is one A and one B for that scene for that type of scene it's emerging from the swimming pool is probably that might be a tie I thought you meant whether or not this was the apex mountain of Phoebe Cates or the apex mountain of Denise Rich no specifically for emerging from a pool and your suit is clinging to we need more people emerging from pools yeah it's probably Phoebe Cates yeah great don't hate on Jessica Biel in Summer Catch Oh, yeah.

29:53I mean, talk about a great movie. Talk about a seminal movie in my youth. Then we have Matt Dillon, who was a big up-and-comer in the 80s for a while and led a bunch of movies and was right at the forefront of that. Timothy Hutton, Cruise, all those guys. He was probably the most successful guy for a while. Outsiders had a big role. just like from a felt like he was going to be the most famous died down a little came back in the mid 90s to die for beautiful girls in and out 98 wild things and there's something about Mary in the same year it's just astonishing great job by him one of the leading tweeners oh yeah tweeners like what happened to a lot of these guys and Kevin Bacon is in that crew too is the ceiling got set so fucking high yeah by Hank Banks and Cruz and Brad Pitt.

30:45And then the guys right under that ceiling, if you're talking about like Bruce, it was just an enormously high ceiling that there was a group of tweeners that you could really rely on to give you good performances and good movies. Rob Lowe's in there, I think, too. Rob Lowe to a degree. Judd Nelson for two years. Judd fucked it up. Absolutely. Judd fucked it up. But like a lot of, for a while, Emilio Estevez was in there for a while. He's still there for me. But to me, all of those guys in there, who was the best of those guys that would lead those types of movies, leading movies, but not like A-plus list movie stars?

31:21He was way up there. This is the perfect use of him. And really, this is the perfect year for him because he gets to be so funny and there's something about Mary. But in this movie, it's like he is handsome enough and enough of a leading man to be convincing, not only in the... You think of the opening stretch of the film where you kind of, the camera's initially like his eyes and then we move to the back of his head and every one of the students is looking at him and they all want to fuck him and you're like, oh, he can have this effect on people. But he's also a little off enough, like just a little creepy enough that you buy every subsequent situation and reveal across the film.

32:01Then you believe it when you get the line from Ray, like in the Jimmy scene, you know, he didn't have to work his way through college on a boat. Like he was there on an athletic scholarship at Miami, you believe that. So you kind of think that he's enough of a creep to be fucking his students and become embroiled in this plot. But he's also kind of funny in like a very under the radar way. It's like charming, kind of funny. You understand how everyone in Blue Bay falls for him. He was a great villain in My Bodyguard. Oh, yeah. Which is an awesome movie that is probably too old now to do. You know what that movie is?

32:36No. He's the villain. he's like a high school bully and this kid who's getting bullied by him hires this kind of big scary kid to be his bodyguard and it's just really good and Matt Dillon was like a great villain in it I would think about guys like Matt Dillon like cause you know for a long time I felt like Nicolas Cage was kind of in that purgatory and then Leaving Las Vegas comes out and you go well no like there's more coming on here yeah yeah like there's there's more to him but like this role is perfect for him because the character can't really be anything. He's never what we think that he is.

33:14He's actually the subversion of the erotic thriller guy from earlier in the decade. Earlier in the decade, the erotic thriller was take beautiful, crazy beautiful lady, put them with the most straight-laced male, and then watch this lady's sexuality sort of corrupt this guy. Yeah, it's like playing on our expectations that he could actually be the leading man, but isn't. But he isn't. At the end, he's basically the pansy, not the, what's the word I'm looking for? Patsy? Patsy. Patsy. Patsy. I couldn't find it. The Patsy of the entire film. He's just handsome enough to have everybody want to fuck him, but he's also dumb enough to be duped.

33:52To be played. To be outmaneuvered by a high school student. Kind of looks like Craig a little bit. Yeah, I can see that. I see it. Tiny bit. Yeah, it's great. I don't know where I'm going either. I could turn bad. You don't know. How do you feel about sailing? I like sailing. Yeah? You gotta work a winch? Guess what? No, I'm waiting for it. For my turn? I'm waiting for your dog's time to be revealed. I know it's in there. That's it. Sailing class. I know it's in there. I was just sailing at my college. Hey, Craig. Yeah? I don't buy it. Your whole act. Your whole thing. Don't get nervous. Don't get nervous.

34:26I'm watching you, Craig. I want to let you know right now. I've been on to you since the start. I don't buy it, Craig. I will say Ever since American Gangster when I was like he should have shot him in the head Oh no, shot him in the heart Shot him in the heart so you can see him and watch him die I know what's happening The recent reveal on the fantasy show that you've been an extra on a bunch of movies but can't remember what they were No I didn't remember which fast movie it was Serial killer stuff No Can I give you a Matt Dillon? There's something you want to I understand Matt Dillon I think the issue with his career and it was a great career Was He's a lot I mean he was He was nominated for an Oscar.

35:04Talk about his prime. Crash became like his, that's part of the problem. Yep. But this, that was one of our only rewatchables roasts that we've done. Here's the thing. He was the original choice for Butch in Pulp Fiction and couldn't do it or turned it down and ended up going to Bruce Willis. Man. And I think he needs that. He might have had another thing. It might have been I can't do it or I'm already committed to this other piece. I think that really would have been good for him. And then Kevin Bacon's the last one we got to talk about. Yeah. You know, at this point, I think Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon existed.

35:42In 98? Because he had been in so many movies. I'm going to say late 90s, it kind of started. Yeah. Everybody liked him. He'd been in a bunch. He kept having resurgences. And he's another tweener, like what Van was just talking about. He was like, he had his moment with Footloose. He was always at his best as like the second, third, Scotty Pippen type guy. and this was like perfect for him. And then we're going to talk about him more later. And then the random one was - When was River Wild, 94? Yeah. The random one was Bill Murray being in this. It's astonishing. Which was just stupefying. It's astonishing.

36:11Did you know he was in this, Craig? No, no idea. What was your reaction? He was delightful. I thought he was so good in it. I really enjoyed him. Really strange. He changed the tone of the movie in a nice way. It radically changes the tone of the movie. It's one of the more emblematic things of like, I don't quite know how the movie gets away with something that jarring as a shit inside of it, but it is delightful. Yeah, I loved him. It's difficult if you weren't around then. Bill Murray is now, of course, but even more so then, was just a massive, massive, huge, gigantic star and a comedy staple.

36:50This is post-Groundhog's day. This is the motherfucker from Ghostbusters. He already had his second run in the early 90s. So, yeah, he's back. To see him in the movie, it almost, in some way, gave the movie an odd credibility. Like, this is... Yeah, I was trying to think, who would be the person right now in this movie that would have the Bill Murray bump? That would, like, bump the movie in a way? Like, if Will Ferrell was the detective, you'd be like, whoa, Will Ferrell, what's he doing in this? Yeah, that's a good one. But it's, like, someone, maybe even, like, a little more famous than Will Ferrell.

37:21I wish Will Ferrell... like 2011 or 2012. I wish more stars did this because apparently he was just buddies with the director of this movie and he was like, can I have me in it? And they're like, sure. And 10 minutes of a star just being like, you know what, I don't need to get $10 million to do this. I'll just go in and have fun. It makes the movie so much better. But I've always said this is what I wish people like Cruise and a couple others had just been like, yeah, I'll show up for a week and film five scenes and get out. He's like 20 minutes in the movie, right? Yeah. And it actually, like, it's funny to look back and see that Kevin Bacon has lead billing on the movie, which like, right, I guess in terms of his celebrity and his stature makes sense.

37:54But in terms of the role of Ray Duquette in the film really doesn't make sense at all, actually. But Bill Murray, you do kind of forget he's in the film until you go watch it. There's so many delightful little things that kind of prep you subtly, even though the tone is really out of sync with the rest of the movie for like what we're watching. You know, the fact that he's wearing the fake neck brace is like, oh, I don't have to wear it all the time. The insurance guy was here earlier. And then you go back to his office and you pan the wall. It's like all of his clients thanking him in their fake crutches and their fake braces because he's like, I'm running cons.

38:24So even though the fifth stinger, you know, the reveal that he was in on it with Susie the whole time was apparently like added late, which is one of the more shocking nuggets about this movie, you're actually maybe most prepared the entire time for him to be revealed as a part of the plot because he's like a scumbag. He's a con man. And also, it's Bill Murray. Yeah. So the whole time that you're looking at the movie, at least for me, you're like, I'm waiting for the reason why he's in the movie. But that's what's weird about it is that apparently wasn't why he was there. He wasn't brought in to be the big reveal at the end, handing over a briefcase to cash.

39:04So you're here, maybe we should do it. He just wanted to do it. It's like asking somebody to join the rewatchables. Yeah, sure. I'm free Friday. I'm available. Bill Murray's like, he literally, the director was John McNaughton, who they did Mad Dog and Glory with Robert De Niro which is a weird movie but that guy did Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer which was one of the scariest movies I've ever seen in the theater especially because I have not seen that film and will not be seeing that film legitimately not for me legitimately unsettling I saw it's a pass for me like a legitimately I went through this thing when I was a kid when I wanted to see every movie that was rated NC-17 like when I first found out about NC-17 if I saw NC-17 I just grabbed it you had to see it of course legitimately unsettling movie.

39:46That's why Michael Rooker for a long time couldn't deal with it. Interesting. Yeah, because he's the legitimately unsettling movie. I've said this before, but I saw it in Boston at the Kenmore Theater by myself, and there was like six, seven other people by themselves. And like halfway through the theater, you start kind of doing this. Like, is this how I'm going to die? Is somebody here getting ideas? They're like, I'm going to watch half of this movie, then kill somebody. So he's It is having fun stage here because he's in Kingpin, Wild Things, Rushmore, Bill Murray is just doing it. He's like, yeah, sure, I'll do this.

40:23We'll take a break and then there's a couple other things we had talked about before we get to the categories.

40:44automatically earn up to 20 Euro per medication, for returns and other products. Heart the idea? Then try it in the Shop Apothe transaction app.

41:14a closing credits where then they kind of explain the movie. Yeah. The version of the movie you're watching, they want you to experience it a certain way and then it's over and you're like, oh, I know. Now I know it was Neve Campbell. Right. And then they're like, no, actually, we're going to go backwards. Here's some other stuff that now we're going to... And I've never seen that work. I can't believe it worked because I love it. I love the closing credits. I will... I would say that like a key performer in a film coming out in interviews and saying, basically, every time we went to act out a scene, we had to be reminded of what our characters' motivations were and what was happening when because the plot was so deranged and convoluted and full of twists and turns that we couldn't remember who we were supposed to be, why we were supposed to be doing what we were doing.

41:58It's maybe beyond borderline disqualifying for the plot and script of the film. Just part of the lore here. It just makes us love it more. It's like the absurdity and the fact that like simultaneously nothing about the story holds up to scrutiny, but also the fact that it doesn't hold up to scrutiny is part of its charm. Like, they're just, they're fueling the myth. because there's like a hundred nitpicks in this. I only have one nitpick. One real, we'll get to it. It's more about us. A question for us. Exciting. There's only one other movie that when I was thinking about this that I thought about that towards the end of the film, the twist, then you go back through the film with the character and it changes, Angel Heart.

42:36Oh, Lou Cipher. Lou Cipher. And then you realize that he's actually killed all of these people and then he's on the elevator to hell and he's realizing it. You're spoiling New Orleans month. Oh, my bad. Yeah, New Orleans month. But in a real way, the movie is effective in doing the same thing for every character. Making a hero, then making a villain, then making a hero, and then making a villain. By the end of this film, the biggest victim in the entire movie is Kelly. Kelly Van Ryn. Kelly Van Ryn. Because she is doing everything that she's doing just because she's in love with the older guidance counselor at her school who has manipulated her.

43:25I can't tell in the movie whether or not Neve Campbell's character is the hero or the villain. Because she's the, she gets treated like a piece of shit because she's from the wrong side of the tracks. So she's taking it out on all of these upper crust people. But at the same time, she really fucks over a lot of people and kills them all. And McNaughton liked that though. He was like, who wins in the end? The girl in the trailer park. Yeah. I think the movie's point of view is that she's the hero and that like she managed to take out all of these people who in some way contributed to like her plight.

43:56Right. Yeah. He said some of us had parents who insisted their children have an education, go to college, escape all that. Other ones, parents didn't care if their kid dropped out of school. That's where my heart always is. There you go. there with the trailer parks um kevin bacon said the script was the trashiest thing you ever read couldn't wait to do it craig century club this movie's 108 minutes it's a it's a plus i guess it's a minus eight for you what do you think wonderful score um no no no it's perfect 108 yeah you wouldn't cut eight no i i i have problems with i think there should have been an extra 60 seconds in this movie that I was promised that was not there.

44:40Well, did you watch the unrated extended cut? Well, I thought, should we just do it now? Yeah, go ahead. The pool scene is the famous scene from this movie. I have never seen this movie, but I know that scene. Yeah, I love that. It's not in the movie on Netflix. Was it not in theaters, that scene? The pool scene's on Netflix, but it's a shorter version. There's an extended version. They don't really do anything. The scene that is the famous scene is she takes her top off in the pool, which is not in the Netflix cut. Oh, no, not in the original cut. No, that wasn't it. If you went to the movie, That's the unrated cut.

45:08You went to the movies to see it. You didn't see that. Oh, wow. It goes from her. She gets out of the pool. He's on the phone. They fight and then you're out. Because they kiss for like a second and then it kind of transitions into the police department. Oh, you are scared. There's like, there's still like that. You did get Kevin Bacon with the camera. Yeah, you get that. He's in there. Genuinely might be my single favorite moment in the film. Dressed down. Incredible moments. He's dressed down. He's nice. He's sleazy now. Yeah, you're prepared for anything with that. And then the cut to them watching him watching it on the monitor at the police station.

45:38When did the famous scene then become famous? I think the Motel Threesome could be that. But the Motel Threesome is also a very famous scene. And I didn't know about that. The Threesome was much more famous to me. That's the iconic one. But in the 2000s, we got into the unrated era. Director's Cut, unrated era with a new extra 15 minutes. And so they would get you to go buy the DVD by doing that. So by the time the shit probably got to the internet. complimentary vial of hand cream 15 extra minutes watch party best setting for a watch or rewatch solo is an option here 5 o 'clocker or you could do like what Mallory had our parents are now asleep let's go grab wild things so like for that 12 to 14 range formative years you know and the next thing that happens at those parties is spin the bottle or 7 minutes in heaven or something like that.

46:35Wow, thanks. Boy, rest in peace, dad. This was one of dad's all-time great goddamns. My dad had great goddamns. We in the house. He walking out. He got his saddle. Boy, I wish my sister was here. He got his saddle over his... Me and Ryan, we looking at the movie. My dad go, what they doing? Then he see, Denise Richard stays on top of him. He go, god damn! I'll be careful now. watching too much of this. And then he went outside and sat out the horse up and wrote. Incredible. Great goddamn. That would be a good category. The goddamn category. Oh, yeah. Some good goddamns from him when he saw stuff and heard stuff.

47:13$20 million budget made$67.2 million followed by three directed DVD sequels, which is another sign we're in the right hands. Crazy. Wild Things 2. Yeah. Wild Things Diamonds in the Rough. Yep. And Wild Things Foursome. One of the best titles ever. I don't have no idea what happens in those movies or who's in them. but I'm sure they're on Tubi. I think the titles tell you everything you need to know. One of them I watched because it had one of the great beauties. You know, you guys remember Layla Arciera? Remember her? No. Oh man, she was in the Q-Tip video. I think it was Vibrant Thing and then she was on a show called Son of the Beach.

47:49Remember Son of the Beach? That was produced by Howard Stern. Okay, she was on that show and then she did the Wild Things movie and we thought that maybe she was going to have her Denise Richards moment. She's always beautiful so I went to see it but she didn't. You know, it's funny that Denise Richards moment, there's probably a lot, dozens of actresses who were probably waiting for a moment like that and it just never happened. Never happened, yeah. Yeah. It really, like, it's time, movie, scene. Yeah. It has to hit the zeitgeist in some way, and it happened. It hit it for Roger Ebert. Sure did.

48:22This is an all-time Roger Ebert. Three stars for Raj. Are you surprised? Yeah. Incredible. Lurid trash with a plot so twisted They're still explaining it during the closing titles. It's like a three-way collision between a softcore sex film, a soap opera, and a B-grade noir. I loved it. We're so back with Raj. Sucked it up perfectly, honestly. Captured it. Actually, you said I liked it, not I loved it. I added that you love. He's right. There used to be a place in our movie-making culture for well-made trash. Yeah, absolutely. But here's the thing. A movie that was just entertaining. but they're trying to make this movie all the time they just fuck it up all the time you could go anywhere pick a streamer there's 50 versions of this movie and they fucked them up they had the wrong star, the plot's bad they're taking it too seriously what's good about this is they know what they're making the whole time and they're having a good time as they do it well it also gets back to what you guys were saying at the beginning like the illicit nature of oh if you go see this you'll see boobs or you'll see a dick or like a great you know actually on the Phoebe Cates Fast Times front, you know, there's in Stranger Things when they work at the family video store and one of the things Steve Harrington said is like, you know who pauses Fast Times at like, you know, 58 minutes or whatever?

49:38People who like boobies, right? Like, the narrative springs up around the film. You don't, to your point from earlier, you don't need to do that today. No. So, there's not the same like word of mouth. There's not the same kind of cult following around a movie because it's not like, there's nothing illicit about it anymore. That stuff is everywhere. You know what? could you make an argument that maybe the housemaid is sort of but that's not because people are like I need to go see the housemaid to see Sydney Sweeney in a certain way you can get that you can go buy her bath water I like your point though you know housemaid which I thought was really egregiously bad terrible yeah I didn't see it I watched the whole thing and I do think it was trying to do some of the wild things stuff it didn't have the sense of humor that wild things has I think And then obviously didn't have anyone like Bill Murray just popping in for 10 minutes.

50:29Wild Things is very self-aware in a way that obviously like some people don't appreciate and some people are still cherishing decades later like us. But it's also, it's kind of beautiful. Like everyone looks good. It's sleazy. Yeah. South Florida is a character. That's the thing. We should have talked about South Florida. It's just a great movie location. It really is. Because you can go to the rich part. Yeah. You can go to the grimier part where they're like fucking And wrestling alligators and like these dive bars that look really cool. They're swamps. They're trying to tap into that spirit in like Outer Banks.

51:05You know, very like pokes and kooks, right? Two sides of this community, this resort town. Well, a movie that did it really well that's been on the rewatchables list for two years that I know Vanna's revisited many times at a time with Denzel Washington. Oh, hell yeah. Another fucking awesome movie which has now been ripped off by the His and Her show on Netflix because it's the same premise of like this cop he was with involved with the lady that just got murdered but doesn't want to find out yet it kind of invented that I don't remember seeing that before and out of time it's moving fast like it's moving fast and it's very sweaty and it's just Denzel being all the Denzel pieces I like he's up to stuff he's sweaty he's horny do you know Heaven's Prisoners with Alec Baldwin?

51:46that's New Orleans month sweaty southern movie I'm interested Terry Terry's in that one I've told this story before but Jacko and I went to see that and I spilled the popcorn right before the nude scene and he went down to pick it up and missed the nude scene and he's still upset about it oh no and still brings it up every once in a while but um but yeah so like South Florida works and then all the subtext between the the classes and stuff yeah you know the movie gives you a lot to look at Heaven's Prisoners Angel's Heart Angel Heart Angel Heart New Orleans Mom Angel's Heart was like it sounds like a little kid movie yeah yeah yeah Heaven's Prisoners Angel Heart Tightrope with Clint Eastwood okay that's a good one yeah might be a one for us month yeah it's when we're off Netflix and we're on like stars most we watch we'll see yeah I really enjoy the boating the boating the one person boating class always aggressive when you have one person in the class I always like when they have movies like that there are technically other students who like very quickly leave their other boats but he's mostly giving attention to Jimmy.

52:54All he cares about this. Anyway, we go from that to the Jeep ride to the Van Ryans, which has a big VR on the gates. During this little stretch, we have Kelly Van Ryan acting all flirty with Matt Dillon. Yep. We have Kelly Van Ryan and Susie seeing each other and being bitchy and she does that weird tongue thing. We have Sandra the mom coming out with the bikini on. And then we have Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness award winner because we have Third Eye Blind right into Why Can't We Be Friends? Yeah. We're just fucking cranking it. I don't know what happened with the soundtrack. It's like they ran out of money 40 minutes in.

53:28We're on this amazing pace of late 90s music, and then it just ends. Such a good call. I thought the same thing. I was like, oh my God, we're cooking with 90s music. Yeah, it's like, where's Everclear? It's like Everclear's lawyer stops, and then all of a sudden we ran out of money. Actually, I think maybe it was thematic because the early parts of this movie is where in high school, things are lighter, and then when things turn, all you get is the jazz score. Yeah, because some of it's diegetic. Like, they're actually listening to those songs driving in the Jeep. Can we talk about Sandra, the mom?

53:59I would love to. Teresa Randall. I don't know anyone who can handle my boat the way you can. Incredible stuff. Every line she says sounds like it came right out of a porn. Emasculates homeboy from behind. Frankie. Frankie, man. That was tough. He seemed like he was doing a good job. I thought he was handling her boat perfectly. Some incredible physics in that scene because they're obviously nude and fucking, but she's wearing high heels and he's holding the heels. Yeah. For leverage, really memorable. He's trying to live up to what Sam Lombardo, he's trying to get every bit of, he's trying to do a Sam Lombardo.

54:30He can't do it. Teresa Russo is the actress. She had a cup of coffee in the 80s. Oh, yeah. Black Widow. Deborah Winger. Okay. Whore? Whore? Whore? Whore, one of my all-time faves. She basically, like, discount Kathleen Turner. Exactly what I was going to say. If Kathleen Turner turned it down, she was there. They look a lot like. Kind of had the same vibe. Borderline doppelganger. Not a very good actress, unfortunately. She sucks in this movie. She sucks for all the right reasons, though. I know. It works, but every line is delivered terribly. Really bad. But Whore was one of the films that I would watch.

55:03Ken Russell's Whore. Ken Russell's Whore. I wish Sean Russell would be like, just an amazing 4K transfer of Whore. Arrow video. Hey, y 'all don't watch Whore. I watched the 4K of this. The Arrow transfer, and it was great. Oh, yeah. Oh, they have a whole bunch of deleted scenes, all kinds of things. The car wash scene. In my notes, I wrote down. Where's your hose, Mr. Simmons? Mel, come on. In my notes. Come on. I was going to open the pot with that, but there wasn't an opportunity. That's going to get cut out. No, not cut out of the pot. Cut out of social media. It's really all sideways on the rigger.

55:43Right in front of the Jeep. In this car wash scene, I wrote that in my notes. Two words. Just gratuitous. exclamation point it's perfect there's fucking going for it in this scene the I want what I want needle drop here is I think iconic it's unbelievable this is Van didn't even see the rest of the movie yeah immediate wave the five year waiting period for the white girl Hall of Fame no she's like done I don't need to see the rest of the movie you're in stop being wet in the foyer oh my god when there are a couple of people that when they burst onto the scene they burst on to that motherfucker.

56:21And this is one of them. You see her. She is just perfectly beautiful, man. It's the Jordan 63-point game. Perfectly beautiful, man. Oh, my God. He's doing this to the 86 Celtics? Yeah, for sure. And there was a couple of times. Maybe you could argue Liv Tyler had a moment like that. Maybe. It would be funny if we blew out the White Girl Hall of Fame and made it like an actual show like the ESPYs with presenters. I'm into it. Me, RG3. You know what I mean? People, other people, we do it. People get mad, but we haven't Please welcome Vivica Fox and Emanuacho

56:56Next scene, I had to write This is not one of the most rewatchable scenes but it is for me Kelly tells her mom what happens What happened It's probably the worst two minutes of acting in rewatchable's history You're not compelled by the I'm reaching to gently pet my daughter's head and calm her, but I don't know how to make an emotional connection. I feel like Teresa Russell's reading cue cards behind Denise Richards' head. She's so bad. Everything that she's in in the movie. Something happened to you? What's wrong, my dear? It's just, you can't, and then it cuts to the police station and her saying the line, my daughter does not get raped in Blue Bay.

57:37That was her big Oscars moment. That's one of the most absurd lines in movie history. It's a crazy line. It's a shocking line. But it is actually weirdly, like, again, it's a microcosm for the movie. It's weirdly effective. It's like she's making this about her and herself. Sam Lombardo's not going to do that to me. Yeah, when people are like, why didn't Denise Richards have a bigger career? Like, just the two minutes is probably just not a great actor. Teresa Russell, neither. The moment when she's like, they're talking about the dad, right? Establishing some key, like, original wound origin story trauma there for Kelly.

58:10And then Sandra Van Ryn is just like, he didn't have to kill himself. Yeah. He didn't have to do it. Just another shocking and crazy line in this movie. This is one of my probably unanswerable questions. We'll get to it later. Yeah, I have it as well. Would you have given her the Jed Nelson award for somebody who's just in a completely different movie? Sandra? Or do you feel like she's in this movie? I think she's in this movie. There's another movie going on where she's like banging the pool boy. But that is this movie. That's literally this movie. This movie is all the movies. That's what makes it memorable.

58:38Susie tells the police what happened. So good to have Campbell. The second day courtroom scene with Bill Murray. Yeah, the trial. is just unbelievable. Great stuff. The tabloid frenzy news reporters outside kind of giving you a sense of the town and how they're all interested in the drama and the voyeuristic gawking. The Blue Bay Tribunes there. Don't we just love the sleazy genius lawyer? The lawyer that's not in, not the, what's the guy's name? Tom Baxter or whatever it is. Not that guy, but the guy that's just like the sleazy genius, like my cousin Vinny or whomever, the bruiser from the Rain Man or whatever, the guy that's like just fucking awesome at being a lawyer but he's...

59:16He'll break every rule. Yeah. The threesome. Have some research on this scene. Fantastic. Did you do it all on your work computer? Yes.

59:31Richard and her lawyer had a detailed contract about how much nudity would be filmed, including whether they would have to use a body double. She did not. Film the scene after drinking a pitcher of margaritas with Neve Campbell who's nervous. Camel's contract strict no nudity clause, she claims. She says she enjoyed kissing Richards. It was fun. We just sort of went and did it. Go daddy. Brought a bottle of wine on my trailer. Got drunk first. I'm going to make out with a girl for the first time in my life. It's so interesting that a lot of times you learn things about yourself and have new experiences when shooting a scene.

1:00:06They're things you wouldn't normally do in your life. Yeah. That's how I feel about making the rewatchables. I learn so much about myself every time we talk about a movie together. You know? Richard said, at one point, it's four in the morning. I guess this is a different scene, but it's four in the morning. I'm half naked in a swimming pool. I'm making out with Nev Campbell. What am I doing here? Having a great time. Yeah. Makes a mark. The motel scene is unbelievable. So, there just weren't a lot of threesomes in movies in the 80s and 90s. I can think of only a couple. There was the movie called Threesome with Josh Charles.

1:00:40The movie, yeah. I don't remember Three of Hearts, whether they all went at it together. They didn't do it. Basic Instinct hinted at it, but I don't know if it ever happened. Almost, but nah, didn't really get there. It just was kind of taboo. I think that's why this scene was a big deal because it just didn't happen. There was an exploration of sex, but they would stop before it made their characters look a little too deviant, which is why movies like Showgirls and Basic Instinct were important because they kind of leaned into that. And then those movies allow movies like this to kind of go a little bit further.

1:01:15There's a great moment in the threesome that definitely wasn't in the script. Because there's not much dialogue in the threesome once it actually gets started. But in the middle of it, Matt Dillon just goes, yeah. Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on. Definitely does Matt Dillon. Is that your flex category? No, this is my great shot Gordo. Oh, he brought it up. This is my great shot Gordo. Oh.

1:01:40I peeped that when I was in the theater. Matt Dillon as evil Superman. Look, he's got the little car tip. And he just goes, yeah. With the evil Superman Elvis. I will always remember that. Like, I'm glad you peed that. I'm trying to figure out where to put that in the studio. Because you're just like me. Yeah, get it framed. He's right there. Look at him. He's into it, baby. Oh, my God. Yeah. He was fine by that. That's my great shot. You spent like$30 of ink to bring that up. That's a real like, we need the knee to be angled exactly here so we can't see the throbbing erection. This is just a very memorable and meaningful scene.

1:02:18But I honestly think he was totally in the moment. A hundred percent. Oh, no question. The sexy part of that is iconic and great. Changed a lot of lives. That's the, I mean, the movie is full of twists. This is like a genuinely great twist. That's where the whole movie becomes the movie that it is. He walks in, he sees the footprints. You flash to Kelly. You're like, what's about to happen? Then you realize they're in cahoots. Then Susie emerges and you realize they're all in cahoots. And so it's just an actual thrilling plot moment coupled with the sex. The champagne bottle under the towel, prepping you later for the harpoon gun.

1:03:00You know, all of it. It's great. What she's talking about is rarer than you think it is. Like a genuine, oh my God, into a sex scene. That's pivotal in the movie. That's pivotal in the movie that has a real thematic purpose. Now, if you take a movie like Basic Instinct, the sex scene is used to illustrate the tone of the movie, like the desperation of the movie, him going over the deep end, all of that stuff like that. But I would connect this more to her showing her vagine in that film, which is actually an important thing to Bill Exit. Actually an important thing. I don't know if that's like a Louisiana pronunciation.

1:03:39That's actually an important thing for that character to do. Yes, of course. Demonstrating her power. Demonstrating her power of everyone. But this is not just a sort of like, let's throw it into the film to get oohs and ahs. Like this is an important scene in the movie. Yeah, this is like, you know, we have our era of Thrones, especially with like sex position, but this is not, it is that in some way. that you can't understand the movie without it. But this isn't like Littlefinger just talking about other characters and then saying to Roz, like, play with her ass. Yeah. This is actually... Just watch that in the sauna.

1:04:13Again, also left an impression. Yeah, I bet you did. I bet you did. Just was like, well, the sauna's getting hot. Steamy masterpiece indeed. Jesus. This is great. That's the most rewatchable scene in the movie. The all-female pool scene, which is more funny for the Kevin Bacon reaction. he's just hilarious in this unbelievable the cut to him and the wide eyes that's another Tommy how's the peeping moment oh yeah how's the peeping then to the Dylan Bacon reveal in the shower sure it's like oh these guys are working together bro when I was in the movie theater I thought they were gonna hook up I halfway expected them to fuck they're supposed to when I was in the movie theater I was like oh shit they in a relationship and there's the whole thing.

1:05:01Now we really progress. The vibe is palpable. Yeah. The ending and then the closing credits ending would be the other two. What do you got for most rewatchable now? I think the pool scene is a runner-up, I think, but it has to be the Motel 3. This is one of the most rewatchable scenes of the decade. Yeah, there's just absolutely no question. Yeah, because it's got the reveal. I would recommend the unrated extended cut of the pool scene, though, for anyone who hasn't checked it out. Give it a go. People have checked it out. Yeah! Yeah! Evil Superman. Two chicks on him. Look at this son of a bitch.

1:05:30And look at the yeah down there. It's incredible. Yeah. I like that there's a period. Yeah, you needed punctuation there. What's the most 1998 thing about this movie? A couple contenders. Oh, what do you have? I only had two contenders. I had two. I think we already talked about the soundtrack. But like Smash Mouth, Sugar Ray, Third Eye Blind, it's just very of its time. I would say the other is teachers fucking their students. Also, 1998, when Pacey comes into our lives in Dawson's Creek, This is a big moment for this. 99 is like the Cordelia Wesley, not a teacher, but still an adult. The school plot and Buffy, et cetera.

1:06:06So it's just very of its moment. To die for. We were going back over. What was the one with, I mean, it's basically Lolita Remade. The one where Alicia Silverstone and Carrie Elway's in it. What's that joint? Oh, The Crush. The Crush. Like we were doing one of these movies like a year. It's just a normal part of a plot. Now I could tell you guys why because that type of thing just honestly wasn't as frowned upon as far as huge age gaps. I'm not going to get into celebrities. The 90s were a completely different time. It was a completely different time with that, but they were doing this stuff all the time in movies and TV and stuff.

1:06:44You could also probably just say the cast. I mean, if I told you, if I said, guess the year this movie came out and I said Neve Campbell, Matt Dillon, Denise Richards, and Kevin Bacon, I mean, you're probably guessing late 90s. Yeah, you would go late 90s. That must be a fun trivia game. Yeah, for sure. I had two. I have no ballistics for the Kelly Van Ryan murder. They're just solving that now in five minutes. I had that in another category. The obvious winner is Bacon's video camera. That thing was gone. Five years later, those things were half the size. But ten years earlier, it would have been taking up his whole shoulder.

1:07:19Now he's just using his iPhone. What's age the best? What do you have now? I think Stingers, you know, this is the era of the Stinger with the MCU and especially the mid-credits Stinger. You know, you're not getting five Stingers in the Guardians of the Galaxy credits if not for this. Thruples, this is really a big moment for Thruples. Thruples, yeah. You know, I'm sure we get the lesson like threesomes rarely work out. I mean, it's hard enough for one person to keep a secret, let alone three. But I don't know that that was the takeaway for most of the impressionable youths watching it. They were like, should I hook up with more than one person at once?

1:07:55I think the class warfare elements of the story Certainly like are effective And you get little It is the actually most like subtle We're actually trying to say something I guess along with like maybe like the Greek mythology You know Helios incorporations into the story But like you know the fact that Death on the installment plan Is like the book in Susie's hand at the trailer park And she's like you think oh you do You think I'm like just trash like my mom etc. All of that. I think it makes the movie have a little more heft when you revisit it. Short Shorts. Ah. Great movie for Short Shorts and Short Shorts are back.

1:08:33It was kind of trying to come back after the Fab Five. There was a late 90s reversion back to the Short Shorts and then we went long again. Yeah. The Sailing Shorts on Sam. Very memorable. What do you have? Number one. Just Goth. Oh yeah. Sure. Goth is still around. Yeah. Goth still putting up numbers. Yeah, her look is still a look. Yeah, absolutely. It's still a look. Goth is still around. It's still doing their thing. Like, one of my little nieces, Goth, she's doing her thing. It's like, I'm damned. It's like, there was Goth when I was in school, and it's still Goth. Now, Goth putting up numbers.

1:09:07Shout out to Goth. But not just that, but I don't want to make the pod uncomfortable, but South Florida sex scandals. Uh-huh. They're like. Have age the best. I feel comfortable. The best. age the best South Florida sex scandals with everything that's in the news now how about this we all know this is Florida's fucking off the rails like Tiger Woods yeah all of that South Florida Florida man all of that stuff those things are around and come all the time the Patriots the owner of the Patriots don't leave him out the owner of the Patriots going down you knew I was going there don't leave him out that was South Florida definitely for us South Florida sex scandals the whole nine yeah Well, if you just read the plot of this movie as an actual news story, and you're like, what state do you think this happened in?

1:09:59Oh, yeah, of course in Florida. No question. And then you would say it was Robert Kraft there. I would also... Yeah! I would also have what stage is the best just South Florida as a location for movies. I've got to pivot on this. I have to go... I've got to swerve on this. This is my candidate for weakest link of the film because I think they don't... maybe it's my hottest take and I didn't even realize it was the hottest take. I don't, I think that the South Florida is used very well, the Blue Bay and the Everglades as atmosphere and setting, but not really underutilized for plot. I like the atmosphere and the setting.

1:10:38And I would argue the plot with some of those weird dive bars that they have, which one of them was called Smiling Jack's Fish Cam. But I like, I just like New Orleans and this area of Florida for movies. Like I have this This is a picking nit, but I just find it unacceptable and difficult to believe that one of these alligators doesn't actually eat anybody at any point. Why does that not happen? That should happen. Then I'd have South Florida as a winner. See, if you, if that's the thing. So to me, the backdrop kind of makes it, the sexiness of it, the neo-noir of, you know, the same reason why - The humidity and the stickiness.

1:11:14The same reason why A Time to Kill feels like such a desperate movie because it's like, not only is there racism, but it's just fucking hot, man. can we get some air conditioning in here that's why is everybody so upset and so that works but to your point if maybe somebody being found in the Everglades or something like that then maybe that would make a little more sense okay shower side dick I mean we don't get Affleck's side dick in Gone Girl without what Kevin Bacon does here we owe a debt we owe a debt does pave the way the poster I have for What's Sage the Best it's just a great poster it is a fantastic poster really good kind of tells you what the movie is the two women together look great I really like the actress who played the other police officer her name is Daphne Ruben Vega never really in anything after this very strange IMDB I think she was in the Heights that was where it eventually landed for her and then as I mentioned any movie with a MILF saying things like I don't know anyone who can handle my boat the way you can so empowered we're going to take one more break And then hit the rest of the categories.

1:12:24Great shot, Gordo. Van already submitted his nominee, which I thought was great. I would also throw in a wet post car crash. Denise Richards staring at Dylan with the... That's a very good one. Stop and wet in the foyer white t-shirt contest. Her friend leaves. He's trying to find the thing. He comes back in and she's just... We go up from the bottom. Oh, when she gets out. She goes in for the coupon. We go from feet up. Yeah, that's really good. I would pick Kelly emerging from the community pool when Ray comes to talk to her in the sheer blue bathing suit. Then at these Benihana wear for scene-stealing location.

1:12:57The Van Ryan home, right? Yeah. I mean, this is incredible. I don't know if that home is in South Florida, but I thought the house was cool. Great use of the balcony, the guest house, the gun cabinet, the boat dock, all of it. I like the Tropic Motel. The motel is also fantastic. I'm going to go back here later, but I like the Tropic Motel. Ben, you have a flex category. My flitz category is how would Van Lathan get out of this one? Okay. I'm not going for a list. So my girl sees me leaving the Tropic Motel with two young white women. Yeah. Listen, here's the deal. I was at the Tropic Motel. I was with these two young white women.

1:13:36But I did it for us. Okay. This is also, to be clear, after the rest of the plot is intact. This is after the trial. No, this is just me. You're the guidance counselor. This is just me in this situation. Just you and the motel. Okay. I did it for us. And let me tell you why. Like, I'm a podcaster. And a lot of times people say, Van's obsessed with race. He puts race in every single conversation. It's black, black, black, black, black, black, black, black. I wanted to reach out to the white community. I wanted to reach out. And what better way than to get two younger white ladies? Yeah. And talk to them.

1:14:09So I'm like, let's have a conversation. We're going to go to the Tropic Motel. Because I don't want to be seen out in public. you get shot by TMZ you know they would like to get me so I don't want to be seen a well known teacher in the community yes I want to go out there and talk to them this is what happens first of all those girls do not go to Blue Bay High School I know you heard that but that's not where they go they're both 25 those girls go to Miami okay so we get inside the room and what do they tell me they're gigantic fans of me Joel, Tate, and the Duke right you know so we in there you know we raising the roof Chapel Rowan is on we having a whole conversation They just wanted to talk about Carson Beck.

1:14:46I'm reaching out to them. Yeah. And then guess what happens? Haley brings up the fourth and five that Mendoza converted to really destroy Miami. Ballsy call from Sig. And then Hannah starts crying because that really hurt them as Miami fans. Sure. One of them brings out some champagne to calm the thing down. Yeah. And then the champagne gets popped. That's probably what you smelling a little bit got on me. I screamed out, yeah, but it was just because I had champagne in a while. Yeah, because it was like, wow, yeah, champagne. I was excited about it in the whole deal. Of course. I ended up talking to them for a long time.

1:15:24I'm really telling them that I think Miami has the opportunity. How long? How long of a time? With Crystal Ball. Look. But then I had to shower because I had champagne on me. Yeah. Then I had to take my clothes off. I had to shower. I got champagne on me. I think Miami will be back. We end up talking. We really get to a place where I feel like everybody was satisfied. Why was Isabella Danger there, though? She was outside just making sure that everybody knew how to get there. Right? I lost my phone. Two things. Number one, first of all, tell your friends not to be watching what I'm doing when I'm leaving the Tropic Motel.

1:15:55Yeah. If they had a man, maybe they wouldn't. That's the first thing. If they had a man, maybe they wouldn't be worried about what I'm doing. Secondly, if you think that we are going to be able to ignore. It's like five minutes. Just listen. You've never been in this situation. You got to go into detail. If you think that we're going to be able to ignore this part of the population and still win in 2028, you're crazy. I think I convinced him to vote Democrat. So I did this for us. We could still get this state. Yeah, we could still, we have to win Florida. I did this for us. Haley and Hannah are friends of the family now.

1:16:28They're coming over. I'm going to introduce them to Jomi, the whole nine. I think we're good. It's amazing stuff. Thank you. It's amazing. Just one of the best. Butch's girlfriend award weak link of the film now we can talk about how the original screenplay and conflicting information of how close they came to filming it but these guys were supposed to be gay at the end of the movie is that fact? yeah there's supposed to be a shower sex scene with Kevin Bacon and Matt Dillon I don't think they would have gone that far because this movie is pretty tame for the sex scenes even though there seems to be conflicting reports on who was the one who said they didn't want to see it clear if you listen to their interviews where Matt Dillon's just like, I'm really glad we didn't do it.

1:17:12It seems like Kevin really wanted to, though. I think the conflicting part is, did he shut it down day of? Right. But it was supposed to be in there and... Guys, it just makes more sense if that's what happens. I always kind of... It's funny because I never researched this movie, but I've obviously seen it over the years. And I always thought they were just insinuating stuff because it was the 90s and they didn't want to cross the line. Right. But now it makes more sense. Why is he showering? Well, first of all, also who opens the door and the guy's like, howdy partner. If you're not hooking up, you just, you go over to your buddy's house and you have this.

1:17:48Take a shower. You're like, oh, we're at the beach. I'm going to take a shower. Here's my dick. Here's the coarse light and my dick. Exactly. It makes much more sense for him to go in and strike up this type of bond with him if they are fucking. Yeah. Because if not, you don't just, The first thing y 'all do as new friends is not a scheme to kill a bunch of people. That's the implication not only in the shower scene and the hotel scene, but also then when we get the pickup at the bar. Like, he's there to pick him up. Yeah, he's got to kind of come on to him, and that's the thing that's going to...

1:18:22I have cutting this out or not filming it ultimately as a what's aged the worst. I think the movie makes a lot more sense if this is actually there rather than just implied. It makes it a better movie. Well, that leads us to the Mallory Ribbon Award for did this movie need a better sex scene? They needed that. I think, again, just reminding everyone that the pool scene is long. So here's what we get. We get Sandra and Frankie fucking holding the high heels in the bed, rocking in the bed. Okay, we get the famous motel threesome, wonderful stuff, pouring the champagne, amazing. Underrated perfect detail in the threesome, which we didn't talk about yet.

1:18:54Sam pocketing the panties. Oh, yeah. Guns count. Tells you everything you need to know about that character right there. I'm just saving these for later. Incredible touch. Then we get the Kelly-Susie pool hookup with Ray filming and watching. That is a minute-ish longer in the unrated extended cut. You're getting to see some boobs again. They're kissing for a lot longer. They're taking off each other's tops in the pool. So that is there, and it should be in the whole movie. We need the Sam Ray scene at the end. No question. I think we need that sex scene, but I would also say we need one other thing, and it is somebody masturbating at some point.

1:19:29My specific nomination would be Sam knows that Detective Gloria Perez is watching him through the window because he comes out and he's like you're watching me right and then he brings her in I'll give you something to watch exactly he should have started jerking off he's already shirtless just start cranking it you know she's watching crank daddy a little CR crank daddy Captain Craig why does that not happen I don't understand it was the unrealized potential of when the other police officer comes in and it seems like she's going to hook up with Matt Dillon. They're leaning into each other on the bed, so we also just could have had them hooking up.

1:20:08But I think her seeing him jerk off, very titillating, draws her to him even more fully before the very flimsy, like, let me give you this file that will lead you to believe that Kelly definitely wanted to kill Susie. It's all a little more convincing if she's seen his dick. Sam goes to Mama Van Ryan to talk to her after everything's settled and they make up the old-fashioned way. I thought they also could have snuck in there. I have a tweak with the Sandra Van Ryan plot coming in another category. What's age the worst? We mentioned no soundtrack album, even though we had some of the people that Mal mentioned, Smash Mouth, Sugar Ray, Third Eye Blind.

1:20:50Not enough songs for the soundtrack, and this was the soundtrack era. I don't know how they fucked this up. Maybe they didn't think it was going to be that big of a movie, but I don't know where the wallflowers were. The wallflowers were great. Everclear was sitting right there. Everclear, man. Goo Goo Dolls. Cracker was like, Cracker. What are we doing? Why didn't you call us? Lit. We just had so many of them. We should do a special Ringer movies breakout about the death of the soundtrack. Like when the soundtrack spotify. It was like... Our overlords. They murdered it. It became the playlist.

1:21:28Just make your own fucking playlist for any movie. It's so difficult. I remember when Bad Boys 2 dropped. The Bad Boys 2 soundtrack was as big a deal as the movie was itself. And it's just not a thing no more in no way, shape, or form. Sean and Amanda were just talking about this on Big Pick on the Oscars mailbag episode, I think. And one of their suggestions for a new category was a needle drop category to kind of like reward something like, what is PTA doing with the way he incorporates music into his movies. You know, the Scorsese impact on filmmakers through the era. That would be a way to give people, like, incentivize them to invest a little bit more.

1:22:06What's the worst? A teacher accused of sleeping with multiple students? I don't even think he has the chance to clean out his office. Every single aspect of the plot. You're not allowed back at the school. Somebody else is putting your shit in boxes. No, you're fucking done. Yeah, you're done. Like, at this particular point now, you're guilty until proven innocent. They rolled this out. they haven't arrested Mr. Lombardo yet. They haven't fired. That's wild. They're like, we're going to talk to everybody. They're like, yeah, we couldn't find anything on him. The guy's doing all kinds of crazy shit.

1:22:37Ultimately, every nitpick, like you guys said earlier, though, it's lampshaded by the fact that they're like, oh, yeah, well, like Ray was in on it. Or, you know, you have an explanation eventually for all of the things that completely defy belief. And then here's the story in the unrated version with the extra footage. This is the biggest, what's aged the worst, I think. Yeah, McNaughton. basically the production company they went rogue they filmed all this extra stuff for the movie that he cut out to make it the right version of the movie and he said I hated it, we've gone way past telling this story we showed as much as we needed to do in the movie it's exploitative, it's sleazy I know that sounds strange talking about this movie but it destroys the forward motion of the storytelling he couldn't believe they did it I thought you were going to say something else that's a weird one I don't even know what you guys are talking about are you talking about the end credit scene no the director's cut with the extra footage yeah yeah yeah he was like what the fuck I mean I guess yeah the director should be able to green light that at least I yeah I mean we're pouring champagne on tits in a dirty motel room elsewhere in the movie is like seeing boobs once more in a pool it's like at that point remember the reason why I've talked about it before they're selling DVDs they're trying to make you go buy the DVD yeah So for him, it's a little rich for him to kind of get involved.

1:23:57The movie wasn't like a gigantic box office hit. So they're going to do whatever they had to do to make up for... Make sure they're talking about it on Rewatchables. Years later. So they have a deleted where they zoom in on Bacon's cock. Is that true? No. That's the super special director's cut we're working on right now. Only Sean has that Blu-ray. That's the sauna cut. Yeah, sauna cut. I thought you were going to talk about one of the other things in the extended cut. This is a What's Aged the Worst, which is if you watch the extended cuts should be like, oh, there's an extra minute in a scene you saw or a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a scene that you understand why it was cut, timing, pacing, plot, whatever.

1:24:37There is a scene in the extended cut that radically changes the movie, which is learning that Susie is Sandra Van Ryan's half-sister and Kelly's aunt. So first of all, there's an incest element that's introduced, but it's also like the personal motivation of that's my fortune. I didn't even know if I believed that. I think this, I watched it today. It's on the DVD. Oh, so it actually exists? It's real. Yes. And like, so the fact that like you can have a, if you watch one version of it, your understanding of who the character is and why they're doing what they're doing is actually different from the people who watch a different version of the movie, that's bad.

1:25:20That's not what extended cuts should do. What's Asia worse for me is just the erotic thriller. Like after Unfaithful, which was... Great movie. Fucking fantastic. Okay. Might be... Unfaithful might have been like, was that 2001, 2003? Like 2002? We did it like five years ago. Unfaithful might be the... Yeah, 2002. Along with Fatal Attraction, the prestigious best version perfection was a killer. And then what's she going to do? She can't do anything. She can't say anything. She made that bed. Poor Olivia Martinez. After that, the Hollywood kind of... She's the guy who had some books. I love that.

1:26:05Not to get into another movie, but hey, I'm fucking your wife. Have some water. Come in. Let's talk about it. You've been cupped. Like completely. And then he ends up getting hit with the snow. Arguably deserved to die. Who, Olivia Martinez? Yeah. We see victory laughing a little bit. Let's come in. I'm fucking your wife. Can I eat some water? He was having a panic attack, right? Yeah. But anyway, so, but like after that, they kind of stay away from it a little bit. I mean, there have been some. I think internet porn ruined it. It's too hard. Ruined the erotic. I just think. What else is internet porn ruined for you?

1:26:43It's too easy to get nudity and sex. It's been very important for me. Nudity and sex is too easy to get. And the erotic thriller faded away at an appropriate time. Sex is such a delicious plot device. You know what the other thing that I think might have happened? We kind of did every version of these. How many plots can you have? It's like how they talk about music. There's only so many rock and roll chords you can play. Yeah. How many different ways can you have like somebody's wife set somebody up? But are you going to the erotic thriller for the plot? You're going for the sensibility. You're going for the essence.

1:27:21Listen, I'm with you guys. I wish there were more erotic thrillers. I think we're just bad at them though. Body heat. There were too many of them. That was 1981. Does Baby Girl count as an erotic thriller? No. No. No? What about Euphoria? Could be. Isn't Euphoria an erotic thriller? Baby Girl has some elements. It's a TV show. Yeah, but you just get eight episodes of it. Right, Thriller is like what they kind of tried to do with the housemate, right? Kind of tried to make it with the housemate, I guess. But I don't think people are smart enough now when they do these to understand the black comedy fun part.

1:27:52It's like you're basically serving two masters at the same time. You have to figure out, how do I do both? How do I make the erotic thriller? But it also has to be fun. Right, a creative threesome, would you say? A throuple of a different story. I need to be able to make fun of what I'm watching in some scenes. Like, you got to push the envelope. I think it's hard. Craig, doesn't your generation also have, like, an odd relationship to sex? To be honest, I think that's a generation below me. Oh, you think it's below you? Yeah, I think that's people who are, like, 20 years old right now. The Gooners.

1:28:24The Gooners. The Gooners. The Carpers Magazine. Because when they were, like, eight years old, they had an iPhone and could look up anything they wanted. I didn't really have that until, like, high school. and even then it was like slow goings. It was a big deal when somebody had like an iPod touch that had the internet in high school and somebody could like look up whoever, a photo of an actress topless or something. That was still pretty innocent compared to what like a nine-year-old can do right now. When I say weird relationship with sex, I'm more so describing that like the sex scene itself, we litigated.

1:28:58He was asking less about your personal search history. Yeah, thank God. Well, I'm saying like a lot of times, like I'm in trial, correct? Yeah, it's tough. I'm an open book. When I'm talking to like, you know, because I'm around a lot of younger people at The Ringer, we will talk about whether or not sex scenes should be in movies. Like, I'll have these conversations with the Midnight Boys and they'll be like, why would there be a sex scene in a movie? I'll be like, what are you guys talking about? Like, we watch a movie where a guy jumps into the sun. Like, why? The sex scene, people fuck. Why don't they think sex scenes should be in movies?

1:29:28I don't agree with that. There's like a lot of people that think. That is a generational thing for sure. There's a lot of people. That is gratuitous or unnecessary? That is gratuitous or unnecessary. Some people say they don't want to be in a movie theater. Watching people have sex on camera as a communal experience, they feel weird about that. They feel bashful or whatever. Great. I invite you to watch it at home under a fleece blanket, doing whatever you want with your hands. So I just think that kind of attitude a little bit kills because the erotic thriller, the sex is one of the driving forces of the plot.

1:30:01I have a hard time understanding it because I'm from the scrambled cable channel generation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, I think I just saw a nipple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Random boobs in trading places. Yeah, so, you know. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting where it clearly goes to Kevin Bacon flipping out in the police station and going, yeah, you want to say that to my face? That's a good moment. Yeah, the security guard is like... What's happening? That's where I had Teresa Russell. I had Teresa Randall, easy. Yeah. Well, she's just the bad acting. I had, like, my daughter does not get raped.

1:30:31Nails, balls to the nearest wall. There's balls to the nearest wall. Flex category for Mal. So I was going to do the most gifable moment, but which is the cut to Ray's face as he's hiding and filming. Kelly and Susie kissing the wide eyes and then the glance down. But we've already talked about that so much. I'll go with an alt. I'll do the Sarah Connor Award for would modern technology ruin this movie. You already mentioned the ballistics. There is like a mention of, you know, the blood evidence and the blood match and the DNA and it'll take a couple weeks. So it's accounted for, but obviously the CSI tech of the day radically changes what the plot could be.

1:31:08But I'm talking more like text messages. It would have been screwed. DMs, cell phone tower pings. The nudes in the discovery process, all the texts. Internet search history. The plot falls apart in two seconds. Yeah, you're right. This movie can't happen. It doesn't work at all. They would have had to stick strictly to Snapchat. I don't know if they could have done it. Oh, weird. Their cell phones all pinged at the motel in the same room at the same moment. Odd. Like it's done. From the jump. You're on the signal trying to erase their text. I love my interrogation videos where they're sitting down talking to someone and they go, I wasn't there.

1:31:40And then the cops go, dude. Yeah. You had your cell phone with you. So we got you. Right. Legitimately five feet away from it happened. I was never there. Yeah, exactly. And then they go, here's how cell phone towers work. Yeah. It sends a signal here. We send the signal back. and then just like the life drains from the suspect's face. Modern technology turns this movie into the end of episode one of Adolescence. Yeah. Basically, it's just, oh, Susie, we have in your recent Google history how to pull out my own tooth. Yeah. It's destroyed all these cases except for the Karen Reed case, which somehow took two years to try to figure out and it's not going to another trial.

1:32:20It doesn't always work. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford's hottest take award. Do you have one, Van? I do not. The movie was so right in front of your face. I had trouble coming up with a hot take. I know Mallory didn't. They should have killed Sandra Van Ryan. That's just the better scheme. Just kill her and get the money that way. It is stated multiple times that you unlock the trust after she dies. Just kill her. Why do we need this convoluted, there are all of these secret duos inside of the trio, inside of the quartet? But kill her, take the money, and turn on each other then.

1:33:01Well, I take$8 million. I bet she's worth like$50. I bet it's like$60. Real estate heiress. Should have just killed her. Knock her off the balcony. My take might be too hot. Let's have it. I mean, mere weeks ago, Chris Ryan sat in this chair and said they should have just used the cello strings for murder. So I think you're safe. And by the way, it doesn't get hotter than Smells Like Teen Spirit isn't a good record. So just go for it. Rob, what the fuck? What the fuck? Wild. Hey, Nev Campbell, take your no nudity clause and find another movie. You actually asked. Okay. Find another movie. Guess what?

1:33:36You're invited to the barbecue. We're serving ribs and meat. And if you're a vegetarian, go find another party. I'm with it. Fuck it. You know what I mean? Know what you signed up for. I told you it was hot. I'm not with it. I'm with it. Triple Horn got busy? We talk about basic instinct. Sharon Stone is in there. Are we here to play basketball or are we here to just play pickup? Yeah.

1:34:07Again, that was the hottest take. Sure was. I have a backup hottest take if we have to tweet that one out. Bring the temperature down. I kind of think you survived it. I don't know. I'll fuck with you. Yeah, I think it's fine. Thank you. The Van Lathan Award for Did This Movie Need More Black People? Hell no. Perfect amount. This is one of the perfect amount. There's a couple black people in this movie. A couple black people in there. The cop, the guy at the school. Staying out of all of these motherfuckers' business. A couple people like the principal in school. Damn, Sam. Peace, bro. We really fucked with you.

1:34:44Take your teacher of the year trophy. Get the fuck out of here, man. Perfect amount. Casting what ifs. There's some good ones for this movie. The one, the Titanic one, I was shocked by. Downey? already? I didn't know the Downey one. So Robert Downey Jr. was supposed to be Sam and could not get insured. And he was having drug issues and they just couldn't pull it off. Is he great as Sam Lombardo? I don't think he can pull off seeming like a clean teacher at the beginning. I think he would know he's dirty immediately. I think his reputation would have preceded him in that regard. And I also think that while Downey, I think I think Sam Lombardo has to be a little bit more dashing than what Robert Downey is.

1:35:28He's handsome. He is handsome. He is handsome. And especially the young version of him at that point. I almost thought he would have made more sense in the bacon part. Oh, that's... Because he almost played that guy in U.S. Marshals. Yeah. And then like revealed to be embroiled in the scheme. I gotta say, I really like Matt Dillon in this movie. Matt Dillon's great. I think Downey's so great that he, I kind of feel like he could do anything well. So I certainly think he could have done this well. He has the like easy charm that Sam Lombardo needs to suck you in. And then you realize what's really afoot.

1:36:00No, he would have been great. But he's also just for the film. He's such an insanely incredible actor. Yeah. That you might have. It's too much firepower. You might have to worry about him laughing some people. That's true. Yeah. And that's not on Kevin Bacon because Kevin Bacon is a fucking great actor. Is he in a movie like this? Downey? what was the indie that he did two girls and a guy remember that one that was him Heather Graham and I cannot remember who else was in that joint we also have the Natasha Lyonne auditioning for Susie and not getting it and then Tara Reid auditioning for Kelly Van Ryan and not getting it Tara Reid would have been honestly a great Kelly I think trying to think so that same year as American Pie one year before American Pie is 99 right I think I don't know I think Denise Richards is perfect for this.

1:36:52Tara Reade was almost too young. Part of the problem with this is you almost needed the older actors playing high school students because it's basically softcore porn. Natasha Bix and Wagner was the other lady. I think that Denise Richards had that little twinkle in her eye, you know what I'm saying? Best that guy award. I'm going to obey Craig's rule that we're going too stealth with that guy's. Oh, interesting. So we'll just do Robert Wagner even though he's Robert Wagner. Come on, man. Well, for Craig's generation, he's number two from Austin Powers. What about Jeff Perry? The Jeff Perry, the guy.

1:37:27Yeah, the DA, right? Bryce Hunter. I tried, Craig. I tried to serve the under 30s. Nash Bridges scandal. Oh, that guy. Or the fucking. Corey Pentergas, Jimmy. The guy who is Nev Campbell's like surrogate uncle or whatever that gets the. Walter? Walter at the end of it. Isn't that guy and everything? Robert Wagner, though. The mom of Nev Campbell in this movie is like I don't even know what her name is but she's Again as the extended cut tells us Not actually her mom, not her grandma Not related to her at all There's a second Charlie Sheen connection to this movie Jennifer Taylor who plays the first girlfriend Of Matt Dillon has a long run In Two and a Half Men as Charlie Sheen's girlfriend Interesting Deanne Waiter's award just goes to Bill Murray We don't even need to This is the easiest one in a long time We should keep track of Is that the best D &W we're going to have in 26?

1:38:20That's some pretty good ones. That was so easy. So we're casting Couch Director City. I have a really good one for this, but did you have one? Are you going with director? No. There's an actor who missed, who would have been perfect for this movie, but was not old enough yet to be in the movie. For which role? Sam? For the Sam role? Nev Campbell's role. Not old enough. five years to be in the movie. This person, five years later, is perfect. Give me a hint. Kind of played this part in a different movie in the 0203 range, a version of it. Kind of played this part. Scarlett Johansson. Oh! In Neve Campbell's role?

1:39:04Yes. She is way too attractive, Bill. Did you ever see The Perfect Score with Darius Miles? I've seen The Perfect Score with Darius Miles. She basically plays this character in The Perfect Score she strips down she's a little gothy and I think she could have done it and I think she I think she would have even maybe improvised some stuff but the problem the problem is then it's going to become a tit off right and why is that a problem it's not a problem but it's like now you're now you're you're putting two of the titanics against each other Scarlett's like no nudity class fuck that whips that over her shoulder interesting but I thought I think that would have been that kind of energy, maybe, if you're trying to really jazz this movie up with the Susie character.

1:39:51You're moving that range. Craig, you have a flex category. Devil Wears Prada Award. Is this movie actually perfect for what it tried to do? Oh. I would argue 100 % yes. You know the meme, sometimes I forget, this is the whole point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of going around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you watch this movie, you're like, you know what? Sometimes I forget that this is all it's supposed to be. Great one. Great one. that's great just try to run the ball twice use a little play action and keep moving the chains yeah don't overthink it try to get into third and fourth third and three half-fax early research there's apparently a dead body that halted filming that sounded really fun they had to halt production for a second to get the dead body out of the swamp incredible and then so Kevin Bacon he also we talked about his no nudity clause how common are these no nudity clauses are they just standard when you're an actor like why would you need one though if you're if you're kevin bacon's interesting question if you're kevin bacon say i'm not getting naked what does it protect the actor from i didn't realize this was getting flash something developing on set that leads to like a you're feeling like you need to make a decision in real time i feel like i'd read a 5 000 word feature on the history of no nudity clauses, why they had to come up with this.

1:41:11Yeah. Well, I assume for some people it's like boilerplate part of their like contract language, their base agreement. And then maybe for some people it's like script specific. Oh, I'm doing an erotic thriller. I'm putting a note. Sharon Stone and The Specialist. I remember the sex scene had to be like storyboarded out for what she would do and wouldn't do after Basic Instinct. So I get it. But it's just interesting that he would have one. I don't really understand it. McNaughton's editor with the dick shot, who was a female said it's not fair you guys have seen after seen of topless babes this one's for us then they had to go ask bacon and uh who claimed he was fine with that i i have some thoughts i'm saving it for another category the best part of that that is that he was like how did i look right apparently you have to you have to ask that the film was retitled in france italy and Belgium.

1:42:01Sex crimes. Sex crimes. Not great. Because the original title didn't work. Film's final scene, Mallory mentioned this earlier, when Bill Murray shows up, it's because Peter Guber, legendary producer, the test screening, everybody loved Neve Campbell and Bill Murray. Ken Bowden. He was like, we should work them into the ending because they felt like the ending was missing one thing. So they worked it into the ending. That was that. It was missing one thing because they didn't let Ray and Sam fuck like they should have. Yes. Because if that makes the movie, I feel like if they do that, the movie is like an actual class.

1:42:37By the way, all he has to do is get in the shower and we're good. It's not like we need like... Get in the shower. You don't want to see it. No, I'm just saying, we didn't need the three minutes in the shower. You're saying he's just getting the shower and we're like, okay. Now I know what's going on. Get in the shower and then show them just like dropping the towel and then you cut away. But that's what I would have said to Matt Dillon. A hand going into the steamy glass. I'm not doing this. How about plan B? You get in the shower. My cheek would be great. Where are you guys on shower sex? Or pool sex.

1:43:06Water sex of any sort. I enjoy, I think for the first, because I'm going to ask you guys a sex question later too. I enjoy. Let's bring it HR. Bill, relax. You asked both of us to be on the same podcast. So this is your fault. I think I enjoy for about the first nine minutes and then you move out of the area of immersion. For the first nine minutes, just an incredible flex from him right there. Notice how he didn't say 10. It felt like 10 was too aggressive. For the first nine minutes, I enjoy. Then you have to switch locations. But it's only the first nine minutes. There are four minutes. Sting over here, baby.

1:43:45You guys have heard the lore. We're not even at Apex Mountain yet. Apex Mountain, Denise Richards, 100 % yes. Without a doubt. No question. Neve Campbell, probably yes too. Party of Five still on. coming off Scream. It's either Scream or this. Scream. She's still doing that role today. That's true. So you would say 96 Scream? Because I would argue this actually combined with Scream. Because this is right with Scream 2, right? But it didn't really lead to an awesome thing, so maybe not. Threesome scenes in a movie. I don't know if this was the best ever, but it was certainly the... The most ballyhooed.

1:44:19It was the Dr. J and the dunk contest. It's like, whoa, he dunked from the foul end. What the hell just happened?

1:44:29I didn't know a human could do that did I just see that correctly Kevin Bacon no Matt Dillon yes because of this and there's something about Mary I think this is yeah for sure he's got it all going Blue Bay Florida I'm going to say yes because this isn't a real place great name for a town Bill Murray no way no high school sailing teams maybe maybe can't remember that in another movie interesting Champagne being used where it seems like a gun but then it turns out to be champagne to kick off a threesome Sure Just a wonderful creative choice Cruz or Hanks? Cruz and Hanks Yeah That was my answer too Cruz is Sam Hanks is Ray We're not Everybody tries to change this way Then Cruz is Sam Lombardo Who is Matt Dillon?

1:45:16Cruz is Sam Lombardo Matt Dillon is Tom Cruise Tom Hanks has no place in this movie Tom Cruise Except opposite Tom Hanks opposite Tom Cruise if they're both hold up the photo again yeah exactly trying to picture Cruise here yeah yeah really trying yeah Cruise could be a great Sam Lombardo I think this is a year before Eyes Wide Shut I'm trying to think where he'd run though in this movie probably have to add that maybe he's jogging to or from a dock to get on a boat the car scene when the car pushes Matt Dillon's car off maybe he's jogging and the car pushes him off the road as a jogger that's a crazy scene he starts sprinting I love that Sam didn't factor that into the equation.

1:45:54That's one of the places. I had this as a picking nit. It's like not, it's a really unreasonable part of their pot. Like, wait, someone could kill me actually because of this. Also, that's where an alligator could have eaten someone could have eaten Frankie. Missed opportunity. Scorsese or Spielberg? This is Scorsese. No question, Scorsese. Best hang, worst hang. Bill Murray, best hang. Worst hang. Alligator guy? The guy putting teeth that he found in his mouth? Yes. Oh, Walter. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pickin' nits. I've got a few. I got one big one. What's your big one? Do y 'all stop fucking to answer the phone?

1:46:30With Sandra Van Ryan. Yeah. Like, I see this in every movie, right? To where the phone is ringing, and then somebody goes, oh, stop it, Scarlett Johansson. I gotta get that. What the fuck are you talking about? So in your first nine minutes, you're not answering the phone? I'm not answering the phone, period. Nine minutes, like, no way. You know what I'm saying? In the second, like, I'm not answering the phone, period. do y 'all stop having sex? Audience, think about this. You answer the phone, do you stop having sex? Well, so if it's three in the morning, you might think something terrible happened, but it wasn't three in the morning.

1:47:02No, this is in the middle of the day. If you have children in high school, it could be something. Yeah, because she's mother of the year, this one. Super worried about her kid and engaged with her kid's life.

1:47:13The only thing that I could think. No, it's stupid. It's a plot device. is that this is an era where this person called you doesn't exist. The missed call. I mean, they're answering machines, but like... Oh, you wouldn't even know what the call was. You wouldn't even know what the call was. But it's also the beeper era. It's also the beeper era. So you could let the call go because if it was important, someone would beep you. Okay. Offshoot question, real quick. Yeah. Who would have to be calling you? For you to answer? For you to answer. But how would you know? Bill is Daniel Ek. Oh, you could hear it on your answering machine.

1:47:48This is the answering machine era. So you let it go to... Hold on, it's Eck. You let it go to the answering machine and it's like, Bill, it's Daniel. So you hear it in the room. Then you have to stop and pick up, right? It's uncomfortable. We're announcing earnings tomorrow. We gotta get this. Right now, you wouldn't know. Yeah. Unless you stop to look at your phone. It's going right to voicemail. You're not gonna hear it. Yeah. I do have one personal story where this did happen. Gotta hear it. What? I'm debating whether to share it. This is a true story.

1:48:20What are we doing? This is true. Look at Craig. A certain young man who will remain nameless, I'll protect his identity. We were losing our virginity to each other. Holy hell. And the phone rang. And we were at his house, and we knew that his parents were coming home. So the phone rang, and it was like, better answer it just in case they're like, I'm downstairs with the groceries. But it was a real mood killer. Gotta say. Real mood killer. You got, but you got to pick that call up. You had to pick the call up. You had to. It was like, parents are out. We gotta, you know, we gotta. So when we do the movie, first nine minutes, let's make it count.

1:49:03But when they do the Freddie Mercury Queen movie, like the biopic when it's about Mal, that's like in the first 10 minutes. First 10 minutes. The losing the virginity gone wrong scene. That's the first scene of the movie. Yeah. Maybe he'll listen to this pod and he'll reach out Maybe his dad will listen to this pod She reaches out from unfinishedbusiness At gmail.com Nitpicks Does Kelly like her mom? Not like her mom? No, talk to her What's going on here? She's confiding in her No, she's using her She's not confiding to her She's lying in her She's using her as an aspect of the scheme So start getting back to an earlier mouth point Just kill her.

1:49:43Kill her then. Exactly. Just kill her and take the money. Clearly she blames her for the father's death. That seems apparent, right? I think that there's a version. Well, we'll talk about it later. But yeah, she hates the mom for sure. Yeah. All right. Then she should have killed her. And she is jealous because of the relationship between Sandra and Sam. Easy murder. Yeah. Yeah. There's just not enough time for the fake Susie death scene when we see the closing credits after. Yeah. where Denise Richards goes to get something from the car. In that time, they have to pull out two of her teeth. Right.

1:50:18And he has to not be able to do it effectively first. They kill her. Yeah. The fake bludgeoning. Which leads to my biggest nitpick. She lost two teeth. Then at the end of the movie, she's a full set of teeth. Well, they've got eight and a half million dollars, so she can probably afford some dental work. They don't have the money yet. Well, And where is she getting Dentor? She's supposed to be dead Hold on Can I have your insurance? No you can't Where were they? Weren't they in an island though? They're in the Caribbean They're in the Caribbean already Should she have been missing Two teeth? Wait a second I know what this is What?

1:50:51You don't think that Caribbean nations Have the expertise In dentistry To be able to fix her Like that This is internalized But how many weeks? I'm back already I'm back already I'm doing my job For the community Anguilla Barbados All of these places They got dentists too Bill It's two weeks Check your privilege It's two weeks. She's in hiding. Do you think she's like, you know, I know I'm in hiding, but these two missing teeth are driving me crazy. I gotta go get my teeth. I gotta risk it all to fix these two teeth. Yeah, she did it right after or right before getting the wig. You're not fixing your teeth until like a year later.

1:51:24I'm sorry. You're waiting a year. So you don't walk around with like one tooth missing out your shit. Yeah. It's her life of luxury. This is yacht life. She doesn't have the money yet. She doesn't get the money until the end. No, wait. Hold on. On the money front. This is one of my picking it. So it's related to your point. We got to dive into the money thing. The detectives look at the SunTrust bank account. And we see, and this is alluded to in the dialogue elsewhere,$327 ,000 to Playa properties,$160 ,000 to the yacht brokers to get the ship. So Sam is maybe okay. Like if that's all traceable, they would be able to find them is the point.

1:52:00Now, Sam elsewhere, he's like when he's still at the motel, I'm living life like a rich guy. I'm doing what rich guys are supposed to do. maybe he doesn't care if he's found but Ray goes and meets him there yeah Susie is there and hiding with him when she's supposed to be dead and is now on the boat well this is the other nitpick that could be traced to him how the fuck is she on the boat how is she on the boat yeah but it's all traceable that can be found right because he did have the money and he was spending it so they could trace that and find them but she had no money he tells Ray tells people though Ray tells he has all the money he says I have to spend I'm doing what rich guys do I'm going around I think the money that she gets in the end of the movie is the way they were able to take the money that was for Ray and transfer it to her but he's already dead so how did she get down there where did she stay he gave her the money because they're how did she fix her teeth so I want you to remember she's running him so it's very likely yeah he gave her the money that the offshore account that he puts the money in that she is that's their shared slush fund until she takes it all right Yeah.

1:53:05And where do you think they went? Like Barbados or somewhere? They're somewhere in the Caribbean, right? Somewhere in the Caribbean. Not easy to get to. What's the right... Guess what you need to get there? IDs. Well, guess what? They're all expert sailors. All right. So... Expert sailors. They actually probably... They could have sailed there. Yeah. They're in Florida. I don't think she's getting her teeth fixed until a year passes. I think she comes out. She looks like playoff hockey. Now, I tell you what... Like she looks like... I don't even know. Like Mark Messier. If they'd have done that, that would have been a scary scene.

1:53:35The better version of the movie shows her and when she smiles she's got two teeth missing and it's very frightening. The other one is Ray wasn't supposed to kill Kelly. That's what Matt Dillon said. Yeah, just supposed to frame her for the... Then he did. Then Sam said he screwed up the plan. But what was the plan? They weren't going to kill Kelly Van Ryan. They all have different plans. But if they weren't supposed to kill Kelly Van Ryan were they pinning the murders on her? Because she would have whistled them. She gon' tell. That's my biggest one as well. Yeah, because like, I think you have to assume even though Sam tells Ray you were just supposed to frame her, Susie would have killed her because the thing we learn is no loose ends, right?

1:54:15No loose ends. So they're not allowing Kelly to just go to jail for Susie's murder and rat them out at any point. No way. Kelly's, like, Kelly's testimony when she is brought in alive by Ray is going to be so damning I've been having sex with him for this amount of time yeah I was first in the 10th grade like yeah it's to leave her alive makes absolutely zero sense there's no way it all falls apart so he's probably lying yeah any other nitpicks shouldn't he have picked Kelly well I think that gets back to the like this is actually if you're trying to do like lit 101 kind of a story about class so it like makes sense that the two people who always felt like they were like you're trash from other members of Blue Bay would actually be aligned with each other and then she turns on Sam.

1:55:02That's fair. But the whole thing was that Sam wanted money and he was always trying to associate with it. Yeah, but he could have gotten even more. But that is another unanswerable question. It's again, or like part of the why not kill Sandra is kill her, take her money and then marry Kelly. He could have married Kelly. But the thing is is that none of this is Sam's idea. Sam is being activated by Susie. So Sam is She's got the photos. That word is a patsy. Sam is a patsy in the whole deal. So Sam actually has no motivation. Right. His number one motivation in all of this from this post-credits scene is self-preservation.

1:55:36Yes. Because she has pictures of him having sex with Kelly. Fucking Kelly and doing coke with Kelly. And that would have ended his career and his reputation around Blue Bay. Not that it was Sterling. She even convinces him she has a no nudity clause for the movie. Complete control. Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. So in 2006, apparently, they came up with a movie called Backstabbers that would have continued Susie's story. And Nev Campbell said it was a pretty cool script. She was growing up, had a kid with somebody, Bill Murray's character, blah, blah, blah. Wild things a generation later.

1:56:11Couldn't do it. Never happened. And then McNaughton was like, well, it could have been a streaming series. I actually think that would have been an interesting streaming series. I think this would be a really good Prestige TV, like six to eight episode season. I would be fired up. I would watch it. If like Hulu was like... Yeah, this is a good Hulu show. It's a good Apple show. don't take this out of the pod but let me say that part again I'd be fired up if Netflix no it would be a great it's sitting there for a streamer yeah um is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins Fergie the florist or the 19 other people who was mentioned for this category we can also skip it Wayne Jenkins as a dirty cop would be perfect here oh Davey you want to talk about Davey oh fantastic oh Wayne Jane Jenkins as Kevin Bacon?

1:56:59As Kevin Bacon. He could either be the Ray Dukat character or he could be another dirty cop who's looking into Ray. We could add yet another wrinkle. Because at the end, Gloria starts looking into Ray, right? She goes to see Walter and Ruby and she's like, what's up with this guy? Have we talked about how the other cop with Bacon and the woman has just like a hardcore Chicago accent? He sounds like he's in the bear. Who's the most famous sailor? Ever? In the history of the world? Like Ted Turner? Who's most known for sailing? Who's most known for sailing? Ted Turner? Let's say Ted Turner. Ted Turner?

1:57:34That would have been Wayne Jenkins in this. Oh, man! We got our own Ted Turner over here! Look at him! Big sailor! Sailing. Sorry, CR. Just one Oscar who gets it. The score? Yeah, the score's good. It's like an erotic thriller crossed with kind of fun. The score's good. What about Bill Murray? best supporting best supporting real quick sensei I have two unanswerable questions but I'll let you go I have two good ones there are like 100 but we've hit so many already okay so my unanswerable question I have a couple what sport did Sam Lombardo play at Miami I think it's baseball yeah baseball think it's baseball 100 % there's no way it's football there's no way it's basketball he carries himself like a baseball player probably left fielder pitched a little bit you don't think I think he was like a relief pitcher yeah you don't think that he could have been I don't know like a like a free safety?

1:58:27No. No. You don't think so? Not in Miami. In Miami? Absolutely not. That's his... I would have gone kicker and that's it for Miami. Or QB. I think baseball. If it was QB, he would have been known. Other one. Did Teresa Van Ryan, is that her name? Sandra Van Ryan. SVR. Did she actually kill the father? I think that's... I think that's assumed. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Or something... It's like, oh, he killed himself. the big yeah his death is a big unanswerable question so something but or was it her or was it one of her lovers did sam lombardo yeah was it one of her lovers or can she convince the lover to kill him yeah something like that for sure what'd you have about who took the photos of sam and kelly fucking and snorting coke that suzy shows great oh always a great question for these movies.

1:59:20Who took those pictures? Was it Susie herself? Was it Bill Murray? Was it Ken Bowden? In from the jump? Was it Walter? That's probably who it was. Probably Bill Murray. Did she have another secret accomplice? Does someone out there still know it? Bill Murray. On the Bill Murray front, on the Ken Bowden front, we get kind of the Bruce and Alfred at the end of Dark Knight Rises cafe scene at the end. I got that one. Did you get that one? Yeah, I like that movie. It's a great, great film. Is the soda of hers that he takes a sip of when she walks away also poisoned? No loose ends. Did Susie also kill Ken?

2:00:04I feel like they have... I think so. I think they have a bond of people that got shit on in Blue Bay. I think the reason why they're connected is because they're Blue Bay trash. I think that the less my usual feline points to a depth of history there and shared experience, but the boy, I hope I never make you mad. I have a good one that Craig's really going to like. So these movies when somebody escapes right? Yeah. Trading places, Shawshank, this movie, whatever it is. They always end up in some resort on a beach. And it's always like, I'm going to get my money. I'm going to end up in some weird place.

2:00:42Nobody will know who I am. The White Lotus. I'm going to have like a cocktail. Right. White Lotus. No, but there's never a ski mountain. They never mix up the locations. Nobody's like, I'm going to go to Whistler. Nobody's going to find me. It's always, like if somebody escapes, all you have to do is go to like Barbados, St. Bart's, Cabo Hawaii just go fucking look for them in like 10 luxury hotels you're gonna find them quickly I mean again if they go to Hawaii then they're a fucking moron because that's in the United States of America good point cross YF well but this is literally the Greg Gary from White Lotus it is like it's just I'm in a nice like tropical locale nobody ever just goes I'm gonna go cold nobody everyone will think I'm going warm I'm going the other way I'm gonna go outside Vancouver and I'm gonna get an awesome ski cabin someplace in Switzerland And I'm going to be dressing like warm clothes the whole time with hats on.

2:01:31Nobody will grow a beard. A mug of hot cocoa. Yeah. Hanging out. Comfortable pajamas. I'd like to see that wrinkle in a movie. I love that. All right. This is the most important thing I've done in a podcast with the two of you. Oh, my God. I need to really put my foot down on fluffing your own cock before a nude scene when you're a man. Yeah. And this is why I think Kevin Bacon, the no nudity clause, I don't believe it. Interesting. Okay. That thing's coming out. It's like at a 45 degree angle. But he's moving. it seems like it's moving with the movement of him turning for the towel there's some life in it he puffed it up he knew it was gonna be on camera it wasn't like hanging like a dick it was this is the salt burn guy same thing fucking salt burn guy was in the trailer like half fluffing himself for 10 minutes to get ready to run around the salt burn mansion wouldn't you?

2:02:17I'm not against it I'm just saying this is the case for I actually think it is answerable I think Kevin Bacon knew his dick was gonna be in the movie cause he fluffed himself okay counterpoint Yeah. Even if he doesn't know that it's going to be in the movie, there are a bunch of people on set who are going to see his dick. So you still want to, yeah. You still, a lot of people, they're going to see the cock. If you're not going to see the movie, and if his dick's not going to be in it. Yeah, I'm going to see the cock. That's a white word. Like, is, is, is, is, is. I can't. Like, his dick, even if everybody sees it, so you want it to look, okay, okay, okay.

2:02:53The director, the assistant director, the cinematographer, the other performers the group coordinators the gaffers the whiter Kevin Bacon has a no nudity clause why can't he just be in like a like a little bikini that's a better question to borrow I'm not gonna see his dick why do I have to see his dick or you can just shoot him uh yeah you don't need the full body shot I have no nudity clause put my fucking speedo on you guys might have been familiar with this term I just learned it from the really excellent still ongoing heated rivalry press store that Hudson Williams and Connor Story are doing and Hudson Williams referred to was asked about you know filming these scenes and said you have a cock sock.

2:03:28Modesty pouch. Sure, but that's a very polite way of saying it. Cock sock. Gets right to the point. Could have worn a cock sock. Could have done that. Cock sock. All kinds of things. He obviously wanted, he knew what was happening. Yeah, he knew. Well, good for him. I don't think I've ever had bacon on the podcast. You're going to ask him? But if he came in and he's sitting right there in Mal's chair, it's like we're talking about, he thinks we're talking about new, but I got to start here, Kevin Bacon. Yeah. This whole thing in Wild Things where you claim they, you weren't going to see. You wanted us to see it, Kevin.

2:03:58Just fucking admit it right now. I have another piece of evidence to add to this. He went back to the well. Hollow Man. That's right. Showed it again. Showed it again in Hollow Man. Proud of his cop. Hollow Man. It came out of nowhere. He was... Just own it, Kevin Bacon. He was kind of like in the heat vision of the Hollow Man thing. Yeah, the infrared. The cop comes out in Hollow Man. I have another question off this. Neve Campbell, no nudity clause because party of five, they didn't want her to be in a thing like this. Why not? The show had shitty ratings. This would have been the greatest thing that ever could have happened to Party of Five, that she was in a movie like this.

2:04:33All it did was make more people want to watch Party of Five. You know what? I think about that, too. Remember, if we go back to Angel Heart, remember they kicked Lisa Bonet off? That was different. Yeah. You know. That was America's family. Yeah, they were like, get the fuck out of here. The Huxtables were the most important family in America. Okay, you couldn't have her riding Mickey Rourke. Covered in blood? Covered in chicken blood? I think it would have been, I actually wasn't familiar. To me, it felt like Party of Five was some kind of cultural phenomenon. Everybody was talking about Party of Five.

2:05:06Let everyone do what they want. Watch Party of Five if you want to. Kevin Bacon, just come clean. Keep your shirt on if you want to. We have Zach Sander, release the cut. Like, release the truth, Kevin Bacon. I mean... Was Party of Five, How Do We Talk to an Angel? How Do I Talk to an Angel song? No. What show was that? no party what was the party of five no there was a guy that had a song and the song was like he played a part in the show and then the song from the show that was Jamie Walters Jamie Walters yeah that wasn't party of five how do you talk to an angel yeah yeah I haven't thought about that what was the party of five song now that's gonna drive me crazy I haven't watched that oh whatever we gotta wrap this up what piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie two candidates champagne bottle champagne bottle three candidates I would want Sam's Educator of the Year trophy.

2:05:56I just think that's so funny. Sam Lombardo. I saw that. It's got the big bowl with the Sam Lombardo on it. Yeah, and then, of course, it shatters, but Educator of the Year is just hysterical. By the way, why was his last name Lombardo? He's not Italian. Where'd that come from? You feel like he was an Italian? Where's your host, Mr. Lombardo? I don't know. Lombardo's an Italian name. Could that not be Cuban? Maybe it's Cuban. What'd you have, Val? Susie's two teeth. The two teeth in the little... Oh, just put them right behind you on the window. Do you have one? Susie's wig. Oh, yeah. That's a good one.

2:06:29And the obvious one is the champagne bottle. Terrible wig. Coach Finstock, Mr. Miyagi Award, best or worst life lesson. People aren't always what they appear to be. Don't forget that. Also, to large accounts and no loose ends. Best of feature choice? I think Cruel Intentions. They're just so of the moment to me. I went sliver. I actually went back and watched Sliver after I watched it it's just terrible terrible movie ridiculously bad can I tell you something? aged terribly as well most of these movies are not as bad when you watch them now Sliver is nearly unwatchable I'll see how it happened saw it in the theater with Joe House incredible yeah came to visit me in Boston for a few days we were like let's see Sharon Stone what a beautiful friendship you two have had over the years the things we've shared my double feature choice is Masquerade with Rob Lowe I've never seen that which is the most underrated erotic thriller of the 80s and 90s borderline rewatchables but it's too obscure interesting Rob Lowe Kim Cattrall oh yeah Meg Tilly I don't fuck what year was this oh man watch it this weekend how did I miss this it's great it's sailing and it's like it's like Nantucket Newport maybe you know this movie oh Newport's really having a moment right now thanks to the Gilded Age.

2:07:47This is a thumbs up erotic thriller. And wedding people. What year is this? I'm going to say late 80s. 88. How the fuck did... I never even heard of it. I don't know how I missed this. Honestly, to be classic. Sounds like a future rewatchable. Who won the movie? It's either down to Denise Richards or Kevin Bacon's dick. Oh. He's eligible. I got Denise Richards. I have Denise Richards as well. Iconic. Iconic. Dana Delaney as well. Dana Delaney. fans watching this tonight Craig what do you got just about everything you want in a movie just has it all checks every box every twist kind of to be honest genuinely caught me by surprise I was like oh that's the last twist and then there was another one I was like that's the last twist and then there was another one just like raw entertainment at it's core very raw great jeep I don't think we talked about the jeep that he drives great jeep also an unbelievable era for Jeeps.

2:08:46Love a vacation Jeep. Anytime I'm on vacation you rent a car, I love to rent a Jeep. Yeah. Not very non-practical car. Yeah, it makes no sense. Like here, but when you're in the islands, it's perfectly practical. I love famous, talented people doing B movies. I just think that's the best. You have the most fun. Everyone's not taking it seriously, but they're still talented. I love it. It's the kind of movie like Affleck tried to do this with that movie with Ananda Armas. Oh, yeah. But it's not a fun movie. it's just kind of this dark weird sex comedy never saw it not sex comedy sex drama you know what movie I'm talking about this movie is not trying to take itself too seriously like every time they do this they go too dark and they try to make it like an exploration or blah blah blah and they forget the fun part the guy who did Fatal Attraction, Adrian Lyne so like when you do a film like this you kind of have to be really okay with the identity of the movie it can only be so smart because sex is dumb.

2:09:46It's a primal instinct that we have that there are all types of societal complications around. Up to nine minutes. Just the first nine minutes. First nine minutes. Y 'all tell it on yourselves. No. Okay. We're just absurd that you went out of your way to say first nine minutes. That's all. And not ten. So it's like it's very complicated societally. It is. and there's a lot around safety and around appropriate. But like when you're doing this movie and these characters are like motivated by this thing that you can't really stop, the movie can only be so smart. It can only be so deep. It has to be surface level to a degree.

2:10:27And we're kind of afraid to talk about sex in that way. Also, some of the beauty of these movies is that, I don't know if you want to call it camp, but oftentimes camp is authentic. They don't know they're making a campy movie when they're making it. And then it ages into that genre. Fantastic point. Definitely. So it's tough now because I think everyone is so aware. The internet, you get an immediate review. It just feels like it's harder to make something like this genuinely as opposed to trying to make it campy. Well, that was like the Starship Trooper story. I don't know if this is apocryphal or not.

2:10:58Great movie. That Casper Van Diem was the only person who didn't know it was a campy movie. And they made him take it completely seriously and he had no idea what was actually happening. I don't know if that was true, but I always thought like kind of people have to buy in. It's like an airplane and a naked gun in those movies when they hire real actors to be in some of the parts. Sure. Anyway. Van Lathan. Yep. First nine minutes, Van. Thank you. Great nickname. Where was Pride? Wonderful to be here as always. Incredible performance by you. Wonderful to be here as always. Craig, a pleasure as always.

2:11:33Never know if it'll be the last podcast we all get to record. Watch y 'all get some mail. I was with him. Let me tell you it's some bullshit. It was the same. In the hot tub. You think you're going to get fact-checked? First nine minutes Van is going to get fact-checked? Van, email us, please.

2:11:53Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. Don't forget, if you like the rewatchables on Netflix, you can just click us on my list. Every time we do an episode, it'll come up. But also watch us on Spotify as well. Thanks, guys. Good to see you. Very fun.

2:12:14We'll see you next time.