Hour 1:  Guest Host O’Shea Jackson Jr, Spurs-Thunder Game 6 Reactions, plus ESPN’s Ramona Shelburne

22:07Like, you know, I'm always working on stories, so I'm trying to figure out how the heck, of all the people who wanted to be the Knicks savior, of all of them, like Phil Jackson came to New York, and I'm like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to bring us back. Like we haven't won a championship since I was here as a player. Mello, Jeremy Lin, Mike D 'Antoni tried to coach. Everybody's come to New York trying to win. And the one guy who's brought them back is this six-foot-two point guard who was a second-round pick out of Villanova. Like how did that happen? And I think the answer is that he never sought out to be the savior of the Knicks.

22:40Like he just shows up and he works and he plays and he's solid. And he's got that Jeter kind of thing where you don't get too high, too low. He's super poised and have all these big moments. That's why he's clutch player of the year. That's why he's, you know, look, I mean, that's about the most emotion you're going to see from him right there. Yeah. And it was after the game. And even after, you know what they were listening to after the game? I think they all, I think a few of them went to see the Michael Jackson movie when we were on the road. So Jalen had control of the Oxbox and they were just playing Michael Jackson songs in the, in the locker room afterwards.

23:11Like, come on, man. You remember the time? That's what I, that's what I heard when I walked in there. I was like, okay, you guys,

23:18O’Shea Jackson Jr.:you guys are in a good place mentally and it's a lot it's a lot of pressure on them you know a city like new york i keep bringing up the knicks fans and the knicks fans how they're just insane people have to realize the knicks have not won a championship since four years after martin luther king was assassinated and four years before the last guillotine execution that's a long time That's been a long time. That is insane. Where did you pull that from, Che? Che knows stuff about things. I got a random fact. I never know if that's actually true, though. You just, like, make things up, too. No, I promise you.

23:54O’Shea Jackson Jr.:You can look it up. I'm waiting for people to fact check me. The last guillotine was in 77, and then Martin Luther King was in 69. Okay. It's just how things are. I'm sorry, Knicks fans, but, like, you know, you got your two or when the garden was eaten and all that. But I am rooting for them because it can't be. It can be my rivals, the Spurs, or the annoying referees favorites, the Oklahoma City Thunder. Well, look, I think also with the Knicks, you know, you said there's a lot of pressure on them. I actually don't feel that. Like when I'm, for every other superstar who plays in New York, there is pressure.

24:31But Jalen Brunson is literally playing for his dad and for his godfather. Like the one place that he could go where there isn't pressure is where there's family there. These guys believe in him. They've known him since he was a baby. Like, Leon Rose was Rick Brunson's – Rick Brunson was Leon Rose's first client. First client. Rick Brunson had, like, not really any options coming out of Temple. He played in Australia. Leon Rose was this, like, law student at Temple who was, like, a super fan. John Chaney was like, Rick, why don't you go with this guy? You know, I mean, they've been together for 40 years as an agent and coach and player.

25:11And now his son is on the team. Like, there's not a lot of pressure on Jalen Brunson there. He's super comfortable.

25:17O’Shea Jackson Jr.:I love it for him. You know, I brought up the Oklahoma City Thunder, and I know you hear the chirps. Well, mostly for them. But, yeah, the chirps about, you know, the flopping and things like that. I have a question I want to ask you that we spoke about just a minute ago. Of course. Whatever happened to those$5 ,000 fines for flopping? Yeah, they did used to have those. You're right. I mean, he should owe like$2.5 million. But listen, have we not watched James Harden during those Houston years? Like every player, like James Harden was a foul merchant back in those days, and he won MVPs. Like this is what great players do.

25:57Like they learn how to get those calls. The only ones that I think, like, I mean, you know this, Shane, you're a Laker fan. Like Shaq never gets calls, right, because he's so big. People just bounce off him. So people just foul him like crazy all the time and figuring like, If we foul him 100 times, they can only call like 80 of them. Well, at least there's 20 that we can still foul him, okay? Shea is good at being fouled and then selling the call and also knowing how to make sure that they do foul him. I think there's an art form to it. But I also think, and this is what I'm watching in the Thunder, they don't have J-Dub.

26:29I know people are talking about this as like some referendum on Shea and is he truly a great player or whatever. No, they don't have their second best player. like he doesn't have help right now and chet holmgren is not offensively that kind of a force we have to respect him i thought in the in the way that you would with the j-dub or even an aj mitchell who's a great driving kick point guard when you don't have two of your best like outlet valves like it's all on you and so i think he's looking a lot like anthony edwards looked against the thunder when they would just everybody at him and they would try to get the ball out of his hand And then it's like, how good is your team to hit shots around you?

27:05I know you must be conflicted because the Thunder have Caruso on their team.

27:09O’Shea Jackson Jr.:Yeah, I don't like that. But he already got two. You know, Josh Hart and Jordan Clarkson get some love around here. Okay, okay. What if it's Alex Caruso against Josh Hart in the next round? What if the Thunder went? How are you going to sort through your emotions there, Jay? Oh, I do not want the Thunder to win anything else. I have gone full on just, you know, completely against them. and, you know, they accept the role. It's, I don't want to be a hater, but you make me. You know? You do want to be a hater. Come on, I got to call you out on that. Yeah, it makes great TV. It makes great TV. You would love being a hater.

27:45Like, I see you on Twitter.

27:48O’Shea Jackson Jr.:Hey, you want to see a real hater comment? The only people that get all the calls are Shea Gildress Alexander or Bam Adebayo when he's up 30 on the Washington Post. Oh, there it is. That's the only people that can get calls around here to get every call they want. Unbelievable. My co-hosts, they have questions about actual NBA topics, not just me being a hater. You guys, Ramona Shelvin. I like that everyone has forgotten that Bam's – I don't even remember what the actual number was. It was 83. I've forgotten about it already. Because I've never seen it before. So, yeah, I'll always remember that.

28:23Clipper fan, TJ Jefferson, by the way. 83. There it is. Ramona, what is going on with Giannis? and the latest there because I know there are some cities with teams that are very interested in his potential future basketball playing home. I got to say something. I think as much grief as the Milwaukee Bucks took for not trading Giannis the last year and a half, we all were like, they probably waited too long. The best offer is already because he only has one more year guaranteed under contract. This postseason I think has completely reframed the trade discussions for Giannis because of how good Victor Wimbanyama and the Spurs are, every single person watching these playoffs says, oh, maybe we better get Giannis.

29:06Like, oh, maybe we need that guy. Like, I don't know how we're going to compete with the Spurs for the next five to ten years if we don't have another star like Giannis. And so I think they might have looked into some better offers because there's a lot more teams that have motivation to go trade for Giannis Antetokounmpo to try to compete with the San Antonio Spurs and this looming giant who is going to dominate the league for the next 10 years. Who's got the most motivation? I think the Miami Heat were very motivated at the deadline. I think Milwaukee liked their offer at the time. They just weren't ready to trade Giannis, so I'm sure they'll get back involved.

29:44I would look at a team like Orlando. They're close. They made a move already. They're going to get a new coach. They have some good young pieces. But also, I'm wondering out West. I mean, I know that you know the Warriors are going to be there, right? They're going to try again on Giannis. Their offer is what their offer is. I don't know that they can necessarily sweeten it. And then their first-round pick didn't end up being very good this year. I mean, it's still a lottery pick, but it's an upper lottery. But I think there'll be some teams that come out of the woodwork that now have seen what's going on out west.

30:18Like, I think the Cleveland Cavaliers, let's look at them. You know, if you saw what you saw this postseason, You know how far away they are. I don't know that just a year together and letting these guys grow together is enough. That feels like a team that could get more involved. I know they'll kick the tires a little bit before. What is Philadelphia going to do? We don't know who's running Philadelphia yet. But that's a team that has good young players that Milwaukee would be interested in. So I think this market for Giannis is going to take shape probably before the draft or around the draft.

30:51And when people have their picks, they have more that they can offer Milwaukee. And I think having talked to Wes Edens and Jimmy Haslam myself a couple months ago, and then hearing Jimmy Haslam go on the record with all the reporters after they hired Taylor Jenkins and say, you know, we need some resolution by the draft. I think they're more in a place to wrap their head around trading their franchise guy. This guy has led them to a title. I think they're more in that place because you don't trade a star unless everybody in your organization is on board. You have to be ready for that. You have to know exactly what you want out of that trade.

31:24You have to have organizational direction. And I think the way this season played out, the way their ownership situation is evolving, I think they're finally getting to that place where they can wrap their head around trading him. What is the package? Is it players total picks? Is it like eight combined picks and players? It might be. I mean, look, the Warriors offered four unprotected first. Four. That's a lot. And they said no. Like, they said no to four. I know we're always going to talk about Mikael Bridges and how they got five first for that. Sure, sure, sure. I don't think that's happening in this day and age, especially not with the way the lottery's been reformed.

32:04It's going to be interesting to see how that affects how many picks teams are going to put in, what kind of protections they're going to put in. That's going to change some things. But I think it's going to be a combination of picks, of good young players, and then you're going to have to have a salary that matches it. So there's only a few teams that can get there, but I feel like there are a lot more motivated teams now with how this postseason has gone. Ramona, I've got two things for you as well. One of them was Shaq came on the show earlier this week with Susan. And without getting into this, I am a Philadelphia 76er Los Angeles Clipper fan.

32:44I heard you mention the Sixers and maybe as a Giannis. gross destination i'm not even combination how are you a sixers and a clippers okay well go ahead well i'll give it to you grew up in pennsylvania dr jay who's on this poster right behind me my favorite he's my goat moved to la in 99 didn't want to hop on the laker bandwagon because i was like people won't like that that's right and they played the lakers all the time yeah so i'm like all right i'll i'll take the clippers uh that is not worked out for me i asked shack i said do you foresee a future where I might have a chance to have the same feelings that these New York Knicks fans are feeling with either of these franchises?

33:22He nodded his head yes and he said, you see what I'm doing? He goes, no, it's not like this. No, you have no chance. Give it up. So I'm going to ask you, since you're here, you know about the Clippers. Yeah. Do, as a 26-year, 27-year Clipper fan, do I have any chance of feeling what the guys are feeling in the bodegas in New York right now about my team? What's your time frame? Before I die. Before you die? So this could be next year. It could be an hour after the show. I don't know. I hope I get another 40, 50. I don't think it's going to be next year. I mean, look, they're in the process of a rebuild.

34:00They got one more year of Kawhi Leonard. Let's see if he's still on the team starting next season. I know there's teams that have called on him. But they will stay competitive. I don't think they're going to completely bottom out in terms of trying to tank and draft picks, because they still owe some to Oklahoma City, right? But also, I think they don't want to necessarily be terrible, and they've gotten some good young players. But I think that window, you got cap space, but who are they getting? Nobody signs as free agents anymore. You got to trade for somebody. So I think they're a ways away.

34:32And last time you had cap space and you got Kawhi Leonard and Paul George. Yeah.

34:37O’Shea Jackson Jr.:Yeah. I don't know. We all saw what happened from you getting Paul George. You made the thunder. Maybe I truly should be a Thunder fan if you think about it. Gross. And lastly, Ramona, I'm very confused. I'm not a dummy, but I don't understand this whole anti-tanking thing. And I started reading up on it. And I was like, you know what? I knew you were coming on today. I figured maybe I just asked you to break it down for me because obviously you know way more than I do. Yeah. Look, essentially what they're trying to do is incentivize teams to actually compete during the season. because the last third of this season kind of sucked.

35:18You literally could predict who was going to win each night based on who was tanking. There's so many teams that were incentivized to tank, and so it's now a little, the odds are flattened for all the lottery teams. And then also there's not a huge incentive to be one of the worst teams. And something Adam Silver said, this is the best thing, this is the easiest way to describe it. Like, because everyone was tanking, you're not sure that the worst team actually gets the worst record because they might just be the best tankers. Right. They might just be the best at getting dudes out of the G League or Bosnia or, you know, the Philippines to come play on a 10 day and call it an NBA team for a night.

36:00Like some of the rosters that we saw the last the last month of the season were like, I've never heard of some of these guys. I'm like, where did he play in college? I don't remember. like I mean it was where did they get where that guy come from and and there's just too much of that it's not good for the game it's not good for teams that are trying to win they're playing these teams or like it's a sketch well if you had a game against the Grizzlies in March that's a different as a game against the Grizzlies in November right that's not really fair um to competitive balance but it's also not fair to the fans who are watching these teams the television partners etc and so they're just incentivizing teams to not completely make a mockery of the last third of the season.

36:38Does that work for you? Because the teams that have the worst records, we don't know that they're the worst teams. That's what the lottery was supposed to do. It was supposed to give the worst team the best chance. But we're just giving the best tankers the best chance. Okay.

36:51O’Shea Jackson Jr.:Does that work? Pretty solid. She knows her stuff. Yeah, she does. That's one of the reasons why I love Momo. She went to Stanford slash Cal, though. I have a funny Ramona story. I have a funny Ramona story. She will have no idea. She won't remember. I think it was like 2019. You were here on the eyes and show you came in studio about a week later. I'm in New York for something. I think the show went to New York. It's dark. I'm on some street corner. It's dark out and I see her walking towards me. So here's my big six, three, 260 pounds. So I go running up to her like, hey, Ramona, I'm teaching from Rich I just show you were just on.

37:26And she was like, oh, OK. And then I realized, oh, yeah, I just ran up into this woman in the dark street.

37:35I was promoting the podcast. I think that's what I was doing. I was watching the podcast. Like I said, you wouldn't remember, but I do. I was like, oh, okay. Maybe I should have just walked up. But I was very excited. Was I with my niece? I brought my niece to New York. You were with someone. It was another. Yeah. I brought my 13-year-old niece to New York with me on that junket. We were all over town doing all the promotion for the podcast that we were doing. And so, yeah, I don't that whole trip is kind of a blur. Yeah, you wouldn't remember, but I did run up on you and it was like nice. Hopefully I was nice.

38:08You were very nice. You're like, oh, OK.

38:11O’Shea Jackson Jr.:One of my well, I got I got two favorite Ramona stories. No, no one dangerous me, me and Momo and Steve Mason. Shout out to Steve Mason. Yeah, we you know, the Jeannie bus episode of the show. That was amazing. That was when Mason and I, Jeannie came in and sat in and I just, I never thought I'd have an opportunity like that. But my favorite Momo story, I was courtside back with – it was Kobe's last season. Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook were on the thunder. I'm giving – by the way, I'm giving Kevin Durant the business, like, most of the game. You were like the Lakers Spike Lee. Yeah, I was on the floor just, like, grilling them.

38:54O’Shea Jackson Jr.:And it was halftime, and I think I was either talking to you I was talking to you or my agent, and I felt a hand hit me on the shoulder, and it was Kobe. And he said, oh, you finally made it down here. And I dapped up Kobe. And when I dapped him up and hugged him, I closed my eyes. You're like the Jon Hamm meme? You're like, oh, man, I've been waiting for this for a long time. Ramona comes up behind me. You know, I saw that.

39:27But you know what? you did so much better. Okay. I had my moment. We all get these celebrity moments at Laker games, right? Yeah. So mine was with Jack Nicholson and I was like, it's, I've always wanted me Jack Nicholson. It was Shaq's Jersey retirement. He was like a presenter for this. Right. And so I'm on the court and we all kind of walk out through the tunnel after the presentation on the court. And somehow I find myself shoulder to shoulder with Jack Nicholson. I'm like, okay, this is your moment. Like we're going to, We're going to have a connection here, and I'm going to remember it forever.

39:59He's probably going to forget it in five minutes, but let me just say something good so that I'm not weird. And the only thing that popped into my head was, so is Jack your favorite Laker?

40:15Wow. And Jack looked at me in the way Jack looks at you, and he goes, no. And I was like, okay. Great. No follow-up. We just kept going. I just kept walking. I was like, that was it? That was not good. That was not good for my one. Yours is so much better. You didn't do anything embarrassing except the thing I saw. And then we called a national TV audience. But like, I mean, is Shaq your favorite leaguer? That's all I could come up with? Terrible.

40:49O’Shea Jackson Jr.:Real quick, before we let you go, you know, is anything going to happen about this Steve Ballmer what's going on man you know I really feel like this is getting swept under the rug and Ramona is my go to for Clipper trouble so like what's happening what's happening okay so they're just investigating forever and ever and ever and I think actually quite frankly I think the bar is quite high now because Pablo Torre won himself a Pulitzer for his investigation. Nice to see you. So I think they've got to really make sure. They've really got to get this right. And I also think, I mean, Shane, you know how these things go.

41:32Like the NBA, there's an investigation going on, but nobody's going to – they're not going to drop the results of this in the middle of the NBA playoffs. Like that's such a huge distraction for the rest of the league. I think when they didn't – when nothing came out before the end of the season, I was like, okay, we'll talk to you in August. you know, July, August, whatever it is. And who knows, maybe they'll take even longer, but I don't think we see anything. It just wouldn't make sense from a health of the league standpoint. Plus, there's a whole process that you have to go through. I know that they've done interviews with most of the principals by now.

42:11You know, my question and from what I gather, I think it started with aspiration, but I think the questions have expanded into a lot of other things. That'll be interesting to see how far back they go. I know they did one investigation back in 2019. They closed that, but they said if any new evidence comes up. So I think they're just digging and digging and digging and digging and then reinterviewing people, then trying to find more people. The only thing I can tell you, which I think is important, is that it's about who cooperates with the investigation. They don't have subpoena power. They can't get your phone records unless you work for the team.

42:51I mean, if you work for the team, you have to turn things over. But my sense is they started getting a lot more cooperation about January. So the first three, four months that they were getting some level of cooperation. Then in January, February, they started getting more. And then when you find one thing out and you start asking other questions, it opens other doors. So I think this is a fairly comprehensive investigation that's going on. you know I think the Clippers from what I understand like from what it feels like they still maintain every time they're asked about it you know we don't think we did anything wrong here we don't think they're going to find what is being alleged here so we'll see where this comes out but I would expect this will this will I don't I don't expect this to drop during the NBA finals I know it's been a long time we're all waiting to hear but if you if you remember this really was like a September story, so we're not even a year.

43:43And when you have lawyers investigating, it takes a long time. They got billable hours, you know.

43:48O’Shea Jackson Jr.:Ramona Shelburne, everybody, the great, the great Ramona. Thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate you so much. As our Friday segments go, that was actually fairly tame. Neither of us are going to get fired. It's good. Good seeing you. See you, Ramona. The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast.

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44:58I'll see that.

44:59O’Shea Jackson Jr.:I'll see that. I got to meet Jack, man. I know you got a cool Jack story, but I need a cool Jack story. I've got an all-time Jack story. We got to animate that. Not here for Disney. Not a Disney story. When TJ's true Hollywood stories finally come out, I will put that on there, and it's a great one. I hear we got some footage of that Wimby Nyama fit. Yeah, you were talking about Wimby's fit. I didn't see this. Like Shaolin Monk style. Yeah, man, let me see it. Man, boy, he swagged out still. That looks so comfortable. 100 percent my goodness that could probably fit across my entire king-sized bed 100 percent i could and uh my man dylan harper who i think is the star of the game he was asked about it let's let's take a look at that you see him come in with uh i don't know if you saw the shallon monk robe and i've seen it and he's at he's animated like that you know before the game did you kind of have a feeling he was gonna you know come out that hot of a start yeah i mean i We all had a bad taste in our mouth after the last game.

46:01We felt like we left a lie on the table, and that's just what Vic do. I think that's the type of guy he is. You know, man of his word. So when he kind of came with the outfit, I think everyone knew what was going to happen.

46:14O’Shea Jackson Jr.:That man meant business. It's a statement. Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, we've seen the NBA guys come in with some wild stuff. Yeah. This is a man that was about his business last night. He looked comfortable, you know, like. I hope I don't get to the point where I'm mad at him too. You know? Oh, you will be. Oh, what do you mean? Because he's going to eliminate the Lakers from the playoffs multiple times. I'm not listening to the Clipper and Celtic tell me about that. Well, it's what's going to happen. I'm just not. There's a level of respect that I have for certain guys that I'm like, even when we lose to them, it's like I still tip my cap to them.

46:54Yeah, but you're Petty Guerrero, so you won't like it. Thank you, man. Radio, we'll be right back.

47:27the NBA Finals. Don't miss it. June 3rd on ABC and the ESPN app.