Hour 1: Guest Host Suzy Shuster Talks Knicks’ Cavs Sweep, plus Chris “Mad Dog” Russo

22:22They got a good draw. You know, Indiana last year was a very good team. This, these group of teams were not good. They got a good draw. And sometimes God plays in the games. You know, they got, they got a good flow going. Sometimes it's your time for your team. And, you know, I've seen it in sports with a lot of teams. Start with the Giants when they beat the Phillies in a World Series and beat the Texas in a World Series in 10. Won their first championship. I felt all through the playoffs the Giants were going to get lucky and win. 96 Yankees felt that. Sometimes it's maybe just your year, and I think there's a little something to that here with this Knick team.

22:55And Brunson, of course, you know, he's a great clutch player in big spots. You know, he's not the greatest Knick of all time. That's ridiculous. he's not he's not he's not Willis Reed who won two championships beat Wes Baylor and Wilt Chamberlain for crying out loud made the first two shots in game seven he's not Clyde one of the all-time greats who won two titles too he's not on that level uh but and I don't even think he's on the Ewing level oh but I mean not right now he's not how about winning a championship first you know Ewing got the two finals how about winning a championship plus Ewing had to beat Jordan had to beat Hakeem Olajuwon.

23:34I mean, he had to get through Jordan all the time. One of the great, plus he got burned with a terrible decision with that fight with the Heat. I mean, Ewing was star-crossed as the Knicks. He got really unlucky in his whole career. So, I mean, again, I can understand a Knicks fan putting him ahead of Ewing. I think that is the dividing line right now. But he's not Willis and he's not Clyde. That's not fair. Those two guys won two championships. Willis also won MVP. and let's not forget that Willis won the first championship with Clyde in Knicks history. Plus, they beat West, Baylor, and Wills, three Hall of Famers, three arguably top 10, top 15 players in the history of the NBA in the seventh game.

24:16So we've got to take it easy a little bit on that. Yeah, okay, Doug. I'm glad you hit on all that because I did want to ask you about the Brunson all-time rank talk that's been kind of taking over everyone's thoughts and then all the shows right now. So you, top five, where does the championship put him then? I would put him, I mean, let's say wins a championship, how about if I grant you a head of Ewing, doesn't win a championship, how about if I put him fourth behind Ewing? I mean, Ewing played for the Knicks for 15 years. Ewing is a top 50 player in the history of the NBA. Bunsen is not a top 50 player in the history of the NBA.

24:53So you've got to put all that into the equation. And again, Ewing had to beat Jordan. I mean, geez, Jordan beat Ewing a ton of times. And then Elijah Wan, one of the great players. Did the Atlanta Hawks have Elijah Wan on the team? I must have missed it. How about Cleveland? You think Jordan's a little better than Donovan Mitchell? Not to mention Pippen. I must have missed it. So let's put a little break on all that. But again, if they do beat Wembeama, and I still think it's going to be Oklahoma City, if they do beat SGA or if they beat the Spurs and they're not going to have home court, then I think we can have another discussion.

25:35Right now I put them, and I have trouble putting them over to Buescher, but right now I'll put them fourth to make the Knicks fan happy. Fourth. I mean, I was still going to go Knicks, but now I want to hear about why you think it's OKC. I think OKC, I think they're going to beat the Spurs. I think OKC, you know, they got to get their two players back. They got two injuries right now, Mitchell and Williams, and they both need them back. But OKC's got two centers, Holmgren and Hartenstein, who will make it difficult for Townsend Robinson. SGA will be the best player on the court. They got home field, home court.

26:11They got experience. They won a championship and they won it in game seven. And they got a better bench than the Knicks do. So because of those reasons, I would pick OKC. If I was a Knicks fan, I would root for the Spurs to get through this series. And they could. I don't think they will, but they could. I would root for the Spurs only because of youth. The Knicks played well against San Antonio in a regular year. They won two out of three. So I would root for the Spurs. But I do think Knicks, Thunder, I think you got to give an edge to the Thunder in the final. I really do. Plus, the conference is much better.

26:47Guys, guys, the Atlanta Hawks stink. Okay? The Cleveland Cavaliers stink. They're not a big-time team. All right? Jared Allen is not a big player. Moby's pretty good. Harden never wins. And Mitchell's very good. That's it. That's their team. And Atkinson wasn't exactly Red Auerbach in this year. Let's be also fair there. And the Knicks also always beat Philly. And Bede didn't play in a couple of games. And the Sixers, they're not a great team. They won 44, 45 games. So let's put a little break on the idea that the Knicks got through. You know, essentially, you know, they didn't beat the 86 Celtics to get to the final.

27:25Let's keep that in mind. Can we stay on Cleveland? Where does that analytics quote from Atkinson rank on the dumbest things you've ever heard? He's down three. I want to give the analytics quote. Come on, Kenny. Who, by the way, who I love because I love them with the Brooklyn Nets. I thought he got fired unceremoniously. slate. And then, of course, he did a terrible job in game one. You have a 22 point lead with 752 to go. It is your job as a coach to figure out how to steer that plane into landing. Okay, that's your job. You got 22 point lead, call the right timeout, get the ball out of Brunson's hands, get the ball into Mitchell.

28:04I mean, figure out how to get a basket or two or a stop or two. I don't need to hear about analytics or about fluidity or about Steve Kerr and all that nonsense. You got 752 left in the game. You got a 22-point lead. Next year, flat as a pancake, haven't played well, win the game. That's the coach's job in that spot. He didn't do that. So that on top of the game three with the data, and here's your answer. A rough series for Kenny Atkinson. Let's put it that way. Rough series. I don't know how you come back from it. I honestly don't understand it. When you say something, I mean, how do you keep your job?

28:40Well, he's going to keep his job. He's done a good, you know, he's listened. They've won, you know, they got to a conference final. Last year they won 60-something games. You know, they're not a great team. Chris, this guy's going to be a punchline for the rest of his career. They were not, well, for the data or the game won. Oftentimes you can be coach of the year and then you can make a, have a gaffe like this. And it's not the first time a coach of the year will lose his job the year after. or a title winner can lose it the next year. I agree. I mean, I wouldn't rule it out, but they did win a game seven in Detroit.

29:15They did get to a conference final last year. They lost in the second round. You know, he comes in the curve field. I think they will keep him, but he didn't do himself any favors. He had a rough series. Now, again, they were not beating the Knicks. I thought the Knicks would win in five before the series started. Vegas had the Knicks as minus 260-something, made them a huge favorite. Cleveland's not as good as the Knicks. So it's not like they were a huge team. They didn't have home court. This is not an upset. I mean, the Knicks were better than the Cavs. So you've got to remember that. That's the first definition for me.

29:52Moseley blew a 24-point lead in the third quarter in Game 6 at home against Detroit. That's fireable. That's fireable. This is a little different. So I don't think that they will get rid of him. I don't know. Dane Gilbert, who knows? I'm not swearing on his job security. I don't think I would fire him. But that was perplexing what happened here the last week for him. We haven't even mentioned the fact that Harden said he still thinks that they were the better team. Oh, what a stupid comment. If anybody wants Harden, Harden's a bum. Let's call it like we see it. If anybody wants Harden on their team in a big spot and you need your life, you need your, He treats every game, whether it's game seven or a game in Sacramento in game 36 in January.

30:38He treats every game as the same. He's so careless with the basketball. Oh, he's I mean, the fact that Jeff Van Gundy told me about seven years ago that he thought that Harden was better than Jerry West. Are you kidding me? I mean, that's insulting. That's insulting. I mean, and I love Jeff, but that was a bad one. Harden is just he's not a championship player. As simple as that. And what the Cavs do with him would be interesting is they've got a handshake agreement that they sign him for next year. But you're not winning with James Harden as your point guard. It's as simple as that. Handshake for like$43 million, though, I think.

31:09Isn't it something crazy like that? Well, he has a player option that I assume he'll opt in because it's$40-something million. $43 million. He would not be on my team. If I was coaching or an owner of a team, James Harden would not be on him. He doesn't win, doesn't play well in big spots. But, Doug, what do they do? Do they put something together for Giannis? Do they try to lure LeBron away from L.A.? What is their next step to kind of be real East contenders? I don't know. I don't think LeBron's ever going back to Cleveland. Why would you go back to Cleveland if you're LeBron when you won in Cleveland?

31:44You go back to Cleveland and lose, and you're going to take away the shine of winning there, you know, eight, nine, ten years ago. I'd be shocked if LeBron goes back to Cleveland. I wouldn't do that. I mean, I think that ship is passed. Your question is a good one. I do not know what they do. They don't have enough pieces to get Giannis. I think the team that can get Giannis is Oklahoma City. And Stephen A made that point. I think he's right. You know, they got a lot of guys. They got two picks in the draft, 12 and 17. They could trade Holmgren. You know, they got guys they could trade. They could trade guys off that bench.

32:19That is the team that I could see trading for Giannis. I don't think, you know, I don't think Cleveland's got the wherewithal to do that. And if I'm LeBron, I'm not going to Cleveland anyway. But if your question is what happens to Cleveland, I don't have the answer for you. I mean, you know, tough spot to win. I mean, I just think LeBron stays right where he is in his beautiful home here with all of this stuff. His kids are in the schools that they want to be in. His wife is happy. He's playing with his kid. I mean, so, yeah, he still runs the team. I would be shocked. LeBron likes to be the center of attention.

32:54So this is going to be, you know, what he does or what he doesn't do. He loves that. He loves that notoriety. But I think at the end of the day, he'd be with the Lakers. I'm with you 100 percent. I was reading that article the other day about how the Lakers hired a guy from. I saw that. Right. Who's got like. Oh, he's a real rocket scientist. And I'm like, oh, great. Let's get somebody with more AI in to work on a game that really should go by feel. What was your reaction to that? Yeah, stupid. I think Atkinson showed you there, too. Too many. And it just isn't in basketball. Baseball deals with this nonsense, too.

33:23So, you know, this this idea that, you know, computers, data, 24 year old kids, you know, graduated from Harvard, riding a shrimp bike to the office, you know, in a sweatshirt, just with their hair wet after washing their hair, thinking they know more about sports than scouts or media people who've been following for 50, 60 years. They charge you crazy. You know, watch with your eyes. You know, that will tell you who's a great player, who isn't a great player, what team needs, what a team doesn't need. Watch the games. You know, I don't need to have a computer or data or, you know, or any of that nonsense to tell me who's a good player and who isn't a good player.

34:03So, and I do think that, you know, this era of front office analytics in all sports has really caused major, major problems. and I think it's bad for the game. And I think there's no guarantee you're going to win. How about Larry Bird? You think Larry Bird? How did the data look for him? Too slow, can't play defense, da-da-da, de-de-de-de. How about Bird in a big spot? You want him playing for you in a big game? I do. How about you? How about Magic? Can't shoot, doesn't make threes, slow, blah, blah, blah. How'd that work out? Magic Johnson. So I don't pay attention to that nonsense. I never have.

34:37I never will. Obviously, Cleveland does because you heard that from Atkinson after game three. So Cleveland does. Yeah, do you want to come over and watch Game 5 with us? We're going to all get together and watch Game 5 because analytically it's going to be a great game. Yeah, good game tonight. You know, I think it's a seven-game series anyway. I think even if OKC won tonight, they'd win Game 6, and I wouldn't rule out OKC to win a road game in Game 6 if they had to. I think we'll be sitting there fourth quarter, 10-15, Saturday night, you know, 84-82 Thunder, and see if they get through the game.

35:10I still think they'll win this series. I'd like to see the two guys play, but I think they still will win this series. I picked them before the series started in seven. I'll stick with it. All right, then who takes it all then? I think OKC will win the whole thing. I thought originally the Knicks would win a game. Now I'm going to give them a lot more respect, and they will be a complete pain in the neck in the final. If Indiana could go to the seventh game, why can't the Knicks? and how Burton got hurt in game seven. So I would say OKC and seven in the next two rounds. Quick baseball question for you, by the way.

35:47Quick baseball question. What do you make of the celebration in the outfield by the San Francisco Giants? What happened there? I didn't see it. Did you see the three outfielders with the hip thrust dance? Did you miss that one? I did miss it. Let me do you a favor. Yeah, let me do you a favor. Go like this. Is that bad, huh? You don't like it? Did you like it? The hip thrust dance? Pretty funny. You thought so? Kind of. When you're 10 games below 500 and you're in a disaster, why don't you win a game, walk inside, shake hands with the winning pitcher and the manager, and try to win the next game?

36:24Why don't you try to do that instead of doing hip thrust when you beat the White Sox? I mean, if that's who it was against. It wasn't a victory over the Dodgers, the first one. Maybe it was the Dodgers. This is what I would say, too. It's like, call me when you have a ring on your hand. Okay? Like, don't do this against the Dodgers. Act like you've been there before. Correct? Absolutely right. 100%. The Dodgers, on the Giants, you know, they have nothing to be ashamed of. They won three championships there. You know, they're 10, 15 years ago, but they've been terrible ever since. They got a manager from the University of Tennessee.

36:56Really? You know, they've been a bad team, and they're 10 under 500 going absolutely nowhere. where when you win a game, do it quietly. Go into the manager's hall, go into your clubhouse, and try to win two in a row. That's what a team like the Giants, Mets, Red Sox, teams that are underachieved, that's what they should do. 100%. You have a good pop story for us? A what story? Good Greg Popovich story. I'm always curious to hear if people have had interactions with him. Well, I love what he did all those years with the Tia, what's his last name? Craig, who passed away with the cancer. And he went to his funeral.

37:37Yeah, with Craig Sager. Craig Sager. When he went to his funeral, too, Craig Sager died a heroic death in a lot of ways. And, you know, Popovich went to his funeral and everything else. Yeah, I like, I've always loved Pop. I'll tell you a good Pop story. You know who was, you know, Bennett Sabatore is a good friend of mine. Bennett, because he lives in Stanford, Connecticut, repped forever in the NBA. You know who his favorite coach was? the coach? Popovich. Why? He just thought he was a no-nonsense guy, an Air Force guy. Only gave him grief when he thought he had a good point to make. Loved Popovich.

38:16Loved him. So I always thought that was interesting. Because Popovich can come across as a little gruff, hates the media, not very accommodating. I remember with the 99, when the Knicks got to the final 27 years ago, you know, he was, you know, whatever he was, 48, 49 years of age. You know, Mike and myself, the old Mike and Amanda days, we went to every one of those games, including in San Antonio. And, you know, you know me, I always got to ask the questions in the postgame. And so he would never remember it. I would always figure out something to ask him. Three games at the Garden, two games at the Hemisphere in San Antonio.

38:57It was before the new arena was built. And I was always trying to ask him something to rattle him up a question after the game. But I'm a big Pop fan. You know, the five championships. Excellent, excellent coach. Now, listen, he had Robinson. Then he had, obviously, Duncan. It helps to have the players. But a great coach. And he also beat Phil Jackson when Jackson used to get on him. You know, Jackson used to pick on Popovich because that championship they won in 99 was in a short season. He only played 48 games that year. And that was his first title. And he used to kill him. Jackson used to try to tweak the Spurs on that all the time.

39:35But Popovich is a hard guy not to like. Hard guy not to like. When I was traveling with the Lakers, it was during all those series with Phil Jackson. And I'm a total gentleman to deal with. But, man, he used to get under Phil's crawl. I think almost worse than any coach did. And it was just like a Jedi mind trick with the two of them out there. Remember something else. Dave Stern never let Popovich coach the Olympic team. because Popovich didn't play all his players on TV games in Miami. Larry Brown told me that. And so on the air. So as a result, I don't believe, no, I don't follow the Olympics that carefully.

40:10Kerr, Krzyzewski, he never had a chance to coach an Olympic team because that was what Stern's doing is he was mad at Popovich for doing a load management with his Spurs team because he's really the first guy to do it from that standpoint. Chris, thank you for your time as always. You're always a gentleman with us. You got it. Keep it going. Nice to be on. Good to see you. Good to see you. When we come back, got a lot more talk about these playoff runs. This is too much fun, but God, he's the best. Gotta love a little mad dog in the morning. Love it. The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast.

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43:04I wonder what Chris Russo does for fun. What do you think he does for fun? Let's make something up.

43:09Brockman:What does he do for fun? Oh, we know because he told us once. He eats gummies and he... Gambles. Gambles. That's it, right? Yeah. I think he's a baker. I think he spends time in... Oh, you think he's like a sourdough guy? What does he do? He makes muffins every morning. Let's make this up. Like cupcakes. Let's make this up. He puts on Springsteen. Oh, for sure. For sure. Puts on Springsteen. He goes down to the local place and gets a funfetti cake. Right. Makes a muffin. Maybe he's a muffin guy. He goes for a walk. He listens to Springsteen. He gets a muffin and a coffee. He's a bacon, egg, and cheese guy.

43:45He's got to be, right? What do you think Matt Dogg's For You page on Instagram is?

43:52Brockman:does Mad Dog even have Instagram? Oh, there's no chance. There's no chance. He doesn't even know what Instagram is. There's no chance. Instagram, like, didn't exist until a few years ago. He doesn't have Facebook. He's not wasting his time online. There's no analytics. There's no analytics, right? There's none. You know, speaking of things that didn't exist in a while, I was thinking this, and I brought this up this morning, like, the last time the Knicks went to the finals was, what, 1999? 99, baby. So, try to, think of all the things, especially things we use today that did not exist. I moved to Los Angeles in September of 1999.

44:28Brockman:But think everything that didn't exist. For one thing, the Oklahoma City Thunder, who they might play in the finals, did not exist in 19. Well, they did. They were in Seattle. And then iPhones didn't exist. Facebook, Instagram, Gmail did not exist in 1999. What was the number one movie that year? Was it The Matrix? That's a good question. I don't even know. I think. The number one song, let's see. Think about the Spotify, Reddit, things that we use. Uber, of course, did not exist back then. You still had to hail a taxi. The top five songs of 1999. This is going to be awesome. Believe by Cher. No, really?

45:15No Scrubs by TLC. Angel of Mine by Monica okay Heartbreak Hotel by Whitney Houston and Faith Evans and Baby One More Time by Britney Spears Hit Me Baby One More Time? or is it really called Baby One More Time? it's dot dot dot Baby One More Time ah alright so the best we all know what that music video was the best films of 99 oh 99 was a killer movie year

45:43Brockman:Talented Mr. Ripley Fight Club American Beauty Cruel Intentions, The Matrix, The Sixth Sense. Let's see here. The Mummy, Ten Things I Hate About You. That was about Mike Del Tufo. Wow. The Green Mile. Star Wars made the most money that year? Yeah. I mean, so 99, man. A lot of things that we use that are important today did not exist the last time the New York Knickerbockers. Guys, gas was out of control in 1999. $8.99. It was$1.17. Come on. Wow. It was$8.99 when I went to the pump. $8.99. That's crazy. You could find a better pump, I think, for that$8.99. I don't know, Chris. You can come take my car and go fill it up.

46:31Let's see. Price of milk? YouTube. Did we mention YouTube? That's always fun. No YouTube. Milk was$2.80. So, yeah.

46:39Brockman:A lot of interesting things about this. I was getting getting ready to move to Los Angeles. I was going to say, so you just got here in September, right? September, yeah. When did you move to LA? 2000. 2000. Mike, you were already here, right? Yes. Mike, you got here in 96, right? 94. Oh, wow. Okay. And when did you switch the hat from New York to LA? About 12 weeks ago. No, two years ago. No, we didn't have an official hat, though, Mike. 99. Sophomore at Syracuse. Let's go. Were you really? Are you that much younger than I am? You are. Don't look it. See, that's rough. I moisturize. I mean, I'm just saying.

47:20Don't look it. They're not really going to win, are they, the Knicks? Yeah, I think they are. I'm with TJ. Van Gundy said they're the favorites. Boy, Chris loves the East. Chris loves the East. He's like, they're terrible. Well, he has a point in the sense that, like, the Knicks,

47:39Brockman:I hate to say they had to go to the finals, right? But you look at the East. Halliburton's out. Tatum, we thought this was going to be a Celtics. Celtics not full strength. You're not taking the Hawks, the Sixers seriously. So it's like the Knicks pretty much had to do it. Are you easy pathing the Knicks right now? No, definitely not. But I feel like at the beginning of the season, they had one mission and it was to get to the NBA finals. Yeah, I agree with that. Guys, we've got a big show coming up. We've got a doctor joining the show. Dr. Shaquille O 'Neal will be joining us very, very soon.

48:40The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. miss June 3rd on ABC and ESPN app