Hour 1: Guest Host Tom Pelissero, Rodgers Inks Steelers Deal & NBA Playoffs with ESPN’s Vincent Goodwill

0:00Your summer starts now with Memorial Day deals at The Home Depot. It's time to fire up summer cookouts with the Nexgrill 4-Burner Gas Grill on special buy for only$199. And entertain all season with the Hampton Bay West Grove 7-Piece Outdoor Dining Set for only$499. This Memorial Day, get low prices guaranteed at The Home Depot. While supplies last, price invalid May 14th through May 27th. U.S. only exclusions apply. See homedepot.com slash price match for details. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody. Can't get enough of the Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck. You can find us everywhere. Watch us weekdays on Disney Plus from noon to 3 Eastern.

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0:57Tom Pelissero:Now, on with the show. This is The Rich Eisen Show. What was that? The Rich Eisen Show. With guest host Tom Pelissero. Live from The Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Today's guests. Senior NBA writer for ESPN, Vincent Goodwill. NFL Network insider, Mike Garofalo. Your phone calls, latest news, and more. And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Tom Pelissero. Welcome to a Rich Eisenless edition of the Rich Eisen Show. Tom Pellicero, pleased to be with you right now from Los Angeles. Please be back in studio with my pals right here. My guys, TJ Jefferson. Chris. I assume we can get Rich the video, right?

1:51Tom Pelissero:We'll tag him in it. Tag him in it. Maybe text it to him just to make clear. We're still wasting time on his show even when he's not here. Mike Del Tufo with us as well. Hey, yo, Tommy P. A rarity. And Chris Brockman. Hey, I made it. What time did you get in, Brockman? I think my head hit pillow at 2.30 this morning. Your last text yesterday was a weather event. Weather event. It's not looking good for my connection. I woke up, realized you hadn't heard from me. Either you were dead on the floor of the airport in Jacksonville, or you were actually going to make it into studio. I realized when I woke up this morning and saw that from you, I had not given an update.

2:33Tom Pelissero:I'm like, oh, they're probably still hanging on, wondering if I'm going to be there today. I mean, not that much. Okay, great. You are a replaceable piece. Understood. But I would say, unlike the Pistons, you showed up. And I think that's really what's important. That is what's important. Also, no one is happier today, TJ, than Mary Brockman. No one loves Tom like my mom loves Tom. And the fact that she gets three hours of you today, gosh, she's got to be excited. Your mom's excited she gets three hours of me today? Technically six if you want to be. Well, did that come out wrong? Every time you say it, it gets 10 % creepier.

3:10Tom Pelissero:She's very excited. I'm surprised. I'm happy to hear it. I'm actually shocked. No, there it is right there. My mom literally just texted me, hi, Tom. Excited. Every time I host. Great to see you. Every time you host. Biggest fan. Every time. I love it. We'll talk to Vince Goodwill more. about what happened yesterday to the Pistons. What didn't happen. Game 1 tonight, Spurs-Thunder, Western Conference Finals. Love it. We'll get into all that with Vince. But you know who else showed up today? We have video and photographic proof. No way. Aaron Rodgers is in Pittsburgh. And we know because our friends at ESPN, cameraman hiding out in the bushes.

3:50Tom Pelissero:That's not Bigfoot. It's not Nessie. That's Aaron Rodgers with his wired headphones. Here he is walking through the parking lot. It's even blurry enough that I feel like we're really getting a taste of something we weren't supposed to see. He's on the practice field. Where is Aaron right now? As we speak. We know. He's in Pittsburgh. Aaron Rodgers is on the practice field. And listen. Here, coach. I have seen months worth, but particularly in the last 48 hours, the social media posts, the memes, the wisecracks, the text from Brockman. Yep. everybody talking about this is a joke oh more more mediocrity in pittsburgh i i will say this you guys know i i do this for a living an nfl insider i'm just here to tell you the objective i would never say that the cam hayward's face though tj you know i will say this i don't think this is a crazy idea i think this has the potential to set up as a very fun and potentially very relevant season in pittsburgh you see the tweet right there from me breaking that news saturday night um quick backstory on that that's from the parking lot of the restaurant where i was going out for an early uh 14th wedding anniversary dinner with my wife uh who's a total stud i said hey i think aaron rogers might be signing can you drive to the restaurant she parallel parked that thing in a spot where nobody should have been able to and then right there i pop out she's going the table's ready i'm like one second got a hit blasted that then proceeded to get seven consecutive phone calls as we're sitting there and i'm trying to order a drink till eventually the phone rang and she said if you answer one more call i am leaving which again lover wedding anniversary is tomorrow I will be here with you idiots so this was our celebration in advance and I spent a good chunk of it on Aaron Rodgers Sarah told you 14 won't become 15 she looked me dead in the eye it was like the first couple she was living with about the seventh call she just looked at me and she goes just so you know if you answer another one I am leaving and right then I got a phone call from a head coach and she goes that's fine you can call him later and i texted i'm at dinner with my wife i gotta call you later fair is fair i think i hit the limit six and a half was the over call number seven was where we went we went too far it's a one-year deal okay 22 million dollars guaranteed he can earn up to 25 million dollars with incentives this is never about money said that repeatedly it wasn't about the contract all the speculation of is he trying to get more money no this guy's made almost 400 million dollars in his career it was never about money it was about Aaron going through the process and deciding did he actually want to do this yeah does he feel at 42 years old he turns 43 in December that he had enough left to give that he could come back give himself and the Steelers a chance to not just win but win big and to make this about something bigger than just Aaron Rodgers coming out and play one more season.

7:00Tom Pelissero:This was not a conspiracy theory. There wasn't a handshake agreement months ago. If there was, we would not have needed the UFA tender to be applied to Rodgers a couple of weeks ago, protecting for the possibility that they might need to get a compensatory pick if he signed somewhere else. The guy was a free agent. You don't do that if, hey, we already got this locked in. They did not 100%. No, they thought because of all the conversations, because if he was going to play anywhere, it was going to be in Pittsburgh. They thought he was coming back, but they didn't know until they finally get the call on Saturday.

7:36Tom Pelissero:But the reason I kept saying May 18th on this show and elsewhere over and over again was that's when Mike McCarthy really wanted Aaron Rodgers in. That's what Aaron Rodgers wanted to be in. If he was going to do this, yeah, phase one, phase two, that's great for Will Howard, Drew Aller now, Mason Rudolph. But you want Aaron out there, if he's going to do it, for the actual on-field practice portions of the spring. Because he knows this offense better than anybody. From 13 years with Mike McCarthy, from all their history together. But his teammates don't. And if you're trying to get a jump start on the rhythm and timing and tempo and building the things that makes an NFL offense go, you need that time on task.

8:18Tom Pelissero:So he shows up. He's on the field for the first OTA today. I can't help but think that this is a little bit like 2007 in Green Bay. Brett Favre at that point was 37 years old. He had spent his off seasons for years in Mississippi. They were like six years into the willy or won't he play dance. Brett never. Brett probably didn't know what OTA stood for. And I'm not even joking. For a guy who was admitted he didn't know what a nickel defense was until several years in his career. or he probably had no clue. But Mike McCarthy, who was in his second year as the head coach, talked Brett into, hey, if we're going to make this thing go, if you want to get the most out of yourself, I got to get you here.

9:03Tom Pelissero:And I believe Brett showed up for like nine of 12 OTAs that spring. He put the time on task. That year, with the youngest roster in the NFL, but a 37-year-old quarterback, who had frankly showed signs of decline for several years, came out, was the MVP runner-up, went to the NFC Championship game and is his 37-year-old body freezing up and throwing a bad interception to Corey Webster in overtime away from us having a Packers-Patriots Super Bowl instead of Eli Tom Brady Part 1. That's how close they came. I think I would have liked that better, TJ. Because Mike McCarthy knows how to build a culture.

9:42Tom Pelissero:He knows how to build an offense. and this isn't Mike McCarthy just going blindly into, I'm just going to trust that Aaron Rodgers now is what he was in 2018, the last time they worked together. I guarantee you Mike dug into all the tape, knows exactly what Aaron is. He's not the same. His legs are not the same, the way he moves, his ability to get inside and outside the pocket, extend plays like he has his entire career. That's not the way it was before. Aaron's got to play a different mental game now. because he can't extend plays. Because the last time we really saw him truly try to extend plays the way that he used to, he lasted four snaps in 2023 with the Jets and went down when he got hit twice in the pocket and tore his Achilles, and that was it.

10:28Tom Pelissero:Aaron hasn't had a great season since 2021, which was the same year that Aaron went to war with the Packers in the offseason and said he might retire, said he wanted to play elsewhere. They went back and forth for like four and a half months before Aaron finally showed up in July and held what is still one of the most memorable press conferences that I have ever been at. Aaron at that point was 37, the same age that Brett Favre was the first time that he retired. I was at that press conference in Lambeau Field in March of 2008. I was at Aaron's press conference in July of 2021. And something that Aaron said amidst a lot of other stuff that day was that he felt there had not been in the Packers organization enough credence given to the idea that players later in their career, maybe they're not what they were.

11:20Tom Pelissero:They're not worth the money they're doing their contracts, but that there's something to be said for a player in his last run, knowing he might have one last shot at it. the motivation that comes from that, the way that teammates feed off of that, the leadership you get from players in that position. He cited guys like Jordy Nelson and Charles Woodson, players who wanted to come back, and the Packers either didn't make him an offer or just it wasn't the type of offer that they were going to be willing to take. And Aaron wanted to make very clear there is something to the mindset, the motivation of high-level pro athletes who may be past their prime, may not be what they were, but coming out and feeling like in that environment, in the right situation, they can wring that last bit out of their bodies.

12:09Tom Pelissero:Aaron has put that to the test. Back in 2021, he also basically pushed the Packers to trade a fifth-round pick for Randall Cobb. Probably wasn't worth it. Bringing in various guys to the Jets. Pushing for Adam Thielen to come in last year with the Steelers. Steel and had a little something left again you got the best version of him down the stretch of that season it doesn't always work but Aaron is now that guy at 42 going on 43 years old and if you think about the evolution of Aaron Rodgers I've covered him since 07 when he was the backup to Brett that year when they made the MC championship game run which also by the way Brett the most durable quarterback in NFL history got knocked out of a game in Dallas in November Aaron went in, lit it up.

12:54Tom Pelissero:They lost the game, but he played so well that it gave the organization pause. And when Brett once again was waffling after the season on play, and they went, if we got that guy, we need to play Aaron sooner than later. Yeah, Rich tells that story all the time. I think that was an NFL Network game. It was an NFL Network game on a Thursday night in Dallas. The big controversy in Green Bay at that time was whether you'd be able to get the game. Ultimately, you could. Right. But NFL Network was in its infancy at that point. but if you go back to 2007 and what they were able to get out of bread at the end that that's Aaron now I've seen him evolve I'm not close with Aaron I've talked to him too a number of times over the years over 20 years of him he's now entering year 22 in the league my first year at the Green Bay Press because that was in 2007 he evolved from this confident borderline cocky young backup to a guy who became the face of face of the NFL for a long time and the highest paid player in the NFL.

13:53Tom Pelissero:He came back in that 2021 season after everything that happened and won his second straight MVP fourth overall in Green Bay. He has not been the same guy the past four years. 2022 is a brutal season in Green Bay. Gets himself traded to the Jets, tears his Achilles. 24 coming off the Achilles and it took a long time. He played some of the worst football we've seen the Aaron Rodgers last year with the Steelers was not a bad player you you can dig into all the advanced statistics and where he ranked he was 14th in passer rating last year around the middle of the pack there's other metrics where he ranked lower but that was in an environment where a he played a bulk of the season with a shattered wrist where he was having to compensate for that and basically couldn't get hit b he was playing in an offense where do you remember how many times we We saw him screaming at the sideline, whether it was directed at Arthur Smith or whatever about the plays not getting in, what they were calling in big situations, the times that they're running run plays into bad numbers on a side.

14:53Tom Pelissero:And you'd see Aaron, who's always had a bit of a body language issue when he's not happy, but he was pissed. I don't ever remember seeing Aaron that mad that often as we did last year. Aaron has evolved through the course of his life where now we all know we've seen him come into this. He's in touch with everything around him, his place in the world, his emotions, where he is mentally and physically. You don't have to have consumed the entire Rogers documentary and seeing him on various herbal substances playing the bongos with a mustache to know. He has a very great feeling about how the world works together.

15:29Tom Pelissero:If you're looking for a sign from the universe and you're Aaron Rodgers and the disappointment of last year, where again, they were 10 and six with him as the starter. He was not a bad player last year, but Mike Tomlin steps down and you're Aaron Rodgers going. That's probably it. I don't know how hard he was thinking about his future in January, but you're realistically going. That was the only guy I was going to come back for. The only guy on the planet he would have played for again is Mike McCarthy. they had their ups and downs they had their disagreements you get that over 13 years together i've been married now 14 years tomorrow disagreements come up on things like how many phone calls to take about aaron rogers at dinner but they had a connection they had a very close connection for a long period of time and i know this aaron and mike have talked a ton what were the odds that of all people that were going to get that job it's mike mccarthy what are the chances Aaron Rodgers is going to have one last chance for this beautiful final chapter and that they can close it together I'm not sitting here and saying Aaron Rodgers is going to go out and be the MVP runner-up that he's going to go to the AFC championship game but if you look at this roster they brought back a lot of veteran players they continue to add pieces around him whether it was trading for Michael Pittman drafting Jeremy Bernard drafting two offensive linemen including Jennings Dunker, who looks more like a Steelers offensive lineman than any Steelers offensive lineman in history.

16:55Tom Pelissero:They bring in a defensive coordinator, and Patrick Graham is going to do things a lot different, but has a bunch of key pieces to work with. Bring him back, Cam Hayward. Having T.J. Watt. Having a top corner like Joey Porter Jr. Bring him back, Jalen Ramsey. You don't do that if you don't think you've got an opportunity. Everyone can keep saying, oh, more mediocrity. That's all I've heard. That's all I've seen in social media comments. for four months since they hired Mike McCarthy. And you saw it again with Aaron Rodgers. Mediocrity is a Steelers team that hasn't been top 20 in offense since 2018.

17:30Tom Pelissero:Seven years in a row, they're in the bottom third of the league. They haven't, for a franchise built on defense, they haven't had a top 10 defense since 2020. They have been the definition of mediocre. All Mike McCarthy does every year is have a top five offense. leave 13 out of his 18 seasons top five offense they're going to score points aaron rogers can be set up to succeed better than he has been at any point in the past five years there are pieces to work with we can look at the ravens we can look at the bangles who knows about the browns we can say they got talented quarterbacks mvp caliber quarterbacks they've got a lot of talent i would just say this don't write this off as oh this is a stealer striving for nine and eight one more time.

18:16Tom Pelissero:This may well be it for Aaron Rodgers. But in a year where the Steelers weren't going to be in position to take a first-round quarterback, and this was not the draft to take one anyway, you could do a lot worse than having a four-time NFL MVP who's coming back with a coach that he knows better than anyone, a system he knows better than any other, and coming in with this beautiful mindset that maybe, just maybe, there is some magic left. And he's going to try to restore it in Pittsburgh. Phone lines open throughout the course of the show. 844-204-RICH. Vincent Goodwill, ESPN senior NBA writer, joins us right after this.

18:57Tom Pelissero:What in the world happened to the Pistons? What happens in Spurs Thunder tonight? Vince with us next.

19:05The Rich Eisen Show podcast.

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20:55Tom Pelissero:Welcome back to our radio audience on ESPN Radio. Thanks to everybody watching, listening, Disney Plus and the ESPN app. Tom Pellicero in for Rich Eisen. Pleased to be joined right now by Vincent Goodwill, ESPN senior NBA writer. Tons to get into with you, Vincent. But let's start with this. Clipping your nails in public, in or out?

21:17That's two Americas, Tom. That's what I'll just say. Two Americas. First of all, this is not public. This is like our work.

21:24Tom Pelissero:I'm not like doing it at the bus stop or on the train. But you're doing it in front of your coworkers in a work environment, and I have to listen to it. It's as if you just cooked it over me. I thought we were friends. All right. Vince, what happened to the Pistons? What the hell was that? Tom, I think you saw a team that ran out of gas last night. When you think about them being down 3-1 to the Orlando Magic in every game being an elimination game and playing every other day from that point on, the attrition of the playoffs came back to haunt them. In addition to the fact that simply they did not show up and all of their flaws came to bear.

22:02Like I always say this about them. Their superpower is making sure that you cannot play your best game as an opponent. And they lost their superpower last night. And that's why you were able to see the Cleveland Cavaliers play their best game almost from jump where they were just slower to the ball. They couldn't stop James Harden and Donovan Mitchell from getting to the lane. They couldn't stop the shooters from getting open shots. It was like Cinderella's slipper fell off. But now I think it enables the franchise to walk into this offseason with a very clear and sober approach and not be seduced by what could have been a close game seven loss or something else that says, you know what, maybe we can bring the band back together.

22:39Now they really have to look at this roster around Cade Cunningham and probably Asar Thompson as a second untouchable and figure out what pieces can we mix and match to make sure that we can elevate ourselves, not to beyond the 60-win range, but to be better prepared for playoff basketball this time next season.

22:56Tom Pelissero:You look at the Cavs in that first quarter, especially last night. I mean, they're making shots, including the one at the buzzer. They just felt like, okay, this is just going to be a snowball rolling down the hill. How good are they in a seven-game series now in the Eastern Conference Finals? In your mind, what kind of chances do the Cavs have? You better be good in games one through five, because I'm not sure what you're getting out of James Harden in games six and seven. He has told us that that is a mystery bag that does not always yield positive results. But when you look at Donovan Mitchell and James Harden and then also the Twin Towers or Tall and that's all, you know, Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, that's all star level talent at four of the five positions.

23:36In addition, Tom, this is the highest payroll in the NBA. They're the most expensive team in the league. We just think of the Cavs as being a small market and they don't have much of an identity beyond LeBron James. but there's expectations to be here. And when you have two explosive players like Harden and Mitchell, it's going to be a much different series, I think, for the New York Knicks, at least to start, because you have two players that have to occupy Jalen Brunson. You have Evan Mobley, who's a pretty dynamic big that they have not had to play in the first two series. This is going to be a styles makes fights situation where neither team is truly prepared for what they're going to see based off of what they've had to deal with in the first two rounds.

24:17Tom Pelissero:Game one tonight, Spurs-Thunder, Western Conference Finals. You've obviously got maybe the best player on the planet right now in Wemby going up against the guy who's just voted the best player in the NBA and SGA. Handicap this series for me, and what's the pathway for each of these teams to be able to pull this out? Well, Tom, I think we all understand that when we made our MVP votes maybe five or six weeks ago at the end of the regular season, like for one, man, the playoffs are long. when you think about all of that you think about Shea Gilders Alexander you think about his consistency the 30 point streak the 20 point streak shooting over 50 percent from the field and 40 from three and everything else that he does and then you look at the other side of Victor Wimbaniama and he's just this irresistible force and you're wondering do the Spurs have to go through some playoff pain like NBA history has told us for 40 damn years that you cannot go from being a non-playoff team to winning the championship without having some atrophy, without having some scar tissue.

25:19But I think it's going to come down to not necessarily Victor Wimbanyama and Chet Holmgren as in the Battle of the Skinnies. As someone who used to be skinny himself, I appreciate them fighting over a very slim block at the corner of Oklahoma City and San Antonio. But I think it's going to come down to who guards Shea Gilgis-Alexander. Stefan Castle, who a lot of people know from UConn and playing under Dan Hurley. He's going to draw the assignment, but there are so many guards that San Antonio has that they can throw at the MVP. Can you wear him down? Can you keep Lou Dort from hurting Victor Wiminiyama?

25:54Oh, my bad. Is that your kidney that I just hit with my elbow? Like, it's so many different things. I'm so fascinated by the series, and I'm very curious if Oklahoma City feels the desperation because they want to repeat.

26:05Tom Pelissero:My biggest concern with putting Stephon Castle on SGA would be he emerged as such an offensive force, especially in that Timberwolves series. We all know SGA is the master of drawing fouls and Castle. I mean, fouled out of the first two games against the Timberwolves there, too. In my mind, I'm just going, how much can we put him on him knowing that this might put him in perpetual trouble and hamper us from using one of our best offensive weapons as well? Tom should you be an NBA insider too like seriously are you trying to take our jobs like what are we doing here uh but no I think that is a I think that's a great observation I think when you look at the Spurs they have so many other guards who are defensively inclined like you can also I mean De 'Aaron Fox is not the greatest defender but he can occupy time Dylan Harper was the second pick in the draft he's athletic and big and strong like you can throw so many different players, Devin Bissell, like if you use this as defending by committee and maybe just maybe if your guy only has four fouls at the six minute mark of the fourth quarter and it's a close game, then maybe you can start slide Stefan Castle back onto him and have him play.

27:10I'll use an analogy for the NFL, have him play shut down corner for the last six minutes of the game and see what happens there if he stays out of foul trouble for the first 40 minutes or so.