Hour 1: Jets Tag Breece Hall, Kenneth Walker III Not Tagged, plus PFF’s Trevor Sikkema Talks NFL Mock Draft

24:02Trevor Sikkema:I think the scheme change kind of goes into this a little bit, right? Leaning a little bit more towards an odd front defense, which makes a lot of sense, right? Because even the first year of Aaron Glenn, they're running a lot more even front defensive stuff. Robert Sala, he did that a lot when he was the head coach there because that's a lot of what his defense is predicated around, getting home with four, having four down linemen. And to be honest with you, Quinnen Williams was their guy. They had Quinnen Williams, and Quinnen Williams is a phenomenal three-technique defensive tackle. When you have a great three-tech, a lot of times you're running and even front defense.

24:33Trevor Sikkema:Well, now they trade him away in the middle of the year last year, and now you're changing things around. I think the last couple of months has given them the opportunity to say, all right, blank canvas, what do we want this front to be? I think it sounds like they're leaning a lot more towards those odd front defenses. And you get to do that when you have a nose tackle that you really like. They trade Jermaine Johnson for Tavondre Sweat. That leans into that a lot. So with Sweat now as sort of that interior defensive line centerpiece, to me, it's like, all right, what exactly is Will McDonald going to be?

25:04Trevor Sikkema:Because remember, Will McDonald played a lot of four-eyed defensive end in an odd front defense when he was at Iowa State. So he's played a lot of that in his college days. He plays a little bit more as a traditional outside linebacker pass rusher for you with the Jets. But do you want another player like that? Are you trying to get faster? And for me, Reese sort of is what they want to do. It just feels as though that is where they are going. I want to be clear. I'd be taking Reuben Bain here. I like Reuben Bain more than I like Arvel Reese, especially with Reese sort of declaring himself as an edge rusher.

25:35Trevor Sikkema:However, the scheme that the Jets play feels like it lends itself a little bit more to who Arbel Reese is as an athlete and a football player.

25:44Rich Eisen:All right. So you are not concerned about Ruben Bain's arm length, Trevor. I'm not at all.

25:50Trevor Sikkema:I'm really not. And the reason why is because he doesn't win with length. You know, I think when you have the length conversation when it comes to pass rushers, defensive linemen specifically, it's worth having, right? Because as a prerequisite on a general playing field, bigger athletes are going to win more often. And so with that being the case, you always want guys who are a little bit bigger, a little bit stronger, have that length to them, especially when it comes to the trenches. But it's not like Ruben Bayans out here winning a ton with a long arm move or executing length as the main way that he wins as a pass rusher.

26:24Trevor Sikkema:That's not the case. That's not how he's winning. So I don't have to sit here and say, well, the shorter arms aren't really going to translate for how he won in college to how he won at the NFL level. He won in college football with leverage, leg strength, excellent hand usage, violent and fast hands at that, a great pass rush arsenal, really great counters. I mean, he was coached by the Hall of Famer Jason Taylor for three years down there at Miami. He knows what he's doing. You watch Reuben Bain, there's no fat to trim on his pass rush reps. I mean, it is as efficient as it gets. And in fact, I would tell you that the way that Reuben Bain often gets off of offensive tackles who maybe do wrangle him up a little bit, get an arm, you know, maybe on the shoulder pad or on the inside, maybe have some control over him.

27:08Trevor Sikkema:The way that he discards those blocks is he uses leverage and leg strength to do that. You know, that little hump move that Reggie White used to do all the time that he was very famous for, that's a lot of what Reuben Bain does when he's trying to get off the blocks. And I would tell you guys that it's even better to have shorter arms when that is how you disengage blocks. So I'm not worried about Reuben Bain at all whatsoever. I think he's a hell of a football player and that's going to continue in the NFL.

27:32Rich Eisen:Trevor Sikkim, a pro football-focused NFL analyst. You have Carnell Tate, fifth to the Giants. Why do you have John Harbaugh's first pick as the Giants' HC being this stellar wide receiver? By the way, that's three Ohio State players in the top five.

27:48Trevor Sikkema:Yeah, I know you don't like seeing that. So I'm sorry about that there. But look, when it comes to Carnell Tate, I still think that he would be a worthy selection as a top 10 overall pick and potentially the number one wide receiver in this class. And I think especially when you talk about the New York Giants as a landing spot, Malik Nabors, everything that he could do, not just underneath, but also vertically and pairing that with what Jackson Dart loves to do well, what he did so well when he was at Ole Miss and Lane Kiffin system, what we saw him do really well last year as well, be somebody who can complement the run game.

28:21Trevor Sikkema:But then as the defense starts to creep up, right, because the more you run those option and RPO sets, the more that you're really, you're really moving the ball on the ground, okay, well, defense has got to creep up a little bit, okay? You got to get more guys in the box, and when you do that, it's when you hit them over the top, and when you have two guys, like Carnell Tate and Malik Nabors, to be able to throw the ball too vertically, you feel pretty good about it. Now, Sonny Stiles wasn't on the board in this situation. Francis Maui Noah off the board in this situation. I think free agency is really going to give us a much clearer picture of what the Giants might do at No.

28:53Trevor Sikkema:5, because they've potentially got corner needs, potentially have offensive line needs. We'll see how they view this team in this overall roster. But Carnell Tate in this offense specifically, and what he did as a vertical wide receiver this past year, showcased the type of ability that you would love to pair with Malik neighbors and put in that offense with Jackson Dart as their quarterback.

29:13Rich Eisen:Let's talk, Trevor Sickamy here on the program. Let's talk Jeremiah Love. You have him landing eight to the Saints, which means he's so close to that Chiefs pick that a lot of people were sharpening him into prior to the combine. I don't know. I kind of feel like the Browns sitting there at six, even the Giants at five, someone might get itchy for love and trade up to go grab him. And the Giants could still potentially get the players that you have in your mock draft and Tate and Monroe Freeling for the Giants and Browns, respectively. What do you think about this? I know you don't usually do trades for a mock draft.

29:50Rich Eisen:I'll give you the floor on love.

29:53Trevor Sikkema:Sure. Yeah. I think that Love's range, now I wouldn't be doing this, but this is sort of what I've heard at the Combine and after Combine. Sounds like Love's range starts even at three overall to the Arizona Cardinals. I heard some people talking about him going as high as number three. Now, I wouldn't be doing that because Arizona's got to fix their offensive line before they invest a lot in a top flight running back. I know we all love to talk about the skill position players, but in my opinion, I think the Arizona Cardinals have multiple holes on their offensive line that they've got to fill and they've got to upgrade before they feel like they have the freedom to draft a running back very high.

30:26Trevor Sikkema:But that is what I've heard, so I feel like it's my responsibility to at least talk about that scenario there. But getting into a little bit more of a realistic scenario, what you talked about there, Giants at five, Browns at six. I think these are two teams that would be pretty happy with a variety of different options of the guys that are sort of in that next clump of players right outside of the top five. I agree with you. I think that they could absolutely be teams that they could trade down with, that they feel good about. I mean, the Chiefs popping up. Maybe the Chiefs feel like, oh, boy, we've got to jump the Saints.

30:57Trevor Sikkema:I'm not going to lie. Maybe the Saints feel like, oh, we've got to jump the Commanders for Jeremiah Love. I feel like I've heard that connection as well with him potentially being somebody to infuse a ton of talent into that backfield. Jeremiah Love, while he was at the combine, was even talking about the idea of him and Jaden Daniels being a backfield pairing in Washington. And that's a lot of athletic ability. And that's really tough to cover for any defense. So there's no doubt about it. I think Jeremiah Love is locked himself into a top 10 overall selection. It feels like it might be destiny, though, for him to go number eight.

31:28Trevor Sikkema:I mean, Christian McCaffrey went number eight. B. John Robinson goes number eight. So maybe that's just the spot that good running backs go.

31:35Rich Eisen:You know, that could be stellar running backs, to say the least. All right. Then looking at the middle round, interestingly enough, the Jets choose Arvel Reese. not David Bailey. And then you have the Dolphins winding up with David Bailey for the first pick there for the Jeff Halfley era. And then you have the Cowboys in their double dip at 12 and 20 going secondary. Dylan Thienemann, he looked terrific at the combine. And A.J. Terrell's brother, his combine was terrific. TJ, I know you're making a face right there. You don't like that idea? Well, no, I got new glasses, so it wasn't a face. I was squinting to see the monitor.

32:14Rich Eisen:I just kind of feel like, you know, switching to the three, four, I was hoping we get some some linemen up in there. But anything we do on defense, Trevor, is going to be better than what we had last year. So, yeah.

32:25Trevor Sikkema:And I think the reason why I ended up gravitating towards that is I felt like I liked those outside linebacker pass rushers. Maybe the idea of them, I guess it's sort of like day three, because the Cowboys, they have they have the two fixed picks in the first round. They don't pick in the second round. They don't pick in the third round. But I wonder if they would feel like they have the opportunity to move up a little bit later in the draft, maybe pop back into the day two range. I also typically go with a defensive lineman at some point for the Dallas Cowboys, either at 12 or 20, because it's kind of hard to expect them to get a difference making player if they don't take them in the first round with one of those two picks.

33:02Trevor Sikkema:I wonder if they're a trade down candidate at 12 or 20 because of those two things. But the secondary has got to get a lot better for Dallas. And I think this scenario really was, to me, just one that it was best player available at that point. I mean, we've got David Bailey's off the board, Akeem Messdor's off the board, Cassius Howell's off the board, right? If those guys are available, I consider them at No. 20. But Avion Terrell, he's too good of a football player. I think he's an absolute dog. He can play inside and out for you. You get that flexibility with Deron Bland. And then going up to No.

33:31Trevor Sikkema:12 with Dylan Thienemann. Guys, I feel like Dylan Thienemann deserves to be talked about as a top 12 overall pick. Not just some guy who, oh yeah, no, he had a really good combine. Let's think about him at the back end of the first round. This dude's a legit football player. In the first two years that he played at Purdue, especially that true freshman season, elite coverage grade as a single high, cover one, you've got to do it all on the back end type of a safety. Second year, they were playing him at a little bit different of a role, so he wasn't as impactful. But you go back to Oregon this past season, and you see the athleticism in a little bit of a different way, more of a downhill way.

34:05Trevor Sikkema:When people test really well in the secondary, specifically at safety, a lot of times you focus on coverage, right? The range in coverage, what they could be in coverage. You got to emphasize the range that Dylan Thienemann has in run defense. The way that this guy can get from a deep safety spot to filling the run at the line of scrimmage is so fast, so explosive, so precise, so efficient that there are just not many guys that can run full speed and yet be a sound tackler, still line you up in between the shoulders and bring you down. When we talk about Dylan Thienemann, it is not just a coverage thing with his athleticism.

34:41Trevor Sikkema:It is an overall play style. It's why he had a ton of tackles over the last couple of years, specifically this past year at Oregon. I think that he is well worth that 12th overall pick for Dallas.

34:51Rich Eisen:Could be your Cooper DeGene, Quinion Mitchell draft just in a reverse order. Yeah, you never know. You sold me, Trevor. You sold me. The last third, some interesting names. Trevor Sikama. You have the Steelers going for Ty Simpson, 21st overall. Why is that?

35:06Trevor Sikkema:Yeah, so I want to be very clear. I like Ty a lot. Halfway through the college football season, I had him as my QB1 in this class, even above Fernando Mendoza. Now Mendoza, obviously, the consistency, the highs in winning the national championship. That vaults him up to that number one overall selection and how he played. But Simpson, through the first nine games, you've got to remember, these are the first nine games that he started. He's a first-year starter. The way that he was able to command the pocket, how he would make protection calls at the line of scrimmage, how I'd watch him go through the progressions of a three-layered read, a sale concept to his right.

35:40Trevor Sikkema:Okay, all three of those guys are covered. The defense sold out for that concept. That means the backside dig over the middle of the field is open. Let me get to that. The amount of times that he was able to do that was so impressive for a year one starter. Second half of the season, yeah, struggled under pressure a little bit, and he played hurt. So I think that that goes into it as well. But when I watch the best of Ty Simpson, and I don't even mean that just a cherry pick. I mean showing what a guy can do, which is what scouting is all about. I see a starting caliber NFL quarterback. I really do.

36:11Trevor Sikkema:And so I don't know if the Steelers are going to consider him there at number 21. But I kind of had him go at that point because I think he's going to be a mid to first round pick. I think that at the very least, a team at the top of the second round is going to look to jump up like the Giants did with Jackson Dart to get that fifth-year option for him because he just feels like a player. Rich, I know you know this because you were in the booth watching all the throws from Simpson. Simpson was impressive to me at the combine. It's a little piece of the pie, sure, but for a guy to get dropped in an unfamiliar environment, throwing to wide receivers he's never thrown to before, and to be as accurate and as clean as he was, specifically with a handful of those deep throws, that's really impressive to me, And that showcases a guy who can not only learn on the fly, but has a lot of natural athletic ability when it comes to the accuracy portion of playing the position.

37:03Rich Eisen:And then at 22 overall, brother, if Vengo Ioane is available for Jim Harbaugh to put next to Rashawn Slater on the line of a returning Joe Alt for Mike McDaniel to bring his run scheme there, He might run the card in from across the street all the way to Pittsburgh. Do you think that's possible?

37:27Trevor Sikkema:I certainly think it's possible. Now, Vega could go a little bit higher than this, yeah, but I think that they'll have options. I mean, to be honest with you, with the Chargers at 22, I look at four players in particular. One of them is Vega Owane. The other one is Spencer Fano, who I think could be a fantastic guard at the NFL level. I know there's questions for tackle, but, man, I think he'd be a fantastic guard, especially, you talk about a Mike McDaniel offense, where he's likely to get to the sideline and he likes to get his offensive lineman on the hoof. I mean, he's fantastic in that regard.

37:55Trevor Sikkema:Emmanuel Pregnon from USC still, I think is one of the top zone-blocking offensive guards in this class. And then Caleb Banks is kind of the wild card. I think they'd take Caleb Banks if he gets to 22, but I don't think he gets to 22. All that to say, getting back to Vega Juana. Not just a people mover, not just somebody who can really help out Mike McDaniel's run game there in Los Angeles. I think he's one of the best pass protectors of any offensive lineman in this draft. Love his handwork, love his balance. I mean, there are so many times where I watched him this past year where, okay, the hands go up, he tries to get the first punch on somebody, and the defensive lineman, you know, he'll break the wrist, he'll break the forearms, whatever it is.

38:33Trevor Sikkema:And then just the way that Vega stays patient, stays balanced, resets those hands inside. I mean, it just gave so many pass rushers fits. I could tell he was getting on defensive linemen's last damn nerve with how quick his hands were to reset and how he was able to be so consistent as a pass blocker as much as a good run blocker as well. So I think that we saw what happened to Justin Herbert this past season. The interior offensive line was not good enough with the Chargers, and this guy would immediately give them some good juice in that area.

39:08Rich Eisen:doubt i mean daniel jeremiah trevor was showing footage of him getting to the second level searching for someone to hit and i was frightened sitting in the booth he was he was he's pretty amazing if the charges wind up with him and brockman look how close trevor thinks you're going to get to sadiq or stowers man at the patriot spot there i saw that yes that's close i mean that's close enough for you to pop up but sadiq to the niners why is that because you think obviously there you got um uh kittle with an achilles pop and and you add him and obviously kittle and sadique when they when they're both healthy look out like is that what you think

39:48Trevor Sikkema:yeah i mean that's that's that's the that's the first phase right i mean like to think of both of these guys on the field i mean george kittle is hard enough to stop right and then if you put kenyan sadique as the tight end too who's next to him have him as a wing back an h-back whatever you want to call it off the line of scrimmage is a true move player he can be the split zone blocker for you coming behind the line of scrimmage if you want to run a lot more of those concepts you feel good about those mid and outside zone concepts again because you got these tight ends that can really block for you out in space Sadiq hasn't looked like the most natural receiver over the last couple of seasons with Oregon but you see that athleticism and man who better to learn from than one of the best to play the position over the last two decades in George Kittle and so So with Kittle getting up there in age, I think that you set up a really, really great pairing where not only does he get to work with Kittle for a little bit, but of course take over for Kittle whenever he decides to retire, which who knows?

40:43Trevor Sikkema:I mean, Kittle is a maniac in the best way, so maybe that's 10 years from now. But you also, as a plus, have to look at the receiving situation for the Niners. I know some people are gravitating towards them taking a receiver at the back end of the first round because Jawan Jennings is a free agent. Kendrick Bourne is a free agent. Brandon Ayuk is out of there. obviously they've already traded Debo Samuel so he's not in he's he's been long not part of their long-term plans and you kind of look at it you go all right slick Rick it's Ricky Pearsall and you know Demarcus Robinson that's about it so you could lean so much more into the tight end passing game when you have those two tight end concepts and that 12 and 13 personnel that you really love to go to.

41:25Trevor Sikkema:I just, a offensive mind like Kyle Shanahan, having George Kittle and Kenyon Sadiq to work with, I mean, he's already one of the best coaches in the NFL and so hard to cover, but you put that pairing out there, it gets even more difficult.

41:38Rich Eisen:Great chat, brother. Look for more of my calls. Let's do this more often. Appreciate it.

41:42Trevor Sikkema:I appreciate it, Rich. Anytime, my friend.

41:44Rich Eisen:Everybody check out all of Trevor Sikkim's work. Pro Football Focus right here on the Rich Eisen Show. We're back in a second. We got to beat it. That's how long we were chatting. Good stuff. The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast.

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43:42Rich Eisen:Back here as one big happy simulcast family on ESPN Radio, Disney Plus, the ESPN app. All reports coming out that there will be no tag forthcoming for the Super Bowl MVP running back of the Seattle Seahawks. Kenneth Walker III, who was the clear MVP of that Super Bowl, unless he wanted to give it to the kicker, Jason Myers. Or the punter. Or the punter, right? Michael Dixon. But as we all know, those things will never happen in our lifetimes, even though they are Super Bowl MVP worthy people. So Zach Charbonnet coming off of a knee injury and Kenneth Walker, the third being told 14 million bucks for one year is too rich for our blood.

44:28Looks like John Schneider is going to go shopping at the running back store, either in this year's draft or in free agency. and or getting Kenneth Walker to come back

44:42Rich Eisen:in a more friendly contract, if he's so willing, wants to do. Interesting choices to be made right here. But if there's one guy in this league out of the handful that you're like, he knows what he's doing. I don't think there's any Seattle Seahawks fans going, what is John Schneider thinking? Does he have a plan? Does he not know what he's doing? Does he have anybody in mind? Maybe they see somebody on their roster. But it is just a rough and tumble world for running backs, man. I'm looking at the franchise tags for players. The highest ranked player on the board is quarterbacks at 43 million per.

45:31Rich Eisen:43. Next up, you want to guess who it is? again, it's the top five positional salaries or 120 % of a previous salary of somebody individually but these are the top five, average of the top five paid at the position left tackle the incorrect it is wide receiver at 27.2 million defensive tackle is 27.1 million linebacker is 26.8 defensive end is 24.4 but offensive lineman is 25.7 after that it's cornerback at 21.1 million after that it's safety at 20.1 million after that it's tight end at 15 million and then you get to running backs at 14.2 again when it all comes down to it the Super Bowl MVP was the running back not the quarterback who was properly lionized and not the offensive player of the year not even a previous Super Bowl MVP in Cooper Cup come on now James Cook B.

46:51Rich Eisen:John Robinson Christian McCaffrey Saquon Barkley Jonathan and Taylor, Josh Jacobs. These are all people you need and depend on to run out of clock or give you a crucial score. You could say the biggest play of the Seahawks season, period, was when Zach Charbonnet picked up a two-point conversion, not thinking. Oh, but that's anyone. All right. Anyone could have done that. After the running back spot, the only other position lower is kicker punter of 6.6 million. That sounds kind of crazy. It does sound kind of crazy, doesn't it? So, good luck to these running backs and good luck to Kenneth Walker III in finding the deal that he deserves and feel he deserves.

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