Hour 1: NBA Finals Game 4 Pressure Debate, plus ESPN Sr. NBA Writer Vincent Goodwill

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1:00Rich Eisen:This is The Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody. Can't get enough of The Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck. You can find us everywhere. Watch us weekdays on Disney Plus from noon to 3 Eastern. Miss the show? We've got a podcast so you can listen anytime. But here's the best part. Our YouTube channel. Subscribe at youtube.com slash richeisenshow and you'll never miss a moment. Now, on with the show. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Rich Eisen Show. I was living with the officiating. Here we go again. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. All the shots we took, we got fouled four times. Four times.

1:44Rich Eisen:Four times. Today's guests. ESPN senior NBA writer, Vincent Goodwill. Host of Pro Football Talk, Mike Florio. Your phone calls, latest news, and more. And now, it's Rich Eisen. That's correct. Welcome to this edition of the Rich Eisen Show here on a massive sports Wednesday right here in June 2026. Here on Disney Plus, the ESPN app, ESPN Radio, Sirius XM, Channel 80. Vince Goodwill is going to be joining us talking about the NBA Finals. That's what's going down. The Stanley Cup Final is now two games apiece. one of the more exhilarating cup finals we've seen in a while. We'll talk about it with you if you wish at 844-204-RICH is the number to dial.

2:30Rich Eisen:Mike Florio with everything going on in the National Football League as well. Our three's open, so we've got tons of time to play win-loss games or chat with you about anything that's going on in your world. Again, that number is 844-204-RICH, number to dial. This was SportsCenter. My conversation with Chris Berman has been out there for a couple of days right now. My conversation with Dan Patrick's been out since last Friday. It is a labor of love for me and our coordinating producer, Mike Hoskins, just absolutely crushing it with the edits and the production. This was SportsCenter presented by Gusto is out there for everybody on Disney Plus, the ESPN app, and the show's YouTube page for you to check out.

3:12Rich Eisen:Mike Greenberg is the next episode that drops Friday, as the kids might say. So I appreciate all the feedback, highly positive feedback that I'm seeing on all those fronts. Good to see you over there, Chris Brockman. What's going on? Hey, Rich. Good morning, man. What's up? Jason Feller wearing an old school Rich Eisen show lid, man. Whoa. I appreciate that. My favorite team. That is your favorite team. I appreciate that. Something that Del Tufo would never say. I mean. His favorite team right now is whatever is in the World Cup. I mean, the World Cup. Good to see you over there. TJ Jefferson.

3:42Rich Eisen:I don't know if you heard me making smooching sounds because Feller just. That's usually. It's usually your lane, TJ. It's your respect. Wow. Good to see you, TJ. First of all, watch your mouth. Secondly, third hour open. I got a lot of stories so we can fill it. Fantastic. It's a Wednesday, which is a Power Rankings Wednesday. I've got the Power Rankings of the top NFL defenses, as I see it, here in the middle of June. What are you basing this on? All right. If you want to know right now, last year's numbers of total defense, total points given up. and then just gut and feel. I like that. So in other words, I have no idea.

4:19Rich Eisen:But it's my opinion, and there are many like it, but this one is mine. Way, way too early? It doesn't matter. Defense has got it. It's coming up. Rich, your opinion's got your name on the cup. I appreciate it. So, you know. All right. And anything to pass the time to get rid of the nerves for tonight's game four, I'll tell you that. Oh, you're feeling it already? Really? You know, here's what I'm going to, you know, start with today. tonight is really going to be lit because trump's not going to be there there's no you know it's it's going to be back to the usual of the crowd back the crowd back there is a watch party although there's a big to do james dolan going at the mayor and a press release on tuesday night because he just can't freaking help himself and um but but the bottom line is it's it's back to if you will regular order and for the most part and the narratives from game three that are resonating now for game four are just epic absolutely completely epic from you know put up the the headlines of today's New York Post.

5:32Rich Eisen:The front page, it's a wanted poster, and it's the photograph of Wemby shoving Brunson down, which led to no call, right? And also led to the association putting one of their, the top official, if you will, on ESPN to say, we're looking at it. We're looking at it for a flagrant foul, possibly. and they looked at it and said there is no flagrant foul coming and that would be a big thing because when bunyama as you know already has uh two points against him if you get more than three i said two points against him due to that thrown elbow in the series against minnesota they cause him to be ejected but not suspended yeah four points automatic suspension right right so um put that uh if you don't mind the front page up again i know i'm prattling on here But the wanted poster is Wemba Nyama shoving Brunson down for crimes against the Knicks.

6:32Rich Eisen:Alias Wemby, height 7-4, nationality French, charge flagrant foul, reward NBA trophy. And then because, again, this is a Murdoch-run newspaper, they took a shot at the local district attorney. Wow. Saying even soft on crime DA Bragg would find him guilty. Wow. Can't help themselves. They just can't help themselves. That's really the DA's name? D-A-B-A-B-A-G. I believe Alvin Bragg is his name there in the city of New York.

7:01Rich Eisen:Backpage is sort of dovetailing on it, calling him skinny pop. Wow. Okay. Angry Knicks vowed to hit back tonight after Wemby's cheap shot on their captain. And the pull quote, as we use in the print business, that's out there. Jose Alvarado, who might, might, might go up to Wemby's thigh, says he got away with that one, but that'll be the last time. So here's the issue. If Jose Alvarado is going to be the Knicks enforcer, that's a problem. This is my point yesterday. Because Wemby could just knock him over with a stare. And, you know, that has been the narrative. Al Harrington has chimed in on it.

7:46Rich Eisen:That soundbites, wherever he said it, I believe is on a podcast somewhere saying that this is outrageous that the Knicks let Wembe and Yama get away with it. Draymond Green says if Wembe shoved Steph over like he shoved Brunson over, he said he would have gotten ejected on the spot. And so that's built up going into tonight that there is a certain sensibility that the old school Knicks would never have let go, countenanced, however you want to put it. Anthony Ramason or Oakley would have put somebody on their ass if anybody did that to, well, no one's going to do that to Ewing, but the best player of the Knicks is 6 '2", as listed, right?

8:39Rich Eisen:And so who's going to, like, if anybody goes in the direction of Jalen Brunson, right? Who's going to back the play? Now, obviously, it would be helpful if the ones that would just back the play would be the actual referees who are in charge of making sure this stuff is either A, not happening, or B, if it does, is properly charging a foul to whomever does this. Don't help. Because the video that you see also shows Cat being mugged at the same time. Yeah, but they always show the video right when Wemby shoves. Back it up a few seconds, and Brunson has him in a bear hug. Well, Brunson also, when he got shoved down, did have a grasp of Wemby Nama's jersey.

9:31Rich Eisen:So, yeah, the guy's just like, get off me. Well, then that brings into the point of like, how are you calling it in both ways? 24 free throws for the Spurs in the second half of game three. Just eight for the Knicks. Ten more free throws for the Spurs on game three. The Spurs actually have more than 20 free throws. And it is an advantage in this series by this point. The officiating for tonight, the officials have been named. Oh, hold on. I've got it for you. You got it. Pop it up. Zach Zarbo, who, if I'm not mistaken, is ranked number one by players in a vote, right? Yeah, he's the best official in the league.

10:13Rich Eisen:Okay, James Williams and Courtney Kirkland. So, series extender, Scott Foster, and also the most meaned official of the day, Tony Brothers. Neither are going to be on the court tonight. Yeah, Mark Davis, who was the lead official last game, he is the replay center ref tonight. So eyes on that because every single time a Nick gets touched tonight, the garden crowd is going to go absolutely nuts. It will be a hyper aware Nick's crowd this evening in Madison square garden, hyper aware of what's going on. And it will be a cauldron from jump in that regard this evening. who is getting fouled is it being called both ways and then if somebody dares to shove brunson over who's going to go chest to chest what's going to happen here so it's going to be an extremely tense evening in madison square garden especially because the Spurs are four quarters away from getting home court advantage back on a Wednesday night after a Friday night gave the Knicks a two games to none lead with two road wins and a ton of cushion going back into Madison Square Garden.

11:50Rich Eisen:If the Spurs respond by taking two in the garden, I said two games in the Garden to make it a best of three series with the Spurs having home court advantage, meaning the Knicks need to win once on their home floor to mean they don't need another win in San Antonio. That's what's at stake tonight. And the head coach, Mike Brown, was asked about, I guess it's only fitting in Madison Square Garden, where Billy Joel is the house band talking about pressure. Obviously, I'm a firm believer that you can grow and learn a lot in wins, but you can do the same as in losses too. And we have a veteran group, and nobody is quote-unquote panicking or anything like that.

12:52Rich Eisen:Everybody is disappointed. that we didn't go out and execute and play to what we feel our standard is. And that's not taking anything away from San Antonio. But we feel like we can play a lot better than what we did. And we're looking forward to going out on the floor and showing it. I think there's definitely going to be scuffles tonight. And I'm curious how that is officiated. How, who, and what are teed up. How they break it up. I think that's going to be a super interesting storyline. Well, the cast of Law and Order is courtside. You know? And I'll just say this.

13:39Rich Eisen:If you told me going into the NBA Finals, the Knicks would have a two games to one lead going into game four, I'd sign that piece of paper. No doubt. With this very pen of, you know, I thought this was your mold remediation pen. So did I. Always first environmental. I don't know what it is. What is that? I would have signed for it. And the Knicks team that had just ripped off 13 wins in a row in the playoffs constantly said, we're 0-0. These wins don't matter for tonight. So if that's the way they approach it coming off a win, you have to approach it that way coming off of a loss. And they have that mindset coming in.

14:21and one other thing i would say you have to learn to pace yourself pressure

14:30Rich Eisen:you're just like everybody else oh here we go you're just reading billy joling pressure you've only had a run so far so good but you will come to a place where the only thing you feel and you have to deal with pressure because i know you love this conversation oh more than anything in Rich Eisen? Who's under the most pressure? The Knicks better win tonight. Well, I'll just say this. They better win tonight. Hold on. If the Knicks don't win tonight, and it goes back to San Antonio, okay? Oh, man. Hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. And it goes back to San Antonio, and it's all dormy, and we're now going to hear that the Spurs are in a position to be the first team to ever lose the first two games of enemy finals on their home court oh pressure can shift and then you were and and and now now that's been erased and the knicks have got to go back to a spot where they by the way just won two in a row in front of the nuns in the produce department and everybody else that's there in their toy turquoise shirts and or some not right and if the spurs don't win then i then they've got to win three in a row against a team that just bounced back after a 13 game win streak in the playoffs.

15:52Rich Eisen:You're trying to say the Spurs had the pressure tonight? How do they not? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no, no. How do they not? The pressure is all on the Knicks tonight. Why? Okay? Why? Because then you, if you lose tonight, you have blown a 2-0 lead on the road going back to your house where you don't have to play another you know, you can win it at home. There's none of the Trump bad vibes tonight, so you don't have that excuse. The watch parties and all that stuff is still on. There's no bad vibes. Nobody's sleeping during the games. Like, all on the Knicks tonight. If you lose this series tonight, lose this game tonight, all the talk tomorrow is going to be like, Spurs got it.

16:33Knicks blew it.

16:33Rich Eisen:They had their chance. That's the only conversation. Or, thank you, TJ, as a Knick, I might think I'm going back to a place where I just won two games. Really? That is totally forgotten in everyone's mind. How can you say that? That might as well have been a month ago. Right. You're talking about people who are yippity yapping about the game, not the actual guys who are playing who knew that they just went to San Antonio and won two games. They already forgot about it. How can you say that? Listen, the bottom line is the Knicks would prefer not to be in that position. Yeah, obviously. Right. And they would be now just needing one win in their final three games that are still, if necessary, to win a championship.

17:12Rich Eisen:and all they got to do is just win at home. I'm just saying, if the Spurs don't win it, look out, man. Right? Look out. But this is the same position the Spurs were in last game when I was telling you the Knicks had all the pressure on them. And what happened? They came out early. Wemby dominated early, down double digits early. And then the Knicks took a seven-point lead at halftime, causing you to text the entire group saying the season, this series is over. Felt like it. And then what happened? They blew it. Then the Spurs took over, and the Knicks didn't make a fourth quarter three-pointer until it was too late.

17:48Rich Eisen:Horse was out of the barn. Spurs also missed seven free throws. I mean, that game shouldn't have been close at all. So where do you stand on this? Who's got the most pressure tonight? That's a great question. I've been sitting here listening to you guys go back and forth. I don't know if they're really... Spurs. I like it. Poll question. Spurs because it's all the most pressure to win tonight. Again, if you're the Knicks and you lose, it's still a tie series. You know, you're still tied. You lost all the momentum that you stole. That's fine. But if you're the Spurs and you lose, this is, you might as well change your name to Saran because it's a wrap.

18:25Rich Eisen:It's done. Unless, just ask the Cavs coming back from 3-1 down against, by the way, the Curry Warriors at the Zenith. Okay? Of their run. Yeah, but before. It's possible. Before Chris says it. Who's going to kick Remy in the nuts? Obviously, you knew this was coming. I went to say it before you did. You know what I mean? There was a person on that team who wasn't. No one on the Knicks is dumb enough to do that, are they? Alvarado's from Brooklyn. And I tweeted that Alvarado, DGAF the other day. Don't give a. I know that. And by the way, Sean Elliott came on our program just a couple weeks ago and said, look out for that guy.

19:03Rich Eisen:He's always given us problems. And he has done that. He has done that. But him as the enforcer. I wouldn't choose him. He would kind of be the last to say that. But I'm glad at least somebody said it. And as far as the Knicks feeling pressure, just go into this game thinking all your life is Channel 13. Sesame Street. What does it mean? I don't know that guys on that team are limited. Pressure. That's it. That's all it is. Embrace it. Just look up. That's Billy Joel's name in the roster and in the rafters. Well, it's the only banner up there. Wow. It's not true. That's funny. Funny. I appreciate it.

19:43Rich Eisen:That's a Celtic fan chiming in, being irrelevant right now. Like I said before, Rick. That's correct. I know what's going on. I know Knicks fans with no rings aren't talking to me right now. You're still caping for Luke Cornett over there. Like I said, though, the vibes are back. Vibrations count. We'll see. Vince Goodwill's next. And with you, 844-204-RICH, number to dial Vincent Goodwill, covering this series from NYC when we return.

20:13Rich Eisen:The Rich Isis Show Podcast.

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22:13Rich Eisen:Back on the Rich Eisen Show. 844-204-RICH is the number to dial. We love when Vincent Goodwill stops by, and he stops by right here, suited and booted, ready for 24. Look at him. Yeah, boy, let's go. Good to see you, Vincent. How are you, sir? Good afternoon, guys. Because I had to do get up this morning, so it's been a long day. Okay. it's going to be a i'm excited man well i appreciate you staying up and staying suited and boot uh i appreciate that um okay we just started the conversation vincent about how the narratives from game three that are going to truly roost in game four um i think it's the officiating and and and and if they just spend the first six seven minutes just letting everything go like game three, we're running some risks, quite frankly.

23:02Rich Eisen:What's been the conversation, do you think, on that front, Vincent? Well, it's always weird from game to game because it's a different officiating crew. Every game, Zach Zalba tonight is the league's lead official. He might be the NBA's best official, and the players respect him, and they like him, and he's always communicative with those guys. So I think tonight during the captain's meetings, it literally only takes maybe 30 seconds guys you bring the two captains together the players will talk amongst themselves they'll say hey i'll let you play tonight or hey you know let's watch out for this i don't think that we are at the risk of something ugly happening like this is the nba finals i think there's a lot of chatter but nobody wants to get thrown out of a game i think what happened with victor wimbenyama the other day that was a little retaliatory for things that have been happening throughout the course of the series but at least I don't think unless Charles Oakley gets his band lifted and comes into the garden tonight I don't think crazy is going to happen on the floor well I mean that that said um there has been a conversation that I'm sure some Knicks players have heard is that you can't allow Jalen Brunson to be shoved over in your garden and and be able to live to tell the tale you shouldn't let that happen and uh i don't know who's going to be the guy if it happens again um or if the officials will just say we've got this let's not have any vigilantism here but i i certainly know the garden crowd will be hyper aware, hyper aware from jump as to whistles, where they are, where they aren't for sure.

24:49Rich, it's going to be a, I won't say desperate atmosphere, but I feel like that's the word, right? That have so much on the line for tonight. The pressure is all on them. If this series goes back to San Antonio 2-2, you have done undid all of your great work throughout the course of this series. So as far as Jalen Brunson goes, there has to be someone that says we have to protect our captain. We have to protect our leader. What that looks like can be on a multitude of things. It doesn't mean you go after Victor Wimbiniama, Rich. It means, you know what? Maybe I'll set a hard screen on Stephon Castle.

25:22Maybe I'll set a really hard screen. Maybe it's clean. Maybe it's an offensive file, but it's a physical screen that sets the tone. Like we think of like mano e mano, like, oh, you took out Brunson. I'm going to take out Victor Wimbiniama. It doesn't work like that the officials are going to be on so they're gonna be so hypersensitive to that stuff that it has to be a little more subtle and here's the honest part of it guys the knicks were not in the other night the spurs were by far the more physical aggressive team and when that happens the reps look at it and say oh if this team is playing on this tone and you guys are not matching their physicality don't expect us to bail you out so i do think the knicks have to in general take a more physical, a more aggressive tone, but they just have to know where the line is.

26:11That's always a tricky thing when there's a new officiating crew from night to night. Where is the line? It usually evens out over the course of a seven-game series, but it's going to be interesting to see who does what this evening.

26:22Rich Eisen:Vincent Goodwill here on the Rich Eisen Show. Another narrative that you just pointed out was pressure. You just echoed what Chris Brockman said to start our broadcast, that the pressure's all on the Knicks. you know obviously I gave some pushback to that being a native of Brooklynite who grew up in Staten Island New York that if the Spurs lose this then they've got to win three in a row against a team that had won 13 in a row in the playoffs including two on the Spurs home court they have to win three in a row against that team that just bounced back so I'll throw that in your lap. Vincent, what do you think?

27:02You're not wrong. And clearly there's only been one team to come back from a 3-1 deficit in the NBA finals in 2016. LeBron and Steph and everything that was dripping in that series. I think once you get to the NBA finals, there's pressure all around. There's nobody that says, oh, you know, it's acceptable for us to lose tonight. We got three more games in this series. Every game is dripping with drama. I don't know if we express as media, at least those of us who sit courtside who cover the league really closely, how physical and how emotionally draining these games are. Everybody feels that pressure.

27:40Jalen Brunson most certainly feels that pressure. We know Carl Towns feels that pressure. But playing under, like you said, you're playing at Madison Square Garden this evening. Tonight's gonna be a little more of a, shall we say rich normal atmosphere tonight a little abnormal maybe tonight it's going to be a little more normal as far as you know people who won't be there people who ain't gonna be falling asleep stuff like that right like those things so with that being said if the knicks can get themselves into their normal rhythm right the normal just game day rhythms the normal the normalcy of what this is going to be i think by and large they're going to be fine but you're going to have 20 ,000 nervous New Yorkers in this building.