Hour 2: Broncos vs Raiders Preview, plus Former NFL Exec Joe Banner

25:10Rich Eisen:Well, the only reason why I'm also bringing it up is, and I'm not trying to kick a hornet's nest here, but there are Jet fans, including some very young ones whose videos went viral, who fell in love with Sauce Gardner, and they're wondering why he had to go after you just re-signed him, and he's going to be there forever. And then you hear, well, when we did the contract, we wanted to make sure there was language in there that we could trade him as soon as possible if the situation came up. Why would you? Listen, I understand due diligence, but unless there was any smoke that was already happening there, did they do that for Garrett Wilson would be a follow-up?

25:41Rich Eisen:You know what I mean? Like what's up with that, Joe? And that's why I'm trying to see if there's, am I on to something here? I just need to move on. I mean, no, listen, I think what probably reflects is there was some difference of opinion about whether to do that extension or not. and then hopefully there's an organizational philosophy that we're going to manage our cap at least until we're good and trying to get from good to great we're going to manage our cap and maintain flexibility as much as we can which i think a lot of the teams that are kind of copying the eagles model are doing it too early it's something that's worth considering doing when you get to the point where you have a chance to be really good compete advance in the playoffs it's not something that in my opinion makes sense when you're winning three five seven games a year And the path to getting beyond that, probably because you don't have a quarterback, is hard to see at the moment.

26:29So the thinking that, you know, they did this well, now they get a quarterback. You know, it happens sometimes, but most of the time the teams that get the first or second pick need a quarterback. So accumulating assets to trade with them occasionally works, but usually you've got to be the one that was bad enough to get the first or second pick, their pick in the draft. Usually there's not more than two quarterbacks in the draft. And plenty of times we get two drafted, but there's only one. So you really got to be on the first or second pick to feel confident that history says I'm likely to pick a quarterback here that's going to be good.

26:58But I'm assuming that he's speaking in generalities. And at least until they get good, I think that's much smarter than the way most teams think about doing contracts right now. And he understands the value of maintaining the flexibility. This is highly unusual. Hopefully this doesn't happen very often. But to at least be preparing for the possibility to do it by maximizing the flexibility, your cap and your contracts are structured, is smart. he's doing that. That's a very good thing to be doing. He should stick with that for now.

27:26Rich Eisen:Joe Banner here on the Rich Eisen Show. All right, so there's three teams that I'm interested in hearing about your opinion about where they are and how they can move forward. And let's start with the Dolphins. You just referred to them, Joe, and I believe you are there in the Sunshine State. So what do you think their options are now? They bounce Chris Greer before the trade deadline. They trade Jalen Phillips away. Jalen Waddell is still there. You mentioned to his contract. There's a coach who's still under contract. We don't know what the future. Walk me through, read me the tea leaves of what you think the Dolphins have done and what their options are moving forward here.

28:04I'm concerned if somebody is rooting for them. Listen, the owner really has one job. They can do more. They can be helpful in many areas, but they really have one job. They have to succeed from a fan perspective because all the fan really cares about is how many games you're going to win. and that is he has to get two to three hires right. Depending upon your structure, you have to have a general manager, head coach, and I think ideally a team president, all of whom are really good at their job, and then you will be able to compete with the best teams in the league. It's interesting to me because Steve Ross I know reasonably well.

28:37He's a nice guy. He's a very smart guy. He's been very successful. But he has not mastered the ability to hire well at the top of his organization going back from the time that he became the owner of the team. And that's the reason they haven't done better. And, you know, I know Greer, he's a good guy. He's a hard worker, but he got nine years. We talk about some situations with people too impatient. I don't know how you justified all nine years of that. There were a lot of mistakes made during that time, including hiring of coaches. I think the, you know, I was with Mike briefly. We overlapped in Cleveland.

29:14The reputation he has as being an offensive mind is well-deserved. I mean, I've been with Andy Reid. I've been with John Gruden. I've been with names that are probably less relevant today, Sean Payton. A lot of the coaches that are top offensive minds now, he's as good as any of them. So I put him in the upper echelon of offensive minds. But the job description for a coordinator and head coach is just totally different. And if you hire a coordinator that doesn't have the abilities that differentiate the good head coaches from the good coordinators, then you're going to be disappointed. So Mike has done, I'd say, a solid job, but not what you'd be hoping for the day you hired him.

29:52And I think it's because some of the qualities he has as head coach or you need as head coach aren't the same strengths as he demonstrates when he develops his offense. Part of that should have been working with Chris and having a team building philosophy, you know, from our conversations. To me, you've got to dominate the lines of scrimmage. You've got to have a good quarterback. Some teams build their team. We've got to have good corners and we've got to have good wide receivers. That's what the Dolphins have been doing. To me, it's not like you can't succeed that way, but the odds of succeeding under that scenario are just not as high.

30:20We used to estimate that the teams were consistently making the top eight in the NFL. 75 % of them believed in this philosophy, well, you must dominate the line of scrimmage. And about a quarter of them were building their team around things like weapons and secondary play. So to me, there is no real legitimate argument what the right team building philosophy for. The Dolphins have not had that ever, as far as I'm concerned. They dabbled in it a little bit here and there, but they never made it like we're not going to win big until we fix this problem. So I'm worried. It sounds like there's a real chance they keep Mike.

30:53I don't really want to take a shot at him because there are elements what he does. He's in the top group in the league. But as a head coach, he hasn't proven to me he can do all of that. And, you know, they're going to have to find a general manager. in my opinion, if they keep the head coach, it's going to be much harder to find the people there. And, you know, listen, it's not a good roster.

31:11Rich Eisen:Well, I mean, the Tua contract rests on top of all this. I mean, I understand about the command and control structure, and obviously that's crucial. I would never push back against you, but, you know, you've got to get the quarterback, right? And that contract is what, in your estimation? You want to finish that sentence? I mean, it's either, I mean, it takes a massively bigger cap hit over two years than we've ever seen, even more than what Denver did a couple of years ago. And it leaves you with no quarterback. So where is that? You have no quarterback. You have a head coach I don't think is quite good enough to get you where you're trying to go, and you don't have a general manager.

31:51Ideally, you'd have somebody who felt like, you know what, I don't think Tua is hopeless. Let's give it a year. We're probably in the early phase of doing what we did with the Eagles, what the Jets just did. We're probably going to move. By the way, the Jets would have been doing the right thing if they had moved older players that had some value, maybe not as high. So I think they're thinking, again, the right way. But young players that can be a big part of a team in two years, three years, I would not move. The Dolphins don't even have any of those people that talk about moving. They have some people that maybe get something in the middle.

32:19I mean, I saw people talking about people they could get third-round picks for that they'd be lucky if they got a fifth or sixth-round pick for. I mean, Waddell, in my mind, is the only person they could have traded. And even there, the numbers are grossly exaggerated. But he would have real value in the trade market. they've decided not to do that. So I don't know what they're doing. They're not acknowledging we're in a really bad place. We've got to kind of tear down the house and rebuild it. And they're not doing anything proactive that makes you think in any short period of time they can get to be really competitive, especially now that it looks like the Patriots are going to be good again for a long time.

32:49I think Buffalo is going to be good for a long time. Maybe the Jets can get there. And then you've got Miami. You know, they've got a long way to go to even have a chance to compete to win their division.

32:59Rich Eisen:Joe Banner here on the Rich Eisen Show. All right, let's talk about the Eagles, where Howie did trade for Jalen Phillips, Jair Alexander, Michael Carter, and other teams in this mix. I mean, you saw the Colts get aggressive, and you saw Philadelphia do the usual thing, Howie did his usual thing. We all here say that if we're a general manager and we see a 215 number, we're just not answering it. You know what I mean? And like, that's the way we've been saying that he's the Obi-Wan Kenobi of this sport, making you believe that draft picks, you can part with them. So the bottom line is, why do you think the Eagles did what they did and other teams didn't?

33:41Rich Eisen:Is there a philosophy here that you can sort of cookie cutter here for us, Joe? Well, I don't understand why there was no competing team that wouldn't offer the same third round pick, which is almost certainly going to be higher than the Eagles to get this player, even on a half-a-season basis. You've got to remember the Eagles' philosophy for a long time is they either, which is the case here, they already had accumulated an extra third-round pick in case they needed the flexibility. And if they didn't have one, I'm going to tell you, they would have just taken their first-round pick, traded back four spots.

34:10They know the math. Let's say you have the 20th pick or the 24th pick. The percentage of times you'll hit on the pick is exactly the same. So he could take, just making up a number, obviously, the 20th pick, trade off the 24th pick he's replaced the third round pick so he got the player for nothing because the odds of the pitting on the same pick in the first round at 20 or 24 or 26 and 30 is the same i don't know why every team in the league doesn't know that and manage their team as if that's just a fact but as as your question indicated most teams don't but it was a good example though the eagles have six good defensive linemen they're used to having eight or nine So they're putting a defensive pass rusher as a need when nobody else in the league would look at their roster and think it's a need.

34:55So that's where it starts. They have a team building philosophy that they're committed to. And I believe, you know, they've been winning for 30 years. The people that came through to Philadelphia, like the Sean McDermott, John Harbaugh, Sean Payton, Andy Reeds, are all practicing a version of the same team building philosophy. And guess what? I just rattled off probably five of the best seven or eight teams in the whole league. So that's why I say to me, there is no debate any longer about what's the right team building philosophy, where you are in the development and all that kind of stuff. So the Eagles did what they do.

35:23And in that particular specific example, now the two corners they got is another example of what they historically done. Our philosophy was if we get a clear cut solution to a problem on something that's important, let's go get it. If we don't, and we literally used to use this phrase, let's throw a whole bunch of darts at it that at least one has a chance to come through. So he acquires two corners that aren't even really playing much for two teams that have won three games or less so far this season. But there is reason to think maybe. And, you know, they acquired somebody earlier in the year and they did some things in the offseason.

35:54So I know what he's doing. He's sitting there going, you know, I'm looking at the Rosses up there. I'm looking who's available for trade. I'm looking at what I'm willing or hoping to have to not give up like first or second round picks. You know, I think I'm better off just throwing a whole bunch of darts at this problem and hoping. I mean, if Alexander plays anything like he did, you know, two or three years ago, which may not be in the cards, but he's feeling like, you know, if I got four of the people that could be him, maybe just one of them will at least come through for just, you know, eight, 10, 12 games, depending on how long they play in the postseason.

36:23So to me, it's just very basic common sense. It is a mystery why more teams aren't copying some of the elements. I mean, the whole league knew Jalen Phillips was available. I mean, San Francisco didn't think it was worth maybe a third round pick. It's probably a fairly late third round pick, but much higher than the Eagles. You know, Dallas, they were obviously trying to improve their pass rush. They didn't think he's worth a third round pick, maybe because they traded the other players who, to me, you know, good pickups, but they don't really enhance dramatically their pass rush, which, again, is the key.

36:53So, you know, I just the Eagles are just consistently smart. Although, Howie, it's funny to me, I say this to you because, you know, I think you probably witnessed the same thing. for the first eight years how he was his general manager he made a lot of moves some very good some not so good but no matter what he did he was criticized for it he was just totally demonized especially in the philadelphia market now he's kind of flipped the script which i can't think of anybody else who's ever done that to where he gets the benefit of doubt on every move you know he makes uh and he he's earned that but he also was over criticized the first group of years when everybody's looking at the moves he was making because they weren't winning super bowls they weren't advancing even that deep in the playoffs.

37:34And instead of being able to, you know, isolate the moves and make a fair judgment of him, they just lumped him, you know, with a kind of a non-football guy label and didn't recognize it was actually proven. I was flabbergasted when Jeff kind of demoted him when Chip was there, because it was obvious to me, at least, and I thought others that, you know, he had talent. Now, would he become the best-gen-measured league? You know, that's a projection, a hope. You can't know that. But it seemed like it was possible. He's got the guts. He's got the fearlessness. He has the ability to evaluate. He's got a strong team-building philosophy.

38:05So I have no answer to why the rest of the league seems to be sleeping on some things. I mean, he acquired Darius Slay for, I think, was he with the third or fourth pick five years ago, and he helped him get to two Super Bowls. Where was everybody when that happened? It wasn't that hard to figure that Darius Slay was worth the third or fourth round pick. I mean, the original managers aren't on the phone until they read in the paper that so-and-so may be available. Howie's talking to 31 teams all the time, all the time. So he's never surprised by something that's coming up. He has a pretty good idea himself.

38:38He's not designating all of that. He may designate some of that, but he constantly has a feel for what's coming up and what's possible.

38:45Rich Eisen:I love it. I only have two minutes left, and I know this is more than a two-minute answer, Joe, but what do you think the Browns are up to? Oh, God.

38:55It's very hard to understand. Listen, at this point, I think they're trying to end up with as high a pick as they can. it doesn't make any sense to me trading Pritchett and Flacco. And, you know, I know that the Belgians were upset that they traded him in the division, but why wouldn't they? That means they lose another game when they play them. You know, they can't get the benefit of his talent versus the young guys. I mean, they're doing the right thing and seeing if the young quarterbacks have what it could take or they just have to pick somebody this year. I don't think either of them have what it takes, in my opinion, by the way.

39:24I know there's a lot to talk about Sanders. and listen they could lose all five of their offensive linemen at the end of the season I'll have to decide they're not good enough and they just had a draft that at least in Cleveland was covered as a great draft without picking one offensive lineman even at the end of the draft to possibly develop I just don't understand I mean that's just a way off base team building philosophy so I mean you know I think Sopansky is actually a good coach I don't think he's a great coach I think he's a good coach but he's had six years now I think Andrew Barry is a smart hard-working, you know, good guy, but I think he's had a fair chance to really demonstrate that they could build a roster that if they fix the quarterback problem can go a long way.

40:05I don't think they're there yet either. I think the defense is a BB plus. I don't think it's an A either, but it's a very good defense. It's in the top, maybe third of the defenses in the league. So I don't know. To me, they got to get back to basics. They got to make some front office changes. They got to get to the point where they can dominate those lines. And hopefully they got a high enough pick that one of the quarterbacks that's there is their answer.

40:26Rich Eisen:Joe Banner, I love chatting with you, man. You make me smarter. You make all of us smarter. You just spit what's in your heart and your mind, and we appreciate you sharing it with us. Really appreciate it. Let's do this again soon again. I appreciate you saying that. I'll be able anytime you need me. Love it. Ladies and gentlemen, long-time executive in the National Football League who's been there, done that, and knows all about it. Joe Banner right here on the Rich Ossens Show. Alright, we've got to jump to break. Let's do it. We're back with your phone calls. 844-204-RICH. Lots to chew on that we just got.

40:55Rich Eisen:Coming up.

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42:19Rich Eisen:and because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast. ESPN Radio is presented by Progressive Insurance. They make the claims process easy so you can get back on the road in no time. It's why over 43 million drivers trust Progressive. See for yourself at progressive.com. Hey, we haven't talked about the biggest blowout of the weekend. I mean, there was, out of all the curb stomping and all the blowouts of the weekend that we didn't talk about, one of them helped kick off the weekend.

43:06Rich Eisen:Maybe you missed it on Halloween night. It was my destruction of Candace Parker and Dwight Howard on Celebrity Wheel of Fortune. Oh, I did miss this. Oh, yeah. There it is. Yeah, that was... It's not often you're the shortest guy in the photo either. You know what? It doesn't look great for me. By the way, two sweetheart individuals. And there I am right in the middle. How am I in the middle with Vanna and Seacrest on the left? Amazing. There you go. I dressed down a little bit. I don't know what I... I don't know. You got shoulder rich too. Well, I mean, they have height. They got height. Shoulder.

43:45Rich Eisen:I think you'd rather have height. They have head and shoulders. in terms of the vertical. But in terms of the vast difference that could be mentioned, it would be the final dollar amount that we won for our charities. $88 ,000 for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. That's a new one? And I didn't even win in either one of the bonus rounds. Wow. So kind of like you lost the showcase showdown, kind of. Well, you know what? Twice, like you lost both opportunities. But I'll be honest with you, TJ, it is an out-of-body experience to actually play a game show that you have spent decades watching.

44:27Rich Eisen:Trying to tell you guys. Oh, we did it on the feud, and that was an absolute blur. But I had a different approach than TJ. I showed up to play all business. All business. You're all entertainment. Like, oh, let me have fun. Like that look on my face there, I'm squeezing the hell out of that buzzer. And that look, it wasn't just like resting you-know-what face. I was not going to lose. I didn't show up on the wheel for the first time in my life after my brother and niece both appeared on it. I wasn't going to show up and get shown up by two Hall of Fame basketball players. That just wasn't going to happen.

45:11Rich Eisen:Holler at your boy. And at one point, TJ, I had to catch myself. I'm like, I'm too serious. What point in the game was that, though? It was when I was watching Dwight spin the wheel. Okay. And I may have said something along the lines of keep going as it approached the bankrupt. And I thought it sounded like I wanted it to land on bankrupt, but I was saying, you know, and I'm like the way my tone was like somebody could have thought like I wanted him to bankrupt because he was right next to me I would have control of the wheel if you're bankrupted I mean you wanted him to bankrupt though right um and I thought to myself I need to relax and you even made a point to me that it sounded like I was rooting for them yeah I mean you definitely at one point you were rooting for Candace because well she's you know there was a point she was I'm struggling with the LeBron James Bond answer.

46:12Rich Eisen:That's right. But I just realized I'm way too serious about this. Well, it's not a game, Rich. I always say that. It's not a game. You went on the price, and you're like, I'm not looking at the key. There's a difference. I'm going to dance my way off a contestant's row. Yeah, but there's a difference. You're playing hangman, and you're someone who your entire life revolves around words. They're athletes. Like, it's different. Like, what I was doing was a game of luck. Like, I'm just, we're guessing. Like, the words are in front of you. Like, you should have dominated that. You should have. I mean, let's be honest.

46:51Rich Eisen:You should have. Okay. Like, magic. What was the key thing? Well, I mean, I. Like, mine is just based on blind luck. Like, you're worse. You're definitely blind. You weren't looking when you were looking for the master key. The Ridge Eisen Show Podcast. Uncovered windows can make your home feel up to 20 degrees hotter. Stay cool and save up to 45 % off custom window treatments during the 4th of July VIP Access Sale at blinds.com. From outdoor shades to room darkening blinds, finding the perfect fit is easy. Get free samples, expert design help, and professional measure and install services. Or DIY it with confidence and support every step of the way.

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