Hour 2: From the NFL Combine with Robert Saleh, Steelers GM Omar Khan & Lions GM Brad Holmes

11:36Omar Khan:Oh, I can't wait. It's long overdue. Pittsburgh is the perfect city to be hosting this event. It is great. You know, it's a great sports town, as everybody knows. Yes. The city of Pittsburgh and the Western PA have so much to offer. And I can't, you know, I've been there now since, what, 2001. And I love it. Like, the city has, the region has so much to offer. And I can't wait for all you guys to kind of see what's out there. I can't wait either.

12:04Rich Eisen:It's such a beautiful city. It's going to be lit up on the first night, second night. very few cities glimmer like Pittsburgh when it's night time. It truly is awesome. It's going to be a spectacle, to say the least. And as you know, when the draft travels, there's different fan bases that get a sense to show their civic pride and boo another team that's on the clock. For instance, the Bears got booed heavily last year in Green Bay, whereas when the draft was in Chicago, Green Bay got booed and things. Which team would you predict is going to get booed the loudest at the Pittsburgh draft? That is a tough question.

12:44Rich Eisen:But I only ask those. I need an answer. What's your prediction for the decibel meter?

12:52Omar Khan:The AFC North is pretty special and unique. So if I had to guess, I think it's going to be equally divided amongst the other three AFC North teams. You can't do it.

13:03Rich Eisen:Give me the one team in the AFC North that you think is going to get booed the loudest. Oh, man, you're putting me on the spot here. Come on, it's all good.

13:12Omar Khan:You know, we have mutual respect with all three teams. It's just... You got it. I know which one it is. I mean, it's going to be, I would say, you know, probably when Cleveland's up on the clock.

13:23Rich Eisen:Cleveland, okay. I would think Baltimore, because Baltimore is like every single year that you kind of stand in each other's way.

13:29Omar Khan:You know, it's a great rivalry, though. But the Browns, that's it? The Browns. Yeah, I mean, you're putting me on the spot here. I mean, it's going to be pretty close.

13:37Rich Eisen:I know it's going to be. We're not going to really have a decibel meter on it. So your message to Steeler fans, who you've heard it. I mean, Tomlin heard it all the time. And the fact that this team has not won a playoff game in a time that you're used to having them. Yep. Right? What's your message right now? Mike McCarthy's coming in. don't know where the quarterback is. There are some, you know, lionhearted veterans on this team. Cam Hayward's one of my favorites. I'm assuming you're having conversations with him about coming back. Cam, yeah.

14:11Omar Khan:I met with Cam right after the season. You know, it was obviously emotional because Mike had just stepped down and we agreed to speak in a few weeks and that's coming up. But you know, he's a Hall of Fame player. Sure.

14:26Rich Eisen:So he's still on your radar screen to return as well. Okay, so what's your message to Steeler fans, Omar Khan?

14:31Omar Khan:Just trust that we're looking to win Super Bowls here, and that's what we work towards every single year, and we understand that what's happened the last few years is unacceptable, and just like every year, we're evaluating everything in the organization and seeing where can we improve, but I assure you, our goal is to win a Super Bowl.

14:52Rich Eisen:All right, and before I let you go, the one guy in your tenure with Pittsburgh or doing any of this business in the NFL that you saw at the Combine and that you and the rest of the brass identified at the Combine and were like, okay, we're going to draft this kid, and he turned out to be exactly who you hoped. Was there one person like that, Omar? That's a tough one, man.

15:16Omar Khan:These are some tough questions.

15:18Rich Eisen:Hey, man, this is what happens when you show up on the Rich Eisen Show. Yeah, that's good. Which I appreciate, by the way.

15:22Omar Khan:Yeah, no, thanks for having me on. So, man, that's...

15:26Rich Eisen:saw him at the combine you know tested well checked every box grease board i've been by the way i've been in that stealer room with tom on years ago he let me in there i remember on the grease board sitting in the back i was scared i remember and i wasn't on the grease board you know but serious business i remember all that look it's it's hard to pick just one but

15:47Omar Khan:uh you know it's just and we this goes way back since i you know since i started you know we you Obviously, Ben Roethlisberger and Troy Palamalu, there's been some great players.

15:58Rich Eisen:So Ben, obviously, he did test those in the old RCA Dome. That was one of our first—that was, in fact, I believe, our first combine. That was your— Yeah, at NFL Network. Yeah, kid from Miami of Ohio. Yeah. And you saw—everybody saw that he was—

16:13Omar Khan:Yeah, and it was the three quarterbacks that year, right? Everybody was trying to sort out who's going to go where. And, yeah, he was good. You know, Troy Palamalu. I mean, there's been so many good, great players, Steelers. Like, I just, it's hard to pick just one. Cam, you know, there's just so many guys. Yeah. Good to have you here. Great to be on. Thanks, man. I hope to see you in Pittsburgh.

16:34Rich Eisen:I will be there. You'll be there? Oh, heck yeah, man. From pick one to pick last. I'm the only one who does that on TV, man. Yeah. So many other people tap out after one day, after two days. I'm there to Mr. Irrelevant. It's going to be great. It's going to be awesome. Do you need advice where to go? Well, I'm going to get my fries on my sandwich. if that makes any sense to you. And on the salads. That's it. Thank you for that heads up. Omar Khan here on the Rich Eisen Show. By the way, the follically challenged hour continues with Robert Sala next right here on the Rich Eisen Show from Indianapolis, Indiana at the Scouting Combine.

17:10Rich Eisen:The Rich Eisen Show podcast.

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19:17Rich Eisen:The ESPN Radio audience is back. We've got Robert Sala right here on the Rich Eisen Show as part of our ESPN cable and Disney Plus and ESPN Radio simulcast here on the program. the time that you had in San Francisco after, you know, your time with the Jets, and you had some time to sit here and think, I get another head coaching gig. I am not going to do this, or I will not allow that to be set up in a way that I don't want it. How have you brought that to Tennessee right now?

19:54Robert Saleh:Yeah, that's a fair question. And, you know, I've and we can stay here for a couple hours and go through all of it. But, you know, I've the one thing I keep repeating myself on is that there's really no first year. There's no handbook for a first time at anything you do. Right. You know, like there's no no handbook for a first time owner, no handbook for a first time host. There's no correct, no handbook for a first time head coach. And and I think we could all agree that if we look back at our first day, we'd all agree that we're more prepared for our moments than we are. we were back then. And there was a lot of things that I learned throughout that process that I'm, that I'm taking with me.

20:30Robert Saleh:There's a lot of things that I'm leaving behind and there's still a lot of room for me to grow also. And, you know, so like I've said, I'm grateful for the opportunity I had in New York. I'm more prepared now than I ever was. And just really looking forward to this one. I'm with you, Robert.

20:45Rich Eisen:I mean, we'll sometimes show video of moments from 10 years ago on the show um and it's tough for me to watch that stuff honestly because i think i'm better at what i do now than i was then i also i'm watching some interviews where i'm um i know i'm i'm kind of struggling for the next question with this interview subject i just know what's going on in my head yeah watching it back and it's tough for me to do so i'm wondering what are you what are you doing different what are you going to do differently like you got a specific one that you

21:19Robert Saleh:You know, there's always pushing the envelope with what I'm going to do, like from an evolution standpoint. But the most superficial one, just one of the things that I feel is my strengths is my connection to the players. And I felt not calling plays, for example, in New York kept me from being able to connect to the players the way I feel like I need to, to be able to build the relationships that are needed to have success. So it is one thing that I am adamant about doing just to help me stay connected to the guys and to the team for that matter. But that's probably the most superficial one. But there's certain things within the office, how we're scheduling, how we're meeting.

22:05Robert Saleh:You know, my time in Green Bay with Matt LaFleur, I thought some things that he did was really cool. And not that we're doing things exactly, but just to cherry pick one or two things here or there and then going back to San Francisco and piecing the puzzle back together, you're always kind of evolving and you're always growing and not being closed-minded. You know, there's always two ways to approach things that when you don't have success, you can either from an egotistical standpoint, you can point the finger and say, well, you know, you kind of got screwed in the process, or you can look inward and just try to find the ways to get better and find your weak spots and try to make them strengths.

22:42Robert Saleh:And that's kind of what I've been doing for the last year, year and a half.

22:44Rich Eisen:You know, it's kind of crazy how things work in the NFL. I mean, once upon a time, you were the head coach of the Jets. Your offensive coordinator is head coach of the Giants in that live stadium at the same time, right? I mean, like you're sharing a stadium together. Now you're sharing a team together, right, where you're the head coach of the Tennessee Titans calling the defensive plays. And you have handed off a very important gig to Brian Dayball as the OC and the guy who's like, you're going to connect at the hip to Cam Ward, and that's the success. Yes, you can handle your end of the business on the defensive side of the ball while also being the CEO of the operation.

23:20Rich Eisen:But the very crucial aspect of what you have delegated to Brian Dayball is pretty huge. And I'm wondering what you can share with us about how you envision that partnership.

23:31Robert Saleh:Yeah, you know, it's it's it's ultimately it's a partnership really in all three phases. And like I said, like super, like really, really excited about the staff that we were able to put together, especially when you consider all the competition. I think there's 18 OC jobs open this year. There's 10 head coaching jobs. And there was a lot of movement, more movement than normal in our league. And there was a lot of competition for Gus Bradley. There was a lot of phone calls to get Bones out from his role. There was a lot of competition for Dayball. And for them to choose us amongst all the offers that they were given, I think it's a testament to what we have going on over here.

24:11Robert Saleh:and speak on Dayball, there's a lot of empathy between he and I and just an understanding of how to handle things. You know, we've been through the same. We bounced ideas off each other when we were both in New York, and I'll continue to do the same thing here along with Gus and Bones. And, you know, so from a staff standpoint and building it, you know, you talk about what's different. The staff is much more experienced than my first staff in New York, you know. So just taking a different approach and leaning into guys that have done it before, who have had a lot of success in this league before, and who have constantly evolved who they are in this league.

24:54Robert Saleh:So it's exciting to have all three of them.

24:57Rich Eisen:Well, obviously, and again, Dayball in particular. You just asked Josh Allen about how important Dayball was in his growth. Obviously, Jackson Dart last year is another one. And Daniel Jones, the year that Dayball won Coach of the Year, was spectacular in that role. So what's the growth you're looking to see from Cam Ward with Dayball at the controls?

25:21Robert Saleh:The expectations are going to be the same, you know, and it's why I was so attracted to Dayball. And like I said, with the experience aspect, he's done it before. He's done it with not once, but multiple times. he's a guy that I've we've had to go against several times we've practiced against them I just love the way he operates I love the way his I love his mindset I love the way he speaks to his players I love the confidence that he injects into his players along with the accountability that he holds and the standard that he holds them to he is a no-nonsense coach but he does it in a way that that still shows the love that these players need and so when you when you when you're looking at a guy like dabe's uh he's not gonna be here long we're gonna have success he's we're gonna win a lot of football games he's gonna get another opportunity also fourth overall pick

26:11Rich Eisen:obviously you're not gonna reveal anything just yet it's still also being formulated right now what's your approach for this crucial first selection for you as the hc of the tennessee

26:24Robert Saleh:titans uh you know there there's there's a lot of things that still got to take place there's obviously this is the first one uh this one gets the most attention but there's so many zoom meetings there's uh informals that are happening there's pro days that are happening there's private visits that are happening the 30 visits that are happening and so this is just scratching the surface with regards to the information that uh that we're gathering and and i think when you're when you're drafting fourth overall we're in a position where we can draft the best player on the board and uh whoever that is uh when we're done with the evaluation process is this is going

26:57Rich Eisen:be the big winner but how i mean again just to revisit the fact that you you're quarterbacks in place you know what i mean like you took the job and you know what cam ward has done you've already seen what he did last year you're able to have that handled what about the rest of this team that you're ready to get your hands on here specifically that yeah there's mention here

27:22Robert Saleh:everything that we do is always going to involve the quarterback in terms of uh helping him develop And so building a football team that can support him, I think, especially when you're a young quarterback, asking a young quarterback to carry a team 60 plays a game is a little unrealistic. So for all of us, as we go through this process, just being mindful of what actually helps a quarterback just be a quarterback and just be a piece of the puzzle. There's going to be a time when Cam puts his team on his back, And it could be this year, depending on how he develops as a player. But asking him to do that and expecting him to do that, I do think is unrealistic.

28:04Robert Saleh:So everything that we do, all our meetings, everything that we do is going to be about the quarterback and his development, along, obviously, with the rest of the roster. And Jeffrey Simmons might season him up a little bit more.

28:16Rich Eisen:Oh, yeah. Well, the two of them went at it last summer. I don't know if you're aware of that from your position in San Francisco. The two of them would go at it.

28:22Robert Saleh:cam ward and and simmons cam cam's not going to back down from anyone he's an ultra competitor that's again that's that's it's why i'm driven to him uh he's uh and and he's not fake either you know just he's been in the building every day just going through his workouts and all that stuff and i don't think there's a day that goes by where he doesn't go through the entire building to say hello to people and right i just find it so impressive that a young man and especially in this day day and age just i think he knows every single person in the building their name and and what they do and uh for him to be just as a rookie with all the stuff that's happening to be conscientious enough to go through and just learn everybody right i think that it says a lot about who he is um you know the the young man wants to win just like we all do and uh simmons is nasty and simmons you can you can you can do some things oh man when you talk about jeffrey um we've had some good ones in my you know in our system from buckner to armstead i mean quinn and Williams is pretty damn good, but, you know, Jeffrey is, he's up there with all of them.

29:23Robert Saleh:I'm really excited for him and his opportunity and really excited for us to get our hands on him and cut him loose and see him operate in our system.

29:32Rich Eisen:Yeah, last thing for you here, I had Kyle Van Noy on the show last week. You're a perfect person to ask about this. He thinks defensive tackle is now becoming more of an elite position than edge rushers because the edge rushers, because the quarterbacks get the ball so fast and offenses are getting faster like that, that getting the pressure up the middle is now the new edge position.

29:56Robert Saleh:Would you agree with that? You know what? Anywhere you can generate pressure, but offenses have gotten very, very good with regards to protection. They know exactly where to slide, who to chip. they're making they're they're finding ways to get four hands on at least three of your players and most of the time it's two edge rushers and one of the interior guys so most of the time it's one of your inside guys that is going to get the one-on-one and uh so yeah you're you've if you have a guy like a jeffrey simmons you've got a chance to win more one-on-ones you're going to force the slide and uh you can force protection to go away the way that you want so you can kind of manipulate it the way you need to but uh so yeah it's i i guess i mean miles garrett i think would have something to say right well miles can also wind up lining up there anyway right miles can go anywhere but right sure but um the edge rusher is always going to be uh the the high sack guy but to be able to get that pocket push especially uh with these young men when like you said the ball's getting out pretty quick um the fastest way to get pressure into his lap to make them flinch is through the middle of the defense.

31:06Robert Saleh:And if you can do that, it's always beneficial. Yeah, and those are the first guys that are out there on the field on Thursday.

31:12Rich Eisen:Congrats on getting a well-deserved second crack at this, Matt. Appreciate you. I'm very excited for you. And thanks again on behalf of all of us follically challenged people to do what you've done to put this staff together. I can't get enough of it. And just to show you I'm all about it as well, you know, Omar Khan was sitting there before were you and brad holmes is coming here next nobody another bald with hair is allowed to appear on this show in this hour you know what i mean i'm all about it man i appreciate you brother good to see you that's robert zala the head coach of the tennessee titans when we come back brad holmes the man who shops for the detroit groceries here in indianapolis awesome the rich eisen show the podcast

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33:13Rich Eisen:Executive Vice President and General Manager of the Detroit Lions, Brad Holmes, is here. Our radio audience has returned. The conversation surrounding Jeremiah Love out of Notre Dame and where he should get drafted and how high he should be drafted, I think, based on the conversations that I have, are 100 % seen through the prism of you and your team selecting Jameer Gibbs a couple years ago.

33:40Brad Holmes:Yeah.

33:40Rich Eisen:And a lot of people saying, why are they doing it? It's a reach. It's too high. It's a running back spot. And then now a few years later, it's like, oh, yeah, now we get it. Yeah. What went into the—what was that process behind drafting Jameer Gibbs? And by the way, beating a lot of other teams to the punch behind the scenes.

34:02Brad Holmes:I mean, really, it's just looking at the, we didn't really look at it as just like he plays running back or a certain position. We just looked at the player in general. And so when we looked at it, we're like, okay, his just overall ability as a football player in comparison to all the other players in the draft was just so high that it just was pretty obvious. It's just like, well, he's an elite football player. It's not about what position that he played. And, you know, I unfortunately had the luxury of kind of going through something very similar back with the Rams with Todd Gurley. Right. It's just that he was coming off an injury.

34:42Brad Holmes:Well, that was a knee thing with him. That was the issue with him. Yeah, he was coming off an injury, but it was just like, look, he's so good. Right. Like, just in totality of the entire draft. So we kind of took the same approach with Jameer. So so I can if if someone if a team views love in that same scope, you know, if you have the conviction, you know, I don't think it matters where you picked them at.

35:09Rich Eisen:Right. I mean, the concept of a running back, you don't choose a running back that high. And I think love would definitely be drafted sooner than when you drafted Gibbs. it doesn't make any sense to me because the number of times that this player touches the football and can affect the score and can also potentially, if you get the right one, run the clock out for you. You know, like it's and I saw that not to cape for running backs here to a general manager, but I kind of do. and you're going to be in a position where you, Frito Maia, I'm not putting anything out there that people don't know, you might have a market-setting contract that you have to sign Jimmy or Gibbs to in the next couple weeks.

35:56Brad Holmes:Yeah, and I think it goes back to a little bit like what you just said. I think if you talk to any offensive coordinator or head coach, what do they want to do on offense? They don't run football. They'll score points, but they want to be able to run football. You can kind of control the game a little bit better. You can dictate a lot of different things if you have the ability to run the football. Well, you've been hearing that for decades now. What I didn't understand is, well, everybody wants to run the football, but you don't want to invest in a running back. And I understand the obvious of, well, he gets a lot of carries and a lot of hits and this and that, But when you can identify a special one, you know, especially that he's a game breaker, he can hit the home run.

36:45Brad Holmes:You know, I think it'd be hard to look past.

36:48Rich Eisen:And again, you know, I do cape for running backs because it is wide receivers get paid more than running backs at the top end and pretty much almost in every metric. It's much easier to hand the ball to somebody. you know what i'm saying like the defense can can stop the runner after the ball's been put in his belly sure but a defense can prevent you from getting the ball to a top-notch wide receiver yes that's the difference for me so why why is the running back market the way it is and again i ask you this with my follow-up about jameer gibbs needing a new contract yeah or being in

37:31Brad Holmes:Yeah, I think you got – I think it's a lot to that. Now, look, when I was with the Rams, we had Aaron Donald, and he was probably the only one that may be able to stop the quarterback from handing the ball to the running back. He could intercept that handoff. He's like, don't. But, no, I totally see it. But I think especially when you get into the guys that can do both in terms of running and passing, you know, now I think you're kind of entering a territory where if he's able to not only take the handoff, but able to run routes and make things happen in the passing game. And then I think the other thing that's very probably undervalued maybe from the outside is the protection aspect.

38:27Brad Holmes:You know, because even if you have a running back that can make plays in the passing game in terms of catching and running routes, you know, when that guy's in the game and you don't know if he's going out on a route or not, he'll stay in and protect, step up in protection. That's even more of an added bonus. So once you start getting into that territory, which is not a lot of guys that can do that, then, you know, those guys earn their worth.

38:53Rich Eisen:So let me stop dancing around and ask you directly. Are you in a contract conversation with Jameer Gibbs right now?

39:00Brad Holmes:Look, not active right now. I know that we'll, you know, speak with his agent, you know, probably as early as this week, you know, and kind of see, you know, kind of what that timeline looks like. But Jameer Gibbs, he's one that he's a part of our nucleus. He's a he's a core piece on our football team. We want to keep him around for a long time. So we're already in alignment on that. We've got to figure out, you know, more dialogue is going to kind of get a better sense of what that timeline looks like.

39:32Rich Eisen:OK. And which position group are you eager to see that you think can help you guys? Certainly when you're on the clock in April.

39:40Brad Holmes:You know, look, I think we're in a position now where we have to really look at everything in terms of, you know, both sides of the ball. You know, you can never have enough depth. Rather, even if it's not starting front-level guys, you know, the way this league is going, you're going to be, unfortunately, attrition comes. You're going to start tapping into your depth. I've noticed that. Pretty early. I've noticed that certainly on the back end of your defense in the last couple years. Yeah. So, you know, so I just don't think there's a position that we really, so we're going to be looking at everything, at every single position.

40:19Brad Holmes:And I think that that's the beauty of it. And we've always kind of approached the draft from a best player available approach anyways. So I think that's even more relevant now.

40:31Rich Eisen:Well, even, you know, in terms of self-scouting, when you look at the, everyone's got injuries, right? an injury bug certainly hits some teams more than most your team i've lost track on the number of times you're down to a defensive back who is deep on your depth chart as a starter you know do you look at is do you chalk this up to bad luck or is there something going on that you're self-scouting

40:55Brad Holmes:in your organization to figure anything out yeah that's a good question and that's something that uh we're constantly trying to look at where we constantly are looking at and trying to figure out, okay, what is the solution? And, you know, yes, you want to say it's bad luck, it's bad luck, but if you feel like you keep having bad luck all the time, then you obviously, you're going to have to make sure that you're looking at every single thing that you're doing. And sometimes it is bad luck, sometimes it is luck, but it could be other variables that we just got to make sure that we're paying attention to and make sure that we're, that we are aware of because, look, player availability you know that attrition happens but you know those are key players that you know that they're part of us because they help us win games if they're not available you know it's a it can be

41:44Rich Eisen:a little hard sometimes can you let me in on the conversations internal conversations you have about analytics and going forward on fourth downs that you have with your head coach um you know

41:58Brad Holmes:So, you know, Dan, I will say Dan is, I've always felt he's an aggressive person by nature. He's not scared of anything, but I've always felt that he's very calculated as well. So I don't, you know, so I know that he looks at all of it. He looks at all the analytics and he looks at the management and the statistics and all the situations. So he's not just, you know, feel like when he decides, at least from our conversation, when he decides to actually go for it, you know, there is a reason. He feels game flow. He feels how the game is going. He feels the situation. And that's when he usually pulls the trigger on it.

42:42Rich Eisen:What do you say? Because I'm in the narrative business, Brett Holmes. What do you say to the narrative that the Lions window is closing and that the ceiling was halftime of the NFC championship game a couple of years ago? What do you say to that?

42:58Brad Holmes:You know, I would push back on that just because even with the dilemma that we're facing now is that we have a lot of young ascending players that are eligible for extensions. You know, even look back at this past season, you know, I want to say we had six Pro Bowl players and we had three all pro caliber players that weren't even available. That could have been more. So I think what we've done in the draft in terms of having these ascending young players, I do think that that's given us an opportunity to keep our window open. And then also our quarterback that, you know, I think he's in his prime.

43:52Brad Holmes:He's playing at a high level. So I think just those alone keeps that window open. but I understand the situations like yeah you get that close to making it to the big game and then you don't make it that close again okay the easy narrative is okay it's closing because you missed your shot but that's not what we believe we still believe that our windows open and really the way we operate is we want to avoid windows and so I like that look at that that's a good line we actually do the best that we can

44:28Rich Eisen:to avoid windows. Right. And, you know, Drew Petsing's now in here, right? You like the hire, clearly. You're the general manager here. Yeah. Is he going to bring something similar to what Lions fans are used to? Yeah.

44:44Brad Holmes:I mean, look, I think our fans are used to our offense scoring a lot of points and being explosive. And I think Drew Petsing, he checks all those boxes. Look, What was impressive about him is not only his intelligence, his command, his attention to detail, but his knowledge of every single component on the offensive side of the ball. So it's not just the formation that you design or the play that you design. It's understanding protections and understanding every minute detail of a running back track. He understands all that. So he just checked those boxes, and it was an exhaustive, long search that we did, very extensive search with a lot of great candidates.

45:31Brad Holmes:And he was one of the earlier ones that we had interviewed. Yeah. And so the mere fact that he kept staying afloat and we kept going back to him,

45:40Rich Eisen:I thought spoke volumes. Well, say hi to your coach for me. When I see him here, I'm going to – he does have a kid who goes to Michigan State, right? Doesn't he? Because he – Dan. Yeah. Yes, yes. Okay. Because he showed up to the Michigan State game dressed like he was Magic Johnson, you know, in 1979. Oh, I mean. It's okay. It's all right. I mean, you're not going to knock him for a supporting. No, no, no. I just want to make sure. No, if he's got, you know, that connection, I'm cool with it. So good to have you here, Brad. Thanks for the time. Thanks for having me. You got it. For small businesses, every hire counts, and so does your time.

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