Hour 2: Guest Host Tom Pelissero, NFL Insider Ian Rapoport

23:35Yeah, and it does seem like the interest from outside has come on defense for them, not on offense. Now, I did have a team ask about their offensive linemen, and I would be surprised if they traded an offensive lineman, maybe a backup, but I'd be surprised if they traded a starting offensive lineman, And even though those guys are talented, haven't played great, but are talented and probably would get some draft capital because like part of what you're going to try to do the next, you know, however many games is try to get the quarterback better. Right. I mean, this is a it should be a desirable job.

24:11I think Mike Borgonzi is a really good young GM who is learning on the job. I think Chad Brinker's trying to do a good job of building that building out as far as analytics and infrastructure and kind of catching that place up from, you know, essentially where it has been. You know, but to get Cam Ward playing better would certainly help that job's desirability. The other thing I think it does, like let's say they trade some guys, like let's say they trade, you know, Arden Key would be a good example of someone. and previous regime, you know, making some money, probably someone they could trade.

24:49Well, it's like if you're going to deal with a new staff coming in and having their own vision of players, you might as well give that group picks to build with. So, you know, certainly some trades would make sense for the Titans.

25:00Tom Pelissero:We were live on air on Monday when the Titans announced via press release on social media that they had fired Brian Callahan. Obviously, you know, you and I both know Callie. He's a great guy. You heard Chad Brinker talk about he's a good football coach, too. This just it wasn't working. They didn't want to do it this early. They just felt like something had to change right now to get the quarterback and the whole team showing more progress. But then the attention immediately turns to who is the next coach going to be? You certainly raised an interesting point here, which is the desirability of a job where there have been eight to ten major moves in the power structure on the football side in the past three years.

25:38Tom Pelissero:But it's still one of 32. Cam Ward's got a lot of fans within the NFL. If you are drawing up the perfect head coach to take over the Titans next season, what does it look like or who is it? So, first of all, I do think it's a desirable job, mostly because it is a job that's open, right? I mean, that's a very good thing. And if you're a young candidate or even an older candidate and there's a job that's open, it's good because you could get it. And we've seen jobs that are, you know, quote-unquote not great places like the Chicago Bears. And then Ben Johnson comes in, flips Caleb Williams around.

26:18They tighten up the room. They improve the offensive line. And the Bears are actually maybe kind of good. So, yes, I would say if you want to look at where to go, it doesn't seem like there's a Ben Johnson in this mix. It doesn't seem like there's a can't-miss candidate. A couple that have been mentioned to me, I would say Matt Nagy, who has a close relationship with Mike Borgonzi, the OC with the Chiefs. Former coach of the year, was a good coach with the Bears until he wasn't, and sort of has gone back around and sort of used that experience. I'd say he'd be a name to watch. That would be one.

26:59Arthur Smith, former OC in Tennessee, another former head coach, didn't have a quarterback in Atlanta, you know, but someone who's done it and I think was a good head coach in Canada and I think would be a good one. And then you have some other, like, really good coordinators, like the Joe Brady of the world. Lou Anarumo is another one, done a really nice job in Indy. I think the main thing for me is everyone's going to focus on who can fix this quarterback and who can get the quarterback playing well. There are plenty of examples of really strong defensive coaches who have turned places around because they just hired good coordinators to build infrastructure around them.

27:36Like, Dan Quinn is not a quarterback guru, but the commanders are doing just fine. Like, I would more focus on leading and, you know, who can get the room better as opposed to who's the sort of quarterback guru.

27:47Tom Pelissero:And they had that guy in Mike Vrabel, obviously, for a long time. There were various issues, a lot of them generated by Vrabel himself, that ended with him leaving Tennessee and now going to New England, who, by the way, they go into Tennessee this Sunday to face Mike McCoy in his interim coach debut. It is an interesting point, too, because there are not a lot of, just talking to people within the league, as I know you do, there aren't a lot of those clear, dialed-up, hot candidates. Joe Brady is probably the closest thing to a Ben Johnson, but Ben Johnson was the guy for three years. And then finally last year was the first time he was like, okay, I'm really going to do this.

28:25Tom Pelissero:He had a big offer from the Raiders. He ends up choosing the Bears. You also mentioned Dan Quinn. The biggest hire he had was Cliff Kingsbury, who only became available because things went sideways in his contract negotiated with the Raiders, as you remember, to be the offensive coordinator. Cliff is an interesting one. because if you think of where Cam Ward has had his success, going all the way back to Incarnate Word, he's running the air raid offense. It is a very similar type of a scheme to the one that Cliff Kingsbury runs. You could see him fitting in that town. I wouldn't rule that out.

28:57Tom Pelissero:I also wouldn't rule out if you want to get back to just, hey, we got to establish a core competency here. Mike McCarthy is a guy who has done it in multiple different places, had a relationship with Chad Brinker going back to Green Bay. It's just a matter of, you know, Hiring a 60-year-old coach isn't going to be for everyone. Some people want to hire the younger coach here. It's a really interesting thing to navigate, but in terms of who the hot candidates are going to be, it's a short list. And I also wonder, as much as we can speculate, Ian, about what happens in some of these places. Obviously, Miami has been talked about plenty through the course of this season.

29:31Tom Pelissero:That's another one. Whether or not the potential paucity of clear-cut head coaching candidates might make some of these owners go, you know what let's just give another year to somebody because we'll you know there's just not a guy who we are convinced is a clear upgrade yeah and you know i would say two years ago that kind of happened right was it two years ago when they're just like i think it ended up being four or five right yes yeah and then it's cyclical it averages seven per year but there's some years we have five and there's other years we got eight or nine ten yeah so uh the hot candidate's an interesting one for me, right?

30:09So like I would have said two weeks ago, Joe Brady definitely getting a job. And then, you know, the Bills struggle a little bit and it's like, okay, well now he's sort of not as hot. I don't know that any of that matters to be honest, because what we found is that hot candidates really sort of don't matter very much. I mean, Brian Callahan was hired by the Titans because the Panthers were trying to get him on a plane. I'm pretty sure to hire him, or at least to give him a really good look. And the Titans were like, we're just going to do this. We're We're just going to hire this guy. And that's how hot he was because two places were kind of fighting over him.

30:42Right?

30:42Tom Pelissero:And he was the first, I believe he was the first hire in that, first or second hire in that cycle. I'm pretty sure he was. So that's, now, that was the year that Burrow had the wrist, so I think they weren't in the playoffs. So he had kind of a jump on people there, if I remember the years correctly. But, like, Liam Cohn is an interesting one for me. I don't know how many people had Liam Cohn as a sort of hot candidate. turned out at the end he was hot for one team he ended up in dramatic fashion uh which we broke um getting hired by that team and has proved to be like a really good hire so like it's really just and like i would say dave canales who a lot of people doubted would be really good has like i don't know that the panthers are perfect but they're kind of playing some good football uh and maybe look like they could be a team that at least would push for the playoffs this year So maybe that was kind of a good hire, too.

31:37And so it's like the conventional wisdom doesn't always mean a ton, and the hot candidates sort of don't always work out. So the fact that the Titans have like two months to figure this out is probably a good thing.

31:48Tom Pelissero:Ian Rappaport, NFL Media Insider, is our guest Tom Pelissero in for Rich. The Leon Cohen thing, by the way, just on a quick aside, there's various reasons at times that we end up reporting something as spotted somewhere, spotted at the airport, spotted in the building. This was literally Liam Cohen was spotted in the Bucs building the same day or the day after he had agreed with the Bucs in principle, not signed anything, but they thought he was returning as the offensive coordinator. And then all of a sudden, I think it was 24 hours later, he is walking into the building and is seen by people.

32:26Tom Pelissero:And it was like, oh, I guess he's now the Jaguars head coach. That's the wackiness to the way that the process is set up. There's certainly, I think, fair criticism to some of the things in terms of how this manipulates, even if people are not doing it intentionally, the spirit of the Rooney rule, the way that things are supposed to operate. There are a lot of occasions where we have seen teams operate a certain way where you kind of go, they appear to know who their guy is and they're doing things a certain way here, but they've succeeded in slowing down. The league has the hiring cadence, but the way that these searches play out, it's just completely changed would you agree?

33:03Yeah and I think that's first of all CeeDee Lamb back at practice Brian Schottenheimer just announced we were talking about it earlier they said he was very involved in walkthrough 51 % yeah and well I mean about to play your rival making sure they know how involved he was in walkthrough and then he's going to practice we'll see maybe some gamesmanship here but anyway it's a good thing that he's back practicing Terpen also practicing so anyway I think with the coaching hires I don't know if it's good or bad but almost nobody goes into it being like well we'll see how this goes now sometimes you may have like a favorite and you decide during the process that that's not the guy you want or something happens to go against like I would have called two years ago Bill Belichick the favorite to get the Atlanta Falcons job I mean would you have agreed right I mean that seems

33:56Tom Pelissero:he met with Arthur Blank twice including once on his yacht and then went through the car wash in the facility. Every indication was this is extremely real. And then all of a sudden we took a hard left turn. In his case, it ended up in Chapel Hill. Which has not gone great. Well, we'll see how long that one actually ends up lasting here. You mentioned CeeDee Lamb and the Cowboys. Jerry Jones keeps saying, Ian, he keeps telling us, hey, we got the picks. I said it on the Insiders the day of the Micah Parsons trade. I said Jerry Jones has managed to make himself relevant no matter what they do or don't do by virtual getting an extra first round pick next year and all the questions that raises.

34:35Tom Pelissero:He has made them a centerpiece story in the NFL, even if this team isn't particularly good. Do you buy or sell? We will see the Cowboys make a trade to bring in a player prior to the trade deadline that's 20 days away. I do think that it is at least a little bit intentional to let everyone. I mean, yes, it's about the media and to make sure that this segment happens, make sure we talk about the Cowboys during this segment. But I do think some teams like themselves being out there because, like, let's say you have an edge, and I assume that's where it would be. Let's say you have, you know, Bradley Chubb.

35:11I don't know. Just pick a random edge. Arden Key, Kingsley Annabare from the Pack. Like, if you have an edge that you might trade, you're going to call the Cowboys. You know now you're going to call the Cowboys. So at least what Jerry Jones has guaranteed is that they get a look at – there he is right there.

35:26Tom Pelissero:That's the perfect Jerry Jones photo right there, by the way. That is a man who – he's talking about the Cowboys. They're 2-3-1, and we're talking about – are they going to make a splash move at the deadline, Ian? Yeah, and I don't even know that it would be a splash. I could see them bringing in someone. They love defensive tackles. They could use an edge. That would make sense. the only problem is is that as an organization like they have done some trades they sure they sure have done some trades i think last offseason they did a bunch of trades um they are a team that collects picks they they have drafted very well with the exception of mozzie smith and maybe a couple others but they have drafted very well so well that they keep having to pay their guys top dollar, which has sort of led to this mess to begin with.

36:14I could see them doing some trades, but I can't see them giving up a ton because they're not a team that likes to just go all in because there is no going all in in the NFL, right? I mean, it's you always sort of have to collect the picks and make sure that you're investing and investing in your future and all that. So I could see them doing something. I just don't know how I just don't know that they're going to say, all right, we got an extra one for Micah. We're just going to trade that for whoever.

36:40Tom Pelissero:I don't know. The all-in-or-not thing is also interesting as it pertains to what the Jaguars are doing right now. Because obviously James Gladstone and Liam Cohen were with Les Snead and the Rams. They saw the bleep-them picks, Les Snead. They also saw the, all right, now we, because we did that for a long time, we now need to get rid of all these older, expensive players and get a bunch of draft picks and then have one of the youngest roster and kind of start the process. And hit on all the picks. The Jaguars appear to be in bleep-them picks mode. They appear to be willing by virtue of giving up the next year's one to go get Travis Hunter by virtue of a really different deal, the Greg Newsom swap for Tyson Campbell, where they're going, we're going to get rid of the cost-controlled guy for the next several years who doesn't really fit for a guy on an expiring contract who we think does fit.

37:26Tom Pelissero:And I know this. I will say, James Gladstone has certainly been in contact with other GMs, basically letting him know, like, hey, whenever you're ready, you got any ideas? Like, I want to talk trade to me. He told me that in August. He was like, I can't believe nobody's trading yet. I'm like, it's August 7th, dude. Like, it'll get going. Don't worry. I would not be surprised at all if we see the Jaguars do something else before the deadline that makes us go, huh, they really are going in to win right now. Yeah, and I would say, you know, they have a couple areas of focus. I would say defensive line probably makes sense for them.

37:59So, you know, there are some defensive linemen who certainly have been in focus and discussed. I could see them adding there. But you're right. I mean, they got a quarterback, and I think Trevor is playing well enough now for them to say, like, all right, we don't need a number one pick for a quarterback. And my theory, and who really knows, but my theory has been if you have a quarterback, you don't need a number one pick. You can use that for whatever you want. Whereas while, like, the Cowboys, they traded Micah for a couple ones, I'm kind of like, all right, are they building up a stack of ones to go get a quarterback after Dak?

38:35Tom Pelissero:Like that was kind of my first thought when I found out about this trade. So I think if you're the Jaguars, you got, I mean, it's actually a pretty good team. You got a quarterback. You got all sorts of players at the skill spots. You have edge. You have some corners. Like you can use picks to load up because you kind of don't like need anything, right? There's nothing where you're like, all right, we have to have a one for this. So they actually have some picks to play with. And I would agree. Like they've made two trades so far. I could see at least one more before this all stops. You got my wheels spinning.

39:08Tom Pelissero:I think you got TJ smiling over there in the corner. Can't you wait right now, TJ, for the storyline in the offseason when Dak Prescott wins the NFL MVP, the Cowboys roar forward and make the playoffs, and then they trade up to take his replacement in April. The most Jerry Jones sequence of events humanly possible. That would be a very Cowboy sure man. That would be awesome. Your team in the headlines. That's how you do it. I mean, that's, I mean, you have been a staunch defender of the Falcons, and on Monday night at least for one night, it sure looks like that went great for Michael Penix. I am the world's cheerleader of the Falcons-Michael Penix move.

39:46Nobody besides me, more so than anyone, I think that was a great move, and I will stand by that. And the Cousins situation emphasizes that, And when this is a success, I will take all the credit. And when it's not, I'll pretend that it never happened.

40:03Tom Pelissero:Ian, great stuff. That is your MO. Absolutely. I appreciate the candor. Thank you very much for being here. I will see you tonight on the Insider, 7 p.m. Eastern time on NFL Network. Boy, I could see you. Every time the Cowboys came up, I just saw TJ straightening up a little bit in the chair. Well, it was interesting. He had a NBA Jam shirt on there. I was trying to see what he had on before he left. But yeah, that sounds great in theory, Tom. But is that really any of that going to happen with Jerry? Well, I mean, starting point is, does Dak keep playing at a level? We had Chase Daniel on yesterday and he was saying he's playing quarterback better than anyone in the league.

40:40Tom Pelissero:But you know, thinking about drafting the next quarterback, do they really do it with Dak playing like this? I don't think you can. Right. I mean, if the Falcons can give Kirk Cousins 100 million guaranteed and draft Michael Pennix six weeks later, moments after Kirk is waving a towel on the stage and getting all the Falcons fans excited. Yeah, I would say anything is possible. Still more to come here on the Rich Eisen Show.

41:07Tom Pelissero:The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast.

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42:58Tom Pelissero:We got the first mock draft. The first one. Yeah. First mock draft. Actually, that's probably not true. I bet there were some the day after, right? No, there's been a bunch. But the first one on ESPN that I've seen, Jordan Reed throughout his first mock draft that's out, first round. We had Mel's big board come out yesterday. Okay. Jordan's mock draft here. Just lay the quarterbacks on me. Yeah, let's talk QBs. There are four of them. Okay. Fernando Mendoza from Indiana. Dante Moore from Oregon. You got Lenora Sellers, South Carolina, and Ty Simpson from Alabama. Now, are you curious where our ESPN colleague has these quarterbacks slotted?

43:47Tom Pelissero:Who's taken whom? Granted, in a mock draft that's been a mock draft, meaning things like the Ravens are drafted at number two. Sure. Ravens, number two, taken an edge rusher from Miami, which I'm sure they have no chance of actually getting. And remember, last year at this time, no one was talking about Cam Ward as being the first overall pick. But right now, he's got Fernando Mendoza going number one to the Jets. Ooh. I mean, I believe it. Fernando Mendoza, going back to Cal, he had all the offers around the country of where he could transfer. He decided to go into the upstart Indiana program, which just last year, Curtis Rourke, if he didn't play the whole year with a torn ACL, would have been a much higher draft pick.

44:28Tom Pelissero:They run a pro-style offensively. Chandler Whitmer, right, is the offensive coordinator there, long-time NFL assistant coach. it makes total sense to me. The Jets, two years and$40 million for Justin Fields. I think$10 million guaranteed next year. That's a drop in the bucket. You could be the backup. You could cut him. They've got to play better as a team, obviously. Last week was Justin Fields' worst game, but Jets taking a quarterback at number one, not a shock at all. And that's why I kind of put Kirk Cignetti being in the NFL next year and overreaction Monday or Tuesday. I know. It has been noted.

45:01It has been noted. Cleveland taking a quarterback. Dante Moore another Oregon quarterback goes to the Browns you know that wasn't I have not seen

45:08Tom Pelissero:admittedly a ton of Dante Moore last week was not the best showing for him or the Oregon offense losing uh to Indiana played well at Penn State Cleveland's in a spot remember they got two first they got the Jaguars first round pick two and this is precisely why they want to see Dylan Gabriel they want to see Shadour Sanders did they luck into one not luck but third fifth round it's It's a lottery ticket. Did they happen to pull the right one? Right. That's what we'll find out. Yeah, Lenore Sellers, big guy coming into the season, talking about the South Carolina quarterback. Going number nine to the Raiders.

45:42Tom Pelissero:I mean, Geno Smith has, I believe, 18 or so guaranteed next year. It's been a bumpy ride so far. Played better last week. I was checking in because I wondered, could this have been the last hurrah for Geno Smith? I was told there's been no serious discussion of benching him. Again, played better, still threw a pick. but the Raiders big picture Tom Brady being hyper involved absolutely the Raiders are a potential quarterback team in 2026. Yeah and last one Ty Simpson the Alabama quarterback which no one was really talking about coming into the season he's played great so far now through six weeks into the college season going number 30 to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

46:18Tom Pelissero:Depending on what happens with Aaron Rodgers I mean they could if they run this thing off they're 4-1 they win 13 games and Aaron decides to come back Do you get one more year out of Aaron Rodgers?

46:55Tom Pelissero:supply. Visit stream.espn.com slash MLB TV for more information.