Hour 2: Jets ‘4 Downs’ Preview, plus ESPN NFL Writer Jeremy Fowler Talks NFL QB Rankings

16:23Rich Eisen:Zero. Jay, you want to think about it? Zero. Okay, you're getting my point. Okay. Honestly, you look at what the Jets have done, you know, in terms of building this roster up and the options that they would have and who wants to come and join, you know, this Jets team. And you see what they've built, you know, and who they gave away, right? We all understand that. But David Bailey's coming in. That's who they drafted first overall for them, obviously. They add Tavondre Sweat. Harrison Phillips is there, and Will McDonald is actually stuck around, right? They get Demario Davis back. Jamie and Sherwood.

17:09Rich Eisen:Don't forget, they added Minka Fitzpatrick as well. D 'Angelo Pons, who they drafted, that kid from Indiana is really friggin' good. And then on the offensive side of things, again, Indiana keeps coming up again. You know, this team drafted Omar Cooper, who had that incredible catch against Penn State. They have added a bunch of young kids. If they can somehow get Geno Smith to perform like Geno, who used to not write back, and Frank Reich can coordinate the offense, and the defense can step it up and get some turnovers and picks, you never know. And then it brings up fourth down because the defense is now in the hands of Aaron Glenn because Woody Johnson basically said, hey, you're taking it over.

18:00Rich Eisen:We're paying you. What am I paying you for? You are taking over the defense, which leads to fourth down. Fourth down. How patient will Woody be? That's the big question. because Aaron Glenn, if this defense does not do well, it's not like, well, the defensive coordinator, blah, blah, blah. It's now his team, his defense. He's going to be calling plays and being a head coach. Okay? And Mugi has made some nice moves, and he's got three firsts next year. And if Woody's getting squirrely, like, I don't like the moves he made last year in the draft. and I don't like the moves that he made in the offseason.

18:46Rich Eisen:Does he say, I've got a new coach and I got a new GM with three first-round picks and all these quarterbacks coming out of college? Or does he say, Mooji, you're the guy to choose this, but Aaron, we need an offensive-minded head coach here. Or he's just patient, knowing Aaron Glenn is a Jet from the beginning of his career, and he is a guy that is trying to put a culture in that locker room, and we're going to let him do it. And all these losses that we're racking up are not on his plate and not on Mooji's plate. It is just the way we have been conducting our business over and over and over again and let it build.

19:24Rich Eisen:Or will the Jets win enough games? And Woody's going to just be kicking back with his white hat in his ownership suite and going, okay, we're building. It really all depends on all the other downs that I've mentioned. And that's my four downs with Rich, brought to you by SoFi. Get your money right.

19:51Rich Eisen:I don't know what I've... There's not many scraps that I left on the table there. That covers it. Their schedule ain't easy either. You still in? What do you mean? What do you mean am I still in?

20:03Brockman:Are you still in? Jets fan, are you still in?

20:05Rich Eisen:I'm not trying to be funny. No, I know you're not. I mean, obviously, growing up as a Jet fan, but there's only so much nard kicking you can take, man. You're telling me. You know? And I'm a passionate Rams fan, as I've been told. Well, I mean. I'm allowed. By the way, I'm allowed. This guy's got 15 banners behind his head. Which is what I'm saying.

20:29Brockman:You take offense, and I'm getting crapped on all the time about the banners. I'm just asking you a question. You can have some banners. I haven't signed any papers. If that's what you're asking. Well, that's kind of where I was leading. I haven't signed him.

20:40Rich Eisen:I hate this team. Jets win total five and a half.

20:46It's fun.

20:47Rich Eisen:I do like what the general manager's done. I like the way that they drafted. Had a good draft. And they are set. If there are quarterbacks galore next year, they have. Boy, have they set themselves up. I rip. Well, they're going to have to tank for my nephew. They have set themselves up. But how many times are you going to draft all these kids and go, no, no, no, we're going to trade them away for more draft picks. No, this is the reset that's going to make it finally stick. A SoFi personal loan is here to help you achieve something once thought impossible, overcoming high-interest credit card debt.

21:19Rich Eisen:Walk the tightrope of your finances with one low fixed-rate monthly payment, no fees required, and as soon as the same-day funding. That's right. Pull off your own debt-defying stunt with a SoFi personal loan. Visit SoFi.com slash trick to learn more. Loans originated by SoFi Bank N.A. Member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891. Jeremy Fowler got a lot of people talking with his lists that he's putting out there about top quarterbacks in all the positions. Coming up next, we'll talk with Jeremy.

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22:57Rich Eisen:It screens candidates so you can focus on conversations with qualified talent. With Hiring Pro, you can hire with confidence and build the team you need. Join the 2.7 million small businesses using LinkedIn to hire. Get started by posting your job for free at linkedin.com slash eisen. Terms and conditions apply.

23:24Rich Eisen:The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. Fowler here on The Rich Eisen Show. Let's get to your lists that you have been conducting since the beginning of this month for every position up until the quarterback spot that you released on Monday that's got everyone really talking about your lists. uh how just before we jump into it the what the what's the pool of people the number of people that you spoke to and and the general sense of their ability to share Jeremy yeah Rich so I end up talking to in total about 80 people in the league about this uh at least 70 people submit ballots which is you know I send them a pool of players at a position I get back a top 10 and then and I ask them about it.

24:10So I compile the results. I create a composite ranking for each position. The process really starts at the combine when you see people in hallways and hotel lobbies. And I at least start to, like, pick brains of opinions on players at that point. And then after the draft, I get to work on the results, the voting, all that. And I go by position. I always start with quarterback because that gets the most results because, you know, everybody's eager to kind of vote on that position because it's easy and it's fun to talk about. So, yeah, it's an exhaustive process, but it's a fun way to get us through July

24:38Rich Eisen:for sure well and it's also you know it mirrors the mvp conversation not just because you know we all say in the nfl the mvp is the best quarterback award right and then the offensive player of the year is the best non-quarterback award and i know that's one way to to sort of parse it but it mirrors the mvp conversation as to what merits best um and and whether it's physical ability mental ability or results you know it is a result oriented business So why do you think Josh Allen wound up being one on your list, Jeremy? Well, Rich, the criteria I try to keep pretty simple is who's the best right now?

25:18This is not a career achievement award. If you were picking players, almost as if you were on a playground, who would be the top guy? And then I narrow the focus from there. Josh Allen is the top guy because I would say the fear factor is really thick. Like if you're a defensive coordinator, he's the guy you don't want to play and game plan against more than really anybody else right now and I would probably put Matthew Stafford and Joe Burrow right there as well I mean of course Mahomes but you know for his standards he's kind of had subpar production for the last few years which opened the door for Josh Allen to step through the bugaboo on Allen was the turnovers that's what held him back before he has curbed that for the most part the last two years of course he didn't in that Denver playoff game he kind of resorted back to his old ways but you live and die with his style of play for the most part because you're going to be living off at most games because he's going to be winning.

26:09And, you know, he didn't have the greatest supporting cast. You know, I had multiple coaches point out, like, hey, when you game plan for the Bills, you're not really game planning for the wide receivers all that much. James Cook's really good, but Josh Allen is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 on the scouting report, and he still beats you. So it's a situation where, like, fear is currency in the NFL. Who do you fear most?

26:28Rich Eisen:And he's the most feared right now. And then Mahomes is too. I know you say this is a right-now thing, right? right now he's rehabbing off of a knee injury coming off of an off your otherwise so do people just say he's Mahomes and we're just we can't get shaken off of that as to why you think he's he's two because obviously yeah I understand why he's two but I'm just giving you the leeway here yeah the game can't quit Patrick Mahomes he got the most first place votes 41 % of the first place votes in this, but he had more than usual voters who were taking him outside of the top three to five, more votes that were like seven out of the top 10 or nine, which was unusual for him.

27:12And he still gets the benefit of the doubt. He still is incredible. He still makes plays that only a few in the world can make. And people gave him the benefit of the doubt in cases because of the supporting cast. They feel like he just didn't have a running game the last two years. that receiving trio of Xavier Worthy and Rasheed Rice and Hollywood Brown didn't quite work out as consistently as they would have liked. Travis Kelsey's getting older, so he kind of had to make it work all on his own at times and still showed flashes of greatness. But if you look at how hot he was in regular seasons in the past, plus the playoff and Super Bowl wins, and you compare it to the last three years, it just hasn't been as consistent.

27:50And some coaches feel like, you know, he still would try to take unnecessary chances. We don't need interceptions that are unnecessary so it's really a combination of factors and now we sit here not truly knowing whether he's going to play week one although the Chiefs are leaning into it he's made rapid progress on his rehab from the ACL to PCL so he's going to try to put himself in position to play preseason games get cleared for contact and get on the field as soon as possible the Chiefs feel like he can do it and with Kenneth Walker in the running game they should be more balance this year which could actually accentuate his skill set a little bit more than the previous

28:25Rich Eisen:years yeah Kenneth Walker who cracked the top 10 on the running backs list that you put out on ESPN.com Jeremy Fowler here on the show a quote from an AFC offensive coach and this is fascinating as well when you're including Mahomes and Andy Reid in the mix here and others obviously but quote Matthew Stafford and Sean McVay is now the best quarterback coach duo in the league Was that a general consensus that you also found, Jeremy, do you think? I'm not sure if that exactly was a consensus, but it was mentioned multiple times. And it was mentioned to highlight how good Stafford's been, but also to kind of knock him a little bit.

29:03Like if there's one knock on Stafford, it's that he's got really clean conditions right now. He's got this elite play caller, Sean McVay. He's got two number one receivers, so they're hard to double team. Devontae Adams was terrific last year. You know, they make the offensive line and everything else work. You have weapons. Like the Rams are never worried about moving the ball for the most part. And Sean McVay, to his credit, went to that under center, more so work, three tight end sets, in part to protect Stafford, who had that back issue and has had some injuries. And then Stafford did the rest.

29:36But actually, I thought of several coaches that were like, it wasn't even close who was the best quarterback last year, not only just winning the MVP, but just playing the position, the mastery of it, the anticipation on the throws, just making these ridiculous throws all the time. That was all Stafford, and nobody else was a close second in that regard. So if he's 32 years old right now, he might be our number one quarterback. It's really an age thing, 38. But at one point I thought he was going to retire, maybe even over his contract. Now he's got all the guaranteed money. He's all set up. He's got the MVP.

30:07He's probably going to play another two to three years at least, it feels like right now.

30:11Rich Eisen:Well, why wouldn't you, right, if McVay is your play caller and Puka Nakua and Devontae Adams are your main receiving targets, and Kyron Williams and Blake Corum are your main running backs, and the offensive line is handled, and Miles Garrett shows up, and that might smoke Aaron Donald out of retirement, right? Right. I mean, the Rams are leaning into that one, too. You know, as last I've gathered, he has not made a firm decision yet. The working out of the facility was interesting, but I'm told he's done that off and on for the last few years. That's not necessarily a new thing. He's kept a really tight relationship with the Rams organization since he retired.

30:48So it kind of feels like the door has always been open. So we'll see. He is not dispelling the rumors whatsoever. You know, I've talked to some teams who wonder, like, is he going to be a midseason sniper and come in week 10 or week 12? And I'm not so sure. I mean, Les Snead told me recently, the GM there, that he's a Aaron Donald's a principled individual. If he's going to do it, he's got to be all the way in. He's got to know he's going to be his dominant self. So if he gets to that point, then I could see the trigger pulled and he's out there at some point, which would be ridiculous. I mean, when I was talking to people in the league for this very top 10 series, I mean, I had multiple people bring up like, hey, is this Aaron Donald thing really real?

31:26Like, is this going to be a thing where he's on the field with Myles Garrett? So we talk about the fear factor being thick. It would definitely be so in LA with that equation.

31:34Rich Eisen:No doubt about it. I mean, what would be ridiculous, again, is somebody who's been retired for as long as he is, and he doesn't really have to change his workout or eating habits to get ready for the NFL. Right. You know, like he's just, he's been doing it. He's microwaved, ready to go. Yeah, no doubt. No doubt. Joe Burrow was fourth on the list here. And his comments from just a few weeks ago during OTAs, talking about how he feels about this team offensively, similar to the way he felt going into his last year at LSU. and we all know he did have Jamar Chase on that team. Also had Justin Jefferson, his name too.

32:14Rich Eisen:And how he feels the same way right now. What do you make of Burrow's comments back in June and the Bengals' reality for this upcoming season, Jeremy? He's an honest guy. I think he's really just being honest. He likes the talent. The offensive line, I think, is big. That's stabilized. it's not a star-studded offensive line but they have been better so you put that with the weapons that they have and the two number one receivers on the outside tight ends they like now they got to run the ball better they didn't run the ball well last year but even on offense he can see that there's a comfort level like he can roll out the ball get in the huddle and he likes what he sees and who he's playing with and then defensively they still got to prove it I think he's probably partly speaking it into existence hey we're going to be better right we're going to be better but they were so bad that I think even if they're average middle of the road defensively they're going to be a playoff team and then Burrow and the offense can really do the rest in a lot of ways so you know he's a quarterback that's got to do his part he's got to be on the field the availability has been the issue that that's really the reason he's number four he would be higher if it wasn't for the injuries and you know we were doing shows yesterday and I was with Tim Hasselbeck and and he was adamant that Burrow did not belong at number four he should be further down the list because of the availability you just at the quarterback position especially you can't be out that much and be taken seriously in some regards so he needs to put together a 17 game season it's really a time that he's primed to do that well I mean he's been unavailable and obviously your availability is your best ability we've heard that phrase so many times Jeremy Fowler but if we're if we're talking about well injury prone he shouldn't be that high Chris I'll give you the floor on Justin Herbert because I can't give the pushback with similarly as you no doubt always like to do or can on Justin Herbert.

34:03Rich Eisen:I'll just give you the floor on that. I mean, I've said so much. No, no, but Jeremy might not have heard it, but go for it. I would like to know what he does better than Drake May to deserve to be higher. Let's just start at winning a playoff game, Jeremy. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, no, that is fair. He's at an inflection point in his career. There's no doubt. Like, he's got a lot of goodwill in the league. I think in part because of what he did those first couple years was just on fire and the skill set's enormous. I think that's part of it. It's sort of intoxicating, you know, when you talk to these people and they're ranking these quarterbacks like, man, if I would still take him if I'm picking a team.

34:37Mike McDaniel picked the Chargers in part because he was the best quarterback of all the O.C. jobs available. And the Chargers are banking on him, giving him some more layups, some easy plays to get easy first downs where he doesn't have to do everything. And look, the line was bad last year. It was really bad. Now, that's it. It's not all on him that they fell apart last year. It is somewhat on him. But I think if he doesn't get it done this year, show some sort of progress or maybe win a playoff game, that goodwill will start to fade. I do believe that. It's year seven. Feels like it's time.

35:10Now, some quarterbacks mature at different times. Matthew Stafford, we're looking at as a Super Bowl winner. He didn't win a lot in Detroit those early years either. Sometimes it takes time. But I'm still bullish on Justin Herbert, but he does have to show it. Drake May was better last year. There's no question. He was better in pretty much every metric. you know he led the league in qbr led the league in yards per attempt led the league in completion percentage second mdp like he i was surprised that drake may was number eight in this exercise i thought he would be more like five to seven because he's such a hot name too and he's got the demeanor and everybody likes him and they loved him pre-draft and everybody tried to trade for him couldn't get him new england's got their guy for the next 15 years all that you know it wasn't great in the playoffs though they won but he wasn't great so i guess that's one bugaboo you could find and people just want to see him do it again i think it's a experience thing two years in they want to see a little more consistency but you know herbert they a lot of voters and a lot of coaches especially knocked him for football maturity they feel like mastering the position all the nuances that go with playing quarterback well they feel like he's got a ways to go still

36:14Rich Eisen:even six years in the league so then what's the knock on jalen hurts the only mvp super bowl mvp that didn't crack your top 10? Jeremy. Yeah, that's a complicated one, Rich, I will say. You know, and he probably deserves to be higher. The league has a great deal of respect for Jalen Hurts and what he's done. He throws a beautiful deep ball. He is obviously well accomplished. He's obviously good in big games, and that's a big metric, right? Like, what is your quarterback going to do in the moments where you need to win in January, right? He's proven that on a Super Bowl stage. Intangibles, toughness, all those things.

36:49you know it's and people point that out but they they also point out that look when you're playing the quarterback position you're dropping back you got to be able to throw efficiently over the middle of the field and you got to be able to make decisions quickly as a passer as to when to get rid of the ball he has struggled with that and it's a passing offense that has ranked in the bottom third of the league the last two years the only other team with a top type quarterback a top quarterback that's in that range is Baltimore. This year, they were in the 20s, I believe. But the caveat there is you watch Lamar Jackson with two eyes and you know the otherworldly things he can do.

37:27Well, Jalen's not that kind of athlete. And people question if his running ability has diminished a little bit, you know, if he's not going to be, maybe it wasn't as explosive as a runner last year, or didn't, wasn't as willing of a runner or wasn't called form enough, whatever it is, but he needs to be more of a dual threat. And that wasn't shown as much last year so they're just they're just some questions 17 is is too too high i think he should be somewhere more in that 10 to 15 range but that's kind of the way it shook out he was not a factor at all in the voting of this exercise he got i think he was on 15 of the ballots no vote higher than nine uh or 10 so it's just one of those things where there's not a ton of buzz around jalen hurts league-wide right now wow that's disrespectful i'll just be straight up

38:11Rich Eisen:Or, Jeremy, I'm going to be straight up. The stuff that we don't know about in that locker room that the rest of the league might know about that nobody reports on because everything's kept in-house or we don't know. That's it right there. I mean, that's all of it right there. Last one for you. I kept Lamar for the end here. He's fifth. that the relationship with him and what Declan Doyle, the new offensive coordinator there, is going to bring. Can you give a general sense of what you think that's going to be this year, Jeremy? So Declan Doyle is, you know, from all that I've heard, really bright offensive mind, has good ideas, good communicator, all those things.

38:57You know, I think, I mean, it's a really cerebral, smart coaching staff between him and Jesse Minter. You know, I do believe they'll get the very best out of Lamar that they can. They have questions on the offense, though. Just even aside from Lamar, you know, center, they don't really have an established replacement for Tyler Linderbaum right now. They signed Danny Pinter in free agency, who's not a huge name. I think he can fill in, but I don't know if he's a long-term starter. Receiver, still questions. Do they go the retread route for like a Stephon Diggs? They've done that before. DeAndre Hopkins, Anquan Bolden, they've leaned into that before.

39:31do they get some help there but that's sort of a band-aid so you know the offense has questions how long can derrick henry do it you know so but i mean just the whole idea right the whole idea

39:41Rich Eisen:though uh has been the coordinator over the last few years with john harbaugh right even todd monken who did get a head job somewhere else uh and and despite the mvp seasons for lamar there just always seems to be i guess in some ways for ravens fans something missing or it's not nearly as exotic as it should be. I mean, the new OC comes from the Ben Johnson world. Is this what we should expect, like a Ben Johnson way of doing things married to Lamar Jackson? Jeremy? I could see it. I could see a little more under center. You know, Todd Munkin came from the college background. Some spread offense, air raid principles that you mix in with some under center work.

40:22I could see Declan Doyle leaning more into that Ben Johnson tree where you need to be under center some with some play action to keep the defense honest, a steady running game. I could certainly see that. I'm going to be at their training camp in August, and I'm eager to see it in person to kind of see how it develops. But they were pretty prolific. I mean, 2024, that offense was humming. Last year was a weird year. Lamar was in and out of the lineup with that hamstring. He's had some weird injuries over the year where it's like, will he, won't he, week to week? And the offense just didn't take off last year.

40:53And you had several options that weren't getting the ball a whole lot. So I think there was strain in the building. And as we saw at the end with John Harbaugh moving on, you know, there was something off last year. So I think new ideas, new head coaching influence, I think will be good for Lamar Jackson. And look, he might have a new contract by the time they start, which would be a nice win in his sales too. So a lot of factors for a two-time MVP, nearly three-time MVP, who should be kind of back to his form this year, I would say.

41:23Rich Eisen:And fifth on the list that Jeremy Fowler compiled, talking to league executive coaches and scouts. Thanks for the time, Jeremy. Appreciate it. We'll chat during training camp, brother. Thanks again. Anytime, Rich. Thanks, man. Right back at you. That's Jeremy Fowler of ESPN. We got to beat it because we spoke with him about a lot. We'll review that coming up.

42:09with for the snacks? Now we're talking. So grab a bag of Lay's and jump on the bandwagon. We're undefeated.

42:17Rich Eisen:Lay's, the official sponsor of the FIFA World Cup 2026. Rich Eisen here with some advice. If high interest credit card debt is grinding you down, it might be time to call an Audible with a SoFi personal loan. It consolidates your debt into one low monthly payment with no fees required. And with as soon as the same day funding, you can make the right play fast. Call and audible on your debt today at SoFi.com slash debt play. Loans originated by SoFi Bank N.A. Member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891. Fast funds terms apply at SoFi.com slash debt play.

43:03Rich Eisen:The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast. Getaway sales event and getaway with a deal so right it almost feels wrong. Right now you can get great deals on our most popular models, including our adventure-ready SUVs like the Hyundai Santa Fe or Santa Fe Hybrid and the Tucson or Tucson Hybrid. Plus there's our bold and stylish Elantra loaded with the latest tech or go all electric with the Ioniq 5 or Ioniq 9. So get down to your local Hyundai dealer and get away with a deal you'll love during the Hyundai Getaway Sales Event. Visit HyundaiUSA.com for details. All right, so we're talking Joe Burrow and the two of you guys start talking to each other, you know, because we've got a system where you can get in everyone's ears and just talk.

43:45Rich Eisen:Right, of course. What were you guys talking about? We were just discussing. Yeah, we were just talking about Joe. I actually had to interrupt myself talking to Jeremy Fallon, getting in both ears saying what's going on.

43:55Brockman:I thought you thought we were arguing about something. I don't know what you were talking about. No, we definitely were not. We're just talking about Joe Burrow.

44:00Rich Eisen:Talking about Joe Burrow. Really? Yeah, we're just talking about Joe Burrow. Can I guess what the conversation is? Sure. I would love to know. You have a problem with his ranking because he's injured too much, and you're like, he's Joe Burrow. It's not that simple. If it's more nuanced, we have time. Okay, well, I guess I'll just say it. I think, and I'm guilty of this too, I don't put Joe on any of the pressure lists or things like that. Why would you? Well, I was thinking about it. You know when a player wins a major in golf, they get a five-year exemption for all the other majors. And I think this is the last year of Joe Burrow's exemption for taking the Bengals to the Super Bowl.

44:46Brockman:Interesting. And I'm like, the goalpost we give quarterbacks is making it to the Super Bowl, obviously winning it, but getting there. This guy got there. Defense has traditionally been bad. Offensive line, not great. Yeah, he does get injured every now and then, but it's his fault because the line isn't good. I just feel like he passes the eye test. And if you had one game to win and Joe Burrow was your quarterback, would you feel confident about winning that game? Bingo, sir. Bingo.

45:12Rich Eisen:You just hit the – hold on a second. It's not a one-game season. You just hit the target. You just hit the target. First of all, why would you put him on any list about under pressure? The guy doesn't exude it at all, and it doesn't feel like it weighs on him if he feels it. I'm sure he's human. He will feel it. I get it. But he doesn't. Well, I'm saying I don't have money. Okay, great. All right. But I'm saying like, all right, Joe, it's been a while. I understand. And it's a full season slog and et cetera and so on and so forth. And he hasn't been able to answer the bell. Your best availability.

45:44Rich Eisen:Your best ability is availability. I totally understand. He's been dining out on that one Super Bowl for a few years. I don't know about dining out. The guy is outstanding. And if you want to win a football game and you have to choose somebody, and I know it's just one game season, but sometimes it comes down to that. Who do you want? I would absolutely put him on a list. If I wind up with him or if I choose him, I'm very happy. I'm not saying I wouldn't. Okay. That's why he's fourth on the list, because he is that freaking good. And when he came into the league, it's just like, I just remember when he comes in the league, you're going to draft him over to, oh, yeah, you are.

46:19Rich Eisen:And then, oh, gosh, everybody's comparing him to Tom Brady. Oh, yeah, you could see it. but the results have you to mirror that. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast.