Hour 2: NFL Insider Tom Pelissero, plus Basketball Hall of Famer Chris Webber

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20:48Rich Eisen:Ask for O 'Reilly Veriscan today. A free service exclusively at O 'Reilly Auto Parts. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. Tom Pelissero here on the Rich Eisenhower radio audience just returned talking about how all the tea gets spilled in Indianapolis because again like I'm trying to think what other spot has all the agents because they they they they meet with the union too right they always have an annual meeting with the players association so you know where they used to online now they used

21:22Tom Pelissero:to for for very many years but still if you have a free agent or a draft prospect right you're at

21:27Rich Eisen:the combine right so the agents are there union members are there coaches are there general managers are there and you know it it's also in a way a reunion um where everyone does get together and see one another as opposed to what other events because the draft everybody all the decision makers are in their 32 separate facilities this is one of the only events on the calendar where everybody's there and everybody's kind of relaxed too because there's you know we're far from having to make major decisions like a draft or wins and losses right which can the highs and lows of a season everybody's just hanging out and you know what here's what i heard that's what i heard this is what i know and and it's it's non-stop it's just a constant churn of it's part

22:15Tom Pelissero:of that same cycle of of information which is you know an agent may go in thinking that my market on this player is going to be one thing. And of course, the agents aren't allowed to speak to clubs that don't currently own the player's rights. But those conversations do occur. They might come out thinking the market's a lot stronger or a lot softer. They might get the idea, hey, I think that team might be moving on from player X because I've got player Y at the same position and they're showing interest in them. So there's a lot of those kind of trying to put together what all the pieces are. Agents would tell you in the last several years, you know, whether it is collusive as the agents would tell it or whether it's just a matter of good business.

22:51Tom Pelissero:They don't feel like they get as many hard numbers from teams at the Combine because teams in a lot of cases feel like, all right, if I meet with you on the Thursday at Combine week, you basically got 10, 12 days to shop that number around to everybody else and see if you can beat it. So there are different teams that approach it differently. I can tell you some teams are very hardcore, no tampering, and they simply won't do it. That's a pretty small number of teams. Other teams may be meeting with an agent about the player that's on their team. And then, by the way, just what's going on with this guy and that guy and that guy?

23:24Tom Pelissero:That's kind of the understood part of it. Tampering charges are fairly rare. It's just kind of accepted that there's some level of that that goes on at this event. And also, if we're talking about trades, if we're talking about potential cuts, restructures, all those conversations, they may have been occurring by phone in recent weeks. When you get to the combine, that's when it's kind of like, all right, where do we actually stand and what's going to take place over the next week here? Do we have a path forward?

23:50Rich Eisen:All right, Tom Pellicero. So what is the story that you're eager to get to Indianapolis to dig into or you think will be front and center that you need to dig into because you maybe haven't seen it? What do you think?

24:01Tom Pelissero:There are a bunch of them. I would start out with Max Crosby. And as much as Raiders fans don't want to hear that anything other than Max Crosby is going to be a Raider for life, there's an unresolved situation, as we discussed last week. There certainly are some fences that need to be mended with Max Crosby. They promoted Rob Leonard, who's very close with Max, as defensive line coach to defensive coordinator. But that was not in all of brands. That's because Rob Leonard had a bunch of different opportunities. He could have gone other places, could have gone to college, could have gone to other D.C.

24:36Tom Pelissero:opportunities. The existing regime, that was one of the coaches on staff that they really, really liked. So they told Clint Kubiak, you at least got to interview this guy to keep on staff. He so blew away Clint. Clint was like, let's just hire him as the coordinator. So that was not an A to B, we're hiring Rob Leonard because it's going to get Max Crosby back. It doesn't hurt because of the relationship between those guys, but Max has to decide exactly what he wants to do, and the Raiders have to decide what they want to do. Does it make sense having Max Crosby on the team and try to compete over these next couple of years?

25:06Tom Pelissero:Or do you feel like we're a few years away? Let's get maximum type of value in a trade, move on from him. I would certainly imagine that the Raiders and Crosby's agents are going to meet at the combine. Those conversations are going to be important as they figure out what the path is going to be moving forward. There are also a bunch of these situations involving quarterbacks. The Dolphins working through it right now with Tua Tunga-Vailoa. There's different options. All signs continue to point to Tua not being back in Miami, even though he's fully guaranteed$54 million, fully guaranteed. But is that a release?

25:39Tom Pelissero:Can they find a way to trade him? Kyler Murray, similar type of situation. He's due almost$40 million fully guaranteed this year. Another 20 in 2027 becomes guaranteed if he's on the roster within the first few days of the league year. Geno Smith also has an early vesting on his contract. All those guys have triggers in the first three to five days of the league year. So sometime before March 13th or March 15th, Rich, the teams have to make a decision. If they don't move on from those players, then even more money is going to become guaranteed. It makes sense. It's sort of a soft deadline for something to get done.

26:13Tom Pelissero:And then, you know, in terms of those tags, there's a few obvious names. George Pickens with the Cowboys. At this point, I would say it seems like that's headed toward him getting tagged. We'll see exactly what that means from here. Can they work out a deal over the next four months with George Pickens? Could they potentially look to tag and trade him? The Colts seem likely to use a franchise tag, although they'd like to get deals done with both Daniel Jones and Alec Pierce. I personally believe, based on all the conversations I've had, that Alec Pierce is one of those guys who, if he does not get tagged and gets the free agency, he's going to get the type of contract that people are going to go, holy crap, I can't believe he got that much money.

26:51Tom Pelissero:Because if Pickens is off the market, there's just not a lot of young, wide receivers who are going to have a strong market. With Daniel Jones, again, they'd like to get a deal done with him. But is that deal looking like the Sam Darnold deal from last year, which was three for$100.5 million? Is it something closer to what those top 10 type of guys make in the 50s? I have to imagine ultimately the logical number is it settles in the mid 40s. If they can't get there, then maybe they tag him. And it might not be the franchise tag, which is going to be about 47 million, could be the transition tag too.

27:25Tom Pelissero:So there's moving parts, but I would anticipate there's meetings between the Colts and Daniel Jones agents to see if they've got a path forward as well. We know this, Kirk Cousins is going to be released. It's going to happen March 11th or March 12th. He's going to become a free agent. So for all those quarterback-needy teams looking at a draft where there's not a lot of top-end type of talent, your options you're staring at are it's probably not Daniel Jones because he's likely going back to Indianapolis. Aaron Rodgers, if he plays, is probably doing that in Pittsburgh. Your options are going to come down to some combination of Tua, Kyler, Geno, Kirk Cousins, maybe Justin Fields, although he doesn't have a trigger in his contract, so the Jets can wait on that one as long as you want.

28:08Tom Pelissero:And then Malik Willis, who is going to have, I believe, multiple teams interested. That's going to drive a market price. He doesn't have the experience of some of those other guys, Russell Wilson, Joe Flacco, um Jimmy Garoppolo that are out there but you're tantalized by what Malik Willis has done in a small sample size and relief the past couple of years in Green Bay he factors along those other experienced quarterbacks um as a major chess piece as all these quarterback spots get filled

28:35Rich Eisen:yeah you're interested in him I know that I mean was what I'm saying you as collective not just you obviously uh as an information man you're definitely interested in his market because you know uh dolphins steelers i don't know what they're gonna rogers looms over this as well unless or i'll be honest with you i'm i'm a little surprised at how we're not sharpening him in for mike mccarthy's first quarterback in pittsburgh but this sounds like from everybody talking about it like this is happening that he's coming back he's going to be the week one starter for the steelers they'll figure out what they're going to do with with will howard you know i mean And that's what it sounds like.

29:18Rich Eisen:I don't know what the reality is, Tom.

29:20Tom Pelissero:Well, unlike a year ago when Aaron didn't make up his mind until right before OTAs in June, I anticipate, and based on my understanding, the communication has been everyone knows Aaron needs to make a decision sooner than later. And it probably comes right around that start of the league year, which is on March 11th. And so I know this, Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers have spoken a number of times. They've talked football. They've talked about what this would look like. But this is Aaron Rodgers. He's got to make his own decision. Only he knows what's going on in his life and in his head. He's going through his usual process where he's probably going to drop off the grid for a week or two here, really think things through.

29:59Tom Pelissero:He's certainly showing an interest. We went from, Rich, after the season. When Mike Tomlin steps down, it seemed like that was probably it. And Aaron was probably going to be done at that point. But I said it on this show right after that. if there was one coach that Aaron Rodgers would play for again, despite all the things that people had said and written about the relationship, it's Mike McCarthy. Those guys are still close. And think about this too, Rich, where Aaron walks in last year in June to an offense with Arthur Smith, a coach he doesn't know, a scheme that had some grounding and things Aaron was familiar with, including from Matt LaFleur, who had preceded Arthur Smith as the OC in Tennessee.

30:36Tom Pelissero:But this is Mike McCarthy. This is Aaron going back to his roots. Everything is foundation of how he plays quarterback. And if he's signing on in March and maybe is there for at least part of the spring and you know that he's the quarterback, some of those things that never seem to get resolved in terms of just the timing and the communication last year, maybe you've got more of an opportunity to go through the whole offseason to iron some of those things out. The Steelers, I would anticipate, know one way or another before the start of free agency. If they don't know by then, they're going to have to make other plans.

31:07Tom Pelissero:Will Howard certainly is a part of it, but I'm with you. I mean, the odds, as I said on Super Bowl Sunday, are rising that Aaron Rodgers comes back. I don't see it being anyplace else. If he's going to play, I believe it would be for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

31:18Rich Eisen:Is there another goat that we're waiting to hear from? Travis Kelsey. What are the Chiefs going to do? They just redid Mahomes' contract. What does this open up for them and their plans, and what are you hearing about, Travis?

31:32Tom Pelissero:Well, with Patrick Mahomes and his contract, this is the fourth year in a row that they've done it. that's how the contract was set up. Mahomes signed an unprecedented 10-year extension back, I think it was in 2020. So he was under contract for 12 years total. And the way they did it was every year, he had this massive, increasingly massive base salary. And what that allows them to do is every year, well, they just go to the Mahomes piggy bank. They convert the salary to a bonus. They prorate it into future years. They push those cap hits. Every dollar you spend hits the cap eventually. But if you structure a long-term contract like that, You're just rolling it into the future.

32:06Tom Pelissero:The cap's growing. You don't have that issue. So that right there got them$43 million in change back on the cap. They still have additional work to do, but that gets them closer, at least, to cap compliance as we go into 2026. In terms of Travis Kelsey, my understanding, and I think Ian said this on Super Bowl Sunday, is they have already been in contract talks. It seems like this is trending toward Travis coming back and playing for Kansas City, but nothing is done until it's done. Obviously, Travis has a lot going on in his life outside of football and decisions to make. But you watch him play last year.

32:38Tom Pelissero:You know, he may not have the howitzer anymore in terms of the top end speed that he did back in the day. But he's still a functional NFL tight end. And remember this, in an offseason where Patrick Mahomes, by virtue of having not just his ACL, but his LCL repaired as well, he's going to miss a substantial chunk of time, probably the entire season, maybe into training camp. If you also don't have Travis Kelsey back from a leadership perspective, from the offense functioning perspective, it's going to create some challenges. The fact that Kelsey also came out and said it's going to be great to see Eric Biennemi back in the building again seemed to be a tell.

33:12Tom Pelissero:Biennemi coming back as OC that Kelsey was planning to return. But once again, he's got to make decisions, and I fully anticipate those decisions are going to come in the next couple of weeks.

33:20Rich Eisen:Any sense about Mahomes' readiness for week one? I know it's really early, but he does seem to be walking around whenever we've seen him. What's the expectation level, to use your parlance here?

33:33Tom Pelissero:I'm not a doctor, but I would say LCL repair. And remember, he had the ACL and the LCL repaired the next day, which is unusual. LCLs often complicate and extend the timeline. I would never rule out a high-end athlete because I remember Adrian Peterson blowing out his knee in Washington. on, it was either Christmas Eve or Christmas Day in 2011 at the midst of a complete disaster of a season for the Vikings. He played week one the next year and ran for 2 ,000 yards. So put nothing past somebody like Patrick Mahomes. But ACL-LCL combos, those can take some time. I would fairly say we'll see on Patrick Mahomes.

34:12Tom Pelissero:I don't think that it is definite that he is going to play. I certainly don't think it's definite that he's not. But there will be real questions. I mean, it's Patrick Mahomes. It's maybe the greatest player of all time. you're not going to push him out there at 75%. They've got to see. They've got a great training staff there. But I would say real questions about not just is he playing, but how effective can he be right out of the gate in 2026.

34:33Rich Eisen:And the quarterback class that we're going to see next week, right now it appears to be Fernando Mendoza, Ty Simpson-ish. And then, right? Like that's basically, is that an assessment pre-combine of this quarterback class? and then we'll wait and see and see who can come to the fore, Tom?

34:53Tom Pelissero:I'd say that's very fair going into the pre-draft process. And listen, we've seen guys jump up the boards in the past. We've seen players who, whether it's in the meetings, the interviews, the pro days, the combine, really help themselves, which is why everyone will be tuning in live to your coverage on NFL Network from next Thursday through Sunday.

35:11Rich Eisen:It's our coverage, Tom. It's our coverage. Come on.

35:13Tom Pelissero:It's a lot more you than me. But yes, it's our coverage on NFL Network.

35:17Rich Eisen:Don't say that. I don't want to go Starbucks on you, Tom. I don't think we need to. It's all peace, love, and understanding. But no, I guess that's the question here is how the quarterback class of last year or the year before affects the way people view the new one. You know, like that's always in that case where three, four kids in 2024 turn out to be all right quite a bit. Right. One made the Super Bowl. Another one we need to see. We can't wait to see him come back because his season got washed out due to injury in Jaden Daniels. Caleb Williams. What a phenomenal breakout. Right. I think people are going into this combine feeling way differently about him than we did last year.

36:04Rich Eisen:Wondering what Ben Johnson was going to do, et cetera. Bo Nix is another one. And then there's J.J. McCarthy right there in your town and what the Vikings are going to do here with him. Let's, I guess, land there, if you will.

36:16Tom Pelissero:Well, if we go back to that draft and remember where we stood going into the process, it was pretty clear that you had at least five quarterbacks who were probably going to go in the first round between Caleb, Jaden, Drake May, Michael Panix, and J.J. McCarthy. Bo Nix was the one that people were talking about right is he a second round pick is he a first but I have always believed in the idea that hey if you think this guy can be your starting quarterback who cares don't get cute there were rumors the Broncos will trade down and they'll take him in the 20s they just went their five guys are gone we're gonna take our dude right here and then Spencer Rattler was the seventh quarterback in that draft and there were even people who liked him as kind of a developmental guy and even though he didn't hold the job because Tyler Shuck the second round pick last year takes over with the Saints you at least saw some some skill sets and traits that you understood it with Rattler going into this draft and I haven't done you know my deep dives like I will do prior to the start of the draft rich after teams get more familiarity and really dig in on these players but you hear it's it's one maybe two going into this that can be legit starter type guys obviously it's Fernando Mendoza who's already said he's not going to throw at the combine.

37:26Tom Pelissero:He will throw at his pro day. He frankly doesn't need to do anything. He could sit back and watch Indiana's pro day on TV if he wanted to, but he wants to be there for his guys and throw. He's going to, barring some act of God, he's going to go number one to the Raiders. With Ty Simpson, I mentioned this briefly last week, I believe at the end of the day he will go in the first because teams are going to see things on tape that look a lot like what they do in NFL schemes in terms of being under center, the play action game, turning your back to the line of scrimmage, which all those teams that run the quote-unquote Shannon McVay offense like to do in terms of their action passing game.

38:02Tom Pelissero:And in the first half of last season, before Simpson, he got sick. He had some type of like a gastritis issue. He lost a bunch of weight. He was maybe weighing like a buck 90 at the end of the season. He played pretty good football. And then they were just inundated. They didn't run the football well. He got the crap kicked out of him in the bowl game. Everybody saw that. But Ty is going to impress people through the course of this process. He's one of those guys who is going to, at every step of this process, you're going to hear, hey, Ty Simpson is helping himself. I still believe, not just that he goes in the first, I believe Ty Simpson most likely goes in the top half of the first round.

38:35Tom Pelissero:And remember, with four teams holding multiple first round picks, there are times that teams look at that and go, we've kind of got an extra one to play with here. We can get an instant impact from one and maybe a developmental starter from another because Simpson probably needs a year like a lot of young quarterbacks do. He'd be best served sitting back and in having that time. Does he get that time in LA with the Rams sitting behind Matthew Stafford? Does he get it in New York with the Jets depending how they ultimately decide to structure that quarterback room? Do the Browns go into that bucket again?

39:07Tom Pelissero:That would surprise me because they still want to find out exactly what they have in Shadour Sanders. There's a lot of different possibilities. But after Ty Simpson, again, this is early, Rich. We all know guys are going to help themselves. You'll be, you and DJ will be talking about some of those quarterbacks that look really good in the drills, impress people, and maybe they're going to rise up the board. But right now it's draw a line to that next group, which I would say Carson Beck is in that group. People want to get to know him as a person and kind of peel back some of the layers there.

39:36Tom Pelissero:Garrett Nussmeyer, you know, he was really impressive at the Senior Bowl, particularly in the game when the lights came on uh he stepped up he won the mvp of that game i watched him closely on the sideline not just you know the interactions when he was in the game but when he's out listening in on every play call um relaying him to teammates getting guys jacked up in an all-star game there's plenty of quarterbacks who just kind of i'm gonna go play my two series i'm gonna go sit and i'm done i don't need this i stayed healthy he was like engaged i mean it was like watching another assistant coach on the sideline those types of traits son of a coach that's gonna help Garrett Nussmeyer does that get him into the first round it seems farfetched going into the process but again that's why we go through all these additional steps and maybe there's a Tyler Shuck type of guy that didn't go in the first but I don't think anybody Rich would have had him prior to draft week last year being QB2 and then coming on and playing so well that we're not even talking about the Saints drafting a quarterback up high even coming out of the combine you know

40:29Rich Eisen:so you never know uh Tom I'll see you in Indy thanks pal sounds great Tom Palacero there he goes They're heading off to Indianapolis. And we're heading off to break. Let's take a break. Phone calls when we come back. 844-204-RICH. What's more likely? And the actress Kim Fields comes on out.

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42:54Rich Eisen:The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast. Back here on the Rich Eisen Show, the Hyundai Hope on Wheels program has been going on 27 years. Over 27 years, every Hyundai sold has helped fund life-saving pediatric cancer research. 850 dealers nationwide together. Awesome stuff. They've raised more than$277 million, supporting over 25 ,000 kids in their fight against cancer. Visit HyundaiUSA.com and search Hyundai Hope on Wheels to learn more. At Hyundai, hope isn't optional. It comes standard. our phone lines have been lit all day we appreciate it we love being on espn here it's awesome espn 2 uh is our our next spot for hour number three uh i believe we're we're on espn on monday and tuesday of next week pat returns to his usual time slot right here uh as we're both doing shows from the combine so uh we just love doing it and uh i look forward to seeing pat in indianapolis i'm sure we'll run into each other uh 844-204 which is the number to dial gabe in washington State is one of our resident callers from Seahawks country.

44:01Rich Eisen:What's up, Gabe? Hey, how you guys doing? What's going on, bud? What's up, man?

44:05Tom Pelissero:Hey, I'm just still basking in the glory. I've been preparing for the next season, the non-playing season, I should say. But anyways, a couple points that I wanted to talk about, ask about. This could fall under the category of what's more likely than you think, Rich. Something that teams could easily copycat from the Seahawks in the Super Bowl that everyone saw was kicking field goals versus going for it on fourth down.

44:34Rich Eisen:What a concept.

44:36Tom Pelissero:Yeah, I know, right? Take the points. Obviously, you've got to make the kick to get the points or whatever, but Jason Myers went five for five. Let's say that three of those field goals, they decided to go for a fourth down and they failed that conversion, and then Patriots probably have momentum going the other way on a short field. So, you know, so that could – I thought special teams was a huge difference for the Seahawks all season long, especially in the season.

45:01Rich Eisen:Yeah, I don't think people are going to copy that. I think everybody's going to keep going for it. I like it because, you know, they won't get better. But anyway,

45:11Tom Pelissero:Kenneth Walker, current free agent pending, right? Running back has always been my favorite position. the first player I ever knew of. My mom's main name is Smith. So when I was like six years old, I actually thought Emmitt Smith was my cousin. And he was the first football player I ever knew. I guess I was almost a Cowboys fan when I was a kid. But like Eddie George was the first jersey I ever had. Ricky Williams was an all-time favorite player. And then 2001, Sean Alexander ripped off 266 yards against the Tigers Sunday Night Football.

45:48Rich Eisen:And Gabe, we're up against the end of the hour. So let me just say thank you for the call. Appreciate it. And Kurt Warner, I mean, before that with the C, I mean, Seahawks have had great running backs. He just gave me something to think about. There's no chance the rest of the league goes, you know what? The Seahawks were the only team in the playoffs who didn't go for it on fourth down a single time. And they won the Super Bowl. So we should maybe start just kicking field goals and putting a defense out there and taking points and not going for it on fourth down. Yeah, no chance. They were the only team in the playoffs.

46:16Rich Eisen:and they got 13 points off of everybody else trying for it on fourth down and not making it. But I'm looking at the Super Bowl right now. As you know, Jason Meyer set a record for most field goals made in a Super Bowl. Yeah. The first half field goals to make it 9-0, they weren't even close to thinking about going for it. One was on fourth and seven. Another one was on fourth and 14. One was with 11 seconds to go in the half. They weren't going to go for it on fourth and three with 11 seconds to go in the half. Right. Then the field goal to start the third quarter for them was fourth and nine.

46:52Rich Eisen:They're not going for it. Right? So it's not like they were even tempted. Their other field goal was on fourth and four at the New England eight. I mean, but at this point, they're up 22-7. You know what I mean? I mean, they were up 19-7. They weren't going for it. But they also have a great defense. And by the way, I love that idea. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra. That's the OG. It kicked off this whole Zero Sugar Energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole line up now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian, Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy punch.

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