Hour 2:  NFL Insider Tom Pelissero, plus Chris Webber Talks Final Four & NBA

16:23Chris Webber:He's too busy. He's too busy stealing draft picks. You know, he's too busy stealing Luca from teams. He has bigger things to worry about.

16:33Rich Eisen:stealing Luca from teams. Yes. I made it. That's what he's doing. I was going to mention, so no Dugan Fife. Dugan Fife was the one I was going to say. You were going to go Dugan Fife? I was going to go Dugan Fife.

16:44Chris Webber:Well, we have our old chain, but I was talking to Freddie Hunter, who runs Detroit Pal, the other day. We're going to do something. Been texting and trying to find Bosco. So James Bosco hit me up. But, you know, he's an astronaut, so he's probably watching the moon.

17:00Rich Eisen:Yeah, the Artemis too. You know, yeah. That's what he's doing.

17:03Chris Webber:Right, exactly. You know what I mean? So, yeah, we all have our relationships. And it's really cool because, again, you know, it's fun. And we get the brunt of publicity. And, you know, we did a lot and we deserve it. However, you know, when we talk about banners or anything like that, it would be unfair to put a Fab Five on anything because we would not be us without Chip Armour and all the players that we play with Sam Mitchell and other players. And so, yeah, we have text chains with everyone else because at the end of the day, we are Michigan. But the Fab Five is a pretty funny text chain, and hopefully people can see that come to life this weekend.

17:43Chris Webber:You know what?

17:44Rich Eisen:But, Chris, it really is the dream of anybody fortunate enough to go to college and have experiences with friends and meeting friends and knowing friends. And I know you mentioned how you've known some of the Fab Five since, you know, teenage years prior to college. But everybody wants to go back to school at one point, one day. Just go back in time and live like you did and have fun times and connect and reconnect and keep that thing going. It's going to be a moment for the five of you at a Final Four, getting mic'd up, getting ready to sit down, looking around. There's the crowd, you know, the UConn and Illini fans are, you know, just saw that game.

18:27Rich Eisen:But you're about to sit down and do your job like this for Michigan, Arizona. It's going to be awesome. And you deserve it. You guys deserve it. You deserve it.

18:36Chris Webber:Thank you, brother. And, you know, it's funny. When Coach Harbaugh brought me back to Michigan to go to the football game, I didn't want to go to the team breakfast and everything else because I didn't want it to be a distraction. right because I knew if I were on the other side I'd be like oh he's here watch what we do and so we're gonna have fun and what's great is that we have a team that's already aligned and doing their thing and by us having a presence we're not taking away from them but actually saying how fun it is to honor this team and to come together for this team that we love that we believe in and we're excited for this team and yeah we're gonna get a lot of the limelight but it's gonna be cool support him.

19:18Chris Webber:So looking forward to it, brother. And definitely be texting you and be laughing the whole time.

19:23Rich Eisen:Richard Jefferson's jealous. Bibby's jealous. Who else? Gil, Arenas. Miles Simon. Yeah, we got him. There's only one all cast for this game. Chris, have a blast. We'll chat about it next week. Take care. Thanks. Appreciate you guys. That's the Hall of Famer, Chris Webber. There he goes. See you, buddy. the reason why i got into michigan or i started looking at michigan is because of the movie the big chill um which is again uh it's an older film um but it was about michigan graduates getting back together after the death of one of their friends by the way played by kevin costner who got cut out of the film he's only in the first scene in the coffin right you just see his wrist That's it.

20:10Rich Eisen:At any rate, there's tons of Motown music to it. It was written by Lawrence Kasdan, who went to Michigan. And it's all about college friends getting back together and realizing how they've grown apart, still trying to remember about why they were together to begin with. And it's a brilliant film. And Lawrence Kasdan spoke at my college graduation inside Chrysler Arena, as it was known at the time, which was the home of Michigan basketball, still is. And his speech was essentially, you know, hey, everybody, your college relationships that you have made are so important. You need to realize later in life, if it's for a wedding, it's for a bat mitzvah, a bar mitzvah, for a confirmation or whatever, make the time and go and reconnect.

20:58Rich Eisen:And it was a beautiful speech that really, you know, hit me hard. The only thing missing was the Motown soundtrack as he was delivering that speech. and he's been on this show and I've told him this because he's written a million other things and directed a million other things like every great Star Wars and Indiana Jones film. But he gave a message and I'm thinking about that right now. Yeah. That these guys, they got back together for a college friend when he was coaching and now they're all going to get back together. I'm going to have to peek in on this thing. Yeah, for sure. During the game.

21:33Rich Eisen:I mean, on a far smaller scale, So in about three weeks, I'm going to get to, I guess, personify that when we head to Pittsburgh and do the show. Yeah, for the draft, right? And thinking about just my personal story.

21:46Tom Pelissero:For us to be able to go to Pittsburgh, where I was born and raised in Altoona, but obviously I grew up in Pittsburgh. It's where I learned to become a man.

21:53Rich Eisen:I learned everything. My boys are still my boys. So when we go back there, man, that's going to hit me like a ton of bricks for us to be able to. Are they going to come by the set? I don't know if you want them at the set. They're a little too rowdy. That was a different message than I got on my graduation day from Rudy Gioianni. Which was? Wait a minute. He spoke at your graduation. At Syracuse? Yeah. Okay. For real. Let's take a break. Tom Pellicero next right here on The Rich Eisen Show. The Rich Eisen Show podcast.

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23:03Rich Eisen:No one likes having to choose. That's why with America's best lineup of hybrids from Hyundai, you get the best of both worlds. Like the reliable and efficient Tucson hybrid with America's best warranty or the stylish yet capable Santa Fe hybrid with the power to navigate the toughest terrain. It's like having your cake and eating it too, but you know, better. Hybrids from Hyundai. It's the best of both worlds. Visit HyundaiUSA.com or call 562-314-4603 for more details. Rich Eisen here. I've traveled all over for some of the biggest NFL moments you can imagine. Conference championships, Super Bowls, draft weekends, and everywhere I go, the city just feels different.

23:44Rich Eisen:It's buzzing, packed, electric. Now, take that energy and multiply it by the entire world. That's what's coming this summer with the FIFA World Cup. fans from every corner of the globe are going to be traveling to experience it live and when that many people come to town they're all looking for a place to stay that got me thinking if you live in or near a host city this is one of those rare moments you already have a space this summer you could list your space on airbnb while fans are in town for the fifa world cup not as a full-time thing not as some huge lifestyle change just during an event when demand is naturally high When I travel for big games, I just want a comfortable place in a real neighborhood.

24:26Rich Eisen:And that's exactly what so many visiting fans will be looking for. If you've ever thought about listing your space, this summer is a great time as we welcome FIFA World Cup fans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.

25:11Tom Pelissero:next angle it away from the mess that my children have created on this side. I think I did a pretty good job.

25:19Rich Eisen:By the way, awesome. It looks like you're already at Disney World, Tom. All right, let's get into it here. Where did Kirk Cousins to the Raiders come from, Tom?

25:31Tom Pelissero:The Raiders were pursuing Kirk Cousins ever since the Falcons released him. The issue that they had to work through was Kirk Cousins was due$10 million, fully guaranteed in 2026, even if he was sitting on the couch. He was not going to play in his mind for free, which means that he was going to need to make more than that$10 million if he was going to play somewhere. The Raiders and Cousins agent Mike McCartney came up with a pretty unique structure to work around that issue. And I know there's a lot of numbers that people have seen on social media. Let me break it down to you this way. There's really two ways this contract can go.

26:08Tom Pelissero:The most likely one is for Cousins. This is a one year,$20 million deal of which the Raiders are paying$11.3 million. The$10 million he was owed by the Falcons is subject to offsets. He took a minimum salary this year from the Raiders, so about$1.3 million, which leaves the rest on the Falcons books. But then to increase his compensation for 2026, they put a$10 million roster bonus on the third day of the league year in this coming March in 2027, which defers the cash and cap until March, but effectively means he makes$20 million to play this season. There is more to the contract, though. The other version of the deal is this potentially could be a three-year,$100 million deal.

26:50Tom Pelissero:Because if Cousins is still on the roster on the fifth day of the league year next March, then he is going to have an additional two years and$80 million in the 2027 and 2028 season become fully vested. It's basically a team option. And as much as it seems unlikely right now that they could pick that up, Rich, I would say this. Kirk Cousins had one of his best seasons playing with Clint Kubiak as his offensive coordinator in Minnesota. It's where Cousins won his first playoff game over the Saints. They were in the game the following week against the 49ers before they kind of ran out of gas. Cousins has played well in this system.

27:26Tom Pelissero:He's 37. He played a lot better once he got his opportunity last year that he had coming right off the Achilles back in his first season with the Falcons in 2024. So let's say, hypothetically, Cousins plays really well. Of course, the Raiders have the number one pick. We all expect them to draft Fernando Mendoza, but Kubiak has said himself a couple of days ago at the league meeting, in a perfect world, you'd like the rookie to come in and sit behind, this is Clint's words, a grown adult and see how he runs things before giving his opportunity. Let's say Kirk plays so well, they don't need to go to Mendoza at all in 2026.

28:00Tom Pelissero:There is a scenario here where Cousins plays really well, and all of a sudden now you've got a two-year$80 million deal or two for 90 prior to the third day of the league year that maybe could be tradable for the Raiders. They have an exclusive negotiating window to maybe try to work out a restructure. They also have the option of a take. He played really well, but it's Fernando's time. Let's move on from here. There is a scenario where they could trade Cousins. And oh, by the way, the other thing that I just learned about the way this deal is structured, that additional$80 million, almost all of it is in 2028.

28:33Tom Pelissero:He's on the books for a minimum salary again in 2027, of course, in addition to the$10 million roster bonus. So 78.5 or whatever is pushed out into 2028. It really gives the Raiders time here to figure out exactly how they would want to proceed. All this, presuming that Cousins comes in, plays really well. It does give some optionality really to both sides because if they don't pick up the option, which I would say is most likely, then Cousins is right back in the same spot, except this time with no offsets. And he's a free agent again next March.

29:01Rich Eisen:And obviously agents and front offices need to parse everything now to the final syllable for a contract. And of course, again, run the traps about how it could all work out in success in the long run, which is what you just laid out for us. And that all has to be figured out now. Get it. But let's not put the salary cap and the extra years cart before this horse, which is what happens in September. Remember, what has, based on your reporting or knowledge, Cousins been told about a week one possibility this year?

29:35Tom Pelissero:Tom, what has he been told? Everything that Kirk Cousins, from my understanding, was told behind the scenes. This was not a recent thing. This was going on for several weeks now. Match what Clint said during his breakfast with the media, which was, in a perfect world, you'd prefer that the rookie sits. Now, what does that look like through the course of the offseason? How does Cousins perform? How does Fernando Mendoza, who, by the way, is coming from a vastly different system where he hasn't really been under center, he hasn't had to turn his back to the line of scrimmage on play action, all those things that are fundamental to the system that Clint wants to run, does he accelerate quickly enough where it's like, hey, he's ready.

30:13Tom Pelissero:He's ready to go. What this does is this gives them a fallback option. And really, I would say it's more than that. The preference for Clint Kubiak is that he's not throwing Mendoza out there in week one. There's still things to go here in terms of the draft. There could be additional free agent moves. There could be trades. But if you look at the Raiders' office, yes, they have Ashton Gentry. They have Brock Bowers. Those are two really good pieces to build around. They went out and they got Tyler Linderbaum to play center on a deal that is almost identical to the three-year,$84 million deal that Cousins signed back in 2018, which was the massive deal that shocked everybody.

30:47Tom Pelissero:And now a center's getting that eight years later, which tells you how the salary cap has gone here. But if you look at the way that the Raiders are building this year, they know they've got more work to do at wide receiver. They got more work to do on the offensive line. Kirk coming in, in a way, is similar to Tyler Linderbaum coming in, which is let's build out as many ways as we can to protect the rookie quarterback. Again, it's possible. Mendoza comes out, lights it up in the preseason, and they just say, hey, we're going to go with Mendoza out of the gate. But unlike the other quarterbacks who, granted, will do more guaranteed money, Rich, guys like Tua and Kyler who went in on pure minimum deals, the Raiders are paying Cousins$11.3 million to play in 2026, regardless of whether or not he's on the field.

31:28Tom Pelissero:That means I don't envision Kirk Cousins getting cut. I don't envision him trading him this year. I would say standing here right now, and again, we are five months out from this, Rich, I would say the most likely scenario is Kirk Cousins is the Raiders quarterback in week one. his play and the progression of Fernando Mendoza will determine exactly how long that lasts.

31:49Rich Eisen:Tom Pellicero here on the Rich Eisen Show. And the other aspect of this that I was pointing out in the first hour, Tom, I want to hit you on is the Rodgers part of it. Was Cousins ever on the Steelers' radar screen, or are they just all, it's Rodgers, we're just waiting on his timing, and that timing is eventually going to result in him saying, yep, I'll play for the Steelers in 2026, Tom.

32:13Tom Pelissero:Kirk Cousins was on the Steelers' radar, just like he was on the Steelers' radar a year ago. They did call and check on his availability while waiting for Rodgers, which, remember, didn't resolve itself until June last year. They were checking on a bunch of different contingency plans. Cousins was one of them. The Falcons regime at the time just didn't really make Cousins available, but they certainly had a level of interest. And this time around, if Rodgers didn't come back, my understanding has been that Cousins was one of the possibilities that they could go out and pursue. You're talking about a really short list at this point of experienced veteran quarterbacks who are still available on the market.

32:52Tom Pelissero:You have Russell Wilson. The Steelers have already gone down that road. I don't foresee them doing it again. Jimmy Garoppolo, if he's on a team in 2026, I would think, especially with Cousins off the board, that it ends up being back to the Rams. You got Tyrod Taylor still out there, but I don't envision Tyrod at this stage in his career being a walk in the door day one starter. It's really Aaron Rodgers or the Steelers potentially are going to roll with Will Howard and Mason Rudolph and sign or draft another one to fill out the depth chart. Having said all that, Aaron Rodgers has not committed to the Steelers.

33:29Tom Pelissero:He has not given them a firm answer. I know that Mike McCarthy said at the breakfast for the AFC coaches that he talks to him every couple of days. All the indications, Rich, have not changed from what I've been told over the last two months, which is if I had to lean one way or another, I would lean toward Aaron Rodgers as the Steelers quarterback in 2026. But at what point does he actually tell them that? At what point, if at all, do the Steelers simply say, we're down the road? You know, all those missed reps in the spring last year weren't helpful. You know, when Rodgers was getting frustrated with some of his young receivers during the season, and it was, you know, hey, if you put in more time in the spring, maybe it wouldn't be that.

34:09Tom Pelissero:You know, maybe it would not be that way. They're voluntary even if he's under contract. But from a team-building perspective, even from a free agency perspective, knowing Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback might have made it easier for them to pursue some things in free agency. But they went out and got Rico Dowdle, who I know Mike McCarthy really likes and the fit for him in the backfield. They traded for Michael Pittman. They have made some moves. Obviously, DK Metcalf coming back. It's not as if Aaron Rodgers will be walking back into an empty cupboard. I know that Art Rooney said that he hoped to know before the draft what the decision is going to be from Rodgers.

34:41Tom Pelissero:That begins three weeks from today. I would expect sooner than later they're going to get an answer. And again, if I had to guess, if I had to lean one way or another, I would lean toward Rodgers returning. But this is Aaron Rodgers. Only he knows what he ultimately wants to do. I know he's out in California. He has been working and training and staying engaged with Steelers personnel, namely his old coach from Green Bay, Mike McCarthy. Those signs all point toward him playing, but he hasn't actually said if or when he's going to do that. And so once again, we await that news.

35:13Rich Eisen:The signing of Puka Nakua has certainly hit an interesting turn here, usually when you're about to try and hit it. Um, or he's, he's in a rehab facility in Malibu right now, Tom, what do you know about this and how it affects the Rams plans to, to pay him long-term?

35:33Tom Pelissero:Well, in the short term, the focus is on, of course, Huka working through the issues that he has. And this was not, I know that the news came out yesterday, but this was known by the Rams. This had been known frankly within the league for the past couple of months that there were some potential issues there that were going to have to be addressed. I think that as much as you don't judge anybody off videos and things like that, there were signs in terms of just behavior and decision-making that you could tell something had been a little bit off with Puka. In terms of his long-term future with the Rams, I don't get the sense that they were going to be in any rush regardless to get a contract extension done.

36:12Tom Pelissero:Unlike Jackson Smith and Jigba, Puka was not a first-round draft pick, so he's got one year left at a very low number, where Jackson Smith and Jigba had two years left of that fifth-year option being a pretty big number, the math and the way that you spread those numbers out is going to be a little bit different here. But I would also say, you know, a player going to rehab doesn't necessarily mean they're not going to come back and be better versions of themselves. We've seen Max Crosby do that for a long time. When he first went away to rehab, something he revealed years later, I mean, frankly, I knew about it.

36:46Tom Pelissero:Other people knew about it. These are private matters and guys are going through real life and death types of things at times. Brett Favre, once upon a time, went away to get treatment for a Vicodin addiction. There's all kinds of players. And so the sense that I get is the Rams love Puka. He's obviously a phenomenal football player. Whatever he might have been dealing with last season, it didn't stop him from being one of the best players in the entire NFL. The focus right now is get him back, give him the support he needs. I have no doubt if he comes back and plays well, that that monster contract is going to be there.

37:17Tom Pelissero:It's just not on the front burner right now. And again, I don't get the sense that this was really going to be something that was going to get done now regardless. I mean, it's the first week of April. JSN did his deal in March. There's not many deals that get done. Let's see where we are closer to the start of the regular season and see exactly how the Rams decided to handle this.

37:34Rich Eisen:Handful of minutes I have left, Tom. The story of the annual meeting was what?

37:40Tom Pelissero:I would say it's the standoff with officials, which has really accelerated from, oh, well, you know, The deal's coming up at the end of May, but they've always worked it out in the past to, if not a five-alarm fire right now, Rich, we've at least got some things aflame at this point, namely the flame throwing back and forth, namely from the NFL Referees Association and their executive director, Scott Green, who has not been shy about publicly, which he had not really in the past in his time leading the NFLRA, taking public shots and laying things out there. You know, the dispute, it's multilayered.

38:16Tom Pelissero:There is a financial component to it. And that is the argument that Scott Green made in his most recent public statement. And it certainly has been made in the negotiations, which is just you guys are all making a lot of money. We deserve a larger chunk of that money. They're offering the NFL is offering the largest year over year salary increases that they've ever offered. It's in the five to six percent range. The NFL RA wants 10%. They also want$2.5 million for marketing rights that the NFL essentially would say, we'll just give you the rights. They're not worth anything. Nobody's putting a referee on a Wheaties box.

38:51Tom Pelissero:You can have the rights. They're not of actual value here. So that's one part of it. The second part of it is a resistance from the official side to anything that would resemble substantive change to how they are evaluated and how they are compensated. The NFL's pushes, it's a lot of things that we all as media, as fans, as people around the game can say are common sense, which is extending the probation period as you're coming into the league, subjecting underperforming officials to additional work, including having to work UFL games in the spring if you are one of the very small percentage of officials that falls below the line.

39:29Tom Pelissero:It is rewarding performance for playoff assignments rather than seniority like it is right now. If you're a first-year official, you're not allowed to work in the Super Bowl right now. The NFL would say, well, we're not going to ban a rookie quarterback from going and playing in the Super Bowl. Why would we ban a first-year official So if he's the best for the job, so there's resistance on a lot of those things. And for anybody familiar with, you know, municipal unions, what are they what do they protect? It's wages, it's working conditions, it's benefits and it's job security. This is not a traditional municipal union, but they are, you know, on a fundamental level addressing all those things.

40:07Tom Pelissero:They want to maintain the status quo. Just me talking. I would certainly say there is something to be said for if you're one of the 90 plus percentage of the officials who are above the line. you probably don't like the other 10 % of the officials who are falling below the line and giving everybody a bad name. So if the financials got to a certain place, Rich, I think that the union potentially would be more meldable to some of these other things that the NFL is asking. Right now, though, it feels like they're nowhere. And the NFL is already, based upon people I talked to at the league meeting, setting in motion some of those things.

40:40Tom Pelissero:They're more than a warning shot. They're also a direct, here's what our plan is going to be, and we are going to reach a point of no return. That includes they're going to start hiring replacement officials on a contingent basis as soon as next month in advance of the deal expiring. These are Division I, Division II, Division III college officials. By hiring them in May instead of waiting like they did back in 2012 with the fail Mary and all the other things that people remember, this will give them June and July to put those officials through a battery of training. They will then send them to training camps to get the maximum number of live reps possible throughout the course of training camp so they're best prepared for September.

41:17Tom Pelissero:But on top of that, you had two rule changes that were approved at the NFL annual meeting. One of them was a permanent rule change, which is subtle but significant, that allows the league office starting this year to weigh in on non-football offenses or things that would be ejectable. You know, helmet hits, swing a helmet, hit somebody, DK Metcalf going after a fan. This would allow, even if there's not a flag on the field, for the NFL to not only say you're out of the game, but also we're putting a flag on the field. That's the first time that's happened. And that opens up a can of worms in terms of the potential expansion in years to come.

41:54Tom Pelissero:The second one is on a one-year basis that would grant the league office the power to overrule anything that is clear and obvious. and clear and obvious has been a tricky standard ironically enough we saw it in the pass interference thing back in 2019 but essentially they're saying we can get by with a lesser caliber a less experienced caliber of officials because if they screw up we're just going to fix it we're just going to weigh in and fix everything that also rich is going to be hard to come back from if we go to an environment where the nfl is able to fix anything i know for a fact there are coaches who brought this up at the meeting.

42:31Tom Pelissero:If we're willing to do this on a one-year basis with replacement officials, why wouldn't we do this with the regular officials? Part of that is because those things are collectively bargained. But just imagine if we get even a taste of the full-on big brother and somebody at 345 Park putting down flags for pass interference, overruling an official, what he just called on the field. We are into a completely different territory that the competition committee has not gone, wanted to go to in the past, substituting one person's judgment for another, but it does open up the door to a lot of different possibilities that would fundamentally change how NFL officiating works.

43:06Rich Eisen:Tom, we got to run. Thanks for the time. Enjoy time with your fam. We'll chat again next week, brother.

43:11Tom Pelissero:Sounds good, Rich. Tommy P, everybody.

43:13Rich Eisen:Back on the Rich Eisen Show in just a moment. The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast.

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45:09Rich Eisen:Back on the Rich Eisen Show. No one likes having a choose, and this is why, with America's best lineup of hybrids from Hyundai, you get the best of both worlds, like the reliable and efficient Tucson Hybrid, with America's best warranty or the stylish yet capable Santa Fe Hybrid, with the power to navigate the toughest terrain. It's like having your cake and eating it too, but, you know, better. Hybrids from Hyundai, it's the best of both worlds. Visit HyundaiUSA.com right now, or call this number, 562-314-4603, for more details. Ben in Columbia, Missouri has been hanging on since we said hello.

45:44Rich Eisen:What's up, Ben?

45:45Tom Pelissero:Ben. For taking my call. I was wondering who you think has the better agent. Kirk Cousins, Sam Bradford, or Chase Daniels, who I believe has the highest dollar per snap out there.

45:57Rich Eisen:Well, Chase Daniels paid very well as a backup. We know that. Sam Bradford was the last quarterback drafted under the previous collective bargaining agreement where you paid the first overall pick the most amount of money anybody's ever been paid in the history of the NFL and certainly of your team. So I'll go Kirk Cousins, 11 straight years. Thanks for the call, Ben, and thanks for hanging on. I'll go Kirk Cousins. Yeah, and just in terms of overall dollars, he will have now been paid more in his career than Tom Brady. Well, not just Tom Brady. It's so well done. I'm saying his boss. You know what I'd love to see?

46:31Rich Eisen:I'd love to see him compared to Major League Baseball pitchers since he's been drafted. paid fully guaranteed like a throw a thrower of the football paid like a pitcher of the baseball is there a is there a baseball comp off the top of your head brockman uh max scherzer 345 million and how much is cousin i think kirk's gonna get to 341 is the number i saw he's paid like max scherzer's been paid justin verlander the most pitcher 409 yeah the fact that an nfl player is in that neighborhood. That highly respectable neighborhood, to use the midnight run phrase. You know? It's a pretty respectable neighborhood.

47:10Rich Eisen:3.28. He's paid like a major league baseball pitcher. A world with no salary caps and everything's guaranteed. An NFL quarterback. It's nuts, man. So, yeah, I mean, that answers the question right there. You know, 100%. so that's why it's hard to feel sorry for Kirk Cousins in any situation he's doing alright no I understand that you know feel sorry for him he's done really well in his career it's just he hasn't had the results that somebody paid like that which is like just get to a Super Bowl you know Wilson Bethel the man who plays Bullseye in Daredevil Born Again The Rich Eisen Show Podcast From 30 for 30 Podcasts.

48:28Chris Webber:Listen now.