Hour 2: ‘Overreaction Tuesday,’ plus the Athletic’s Sam Amick Talks NBA Off-Court Intrigue

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0:56Rich Eisen:This is The Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody. Can't get enough of The Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck. You can find us everywhere. Watch us weekdays on Disney Plus from noon to 3 Eastern. Miss the show? We've got a podcast so you can listen anytime. But here's the best part. Our YouTube channel. Subscribe at youtube.com slash Rich Eisen Show and you'll never miss a moment. Now, on with the show. I know you're going to dig this. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Here we go again. Don with a three ball. That was perfect. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Dunks. Thunder by one. Ted Harmon.

1:40Rich Eisen:Don't be so mean. Earlier on the show. Panthers GM, Dan Morgan. Coming up. Senior NBA writer for The Athletic, Sam Amick. NBC Sports NBA analyst, Jamal Crawford. And now, it's Rich Eisen. Hour number two of the Rich Eisen Show is on the air. Coming up in hour number three, just because we'll preview it for you, Jamal Crawford is going to join us. And we have a couple things in common, as you know. We both went to the University of Michigan. And my nickname is R-Crossover. Did you know that about me? I mean, I heard one of your buddies from poker call you that. Yeah, R-Crossover. They didn't know what they meant.

2:22Rich Eisen:Yeah. R-Crossover. I'll go in here, but I go there. Sick. They think I go here, I go there. That makes sense. Shifty like that. Our crossover. All right. 844-204-RICH is the number to die. We have not had this man in a while, but let's end that. Sam Amick of The Athletic, NBA writer, senior NBA writer, is joining us. How are you, Sam? Good to see you, Matt. How are you? I'm doing well, Rich. Great to be back with you. The senior just makes you feel like you've been doing it for a minute. Thanks for having me on, buddy. Oh, junior NBA writer. Where have we found you? Where are you right now? I am in the halls of the NBA draft combine out in Chicago.

3:04This is the Marriott Marquis. I took a brief respite from playoff basketball. And here we are trying to check out the young fellows and see about this celebrated draft class. What's the storyline of the combine, Sam? Well, the early story is that the senior national writer lops his wallet on the first night, so we're off to a green star. Oh, no. Oh, no. No way. So that's priority one. Okay. From there, I mean, honestly, as much as the draft guys are front and center, my interest, without question, is just trying to get a sense of the offseason activity. I mean, as you know, Rich, we're going to have a lot of chatter about some of the bigger name guys.

3:46You know, like Lakers season ending last night naturally means folks are going to be talking about what LeBron might do. You've got the Giannis situation that seems to be heating up. You know, and it's funny with the draft as a backdrop and the anti-tanking measures that are coming down the line, there is definitely a sense that all of a sudden, you know, trading and big time deals and blockbuster acquisitions are going to be an even bigger part of team building than before. And with that in mind, it's kind of, you know, you go into the summer wondering what might happen. Okay.

4:20Rich Eisen:All right. There's a lot there to unpack. Let's hit the LeBron stuff first because obviously he's such a unicorn, as we all know. But you also can't view his situation in a total vacuum with the Lakers also having Austin Reeves up and Rui Hachimura up and Jackson Hayes up, just to name three. You got two players, Marcus Smart and DeAndre Ayton, on player options. but what do you think LeBron's options are going to wind up being at the end of the day, Sam? I mean, here's what I feel confident saying, and it's interesting. It's really interesting in terms of the Lakers season. If you would have asked me in December how it was going and what his future might hold with the Lakers, it felt like they had unofficially divorced already.

5:04That changed, you know, what they did on the back end of the season. and specifically, you know, March where they go 15 and two and LeBron shows a willingness to be the third option, which he talked about last night. And, you know, it seems like it works and they have their own big three that has some, you know, optimism and promise. Then, you know, he's back in that alpha male role out of necessity when Luka and Austin go down. So the door is open for a Lakers return, but it's just a major question about the finances and making the numbers work. The Lakers want to have a balanced roster and want is not even a strong enough way of putting it.

5:44They need, they told Luka when he came to town that we will build a contending, balanced two-way roster around you, somewhat similar to the one that you took to the finals in Dallas a couple of years back. So that's where the LeBron and Austin situations get tricky because the price point might be the sort of thing that leads to a divorce. And then, of course, for LeBron, then you wonder, is he actually willing to move out of LA and do something in Cleveland or do something in Golden State? And so we'll have to wait and see. Okay.

6:17Rich Eisen:The timeline on it is what? I mean, obviously, July 1, we're talking free agency. The talking happens long before then. I would say the next week or so, you're going to have the annual LeBron chatting with his family. A, I don't know what percentage I would put on it, but the world does exist when he goes home to his wife and kids and says, I think I've played enough basketball. And I don't think that'll happen, but you've got to decide, do you want to play? Then you've got to decide, what does it look like with the Lakers? So, I mean, we'll probably get some clarity and a whole lot of chatter in late June, but we're still a ways away from, I think, knowing what he's going to do.

6:57Rich Eisen:Well, I asked last night about whether he planned to recruit James LeBron and Austin Reeves to re-sign with LA like he did with Marcus Smart last summer. Luka, quote, we'll see. Can't tell you nothing. So what's your general sense behind the scenes of how this all works out at the end of the day, Sam? Rich, here's the conundrum. And it's weird because I don't think, you know, sometimes you have personal dynamics with star players where you question whether or not they want to keep competing together. I don't see that. I don't hear that here. These guys like each other. I think there might've been a time when Luca was ready for the LeBron subplot, LeBron co-star experience to come to an end.

7:39But I think even he just kind of accepted A, that he's been a good teammate, B, that he's been a very good player. But the problem is that, and we reported this today in our obituary Lakers story, is that Luca has made it clear to the Lakers that he wants to play with Austin and that he would prefer that they don't swap him for another star player. Well, the reality is the only realistic pathway, even though Austin's up, I mean, looking at a signing trade, you know, like the idea of having Austin Reeves and LeBron and another star player, I mean, unless you have LeBron signing a minimum contract, which nobody expects him to do, then that math just doesn't math.

8:20And that's where the Austin experience might get interesting because he's coming off a very good year. I understand the playoffs were tough for him, but other executives during the course of the season had kind of projected that this could be a guy that is in the mid$30 million range, maybe all the way up to$40 million. That's just not the kind of money the Lakers can give him and have a balanced roster. So that's kind of the fork in the road they're looking at.

8:46Rich Eisen:All right, Sam Amick here on the Rich Eisen Show from The Athletic. the Giannis trade window is officially open or is this finally happening where he's ready for it Bucks are eager to do it um is this happening Sam is it on it's happening it's it's all these years later it's all the you know admittedly all the years of Bucks fans yelling at us media types and acting like there was nothing to see here and that we were you know creating this fiction um It was a slow burn. I know everybody's had Giannis exhaustion when it comes to the way this has gone down the past couple of years. The thing that is so different, Rich, right now, and that makes it very transparent, is that the Bucs are just shouting it in the streets.

9:34Jimmy Haslam, their owner, does an interview the other day on the day that they introduced Taylor Jenkins as their coach. And it just flat out says two very important things. One, we'll see if Giannis is on the team, just kind of acknowledging that elephant in the room. And then two, that he expects clarity before the draft, which is June 23rd. And so with that in mind, you're talking, you know, we're already in mid-May. You know, that's, again, part of being out here is for me to try to find out where are those conversations going. And it'll be so interesting because so far, Giannis is not putting his foot on the scale in terms of saying, these are the only three teams that I will play for.

10:15It's a bit of an open market. And the market, I think, is going to be really healthy. I wrote about this a couple of days ago. These playoffs have been very advantageous for the Bucs. If you look at all the different teams that had disappointing ends to their seasons, the vast majority of them who fell short of expectations are teams that could use a guy like Giannis. And so that helps the market. So their GM, John Horst, is going to have, I think, a bunch of options to choose from. But at some point, Giannis is going to look at that whole landscape and say, okay, that's nice, but these are the only ones that I'm going to think about signing an extension with.

10:51And so then it'll get limited, and we'll see where he lands. But yes, it is happening, and it's wide open. Do you want to take a shot on what the limited list looks like? Well, I mean, last time around at the trade deadline, we were talking Minnesota, Golden State, the Knicks, and Miami. Now, the Knicks didn't get involved. They felt good about their team at that time. The other three teams certainly got involved and remain interested. Now, Minnesota's in the middle of their push. Technically speaking, can't talk to the Bucs yet because their season hasn't ended. Golden State and Miami are absolutely going to be banging down that door.

11:27The Knicks one remains interesting because they look fantastic right now. But you got to remember the backdrop and the fact that in terms of teams that Giannis has actually showed a substantive interest in joining, that list so far has only been one team long and that was the Knicks. And this was last summer when there was a late summer discussion between the two teams that was prompted by kind of how he saw that the landscape, nothing actually transpired. But don't forget about that. If the Knicks fall short, that could get louder. From there, and to be careful and mindful of like the disconnect at times between what Giannis really wants and what people around the NBA say.

12:08You know, we are guilty a lot of times of speaking for guys and not getting it straight from them. But there is an idea that he would rather play in the East because we see what OKC and San Antonio are doing right now. And that's pretty challenging. You know, and so that if that is the case, that would cut out a lot of the market and you kind of go from there. Okay.

12:29Rich Eisen:Sam Amick here on the Rich Eisen Show. Who else is going to be hitting it? obviously LeBron and Giannis would be enough, but what's, I guess, lower on the marquee that's coming up this summer? I mean, it's part of it is that like, we don't know what we don't know. Cause I'll go back to that drafting where, and somebody put this idea in my head the other day. And I thought it was so interesting that like, they were basically saying, trust me, you know, it's about to get really wild because if you think you have no optimism or hope to go down the tanking road next year to get some of these game changing players, then you have no choice than to try to get ahead of that train and make a push for certain guys right now.

13:11So the Cleveland situation still unfolding, you know, to their credit, they're fighting against the Pistons and even this thing up. But, you know, if they fall flat in this round, if Donovan Mitchell continues to not be able to get to the conference finals and James Harden and that, that's, you know, alleged solution didn't pay off the way they had hoped. Donovan, you know, he's got an extension this summer that he's got to make a decision on. Kind of an identical situation to Giannis in that regard, just not necessarily the acrimony between the two parties. You know, Kawhi Leonard is another name that comes to mind that the Clippers get that lottery ball luck the other day and land the number five pick.

13:50How does that change how they see, you know, the more kind of veteran star on their roster? And Kawhi, to some degree, was already in play back at the trade deadline. It's been reported that the Warriors were kicking the tires on that. So, again, it's all about avenues for these teams to catch up to the elite, and there's only so many ways to do it.

14:11Rich Eisen:Well, I'm loathe to follow up here in this way, but I'll do it anyway, Sam, because the new anti-tanking way of handling the lottery was so difficult for fans to take in. I mean, the relegation zone was my favorite part of it, where the top three now have, for the first time in North American sports, the teams with the worst records do not have the best chance of getting the first few picks in any draft. but best you can explain it why are these anti-tanking rules now in the first few weeks of being introduced and consumed by front offices going to wind up with blockbuster trades as the result which i'm sure the league would love to have like making the summer more exciting and the season more more competitive that's that's a win those are wins no they that is it's funny you it's funny you mentioned that's always been this misnomer about the rumor mill is that people assume incorrectly that the nba doesn't love the nba loves it and so yes you're dead on about how they would react to a summer of fireworks but how it works is you have a three two one lottery ball system and you've already broken down pretty well the bottom three teams uh you know the the tanking teams so to speak or just the worst teams have the same chances of getting the number one pick as the nine and 10 seeds, you know, and that tells you all you need to know.

15:36So the irony is that, man, they went out with a bang with this current system. When you got Washington and Utah and Memphis, you know, coming up big lottery wise and getting rewarded for the tanking that they did, that's exactly what the league is trying to avoid. And so it's just about controllables, not to sound like, you know, a boardroom executive, But, you know, you took a major controllable off the table in implementing this anti-tanking approach. And considering the free agency, you know, draft and trades are the only three ways to build a team, taking one third of those options conceivably off the table as far as being to some degree under your control is going to change the way front offices move.

16:19And so they're going to find new ways to try to, you know, control their own fate.

16:24Rich Eisen:what is Sam Presti doing that other teams can't other franchises can't I mean baby I mean the NFL is a copycat league and one team does well everybody wants to go and do the same thing but I mean I'm I'm watching you know AJ Mitchell and I'm watching you know McCain fresh off of the Sixers and I'm watching you know two different Jalen Williams when they're healthy and I'm watching uh hartenstein uh you know alex caruso these are not names that you would just off with all due respect say that's a championship roster but it sure as heck is so what why is it difficult to copycat what is what is presti doing sam it's honestly it's it's hard to describe it's hard to put your finger on it's one of the most impressive things i've seen in 20 years covering the league and I've known Sam a long time.

17:18And if you would have told me a couple of years ago in the post Kevin Durant, post Russell Westbrook time that he would find a way to pivot like this, I admittedly wouldn't have thought there was a chance in hell because to some degree, you felt like the first origin story of the Thunder drafting those future Hall of Famers and Kevin, Russ and James Harden, there was an element of luck involved and there's no way he could do it twice. So, you know, they do the trade with the Clippers, where at the time there was some discussion about Shea Gilchrist-Alexander being a good young player. But by and large, if you go back and look at the receipts in the media, people celebrated the Clippers for getting Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.

18:01They did not celebrate OKC. It's just insane that they then obviously turned that trade into Shea, into Chet Holmgren. But it's not just a matter of that trade. They have continued from a talent evaluation standpoint to knock it out of the park. I mean, A.J. Mitchell in the second round, I mean, they've got guys on the bench. Aaron Wiggins not even getting time that contributed big time to their title last year. It is a testament to the way they operate. And it also cuts into the narrative that the NBA is obviously a big city league and one where the small market teams can't compete. I mean, they are out there in the middle of nowhere.

18:40I was just there last week getting reminded of what it's like on the dusty plains. And they have happy players who are fantastic players in a good environment and a good culture for those players. And they're just doing laps around the rest of the league right now. What is Dagnote doing? What is he up to? I mean, I think that speaks to, again, it starts with Sam and the fact that if you go back and look at the way Mark was elevated within their program, He coaches their G League team at first, you know, for a couple of years, but he also is a mentee of Billy Donovan from the Florida days. And I mean, it's a developmental system for the coach.

19:22It's funny, Rich, as a quick aside, you know, you're familiar with the annual anonymous player poll that we do at our place. We have our last edition coming out tomorrow. And there was a question asked that was asking 161 players, where do smart teams invest money outside of player contracts? Which is, you know, I thought a good question. And out of all those answers, it jumped out at me that literally one player out of 161 said the coach. And it just showed you like that they don't, players, you know, don't truly understand the impact of the coach. Sam Presti does. And he found a guy that he thought had potential and he groomed him and it's worked out well.

20:07I mean, you know, we could go on and on. Mark's got a great way about him with his group. He's a humble guy. He doesn't want to be in the spotlight. I did an interview with him once. It was a one-on-one and he didn't know the interview was going to be featured with just him. And he wasn't real thrilled with that because he makes a point to let his players be the ones out front and you know again that's kind of part of the the whole operation they're running out there so he was flopping in the interview so what you're saying sam so he was the interview was he was his fault he was so good that i was like man i'm gonna break this out

20:38Rich Eisen:you know but he he didn't like the shine it's unbelievable last one for you steve kerr re-signed why what's the story behind that i mean you know not to be uh glib with it but because roughly 20 million dollars is a whole lot more than the seven or eight that that your network i believe was putting in front of him. So that's part of it. I think because Steph Curry is a wonderful partner to enjoy this basketball game with, and Steve wasn't ready to walk away from that. And then, and this was, you know, a big part of the delay. I don't know all the details of how those meetings went with Joe Lacob and Kirk Lacob and Mike Dunleavy over the course of the past three weeks, but Steve needed to hear confidence and regarding alignment of vision, you know, their spirit to together and kind of their relationships.

21:27They've been through a lot. They've accomplished a lot. But when you see, you know, Bob Myers leave the GM post a couple of years ago for reasons that were partly related to the interpersonal dynamics, you kind of understand that there was a chance that Steve was going to do the same thing. But obviously he felt good enough about where they're at as a group and they felt the same way. So two more years with Steve.

21:48Rich Eisen:And there's no spidey sense that LeBron's on the way. So that would be a good idea to stay put. Sam? Maybe. No, I mean, you know, I mean, it's listen, they are they're going to be pulling out all the stops to do something. They know, you know, we talked Lakers at the top, Rich. It's like desperation meter. It's Lakers and Warriors are in the same neighborhood right now. They know that Steph, as mild mannered as he is and as chill as he is, he's not happy not being in contention. He's not going to be OK just coasting down the back end of his career. So whether it's LeBron, whether it's Giannis, whether it's Kawhi, I mean, they're going to be making all of the phone calls.

22:26All right.

22:26Rich Eisen:If anybody's found your wallet, where should they return it, Sam? The Athletic? Marriott Marquis, front desk. Ladies and gentlemen, Sam Amick. Fun to look out. Appreciate it. Everybody, let's help Sam out. Thanks for the time, man. Always love it. Look for more of my text to you, sir. Thank you. Love it. Thanks, Rich. Sam Amick, must follow, must read from the Athletic, senior NBA writer. How about that? That desperation level. hey listen uh the born on date for for lebron is only slightly longer than steph curry i bet you if you ask people how old steph curry is they'd say 33 well that's what 35 feels like it he looks young plays young but he's what 38 yes sir you want to look that up to make sure i'm almost sure that is correct 38 yeah you know drafted in 09 so and then jimmy butler we'll see what happens with his knee come back right draymond you know made a lot of comments um gave birth to a lot of comments outside of what he said about didn't want to be uh charles barkley in a houston rockets uniform a lot of pushback came with look at his stats not too bad with him in a houston rockets look up those rockets numbers you know what i mean and compare it to what he's putting up right now and it's just like hey yeah be careful what you say because people will look that up but him also talking about metrics of like well we're on national television we sell out arenas and it wasn't talking championships lebron shows up with curry and um freshly back jimmy butler and Draymond Steve Kerr dialing it all up different ball of wax we'll talk about the LeBron future next with Jamal Crawford who's calling tonight's game 5 between the Spurs and the Timberwolves tonight on NBC 844-204-RICH is the number to dial here on the program a SoFi personal loan is here to help you achieve something once thought impossible overcoming high interest credit card debt Walk the tightrope of your finances with a one low fixed rate, monthly payment, no fees required, and as soon as the same day funding.

24:38Rich Eisen:That's right. Pull off your own debt-defying stunt with a SoFi personal loan. Visit SoFi.com slash trick to learn more. Loans originated by SoFi Bank N.A. Member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891. Coming back with Overreaction Monday on a Tuesday and yet more NFL schedule games announced.

25:05Rich Eisen:The Rich Eisen Show Podcast.

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