Hour 2: The Best Players of the NFL Network Era, plus ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler

0:00Rich Eisen:Protein is now at Starbucks, and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks.

0:15Rich Eisen:K-pop Demon Hunter's Saja Boys Breakfast Meal and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor. No, really. Stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. And participate in McDonald's while supplies last. This is The Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody. Can't get enough of The Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck.

0:52Rich Eisen:You can find us everywhere. Watch us weekdays on Disney Plus from noon to 3 Eastern. Miss the show? We've got a podcast so you can listen anytime. But here's the best part. Our YouTube channel. Subscribe at youtube.com slash Rich Eisen Show and you'll never miss a moment. Now, on with the show. A.A. Ron, where are you? This is the Rich Eisen Show. Where is A.A. Ron right now? McCarthy has said, though, Rich, we're wondering who the quarterback of the Pittsburgh Steelers is going to be. I don't just because Aaron doesn't want to let you know about it yet. Earlier on the show, Fox Sports Rules Analyst, Dean Blandino.

1:32Rich Eisen:Coming up, ESPN senior NFL writer, Jeremy Fowler. Author, Ken Davidoff. And now, it's Rich Eisen. No A-A-Rod, huh? Hour number two of the Rich Eisen Show is on the air. 844-204-RICH is the number to dial here on the program. We got baseball on the brain, as we all know. in hour number three, 101 Lessons from the Dugout, brought to you by the writer Ken Davidoff. He's going to join us in studio in hour number three. We're going to talk some baseball. Love it. I haven't seen Ken in a very long time, back when I was covering the World Series for ESPN and ESPN Radio. So it's been a while. We'll chat some baseball with him.

2:16Rich Eisen:I know you're up for talking about baseball. Yep. Jason Feller. Always. Your Dodger hat. I'm not loving baseball. I don't understand that. But we'll talk about that later on. As you know, I always talk here on this program about in the NFL, certainly more than most sports, but all sports, the NFL in particular, there's always an iceberg for every team. We only see the tip above water. Underneath the water is the full story. And the iceberg that we keep talking about here over and over again involves the Philadelphia Eagles and the offense. and why does it work when Shane Steichen's there and then Kellen Moore's there, and then in the years after, speaking of baseball, like remember Brett Saber Hagen went once every other year winning a Cy Young, and then in between not so much, right?

3:07Rich Eisen:Yeah. So it's like every other year the offense hits, and then in between when they have to hire somebody new because Shane Steichen goes somewhere else to coach the Colts, and then Kellen Moore goes somewhere else to coach the Saints, there's a new offensive coordinator there that is the scourge of the city. lights up phone lines there in Philadelphia. And what is going on? Why is A.J. Brown constantly being talked about on the trading block? And we hear every now and then Albert Breer of Sports Illustrated and yesterday Mike Garofalo of formerly NFL Media, now of NFL Network 2.0, talking about that there's friction between the quarterback and the wide receiver.

3:50Rich Eisen:And sure enough, this very morning, the old deep dive on ESPN, the app and ESPN.com. Inside Eagles 2025 friction as Jalen Hurts stands at crossroads is the headline written by Tim McManus. And our next guest joining us here now is Jeremy Fowler. How are you, Jeremy? Good to see you. I'm good, Rich. Thanks for having me. You still there in Arizona? I am. I'm about to head to the airport. We had a nice three days in Arizona. Okay. Everybody was mingling and making rule changes. There wasn't a lot of buzz out of here. It was pretty quiet, to be honest. One of the more quiet meetings up there. Well, until your story comes out.

4:29Rich Eisen:We had to mix it up. I'll give you the floor here. What did you find about what we're not seeing? What is beneath the surface for this potential iceberg at the crossroads involving their Super Bowl MVP and highly paid quarterback, Jeremy? Yeah. Well, Rich, the impetus was what we were seeing on the field, which was a problematic passing offense in Philadelphia, really for the last two years. They just happened to win big because they had a great running game in Saquon Barkley, and they just sort of overwhelmed people on their way to the Super Bowl. But it's been two years of struggles in the passing game.

5:01A.J. Brown showed his frustration nearly every week. So we just sought out to figure out what was ailing the Eagles' offense, what the true problems were. So, you know, we talked to more than a dozen team sources, people in and around the team and the quarterback to try to figure it all out. And Jalen Hurts' name came up a good amount of times as far as just some problems there, where despite his immense success and his obvious strengths, he's clutch. He's got a steely resolve to him. But, you know, we learned that coachability was an issue at times, that he's rigid in what he wants. You know, even in 2024, when they were on their way to the Super Bowl, he and Kellen Moore had some tense moments because Kellen was trying to implement some motions and some shifts and some under center work and some new things.

5:43that Hurts either hadn't done or really didn't want to do, that played out a little bit this year too. And so it's a situation where, you know, sources told us you never quite know what's coming out of the huddle. When you call a play, Hurts might go with a play he wants, which to be sure some quarterbacks do, you know, they'll call all the buzz and all those things. But he'll even have some hand signals that maybe weren't in the playbook or weren't installed by the coaches. So there was just a little bit of a discord there over the last year or so, and it showed up because they didn't have the running game this year.

6:11offensive line was beat up AJ Brown was frustrated they looked a step slower at really every position so it was all on Jalen Hurts and the results weren't great so uh clearly he's a well-established good quarterback in the NFL but he's at a crossroad right now going on another coordinator and it's a situation where the train is sort of moving and he's got to jump on it well there was one moment

6:33Rich Eisen:in time that you um in your article bring up that I I want to bring up here because it's something that maybe a fan can hang their hat on remembering from last season to try and use that as the the portal into which your reporting is uh placing this on on jalen hurts his shoulders as well as his personality and his desire to do what he wants and it was the the final throw against green bay where you know sirianni elected to go for it on fourth down rather than kick a long field goal and I'll give you the floor on that moment and how emblematic it may be of your reporting here Jeremy yeah that was an example that certainly came to mind after the fact you know should we look into what goes on with the Eagles process how they get from a play call to an actual play there just seemed to be a discord there and even in that game in the locker room Devante Smith said yeah number one 11 just kind of worked out their own play on that which is AJ Brown and Jalen Hurts just decided to go deep and let's go for it.

7:40And you can see Nick Sirianna mouthing why on the sideline. You can see it on the telecast. And, you know, of course, he covered for his players after the game. But it, to me, was emblematic of maybe what has been going on with how plays get to the field and who's calling them. Now, great quarterbacks, and Aaron Rodgers is an example of you kind of can run your own offense at times. You can change the play. You can have your own hand signals with receivers. Like, that does happen. But the fact that the Eagles passing game has really struggled the last couple of years combined with some of those tactics, it kind of comes to a head a little bit.

8:16Rich Eisen:OK, and then the final play of the year where there was a huddle that played out on national television, a timeout called, you know, do or die moment for the Eagles season on the line against the 49ers in a very disappointing game or big struggle offensively. and this is what led your article um so to jalen hurts was the one who came up with the play call that ultimately did not work and then got lit up uh by the blogosphere by the social media sphere by the sunday morning football show spheres saying that's the play you come up with it was jalen hurts who came up with that one jeremy so our sources said that jalen hurts recommended the play however one of those sources said that he was asked what do you want to run jay or something to that effect like he was kind of queued up and so he brought up the play at that point suggested it once he was asked so I thought that whole situation was emblematic of the year you just have a lot of different cooks in the kitchen um and you don't always have a clear direction you know at least with like with Kellen Moore in the offense last year they knew what they were and Kellen Moore parlayed it and do a job with the New Orleans Saints which he did a good job with Tyler Shuck.

9:30So they've shown that when they have kind of a top shelf play caller that they can take the lead on this thing and drive the boat. Shane Steichen, same thing three or four years ago, and Kellen Moore. You know, but the problem is when they've gone in-house, it's usually an extension of Nick Sirianni, whose offense with Philadelphia originated from him that he got from past stops and brought it over. And then you have Jalen Hurts, who, depending on who you ask around the league is somewhat limited to where you know he likes what he likes he wants the ball from under shotgun in most cases and likes to run uh really one-on-one patterns to try to get guys open versus man coverage well defense is adjusted they tried to take away his running ability dared him to throw against zone coverage and that's where aj brown disappears a little bit and so all those factors really come to a head at the end of the year on this one play where the offense is kind of looked that is simplistic it was in that moment the 49ers knew exactly what was coming they read it they sniffed it out uh but yet that was a situation where maybe it was hard to tell who was exactly in control in that moment i still think there are some parts of that huddle i don't know but from what i was told hertz was asked what he wanted to run he mentioned the four vertical

10:42Rich Eisen:play and then they got what they got what's going on with him and aj brown that you're able willing yeah to share here jeremy so i i don't necessarily think they're in a terrible place at the moment and jalen hurt said after the year that he and aj brown spoke and that they are in a quote great place i believe is what he said so that is a positive i really think it's one of those situations rich where there's no blowout fight you know multiple sources told me they I never saw AJ and Jalen in some sort of huge scuffle or issue. Brown can kind of do that on his own, as we saw week to week. You know, what happened at the end of the season was probably the eighth worst thing that happened, you know, when he's addressing his coach and getting mad on the sideline.

11:25It was kind of a weekly charade. And certainly AJ deserves his share of the blame and the struggles last year, too. But I think it's a situation where you have two players who have slightly different personalities, but also internalize a lot. And Jalen Hurts, I think part of the struggle he has is he's very much an introvert. He's very much to himself. Whether he wins a Super Bowl or throws a pick, he's kind of the same guy, which can be hard to read inside a locker room, especially one with a lot of personalities and ego. So, you know, he's not necessarily a galvanizer in that way, although he tried later in the year to change on that and did a pretty good job from what we were told.

12:01But you have a situation where A.J. Brown and Jalen Hurts are probably not communicating all that much on a productive level week to week where the airing of grievances in a positive way is not happening. So really you just have some festering of feelings and you go out there every week and hope for the best, but it seems pretty clear that can they coexist maybe, but it's probably not best. I mean, most people I talked to around the league do expect AJ Brown to still be traded. It just really depends on when, and can they get a decent offer for him? Because the Eagles wanted a lot. New England Patriots or whoever was involved couldn't match that.

12:35And then now you got the draft coming up that could create some urgency.

12:39Rich Eisen:Yeah. And then there's the June 1st date that I keep hearing about that the trade needs to happen after that for cap purposes and, and planning purposes, if it happens at all. And, you know, it's difficult to say that they're, they, they are in a great place if the rest of the league is constantly knocking on Howie roseman's door um you know and there's a reason for that i mean you're at the the annual meeting where there's constant talk at places like this the combine and so the league kind of does know the stuff that we are hunting and pecking to see if someone would say on the record and that's why i think maybe everybody thinks a trade is coming but then you do read a story like this jeremy and you wonder is there somebody in the building trying to do jalen hurts dirty you know i i'll be honest here what do you yeah i can understand that question but really all i can speak for is my reporting where we saw what was happening on the field so we tried to figure out sure what was the problem and you know so we asked a variety of people from different areas of the building outside of the building the whole deal and a lot of the answers were pretty consistent so that that's what was surprising because you want to be fair to a player like jaymond hurts who has had immense success.

13:58And to be sure, from what we're hearing, he seems pretty open to the changes that are coming with OC Sean Mannion. And so he's going to bring in, we'll see what it looks like on the field, but a variation of what the Packers did. That's the school he came from. He was with the Minnesota Vikings once upon a time. You're going to see Jalen Hurts under center more. You're going to see motions and shifts. Modernized offense, you're going to see it a little differently in Philadelphia. And sources have told us that he's been open to that so far. And I know it's early in the process. So maybe it's a situation where they get a total reset and a new mind in there and new ideas.

14:33And that can sort of spark hurts who we've told really responds well to challenges like any sort of challenge, whether it's being benched in college or challenges in the offense after the 2023 season when things went poorly. You know, he's ready to respond well and has that kind of resolve. So I do expect that. but you know his name came up a lot you know when we started asking around and i think there is some sympathy for aj brown in circles of the building even though he comes across as a crybaby and probably is in a lot of cases because you know the behavior you can see it on the field it's every week that had to be exhausting and was for the team but uh sometimes when you ask like what's the deal with aj they'll say pretty plainly it's trying to work around an offense with jalen hurts as the quarterback and they feel like that just doesn't create layups in the offense those easy yards that most star receivers can get elsewhere and it's just a struggle but manion is gonna do

15:26Rich Eisen:what to fix it right i mean that's a question here and the coach and it's just so like you look at it one way and there's another way to potentially look at it like jalen hurts responds well to challenges but previous you know administrations have been challenging to get under center you know let's uh let's do something this way let's do something that way and his answer is this well I'll just do it my own way that that's some of the reporting I'm reading in your article but if he is open to open to changing and Mannion could bring something then why would it be best for AJ Brown to be gone is the last question I have here Jeremy you know what I mean like because you can well so there are a couple of layers there with AJ Brown if you can get a first round pick still at this stage although the Eagles wanted more than that a couple weeks ago, then it's a deep receiver class.

16:17You can get somebody new in there with some fresh legs. A.J. Brown's still elite, yes. Has he looked a half step? Depending on who you ask around the league, some executives I've talked to think that he doesn't look quite as explosive or fast. Now, the context there could be he was frustrated all year. His mind and head wasn't in it. He's only 28 years old, so certainly he's still playing at a high level. And the Rams, who inquired about A.J. Brown, ultimately backed out and kept Devontae Adams. they saw a guy who was fully capable to be in their offense and they're one of the hottest ones in the league so he's got value but I think you can if you're the Eagles you can get some more draft capital you need an edge rusher and then you would need another receiver at that point you can do that get younger and maybe get better by cohesiveness not necessarily just by replacing Brown but you know you can get a more balanced attack and get somebody who exactly fits what Sean Mannion wants to do and start over and then you know with Jalen Hurts and the offense improving this is at least a clear change before it was kind of I'll give you an example in 2025 it wasn't always clear exactly what they wanted from Jalen Hurts too because to shoot Hurts and Bale and I talked to a source close to him about this that he went all offseason thinking it was status quo it was the Nick Sirianni Kevin Batullo traditional offense that he started with and then when they get to training camp they started dabbling more in the under center stuff and then like by week six or seven they realized they couldn't run the ball because they were beat up up front so they had to do some under center stuff to get to just help saquon in the running game so jalen hurts i do think at that point understood the why as to why the change is happening it doesn't mean that he liked it but you know to his credit he's like hey i thought we were doing something all off season and then we're not so what's the problem here so i think at least this is now a clear change they have a clear new identity this is what we're doing and this is exactly what we need from

18:06Rich Eisen:you and it's up to him to adjust all right um last one for you jeremy uh i'm going to ask you the what's more likely question i've been asking everybody in the information business um involving max crosby what is more likely that he stays a raider that he's back and that um that he the experience he had about being traded than not. And the emotions coming from that and being back in Vegas supersedes whatever emotions caused him to be traded in the first place. Or this is all just a smokescreen to get his draft value, compensation value back up to what the Ravens paid, and he will be somewhere else this season.

18:51Rich Eisen:Jeremy. Rich Eisen here. The April 15th tax deadline is coming fast, but don't worry. Hand off your taxes to a TurboTax expert today. You know how April feels. Everything speeds up. Games matter. More hoops and hockey schedules tighten. Your phone won't stop buzzing. And somewhere in the middle of it all, there's that quiet little reminder. Taxes. You'll get to it tonight or tomorrow or after the weekend. And if you handle it the old way, you're refreshing your inbox like it's breaking news. Waiting. Wondering. Hoping everything's squared away. That's a lot of mental bandwidth. With Intuit TurboTax Expert full service, you can match with a dedicated expert who understands your specific tax situation and handles your taxes for you, start to finish.

19:34Rich Eisen:You can do it all online or meet in person at one of their new tech-enabled store locations. Have your tax forms imported directly into the app and hand everything off to your TurboTax expert. While they work to get you every dollar you deserve, you can go about your normal routine, giving you time back to focus on what actually deserves your attention, like rooting for your team to make the playoffs. April 15th is not waiting, people. Visit TurboTax.com and hand off your taxes to a TurboTax expert today. Rich Eisen here. I've traveled all over for some of the biggest NFL moments you can imagine.

20:10Rich Eisen:Conference championships, Super Bowls, draft weekends, and everywhere I go, the city just feels different. It's buzzing, packed, electric. Now, take that energy and multiply it by the entire world. That's what's coming this summer with the FIFA World Cup. Fans from every corner of the globe are going to be traveling to experience it live. And when that many people come to town, they're all looking for a place to stay. That got me thinking. If you live in or near a host city, this is one of those rare moments. You already have a space. This summer, you could list your space on Airbnb while fans are in town for the FIFA World Cup, not as a full-time thing, not as some huge lifestyle change, just during an event when demand is naturally high.

20:53Rich Eisen:When I travel for big games, I just want a comfortable place in a real neighborhood, and that's exactly what so many visiting fans will be looking for. If you've ever thought about listing your space, this summer is a great time as we welcome FIFA World Cup fans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host. O, O, O, O 'Reilly! Check engine, ABS, or maintenance light on? Take the guesswork out of your warning lights with O 'Reilly Veriscan. The service is free and provides a report with solutions verified by ASE-certified master technicians. And if you need help, we could recommend a shop for you.

21:35Rich Eisen:Ask for O 'Reilly Veriscan today. Oh, oh, oh, O 'Reilly. Auto Parts.

21:49Yeah, so I will lean toward Max staying right now, at least in the short term. I don't sense any major movement or any sort of plotting by the Raiders to move on here in the next few weeks. Now, we have windows of time where that could change, right? We have the draft. If that creates some sort of urgency where teams start calling, maybe strengthening their offers, they're not trying to buy as low anymore, maybe that changes something. But I've talked to people from both sides of the situation, from Crosby's side and from the Raiders. They seem comfortable, fully comfortable, moving on with each other right now.

22:23Now, if they could get something similar in compensation to what they got from Baltimore, or at least in the ballpark, they're not going to get two ones anymore. but if they can get that at some point either around the draft or maybe closer to the season or the third option which I've talked to several teams about this they could see this as he goes into the year shows he's healthy plays with the Raiders get some sacks he's moving well on that knee and then the trade deadline comes and you can make a major move at that point for a team that's close and sitting at six and two and needs a pass rusher to get over the hump you know that to me is a possibility.

23:00But right now I think they're comfortable with Max and have told me as such. So they're going to move forward and I would lean toward him staying right now.

23:07Rich Eisen:Jerry, thanks for the time. Appreciate it. Travel safe and we'll chat with you closer to the draft. Thanks again, man. Yes, sir, Rich. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Anytime. That's ESPN senior NFL reporter Jeremy Fowler. Check out his work alongside Tim McMahon. Tim McManus, pardon me. on ESPN's digital and online channels. Okay. There you go. He and Jalen Hurts and A.J. Brown don't see eye-to-eye enough like they used to, and it shows up in games at the worst possible times with a situation where the coach is like, what do you think, Jalen? I like this play. And the offensive coordinator's like, okay.

23:57Rich Eisen:you go for it four verts niner sniff it out it's on you jalen hurts right

24:05Rich Eisen:right or is it on the head coach for saying what do you want to do jay and he gives a play and it's just like yeah i i yeah if you don't like i kind of put this on the coach in the oc unless you got i mean how but can't let the crazies run the asylum it's not does that though, Jay? It's if it works, it's like genius. Right? Remember, we were like, I even said here and I think we all agreed, John Harbaugh once upon a time goes to Lamar Jackson. What do you want to do? Go for it. Alright, let's go for it. They go for it. And it's just like, hey man, you're a guy, you're a coach, just asking your players, what do you want to do?

24:47Rich Eisen:And it works, and you're a player's coach. Or it doesn't work, and at least you're a player's coach. But Sirianni does it, and they lose the season on that one play. Now it's like, what a mess. Yeah. Tip an iceberg, though, you know? Right, but the Eagles love that iceberg, man, and they win Super Bowls with it, too. Yeah. Seems like they maybe won in spite of all the stuff that was going on. How can you sit here and say, you know, I'm not saying you are, but how can anyone sit here and say you're winning in spite of Jalen Hurts when he was the clear MVP of that Super Bowl. And 100 % in this day and age, for any player on a losing team to be considered the MVP of the Super Bowl by a large group of people, meaning America, watching the game.

25:40Rich Eisen:He's without a doubt. Without a doubt, the best players in both. He was that special in the Super Bowl twice. And then the regular season happens the next year. Then you look at all the different offensive coordinators this guy has had since college, and you're like, it's amazing that he can even tie his shoes. Superior offensive line in those years. Right, and then when he doesn't or have a superior play caller, it doesn't work.

26:11Rich Eisen:And you as a Cowboy fan, you're like, stir it up, man. Keep stirring it up unless they love stirring it up. It doesn't matter. You know, I got to be honest when you say that. I am so happy this offseason that take away yesterday's press conference. Cowboys have pretty much stayed out of the headlines this whole offseason, and I love it. Right, and then you read in this article, like Big Dom and Brandon Graham went to hurt saying, you've got to be more accessible to your teammates. You've got to have more personality. Get to be one of the guys more. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then it's just like, what's up with that?

26:51Rich Eisen:I'm wondering if Hertz plays anywhere else. Is he considered, well, I guess the debate of where he ranks TJ is top five, top 10. Is he a top half of the league quarterback on any other team? Or is it just Philadelphia with this line, Saquon, Tush Push, weapons around him and then it works? He is so good when he's healthy enough to run. And that's part of his game. He is so good sometimes throwing on the run. Some of his deep passes, they're so good. Yeah. He was, just to finish my thought, he was impossible to stop in Super Bowls, guys. Yeah. Against the Chiefs. I get it. At the top of their games.