Hour 2: ‘What’s More Likely’ plus NFL Insider Tom Pelissero

19:06Rich Eisen:And I've got my distance. I'm on my desk, my own little area. But are you still looking at me? I'm just saying this is kind of cool. We can reach out and touch each other. Yeah, I like this.

19:15Tom Pelissero:I can say hello to TJ.

19:16Rich Eisen:You got one more. What's more likely? Who's more likely to be stopped at security by trying to bring a sandwich? This guy said he's bringing one. I have one. You're bringing your own sandwich. I have my own sandwich. I'm bringing a New York sandwich. It's going to LAX. Well, that's just out of LAX. We don't know how it's going. You're bringing your own sandwich to JFK. I bought a sandwich that's going. Why? Why? Because I want it for tomorrow for lunch. Tomorrow? Yeah. Not even for this flight. Tomorrow? Yeah. Is it from some special place? It has to be. Yeah. Across the street from the hotel.

19:44Rich Eisen:It's called Pathmark. I can't. So it's from? Pathmark. From wall bombs? This guy's not eating a Pathmark sandwich. You think I could eat in Manhattan? I don't eat that sandwich. You think I could take a whole pie? I don't eat in Manhattan, people? Can we get a whole Joe's pie? That would be fantastic.

19:59Tom Pelissero:You definitely. Their nose is no way.

20:01Rich Eisen:I ask you, again, before we go to break, who's more likely to be stopped at the airport for trying to bring in a food bag? I don't want a profile, but it might be there. guy to my right immediately. Now, here's why he says that. Because this morning, I brought a sausage, egg, and cheese croissant from Dunkin'. And I stuck it in my backpack and completely forgot about it until about five minutes before the show started. His backpack is going to go through the scanner thing and they're going to be like, excuse me, sir. Wait a minute, so you bought food and forgot you bought it? I mean, we got...

20:36Rich Eisen:Kimberly Martin started talking to us in the back. Now we're going to break. Now we've got to throw the brakes. Pay the tank to the moon. Now we've got to throw the brakes. Now we've got to throw the brakes. The way you talk like that is going to piss off Colleen Wolfe. You be careful. Oh, hey, yo, hey, yo. Tom Pelissero is coming up.

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21:46Rich Eisen:The Rich Eisen Show podcast. I got to step in here because our radio audience has returned. Ladies and gentlemen. Tommy. The SPN Radio presented by Progressive Insurance is back. Tom Pelissero is here. Good to see you, Tom. How'd it say? I said hello. Hey, Tommy. There's our other boys in the studio. All right. Wow. The disdain. Serious subject matter, so let's all bring it in. What is going on with TJ Watt in Pittsburgh, PA? Tom, what happened?

22:13Tom Pelissero:So the timeline, as I understand it, is that TJ Watt came into the facility on Wednesday morning and he had some pain. He went and did his workout. It was a player's day off, but he went in there to lift. He then went through his normal dry needling treatment. And after the treatment, he was still in pain. They performed a bunch of different tests. At first, they were thinking based on where the pain was, maybe it was his collarbone. They ruled that out. They then did x-rays on his ribs. That came back negative. Then they did some additional tests that revealed a small hole in his lung. J.J. Watt took to Twitter with similar but not exactly the same version of the story, saying that it's a partially collapsed lung for J.J.

23:01Tom Pelissero:TJ via JJ blaming the Steelers team physicians or the people giving that treatment for the injury. My understanding is that may be a little bit more to that piece of the story, but at any rate, not likely that TJ Watt is going to be able to play on Monday night against the Dolphins. Sounds like this is just something where he just needs to rest based upon the procedure that he had done to repair that hole in his lung, the partially collapsed lung. could be back as soon as the following week's game. But obviously for a Steelers team that needs every one of these wins to hold off the Ravens in the AFC North, not great to be without one of your best players in all likelihood on Monday night.

23:47Rich Eisen:So I guess the question is the reporting on how this happened, right? I mean, you mentioned JJ's post. I think we have it. And where this goes from here. And after a dry needling treatment session at the facility, man, that's scary. That's as scary as it comes, man. I mean, with what's going on. So it's just rest and then maybe back in week 16 is what you're saying.

24:15Tom Pelissero:That is what it sounds like at this point. And again, if TJ Watt wants to go down the road of a grievance through the NFLPA or punch any of those buttons, then perhaps there will be more answers forthcoming about exactly Well, it happened again. My understanding is he came in to the facility on Wednesday with pain already. After the dry needling session, that's when he continued to experience the pain. He went into the hospital. He had a battery of tests done. They were able to rule out a bunch of different things, including a rib issue. But he did have a puncture, a small hole in his lung. They fixed that.

24:51Tom Pelissero:Now it's just a matter of resting. Probably not a situation where he's going to be ready to play football in three days, but potentially as soon as week 16, TJ Watt should be back for a Steelers team that even though Alex Highsmith is playing at a really high level right now, they certainly could use TJ Watt as well.

25:10Rich Eisen:All right, words that I never thought I'd be asking you, Tom, but I'm going to ask you. Is Phillip Rivers playing for the Colts this Sunday?

25:18Tom Pelissero:The final decision, Rich, from what I understand, is not going to come until at least Saturday on Phillip Rivers, which makes sense. he's 44 I'm 44 I'm not attempting to play in the NFL but anytime that I undertake any physical activity that I have not done in a while when I go out to briefly shovel a little bit of my driveway that might not have been cleared off well enough if I lift any boxes if I get out of bed a certain way I wait until the next day to see am I going to be feeling this for a while here did I injure anything? They're trying to be as deliberate as they can with Phillip Rivers.

25:55Tom Pelissero:He, right away, the first practice on Wednesday, he was splitting the first team reps with Riley Leonard, who's dealing with a low-grade PCL sprain. Doesn't sound like that's going to be a big issue for him, full participant in practice the past couple of days. I would not rule out the possibility, Rich, that we see both quarterbacks play on Sunday in Seattle. It would make some sense. You know, Phillip has already said, and certainly people can be their own judge of what Philip weighs at this point, what type of shape he's in. Seems like perhaps after five years away, like most people, he may not be quite as svelte as he used to be.

26:30Tom Pelissero:Although, as he said himself, it's not like I was ever getting away from anybody. Maybe short yardage, goal line, are there packages for Riley Leonard? Do they want to put, if Philip Rivers indeed starts, 70 snaps on him or kind of ease him into the mix? Doesn't even make sense to put him out there after just a few practices or hold him back for another week. Those are the final decisions that need to be made on Saturday. I would say at this point, it would be a surprise if Phillip Rivers does not play on Sunday against the Seahawks. And for the Colts, you know, the sense that I got talking to people last night is whatever it looks like on the field, we know this.

27:04Tom Pelissero:In his workout on Monday, I was told his arm looked exactly the same. If anything, he might even have a little more velocity on it than he had back in 2020 because he hasn't had that just, you know, all the reps on his arm through the years. But body-wise, all those things, how does he rebound? How does his arm rebound? Those are all open questions because there's really not a whole lot of precedent for this. Even if they go to Seattle with Phillip or without him and lose that game, you're still in a position where you've got the next couple games at home. If you're able to win those, you've got 10 wins going into Houston in Week 18.

27:34Tom Pelissero:That's not to say this game doesn't matter. If somehow you can steal one from the Seahawks, that would obviously put you ahead of the game. But the 49ers and the Jaguars at home, those are two really, really big games here. So, you know, kind of the tightrope that they got to walk here. Does it make sense to expose Phillip in the Seattle game? Just get him out there, get his feet wet, let him see game speed, or do you hold it back another week? Again, I would be surprised if we don't see Phillip Rivers on Sunday, but final decision is not coming until at least tomorrow.

28:04Rich Eisen:All right. 40-something Tom Pellicero giving us information and perspective at Tom Pellicero for those who might know of a good chiropractor in the Minneapolis area for Tom right here on the Rich Eisen Show. knowing what you know and what you're willing to share how'd you take Joe Burrow's comments that started with if I want to keep doing this talking about having fun and not having fun talking about how there's a lot weighing on him personal, professional what can you say about what you heard from Joe Burrow and what it means, Tom? Joe Burrow has rarely, if ever, had a normal season, Rich.

28:51Tom Pelissero:I think start there. And anytime that a player is repeatedly dealing with injuries, it's going to weigh on them in a lot of different ways. I sat there with Joe Burrow the second week of training camp this year and talked with him, and I half-jokingly said to him, hey, I was supposed to be here two of the last three years to interview you once you had a wrist injury and the other one you had a uh your appendix out he's like oh it's you i'm like no the fact that i'm here interviewing you now proves i'm not the jinx but it's it's become part of you know the the joe burrow experience which is there's just all these bad luck things that he seems to be dealing with you know tearing his acl in his first year um you know dealing with the you know the wrist injury that he had dealing with the appendix i believe there was a calf or some other injury that he dealt with as well.

29:41Tom Pelissero:There's a lot of different things. And then this year to come out, you know, not play, they didn't play great as an offense. It wasn't on Joe. They didn't play great as an offense in week one. Then week two, you suffer a severe turf toe injury. You work your butt off for two and a half months to beat the timeline and get back. And then in your second game out, it's the defense that lets you down and can't get a stop. Now he throws two, you know, back-to-back picks. One's a pick six in that game, But overall, Burrow played at a really high level. And the Bengals, as so often has been the case, they just can't stop anybody.

30:12Tom Pelissero:Joe Burrow got his contract a couple of years ago. He made his push last spring, last January, February, that, hey, we need Jamar Chase, Tee Higgins, Trey Henderson. We need all those guys back. And they did it. They gave him all those players. The guy who's not been available has been Joe Burrow. And that's not to blame Joe for having the injuries that he's had. it's just the reality that you know your best your highest paid player your most important player hasn't been out on the field I think it's natural um you know for that to to weigh on a guy obviously there's other factors here like the fact that the defense has been an ongoing issue um that leads to some of that frustration but I I looked at that much more about the internal piece of this for Joe Burrow I mean if every single year Rich you had an injury that took you out for five months of the show you know by year seven you'd kind of be like god am I gonna keep doing this Like, is this worth it?

31:02Tom Pelissero:I'm not enjoying this a whole lot anymore. That's where it seems like Joe Burrow is right now. He still believes he's one of the best in his profession. I agree with him, but you'd like to think that he'd be on the field more than he has been. And it's pretty apparent that mentally, physically, emotionally, that has taken a toll on him.

31:20Rich Eisen:Okay. So if I pick up what you're putting down, if we gave you a multiple choice of who was he referring to, or what was he referring to about if I want to keep doing this? Is he referring to the injury gods? Is he referring to the front office? Is he referring to his coaching staff? You would choose injury gods? Bengals writ large. You know what I mean? Those are your four choices. Who is he referring to about if I want to keep doing this anymore? Because that sort of sounds like something that might have been going through Andrew Luck's temples, you know, back in the day.

31:57Tom Pelissero:Tom, that's the example was, you know, Andrew Luck walking away when he did, which was, you know, a stunning thing in the middle of the preseason in August. But that was years of, you know, the hits adding up and Andrew Luck played the game differently than Joe Burrow. Andrew Luck played like a linebacker. He wanted that first contact. He wanted to get hit and run people over. Joe, it's not as if he's, you know, exposing himself. Like they have been, you know, kind of freaky types of things. You know, you get tackled from behind and your foot bends a certain way. You tear the ligaments in your toe and it ends up being, you know, a two, three month type of an injury.

32:36Tom Pelissero:So it's one of those deals where.

32:38Rich Eisen:Tom, I hear you, but I'm the host of a sports talk radio simulcast on Disney Plus, ESPN app and ESPN radio. When I give you a multiple choice question, you must answer it. You know what I mean? Like who do you think he's. Okay.

32:54Tom Pelissero:I believe it is injury gods as much as anything. All right, let's entertain the other options here. If we're talking, as you put it, coaches or Bengals writ large, the idea that Joe Burrow would, for instance, request a trade and that the Bengals would actually grant that request and trade one of the top five players in the league when he's healthy would be, I would categorize it as far-fetched for a variety of different reasons. Chief among them, the Bengals don't make trades. It is very, very rare. They've done it more in recent years. They traded Logan Wilson this year. They traded four running back, Khalil Herbert, last year.

33:34Tom Pelissero:But they've made like three trades since the 1970s. They weren't willing to trade Trey Hendrickson. Their philosophy, Mike Brown's philosophy has long been, these are my players and you can't have them. The idea that Joe Burrow, they're just going to go, well, Joe's frustrated. We're just going to trade him away. There are so many steps that would have to go into that. Are there different levers that if he is feeling that way that he and his agent could pull? Certainly. I mean, we've seen wild things happen across the NFL. But it's not as if, oh, well, now that he said that, every team's going to call and the Bengals are going to ship him off in February.

34:12Tom Pelissero:that is way, way many steps down the line before we'd even get to having a realistic discussion about that. What I took away, and I appreciate Joe's honesty when he gets rolling, when he gets talking, he will say honest stuff. And the sense that I got was there are a variety of reasons that he's frustrated right now. But how enjoyable would it be if every year a job that you love and you can't do it two-thirds of the time, that's going to wear anybody out?

34:43Rich Eisen:Tom Pellicero here on the Rich Eisen Show. All right, before I let you go, Tom, my frequent question of you is the team that your sources, people who reach out to you, like to kibitz, like to talk, the team or situation that everybody has been curious about and tongues are wagging about behind the scenes in the National Football League entering the final four weeks. What is it?

35:06Tom Pelissero:Well, besides the Colts and dragging a 44-year-old grandfather out of retirement, which I've gotten plenty of people asking for the details on that. I would say that, you know, with really four weeks to go, we just kicked off week 15 last night, you're starting to get into just some of the speculation about in terms of, you know, what places could be in for a shakeup on some level. You look at the bottom of the standings, we've obviously already had the Titans fire their head coach. We've had the Giants fire their head coach. The Dolphins made a GM change, and we'll see what direction their search ends up going.

35:37Tom Pelissero:I mean, you know, you don't have to, you know, be super embedded in this thing to come up with some of the other teams that we're looking at. Last night, the Falcons get a big win and Raheem Morris was fired up about it. You know, what is their plan moving into the future? By any stretch, this has been a disappointing season. You have seen James Pierce Jr. come on. You did see Kirk Cousins and Kyle Pitts, for that matter, looking like the Kirk Cousins and Kyle Pitts you were hoping you were going to get back at the start of 2024 last night. But I would certainly anticipate that there's going to be a top-down review of everything that's going on in that Falcons building as the season winds down.

36:12Tom Pelissero:The Raiders are another one. They fired their offensive coordinator. They fired their special teams coordinator. The next question is, who else, if anyone, is left to fire? There's certainly going to be questions about Pete Carroll. We'll see how they play down the stretch. Doesn't sound like Geno Smith is going to play this week, so you'll have a backup quarterback in Kenny Pickett, who made some things happen. He looked okay in limited action last week. But there's a lot of decisions that need to be made in Las Vegas. Quite frankly, you know, some of those decisions do point back to Tom Brady, who arrived with great fanfare as my minority owner.

36:46Tom Pelissero:Mark Davis saying that, you know, he could help us set the entire program. He can help us identify and draft and develop the quarterback. You look at the results so far, they took a big swing on Ben Johnson. They took some type of a swing on Matthew Stafford. Didn't get either one. They ended up with Pete Carroll and Geno Smith. to this point that has not led to a bunch of wins they drafted two quarterbacks in the sixth round and neither one of them made the active roster coming out of training camp so where are you right now as the Raiders there is a lot that needs to be done on the roster nobody's sitting there saying that Pete Carroll has been playing with a full deck this year but when you hire Pete who's won a Super Bowl and has won consistently throughout his career you hire Chip Kelly as the highest paid offensive coordinator in the league making more money than like two or three guys two or three players on your entire offense, you expect the results to be a lot better than what they are now sitting there on a couple of wins.

37:39Tom Pelissero:And there's other places like Arizona. You know, they've got young coaches. My understanding is Michael Bidwell has been really supportive of those guys to this point, but you lose, I think it's now nine to 10 or 10 out of 11 games. There's certainly going to be an examination of what's gone wrong, even Washington for that matter, falling from, you know, the NFC championship game to being eliminated from postseason contention with a month to go. That's the big questions within the league. right now, whether I'm talking to other teams, whether I'm talking to potential candidates, everybody's trying to figure out exactly how far those dominoes are going to fall.

38:11Tom Pelissero:And the honest truth is, Rich, in a lot of these cases, even though we should not be subject to recency bias, even though a game or two should not swing massive organizational, multimillion-dollar decisions, the way that you play down the stretch, the way that, for instance, players are responding to Mike McDaniel right now, the way that it seems like the Falcons somehow in a short week showed up with more energy than Todd Bowles' Bucks to the point that Todd went to the podium and dropped 10 F-bombs in about a 10-second span there. All these things do play into the thinking, and it's the absolute truth that a lot of the decisions we're going to see play out over the next month have not actually been finalized at this point.

38:52Rich Eisen:And then the minute I have left, you didn't mention the Browns out of all the teams. What do you think?

38:57Tom Pelissero:The Brown situation is, in my mind, speaking just for myself, it's far more complicated because of their organizational structure. Paul DePodesta, who had been there or had been a member of the organization, he was living in San Diego, but had been on every Zoom for a decade and was overseeing the entire organization, had played a big role in building out data and analytics departments. He just left for the Colorado Rockies. So you now have this void atop this sprawling operation that he built there on a team that, quite frankly, has not had a consistent level of success at any time in that past decade.

39:32Tom Pelissero:So is that a simple matter of Jimmy Haslam fills that job and continues to move forward the same way? Does it have to do with potentially reorganizing some things, whether it's on the coaching side or the front office side? And then what do you do with the quarterback position? You got two first round picks in 2026. Shadour Sanders, last week, that's the best that he's played. He's shown growth. They want to see him continue to show growth over the back half of the season. You still have Deshaun Watson, who is going to be a member of your team for salary cap reasons as much as anything, though you can make a fair argument that Deshaun at his best is still the best quarterback on the Browns roster.

40:08Tom Pelissero:Dylan Gabriel is still there. And then you've got those picks to go get someone. That's what I mean when I say this is not checkers here. This is chess when it comes to the Browns. You've got to think about the really, really big picture, and that's what Jimmy Haslam and the people that he trusts within that organization, that's what they're going to be working through here. I don't think that it's as linear as well. Maybe you swap out the two-time NFL Head Coach of the Year and Kevin Stefanski bringing a new coach and move forward the same way. There's a lot of other discussions that have to go into exactly what that entire Browns organization looks like in 2026 and beyond.

40:43Rich Eisen:Well, speaking of playing games, my heart out on the radio is not playing them. So thanks for the time, Tom. We've got to say goodbye. You're the man. Really appreciate it. Thanks, Phyllis. Tommy P, everybody. There he goes. We're back from New York City in a moment.

41:00Rich Eisen:Rich Eisen here, and summer's here too. And that means it's travel season. My favorite summer trip last year was to Sao Paulo, Brazil. With so many fans traveling for the Los Angeles against Kansas City game, they got to see how lively the city is. I love the culture and the amazing food that I'm still craving. Those memories remind everyone that it's that time of year to plan a little getaway. And that's why summer has a way of turning weekends into big events. One minute, it's a normal week. And then all of a sudden, a huge concert, sporting event, or festival brings people in from all over.

41:33Rich Eisen:And when that happens, visitors start looking for places to stay all across your city. So if you're already planning a summer trip of your own, you could list your space on Airbnb and earn a little extra cash while you're away. It doesn't have to be some big year-round commitment. It's about making the most of a busy weekend when your place would just be empty otherwise. I can tell you, people love finding a place that helps them feel connected to the city that they're visiting. If your city's about to have a big summer moment, this is a great time to maximize your space. Your home might be worth more than you think.

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42:39Tom Pelissero:and fees extra see full terms at mintmobile.com mlb.tv on espn is your home for every out of market game live or on demand catch your favorite teams and players plus mlb network and espn app features like multiview syncing your stats key plays bets and fantasy all in one place sign up now for mlb.tv in the espn app separate subscriptions required blackouts and other terms apply. Visit stream.espn.com slash MLB TV for more information.

43:13Rich Eisen:The Rich Eisen Show. The podcast. ESPN's radio is presented by Progressive Insurance, supporting you every step of the way. Progressive.com. Alright, a few minutes we have left here. Hour number two. In a few minutes we have left here in hour two, I'm going to say something. that will be like kindling to the fire of analytics folks.

43:41Tom Pelissero:Uh-oh.

43:42Rich Eisen:Never really want to go at the analytics folks. Yeah, baseball guys love it. Because you know what they have? Coaches. Numbers. Yeah. They have numbers. They love it. They have certainties and odds and all that sort of stuff. You don't call people with numbers. You just don't do it. Nope. You shouldn't do it. I'm about to do it. Yeah, let's go. As you should. Because I've got a gut. Figuratively. That's better than numbers, man. I've got less of a gut at age 56. You know what I mean? Listen, I don't understand this going for two when you don't have to. I don't understand the reasoning either, the way it's been explained to me over and over and over again, is you never want to go for two at the end of the game when you have to because there's no time left for you to recover from the mistake.

44:26Rich Eisen:So you go for two as early as possible so you will know how many possessions you need to have. so you're not caught with no time left at the end of the game. You got one shot at it, and that's it. You want a second bite at the apple because you'll know how many possessions you need unless you just kick the field goal and go into extra points and go into overtime. But you don't want to go in overtime. You want to try and go for two at the end of the game. You're trying to win it. Why don't you do that early so you know you're going to have to get that? because you're, my answer is because you're then chasing points.

45:04Rich Eisen:You're now putting yourself in a position of, why would you want to know how many possessions you have left by going for two and you don't have to when it puts you in a position of needing more possessions than you might actually have to need? You understand what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. I do. Because the Falcons needed one more possession to get that field goal to win it that they might not have gotten back had the Buccaneers not thrown an interception to give them one or the Buccaneers had made that third down in the way that the Falcons made the fourth down in the game-winning drive that they were lucky to kind of get.

45:49Rich Eisen:And I don't understand it. Kick the extra points, and if you've got that two-point play that you think is so unbeatable, then pop it out of the bag at the end of the game. And you're not taking away momentum from your team because, again, that's the gut feel. You push back about, well, I mean, it's deflating to your team to go for two so soon knowing you now need extra possessions. Some teams are going for two to see how many possessions they need the rest of the game with, like, five minutes to go in the fourth quarter when you kind of know there's not many possessions left. can kind of guess how many possessions you have left based on how much time's left.

46:31Rich Eisen:Now you're needing another one if you don't get the two-point conversion when you're going for it, just to find out how many possessions you have left. And I understand this makes no sense to an analytics person. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast.