Hour 3: Bob Costas Talks Baseball Hall of Fame, Dodgers’ Spending & NFL Overtime Rules

0:00Rich Eisen:So good, so good, so good. Spring styles are at Nordstrom Rack stores now, and they're up to 60 % off. Stock up and save on Rag & Bone, Madewell, Vince, All Saints, and more of your favorites. How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Why do we rack? For the hottest deals. Just so many good brands. Join the Nordiclub to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first, and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. Get in the game with the college-branded Venmo Debit Card. Wreck your team with every tap and earn up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash, a new rewards program from Venmo.

0:41No monthly fee, no minimum balance. Just school pride and spending power. Get in the game and sign up for the Venmo Debit Card at venmo.com slash college card. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Select schools available. Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply at venmo.me slash stash terms. Max$100 cash back per month. This is The Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody. Can't get enough of The Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck. You can find us everywhere. Watch us weekdays on Disney Plus from noon to 3 Eastern. Miss the show? We've got a podcast so you can listen anytime. But here's the best part.

1:19Our YouTube channel. Subscribe at youtube.com slash richeisenshow and you'll never miss a moment. Now, on with the show. This is the Rich Eisen Show. From the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles.

1:37Rich Eisen:Fernando Mendoza, the only social media site that he's on is LinkedIn. He basically told the Raiders, you're on the clock for me. Earlier on the show, pro football hall of famer, Kurt Warner. Host of pro football talk, Mike Florio. Coming up, broadcasting legend, Bob Costas. And now, it's Rich Eisen. hour number three of the rich eisen show is on the air we already chatted with kurt warner in hour number one and somebody who's very familiar with the city ofst louis is about to join us here on the program 844-204-rich is the number to dial whether you're watching on disney plus or the espn app or you're listening to us on espn radio or sirius xm channel 80 uh there there was actual movement in the bronx new york huh the yankees actually did something they did they re-signed Cody Bellinger.

2:30Rich Eisen:That's right. Well, how about that? Which is significant in two ways. One, that we also, we got movement out of the Yankees. And two, the Dodgers didn't sign him, which is kind of crazy. Well, they already had him. Joining us now is none other than Bob Costas here on the program. How are you, sir? Good to see you, Bob. I'm good, Rich. You know, I saw that panorama of your studio as this third hour began. I have not visited you in your relatively new digs, but next time I'm out on the West Coast, we've got to do one in person because it looks as if Disney is perfectly willing to accede to any and all demands that you make, including a studio that is suitable as someone's apartment and would be at a high end if that's what it was.

3:20Rich Eisen:It's also filled with stuff that Susie, who you know very well, says, you know where they would look better. Right. I don't know if you're in that room of your spot, Bob, if that room is yours right there. Well, I'm in my kind of library, slash den, study, office. Got it. You know, serves as all those things. But you know, as we get older and you accumulate stuff, you do need a place to put it. And you don't want that place to be in a box in the basement or some storage room. You want to honor what it is. And you've got the ready-made circumstance. I do. Bob, last week we had Dennis Leary here, and he told a story of being at Gretzky's house.

4:07Rich Eisen:And there was no sign of anything that Gretzky did for a living anywhere in his house. And he went to go get an extra set of skates because Dennis wanted a skate. and they went into the garage and he grabs a box and he goes, no, that's the Hart Trophy, and he puts it off the side. He had the Hart Trophy in a box, Bob. Right. It's a great story. Here's my Hall of Fame ring. I don't wear it. It's too gaudy. I don't want to announce myself in this way. But you know what it is, actually? Let's say, I'm not going to use any names. Sure. Let's say someone's just kind of borderline. They had a good career and maybe they kind of inched into the Hall of Fame, whatever it might be.

4:49They had their honors, but it's not immediately self-evident to the casual person. Yes. They might be more willing to maybe not show off, but at least have it be visible. But you're Gretzky, you're Tiger Woods, you're Michael Jordan. If you're lucky enough to get Michael Jordan's house, it's highly unlikely that he says, here, come with me. Here are all my awards and citations. Come with me. Here's the cup. Here's all my green jackets. Here's all the master's green jackets, says Tiger. Tiger, I don't think it's necessary.

5:25Rich Eisen:That's pretty much, I know. Bob Costas here on the Rich Eisen Show. You mentioned about inching into the Hall of Fame. There's many folks who are viewing the latest to get into the Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum in legendary Cooperstown, New York, that are wondering if the latest are indeed worthy of being so enshrined. Where do you stand on that subject matter? Bob Costas. I think that Carlos Beltran and Andrew Jones are definitely, you know, neither one is Willie Mays or Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth or whomever, but they're certainly worthy based on their achievements on the field. But more and more, the voters who are only 10 year and more baseball writers, we're observers, We don't have a vote.

6:08More and more, they're confronted with sort of ethical dilemmas. And we know what those dilemmas have meant for Barry Bonds, for Roger Clemens, for Raphael Palmer, for Sammy Sosa, for Mark McGuire. Curt Schilling has now been remanded to veterans committees if he ever gets in. And Schilling never had anything that compromised his integrity as a pitcher. but he ticked a lot of people off with various pronouncements, including insulting the electorate itself, insulting baseball writers themselves. So that became a quandary for some people. And someone like Omar Vizquel, who outside Ozzie Smith was the greatest defensive shortstop of his era and was trending upwards at about 50 percent only a couple of years ago.

6:55Then reports come out of domestic violence and also that he supposedly, while a coach or manager in the minor leagues, harassed a bat boy who was autistic. And with that in mind, Vizquel's percentage has fallen from 50 % down to around 17. Now you have Carlos Beltran. Beltran, by the numbers, especially when you consider his incredible postseason resume. The guys who have higher OPSs in postseason play than Carlos Beltran are Lou Gehrig, Babe Ruth, and George Brett. End of conversation. Plus, you know, he has other things to recommend him in a long baseball resume, power, speed, et cetera, et cetera.

7:38But he was, by all reports, the ringleader of the 2017 Astro sign-stealing scandal, and some players actually asked him to tone it down, and he didn't do that. That cost him, that was his last year, by the way, as a player, and he wasn't a significant player anymore, but he was on the Astros roster as a player. He's the only player, we can surmise some others, but he's the only player that's been publicly linked to it and admitted his guilt in it. It cost him his job as manager of the Mets. He was all set to take that job on, and he only gets in now on his fourth year, when he would have been, not unanimous, but he likely would have been over 75 % in the first year, if not certainly by the second year.

8:22So collectively, the writers decided to give him some sort of probationary period. Now, Andrew Jones debuted at less than 10 percent. You got to get 5 percent to just to be over the line and continue on the ballot. So he debuted at 9 percent. No players ever started that low and eventually gotten elected. He wasn't elected overwhelmingly, but in this is ninth year, less next to last year on the ballot. He got in. Now, Andrew Jones, by most knowledgeable observers estimation, is the closest thing to Willie Mays that we've ever seen as a defensive center fielder. He won 10 consecutive gold gloves.

9:03He broke into the big leagues at 19 and he was essentially done by age 30. There was a huge fall off. But during his prime, not only was he the premier center fielder, but he averaged more than 30 homers a year, more than 100 RBIs, had a peak of 51 home runs sometime in the early 2000s. His lifetime batting average is only 254. That's one of the lowest among now Hall of Famers. But he does have the defense. But he also had a domestic violence situation. And that probably slowed his rise from 9 % to just getting over 75%. So the theme of a lot of this stuff now isn't just, do you think by the numbers or by his awards or by his historical significance this guy is in?

9:50Is he also, quote, clean enough in one way or another to be in? There is a stipulation when they say these are the qualities we're looking for. Yes, excellence on the field, blah, blah, blah. But they also say character, integrity and sportsmanship. And some voters interpret that differently than others and hold people to a higher or lesser standard, depending upon which one of the 400 plus writers you are.

10:18Rich Eisen:Bob Costas here on the Rich Eisen Show in the here and now, Bob. The Dodgers keep on keeping on. And the Kyle Tucker signing is just the latest$60 million or$50 million a year log on the fire. At least in the case of Tucker, he didn't put it all into some 401k like Shohei and Yamamoto and maybe some others have done beforehand. does baseball have a problem or is just this the 21st century version of what Steinbrenner was doing for the Yankees back in the day? No, it's even worse or more extreme. And the Dodgers situation, because it's so front and center, because of the two time World Series champions and everything they do is a focus of public attention.

11:11This is helping to bring it to a head. Most observers believe that a lockout after this season, which would take effect in December of 26 and would imperil at least a portion of the 27 baseball season, the way they look at it now, a lockout is almost inevitable because a large number of the owners just believe that this has gotten to a point where it's untenable. Now, this doesn't mean that you're criticizing the Dodgers for doing what they're almost uniquely able to do, uniquely even when compared to other rich teams like the Yankees. The Guggenheim situation, I don't know that I understand all the economic dynamics, but suffice it to say that they're in a position to do some things that other teams cannot.

11:55Now, when you talk about Kyle Tucker, Rich, Kyle Tucker is a very good baseball player. He's now making$20 million more than Aaron Judge. now one of the ways the teams have approached this is other teams offered kyle tucker a longer term deal six years seven years eight years the dodgers said four years at a much higher per annum salary and i think there are opt-outs why would kyle tucker opt out but i think there are opt-outs after the third year or something like that of the four-year deal well the opt-out

12:30Rich Eisen:would be if his contract suddenly looks like Aaron Judges in two years. You know what I mean? And that's part of the conundrum. But also, I can sit here and say there are some owners that can't do what the Guggenheims and the Dodgers are doing, or they won't. They will not because they can sit back and take whatever luxury taxes the Dodgers are willing to pay, what they're not circumventing by creating the retirement plans here. and just pocketing it and just going for it and just saying, you know, 90 wins are enough. Or you can also push back and say the Dodgers, with all their riches, damn near lost the World Series and one of the most exhilarating World Series.

13:14Rich Eisen:I think you and I can agree on that have been played in recent years. So where do you think the fix is? Is it a cap? I don't want a lockout. Nobody does. What do you think? You touched on a lot of interesting points there. The Dodgers are going to pay more this coming year in luxury tax than about a third of the franchises will pay in their entire payroll. That's crazy. There are a few things that mitigate the advantages of the wealthy teams. One is that there are multiple layers of playoffs. And if you get there, almost anything can happen. it's easy to forget that the Dodgers who played it as like a long game this year, this past year, they were trying to hit a peak in October and they were willing not to win 100 games.

14:06They only won, I think, 93. They had the third best division record among the division winners of the National League. Thus, they had to subject themselves to a two out of three wildcard round against the Reds. Now, that seems like a walkover in retrospect, but two out of three? Suppose the Reds won two out of three at Dodger Stadium in June. No one would bat an eye. They start Hunter Green in the first game. Suppose he shoves the bats up the Dodgers behinds, and now they're down one game to none, and all the pressure's on them. In the three preceding seasons, they lost to the Padres, who they were some 22 games better than during the regular season, lost to the Padres in the division series.

14:52The next year, they were swept by the Diamondbacks from their own division, 16 games better than them in the division series. And in 2024, when they were on their way to winning the World Series, they were down two games to one and a best of five to the Padres yet again. So that's how precarious all this is, to your point. Another point here is that one of the things that mitigates this is you now have three wild cards, and the two central divisions are really pretty much competitively equal. The only one of the 10 teams in the two central divisions that ranks in the top half of payrolls, as of last year, is the Cubs, and they have the capability of going higher.

15:36I think the next highest was the Tigers at like 17. So this is how the Brewers, who are extremely resourceful, can win 97 games and be in a good spot within their own division. This is how a year or so ago, the Royals, the Tigers, and the Guardians, I think, all made the postseason. And the Twins were in it until the last week. Those central divisions and the third wild card do kind of mitigate the disadvantages. And to your point, win 90, maybe even win 86, 87 under certain circumstances. You're in the tournament and baseball is different from other sports. In a short series, anybody can prevail.

16:17Rich Eisen:So you think a cap's the answer and whatever happened? Is that ever going to happen? They're talking about some version of a cap. Right. And I guess what they're hoping for is that they can convince Tony Clark and the other people at the Players Association that this is not going to wind up with any ballplayer standing on a corner rattling a tin cup and asking passerbys for loose change. You know, the setup here is not to drastically suppress salaries. It's trying to bring things into some kind of balance. And there are ways to do that with the overall revenue of the industry, the measurable revenue of the industry, which doesn't take into account the equity and how much more they can sell it for than they bought it for.

17:04But that's one of the advantages of investment, one of the advantages of ownership. But there are ways if there's something that comes up short. All right, here's the overflow. The Players Association redistributes it among their membership. And, of course, if there is a salary cap or some mechanism that mocks a salary cap, then it doesn't happen without a salary floor. I didn't mean mocks. That's the wrong word. What is the word I'm looking for? Mimics. Mimics. That's exactly right. It starts with an M. It mimics a salary cap, but it can't happen without a salary floor. If you're going to share all this revenue and if you're going to have some restraints on the top, then the Pittsburgh Pirates are going to have to spend some of that revenue sharing money.

17:53Rich Eisen:Right. And then also what I think a cap or whatever, as you point out, mimics it would also, I think, bring about a sense of urgency when free agency hits rather than this three month meandering that fans have a difficult time paying attention to, and it might mimic what we see in the NFL and the NBA, which is a rush to sign people because you got to use your cap money wisely with people that are worthy of the expenditure. I think it would be great if baseball had a free agency period that went off the rails, if you will, for a 10-day or a 14-day period, similar to what the NFL and the NBA has when their new league year starts, as opposed to, you know, Cody Bellinger signs in the middle of January, right before the NFL playoffs, or Kyle Tucker signs in the middle of the divisional round.

18:44Rich Eisen:It gets lost, you know? And then a lot of fans are waiting to see what happens, and the offseason takes forever, and it's tough to get fans juiced up. I shouldn't use that phrase, pardon me. It couldn't get fans excited in a way that baseball deserves, and baseball has clearly had the ability to engender That World Series, Bob, lit up phone lines on this show and all the metrics that we measure for popularity of videos and whatever. Like any NFL big time game, that World Series, just lit it up. Otani lights it up. I mean, it's there. It's there. It needs to be harnessed, Bob. It needs to be harnessed.

19:27At the Baseball Network, you know, Brian Kenney, who's great, likes to do all these top 10 lists. And he and I are doing one on Friday, and he's asked me to rank the top 10 World Series in the divisional era, which is since 1969. And on my list, I have this past World Series, Blue Jays, Dodgers, number one, displacing the series that had ranked as number one seemingly forever, the 1975 seven gamer between the Reds and the Red Sox that featured that Carlton Fisk home run off the foul pole in game six and a lot of Hall of Fame players and all the rest. I cannot remember a game seven that was any better because you had a half dozen moments where any pitch the whole World Series could have turned on it, including two consecutive pitches.

20:18the ground ball to second base that Rojas backhanded and then stumbled for a breathtaking moment before finally riding himself and IKF is out at the plate by a fraction of an inch and had he taken a lead literally of only one foot further down the third baseline there it is then the World Series is over there's a there's a replay review and how weird would it have been to have a World Series end on a replay review but the call was upheld and when they resumed on the very next pitch. That's when Ernie Clement, unsung hero until he became one of the big names of this postseason, hammers one to left center.

20:54And that's the ball on which Paz makes the catch, knocking Hernandez over. Two consecutive pitches that could have ended the World Series. So you have an incredible seventh game, but you also had, not equally incredible, but certainly noteworthy, a great sixth game in Toronto that ends on the double play with the Hernandez catch and he pegs to second base and Rojas makes a nice pick and they turn it into a double play. And you had an 18 inning third game at Dodger Stadium that ended with a walk off Freddie Freeman home run. Who else has two walk off home runs in back to back World Series? Nobody.

21:29Just Freddie. Yeah, I know. When you take it in its totality, I think this is the best World Series I've ever seen.

21:34Rich Eisen:I'm with you, Bob. 100%. And, you know, the Blue Jays proved in Dodger Stadium, unlike the Yankees, you don't have to fold after Freddie Freeman hits one out on you. I know extra innings of a World Series game. And, you know, the Blue Jays did everything but win. I know. They were a great man. The Blue Jays, you can make a case that they outplayed them, outplayed the Dodgers in this World Series. Now, before I let you go, you're going to turn from 29-time Sports Emmy Award winner Bob Costas into Bob from New York. You're here on the Rich Eisen Show. Bob from New York, you want to chime in on a subject matter involving the National Football League playoffs?

22:12Rich Eisen:Bob from New York? You know, we have talked about this before, Rich, and thanks for having me on. First time, long time, big fan. Thanks for having me on. And we've talked about this before, and I want to stipulate that this past weekend, okay, Denver and Buffalo, that is a great and exciting game. the Bears and the Rams incredibly exciting and the overtimes were also exciting that camouflages the fact that while they are moving in the right direction they've made it somewhat fairer it's still wrong in the postseason not in the regular season do whatever you want you don't want the games to go long for injury reasons and long season that 17 games that may now soon be 18 and you don't want the one o 'clock games to bleed over too far into the four o 'clock games but in the postseason you have to play a timed period now you can have the competition committee decide what that is is it 10 minutes is it a full 15 minutes but you have to play a timed period it's fairer and also it restores the strategy and the drama that's missing now i'm not saying it It wasn't dramatic bears and Rams.

23:25It was. But the race against the clock and the strategy that that involves is part of the drama of an important football game. And that is missing now under these overtime rules. The great games this weekend camouflages it. But structurally, if you just look at it in the abstract, it's not fair.

23:44Rich Eisen:So you want to play a full period, sort of like what, I guess, football, soccer does. You play a full period. And then so in this case, the field goal by the Rams wouldn't have ended the game. It would have given the Bears, or I guess McVay would have taken more time off to leave the Bears with little time left to retaliate. If possible. You know, when it was purely sudden death, of course, those old enough to remember, and I was six and I vaguely remember the game, you know, when Johnny Unitas and the Colts beat the Giants in the first sudden death that we ever saw, then people thought that was just great.

24:26but when the Patriots beat the Falcons now this doesn't take the Falcons off the hook for blowing a 28-3 lead and it doesn't take anything away from the great comeback and all the terrific plays that were part of it by the Patriots but the Patriots won the flip took it down the field scored a touchdown and the game was over Matt Ryan was the MVP never touched the ball and under those rules it happened twice to Aaron Rodgers on the postseason it happened to Drew Breeze. It happened to Patrick Mahomes and on and on. So you don't want that to happen. It works against the theater of the NFL, which usually the NFL is so good at emphasizing.

25:03Have they made it better now? Yes, they've made it better. Each team is guaranteed a possession, at least one possession. And now what you do, if you win the flip, you say, we'll kick off. You want the ball second because then you know what you need. You know if a field goal will do it, if a field goal ties it, if you need a touchdown to tie it. But on the other hand, if either an initial score is matched or neither team scores, then a huge advantage reverts to the team that got the ball first because numerically they're always going to have one more possession. If you play a time period, you're playing real football.

25:39That's all I'm saying.

25:40Rich Eisen:Bob Costas here on the Rich Eisen Show. All right, Bob, we'll take you in person next time. And if not, and you have something you want to get off your chest, we've got a new graphic for you. Oh, you do? Yeah, we do. There you go. Bob in New York with the phone line. There it is for you. Okay. Very nice. I like it. And, of course, as usual, when I go on these little mini rants about the NFL's overtime rule, they are taking copious notes on Park Avenue, and they will heed my every suggestion, as they always do. Right. They always do. And in the meantime, if we don't speak on this show before then, I look forward to your inevitable text to my phone during the NFL scouting combine coverage about how riveted you are by the action in Lucas Oil Stadium, Bob.

26:27Rich Eisen:Absolutely. That is the epitome of sports drama. I'm so sad that for yet again, for the 27th consecutive year by my count, I have to miss the NFL combine. I'm just unfortunately I keep making this mistake. I have other commitments. I should clear my calendar for the entire week surrounding it. And next year, perhaps I will. Yes, this year it's basketball, too, for you. Right. That's what you'll be shooting. And if, in fact, they want to do a sequel to Poodie Tang, that will also take me away from the combine. Bob in New York, Bob Costas, all in one. Thank you, sir. Great to see you. Great to see you.