Hour 3: Jason Garrett Talks Cowboys, Dez Catch Controversy & More

0:01Rich Eisen:This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. Right now, get up to 15 % off select storage solutions. Put heavy-duty HDX totes to good use, protecting what's important to you.

0:34Rich Eisen:The solid, impact-resistant design prevents cracking. And the clear base and sides make items easy to find even when the totes are stacked. Find select shelving and tote storage up to 15 % off at the Home Depot to organize every room in your home, from your garage to your attic. Visit homedepot.com. How doers get more done. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody. Can't get enough of The Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck. You can find us everywhere. Watch us weekdays on Disney Plus from noon to 3 Eastern. Miss the show? We've got a podcast so you can listen anytime. But here's the best part.

1:15Rich Eisen:Our YouTube channel. Subscribe at youtube.com slash richeisenshow and you'll never miss a moment. Now, on with the show. Hold on. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Thank goodness I have this job, because I sure can't play golf. You hit that guy! Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Earlier on the show, Apple TV lead MLS analyst Taylor Twellman. ESPN senior NFL writer Jeremy Fowler. Coming up, 10-year NFL head coach Jason Garrett. And now, it's Rich Eisen. Our number three of the Ray Johnson Show is on the air. We've got ourselves a fun show already in the books. First two hours, Taylor Twelman talking World Cup.

2:06Rich Eisen:We're less than an hour away from France and Spain performing for the entire globe for the right to make the World Cup final on Sunday in the New York, New Jersey stadium. They're in the Dallas stadium today. Or do they call it the Arlington Stadium? What do we call it? Is it Dallas? They're going to just call it Dallas. Really, what are the French? We just call it Jerry's house. They call it Jerry's house. Oh, the Jerry. Well, they got the curtain up, I'm sure. Jerry's like, put up the curtain for the Spaniards and the French, but for the Cowboys and Thanksgiving. For Dak, just leave the curtain.

2:39Rich Eisen:Let them just stare into the sun. What do we care about? At any rate, that's going down right now. In hour two, Jeremy Fowler joined us to talk about the list he's compiled from executives and coaches and scouts about the best quarterbacks in the league. 844-204-RICH is the number to dial to have a conversation. We've got a Chris Brockman, old fashioned Chris Brockman news update. Yeah, buddy. But joining us right now in advance of the launch of his new leadership podcast series, Coach to Coach, which will debut with episodes dropping on Wednesday with the Super Bowl champion and Hall of Fame head coach, Tony Dungy.

3:17Rich Eisen:And then one of our favorites, episode two, Corey Close of UCLA basketball. Ladies and gentlemen, Jason Garrett on the program. How are you, Jason? Good to see you. I'm doing great, Rich. How are you doing? I'm doing great. And just so you understand, you know, I love you. So we're applauding because we do that for all guests. It's not just us clapping with you, Jason. You know what I mean? I appreciate that, nonetheless. Were you aware of that whole clapping thing while you were coaching and people talking about always seeing you clapping on the sideline, Jason? Were you aware of that conversation?

3:50Yeah. Somebody made me aware of that, yeah.

3:54Rich Eisen:Is that just part of your DNA? Has that always been part of what you always used to do on the sideline there? Well, enthusiasm is the oxygen of the soul, and I think that's an important part of coaching. Some of the best coaches I've ever been around. We used to always do an imitation of Jimmy Johnson clapping. So you got it. So Jimmy was a clapper too? Oh, yeah. He used to have this great clap where he'd clap way out in front of his hands like this. But, you know, so. You know, I think that's a big part. I think that's a big part of playing. You know, we're doing this leadership podcast. And one of the things we talk about a lot is the energy of the leader pervades the group.

4:37So, you know, if you're positive with players when good things happen and when you're positive with them, you know, when bad things happen, help them get through it. You know, I think those are good things to allow them to play well.

4:48Rich Eisen:Is there a through line? Because, again, future episodes with Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Dan Campbell, Joe Madden of the Cubs, Joe Girardi as well, just to name a handful of them, a through line. Was there a general sense that you picked up, a consensus about coaching, managing, Jason, at all? Oh, I think there are so many things that I've learned from this experience. And, you know, the big takeaway for me is how generous these guys are. They're obviously the best at what they do. So many of them have won Super Bowls or World Series, won championships. And, you know, at the core of them, they're just coaches.

5:31They want to help players get better. They want to build teams that they're all proud to be a part of. And for me, that's what I always thought about when I was coaching. So they were really fun conversations to have. I think the big takeaway for me is each of these guys is their own person, each of these men and women. And they were influenced by so many people coming up. You know, great coaches, great players, great teams that they've been around. But at the end of it, they bring who they are to the table. And there's an authenticity to them. And, you know, there's a humility to them. We talk a lot about some of the challenging times they had and what they learned from those experiences.

6:15And they share those stories. And, you know, one of the things that I learned and I've learned in TV is that people just don't want to hear platitudes. As the great Fred Guideli said, enough of the platitudes. So, you know, people want stories and they want points to the story. And when I coached, I used to always tell our players stories. And then, you know, hopefully they remember them. And then, OK, why am I telling you this? and that's a big part of what these shows have been is uh is these coaches taking us through different experiences they've had different influences they've had and sharing those things with us and then hey what did i learn from that what was the lesson learned from that experience good better and different so uh you know we do these they're about an hour long and i tell every one of them i could go for three four five hours with them because i learned so much yeah a coach

7:05Rich Eisen:to coach podcast.com uh to check out again uh coach to coach or wherever you get your podcast jason garrett here on the rich eisen show you just said uh seconds ago um that you used to tell stories to players to try and you know i guess coach them up or give them perspective what story did you tell dak prescott in 2016 when suddenly he was thrust to the fore of everything for your team, Jason? Well, you know, I probably learned as much from him that he learned from us. And I'll tell you that story. You know, he came in, we drafted him in the fourth round. And my thought when we drafted him was, hey, this guy can be the next quarterback of the Cowboys.

7:47There's no doubt in my mind about that. But my biggest concern was the initial transition, because he had been a gun quarterback, a lot of quarterback runs at Mississippi State. He showed us all the things that you wanted, both as a player and as a person. But I felt like there was going to be some time for him to transition into what we're doing because we were under center as well as in the gun. And we did some different things that he hadn't done in school. And then, you know, Kellen Moore gets hurt and Tony Romo gets hurt. He gets thrust into it and we lose the first game And then we went 11 in a row.

8:22And, you know, probably eight weeks into that stretch, I remember asking him, I said, I said, Dak, how are you doing this? How are you getting these guys to play for you? Because the guys on our team absolutely loved playing for him. And it was obvious that they were playing for him. And I said, I never see you make any speech or anything like that. You're never like hollering at guys or whatever things that you anticipate leaders to do. and he said no coach I can't do that um you know the biggest thing I've tried to do is develop relationships with the guys and it's easier on the offensive side of the ball more difficult on the defensive side of the ball but he would play chess with some of the defensive guys and I can remember at least a few times we'd be in a staff meeting on the second floor of the building and uh there'd be some racket coming coming from the locker room three or four hours after practice and I'd go down there like what the hell's going on in here and they there were 15 20 guys in the locker room playing hamper basketball with this giant tennis ball you bounce it and then it lands into the into the hamper and Prescott was the guy kind of engineering the whole thing and uh you know his big thing was I have to develop relationships with these guys I have to take time with them and once you develop that relationship that's when they want to play for you and uh to To me, that was a great lesson that I learned from a rookie quarterback.

9:47Rich Eisen:No kidding. That's a great story, Jason. That's for sure. And not to bring up any bad memories, but I've always been curious, what did the officials tell you on the sideline after Dez Bryant caught it but then didn't in that playoff game prior to Dak's time? Obviously, Romo threw that one and your decision to go for it and the whole thing, Jason. Yeah, it was really interesting to me. Dean Blandino obviously was the guy back in the booth at the time, and Gene Steratore was the game official. And as you remember, it was called a catch on the field. And, you know, there was always a question of, okay, how long does someone have to possess the ball in order for it to be a catch?

10:33And if I heard the official say it once, I literally heard him say it a thousand times. You know, it was time enough to make a football move, time enough to make a football move. And then they'd be very clear with you. They say they don't even have to make a football move. It's just they just need time enough to make a football move. And so that was ringing in my head as I saw Des Bryant catch this ball in about the six yard line in the air and switch the ball and get one, two, three down. Take the ball here, lunge and extend it to the goal line. And then the ball comes out. And I reminded them of that.

11:11I said, time enough to make a football move. The guy made eight of them on his way down. It was one of the greatest catches and one of the big moments that I've ever been around. And it was such a great play. And again, it was called a catch on the field. And for them to come back and overturn it, clear and obvious, I think, was the standard at the time. And for them to say it was clear and obvious that this was not a catch and to proactively overturn it, it was hard for me to understand. So I was trying to make all these points to Gene about time enough to make a football move. Look at all the moves he made, all of that.

11:50It was called a catch on the field. There's no clear and obvious to overturn this. And sure enough, they did. And, you know, I think it came from the precedent of the Calvin Johnson play. And they had boxed themselves into a corner about going to the ground and all of that. But he literally had it for like five and a half yards and did eight different things with the football before he hit the ground. And then, as you remember, you know, they tried to justify the decision for at least three or four years afterwards. And the whole definition of a catch just became a real mess until they finally reestablished what the rule was.

12:28Officials to this day deny that it was a catch, but I'll go to my grave saying it. And the one big regret that I have about that whole situation was after the game, I was asked the question. And, you know, we always talked about no excuses, no explanations. And you just take full responsibility. And I said, hey, you know, that was one play in a game. We had 56 minutes before and four minutes after, and we didn't get the job done. And my regret, I don't regret saying that and sharing that, but my regret was not recognizing the throw that Tony Romo made and the catch that Des Bryant made. because I thought those plays were one for the ages.

13:06It was reminiscent of Bradshaw to Lynn Swan over Mark Washington. It was that kind of a catch. And I didn't fully recognize that and let the world know how I felt about the play they made.

13:20Rich Eisen:Did Jerry make a bunch of calls to the league office in the aftermath? Anything like that? Oh, I have no idea. I mean, once it's over, it's over. I mean... Although my Dallas Cowboy friend and fan and colleague in the corner has been shaking his head this entire time. You know, I mean, I'm having PTSD now. I'm thinking about that. I don't know. I'm hoping you agree with what I'm saying. Every single word, Coach. Every single word. Des caught it. And if I live a thousand years for a thousand years, I'm going to go to my grave and say the ball was caught. And it could have changed everything for you, for the Cowboys.

13:58Rich Eisen:You know, it just stinks. It was a remarkable play that he made. And Tony made a great throw. Like you said, it was a fourth down, and he saw the one-on-one outside and gave that guy an opportunity. Nobody goes and gets the ball like Des Bryant. So it's a shame. He outgrown manned another grown man. Well, I mean, I think it is fitting, Jason, though, that you mentioned Calvin Johnson here. And listen, I know we're talking first ballot Hall of Famer, the whole nine yards with him. but I just think that the league did not account in the catch rule for somebody so physically talented that you could gain a first, an amount of yards for a first down 10 yards in the process of grabbing it and then going to the goal line.

14:45Rich Eisen:Like he, he, he was such a physical freak and, and there's now so many others in the league right now who can do something like that, that I just don't know if the league accounted for that sort of special ability making a play like Dez had in the catch rule interpretation. Yeah, no doubt. And just go back and look at it. Look at it in full speed. Look at it in slow motion. However you look at it, it's like, damn, what a play that he made. You know, he was that kind of an athlete, like you said. And not only was he so gifted physically, he was an instinctive football player. And I think what he did, changing the ball and doing all the different things he did on that play, it showed his greatness.

15:28And unfortunately, the ball wobbled at the end. But the other part of this thing, and I mentioned it earlier, that is still hard for me to understand is just the idea that it was called a catch on the field. And for them to be so aggressive in overturning it, it certainly wasn't clear and obvious. And it's not clear and obvious to this day.

15:49Rich Eisen:Well, I guess, you know, you and Charles Woodson will have something in common in the fact that you'll never be shaken from your belief about a play. Like Charles will always say that was a fumble on the sack of Tom Brady. You know, the tuck rule and Des caught it are just part of, you know, NFL lexicons. And I appreciate you being so open to talk about it here. What do you make of that? I agree with Charles, by the way, Rich. Yeah, listen, you know, and Patriots fans would push back. That's why they call that the snow game, not the tuck rule game like the rest of everybody else on planet Earth.

16:22Rich Eisen:There's my Patriot fan on camera. All right. What do you make of the Cowboys this year? Because I really like the changes they've made on defense. And the offense comes back intact. And Dak appears to have a chip. And I do like, you know, listen, when Brian Schottenheimer took over, everybody kind of thought Jerry has a guy that he can steamroll and push around a little bit. And he's proven he's his own man. I kind of really like what's going on in Dallas, Jason. That's not to influence the jury here, but what do you think going into this season? Oh, I think there's so many positive things about it.

16:58You know, I think last year was challenging for them for a lot of different reasons. You know, the cloud of Micah Parsons hanging over that team for so long, I don't think gave them a chance to have the defense they wanted. And, you know, I still think it's a real discussion as to whether or not they should have let that guy out of the building. You know, for so many years, we talked about, okay, how do you build a championship team? You got to get the quarterback first. But then what you talk about next is the elite pass rusher. And how do you get that guy? How do you get the guy that affects the quarterback?

17:33And when you have one in the building who's so disruptive like Michael was, it's hard for me to think that your team's getting better by letting him go. but you know they they certainly got some things for him the two first round picks and and Kenny Clark and they're building around that and I think they've made a lot of good decisions on defense to solidify Quinnen Williams you know Kenny Clark the draft this year I mean I think they've solidified the defense more than it's been in the last few years I do think you have to objectively analyze what happened last year you know they won seven out of 17 games and many of those wins came against teams that weren't very good you know they beat the commanders a couple times they beat the giants the jets the the raiders uh they beat the chiefs in a down year the one signature win was philadelphia so that was a good win for them but they lost to arizona they lost a number of games, I think five or six by double digits.

18:37So for me, it starts with competing the right way. That's a mantra they have around there right now. And I think they have to live that out. And I know the guy at the quarterback position will live that out because like we talked earlier, he's a special, special guy. But I do think they've made some decisions to solidify the defense. I think they'll be better on that side of the ball. And hopefully hopefully the offense continues. You know, there's a lot of firepower over there, not only at the skill position, but they have three first round picks on that offensive line, an elite quarterback, a runner who's revitalized his career, and the receivers outside are excellent.

19:16So important for them to get off to a good start and get going, and then hopefully play the way that they want to play. You know, compete every day. They got to compete on Sundays for three hours. I think that's going to be the biggest thing I'm looking for.

19:31Rich Eisen:And what is the last thing for you again, Jason Garrett? And I'd love to chat with you in August as well, prior to the season and prior to you going on Football Night in America on NBC. Is Sean McVay's challenge? Listen, what Nick Saban calls rat poison and things like what I would do, and now you're part of the media would say. 17-0 is what people are already talking about with Myles Garrett now on this team that returns everyone from an NFC Championship game season short of the Super Bowl that they could have made. And Aaron Donald could be in the ether too, Jason. What is John McVay's challenge, do you think?

20:17Well, I worked for Nick Saban for two years and I heard a lot of those rat poison speeches. Nice. Yeah, you know, I think Sean's challenge is probably similar to challenges that we had in the 90s, you know, with the Cowboys Super Bowl team. There's a lot of noise around the team. And, you know, typically when people talk about noise, it's negative. But, you know, that positive noise is a challenge as well. When you've won a Super Bowl or won a couple of them, there's all of that stuff that you have to contend with. But, you know, I would go back to just the program that Sean has built out there.

20:53obviously a fantastic coach and a fantastic leader and i think he he understands and has his team understanding the importance of uh what nick saban would call process you know get the right people together and do things the right way each and every day and focus on that and the results will come and so so i think lock in on that double down on that i do think the guys he has on his team are the right kind of guys who will do anything they can to win and uh and when they're focused on that rather than individual accolades, I think you have a chance. And it's certainly a talented team. He's a fantastic coach.

21:30It's an amazing program. I think the biggest thing you do is you focus on yourself. I'm going to give you all the coach speak, but this is what you got to do. Focus on yourself and focus on each day. And there's going to be a lot of noise over the course of five or six months and 17 games. When they win, it won't be they won by enough. And when they lose, the sky will be falling. But you just fight through all that stuff. You eliminate that noise. You focus on yourselves and what you need to do each day. And I think Sean has built a program based on those things. No doubt they'll continue to do it.

22:03Rich Eisen:Well, I look forward to seeing Nick Saban on your pod, Jason. Yeah, we'll get that done. There you go. Go to Saban. It might be a special two-hour pod. There you go. There you go. Coach to Coach Podcast. Get it where you get your podcasts. Go to coach2coachpodcast.com. Jason, a delight. Thanks for having the time and taking the time to be here. Appreciate it. I always enjoy being with you, Rich. Keep it up, man. Right back at you. That's Jason Gannon right here. Check him out on the NBC as well. Hey, man. Always and forever. Isn't it amazing? I just watched that play like 20 times. Glandino back in New York and Steratore on the field and they're both rules analysts right now for Fox and CBS respectively.

22:46Rich Eisen:I just remember watching it. I'm like, okay he's gonna go for it here and oh my god they're gonna they're gonna really go for it fourth and two and two right and the the cojones to roll those dice amazing throw by tony yeah and like i just remember hey he caught it we were on the this is 2015 so we were on the air here this show existed and i because i remember saying we just don't see receivers who can catch the ball at the 10, take three steps and reach for the end zone. Yeah. And that's considered the process. Right. Like that's not a process. Right. That's, as he said, made eight football moves.

23:27Rich Eisen:Reminds me of the line when you said here that it was holding on the Giants that Eli Manning threw the ball for the helmet catch. And his response was like, holding, they didn't block anybody. And he's like, he's like process. He had eight football moves. and he kind of did, you know. Oh, go watch the play. I mean, I can post it on our Twitter. I've watched it more than I've watched anything in my life. Like I said, I just watched it a dozen times. It's unbelievable. The athleticism, first off, unbelievable throw by Tony. The athleticism by Dez to go up there, jump over the defender, come down with it.

24:03Rich Eisen:Holding the ball. Then stretch out for the goal line. He was at like the foot. That's when it came. He was at like the foot line and it popped out, but then it falls in his lap while he's in the end zone. It was unbelievable. Like I said, he outgrown man, another grown man. Yes, Brian was a beast. And that started a years-long process to get the language right. That, again, didn't do anything for us. The whole idea of, like, if there's 100 people in a bar and 100 people think it's a catch, it should be a catch. Much like Family Feud. What a sliding door moment, too, for the kids. You know what I most remember about that day is my goddaughter was about five months old, and I was holding her, and she had just gone to sleep on my shoulder.

24:41Rich Eisen:Oh, as the play happened? And I couldn't, I stood there like holding, I didn't want to wake her up because she had just gone to sleep. Oh my goodness. And I just stood there like, I will never, ever, ever forget that. I'm pretty sure I watched that at a bar with Del Tufo. My goodness. Thank goodness you didn't drop it. Oh, definitely not. Definitely not. When you run a small business, you don't just do the job. You're also the hiring manager, the payroll department, the benefits team, usually all before lunch. Gusto takes a few of those off your plate quickly and seamlessly. Gusto is an online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses.