Hour 3: Mike Vurkunov, The Athletic Basketball Reporter

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1:00Rich Eisen:This is the Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody. Can't get enough of the Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck. You can find us everywhere. Watch us weekdays on Disney Plus from noon to 3 Eastern. Miss the show? We've got a podcast so you can listen anytime. But here's the best part. Our YouTube channel. Subscribe at youtube.com slash richeisenshow and you'll never miss a moment. Now, on with the show. Oh my God, you guys are my favorites. This is The Rich Eisen Show. Rich Eisen. I know what I'm talking about. That's the headline. The Rich Eisen Show. With guest host Dan Schwartzman. I mean, honestly, he's brilliant.

1:43Rich Eisen:He's a poet. Dan Schwartzman. Oh my gosh. Live from The Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Dan Schwartzman.

2:02Rich Eisen:Maybe a poet, not so much. I cannot rhyme to save my life. Frankly, I don't even like poetry. That's why I'm in Sports Talk Radio. Van Schwartzman in for Rich Eisen, the Rich Eisen Show on a Black Friday. On ESPN Radio, the ESPN app, and Sirius XM Channel 80. And it's been a fun couple hours. We have a whole other hour to go leading up into really what? A heck of a football game. eagles and the bears we talked about philly to end last hour do want to give the bears a little love here because they deserve it i mean here's an eight and three team caleb williams has had a very nice season you know i liked caleb williams coming out of usc i thought clearly he was the number one pick and i think you know last year was a struggle as most young quarterbacks struggle this year it's been a bit of a different story better coaching right now there and they are a surprising 8-3 team.

2:56Rich Eisen:Don't think they're that great, frankly. I don't. But this year in the NFL, you don't have to be great if you want to win games. And for the Bears, I have a buddy who's been a Bear fan for his entire life, and it's been a struggle, right? The Bears, by the way, if you want to talk about... And look, as a Jet fan, I look at the quarterback position, and from Joe Namath to now, it's been a mishmash and a mess. The Bears have been even worse, right? Think about the quarterbacks the Bears have had. I'm going to go back to a guy named Sid Luckman back in the day. You're talking, what, like the 40s, right?

3:31Rich Eisen:Sid Luckman. And Jim McMahon, they won a Super Bowl with Jim McMahon, and no offense to Jim McMahon, he's not why they won the Super Bowl. They won the Super Bowl because of Walter Payton. They won the Super Bowl because they had a dominating defense with Mike Singletary, Richard Dent, Wilbur Marshall, Steve McMichael. It was a dominant defense. It was the formula that won a Super Bowl for the Baltimore Ravens in the early 2000s, a dominant running game, and a dominant defense. Not as much a quarterback play. Flacco, though, did do a lot. Don't get me wrong. But it was more because, again, because of – excuse me, Dilfer, again, won that Super Bowl, the one I'm thinking of, I think.

4:17Right?

4:18Rich Eisen:Was it Dilfer? Who won that Super Bowl when the Ravens beat the Giants early 2000s? That was, yeah, maybe it was. I think it was. I may be completely wrong. It was Brian Billick, I think, was the head coach. And they beat the Giants. And they had Ray Lewis and dominated. And I believe, maybe it was Dilfer. Yeah, I think it was Trent Dilfer, who was the Super Bowl quarterback. They didn't win because of Trent Dilfer. They won because of a running game, and they won because they had a dominant defense. Same with the Bears. Bears have tried to fill that position, right, all these years. Look at the guys they have drafted.

4:58Rich Eisen:Cade McNown, guys like this. No one worked out at that position. Jay Cutler, they made that trade with Denver, gave up a boatload of picks, two first-round picks. He was okay. Not great. Not enough to win. They get the top pick. They draft Caleb Williams, and I do think they now have the person that will potentially bring them back to the heights they had in the mid-1980s. It's been that long. They had that one-year run with Lovie Smith success there. But Caleb Williams, I am a fan. I know people, the jury is out. Some people think he's soft. He's kind of an alternative type of guy, right? He's kind of like Cam Newton in that sense, kind of an alternative type of guy.

5:37Rich Eisen:He's got other interests. He is progressive, I guess. Is that the term these days, progressive? I think he paints his fingernails, things like that, right? He's out there a little bit. And when it comes to football, it's a very interesting dynamic where people think you have to live, breathe, and die football. That's what it is. If you have other interests in life, it's a detriment to your football career. I'll tell you a quick story. I've worked with a bunch of NFL guys. and they will tell you that if a player comes into the league and he's highly educated, for instance, or he has this love of something else, right?

6:16Rich Eisen:Maybe he loves his music or something else. That's looked upon as being a negative in the NFL. In those circles, that's a negative. Like, what do you mean you have other interests outside of football? Nuh-uh. You got to live and breathe football 24-7. That's your job. That's your life. and guys who don't live in that school of thought are kind of shunned to a point or questioned. And Caleb Williams falls into that category a bit. People forget the talent, how good he is, how it comes to him naturally. He's a generational talent in that aspect. I'm not saying he's a generational player, but he is a talent.

6:56Rich Eisen:It doesn't mean he will evolve to be a generational player. There's a difference. But it comes down to where he is now seeing success. The organization is now seeing success. Back off a little bit. Let them grow. They have talent there now, finally offensively. They will add to that talent over the next couple of years. It will be a different story. And you will see success in Chicago because they have the right guy at the helm, at coach, and also at quarterback. So I gave the Chicago Bears some love, deservingly so, It's going to be a good matchup in Philly. Eagles, Bears, one team's going to be 9-3, other's going to be 8-5.

7:40Rich Eisen:Still, playoff hunt, both teams looking very good as the season goes on. I want to switch gears here because there's something happening in the NBA right now that's not being talked about enough. And that's because it's football season in a lot of people's minds. I'm one of these guys, too, where it's like, when it's baseball season and the NFL kicks off in September, I say, no, no, come on. It's still baseball season. It's still nice outside. Football's a cold-weather sport. It's too nice outside. I'm still a baseball guy at that point. Then it switches to football. And then the NBA tips off and the NHL begins.

8:15Rich Eisen:I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not ready for this yet. I'm not ready for hockey yet. I'm not ready for basketball yet. It's still the NFL. And when baseball starts off and guys are all bundled up in wool, I remember the World Series where they had the earmuffs built into the caps. Remember that? It was Phillies and Tampa Bay. it was at 08 I think it was and I'm like what is this ridiculous you can't be playing baseball in cold weather like this but when it's still cold and baseball's going on in spring training I get happy because I know warm weather is right around the corner but I'm still not ready for baseball yet so the NBA season is 19 games in right now you're talking there about a quarter of the way through the NBA season and maybe this is because it's happening in Oklahoma City and not in Los Angeles or New York or Boston or Chicago, a big city.

9:04Rich Eisen:You're talking about one of the smallest markets in the entire league, actually entire professional sports in America. They're not as many small markets as Oklahoma City is. It's one of the smallest markets out there. But OKC, the defending NBA champs, are doing something right now that's never been done before. They're 18-1. That's happened before. But they are winning right now on an average of 16.5 points. They are beating their opponents per game through 19 games on average by 16.5 points. That means every single game they play is a blowout win. If you're in Vegas, if you're an odds maker, and you're giving somebody minus 15, people think you're out of your mind.

10:04Rich Eisen:But yeah, with OKC, actually, that's a good bet. You take the over. Unbelievable. You know, and what's also incredible to me is that OKC's been winning all these games and dominating their opponent, and they're missing one of their top players. Jalen Williams is making his season debut today. This is an all-NBA, all-defensive player as well, who has yet to play this year because of an injury and surgery. From back in July, had pins removed in October, He is making his season debut today on a team that is 18-1 and dominating the entire NBA. It's not even funny how good they are. They are head and shoulders right now, the best team in the NBA.

11:04Rich Eisen:Head and shoulders. Not even close. And when you look at Jalen Williams, you're not talking about some player who is, you know, 12, 13 points. does a nice job on defense. You're talking about a superstar player who's young. It's year four for Jalen Williams. He's averaging 20. Last year, he averaged 20 points a game. Six rebounds, four or five assists, whatever it is. These are superstar numbers when you talk about adding the defense that he brings to the court. So he comes back, and it's now just getting silly, right? Who in their right mind can beat OKC in the NBA right now. Let's look at the Eastern Conference.

11:49Rich Eisen:Detroit, by the way, leading the Eastern Conference. They're 15-3. You know what? They're not OKC. Toronto's number two. Not OKC. Miami, New York, Cleveland. Not OKC. Western Conference. Lakers, Denver, Houston, San Antonio. Not OKC. It's as if OKC is there and then there's everybody else. you got this nice little mix of teams lakers nuggets houston san antonio toronto detroit miami right good teams good players and then you have this one team that's just far and away they are the christmas ornament on top of the tree everybody else is the tree they are the star on top of that tree far and away better winning 95 of their games unbeatable the only thing that's going to stop OKC from repeating his champions right now is injuries.

12:47Rich Eisen:Talent-wise, no one's matching up. No one. So is that fun to watch? Not really. When you know one team is that much better than everybody else, is it fun to watch? Maybe you root against them because you want to see more parity, more competition. But here's what it comes down to. Okay, this is why it's not fun. in a one game scenario could denver if nikola yokich has an incredible game can they beat okay sure they can beat them can san antonio if uh wamby has some ridiculous game yeah they can beat them eastern conference team maybe in one game can beat them but in any series five games seven games whatever it is you're not going to win three games against this team you're not going to win four games against this team it's not happening that's why it's not fun one one game here they're sure they can lose do you know what what a mind-boggling upset it would be for okc to lose a playoff series like an actual series wow you want to talk about an upset you want to talk about vegas having to pay out a lot if anybody even bet against them they're just not going to lose this i don't know it's not competitive to me it's not everybody else is okay pretty good and then you just have one superstar team and sam presti what an incredible job he has done you know it's interesting because this is a guy that was there for the first group of talent that people thought potentially could win a championship that was Kevin Durant that was Russell Westbrook James Harden remember they had to get rid of Harden when he was just really starting to click into his prime they had to get rid of him they traded him because they couldn't keep him salary wise Presti tore that team down he got rid of all the top talent there down to the studs, tore it down, and rebuilt him because they had their version of the NFL's Herschel Walker trade, right?

15:03Rich Eisen:Where the Cowboys traded Herschel Walker to the Vikings for a ton of picks, and if you look at who they brought back in those picks, it was a who's who of talent, and the Cowboys became a dynasty because of that one trade and great drafting. Well, he got rid of Paul George and got Shea Gilgus Alexander, and the rest is history. And they've built around a superstar MVP with more talent and then under-the-radar signings as well. And that's why you have this team that's just so good compared to, well, everybody else right now, and it's that case. We're going to talk a little bit more NBA. Who can truly compete with OKC?

15:47Rich Eisen:See, also, Lakers and Dallas. Luka is going to go for 80 tonight against his old team to just show him how dumb they were to get rid of him. And that trade is just not aging. By the way, when it happened, it wasn't good. And it's not aging well at all for Dallas. The Lakers are winning. Dallas is not. Our buddy Mike Vorkanov, the athletic basketball reporter, he's going to join us next to break it all down for us. We are in our number three. Dan Schwartzman in for Rich. It is the Rich Eisen show on ESPN radio, the ESPN app and Sirius XM channel 80. Rich Eisen here with some advice. If high interest credit card debt is grinding you down, it might be time to call an audible with a SoFi personal loan.

16:30Rich Eisen:It consolidates your debt into one low monthly payment with no fees required. And with as soon as the same day funding, you can make the right play fast. Call an audible on your debt today at SoFi.com slash debt play. Loans originated by SoFi Bank N.A. Member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. N.M. L.S. 696891. Fast funds terms apply at SoFi.com slash debt play. While the world watches the stars of the FIFA World Cup, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent. Future stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Because next doesn't wait for an invitation. And neither do we. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.

17:06Rich Eisen:We did it when we made advanced safety standard on every vehicle. than engineered EVs with ultra-fast charging capability. And we're still doing it every day because the future isn't some far-off concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Rich Eisen here, and summer's here too. And that means it's travel season. My favorite summer trip last year was to Sao Paulo, Brazil. With so many fans traveling for the Los Angeles against Kansas City game, they got to see how lively the city is. I love the culture and the amazing food that I'm still craving. Those memories remind everyone that it's that time of year to plan a little getaway.

17:44Rich Eisen:And that's why summer has a way of turning weekends into big events. One minute, it's a normal week. And then all of a sudden, a huge concert, sporting event, or festival brings people in from all over. And when that happens, visitors start looking for places to stay all across your city. So if you're already planning a summer trip of your own, you could list your space on Airbnb and earn a little extra cash while you're away. doesn't have to be some big year-round commitment. It's about making the most of a busy weekend when your place would just be empty otherwise. I can tell you, people love finding a place that helps them feel connected to the city that they're visiting.

18:20Rich Eisen:If your city's about to have a big summer moment, this is a great time to maximize your space. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host.

18:36Rich Eisen:The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. I don't even know where to begin. Dan Schwartzman in for Rich Eisen, the Rich Eisen Show. Keep this going, by the way. ESPN Radio, ESPN app and SiriusXM Channel 80, presented by Progressive Insurance. They make the claims process easy so you can get back on the road in no time. It's why over 43 million drivers trust Progressive. See for yourself at Progressive.com. Now, I do have to ask, is this little John doing Christmas music? Affirmative. How did he go from get low to this? Did the career get low and he had to do something to bring it back up and Christmas was it?

19:17Yeah, I think he got low in the totem pole and got sucked into the song.

19:20Rich Eisen:I honestly have to say, this isn't bad. When I found it in the system a number of years ago, I was like, this is my go-to song now. Can you text me this? not the song but like the name because it's so stunning i will have to play it for people little john did a christmas special who knew little john did a christmas special maybe eminem did one we just don't know about it go look in the system or now you find this whacked out stuff in the system there's got to be more in there my goodness i know like michael buble does it but i did not expect little john nba season rolling along almost a quarter of the way through as crazy as it sounds lakers and dallas the luca game and we're now finding out they're not going to play on the wacky nba cup court tonight because there's apparently a slippery issue there we've heard some players complain about that it's going to be uh the court's being sent back to the vendor for repairs and they're going to play on their regular court apparently but the game will of course occur mike vornikov the athletic basketball reporter joining us here on the rich eisen show And, Mike, first off, happy Thanksgiving to you and the family, and I hope you had a great turkey day.

20:30Rich Eisen:I do have to ask you this, Mike. The Oklahoma City Thunder are 18-1, and they get the best Thanksgiving present of anybody. Jalen Williams comes back. I mean, come on, they're dominating, Mike, and they get back an all-NBA player. Does anybody in this league stand a chance against them? It's hard for me to make a case that they do. they have an air of inevitability right now with how good they've been without Jalen Williams 18-1, winning every game on average on average by 16.5 points it's an insane start to the season that they've had and sure now they get their second best player back who they just didn't have for the first 19 games and didn't matter but is this fun for you Mike?

21:16Rich Eisen:you're obviously an NBA guy to have one team that is so far and away better than anybody else. Is it fun? I mean, I think so. I like to see great teams. I don't know that anyone's complaining when it was the Jordan Bulls that were awesome, that turn of the century Lakers team, the Warriors, the Heat there for a while. I like to see people who are at the very best of their abilities or teams that are at the very best that they can be. And so, you know, I think it's fun because you get to see the amazing teams. And then you also get to see, like, okay, We think the Thunder will repeat. We think that they are inevitable.

21:55But, you know, sometimes they're not. The Warriors won 73 games and didn't win a title. Thanos said he was inevitable and an Avenger, and ultimately he lost, right? That's the lesson that we can sometimes take from this, is that what we believe to be true sometimes isn't.

22:11Rich Eisen:But, Mike, you know what? I said this a little bit ago here on the show that maybe in a one-game scenario they can lose, although they haven't really, 18-1. But can a team beat them three times or four times to win a series? That's where I have a problem with this. It's like, yeah, it's fun because you either love them or at this point maybe you hate them because they are so successful as champions and dominating to an even higher degree this year. You root against them because of that. But no one, in my opinion, can win a series against them because you can't win three or four games against this team, Mike.

22:41Rich Eisen:It's impossible. I mean, I kind of disagree. I mean, I think last year we saw two teams push them to the very brink, right? The Nuggets and the Pacers took them to Game 7. We don't know what Game 7 would have been like for Indianapolis if Tyrese Halliburton hadn't torn his Achilles. I think they were up at halftime, right? So they were 24 minutes away from winning the title. The Nuggets are better this year with the team around Jokic. Jokic, somehow, I don't know how this is humanly possible, but he seems better than he was last year or the year before that. And so I think in a seven-game series, the Thunder showed some real cracks last year in their frailties.

23:23Obviously, these are all relative, right? But for a team with championship aspirations, they showed some holes there. And so they seem better. But are those still exploitable? Can a team like Denver with the absolute best player in the league beat them and take them to seven games? I could see that. I think that we saw it last year. I think we could see it again this year if they get the right matchup, let alone injury issues or whatever else might happen.

23:49Rich Eisen:Mike Vorkunov from The Athletic joining us here on the Rich Eisen Show. Dan Schwartzman in for Rich on this Black Friday. You mentioned Jokic, and is it even possible that he's actually better this year than he's been even last year and the MVP seasons as well? Now, we know he is probably the best player in the league right now, and I have this fun argument with people, and maybe it's a little early, But at some point, you have to start thinking about, is he one of the best players in history? Where does he rank? And what's he playing toward at this point, Mike? It's kind of a fun argument and difficult to do because of different eras.

24:21Rich Eisen:But when you have a guy at seven feet tall doing what he does, passing like a point guard, rebounding and scoring in bunches as well, you've got to ask yourself, what does it mean in terms of long-term and where he ranks? So, Mike, I'm going to throw it to you because we're having fun on a Friday here. How quickly is he moving up that list of greatness? I mean to me I think the way that he's playing now and the accolades that he already had like I don't know how he doesn't end up being one of the top 15 to 20 players ever he's got three MVPs already this year he could win a fourth I think he's got a few second place finishes he's got at least one title and he's only 30 so you know he might get another one or two over the course of his career and uh this is a guy who just now routinely averages essentially like 30 point triple doubles you know he's he's at 30 13 and 11 so far this year and is even more efficient as a shooter um yeah i mean i think it's it's clear he's one of the best players of all time it's really now just like how how high up uh does he go really like how do you compare him to someone like a, you know, to a Tim Duncan or, you know, maybe like a tier below, like a Jerry West or someone like that.

25:33I think if, you know, the Athletic did its rankings in the top 75 players of all time for the NBA's 75th anniversary, I think if we did that again now, I'm pretty certain Jokic would be in the top 15.

25:43Rich Eisen:You know, Mike, you brought up Tim Duncan, and let's look at the comps here. And what differentiates Jokic, I think, from any other big man is the passing, right? Guys can rebound. Guys can score. But it's his vision on the court where he is behind the back passes. He is the greatest passing big man I think I've ever seen, frankly, maybe in history. But isn't that what's kind of separating him from other big men is that ability that you just don't expect from a guy his size? Yeah, I mean, he's unique that way. He's a point guard. You know, he is the Nuggets point guard. He's the guy who runs the offense.

26:18He's the one who facilitates most of it. You're right that his passing is probably his greatest attribute and averaging 11 assists a game and his size. Anyone averaging 11 assists is pretty crazy, but him doing it is another world apart. And yeah, that's kind of what will probably make him go down as a legend is just his passing ability, and that's his separator. And I think that's what makes the Nuggets run is that because he can score, but he can make it work for everyone else. And I don't think we've ever seen a player like that in NBA history.