Hour 3: Power Ranking Super Bowl LX’s Top Storylines, plus Actor Ted McGinley In-Studio

0:00Rich Eisen:We're leaving today and entering a world of Mickey Mouse waving, princess meeting and greeting, lightsaber clashing, the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror dropping, Banshee flying, Space Mountain launching, galaxy rewinding, what's the whole deck with galaxy rewinding, fireworks igniting, World of Other Worlds. For whatever you love, infinite worlds await at the most magical place on Earth. Walt Disney World Resort. Get in the game with the college branded Venmo Debit Card. Wreck your team with every tap and earn up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash, a new rewards program from Venmo. No monthly fee, no minimum balance, just school pride and spending power.

0:45Rich Eisen:Get in the game and sign up for the Venmo Debit Card at Venmo.com slash college card. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Select schools available. Venmo Stash terms and exclusions apply at Venmo.me slash stash terms. Max$100 cash back per month. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody. Can't get enough of the Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck. You can find us everywhere. Watch us weekdays on Disney Plus from noon to 3 Eastern. Miss the show? We've got a podcast so you can listen anytime. But here's the best part. Our YouTube channel. Subscribe at youtube.com slash Rich Eisen Show and you'll never miss a moment.

1:26Rich Eisen:Now, on with the show. Get out of here. You've got to be kidding me. This is the Rich Eisen Show. Bill Belichick, he will not be a first ballot pro football Hall of Fame head coach. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Earlier on the show, 49ers fullback Kyle Juszczyk, Ravens head coach Jesse Minter. Coming up, actor Ted McGinley. And now, it's Rich Eisen. Our number three of the Rich Eisen Show is on the air. Ted McGinley is in our green room. He's coming out in about 20 minutes time. One of our favorites from an outstanding show shrinking on Apple TV. Season three has arrived, and it's just a delight.

2:16Rich Eisen:It's all kinds of awesome, and he's great in it. And the cast is amazing. Jason Segel and Harrison Ford, just to name two. 844-204-RICH is the number to dial here on the show. We'll take your phone calls if we have time. Great chats already in this program. Kyle Juszczyk was great in our one, right? I mean, it was great catching up with the San Francisco 49er. Sounds like he's rooting hard for the Patriots. Does not like Seattle. Said they could celebrate wherever they want. Do you think that he really meant when he said that? No, no. Okay. And doesn't like Seattle at all. I got that. Picked up on that, huh?

2:56Rich Eisen:I get that. That they do a lot of yapping. He said we do too, meaning his teammates. And then Jesse Minter, the new head coach of the Baltimore Ravens, kind enough to join us. As I mentioned, Ted McGinley's about to hit our stage here in Southern California. You know, I'm not an X's and O's guy. That's why I have the experts of the all 22 film-watching people. You know, it all comes down to matchups. I get it. And I can see it sometimes. And I can break down a cover, too, if you really force me to do it. I can see it. You know, but when it comes to my area of expertise. You're a storyteller. I'm a storyteller.

3:43Rich Eisen:Narrative. I'm a tapestry weaver. I connect dots. That's what you do. I place things in perspective. I am all about the narratives and storylines. And so every year I do this. we're going to normally do it on a Wednesday because it's a power ranking but yesterday we were too busy talking about as I mentioned Bill Belichick getting hosed and so I'm doing it today I do this every year the week before we go to the Super Bowl and I give you my power rankings of the top Super Bowl storylines you're going to get sick and tired of hearing about before toe meets ball. So top 10, if you will, power-ranked Super Bowl 60 storylines you're going to get sick and tired of hearing about the most hidden.

4:33Rich Eisen:Power rankings. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Power rankings. All right, everybody, here we go. Top 10 Super Bowl 60 storylines you're going to get sick and tired about hearing the most between now and when toe meets balls you know we in the media we got a lot to talk about we're we're just twiddling thumbs waiting for the game uh chris you're already sick and tired of hearing it because you've heard about it for months uh number 10 on the power rankings list is most uh uh uh the more you don't even have to say crazy super bowl 60 story lines you're gonna get sick and tired about hearing the most is just how good are the patriots are are they one of the worst Super Bowl teams.

5:15Rich Eisen:I believe that I saw that as a headline. Because their regular season was not that challenging. They won 14 games. I get it. I'm just saying what the storyline is. I get it. Okay, score 54 points and still make the Super Bowl. It is the fewest points scored prior to a Super Bowl of any team that's played three playoff games to reach the Super Bowl, wildcard divisional and championship games. 54 points beating the 61 points the 2000 ravens scored that 68 points the 2007 giants scored the 70 points the 2023 kansas city chiefs scored the thing that all three of those other teams have in common you say it oh you say it they won the super bowl they won the super bowl and so that 2007 giants team that everyone's like really how are they going to beat the patriots uh-huh i'm still wondering that nobody was talking about between then and this day oh those giants weren't any good okay so that's number 10 you're gonna hear that a lot surprised that wasn't one no no no you'll know what one is number nine number nine is is the legion of boom 2.0 as good as the original because this defense man um has not allowed a touchdown in back-to-back games in 2025 there's been two instances of that the Seahawks in week 18 and the divisional round and then the Seahawks in weeks 13 and 14 of this season that's it no touchdowns allowed they're the first team league-wide to have multiple streaks in a season of allowing zero touchdowns since the last team who did it.

6:59Rich Eisen:You want to guess the last team that did it? The 2014 Seahawks, the Legion of Boom. Oh, you're picking out what I'm putting down right now? Are you picking up? The Seahawks allowed the fewest points in the NFL in 2025, just 17.2 points per game. It's the fifth season in team history finishing with the number one scoring defense. The other four times, 2012 through 2015, the Legion of Boom. So, that's number nine. Number eight on my power rankings of the Super Bowl 60 storylines, you're going to get sick and tired of hearing out the most. Stephon Diggs is in the Super Bowl, and he's the king of primetime games in the regular season.

7:42Rich Eisen:Nothing but 100-yard games in primetime games for this guy. However, it's a six-straight playoff game now with less than 100 receiving yards. That's the longest drought in his career. But in terms of Stephon Diggs finally being in the Super Bowl, how about this? it's his first career Super Bowl and his 11th season in the NFL. He's got 982 career playoff receiving yards. That's the most ever by a player prior to playing in their first career Super Bowl. His 80 career playoff receptions are 25 more than any other player in NFL history prior to playing in their first career Super Bowl. The previous record was 55 by Marvin Harrison Sr.

8:24Rich Eisen:he just damn near doubled it to finally get here and he's finally made it and he's the first Patriots player with a thousand receiving yards since Edelman in 2019 what did they do in 2019? they lost to the Titans they did I know it's been a while the year before he was Super Bowl they're back and you know who's back? number seven on my list everybody buddy. Cooper Cupp's back in the Super Bowl. That's another storyline that you're going to hear quite a bit about between now and kicking things off. He's the sixth former Super Bowl MVP to play in a later Super Bowl with a different team. The others are named Von Miller, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, and Jerry Rice.

9:14Rich Eisen:Von, Brady, Manning all won the Super Bowl after winning Super Bowl MVP with a different team. He can become the fourth player in NFL history to win multiple Super Bowls and lead the NFL in receiving yards in a season in his career. The only other ones who did that, Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, and Cliff Branch. We also know, you'll hear this as part and parcel of Cooper Cup. He grew up in Yakima, Washington. He's a Washington guy, went to eastern Washington, where he had 6 ,464 receiving yards. You're going to hear about it. Hometown guy, back in the Super Bowl. Super Bowl MVP, Cooper Cup is back.

9:51Rich Eisen:number six on the list. This is the exact opposite of number 10, which was just how good are the Patriots? This one I think folks are going to get really sick and tired of hearing about. Is this the start of a new New England dynasty? Because the connective tissue between this and 2001 is beyond eerie. This photograph of Tom Brady putting his hands on his head. He was a second-year player. Nobody expected it from a pick 199. His head coach, Bill Belichick. It's remarkable Tom Brady without having a Hall of Fame head coach that year. And Bill Belichick getting his second bite at head coaching in the NFL.

10:39Rich Eisen:How is he going to do it different? By taking Tom Brady to the winner's podium. Mike Vrabel's second shot at coaching. He's got a second-year kid in Drake May that everybody thinks they're going to get blown out by an NFC West juggernaut team. It's the same thing. And they appear to be set up. Get ready for that being a conversation. Before they even win the Super Bowl. Is this a John's thing? Hey, we want everything right in front of us, right? Number five. Here's our top five. Reach the top five. My power rankings of the Super Bowl 60 storylines you're going to be sick and tired of on the most.

11:16Rich Eisen:Different journeys of two number three overall picks to the same crossroads. Because, yep, Darnold and May were third overall picks in the NFL drafts of 2018 and 2024. They're the first Super Bowl matchup in NFL history between top five drafted quarterbacks who are not yet 30 years old. We've never seen this one before. Drake May gets drafted in New England, wins only four games year one. Year two, boom. It's obvious he's the man. There's no bust here in New England. As a matter of fact, he's going to bust every norm and become the youngest kid to ever win the Super Bowl at quarterback. And then you got Sam Darnold, who's been through now five teams to get there.

12:14Rich Eisen:first Super Bowl between starting quarterbacks that each have fewer than four career playoff starts since Super Bowl 34 and 99 when Kurt Warner and Steve McNair went at it. It's been a while since we've seen a matchup like this, but two guys drafted in the same position, third overall, two different journeys to the big day. Number four, who is Mike McDonald? Who is he? Good one. Who is this head coach of the Seattle Seahawks? We know the other guy. But who is this guy? Who is this 38-year-old guy, once upon a time, a high school assistant, who then went to coach at Georgia, where he went to school, and then became a Ravens coaching intern in 2014?

12:59Rich Eisen:You know what happened in 2014? The Seahawks and the Patriots played each other in the Super Bowl? He was born in Boston. Did you know that? I did not. Yeah. How about that? Nice. And he's got a wife. He's got a one-year-old son. That he only sees for 30 minutes a week. That's what he said. Yeah. Because he wishes he'd get to see him more. But he's too busy taking the Seahawks to the Super Bowl. You know? Who is Mike McDonald? Good one. Is number four on this list. Number three of Super Bowl 60 storylines you're going to get sick and tired of hearing about. It's just quite simply, Drake Mayapalooza.

13:35What?

13:36Rich Eisen:That's it. He's going to be the youngest quarterback to win a Super Bowl, maybe. Is his shoulder hurt? Oh, he was at Super Bowl 50 as a Panthers fan in this stadium. Now, 10 years later, he's quarterbacking as a 23-year-old for the New England Patriots in this stadium after beating the team that he watched beat his favorite team back in the day. It's kind of crazy. In Denver. Okay, what else do we need to know? Oh, he's the youngest of four boys. His brothers Luke and Bo won the national championship in basketball for North Carolina in 2017. And his brother Cole was a pitcher for the national champion Florida Gators.

14:24Rich Eisen:So all the brothers have won titles. And it's Drake May now in the Super Bowl. And, oh, his wife. Bake May. His wife, Ann, bake May because she bakes goods on TikTok. And they love her in New England. And look at these two. Look at these two. They began dating in 2015. Us Magazine is writing articles about them. Oh, wow. Right now, yes, comparing their videos. Are they the next Kelsey and Taylor Swift? Oh, look at that. These are the headlines. Her brother, Tad, backed up May in North Carolina at quarterback. Did you know that? Come on. It's a Drake, me a palooza. But that's not even close because number two on this list, Mike Vrabel, Super Bowl player and coach.

15:16Rich Eisen:Did you know he played in Super Bowl? Did you know he played? Not only, he's played in four of them. No way. Yeah, he won three rings. Did not know. Yeah, the Patriots can win their seventh Super Bowl most ever, and Vrabel could be the one with three of them as a player and one of them as a head coach. He caught some in the Super Bowl. He caught some, too? No way. Yep. Oh, it's crazy. Get ready. And he's just going to be as accommodating as he possibly can be. He's got a little bit of the Belichick gruffness in him, but he's also got a little bit of a nice sweetheart, like big lug type of guy, right?

15:55Rich Eisen:He's pinky waving. He's a pinky waver. I know that firsthand at the American Century Championship. I got to start doing that. So there's that. Number one, though, the number one storyline prior to Super Bowl 60 that you're going to get sick and tired about hearing the most is the Sam Darnold redemption story. And it's going to be at some point in time, you're like, I get it. But it's an incredible story, and it's going to be told 50 different ways. Sam Darnold with the Jets. He's the first former Jet quarterback to start in a Super Bowl. He's also the first one of that 2018 class with Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield.

16:34He beats everyone to the Super Bowl.

16:37Rich Eisen:He was a Carolina Panther once upon a time. Then he was, by the way, a San Francisco 49er. Where are they playing? They're playing where the Niners play. And wait for it. He's the first USC quarterback in the history of the Super Bowl. Do you know where he won the Pac-12 championship with USC? No, stop. Levi's Stadium beating Stanford. Did you know that was part of this redemption story? We're connecting dots. I told you I'm a dot connector tapestry weaver. And then he goes to Minnesota where he wins 14 games. But they are even like, we got to see what we got in the young guy. Send him to Seattle.

17:23Rich Eisen:Look what he's done. He's going to the Super Bowl. His grandfather was the Marlboro man. His name was Dick Hammer. What? Yes. True, Jay Fowler. Look it up. Look it up. His grandfather's the Marlboro Man, and his name is, in fact, Dick Hammer. A guy who should go by the name of Richard if there's ever been one, along with longtime pitching coach Dick Pohl. I know. Longtime NASCAR Dan Patrick show favorite Dick Trickle. people who should go by the name of Richard. All part of Sam Darnold's redemption story. That's the number one. You have one more. There's even one more because it's part and parcel of the chip that's on the Seattle shoulder.

18:15Rich Eisen:Is Jackson Smith in Jigba and by proxy Seattle as a whole overlooked? I'm mixing it all together. It's a melange. I didn't talk. I just went through 10. I mentioned Cup. I mentioned Diggs. I didn't mention the guy with the most receiving yards, and all he needs is 35 in this game, and he's the first kid of his age to have 2 ,000 yards in the season, including playoffs, in the air and in his hands. And we're not talking about him enough. You know, as a matter of fact, we don't talk about Seattle enough. You're right. We don't. Talking about New England. What have they done with that schedule? Beat everybody.

18:56Rich Eisen:Uh-huh. What have they done with all those points that they didn't score in the playoffs? Made the Super Bowl. Yeah. So, get ready for it. Talking more about New England, East Coast bias. Don't forget about the team that's being respected by the Vegas line. Oh, baby. And those are my top Super Bowl 60 power-ranked storylines. Atta boy, well done. Rich Eisen is right. Thank you. Ken Jennings. Ken Jennings approves. Boy. that that drop's gonna be great that's got some run to it it's better than what's eisen what's eisen what's eisen you know what i mean like that's like it's half a sentence you know what's eisen up to you know what i mean doing go ahead go hit it again what's eisen doing here yeah what's eisen eating for lunch that's right all of it we could keep going on and on but okay thank you he's just gonna make a meal out of it ted mcginley let's bring him out one of our favorites shrinking is such an awesome show and he's awesome in it that's next he's next what's next

20:10Rich Eisen:rich eyes in here the tax deadline will be here before you know it and you just want to know your taxes are actually being handled but the old way you hand everything off and then Silence days pass weeks pass you start wondering should I send another follow-up email it feels like you're chasing updates and getting nowhere but now taxes are different because your taxes are done for you by a TurboTax full-service expert with Intuit TurboTax you can match with your dedicated tax expert and hand off everything right in the app and while your expert checks for every deduction you'll see real-time updates on your phone so you always know exactly where things stand.

20:50Rich Eisen:Suddenly you're not refreshing your inbox. You're going for a run, grabbing a coffee, scrolling anything other than a just checking in message because your TurboTax expert is handling it and keeping you in the loop. So this tax season, get your best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve without the guesswork. Visit TurboTax.com today to learn more. Real-time updates only in iOS mobile app, only available with TurboTax full service experts. If you're like me and my family, you're all about creating amazing memories while on vacation. And for me, many of those have involved a home we found on Airbnb.

21:28Rich Eisen:We had such great experiences that whenever we travel somewhere new, we always check Airbnb first to find a place that fits our needs. The homes we've stayed in, comfortable, safe, private. You feel like you're part of the community. After a long day of exploring or sitting on a beach, it really is nice to come back to a place you can call your own. Airbnb is also a great way if you want to earn some extra money while you're traveling or out of your house for an extended period of time. You can make your home work for you while you're away. Not as a full-time thing, not as some big production, just something that fits into trips you're already taking.

22:02Rich Eisen:You can use the money for that dream vacation or put that money towards that outdoor kitchen you always wanted. Hosting on Airbnb just feel smart. Your home may be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host. The Rich Eisen Show podcast. He is here on the Rich Eisen Show. Our radio audience just returned. We just showed a clip of season three of Shrinking, which just premiered on Apple TV last night. It is an outstanding program. It is worth every single second of your time. And Ted McGinley is back here on the Rich eyes and show in support you came here when season two was out and season four just got greenlit too right yeah so i'd like to come back tomorrow talk about four you're here welcome anytime and before we get into everything else just more on on this show uh i told this to you back um stage if you will before you came out here um my wife and i we watch the show and we wake up happier the next day we really do and there's so many things that you want to watch before you go to sleep you can binge watch you can whatever and and sometimes you know it's tough to get to sleep after it like you know you watch the wrong thing before going to sleep um but we genuinely wake up happier because of this program i i truly mean it you know that one that's a and it feels great to hear that because i'm so proud of this show i'm so proud to be a part of this show uh i it's so high level um the writing is brilliant none of that is happening by accident our staff is the best i've ever been around and they are the smartest people in the room right so that's it doesn't they are very well aware that they want you to be touched and to be emotionally moved in every episode yes and it happens uh and it is what a amazing thing to be a part of something where someone could say that that we go to bed happier we do wake up happier we do ted and the thing i think about a lot watching this show because you're right about all the emotions all the feels is you know the famous jim valvano speak yes yes about how you should laugh every day you should cry every day you should touch grass every day that's a full day as he would say and and it it's it describes almost every episode of your show for real you know could not agree more and that's i think that's exactly it but that is the human experience right i mean that's how it's supposed to be right and and when we're locked into these giant cities or or or areas where we can't get out and touch the earth and and really experience each other because we're walking with our head down yes you know sometimes you just have to stop and breathe and touch the earth and get in it and because there's no escape from pain from sorrow from hurt from joy from laughter you know you all of these things happen and this show is just representative of of the human experience and you know in preparation of your appearance here susie and i we binge watched the end of season two last night because you know we're i'm also a professional you know i've heard that the lead pipe building professional um so um and you know the finale of season two is a thanksgiving day episode in which every character involved goes around the room and talks about something for which they're thankful and harrison ford's character gets up yes and goes on a soliloquy about you know he's a gruff character a gruff guy with a soft center uh but has also been diagnosed with parkinson's and the speech that he gives is so emotional you know this just in he's so great I I thought to myself while watching all the cutaways of all the characters I gotta ask you Ted McGinley what is that like for you sitting there and watching Harrison Ford deliver something like that I will tell you two very interesting stories about that day please uh one that speech is a speech that Michael J.

26:17Fox gave on Spin City when he discovered that his medication, he had to save it. He couldn't use it for rehearsals and for the show. He had to save it for his life, for his family. And that was sort of Harrison's speech. You mean in real life? Yes. Michael J. Fox had to give that speech on Spin City. Huh. To the cast, to the fellow members? And he was saying, listen, my life, I owe this to my family. I'm not going to, I can feel myself atrophying. I'm going to save you. I'm safe here. So I'm not going to take this medication. I can only take so much because it's the law of diminishing returns.

26:57Jeez. And so Bill, I think, pulled that from there. And there's a lot of that element in that speech. Two, the day we came in, we were having rehearsal roughly. And just sort of go over it and say the words. It's not, we're not, you're not, it's not, you're not all in yet. And we're trying to market. It's a huge scene. We have so many people. Harrison starts to speak and every single person, you could hear a pin drop from the furthest crew member out at craft service. I mean, it was, it was amazing. And it stopped and he couldn't even finish. He just stopped and we all stopped. We all walked away waiting for them to come back and light it.

27:41just no one said a word it was it was one of those moments and we knew it was going to be one of those moments it was uh i remember telling luke and lukita um the two younger kids i said you'll never forget this because these things just they're rare and when you're in a group scene like this it was so beautiful oh man so he was amazing if harrison doesn't win after season three I don't want to say I'm going to quit but I'm going to quit I mean he's he's so good he's

28:13Rich Eisen:Harrison Ford I know I asked you about this last time you were here I'm like you're okay like yeah you gotta catch yourself I imagine you're going to work that's for forever it was so difficult the kids get up there they work with him like like it's not a problem for me I was like oh my god it's Indiana Jones uh but now we've got because he will put you at ease he'll come up and tell you a bad joke he'll hang around you you know do something fun the next thing you know it's not it's just it's just another act and now michael j fox is on this season playing somebody who suffers from parkinson's and you know there was a scene in the uh premiere on uh last night um and just gives you an idea of what's to come for this season michael j fox is one of my heroes honestly i mean you're talking about a guy who is living and has been living with parkinson's for a long time and when you watch what it takes to go through his life yeah it's heroic the things that he's able to pull off and the level that he does i think he's amazing on this show right and when you go and watch harrison and michael side by side on set it's it's you know it's i can't believe i get to just watch it right and let alone be a part of it and it's kind of crazy again for people who are might be new to shrinking it's a hilarious show i mean little despite what we just mentioned for the last five minutes.

29:30Rich Eisen:It is hilarious, but it really just does. Soup to nuts, run the gamut. Like you're getting, I could see you're getting misty just sitting here recounting these stories. Well, I just think - It's pretty awesome. Michael talks about, Michael J. Fox is talking about funny and Harrison's in there and talking about Parkinson's and Michael J. Fox, you can tell he has it. He says, what are you in for? And he says, oh, haircut. Yeah, I mean, that's the kind of, so yes, you're there and then you're somewhere else. Yeah, I'm here for a haircut. Like, okay, sounds good. Yeah. Again, shrinking season three, just started season four has been greenlit catch up if you haven't seen it already seasons one and two and if you have you know exactly what we've been talking about so let's let's uh let's go at a different direction here um you said to me backstage let's tell this story you did the rose parade this year you yes you and your wife yes part of the rose parade yeah so shrinking had a float and and by the way in 1948 my mom was supposed to be on on she was one of the princesses but she got in a car accident the night before oh and so she never got to do it okay my mom died right before the parade of this year you're talking about oh i'm sorry 15 days before okay so so you're doing it got to ride in the parade for my mom yes and it poured rain and i think those were her tears because she wasn't allowed to be on it oh my gosh anyway it was phenomenal It was one of the greatest days of my wife and I both walked off that float 20 feet off the ground.

30:55Right. Having kind of a difficult year in 2025. We had the fire and the Palisades and parents passing. And so this was really, we're trying to figure out how 26 was going to come. Yes. We started off on the parade. We walked another 50 feet off the ground. Right. It was so exciting. You see these people are pouring rain with a man-made tent or shelter over them. And they're just looking at you, waving, smiling. They want nothing other than to give you their love and appreciation. Yes. And so it would just absorb it like sponges.

31:25Rich Eisen:And that would be, you know, thousands of people from Indiana who are there to watch this. And this is what I think I love about this story the most. You talking about connecting on a human level with these folks. Yeah. And how it made you and your wife feel. But your wife is an Ohio State Buckeye. So what happened? My wife is a hardcore Buckeye. And then what happened? So Indiana beat their Buckeyes. And so we're going to watch the game. You know, we want to go home and watch a game. My wife says, I'm not watching. She won't watch. She doesn't want to watch Indiana. She boycotted. But she was very supportive of the people while we were there.

31:58Okay, she was supportive of the people, but not the cause at the end of the day. But that's why I love my wife, because I love that part of her.

32:06Rich Eisen:But you're supposed to root for the Big Ten. By the way, she found out you're a Michigan guy. I know that. And she said, you can't go back. She wanted to know exactly where the office was. We had the new Michigan head coach, Kyle Winningham, on the program. And he goes back in the day, obviously, with Utah, back to when Urban Meyer was the coach there. And he left there, as we know, to go to Ohio State. And so they're really tight. And I told him now that he's the Michigan head coach, he's no longer allowed to be friends with him. Yeah, that's right. So at least your wife will understand that.