Hour 3: Tom Pelissero’s Top NFL Storylines Power Rankings, Brock Lesnar’s Vikings Tryout & More

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0:37Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with Power Boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Goats only trust goats, because they're built different. And Messi only trusts Duracell. This is The Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody. Can't get enough of The Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck. You can find us everywhere. Watch us weekdays on Disney Plus from noon to 3 Eastern. Miss the show? We've got a podcast so you can listen anytime. But here's the best part. Our YouTube channel. Subscribe at youtube.com slash richeisenshow and you'll never miss a moment.

1:27Now, on with the show. With the first pick, the Washington Wizards select the Rich Eisen Show with guest host Tom Pelissero. God, I love that guy. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Earlier on the show, ESPN senior NBA writer Vincent Goodwill, two-time major champion Colin Morikawa. Coming up, Super Bowl champion receiver Antonio Freeman. And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Tom Pelissero.

2:01Tom Pelissero:Welcome back to the Rich Eisen Show. Tom Pellicero sitting in for Rich with my boys in the studio, Chris Brockman. Yeah, yeah. Jason Feld. TJ Jefferson. I believe we set a record in the first two hours of the show. The longest in my, what, probably 30 episodes of this show that I have hosted in this seat over the past several years. Definitely the longest we ever went without talking about the NFL. Not even close. Great guests across the spectrum. Colin Morikawa and Antonio Freeman on to talk about the other football. We've talked about Vincent Goodwill, NBA draft, tons of that. We'll flip the script a little bit here.

2:39Tom Pelissero:Hour three of the show. I will get to the power rankings of the biggest storylines in the offseason remaining between now and September 9th when the NFL season begins. Do that momentarily here. But we stumbled on something. Yeah, Tom, we technically did. I want to close the loop on something that we brought up briefly briefly at the end of the last hour and i had to give a slightly truncated version of a story just give you a taste we had been talking off air and apparently i had never told you guys on the show or off air specifically tj the host of no contest wrestling right here on the rich eyes podcast network episode dropping this afternoon i had never mentioned that i was covering the vikings when brock lesnar tried out in training camp back in 2004 this comes on the heels of jake paul saying i was in a podcast recently yeah you turbo youtuber turned fighter turned promoter uh that his next goal is go to the nfl might walk on at stanford first just to get his feet wet he's 29 years old, wants to play slot receiver, which maybe just body type-wise, if I were scouting him, probably not the position I would recommend.

3:54Tom Pelissero:But you guys said, like, you know, if Brock Lesnar couldn't make it in the NFL, why do other guys think that they can go into the NFL and make it? LeBron's made comments about that in the past, too, that if he didn't play in the NBA, that he could have been a tight end. Well, LeBron. He would have had a chance. that's a little different body type but Brock Lesnar okay he was a he was an all-american wrestler at the University of Minnesota he was of course in I believe it was WWE at that time he's one of the UFC heavyweight champion right but before that this is back when he was a WWE wrestler he decided I want to go back and try out for the NFL the head coach at the time was Mike Tice who Ticey was like never afraid of something that he thought would be entertaining and might kind of you know give a rise out of the guys he's like let's let's do it so they sign him in in the off season they sign him in like june and so our first look at brock lesnar the nfl player is when he arrives to training camp which in those days was held at minnesota state mankato i believe it's now just minnesota state uh brock lesnar rolls up with sable to the dorms to check in uh for his first training camp it's a scene man i mean whatever you saw of like how sable would have been dressed in the ring exactly what she's wearing okay rock is rolling in i recall it in my mind's eye i think he was wearing a sleeveless shirt like all the muscles out of course and they're checking in it's it's the biggest story mind you this is not a pretty good vikings team they went to the playoffs that year they beat the packers in the randy moss mooning game right uh And Dante Culpepper is the quarterback.

5:33Tom Pelissero:They were a high-powered offense, and they had some pretty good players on defense. So where it registered with me of exactly what you guys are talking about was the first day coming onto the practice field. Brock Lesnar, by the way, wearing No. 69, comes out on the practice field, and I remember seeing him with the horse, the thing that you can hit, the sled. Excuse me. I like horse. Let's go with that. I don't know why horse is what came up. the sled the blocking sled i mean i knew what you meant when you've been a long day already this is what happens when we don't talk nfl for two hours so lesnar comes up to the sled and he's standing next to kevin williams who was the first round pick the year before perennial all pro player and brock looked so small he's wide because he's got just you know massive traps and massive arms and he's just kind of like this under his pads but he's short I mean, Brock was, I don't know what he was listed at, but he was maybe 6 '1".

6:32Tom Pelissero:Kevin Williams is 6 '5". He's definitely bigger than 6 '1". All right, 6 '2", whatever he is. Kevin Williams is like 6 '5", boring on 6 '6". Every other defensive lineman is 6 '4", 6 '5", and he just looked small. Now, that was not the end of him, okay? He went through it. To Brock's credit, he worked really hard during training camp. Like, he did everything. This was not like a gag. This was not a joke. This was Brock as a wrestler who, you know, wrestlers a lot of times make good offensive or defensive linemen. Yeah, he was 27 at the time. 27 years old. How tall is he? How tall is Brock Lesnar listed at?

7:08Tom Pelissero:He says 6 '2". Well, I'm 6 '3", and I've taken a picture with him. He's taller than I am. He's listed at 6 '2", so he's probably 6 '1", TJ. Maybe he had some lifts in the shoes for that photo. Or maybe you've grown since the photo. I'm just telling you. But anyway, he was much smaller. But he worked really hard. And actually, eventually got into a preseason game and made a play in the backfield in his final game. Now it's third stringers. It's the end of the game. Everyone's fired up. But so the players got a rise out of Lesnar being there. A lot of them are wrestling fans, so it was just cool for him to be there.

7:44Tom Pelissero:But they also liked, he had this attitude. He carried himself. Yes, he worked hard like he was trying to make the roster, but he still carried himself like, I'm the baddest dude on this planet. him so they were having uh joint practice with the chiefs in mankato which is where the vikings uh training camp was the year before there had been an incident when they went over and visited the chiefs in river falls where uh a guy named i think his name was russian jones hit one of the chiefs quarterbacks and like dick vermil said i wanted to get a gun and shoot that guy in the head and like they called they called off practice like it was a whole thing but they still have the joint practice the following year.

8:24Tom Pelissero:So once again, like everyone comes in and like the emotions are already high and we still see this in joint practices today, but you just knew like it was kind of, there was going to be an issue at some point. And so things are kind of escalating, escalating. Well, all of a sudden I think it was Trent green was the chief's quarterback and he gets hit down around the knee and a brawl breaks out like if it's a football brawl. Okay. It's not like, you know, they're punching each other in the face, It's one of the things where everybody comes together. And all of a sudden, Brock Lesnar comes out of nowhere and suplexes a guy.

8:57Tom Pelissero:You just see. I still have a grainy video somewhere of it because it was 2004 and you've got the original digital cameras. But he comes and just grabs the guy and throws him down. He took him to Suplex City. Suplex City, baby. He comes out. Then everybody jumps in. Now it's a brawl. brock comes out of the of the pile no helmet on and is just strutting around like this is like showing off the crowd is going bananas that's where took over that was it was one of the wildest things i ever saw in the nfl he didn't make the team he didn't i don't think he really wanted to do like the practice squad he took his best shot there he is right there uh but he that fight is one of my like most vivid memories i'm 23 years old this is totally wild when you find this video you gotta send it to me it's it's so grainy and bad but it does show brock coming out of the pile and strutting around with his helmet off and again everybody is like these guys are patting him on the shoulder pads couldn't have been happier about this oh that's amazing that is the one and 21 and one it was rock you gotta add the music there were a lot of a very interesting moment in vikings history chock full of many interesting moments and still zero we've had hundreds of conversations you and i and i can't believe this is the first time that this has been brought up this is wild i'll dig deep some things get buried deep down in the subconscious that was 22 years ago in my defense 2026 edifield season right around the corner 76 days away.

10:34Tom Pelissero:11 weeks from tonight. It's the kickoff game on a Wednesday. It's the Super Bowl rematch. The Seahawks going up against the Patriots. And I have here in my hand a rarity for me in my times on this show. We're going to do some power rankings. Hey-oh. Hit it.

10:57This is my power rankings. There are many like it, but this one is mine. Power rankings.

11:04Tom Pelissero:Power Rankings presented by SoFi. Here we go. Top 10 storylines remaining to resolve in the NFL between now, June 24th, and the kickoff game on September 9th, which is how many days away, Brockman? 76 and a half. 77 days away. You can't even count. You can't even take off the half. The game's like six hours from now. We're halfway through this day. 77 days and change. Number 10. Does Brandon Ayuk play this season? Oh, gosh. This guy. There's so much to unpack with him and the Instagram posts. He has not played an NFL snap in close to two years now since he went down with that injury. And that, of course, was preceded by the offseason standoff back in 2024.

11:53Tom Pelissero:Leads to him signing the contract less than a week later. He's in an argument with Kyle Shanahan on the practice field because he refuses to wear the right colored shorts. It's been downhill since then. He's posting messages, go Commanders, Jaden Daniels rules, like all this stuff, and posting direct shots at the 49ers. I don't anticipate there's a trade here. I don't know how in the world you can trade for him. You're going to have to adjust the contract anyway. This is a complete buy low shot in the dark. He is close with Jaden Daniels. They were at Arizona State together. If there's one place he's going to go, it is Washington.

12:25Tom Pelissero:If I'm the Commanders, there's no way I'm trading for him. if I'm the 49ers, I'm willing to let this ride until he shows up. The thing Brandon Ayuk has to do, and I guarantee you he's been advised this and has not done it, is show up. 49ers, they're quarterbacks. A lot of times that includes injured players, one of the first groups to show up. That's on like July 17th, I think. Brandon Ayuk should be waiting there with his key card. If he gets denied from the building, he's got a grievance on his hand. Does his key card work? If he comes in, they're going to go, all right, let's cut him. And that'll be the end of it.

12:58Tom Pelissero:Because he's still on the books. His salary will go back on the books if he shows up, says, I'm coming off the did not report. I'm back. You at least set up the confrontation. He hasn't done it. Does he even play in 2026? Step one, show up. Imagine if they had just traded him to Pittsburgh two years ago. For a lot. He could have gone to New England, but then he decided he didn't want to go there. Right. There were several different iterations of the IUC trade. Instead, they paid him because he finally came back, and then he's like, you know what? I want to be here. Kyle needs good receivers. John Lynch didn't really want to let him go.

13:29Tom Pelissero:Signs the deal for, I think it was$28 million a year. And within a week, it's, dude, everyone else is wearing red shorts. Why are you in black shorts? Or whatever it was, vice versa. Stupid. Never was the same. Gets his guarantees voided. Never completes his rehab. We don't even know how healthy he is. Go in, pass a physical, get yourself cut, and then you can go play in Washington, probably for the minimum plus incentives. That's where we are right now in the IU story. Number nine, do any more big quarterback deals get done? We saw Patrick Mahomes. That was a unique one. Adding two years on to what is already the longest contract in NFL history.

14:06Tom Pelissero:Matthew Stafford got a one-year,$60 million extension. Really, when you break down that contract, it was giving him a little bump that hits next March. It gave him some upside in terms of incentives. Then it locks him in. it gives everybody breathing room after this season to decide what the future actually is going to be it's not a guarantee even plays in 2027 but it was a little bump a little upside and it removes a situation where they'd have to cut him because all this acceleration or they'd have to make a move very early in the offseason I'm talking about real quarterback deals Lamar Jackson the Ravens have publicly said for two years they're trying to get something done with Lamar his last deal got done when he just basically responded to an email like yeah I'll take that offer on draft day no less with lamar he doesn't have an agent he marches to the beat of his own drummer he's a really really good player if i'm lamar if i if he had an agent if i were his agent i'd say just wait dude next offseason you got caleb williams you got jayden daniels you got drake may you got bonix they're all coming up for new deals the 60 million dollar mark is gonna be 70 million in terms of again the legit multi-year extensions you're making i think he's making 52 million dollars lamar is this year it's around that number you don't need to rush you're not like making he played for the minimum his fourth year in the league you're making good coin right now just wait the money's behind door number two yeah 52 million cash for lamar 52 million cash and he's due 50 plus in the next couple of years as well there's no rush the ravens would like to get something done baker mayfield he's got one year left on his deal it sounds like right now Baker who if you break down the tiers of quarterbacks of the 16 guys who have actual franchise deals Baker's number 16 then he got this huge drop off into like the Geno Smiths and Justin Fields of the world so Baker's got a case the Bucks obviously don't really want to pay him what's near or at the top of the market statistically he's been as good as anybody they got decisions to make everybody wants Baker in Tampa he's already said the cutoff is start a training camp.

16:09Tom Pelissero:We don't have a deal. I'm not negotiating. I'll play out the season. Then you either tag me or I hit free agency. That's a big one. Then you get some of the young guys, CJ Stroud, Bryce Young. That's a big question to answer here. Does anybody try to move the market now? Or do you look at what could happen a year from now and say, I'm just going to play this thing out. Let's see where we are next offseason. Number eight, biggest storyline before the start of the NFL season, where do the former Pro Bowl receivers end up? There are a lot of them. Stephon Diggs is still out there. Tyree Kill, we don't know how healthy he is at this point, but a really good player.

16:45Tom Pelissero:I don't know if he plays at all in 2026. We'll see. Debo is still a free agent. Keenan Allen is still a free agent. You want to go deeper? DeAndre Hopkins is a free agent. Brandon Cooks. A lot of these guys now are at a different stage in their career where they were making 20, 25, 30 million. They're now probably$5 million type players. They all have something left. Let's see where some of those dominoes fall. A lot of times it comes down to coaches and teams putting their rookies out there the first couple weeks and you're thinking this third round pick can help me. Then you watch them in live contact drills and you're like, we might need a little help.

17:19Tom Pelissero:We might need a little competition at this spot. Those first couple of weeks of camp will be really telling of where things go with some of those big name receivers and big name edge players who are still sitting out there as well. number seven i will just say this it's still an nfl storyline until every every option is exhausted what happens with brandon sourceby he has gone from treatment for gambling addiction to getting his eligibility stripped by the ncaa to suing the ncaa to getting an injunction to play to having the big 12 and the other big 12 schools rise up against texas tech the texas tech backing away to him pulling the lawsuit because he's running out of time for the supplemental draft to the NFL saying, just kidding, we're not even going to hold a supplemental draft.

18:02Tom Pelissero:We're only like nine steps in to this. He put himself in this situation, obviously, with the behavior regardless of at what point it became a compulsion or an addiction. He's not a victim in this case, but he is a really talented quarterback who currently has no place to play. There is still the possibility and his representatives have talked with the NFL Players Association in the last 24 hours. Could they potentially file a lawsuit against the NFL? Could they try to defeat a league that under the CBA has in writing, the league can choose whether to hold a supplemental draft. Can their patterns and practices, what they've done in the past, the things that they said in the letter, could any of that be used against them?

18:40Tom Pelissero:We'll see. Right now, Brennan Sorsby is still training as if there's a possibility this happens. The pro day is still scheduled. It will become an NFL, it will stop being an NFL storyline once this actually gets resolved. One way or another, he right now is eligible for the 2027 draft, which between him, Arch Manning, Dante Moore, Julian Sayen, I mean, go down the list. There's a ton of guys who are either potential first-round picks or at some point were regarded as first-round picks who are going to be a part of this process. Number six, are the Bears moving to Indiana? We still don't know. What we know is in the past month, the board of directors, which is all the McCaskies plus Kevin Warren and one other person, they took a vote which they don't do often that said hey our plan is to move to northwest indiana that's our focus but there's still a bunch of steps in that process in terms of getting all the permits having a construction plan finalizing deals on the land nfl approval all these things still need to take place and at the same time the state of illinois which has moved just quite honestly at a glacial pace on this and there's been years and years of politicians in chicago making very clear they have no interest in putting any public money toward a stadium.

20:00Tom Pelissero:There is still Arlington Heights as a possibility. There's always that long shot possibility of something coming up in Chicago. Until it's done, signed, sealed, and approved by the other NFL owners, they are still the Chicago Bears. They are still the monsters of the Midway, not the monsters of the Midwest. They're not the Chicagoland Bears. They're still the Chicago Bears, as they will be, even if they do ultimately move. But that's a pretty big storyline here. There's always stadium issues going on. That's a pretty substantial one. Number five. Biggest storylines before the NFL season begins on September 9th.

20:36Tom Pelissero:Nixon 5. Who is LeBron's starting quarterback? Oh. Now you could argue. Jake Paul. Stop it. He might be playing the slot. Brock Lesnar. Who do you be catching passes from? Or maybe LeBron. Bring it all full circle. LeBron's NBA career. He decides he's done. Cool. Let's go to Cleveland. Bring it all home. But just kidding. not playing for the Cavs. Might help. Playing for the Browns. Listen, they went through the entire spring. And my understanding has been, like, the things that you may have read a little bit in terms of the growth of Shadur Sanders is real. The pocket presence, decision-making, how he's reading things out, he's improved.

21:11Tom Pelissero:He has a new scheme. Todd Monken's there. He's worked with a bunch of different styles of quarterbacks through his NFL and college career. Shadur has grown. Anything out there about, like, they're looking to trade him. I would put zero stock into that. If I were sitting here right now, June 24th, and had to make an educated guess, I'd say he and Deshaun Watson, both on the team in September. And quite possibly both play. With Deshaun, he's looked really good through the spring. He's also a guy who's played, I believe, 19 games over the past five seasons combined. You don't know when he gets back on the field.

21:46Tom Pelissero:Even setting aside, does he have yet another freak injury? He had two Achilles. He had the shoulder all busted up. He's had an ACL. Obviously missed time because of a suspension and a soft suspension when he was in Houston back in 2021. But before that, the guy was a pretty good football player. What they don't know, and they really won't know even until they get into the preseason games, is when it's actually live and when you've got, frankly, the opposing crowd yelling at you and all that different stuff, what Deshaun Watson shows up. We know he's played winning football in the NFL. The Browns are sitting in a position right now where they're really in year two of a five-year roster reset.

22:23Tom Pelissero:their draft class last year might have been the best in the entire NFL. They make a bold move this year to trade Myles Garrett, a Hall of Fame caliber pass rusher. You get Jared Verse, you get draft picks. My feeling was that was very good value in that trade. You can't immediately replace Myles Garrett, but Verse walks in as a really good player. New coaching staff in there. There's a lot of moving parts, but they feel like they've got a foundation. What they have to spend this year figuring out is, do we have a quarterback? Is there any chance, whether it's Deshaun or Shadour, one of these guys can be the quarterback moving forward?

23:00Tom Pelissero:It'd be very surprising, given the entire history, if Deshaun ends up being that guy and gets another contract in Cleveland. It's hard to fathom. But he might be the starter, depending on what happens in training camp. And if it's Shadour, he's year two on a cheap fifth-round rookie contract. You've got all kinds of flexibility to build around him. They got two first-round picks in next year's draft. Thanks to the Garrett trade, they got additional capital in 28 and 29. A very good quarterback class of all those guys I just mentioned in 2027. Let's see what direction this goes. It may not be the difference between the Browns being a playoff team or not in 2026, but it will shape a lot of things in terms of next year's draft.

23:40Tom Pelissero:Number four, biggest storylines before NFL season. Who's the Vikings starting quarterback? I think the entire world, the moment they signed Kyler Murray, assumed it's Kyler Murray. If I were sitting here right now and had to take a guess, I'd still say it's Kyler Murray. In part because, for all the reports on he's thrown an interception in OTAs and things like that, he's not doing the thing that's made Kyler Murray special his whole career in a 7-on-7 period, which is taking off running. Once you get into the camp situation, he'll be able to cut that part loose. And if I'm Kevin O 'Connell, I want him sitting in the pocket.

24:14Tom Pelissero:He's being coached differently. It's a different offense. Meanwhile, J.J. McCarthy has come back. He played well down the stretch. I know JJ has become a meme for a lot of people. It's all about nine and locker room images and things like that. I was at that game in Detroit. That guy on the field that day beating the Lions in their home building, he can play. The guy who, despite some injuries, was playing well down the stretch, that guy can play. This is going to be a fascinating competition. Kevin O 'Connell was very deliberate about splitting the reps 50-50 throughout the course of the spring.

24:48Tom Pelissero:I think that the coaches know what direction this is going to go. I think they got a very good idea at minimum. But they intend to keep that 50-50 thing going into training camp. Let's see how it shakes. Number three storyline, who's the Falcons starting quarterback? This is the last one, I swear. I'm not just cheating and solely doing those. We really haven't seen the competition there yet. That's the difference with this one. Tua Tungvaluwa, by virtue of being healthy, has been able to get the reps, probably give himself a leg up in this competition. Michael Pettix Jr., at some point, maybe even at the start of training camp, is going to be clear and going to be able to be out there and actually competing for the job.

25:25Tom Pelissero:I know that Tua, in his own right, there have been all kinds of questions. A lot of it goes back to the injury history that predates the concussions. It goes back to the hip dislocation in Alabama. He's dealt with a lot. But he also has shown, when he is at his best and he's healthy, he can be a very, very efficient quarterback in the NFL. I think that for the style that Kevin Stefanski wants to play, Tua is probably a very good fit. I would also say Michael Penix Jr., remember, was drafted by a prior regime. All the people involved in that decision, other than the owner, they're all gone. So nobody is tied to Michael Penix Jr.

25:59Tom Pelissero:He's coming back from yet another major knee injury. I'm not saying that Tua is the frontrunner at this point, but certainly Tua was able to leave the impression in coaches' minds. Now it's on Michael Penix Jr. to try to play a little catch-up here. number two storyline until camp and i will admit this this one is out there this isn't based on information that this is likely this is just saying it's something that sounds crazy and nobody has shot it down yes i love these i love these hold on let me get ready all right what do we got does aaron donald come back ah Aaron Donald heard here first has not said no the Rams have said if he wanted to he could he hasn't played in two years we all know what he looks like in his private workouts in the gym on his beast we're all acutely aware Aaron Donald still looks like he is not a human being just casually throwing up 140s big leap between working out hard and having crazy workouts makes everybody else vomit and actually going in and playing in the NFL he's got to come to terms himself, a guy who has already said, like, I only wanted to play 10 years in the league.

27:11Tom Pelissero:He's got to come to terms with his family and his wife, who surely are under the impression he's done. But if Aaron Donald calls Sean McVay in, let's say, the middle of August, Sean McVay's not saying no. Sean McVay's saying, let's have this conversation. I'm just, all I'm telling you is, nobody has shot it down. I wouldn't sit here and say it's likely. I would just say if anyone can do it after two years out of the game it's this guy ad and the number one storyline between now and camp and again let me be abundantly clear i'm not saying something is happening i'm not saying it's coming i'm not saying i'm sitting on it i am just saying in a league where we have seen a lot of bananas things happen even last year in training camp we saw micah parsons traded at the end of August.

28:03Tom Pelissero:My question is, do we have one more big trade coming before the start of the regular season? Let's go. The biggest ones, I mean, in this offseason, obviously, Miles Garrett getting traded. Hard to be a bigger blockbuster than that. Possible. A.J. Brown trade that we talked about every day for four months. It was completely overshadowed because it came a few hours later. That's a pretty big trade. We had some quarterback movement, albeit at the lower end of the spectrum. You know, the Geno Smiths of the world being moved into trade. The question is, who would that be? You still have, listen, you still have some unresolved quarterback situations.

28:39Tom Pelissero:Mac Jones got a little salary bump from the 49ers. If somebody goes down in camp, is there a call for Mac Jones? If, let's say, the Raiders come to the conclusion that actually Fernando Mendoza is ready, it doesn't sound like that's Clint Kubiak's mindset, but does somebody call on Kirk Cousins? any of these quarterbacks who lose a battle potentially could they be in that trade mix what about max crosby that was the biggest trade of the offseason until it wasn't he was fully on board he was literally in baltimore went through his physical and then was told we got a problem i don't get the sense at all i know this max crosby does not want to be traded anymore he always wanted to be a raider he was frustrated with the way things were going Now it's like he got the sign from God, this is where you're meant to be.

29:29Tom Pelissero:But does somebody come up once he's fully healthy? This might be after week one. What if he just looks really good out of the gate? What if he plays some in the preseason? What if he plays in September? People are like, yeah, we would have done that deal. I mean, other teams were down the road on Max Crosby. Dallas was heavily in on Max Crosby. The Rams would have been interested in Max Crosby until they pivoted to Miles Garrett. it. That's a name to watch. Again, I don't believe anything happens before the season. Let's say some top pass rusher tears an ACL. What's your first call? Mine's on Max Crosby.