Lakers legend Michael Cooper joins Jim to discuss

0:00Michael Cooper:Lamina Mal steps into McDonald's, looks left, sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez. Gives a nod to Ronaldinho in the corner with a FIFA World Cup meal. Ronaldinho sees Sun in the booth. Sun finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce. He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henri, who pulls his own collectible cup.

0:22Jim Eisen:Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World Cup meal. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. While supplies last, all rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026.

0:37Jim Eisen:For 12 seasons, he was the defensive soul of Showtime Lakers. The guy Pat Riley sent to shut down the other team's best player night after night. He's won championships as a coach in WNBA and the G League. And just last year helped lead Cal State LA to the best season in their history. More importantly, he's a cancer survivor, one of the most respected minds in the game. It is an absolute honor to welcome the one and only Cooper Loop, Michael Cooper. He's a five-time NBA champ, Defensive Player of the Year, and as of last year, Naismith Basketball Hall of Famer. No other, Mr. Cooper Loop, Michael Cooper, but also, you know, got WNBA Championship talked about that.

1:22Jim Eisen:But my man, my man dropped a book. I need an autographed copy, of course. How you doing? Thank you for joining us. Hope all is well. But I wanted to dive into this really quick. What was the impetus behind the book and what made you really want to do it?

1:40Michael Cooper:First of all, thank you, Jimmy, for having me on the show, man. You know what? I've been, as basketball players or athletes, you just kind of go through your career. And I had been thinking about doing it like 10 years ago. But then when everything just started evolving and especially when the Hall of Fame came calling and I finally got into there. And then with the Lakers retiring my jersey, I felt that I had something to say. But it's been the book has been in the works for in my mind for the last 10 years. But for the last five years, things have started coming around. And then, I mean, it exploded in 24.

2:17Jim Eisen:So what was the behind it? Because a lot of people want to write books. A lot of people want to put things out there. But you have a unique story, too. So kind of how were you able to gather all of this information and know exactly what you really needed to put in the book? Because you lived through maybe some of the best era of basketball we've had. You got a lot of stories personally, professionally. But how did you narrow down kind of the subject matter?

2:44Michael Cooper:Jim, you know what? There's a cliche that goes around that says, if it can happen to me, it can happen to anyone. And I used to hear that all the time. And I was like, OK, you just go through those mundane moments and stuff like that. But you know what? My career started out very lowly. Wasn't a big time college player. Came in. All I wanted to do was to play in the NBA, which is considered the best basketball players, and to try to make a little bit of money to help my family out. And as I was going through that whole progression and I finally get there and then all of this starts happening. And then along the way, I had developed this thing I call Coups five D's.

3:23Michael Cooper:They are determination, dedication, desire, discipline and decision making. And those things really helped me on the court when I was playing basketball. People used to tell me I was too skinny. I couldn't do this, couldn't do that. But I stayed here to those five D's and I made the decision I was going to be about NBA basketball player. and people for me, those five D's can help anyone in any aspect of their life. You know, as far as being a good student in the classroom, when people tell you that you can't do this or you can't do that, those five D's have helped me. So that was kind of like the purpose of doing it because, you know, there are so many people in this world that are underappreciated and overlooked and those five D's helped me.

4:05Michael Cooper:And I felt that the book, putting those in the book and in the context of how it helped me get to where I am today. Being on your show, JJ, I felt that people could benefit from that and had to hear that.

4:18Jim Eisen:Well, speaking of context, let's back up because those five D's in your life began a long time ago when you were diagnosed, when you had, well, when you had a severe knee injury when you were younger, right? Yes. Yes. All the way back. All the way back. But that's right. But, but the doctor told you may not ever like really walk, right? Was that it? Was that kind of it?

4:37Michael Cooper:to walk again. Being a skinny guy, you know, my grandmother prayed for me all that night. I remember that. And she kept me up, wouldn't let me sleep because she thought I'd go into a coma if I went to sleep. So I lost so much blood. But yeah, when they told me that I'd never walk again, obviously through the power of prayer, my grandmother, very religious woman. And I have carried that religion with me now in my life. When that happened, not only was I able to walk, JJ, you know, being a basketball player, that was my best jumping leg. It was my left leg. So, So, you know, all of that just happened.

5:09Michael Cooper:And those five D's, again, played a big part into that as I look back on things.

5:13Jim Eisen:And that's what I was saying because you had to challenge yourself kind of going through the, okay, getting cut in high school, going through that same kind of story, not good enough, too skinny, but you had to prove yourself. When did it hit you that the Michael Cooper that really ultimately became the Hall of Fame player, everybody's a star, everybody wants to do this. I'm going to lock in and find out that, well, find a role for myself on the defensive end. Was that something that kind of started a little bit earlier? Did you learn that a little bit later as you entered the league?

5:44Michael Cooper:Well, the five D's helped me back in college because I had always thought about basketball, Jimmy going to school as being an athlete student. I didn't think about being a student athlete. And until I became academically ineligible my sophomore year, I had to go to junior college. my sophomore year, I messed up in the classroom and I couldn't play basketball. And that's when I felt it was a reality. I mean, I could go play on the streets and do all of that, but I couldn't play at a university. So when I rectified that situation of being a student athlete and carrying that on, that is what really emboldened those five D's for me, because now I could see the power in those five D's helping me off the court in the classroom.

6:26Michael Cooper:So now I make it to the pros, I get there and when I got to the Lakers I walk into the Jerry West was my coach at the time I walk in and he tells me he says Coop I got Norm Nixon, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Jabal Wilks ain't enough shots for you so you better hone in on that defense and that's how I stuck with I had a good my college coach Norm Ellenberger was a defensive guru and when I get to the pros I said okay well if I can't shoot the ball let me hone my skills and put those five D's to work on me on the defensive end.

6:57Jim Eisen:Okay, listen. I understand that, too. And we're players. And you accepted your role. I mean, probably one of the best complimentary players of all time. I mean, additions to a team. The Lakers don't win without Michael Cooper and what you did, okay? But was there still a little bit of like, man, I can play some offense. I can still score the ball. Come on, man. We're playing. Was it a little bit of that like, ah, I just needed a little bit?

7:30Jim Eisen:come on man tell the truth tell the truth i mean in junior college i have 24 points a game

7:34Michael Cooper:that's what i'm saying that's what i'm that's what i'm saying but what i'm telling you is what i got with the lakers you got kareem that gentleman behind me shooting the sky hook you had norm nixon jamal wilson had been with the golden state warriors who won a championship them guys is getting 25 shots a game that's 75 shots there and on any given night cream's gonna get more so for me i knew the shot was there but i just felt that my need was going to be on the defensive end because everybody was so focused on the offensive end and you know this jj and i mean you probably went up with some of the best defensive players we can't stop anyone but what we can do is make shots hard for you guys because you were a scorer so i just felt like that was going to be my niche that was going to be my need that's what i had to do to stay on the lakers team and being a sixth man, coming in the game most of the time is not for the offensive end.

8:24Michael Cooper:It was for the defensive end. So those five Ds helped me. And again, like I said, I had made the decision to be a basketball player. I had to make a decision to be a good defensive player.

8:33Jim Eisen:Well, let's go back. So you drafted, you get to L.A. I know you had a famous story with the first time you met Kareem. And he was working out, and he said something to you. What was that story about the first time you met Kat?

8:46Michael Cooper:Well, I walk into the Loyola Marymount, and back then it wasn't the gym that it is today. It's so refurbished and really nice. But it was a little gym, and I'm looking, and I'm standing down there, and Kareem is shooting skyhooks. And he goes, Rookie, what you looking at? Get your ass in there and get ready. We get ready to practice. Really? And it startled me. I mean, you know, I grew up watching Kareem at UCLA, man. I mean, Lou Alcindor. Well, here he is, Kareem, and I'm like, wow. You know, I kind of said I finally made it, but I had to make the team. But, yeah, that was my first encounter with him.

9:24Michael Cooper:And you know what? J.J. Kaep and I are the best of friends to this day. My birthday is April 15th. His birthday is April 16th. So I always knew there was going to be some synergy there. So what was the biggest lesson?

9:38Jim Eisen:And Kareem was so good politically, academically. of course his basketball IQ was off the hook but was there something that you really were able to learn and take away from him that maybe was off the court that helped you become the best six

9:55Michael Cooper:man that you can be on the court well his persistence to be at the best all the time and the one thing that I learned from Kareem was when the season's over with that doesn't mean basketball stops. And Kareem was, you know, he practiced with the famous Bruce Lee and Kung Fu and all of that and yoga. And that's the one thing he taught me, Coop, you got to stay in shape all the time. And he even went solo to our astrological science. He says, Aries are rams. They're leaders. You got to stay in shape. And that was the one thing that I learned from him is that during the off season, you could take, and most of the time we took a week off, but no, I went out back to the drawing board.

10:34Michael Cooper:I got involved in yoga, stretching a lot, taking care of yourself, eating right, doing all the right things. So when the season rolled around, you're in better shape than everybody else who uses training camp to get into shape. We didn't use training camp to get into shape. We used training camp to get our game together.

10:51Jim Eisen:MLB.tv on ESPN is your home for every out-of-market game, live or on demand.

10:56Michael Cooper:Catch your favorite teams and players, plus MLB Network and ESPN app features like Multiview, syncing your stats, key plays, bets, and fantasy,

11:06Jim Eisen:all in one place. Sign up now for MLB.tv and the ESPN app. Separate subscriptions required, blackouts, and other terms apply. Visit stream.espn.com slash MLB.tv for more information. It's interesting because Tareem was, it seems like monolithic like this. Focus, you know, the personality. You know, when you get to know him, probably so. But then here comes Magic Johnson, kind of the opposite. The smile comes in, the vibrancy, everything else. But I know you talked about with Magic, you said you've never been around a player that's enjoyed the game as much as Magic. What does that mean? Break that down.

11:46Michael Cooper:Well, that's just about, you know what? At the time, the NBA was going through a real rough time. And people just looked at it as a league that was scoring, a league that was about individuals, a league that was about trying to claim all the individuals so they can reap the benefit of money. When Magic Johnson came, Magic made it a fun sport to play again. Basketball is a game. That's why they call it a game. And Magic brought that unique aspect back. Even though it was at the professional setting, it was all about having fun. And, yeah, they were totally polar opposite. Kareem was studious and just thought the basketball game.

12:23Michael Cooper:And Magic was about, hey, man, we having fun out here. Let's go play. Let's score. Let's win. And he bought that winning attitude. So when you put those two together and they got together so easily, you know what? People thought it was going to be oil and water, but it became margarine and bread because magic just spread over the team, over Kareem. And he changed Kareem's outlook. And we knew Kat was going to always be there. We want him. But magic, we used to have so much fun in practice, man. When he was there, once magic got in, it was just enjoyable to be around.

12:53Jim Eisen:Well, that's a part of the leadership aspect of it too. when people talk about leadership, it's not always telling people what to do, but it's also being able to read the room and you handle each individual different because they're different personalities. It seems like Magic, it wasn't fake. It wasn't phony. The personality, he enjoyed it, but he was a fierce competitor. I think people see that smile and Magic doing all the stuff, but that was a deep dive, deep, fierce competitor within Magic Johnson.

13:22Michael Cooper:Well, you know what? Leaders sometimes lead by example, and that's what Magic did. He came in and his smile was infectious, but you know what? Sometimes the way he's smiling caught you off guard. But you got to remember, Magic came from Michigan State, 79, they won a championship. So that's all he knew was winning championships, even going back to every high school. So when he brought that to the NBA and brought that to our team and you know what? He wasn't a, he'd yell at you sometimes, but again, Magic was going to lead by example. We run the suicide, whatever running thing we had to do, three-player weed, Magic was always first, second, or third.

13:58Michael Cooper:And he was always trying to be first. But obviously myself and Byron Scott were a little bit faster. But he was going to always get out there and run as hard as he could. He was the first one to practice, the last one to leave, training camp. Whatever we did, any meetings we had, he was always there first. So it wasn't about the talk. And sometimes people tell you talk is cheap. Yes, it is. Because if you just talk in bravado and you don't walk the walk, Ain't nobody going to follow you. But Magic walked the – he talked the talk, and he walked the walk, and he was always there. And he was the reason why we became the team of the 80s, because he was not going to let that be any other way.

14:35Listen, it's funny because your team, you had individuals

14:39Jim Eisen:that had something that always stood out. Kareem had the skyhook with the goggles. James Worthy had the goggles. Magic had the smile and the passes. But you had something, too, that stood out, which was those high socks, the double high socks and everybody thought that you know that was a fashion statement but it was more to that high sock story than just putting on double socks and it's white on camera people

15:03Michael Cooper:could see you right what was behind it well what was behind it is uh in back going back to high school in 1974 my grandmother had glaucoma real bad and uh being with team of all african-american black players she goes michael you have to do something to distinguish yourself so i can tell you from the other players so that's when i came up okay let me pull my socks up high i wore two pair of high white socks i wore two white sweatbands and uh i wore my strings out of my shorts and i had the best game of my career i had 24 points 15 rebounds we won that game it was a televised game on tv first high school game of the week basketball in like five or six years at that time and I said you know what I'm sticking with this and I took that from high school to college

15:51Jim Eisen:all the way to the pros bro that's all I remember growing up watching uh the Lakers because I see you running with the socks and I see the cup a little but I see the defense but it stood out and it kind of made sense to me because I know you didn't do it for that purpose but it just fell in line with the Showtime Laker you know you see Coop out there with those high socks it just felt like LA. It felt like something special. I'm going to tell you, a lot of guys wore those socks like that. You doubled them up too, right? How many pair did you have on?

16:24Michael Cooper:Well, I came in the league wearing two pair. Okay. And I went out of the league wearing four. But then my legs, my calves were skinny. My leg was skinny. The high socks made my legs look bigger. So that was another reason. I kept them high socks going.

16:41Jim Eisen:So it was always a little fashion statement behind it. But listen, But during that time, too, people, I mean, younger generation, don't understand the 80s and how competitive it was because the game was different. It was a lot more physical, a lot more half court, outside of the way you guys played. Denver, at the time, liked to get the ball up to court. Seattle a little bit. But let's walk back through those battles, in particular with Boston, but you and Larry Bird. First, going into a game and when you know you had to come in and guard a Larry Bird. Walk me through that mindset of how you got yourself ready for that.

17:16Michael Cooper:Well, first of all, let's go back a little bit more. Because Larry Bird, Boston Celtic, Los Angeles Lakers rivalry started with Magic Johnson and Larry Bird at Michigan State and Indiana State. So when they came into the league, that rivalry was about Magic and Bird. I just happened to get in the way because I was on the defensive aspect of it.