The Cleveland Browns Quarterback Situation

22:22I think that's what Dave Canales is going to do with his starters. So it's going to be really interesting to see how that goes for the first couple of series. But the thing that Shador has done very well in practice, he's shown off his accuracy. see. That's his superpower in this competition. He led the FBS with a 74 percent completion percentage last year, and that has shown up in camp. The thing that he's had to work on and catch up on is all the pre-snap stuff that you have to do before you actually get to make that pass.

22:51Rich Eisen:Okay, so walk me through that. What's that learning curve been, and why do you think it's the case, Mary Kay? Well, I really just think that, you know, just in terms of calling the plays in the huddle and doing some of those things, he didn't necessarily have to do the graduate level stuff in college that some other quarterbacks do, depending on what kind of system that they're coming out of. So his transition to the pro game and some of those things was just a little bit steeper, that learning curve. But they've been bringing him up to speed. They've been spending extra time with him on those kinds of things.

23:29It takes a long time to figure out a terminology and to get that play call called in the huddle as fast as you possibly can and to ID and to slide the protections and call the motions and all those kinds of things. So he's really coming up the learning curve very, very well. But those are the kinds of things that he had to catch up on a little bit.

23:48Rich Eisen:Where do things stand with Pickett and Dylan Gabriel right now, Mary Kay Cavett? Right now, they are both dealing with hamstring injuries. It's so ironic. I've been asking Joe about this. How is the 40-year-old guy the only one that hasn't missed a snap? But Kenny and Dylan have those hamstrings, and they're not going to play in this game. They're not doing 11-on-11s right now. They didn't do them today in practice. They're limited to 7-on-7s. They're taking it easy with these guys. And this team is heading off to Philadelphia next week for two practices there and a game there. I don't see how you play Kenny Pickett in that game either if you're trying to get him to the season healthy.

24:26So in my mind, it's starting to look like Joe's job. We'll have to see how it plays out.

24:31Rich Eisen:Yeah, so the idea of bringing four into 53 is not going to happen, right, Mary Kay? No, I think it is going to happen. You do? Yes, I do. I think all four of these quarterbacks are going to make the team. I really do think that it's going to be a matter of Joe and Kenny getting things started off for this football team. And then I know that the Browns would love to see, if they can, Dylan Gabriel and Shador Sanders in some live action at some point this season. Because they have decisions to make next year. They've got two first-round picks. It's a rich QB class. And they're going to want to see what they have in Dylan and Shador.

25:09So at some point, I think they'll turn it over to the rookies.

25:12Rich Eisen:Mary Kay Cabot, a few minutes left here with the Cleveland Browns insider, covered the Browns for over 30 years here on the Rich Eisen Show. What else is happening with the Browns that we're clearly not talking about because we're so focused on who the quarterback is? Well, I'm going to stick with the quarterback room for another minute. So they brought in, they did, they brought in Tyler Huntley just yesterday. So he suited up, he practiced today, and he will relieve, he will relieve Shador in this game. But then I looked out there today, and for the first time, I saw Deshaun Watson out there on the practice field, just not in practice clothes because he's on PUP and he is still recovering from his retorn Achilles.

25:51But it was just weird to look out there and see six quarterbacks. You know the old saying, if you have six quarterbacks, you can have one. But Deshaun Watson was out there. And that just is an interesting twist to this whole thing, because I know he's determined to play and he's determined to join the mix at some point. I don't know if the Browns will ever let him do that. He's on PUP right now. I don't think he'll be even healthy until October or November. But to look out there and to see five quarterbacks in uniform practicing and then also Deshaun Watson, it was kind of a bizarre sight. I'm sure.

26:29Rich Eisen:I'm sure. Let's just linger there for a second. And I guess, you know, the future at the quarterback position in Cleveland is exactly why somebody brought up Arch Manning to Jimmy and Dee Haslam the other day. You know what I mean? Like it's, you know, as if who's starting week one and how do you get through the 18 game crucible of 2025 is not enough. You're looking over the steering wheel. Well, yeah. In addition to watching all of these quarterbacks this year, I really have to do something I usually don't have a lot of time to do, and that is hunker down and watch some college football on Saturdays too.

27:02So that's going to be a big point of emphasis, of course, for the Browns this season to see what Arch Manning is up to. Although when we asked Jimmy Haslam about him last week, he said he thinks Arch is going to stay in school for at least two years. And Jimmy would probably know because he knows the Manning family. very, very well. So that's his prediction that he might not be available to them, but it's not going to stop them from going to the games, from scouting him and from being very ready to pull the trigger if they need to on Arch. So obviously he's one that they'll watch. They'll watch all of the others.

27:39And, you know, they're really going to have an eye on that 26 QB class.

27:43Rich Eisen:How's my guy Mason Graham looking? He's looking good so far. It's fun to see him now in pads where he can really show his explosiveness. And the thing about Mason is that he's learning to do something that he didn't really do all that much at Michigan. And that is just see quarterback, get quarterback, just go for it. And, you know, just take the, you know, the leash off and go. So it's got to be pretty fun for him to be able to do that. The assignment is pretty clear. I thought you meant losing in Ohio because he didn't do that in college either. Mary Kay. I thought that's what you're referring to.

28:17Of course you would point that out.

28:19Rich Eisen:Sorry, I didn't mean to drag you to my level. Mary Kay, I didn't mean to do that. I mean, but thank you for the time. I greatly appreciate it. Let's do this again real soon. Sounds good. Thanks a lot. Yeah, there's Mary Kay Cabot with the latest in Cleveland, Bronx. There I am dragging other guests down to my level. Didn't do that in college either. Let me check that out. Oh, can confirm. Wow.

28:43Rich Eisen:What's wrong with you, man? O-H-N-O Oh, no. All right. So I want to know the latest there. You got the latest. Deshaun Watson's out there saying, hey, don't forget about me. Yeah, I'm still here. Don't you forget about me, right? Go Breakfast Club. Don't get me started. Don't sing. Listen. Listen. I don't blame him, man. He's got to be just like itching. To get out there. 100%. But he's not playing this year. He's not playing. It's going to be Flacco's gig. How about that? She says four quarterbacks are going to make it. That's an interesting way to put 53 men together. That is, you know, I would advise against that, but I'm not running the team.

29:26Okay, you're not.

29:26Rich Eisen:You might call yourself a linebacker or something that you might need. All right, another story I needed some insight on is the fact that right now, Caleb Williams is in the social media barrel. if this guy is not tying his shoelaces right everyone's saying oh he's a bust and Ben Johnson's not going to fix him and then you know if he throws an interception in practice or he's you know I don't know what that quarterback competition was where you got to throw it through these squares in a netting and he didn't nail any of them I mean I watched Hard Knocks last night Josh Allen was perfect he hit all of them you know what I mean Kevin Fishbane of the Athletic here on the Rich Eisen Show once again.

30:07Rich Eisen:Good to see you again. Kevin, how are you, sir? I'm good, Rich. How are you doing? What was that game that they were playing where he's trying to throw in these squares into the netting and he didn't get one of them in? What was that, Kevin? I mean, it could just be them trying to hit the target. It could then be trying to hit the pole. You know, the poles that are around it. There's different things you can do with that. I mean, you could say that you got to love Caleb's competitive fire and the way that he reacted to losing that battle. you can take it whenever it's a Rorschach test. I know, right?

30:39I mean, however you view Caleb.

30:42Rich Eisen:Exactly. That's how you view it. Right. When you say Rorschach test, you mean the people who are viewing it, not how Caleb should be viewed. So give me the real, what is happening in the development of Caleb Williams year two, where the head coach has been brought in to take him to the heights that we saw Jaden Daniels taken to last year, to be blunt, Kevin. Yeah. I mean, it's been bumpy. Like, you know, Ben Johnson told us on Sunday after the practice of Soldier Field that it was sloppy and that there were a bunch of delayed games. And, you know, we don't know exactly how much of that is on Caleb, but the quarterback's got to get the ball off.

31:19He's got to get that snap. And then they come back yesterday and they had this super competitive and physical practice. And Caleb was maybe as sharp as he's been all summer. And I wonder if just that competitive fire, not to mention just being a couple weeks into this, just got him in a rhythm where we saw some nice plays. Still, you know, a couple false starts. Again, not on him necessarily. But, you know, I think you look back at Jared Goff and it wasn't like Jared Goff was this instant sensation with Ben Johnson when Ben Johnson eventually took over play calling there in Detroit. It's just this give and take, Rich.

31:54And you know this about quarterbacks around the league, like the patience level. like how patient should everybody be with Caleb Williams because like I'm sitting here like as an observer I'm trying to be a little patient understand it's a new offense it's a new scheme but there's the other part of me and I can see it and I can get how Chicago fans can see this like they're like we've been here before you guys said this with Mitch Trubisky you guys said this with Justin Fields to give it time and all that stuff and then look what happened so there's this nervousness in town this tense feeling that after last year and seeing that camp maybe hasn't been as smooth as people maybe on the outside might have hoped.

32:32Everyone's worried, and so if he doesn't throw the ball to the net, suddenly it's panic time. But I'd like to see his play out, and I think, Rich, too, it's important to put some trust in Ben Johnson, that Ben Johnson has been brought here to put Caleb in the best position to succeed, and Ben Johnson has proven that he can do that, and now we see if he can do it with someone as gifted as Caleb Williams.

32:53Rich Eisen:Yeah, and the Seth Wickersham book that created, I'm sure, quite the media storm in your world as well, Kevin, is about to hit stores, and that might renew conversations about last year. And I'm referring to Caleb Williams and his dad having issues about being drafted by Chicago that they eventually overcame, and then the issues that happened in his first year only seem to confirm their belief that this might not be the best spot for him. Ben Johnson, best you can tell, has at least shown the way to the film room, right? I mean, not to be flippant, but that's changed already, I imagine. Right, Kevin?

33:34Yeah, yeah. I think it's just a different tone. It's a different situation here. You know, I got a chance to talk to Caleb Williams early on in camp, and he kind of walked me through a little bit of his day-to-day and how early he was showing up to the building, got his notebook out, the things that he's doing. I mean, it seems to be doing what you would expect. And that didn't happen last year?

33:56Rich Eisen:That was not what he was doing last year? It depends who you talk to, Rich, because I don't know. I never got the sense that this was – this is the problem in this city with this position that I think if you talk to people, maybe like Seth Wickersham did, that maybe the coaches weren't doing enough. And I think if you maybe talk to some people on that coaching staff, they might say, well, there's only so much we're supposed to do. You're a professional quarterback. You've got to figure it out, too. Either way, this guy, Ben Johnson, is the right guy to get all of this moving in the right direction.

34:33So I don't know exactly what that film study was like last year. But I think that, again, there's going to be different stories based on who you talk to. Either way, we can all agree last year was a disaster. It was exactly what Carl Williams and Caleb Williams were worried about, as you said. And now you get to kind of start over. And I do think that quarterback room too, Rich, having Case Keenum in there, who's been in this league for a long time, and having Tyson Bajant in there, who is, you know, everybody loves the guy here as he battles Case Keenum for that backup quarterback job. I think it's a good composition in that room to kind of help Caleb Williams and get him where he needs to be.

35:11Rich Eisen:Well, I mean, and the reason why I keep returning to the past, Kevin, is really that's the only way that we can try and figure out the future and to see how that's a prologue in any way. Right. Because right now we're just seeing cut ups on on on our phones where Caleb appears to be struggling more often than not, whether that's fair or not. It probably isn't. But the idea is, is this coach the right guy to do it? Is this setup the right setup to do it? Is this roster as ready as we thought it was last year and has been improved on the line since then? And those are the only questions we have until we see the first Monday night game of the season in Soldier Field against, by the way, the Vikings, who won 14 games last year, and a quarterback who was chosen nine picks later by the Minnesota Vikings getting his first shot.

36:08Rich Eisen:And if he comes out looking more polished, despite having, you know, obviously Justin Jefferson and other weapons around him, that's going to be, I think, front and center for the Tuesday after week two for you, Kevin, right? That's it. I was going to say, Rich, you're going to have to do overreaction Tuesday for that one. Ladies and gentlemen, Kevin Fish being talking our language. Not to step on anyone's toes in your studio there. I appreciate that. Because you're right. I mean, that matchup, if J.J. McCarthy has a great game, and if Caleb Williams doesn't have a great game, I can't even imagine what the reaction is going to be in this city, in Minnesota, across the NFL.

36:46But when you bring up the Ben Johnson element of it, and I'm saying this as someone who's on their fifth head coach as a beat reporter. And shoot, you just brought me on after Mary Kay. I don't even want to. I can't compete with her. She's holding your beer, Kevin. That's true. That's true. I don't want to compete with what she's had to deal with there. But if Ben Johnson's not the right coach, it's like you kind of sit there and be like, well, who could be? I mean, this guy is everything that this team has wanted, everything that multiple teams have wanted. And I do wonder, Rich, like Ben Johnson, he's details, details, details, details.

37:25And how does that work with Caleb Williams, who does some amazing things off script? But the thing about Caleb Williams is he does want to be in the pocket. He wants to sit there in the pocket and get the snap and go and make his reads, go through his progressions. And last year he was out of the pocket a lot because of the offensive line in front of him and a lot because he would maybe exit too early. So I just think that you always hear coaches say, I am going to tailor this game plan to my players. I'm not going to make them just fit what I want to do. And look, you just hope that Ben Johnson seems like the guy who's going to do that, who understands that, who's going to help put him in his position.

38:01He's got this offensive line now with Joe Tooney and Drew Dahlman and Jonah Jackson in front of him in the interior. You have Colson Loveland, who, by the way, you talk about guys who have looked pretty good at camp, Rich, and I don't know if you're familiar with this Colson Loveland. Yes, sir. Went to a decent, decent university I'm familiar with. He's looked good. And you can see why the Bears would have want him in this offense because of the target he's going to give to Caleb Williams. And he's smooth in and out of his routes, and he catches everything thrown his way. So there's a lot to like about this.

38:32But I go back to the top, Rich. It's that level of patience. And is it fair to look at this as like, OK, you're starting over Caleb Williams. I know it's your second year. But it's the NFL. It's just so hard to be patient with these guys now. And you look at the roster around Caleb Williams, and you look at what he did in college. You want him to just take off with Ben Johnson. And it's going to be a very interesting season to see what that relationship is like. Because as I said, training camp has not been super smooth, but maybe it shouldn't be. Because this is a brand new, very detailed Arlington scheme that he's got to figure out the same way Jared Goff did.

39:07Rich Eisen:So when do we see him? Do we see him in preseason at all? Or the first time we see Caleb in this is Monday Night Football, week one? What do you think? I think the joint – I originally thought, Rich, that the joint practices would be, you know, Ben Johnson's got two of them lined up. You've got Miami coming out Friday, Buffalo a week from Friday. And it certainly seems like those joint practices are going to be so intense that they might not need to see in the preseason game. I think he should get out there for a couple of series. I mentioned the delay games that we've seen in camp, the fall starts we've seen.

39:36I just think they need to get the operation figured out in a game setting. And they're going to do their best to simulate that in joint practices. But I think it's fair to try to do that at Soldier Field a couple times as well. So I don't think we'll see him a ton because it just doesn't – It seems like Ben Johnson puts a lot in these joint practices, but I think you've got to get him out there just for a couple series in those games.

39:58Rich Eisen:All right, Kevin, thanks for the information and the idea. Chris Brockman, Overreaction Tuesday. We'll set that up. Well, of course, we do Monday on a Tuesday anyway during the radio. Yeah, I mean, I guess that would be September 9th. Write it down. Thank you for the idea, Kevin. We'll write that down, and we'll chat again real soon. All right, take care. By the way, I look forward to appearing on your pod. I'll do that later in the month. I know that we've been going back and forth. I look forward to returning the favor. Appreciate that, Rich. You got it. That's Kevin Fishbane, everybody. He's been with the Athletics since 2017.

40:30Rich Eisen:He's been there, done that, seen five. Five head coaches. I've even forgotten who they would be. I mean, obviously, Ben Johnson, E. Reflews. Nagy. Nagy. Who's prior to Nagy? With John Fox, right? Foxy? Are you going back to Foxy? My gosh. Hold on, I'm looking this up now. I mean, Bears fans are probably screaming at their radio or televisions right now. What'd you say? I said Mike Ditka. Okay. Yeah, Fox and Trestman. You're still trying to jump your battery over there. Trestman was 2014. What'd you say? Trestman was 2014. Rude. Well, he's been in the Athletics since 2017, but if he goes back to 2014.

41:12Rich Eisen:Yeah, well, 2017 was Fox's last year. So it's Trestman, Fox, Nagy. No, it would have just been, for Fishbane, it would have been Fox, Nagy, Eberflus, and then. Well, you said it's five, so he goes back to Trestman. Thomas Brown interim. Oh, okay, there you go. I got it. Yeah. Kendall Williams had a new situation in the pros where apparently they're like, you're a pro, you need to figure this out yourself. He needed some help. He wasn't getting it. And the offensive coordinator gets bounced. Then the coach gets bounced. Then the new offensive coordinator who had never been an OC before and a play caller before is apparently your new OC.

41:47Rich Eisen:And then now he's the new HD in interim. That ain't working. So now here comes Ben Johnson. And we will see. Oh my goodness gracious. All of the storylines, right? All of them. That week one game is so good. The Monday night, all right? To finish. So good. Vikings at Bears. Division game. 14-win team with the reigning coach of the year. The quarterback whisperer with a kid who has yet to do it. had the same draft and the same draft class as Caleb Williams. It's so good. And now Caleb has got a fresh start. J.J. McCarthy, fresh start. Here we go together. Ben Johnson, KOC. Two play callers who are apparently, not apparently, who industry-wide considered one of the best.

42:32Rich Eisen:What a first game for ESPN on Monday Night Football. ABC and everybody else.

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44:30Grab your phone and do me a favor. Don't unlock it, but show us what do you have as your... already. What's your lock screen on your phone? What's is it a picture? What's it of? Yeah, hold up. Let me show you. It's a biggie. Oh, we got biggie. We got biggie. Good one. And then question. I'm assuming do you normally do your face ID? I do not. You don't do face ID? Oh, you know, this man's wasting hours of his life every day. Is it a six digit code or four digits? The unlock this four. Four. That's not that secure. All right. You know what? Just you know what? I was going to the ATM, but I I like the challenge right here.

45:08Okay. Before I come over there, I see you got some, rub the fingerprints off. Haters always tell me later, fingerprints. Gotta be fingerprints. I'm coming over for a second. Oh my goodness. Can I get in the shot? I might swing. What is happening? Oh, careful. All right, all right. All right. Can we see Biggie? Can we get a close up shot?

45:29Rich Eisen:Let's see if we get Biggie. Is it jib? Somebody's getting tight. Tight. There we go. I got it. I go here, it's locked. He wasn't lying. Hold out your finger. Think of the first number. Of my code? Yeah, not my code unless you're a mentalist. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0. OK. I thought of it. No, I know you did. I'm trying to figure it out. Think of the next number. Does it get bigger? Does it get smaller? Same. Does it move over? Right, left. Oh, look at you not moving. Look at you not flinching. Think of the second number, third number. OK, hold up. Hold up. Hold up. This is just like in the movies when you see somebody trying to crack a lock, pick a lock.

46:04But instead of hearing the click, I can feel it this body. Think of the last number. TJ, what do I know about TJ? Open your eyes. They weren't closed. TJ. Are they supposed to be closed? TJ, no, you're good, you're good. You gave it away with your eyes. I can see in your soul. I think he likes to get in and out of the phone quick. You have a four-digit code. You've got to type this in a million times a day, no Face ID. You're doing a code that you can do quick. Do you care if they find out your code? I'll change it if they... All right. If you don't mind, I'm going to show them. The first number's a one.

46:32Can we get tighter just so we can see this?

46:34Rich Eisen:Let's get in there. There it is. The next number is a six. Kidding. Look at his face, how he got. Look at that. You went back to the one. Can you see me close? That's the two. That's the two. We're inside. Oh!

46:51Rich Eisen:Do not pack up! Do not pack up!

46:59Rich Eisen:He's gone! come on do not pack up come on you're not gonna see him again today folks sorry he's out he's out tj jefferson running a wheel route off the rich eisen show super bowl set in new orleans louisiana is one of my favorite moments and a perfect opportunity to tell everybody you must tune in to Thursday's Rich Eisen show in hour number three when our in-studio guest here in Los Angeles, California, is O's the Mentalist. Returning to this program, TJ Jefferson's favorite warlock is back in his world tomorrow. We do not know what he's got planned. We don't know the caper. We don't know the Lufthansa heist he's got working on.

47:51Rich Eisen:No, you're not. You don't know I could catch him. No, and I know your loaner car is going to have a new battery. The other car is going to break down. Oh, my arm. You never know. Oh, wait a minute. Oh, my God. Mule's car needs a new carburetor. It doesn't. Let's go. I can't wait. Oh, God, that's going to be amazing. Great show. Great show. Level of concern, one, two, hair on fire of the Chicago Bears quarterback offense situation. Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams, 1 to 10. Hair on fire is 10. Christopher? None of us have hair. Six. TJ Jefferson? Five. I'm lower than that. I'm lower than that. Zero evidence to be lower than that.

48:44Rich Eisen:I have zero evidence to be lower than that. Ben Johnson alone is going to be an upgrade for the kid. Alone. No doubt. Okay. No doubt. Alone. and say what you will about Caleb Williams, and a lot of people do, he's given every indication he wants to be coached hard. And don't forget, last year, the crucible of last year, the dreadfulness of last year, everything that was going on behind the scenes where everything that had happened had given credence to all the concerns he and his dad had prior to the draft. All of that was happening. Getting his ass beat. And he said nothing. there wasn't a single flash at a press conference where it was, woe is me, feel bad for me.

49:36Rich Eisen:Never once did he give you an indication of you have no idea what's going on around here. And me, my dad and I, we knew it. We didn't want to be here. But we did. And look at it now. I'm right. Everybody else is around here wrong. How many people in this world today not to get writ large but i will it seems part and parcel of our world it's never somebody's fault it's always someone else's fault it's always look what's being done to me it is a culture of grievance that we live in right now for so many people from leadership on down a lack of accountability of my bad or yes this was done improperly i will admit this is not the way it should be done i will admit it's not the way that we do things but i'll my bad and this kid one million percent had every right to say it's not my fault folks and he never once did it so here comes a guy who's going to coach him hard and give him a whole ton of stuff and i will just ignore a lot of these videos will it happen during the season Yes, but does that mean he's toast?

50:50Rich Eisen:He's finished? I'm confident that this guy, Ben Johnson, is the right guy. And the Bears are getting it right. And they got talented people. The line has improved, right? And the light is going to be on a little bit better for Caleb Williams. You just got to get him playing faster. Got to get him playing more confident. And let's see the off-script stuff. Like, that's what got him a Heisman in many ways. True. And Ben can scheme it up, and let's hope he coaches it up. And the kid's taking the coaching. He took the beating last year. Beating. And a lot of the beating that he took was something that he saw coming.

51:41Rich Eisen:And he never once said, I saw it coming, and wore it on his sleeve. and you also didn't do that there either was justin fields

51:55Rich Eisen:so i'll read into it with with caleb williams that this is going to work out i'll give it a number of three two and a half to three a solid rating oh we'll chat it a second to wrap it up on Roku. You want to impress them on a first date, but also play it cool. So what do you do? I'm Rufy Thorpe, and I wrote and read a real love story about a hinge couple that navigated exactly that. Listen to the free audiobook now.