The Jim Jackson Show: Shawn Stockman of Boyz II Men

29:22I was across the board as a child. So meeting three other guys that felt the same way I did, I was like, yo, we don't want to be just an R &B band. We want to be a group that everybody loved and appreciated, which is why I think it resonated with black, white, or other. Because our sensibilities expanded further than just R &B music. Did that help? Because we all have challenges within the group dynamic. I don't care if it's at work, if it's sports, whatever it is. We see it all the time with bands that are together that break up. I don't care if it's hip-hop. Shout out to the locks for staying together as long as they have without having any kind of riffs or problem.

30:09And that's difficult to do, right? And still doing solo projects. And still doing solo projects. But yet, I mean, that's a testament to how difficult was that one from a group perspective? You know, the dynamics of a group. When you have individual goals you want to set for yourselves and get. Okay, one. And that goes into what are the biggest challenges being in that group dynamic when you have performers? Is there a competition, too, within the group? Oh, no. You know, that, I hate to sound boring, but we never had those problems. Really? No. Because everybody had their own superpower. Wanya did Wanya.

30:57and everybody knows what Wanya is known for doing. I'm not doing that. You're not doing it. I do what I do and everybody knows me for doing what I do. Mike at the time with his voice. Wasn't nobody doing that in the group. Wasn't nobody doing that. You know what I'm saying? Wasn't nobody that deep. Yeah, and Nate was basically the utility dude outside of him also being the guy that wanted to make sure that we were straight so he took on the business part of it more so than everybody else. So he made sure So everybody had their roles. It's like the Avengers. Hawkeye ain't trying to fly like Thor.

31:33He can't do that. You know what I'm saying? He did what he did. So we never really had that problem. If anything, we were more supportive of what it is that we did. You should do that more, or you should kind of just giving each other advice from a fan's perspective. Because being in that group, you're a fan of the people that you're in the group with. So you're like, yo, that's dope. You should do X, Y, and Z. So we honestly, we never had those issues, man. I know that that doesn't sound provocative enough for most people. But if anything, we had more issues with people from the outside. Meaning?

32:15Meaning, as I mentioned, we gained a lot of success. We sold over 60 million records. and you can't sell that many records to just black people, right? You can't go platinum with just black people. Yeah. You can't do it. You can't do it. You can't do it. Like, you know, there's a certain level that you can do, like platinum, double platinum, maybe even triple. But after you get out of that, you're appealing to other people. And because of that, our own people would, yeah, man, they sellouts, man. I'm telling you. Like what? Like what was the premise behind being the sellout? You got to ask them.

32:57But what did you hear? I mean, what was the type of music y 'all doing? Like, you know, like just honestly, I hate to say it, but like hater shit. Like the shows that we were in, the shows that we were on, you see, you know, four black folk, four black people smiling. They instantly think, oh, look at that. Yeah. They sold out. They doing this, they rubbing elbows with this, that person, the whole nine yards. When it's not selling out, it's really people hating and really not understanding. And these are industry people and industry people not understanding what they what we're doing is really helping them out.

33:38Because once we're in those doors, it allows everybody else to walk in behind us. And this is what our whole objective was. Like we wanted to take things to another stage and to show that black music isn't monolithic. Like we, we can do any and everything and still maintain our blackness. Jimmy, you know me. So it ain't nothing for me to prove as far as like the type of person I am. You understand what I'm saying? Ain't got nothing to do with that. But again, we have more resistance from people in the industry that had their opinions about us because we weren't hood enough. because we didn't wear our pants down off our ass and get in trouble or getting to like it's it's some weird uh you know some weird camaraderie with our folks that if you ain't thugging or if you ain't doing something crazy you ain't repping you ain't you ain't repping the culture you know How much is that, how much is that you think the success of New Edition?

34:43Okay, because of, you know, of course they were earlier, you know, late 70s, early 80s, stuff like that. You know, they still resonate to this day. I mean, but they have a different, their demographic is different in what they reach. How much of that do you think, and is there a competition between different groups? Because New Edition kind of set the standard on boy groups. Yeah. But they kind of had their own lane. And I don't know if it spread out as much as yours. You may have resonated Boyz II Men more with the general population, where theirs is more segmented. Is that true? Yeah. I mean, and a lot of it has to do with the music, and then a lot of it has to do with the dynamic of the group within itself.

35:30Prime example. Yeah, I mean, prime example of that, though, is Bob, right? Bob left the group and sold more records than his group. He was still Bobby Brown. Right. But somehow he managed to understand something that his group as a collective didn't. Which is why when they were on tour, and by the way, Bobby Brown will be on my podcast. Way to plug it. What's the name of the podcast? The podcast is called On That Note. Yeah, On That Note. Sean Stockman and Bobby Brown actually talks about this. We talk about how his mentality changed once he went solo because he understood the mistakes the group made as a collective, went on his own, and did the exact opposite, which is why Bobby Brown sold 50 million records.

36:26Wow. Say that again. 50 million records and new edition sold maybe a 10th. Wow. And, and, and, and a lot of times that's what that is. And shout out to new edition. They're one of the greatest groups on the entire planet earth. But I think that a lot of what happens in a group's dynamic is lack of vision. They don't really understand. Is that part management too though? Because the group can have one thing, But if management doesn't have the vision to where to steer this group. A manager can only be as good as the artist he has. Right. Period. Like, it's just like an agent. We're an athlete. That's true.

37:09You understand what I'm saying? Agent, they only do so much. They only do so much. They only do so much. They're not in the limelight. They're not putting up the points. They're not on the hardwood. You have to do what you have to do in order for your agent to go do what he has to do. So it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, agents and managers, if you have one that obviously some that are reputable, it allows you to go through certain doors. That's the same thing with agents. They have better relationships with GMs. Rich Paul got the hammer when the brim was leverage. He could leverage a lot.

37:44He could walk in any door. You know what I'm saying? But it's because of the work that his boy put in. And that's really, it goes hand in hand. So going back to your question, competition, that competition thing is fodder for the fans. Like the fans love to compete and say who's better and who's this and who's that. And to be honest, none of us feed into that. Because one, I know as far as my group's perspective, we don't compare ourselves to anybody. like did and this is not a flex there is no comparison currently is there you know we had the old school group back in the 50s and 60s that were just whether that's Temptations Temptations and Four Tops for example you know what I mean they had a friendly competition because one they were on the same label and they had the same producers they had the same songwriters so yes honestly they were probably more in competition with each other like in real life because they had to make sure that they one-upped the other being in the same system so but it was friendly still like it was still and and they marketed that that way like so it was kind of like and even with with us and jodeci right like a lot of people like to compare who's better and things that nation is it's really all a matter of taste music is subjective like you know what one person may like another person may not and that's your opinion that's your prerogative and that's your choice but as far as the both groups is concerned we were just kind of we were all boys like it was there was no like animosity or any bitter hatred or anything like that but you had team boys to men and you had team jodeci and everybody would ride for their group that whole thing and if anything it it benefited both groups and but the truth is we both respected each other i respect new addition i respect jodeci I respect these guys for doing what they do.

39:48But the truth of the matter is, is we're all different. And we all represent different parts of the same body. And that's the way I look at it. You know, it's the growth part of it, too. And I look at it because the longevity. It's all about, and this is what I always say about musicians and about music. As an athlete, I have an expiration date as far as what I can do. Right, right. Now, you can go play in the big three right now. Don't get me wrong. You can still play. But on that top tier level, in my day, once I'm done playing, I'm done playing. Once I get 50, I'm out. The beauty about musicians to me, especially when you have timeless music, when you have something iconic, or even if maybe you're not the Boyz II Man or your Maya Carey's or whoever it may be, you still can go out and perform and still command an audience.

40:39That's the beautiful thing about, I see with musicians, is that you don't have to come out with new music when you have that fan base built in. That's true. That's true. That's where the work ethic on both entities, the artist and the management, comes in. Because there was a time where people weren't checking for us. Like after, I think it was around 97, 98, I think people were just tired. They wanted to go somewhere else. They wanted to shift. And again, music is subjective. How did it make you feel at the time? all useless because we were on top of the world not too long ago. And then people are telling you, literally telling you, because we had a songwriter at the time, a famous songwriter who we know he is.

41:26I'm not going to like mention his name, but he was like, you know what y 'all should do? Y 'all should just gracefully bow out. Really? Yeah. This is three years removed from 94 from two Grammys, all of this, three years removed. You're telling me that I should just go somewhere and die. And like, when you hear that, you're like, damn, that's kind of, that's kind of jacked up. I mean, my voice still works. Like I'm trying to figure out like, why, why do I got to go somewhere and just disappear? And, and, and, but that's, that's the emotional connection that people have with music. And you got to understand that.

42:03You don't understand it when you're going through it at the time, but music is, is, is personal. So a lot of people take things personal when it comes to certain things. That's why it's such a big backlash, for example, with this whole Kendrick and Drake thing or whatever. Like it's emotion. It really is emotion. That drives people to say, I don't like this guy or I don't like that guy. But the truth is they're both great musicians. They're both talented artists. They both have different lanes. That's my point. They can coexist together if, one, they stay out of each other's way. and do what they're known for doing.

42:43They can both exist. They can both work. So, again, you have to understand that, though. But it's rough at first. You're not feeling as confident as you used to because people are tired of listening to you. Replace your worn-out wiper blades during O 'Rewards Member Appreciation Month at O 'Reilly Auto Parts. Receive two times O 'Rewards points and save$10 when you purchase a pair of Rain-X Latitude Wiper Blades. They will even install them for free at O 'Reilly Auto Parts. It's Saturday. Kickoff's getting close, and your weekend project just hit a wall. You're short on materials, or you need one more tool for the job.

43:22Turns out that quick fix needs a quick assist. That's the perfect time to call an audible with express delivery from the Home Depot. Order in the app or online. Get what you need delivered fast and track updates along the way so you can finish your project in time for the first snap. Get what you need even faster with express delivery from The Home Depot. Subject to availability, restrictions, and fees apply. Does that put more pressure? Say you want to get in the studio, you want to start writing. Yeah. Yeah. How much more pressure? Before, you can write freely, mind, and say, you know, really, now you feel the pressure, the pen, to be able to say, okay, now we need a hit.

44:01Right. Yeah. Whereas before you were writing to make great music. And that's the worst place to be in when it comes to writing. Like when you have subconsciously everybody else's opinions, that's when you mess up. And that's when you do things that you shouldn't be doing. You're trying to catch what kids now go viral and try to catch a wave and all this other stuff where instead of just being yourself, you're trying to be everybody else. And we went through that period. We went through that period of trying to find our own identity in the changing music industry. So we got to a point where we're like, man, fuck it.

44:43Let's just be ourselves. And we didn't record for a while. And if we did, we recorded music that we liked. We released it. Didn't do well. It's all good. We have fun. And it takes a while, though, to get there from people liking you to then people not saying, I don't like them no more. I'm tired of hearing them. I'm tired of hearing that damn end of the road. I heard it a million times. We heard all of that. But you came in between there, though, because Hey Lover was after that. Yeah, yeah. So you dropped it. I mean, still to this day, it's still banging. So even though you were out of the light, every now and then it pops up with something here just to kind of keep.

45:25Yeah. And we did that. And we've been doing it. Like just, just last year we, we won, uh, we won, uh, the, the, the competition for the Masked Singer. Like we did that last year. Like we were like three Buffaloes and whatnot and, and, and, and sang and won that. And that's a big show. So it was like, Juan was on Dance with the Stars and, and we would do like little things like we did like stuff for How I Met Your Mother and, you know, and, and Black-ish and, you know, we just kept ourselves busy at the same time, still performing and still keeping ourselves sharp performance wise, where we can still perform anywhere.

46:05We just did the Essence Festival. You know what I'm saying? But it takes time. If you can ride out the transition, and especially if you made a big impact, the music industry works in cycles. And this is what people don't understand. People love what they love. They don't love it anymore. Then they love it again. It's weird. but it's just the way it is. It is so funny how kids, my daughter, Brooklyn, who 15 years old is into Wu-Tang. Crazy. Like she loves Wu-Tang. She loves Wu-Tang. She loves MF Doom. Like she's listened to old school hip hop. And I'm like, this, this isn't my influence. She's discovering it on her own.

46:52So she's like, daddy, can I play my playlist on while we drive? Yeah. yeah and she'll pump some some old boom bap and i'm sitting there like where'd you learn that and and and these kids are discovering this on their own again it's coming back around because it always comes back around if it's good music it it might lay dormant for a second because people are transitioning to something new and that's happened that's human that happens we all change but one thing that remains constant is good music just like again i you you one of the greatest basketball players ever lived jimmy so you've seen a lot of that transition too in sports especially in the nba i'm a fan of basketball right i've never played any professional ball in my life but i'm emotionally connected with it because i love i grew i played street ball and And, you know, I love the sport.

47:50And I think what's coming back around, you can correct me, is I think people are tired of the current status of specifically the NBA. Like it's become less about the players per se and more about the image of it. Like, for example, the three ball thing. like it's literally changed the algorithm of the game like back in the 90s it was about that blue collar work oh yeah post work yeah inside out inside out mid-range game mid-range slam dunks aggression the whole defense physical defense the whole nine yards and the nba got away from that and my opinion i think it hurt him well well i'm gonna stop you there it helped because it grew the game internationally and for a whole new crop of people that came in to see the game.

48:50Because David Stern understood that in order to grow this game, to get TV rights in Africa and China and India, the game had to change. It couldn't be this physical. It needed to score more. You see it in baseball, you need more home runs. In football, you need more touchdowns and more passes. So the running back became irrelevant. So I think it had its place and time to change. But I think this year with OKC and with Indiana, deep teams, not relying on the three ball. Defensive minded. Still want to get out and run, but can operate in half court. Like you talked about kind of coming back. Yeah.

49:29Using bigs inside. It's coming back around. It comes back. You know, it's interesting. I saw, Sean, that they did this thing. I don't know where the statistic was. these older these groups that were back in the day are now coming together and touring and are selling out more than whether that's hip-hop or r &b are selling out more than the current music environment yeah and i was just like and i'm watching that and i'm just like you know because at the end of the day jimmy when it comes to a show we want to see a show you want to see a show You don't want to see a fool just standing on stage or walking back and forth, singing over a vocal track.

50:12That's not a performance. Just like, again, going back to back, if I saw another three-pointer, I was going to throw the remote at the television set. I'm so tired. I was so tired. You can ask Saran. We would watch the game like, yo, I'm out, man. I'm not watching this no more. It's no one's physical anymore. Even down to the actual physiques of the players. Like, you know, you were a big dude. You know what I mean? You were a big dude. You had muscles. You know what I'm saying? And because you being a— But that was the game then. But that was the game. But my point is, I think it's the reason why it's not as a lawyer.

50:53And again, it's my opinion. I'm a fan of the game. You're old, man. I'm old. You're old. So I've seen the Chris Webbers and the Jordans and the bad boys and all that other stuff. So I'm used to seeing that type of physicality in the NBA. You know, I remember Shaq used to tell me stories about how the stuff we don't see. Like when he's under the rim, dudes is tugging at his balls and elbowing them and the whole night. You're like really getting at him. He's like, dude, it's physical out there. I'm used to big ticket, you know, and his whole mentality and a whole nine yards. I grew up on that, but that's the essence of basketball.

51:40I think so. And I think that's why it's coming back because everybody's not meant to be Steph. Steph does that. He's the greatest shooter the NBA has ever seen. And that's his wheelhouse. And you got a couple others that's good at it too. But the point is that there's always one guy that changes the game. There's always one character that changes the game, whether culturally or literally. And Steph was one of those guys, but it just ruined it for a fan, as a fan of the NBA. Let me bring it back to music, and I'm going to tell you why it's a correlation here. Okay. Because growing up in the 80s and 90s, you were at that formative age where watching sports, whether in watching music, whether that's watching television with the Jeffersons, whether it's what's happening, those moments stick with you because you are growing through the formative time in your year.

52:36So you always go back to that. Even when you get older, the game changes. You're like, man, back, same thing with music. Music to me, you can go back and play certain songs and it takes you back to a certain time in your life, a period of time, good or bad, and it's nostalgic. it. Now, as the game itself and like music, I can't be mad at some of these young guys, the way they play, because that's all they know. I get it. And the beauty of it is, is when they learn to appreciate what was come before them. And you can do both. You can love what's going on, but don't disrespect. That's it. That's it.

53:19And that's the thing that correlates with the music. Just like you said, like I encourage innovation. Keep changing it. Keep switching it up. Do all that other stuff. But you got to understand that the things that were done for you before is how you pull it to this. You got, you have to go back in history. You have to understand what made the game what it is in order for you to innovate and go back and, or rather and do something different. It's the same reason why for example, Beyonce is successful, not just because of what she does now, but the legacy she created. Legacy means something that has longevity.

54:00And Beyonce has not been shy with telling, I'd reach back. She's Tina Turner. She's Etta James. She's Aretha Franklin. She's artists that you've heard before. That's why she's successful, because it's something that you've seen before. Her energy is like Janet. It's yeah. You've already connected with it. So it's the same thing with basketball, same thing with music. You cannot go forward if you, you know, what's that phrase? Two steps forward, one step back. Yeah, or you can't move forward without understanding the past. You know what I'm saying? Or something like that. You know what I mean? So you have to connect with the past.

54:41There's no way that you can make the game greater without understanding what made the game great. Like, it's one of those things where with music, like, again, I encourage artists to keep pushing the envelope and doing different things. But don't take the counsel from the OGs who's trying to teach you. Okay, cool. You got this hot record. Don't you want to last longer than three summers? Somebody's got to teach you that. So you talked about the longevity and coming back. Do you see music coming back to where you saw groups and bands really coming back and being at the forefront again? Or is it still going to be fragmented?

55:26I hope so. But it has to start. It has to change infrastructurally first. I'm up top. Yeah. The way the industry and the way we as people consume music now has changed so much. The experience of buying music. It's changed. It's changed. Going to the record store, bro. Going to a record store. Going in line and buying the CD and ripping out the cardboard. No, no, going back to the album. Going back to the album when they had the actual lyrics on the inside. The liner notes, the thank yous. You know, taking 20 minutes for you to rip off the plastic. Because they rapped that shit like it was like.

56:07It was like you sitting there like, dude, you're trying to burn off the plastic. And then once you got it open, you put the CD in the CD. You put, you put, you put a CD player, you hit play. You opened up the line of notes. You saw what your favorite artist was wearing the whole night. It was, it was an experience to buy music. Nowadays it's just boop, click it. And, and, and that's it. So infrastructurally, the, the experience has to change because again, yes, things do change, but there are certain things in order to acquire a certain level of success. It has to stay the same. There is a basis.

56:46There is a foundation to everything. Music, the NBA, MLB, the whole nine yards. It is. And that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying don't shoot the three ball. Just don't shoot the three ball all damn game. Jesus. So if a dude shoot 18 times, you know, dudes shoot 18 times, and 11 of those 18 shots, 12 of those 18 shots would be three. Jimmy, you're an announcer. I know. Trust me. You've seen it. I'm close in person. You've literally seen a team on a break. All right? Spread out. Transition. Spread out the three. Spread out the three. And got the clear lane. But that's how they're being taught, though.

57:26No. I know, but that's what I'm saying. Go to the bucket. Two points is better than zero. Well, we saw that in the championship. Those twos add up, right? And speaking of twos adding up, with you and the group and all the success, that's allowed you to also pursue your own individual stuff. Whether that's on TV. And now, this is the second time from a solo perspective. You talked about it earlier, but within the group, you still can have the opportunity to do your solo project. And I know that's something near and dear with you. That's why I wanted you to bring the guitar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can pick that thing up if you want to.

58:09Oh, Lord. Go and pick that thing. I really don't know what the man was. No, no. So I don't know if you remember, when you and Sharonda was getting married, and we were back in Toledo. They got married in Toledo because Sharonda, I grew up, his wife. That's right. And we had the party at the house. And I said, man, you got to come to the piano and play this song. So it was doing just fine. And you got on the piano and played the piano. I said, bro, if I was a chick, the draws would have been yours right now. When you start playing on the piano. But the solo part, and you really got into the guitar.

58:43I know that's one of the things that you love to do instrumental-wise. What makes the guitar so special to you? Oh, that right there, huh?

59:03I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Alright, okay. The coat, man! But, um... Piano was my first instrument It was an instrument that I learned because it was one of those things that when you're in school, there's always a piano around. Yeah, always. Always a piano. Yeah, so as a musician, you're always... Yeah. So I started playing that first. And then I started playing. I've always wanted to play the guitar, and I started as a kid, but then just lost interest. The teacher wasn't inspiring enough. I guess but it really is but I picked it back up at 42 years old and I was like you know what I was in my what they call it the fuck it 40 where you know you kind of like just go you know what fuck it and I literally slept with this thing and now we incorporate it in our live shows and stuff so you know this is one of those things where I just it's easy to carry especially for a songwriter Can't carry a piano?

1:00:34It's a little hard It's a little hard to carry a piano You can't put it in the overhead No, not at all But yeah, it's easy to carry and it just sounds beautiful I've always loved the sound

1:01:00б

1:01:22прил余慨 конц об

1:01:30Oh I should달 song

1:02:07Thank you.

1:02:32See, that's the thing. Hoops all you want. When musicians get to sing it, it's over, bro. See, because you control the emotions of a crowd so much. I was able to see Shade, her last tour, and the way she controlled with a three-piece band, but the stage production. But she took you from this high where you're up and you're dancing to this where it's quiet as a pin drop. Yeah. And I had goosebumps. No. It is one of the greatest feelings to be on stage and to know that you can positively manipulate a person's feelings just with how you bend the air. Because that's all sound is, just bending the air.

1:03:26You know what I'm saying? in the room. Oh, sorry. And, you know, when you understand that power, you don't take it for granted. Again, that's why I look at people funny, musicians in particular, when they're like, oh man, I'm just a musician. I don't force people to do anything. To some degree you do. You do. To some degree you do. It's the reason why there's playlists for different occasions. Whether it's making love, whether it's your workout playlist, whether it's your... celebration playlist, whether it's your funeral playlist, your heartbreak playlist. Like you, you are, you are a, I guess, emotion monger.

1:04:08You know what I'm saying? In the sense of what is played through the speakers is how people are going to feel. That's why you can't go to a hip hop concert and play Metallica. You know what I'm saying? It's a reason. So I enjoy what I do, Jimmy. I love what I do. Me and the guys still love what we do. And again, we don't take it for granted, which is why we're still in it. This was never a hustle for us. This was never a thing we were just doing to make money or to catch a wave or to go viral. And by the way, you know, viral, one of the words in viral is virus, right? You don't necessarily want to always be a virus.

1:04:55Because there's two things that happens to viruses. Either the virus spreads and it kills everybody. Or you kill the virus. Or you kill the virus. So it's okay to be viral. But guys, that's not what makes a career. You got to have some substance. You got to have music that connects with all people. and not just a certain group of people. A lot of people tend to really misconstrue that in the business, in industry people. I hear them talk about it all the time, extrapolate about what black music is and what this music is and things of that nature. And let's be clear, black music is everything because we invented everything.

1:05:43So if you got a black person that wants to play punk, play it. If you want to play country, play it. You want to play hip-hop, play it. R &B, play it. Pop music, play it. It's cool. Don't let anybody tell you that you can't do something because that's the beginning of your demise right there. You stop and you block your own blessing. So that's what we as a group is always encouraged. That's what I as an individual will always encourage. and I will always try to make sure that the younger kids that's coming up understands that it's a big world out here, bigger than your hood. Much bigger. And not to mention there are hoods everywhere.

1:06:27There are hoods in Toledo. There are hoods in Paris. So don't you want to connect with all of them? It's a nice caveat. No, man. You know what I mean? I mean, the wisdom, the knowledge has been, I mean, phenomenal. And that's the reason why I wanted to get you on, because I know it's so much more, so much more in depth to who you are, who the group is currently, all the transitions that you guys had to make. If everybody sees the success part, they'll understand the inner dynamics. And then the story about 97, about really having to dig deep when somebody told you you need to quit. Yeah. And how many times people get to that.

1:07:16But to be able to still do what you do individually and as a group has been phenomenal for me to be a part of and watch. Yeah. Continued success with that. Jimmy, I appreciate you. And like I said, at this point in my life and my career, Like, I want to teach. That's all I want to do. I've been blessed to acquire a lot of understanding of the business, of the game, and how it correlates with life, and how you can balance it all. And a lot of it is from mistakes I've made, from things that I've done and, you know, bad decisions and all of that stuff that you still continue to do, but I do less of now.

1:08:03But, you know, you got scars for a reason, bro. Yeah. You know, you got scars. You know, it's funny because as I've gotten older, I've understood too, the decisions I made make me who I am. Yeah. Help me raise in fatherhood. That's right. Allows me to be a better father. Yeah. A better mentor, a better friend. But without those scars, without, I can't expect, you know, a young person to make all the right decisions, as long as it doesn't really hurt you and take you out and hurt other people. But you got to have those scars, man. Yeah, you do. You got to have them. Yeah, you do. You do. It's just a testament of what you've gone through and what you've survived.

1:08:40What you've survived. Because you're still alive. Like, you didn't die. So, you know, you've managed to get out of whatever rut you were in and still prosper. And that's all I want to do. At this point, I just want to, whether it's through example, whether it's conversations, whether it's a literal class, I want to be able to teach kids. You should do that. Yeah, I mean. Seriously, man. It'd be nice. You should. I mean, because you give so much, not just to music, but the understanding of how to make music, but how the business works, the business of making music, that part of it. Yeah. Because that's the other side of, you can hoop all day.

1:09:16Right. But you got to understand the business of playing basketball and what that means. Right. What that interaction means and how it plays in the longevity of your career. I think that's what makes you an integral part of the NBA, whether people acknowledge that or not. Because I listen to your broadcast or I watch the games that you broadcast on. The articulation, the understanding, the intelligence that you bestow on the public, the viewer, comes from experience. It comes from your being a student of the game, understanding what it is, and knowing how to explain it to the dumbest person that's watching the game and have a better understanding of it.

1:10:05That's why I appreciate what you do. Like me and Ronnie be sitting in it. I know Ronnie be sitting there. Boy, that boy don't know what he's talking about. I know Ronnie say that all the time. Right, right. And she texts you occasionally sometimes while you're broadcasting. Boy, you don't know. You're using them big words. So where can we get, what's the next thing for we get out of here? Boy, what's next this summer going into the fall? Yeah, well, we're always on the road. So check our Instagram and our website. When is the Boston? Boston is in a couple weeks, actually. That's right, just get it to me.

1:10:42Yeah, I get it to you. But yeah, we're doing an orchestra in Boston. We're touring Europe. in November. Paris, UK, Germany. Yeah. In November? In November, yeah. That's during basketball season. Yeah, late November, early December. Yeah, Boston. That'd be dope to see the orchestra part. It's dope. What about the Cosmopolitan? Oh, Cosmopolitan is August 8th and 9th. No, 9th and 10th. And then that following weekend. So we got four shows. So 18th and 9th and then 15th and 16th. And then that following weekend. Yes, thank you. And then we're doing the Cosmo there. yeah man you know what it is yeah I'll be coming back from home so maybe on the way back it'll be fun you know it's my wife's birthday that's right August 9th and he got a special one let me tell you something right now this is my sister we grew up this is his little sister this is his sister she's older than me but that's my little sister this one is special right Ron I love you to death but you're special yeah we'll keep it at that you'll keep it at that but yeah so it's her birthday okay so if you're able to make it you know are you gonna do something on that Saturday um the 8th we're having dinner at Beauty Essex we're going home we're going home then okay but whatever come pull up wish a happy birthday see the show we'll probably do something after the show anyway like have a few drinks or something depending on how she feel cause it's all about how she feels ain't no question about that ain't no question about that and um so so yeah Vegas those weekends Boston I'm trying to think I'm trying to figure out any special dates or something?

1:12:20If so, I'll let you know. We're definitely doing Europe in late November, early December. It's crazy because there are some things in the works that I wish I could announce. I'll tell you off the air. If it does come to fruition, you'll be the first to know. Let your folks know and everybody that watches your pod. If it happens, Lord willing, it'll happen. We're going to put it in the air. It's going to Yeah, it's going to happen. We're going to put it in there. Yeah. I appreciate you, brother. JJ. Come on. My God. Sorry about the screw-ups on the guitar. I really didn't know what I was going to play.

1:12:56No, but I like that. I didn't want to tell you. I just wanted you to play because, I mean, it was beautiful, man. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. Now, again, you invited me on, so I want to come on. That's right. Tell them about your podcast. On that note, there's a podcast that I created about four months ago. right now is currently number one in music podcasts and Spotify and a couple other platforms. So I'm grateful about that. JJ is going to be a guest. So make sure you look out for that episode. We're going to figure out the schedule after these cameras cut off. So he knows exactly when he's covered in.

1:13:28That's right. But on that note. But yeah, we got B. Brown coming up very soon. Again, his episode is amazing. I know it's bananas. It's off the chain. And we got a couple others coming up that I don't want to mention, but they're coming soon. And yeah, check it out on Spotify, Apple, Google, and YouTube. And that's it. There we go. My guy. Bravo to the legend. Shout out to Philly. It was good. And once again, you can catch the show at Jim Jackson Show, YouTube.com, The Rich Eisen Show. but also, too, wherever you download any of your podcasts. Please, please take a little time and download ours as well.

1:14:13Thanks again for tuning in to The Jim Jackson Show.

1:14:21The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. At Blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50 ,000 five-star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals. Free samples. Zero pressure. Right now, get up to 45 % off site-wide, plus get a free professional measure at Blinds.com. Rules and restrictions apply.