Brendan Sorsby's NFL Future, Baker Mayfield’s New Contract, and More QB News

21:18Lindsay Jones:...comps and that kind of stuff. So definitely something we'll be watching over the next couple of weeks and some fun fodder for us to talk about here when there's not a ton else going on in the NFL.

21:27Steven Ruiz:Yeah, that's going to be fascinating to watch play out over the next couple of weeks. Pro Day, again, is on July 10th and the draft is kind of scheduled for July 16th. It could be July 15th. It's happening before camp. Let's take a break and then come back and we'll talk about another interesting quarterback.

21:44Brendan Sorsby:This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Buying something for dad usually goes the same way every year, guessing, second guessing, ending up with something that collects dust on a shelf. Here's a better idea, WeatherTech. It's the kind of gift he'll actually use. WeatherTech offers unmatched vehicle protection from floor liners and seat protectors to the cup phone and cargo liner. And no, a gift card isn't a cop out. It's just practical like WeatherTech. Skip the guesswork this year. Visit weathertech.com to get your Father's Day gift today.

22:12Steven Ruiz:Tampa Bay. All right, we are back. And the other news of substance from this past week is the Baker Mayfield Bucks contract negotiations where we have both sides are very public about this. They're in many camps. So GM Jason Ligt is talking. Todd Bowles is talking. Baker Mayfield, of course, is talking as he's wont to do. But Mayfield, in his own words, said they are nowhere close on a deal. And it's not hard to read between the lines on where the point of contention is in this negotiation. I think all parties want Baker to be there. And I think all parties even probably agree on a dollar amount.

22:51Steven Ruiz:I think he's going to get somewhere in the range of$50 million to$60 million per year. But length of contract seems to be the big sticking point, especially for Mayfield. Mayfield said he wants to be in Tampa Bay. His family has laid down roots in Tampa Bay. But they are nowhere close to terms on a deal. and then you hear liked and you hear bowls talk and they are without saying it directly they are espousing concerns about baker mayfield's ability to stay healthy and i think it harkens back to his style of play and what really makes baker mayfield baker mayfield like the signature play in my mind from last year especially when his mvp campaign was at his highest was that scramble against, I think it was the 49ers, where he breaks three tackles and gets a first down on, it's a third down play.

23:39Steven Ruiz:But we saw the downside to that. I have a trivia question for you. And the context of this conversation is probably going to give away the answer. Do you know who led the NFL in EPA gained on scrambles last year?

23:50Lindsay Jones:I mean, it's got to be Baker. It was Baker Mayfield

23:52Steven Ruiz:and it was 40 expected points added total, which is a lot. And when you look at his total from all of his dropbacks, it was 36 EPA. And you don't need to be like a mathematician to realize that if you take away those scrambles, the rest of his draft backs actually lost about five EPA. So I think the big question for the Bucs is if Baker Mayfield, we don't want Baker Mayfield to scramble. If he's not scrambling, is he still a quarterback worth this much money? So I think this is a little more complicated than you would think, especially like go back to last October when he's in the MVP discussion.

24:31Steven Ruiz:When you think about a Baker Mayfield deal, do you think it's one of those things where it's like a no brainer for the Bucs or do you think it's something that they should be taking their time with?

24:41Lindsay Jones:Yeah, it's really tough because like, I think at the Ringer, we were always a little more cautious about the Baker Mayfield MVP campaign than some other sites were. And, you know, maybe we were a little Debbie Downer, both on the podcast. Not Cousin Sal.

24:57Steven Ruiz:Cousin Sal was killing me on the gambling pod.

24:59Lindsay Jones:Cousin Sal was all over. That's true. That's true. And I always wanted to be like, I'm an MVP voter and he's like not, I mean, we're even in the middle of October. And I was like, I don't know if he's top three on my ballot in the middle of October. But it's a really tricky situation because like, I think he very clearly has found a home there. He's been a great quarterback for the Bucs. I think I totally see his reasoning there where he's a guy, he did have to sign a couple of these one year proven deals. $4 million.

25:32Steven Ruiz:$4 million. That's Hunter money. Yeah, and when he's done that.

25:35Lindsay Jones:Yeah, I mean, yeah, that is wild. Like that is wild. Especially since in Arizona, he's like trying to hold out for what, like 20 million or something right now. And Baker signed for four a couple of years ago. So I totally understand where he's like, I've been through hell. Like I have been put through the fricking ringer in the NFL going from, you know, getting royally screwed in Cleveland, which I think we all can admit that the Browns screwed him pretty bad. I think with the way that they kind of tossed him aside for Deshaun Watson. And then, you know, he really had to bounce around a lot and not, I mean, it's not like he played great all the time and stuff.

26:14Lindsay Jones:And he probably deserved some of those, you know, times that he got cut and had to move. But when he's been down and has been asked to prove himself, he has gone through and proved himself. The tricky part right now is that the quarterback market is just so insane where you're looking at all of these guys now that are... Gosh, there's a dozen guys who are making more than$50 million this year and a couple guys who are over$60 million right now. And every time a new guy signs, it just pushes everything up. So is Baker the guy who you're going to pay$55 million a year? And that's kind of what we're talking about.

26:53Lindsay Jones:I think Tampa Bay would say yes, though.

26:55Steven Ruiz:I think they would say yes, but I don't want to do it for five years.

26:58Lindsay Jones:Yes.

26:59Steven Ruiz:And that's what Baker wants.

27:01Lindsay Jones:And I think that's really tricky because in that case, I think you got to just find somewhere that's in the middle. And I'm sure that's easier said than done because I really like Baker and I really like Baker specifically in Tampa. and he's been able to make it work with multiple coordinators. And it's just like, it seems like it's a really good fit. But man.

27:24Steven Ruiz:It's tough.

27:25Lindsay Jones:The quarterback market is just really, yeah, it's just really tricky. I think you got to pay him, but I think if you're Baker, maybe you try to get as many years as you can and some protections. Yeah. Beyond that, if you have some room to restructure at some point. But yeah, I mean, the other guys, I mean, if you look, Jared Goff is making 53.

27:46Steven Ruiz:Tua was making 50 last year.

27:49Lindsay Jones:That's wild. Brock Purdy is making 53. Jalen Hurts is making 51. Like, I think you would put Baker Mayfield right in the middle.

27:56Steven Ruiz:He's at least in that group. Yeah, yeah.

27:58Lindsay Jones:Yeah, he's absolutely in that group. And is it worth, like, going through a protracted battle, especially with a guy who, he's not just going to, like, sit there and quietly, quietly take it. So I'm very curious to see the timing of this and if this is something that the Bucs let drag out or if by the time we get to training camp when camps open at the end of July, if they've figured it out and found a way to make everybody happy.

28:22Steven Ruiz:Yeah, and I think the thing that complicates this is... So Baker Mayfield's cap hit for this year is$39 million. And the way they restructured his deal, I think it was last offseason and they added some void years to it. So now if the Bucs let this contract kind of play out and those void years kick in, they're going to be on the hook for a$30 million debt cap hit. So essentially, if they do let him walk after this year, which I don't think is going to happen, you would have paid Baker Mayfield for this year, that$39 million cap, plus another 30 next year, which is$69 million for one more season of Baker Mayfield.

28:56Steven Ruiz:So I think financially, Baker has some leverage here. But I think the Bucs front office thinks that Baker's a competitor. He wants to win. Even if he's mad about his contract, that might be a good thing if Baker's mad at us. Because we've seen, like you said, when he has something to prove, that's when he's kind of been at his best. It's when people start believing in him. That's when we see like the worst of Baker Mayfield.

29:20Lindsay Jones:It's true. Yeah, he should be the last guy who wants an MVP campaign.

29:24Steven Ruiz:Yeah, yeah. He should not want that. He wants to be slept on. He's like the one player that you could tell how he's going to negotiate contracts based on his film. Like based on how he plays football. He just doesn't take note for an answer. He plays with a chip on his shoulder. And I think he's going into these negotiations with one. But I think it would be in his best interest to kind of dial back the demands for the long-term deal and just play it out. Like if he puts up two more seasons like he had, not this last year, because last year was kind of a regression from the year before. But he threw 41 touchdowns and threw for 4 ,500 yards and had a 70 % completion percentage in his final year with Liam Cohen.

30:00Steven Ruiz:If you put up another one of those seasons or one or two of those, I think he's going to have no problem getting a long-term deal or that security that he's looking for. So it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. Because I think Mayfield has the leverage, but the Bucs are kind of in the right. I think they have the right thinking about it. Yeah. I would say awkward situation. This might be the most awkward situation in all of the NFL right now. The Vikings have a quarterback competition. I'm putting that in air quotes if you're listening on the audio only. A quarterback competition between Kyler Murray and J.J.

30:30Steven Ruiz:McCarthy, which I think three weeks ago, two weeks ago, felt pretty cut and dry. but after this past week, maybe the door has been open for McCarthy to actually compete for this job. I think it was the first week of minicamp. By all reports, Kyler was having a better time on the field. He looked like a clear front-runner in this race. But then last week, Murray had a rough week of practices, and I think McCarthy looked a lot better. And then Murray was kind of asked about his struggles. And then this is when things start to get awkward because the first time Murray was asked about the competition aspect of this all, he was diplomatic about it.

31:10Steven Ruiz:He was like, you know, we're pushing each other. We're helping each other get better and all that. And it was J.J. McCarthy that was kind of, you know, complaining about the situation. He seemed to be very mad about the fact that he had to compete for this job. But then last week, Murray said that he was frustrated with the lack of first-team reps and how he has to split them with McCarthy. And that is halting his progress in picking up the offense. It's a very complicated offense to learn. And that may have led to some of his struggles. And I think the people that were on Murray's side and were like, oh yeah, he's being a professional about this while JJ still looks immature about it.

31:49Steven Ruiz:I think they're kind of back in the middle, back on the fence. So do you consider this an actual competition or do you think that this is Murray's job to win and all this is just going to be stuff we forget about in August and September?

32:01Lindsay Jones:I do think it's a competition. I still think Kyler Murray's got to be kind of the front runner here and is really going to have to like lose it at this point. But look, if there's anybody who could probably go out and lose the competition, it's a guy who's maybe not known for his like study habits and, you know, putting in the extra work it takes. I think a new Call of Duty game comes out

32:22Steven Ruiz:in a month or two too. So that's something you have to factor in.

32:26Lindsay Jones:I mean, and I don't think, I mean, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong here. Like this is not a guy who's like really been in like, a quarterback competition. Never, never. No.

32:35Steven Ruiz:He walked right into the starting lineup as a rookie, yeah.

32:38Lindsay Jones:So yeah, certainly not in the NFL. I'm trying to remember back during his like college at Oklahoma. At Texas A &M,

32:45Steven Ruiz:he did have like, but he was a freshman and I think it was Kyle Allen, the Panthers quarterback from a couple of years ago. They had a competition when they were both, I think they were both like highly touted freshmen and Murray ended up winning. But since then, I think he's just, you know, had whatever job. He's kind of, yeah.

32:59Lindsay Jones:I mean, so this is a very unfamiliar situation for him to be like, one, you know, he got cut, but he signed with the team where he thought he probably had the clearest path to winning a job and being the starter and, you know, maybe having kind of like a fake quarterback competition. I am looking at this. Well, one, this is the team that I wish was on Hard Knocks. I had to go back and just look up and see who is that. It's the Seahawks, which... No, I guess we haven't...

33:26Steven Ruiz:I don't want that though. We haven't had like

33:28Lindsay Jones:the reigning Super Bowl champions on Hard Knocks in a very, very, very,

33:31Steven Ruiz:might have been the first one. It might have been the Ravens.

33:33Lindsay Jones:Yeah, that's what I was thinking since like the very, very beginning. But with all apologies to our Seahawks friends and fellow fans here or our fans here at the Ringer. They're boring, man. I could not be less interested in a season of preseason Seahawks.

33:51Steven Ruiz:They're fun on the field, okay? Oh, it's fun as hell to watch.

33:54Lindsay Jones:But yeah, like, I mean, I guess like, yeah, we'll find some, maybe some personalities there. But this is the one I want to watch. Look, if summer is about juicy reality television, give me Love Island and give me Hard Knocks Minnesota Vikings because I would love to be in those rooms and actually seeing the dynamics between these two guys because they clearly are not becoming friends. I don't think they have any interest in forming a cohesive quarterback room that is going to... The starter is going to be helping develop the backup and the backup is going to really be helping prep the starter.

34:31Lindsay Jones:It just does not seem like it's going to be that type of situation. And the thing that I just think is so interesting about this is kind of the Kevin O 'Connell of it all, where a couple of years ago, he was like the kind of the no-brainer pick to be NFL's coach of the year. This quarterback guru was, you know, loving up on every quarterback who was on the field, the opposing quarterback. He can save them all too.

34:56Steven Ruiz:Yeah.

34:56Lindsay Jones:Yeah, and they're not treating you right. And the quarterback development model in the NFL is all wrong. And we're going to be this team that's going to fix it. And he chose this. And that's what... It's not like the Vikings have ended up some... How did we end up in this situation? Well, you know how you ended up in this situation. You decided not to re-sign Sam Darnold. You traded... You invested a lot in J.J. McCarthy. Decided he was your guy. Didn't bring back Daniel Jones. when he was in your room as your backup and decided to bring in Kyler Murray. So you've walked into this situation that is now really, really awkward.

35:36Lindsay Jones:And it's going to be a really big test for the Kevin O 'Connell experience and who is he not... Look, we know who he is as a schemer and a play caller. And I don't think there's really any questioning of those credentials at this point. But we're going to learn a lot about who he is as a CEO and the guy who is completely in charge of a franchise and managing his roster. And I'm very, very interested and I'm very mad that we are not going to have full-time cameras. No, we definitely should. So if anybody at NFL Films can pull a little switcheroo and make that happen by August, that would be great.

36:15Steven Ruiz:Or Netflix. Like Netflix. Netflix, sure. There's still time. You still have a month to get in on that. But I do think the Kevin O 'Connell part is interesting because I do think he has this reputation, which he cultivated himself, becoming like the quarterback reclamation guy, the guy that said that, what was his line? It was like, young quarterbacks don't fail, NFL teams fail young quarterbacks, something along those lines. It's easy to say that, and then you have to coach J.J. McCarthy, and all that talk goes out the window. But I do think he wants to maintain that, which is why we're getting this, which I think is a farce of a quarterback competition.

36:51Steven Ruiz:Like when you think about, say what you want about Kyler Murray and like the off the field stuff and whether he studies or not. He has been a top 10 quarterback in this league at one time, like 2021 started eight. No, he was like the leading MVP candidate at the time. He was a first round. He was a first overall pick. And I don't think anyone would have called him a bust before things went bad in Arizona. Whereas JJ McCarthy has never looked like a competent NFL quarterback. Like if you take away the fact that the Vikings had invested so much into J.J. McCarthy, this isn't a quarterback competition on paper.

37:23Steven Ruiz:If they had signed Kyler this offseason, even to the prove-it deal, and they had this, let's say J.J. McCarthy was a third-round pick who looked like a disaster on the field, like a Max Brosmer-type level player, no one would be thinking, oh, we need a quarterback competition here. But I think the Vikings and Kevin O 'Connell, who's kind of the face of that organization now that Quezzi is gone, I think he wants to be like, look, we don't abandon quarterbacks. So let's pretend like we're giving him a chance. And I'm kind of on Kyler's side here with the split of the reps. Like, we know Kyler's going to be your starting quarterback.

37:59Steven Ruiz:We know it. Why are we pretending like it's not going to happen? And why are we not dedicating all of our time to getting the best possible version of him? Even if it's in the offseason. Like, this stuff kind of trickles down. It has a trickle-down effect where if you fall behind in the offseason, then you're kind of catching up in preseason, and you're not your best when September rolls around. So I'm kind of with Kyler on this one. I'm team Kyler, which I don't think is a surprise to anyone. I've always had a soft spot.

38:25Lindsay Jones:I agree about the rep split. Like, I mean, there's a time during OTAs and, you know, in June where, you know, you can get your backup some work. But that can only, that can't last that long. If you're installing a new offense, if you're trying to, you know, get some chemistry between the guy who's presumably going to be your starter and, you know, say the best wide receiver in football, You probably want them having a lot of time together. So I think it'll behoove Kevin O 'Connell to not let this drag out a long time into July and August. If we're sitting here at August 15th and we're a couple of preseason games in and they're still bucking around with the quarterback reps and trying to drag this out and giving J.J.

39:09McCarthy a lot more run here,

39:12Lindsay Jones:I think that's going to say that the Vikings are in a pretty bad spot.

39:15Steven Ruiz:Yeah, I hope that doesn't happen. I think it will be sorted out by week two of the preseason, which even then is still a little too late, but at least they'll have a resolution. We have another potentially awkward quarterback coach relationship. We're going to get into Denver. Let's take a break first and then come back and talk about. Let's talk about a condition many people haven't heard of.

39:37Brendan Sorsby:And it turns out it's more common than you'd think. Peyronie's disease or PD for short. PD can happen when scar tissue builds up under the skin of the penis. This can cause a curve or the bump during an erection and, for some men, lead to pain during intimacy and may impact mental health. It may also lead to anger and frustration, depression, lower self-esteem, and even withdrawal from sexual activity and physical intimacy. Because of this, some men could feel embarrassed or reluctant to talk about PD. The actual cause of PD isn't always known. In some cases, it may be linked to a minor injury or repeated injuries during sex or other physical activity.

40:16Brendan Sorsby:The good news is PD is treatable. If you notice a curve with a bump, a trusted urology specialist can help diagnose it and walk you through your options, including non-surgical treatment. To learn more about Peyronie's disease, visit talkaboutpd.com. This episode is brought to you by Viore. When it comes to clothes that score high in both comfort and style, Viore is my MVP. Sunday performance joggers, oh yeah. They have the perfect, I could watch a game and then go out to dinner vibe. And the Meta Pant, that's my number one I need to look like I tried option. Get 20 % off your first purchase at viore.com slash Simmons and discover the versatility of Viore clothing.

40:55Brendan Sorsby:Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

40:58Steven Ruiz:Lindsey's experience at Broncos Minicamp. All right, welcome back. Once again, Lindsey was out at Broncos Minicamp yesterday. And the Broncos obviously came off a dream season up until the end. but there was a little awkwardness there at the end with Bo Nix's ankle injury and some comments Sean Payton made and some comments to those comments that Nix kind of pushed back against. I just wanted to ask, what are the vibes, especially between the coach and the quarterback out there?

41:26Lindsay Jones:Yeah, so the reason I wanted to go out to the first day of minicamp because it was Bo Nix's first time back on a football field since the end of the divisional round playoff game when he led the Broncos back in that overtime win against the Bills. And then we found out about an hour later that right there at the end of overtime, he broke his ankle and was not going to be able to play in the AFC Championship game. So he's now back on the field. He's not been cleared for full work. So kind of the drama has been when he had the surgery pretty quickly after the initial injury in January. And the team came out right away and said, surgery went great.

42:03Lindsay Jones:He's going to be cleared and full go in time for the offseason program. that was even still the plan as of like late March when we were at the owners meetings and Sean Payton was meeting reporters there saying you know everything was going well and then very quickly after that it turns out that Bo Nix had a secondary procedure on the same ankle it was kind of like a cleanup procedure and we got to get him on the record this week to say like well what exactly happened here because clearly there was some misalignment about what was going on with this injury. Sean Payton, I think, has probably said too much along the way, more than Bo Nix has wanted to be out there about his ankle.

42:42Lindsay Jones:I think the thing that really kind of got under the quarterback skin was that Sean Payton put it out there that Bo Nix was predisposed to ankle injuries. He has had a history of ankle fractures. He broke his ankle when he was at Oregon. He also had one when he was in high school. So this is stuff that has kind of happened along the way. and it's just been like it's just been kind of weird like there's been all these like pictures that have been zoomed in on Bo Nix's ankles when he's been walking or he's been out doing some like rehab yeah we really are and it's like is his ankle bending weird like you look like it's like on a funhouse mirror and trying to figure out like is this dude okay like there's just been a lot of kind of weird stuff going on so this was the first chance for Bo Nix to be back on the field in a helmet with his teammates and then trying to you know, look, this is, the vibes were really good around the Broncos late last season, certainly into the playoffs coming off of that Buffalo game.

43:36And then it all fell apart with

43:38Lindsay Jones:the Jarrett Stidham snow game in the AFC championship game against the Patriots. And we kind of talked, we joked about it a little bit off the top. Um, but yeah, being out there with a lot of, it was a, it was a pretty big group of reporters. And I still think there's a lot of like, what ifs going on with the Broncos and the people around that team of like, you know what if jared stinton just didn't have that one massive brain part because like he played fine outside of the one really really really brutal mistake because it's not like the patriots are playing great i mean drake may was awful for you know for the duration of the playoffs but he was really bad in that game he was really bad in the super bowl and really kind of won the game for the patriots with a couple couple late scrambles when it was really really snowy there in the second half of that game.

44:23Lindsay Jones:So there's a lot of like what ifs going on. And I think now that Bo is back, not cleared for full participation yet. He only did individual drills. And I believe that's going to be the case through the duration of this mini camp this week. He's not going to be participating in seven on sevens and 11 on 11, that kind of stuff. He's not like sprinting. He wasn't doing a lot of like lateral movement. It was really like kind of get back out here, throw on air, do the individual work, that kind of stuff. start actually getting to throw with Jalen Waddell, their big off-season pickup. And, you know, I think there's like, this is a team that's really confident and really like they believe in their heart of hearts that they were a Super Bowl caliber team last year.

45:07Lindsay Jones:And if one or two breaks had gone a different way, obviously the literal break with Bo Nix's ankle and then the other break being literally the only like four hours of legitimate snow we got in Denver the entire winter happened on live television during the AFC Championship game. It was the driest, warmest winter I think any of us have experienced in a really long time. And the four hours of snow happened to be during the AFC Championship game. So there's a lot of like, what if, you know? So I think this is a team that is feeling really confident, really likes their quarterback. Some changes going on.

45:44Lindsay Jones:Sean Payton has given up play calling duties. So it'll be some just really interesting dynamics, I think. going on with this team. But yeah, they're feeling good. They're feeling themselves, I think.

45:55Steven Ruiz:How do you think that relationship between Peyton and Nix is progressing? Last offseason, he couldn't shut up about his quarterback. I think he at one point said he's going to be a top five quarterback in the NFL the following season or something along those lines. But we had this little back and forth during the offseason where, like you said, Peyton said he was predisposed to ankle injuries. And then Bo Nix was like, I'm not predisposed to anything. My ankles were feeling great before this. and then we have seen them kind of butt heads on the sidelines a couple times last year. Do you think it's still as strong as it was last year?

46:27Steven Ruiz:Or do you think there is a little bit of tension there? And all tension isn't bad tension, especially in football, I would say.

46:33Lindsay Jones:Yeah, I mean, I do think when we go back to last, this time last year, and then certainly like last August during the training camp tour, when Sean Payton loves to sit down with anybody with a microphone, who loves to come through town and the NFL Network and the K Adams and that whole kind of like that rotation. He loves that. He loves to like talk about his quarterback. I think he actually said the top five quarterback thing. Was that to, that was either to Yahoo Sports or USA Today. I'm trying to remember which of his 16 sit downs that he did over the course of like the first week of August.

47:06Lindsay Jones:I always felt during that time where it was, what he was saying about Bo, but then also what he was talking about the whole team, believing that this was a Super Bowl team. He knows what a Super Bowl team looks like, like all of that kind of stuff. I felt like that was a little bit more about like message setting and like to his team. Like that wasn't so much like him saying like, go bet on us. Like we're going to win the Superbowl. I think it was like him projecting to his locker room. These are the expectations that we have. A year ago, this was a team for 2024. This was a team that was just trying to get out of the Russell Wilson mess that, you know, be competitive in the AFC West.

47:44Lindsay Jones:And that the expectations had shifted. he was dialing it up a little bit. And so a lot of this messaging was, we're rallying around Bo Nix. Like we are in on Bo Nix as a group. I'm going to put it out there publicly. You guys are going to follow me. This is our guy. We're going to like talk him up. Even if maybe if you gave him truth serum, you know, like the Drew Brees comparisons, maybe a little, like maybe he was going a little bit too far. And it was funny, he actually got asked about that on Tuesday. He's one of the, one of the columnists here in Denver asked him, And, you know, basically this time last year, you're saying he was a top five quarterback.

48:20Lindsay Jones:Given what has happened since, do you still feel that way? And he kind of, Sean Payton kind of said like, look, that was, I did say that like last August. And, you know, he's kind of trying to come back from some stuff now. And, you know, I think the questions now are, what is the new offense going to look like with Davis Webb calling plays? Was Sean Payton kind of out of that play-to-play mix? He's not going to be the guy directly in Bo Nix's ear. during games. I think that's probably better for their relationship. Yeah, yeah, that's insane. That's where a lot of the conflict was happening, was like actually in the function of getting the plays called.

48:59Lindsay Jones:And then, so I think that's certainly part of it. And then, yeah, I mean, they're just these like fiery kind of guys. And, you know, look, I've kind of gotten a reputation locally here in Denver when I do radio hits and on Twitter and stuff of being a little bit of like a Debbie Downer when it comes to... I've been there before. You? No. Never. Never. But I'm like... I was counting yesterday. This is my 19th. This is my 19th year out at Broncos minicamp. I've seen some shit. I've seen some stuff with this team. I've seen some really good quarterback play. I've seen some really, really, really, really bad quarterback play.

49:43Lindsay Jones:You've seen Paxton Lynch. Like I saw Paxton Lynch throw the ball into the wall of the field house, leaving a dent, which I think is still there. It's like the Paxton Lynch Memorial. Yeah, I lived through the summer of Trevor Simeon versus Mark Sanchez. Lived through the Chad Kelly of it all. Look, it's been a time here in Denver, Colorado. I think my football evaluations of Bo Nix kind of still stand. And I think you and I are fairly aligned with like maybe where his floor is, but then also maybe where his ceiling is, some concerns about how he handles himself in the pocket, the happy feet that he gets.

50:22Lindsay Jones:Right. But that he like, the thing that has changed, I think, though, is like, as I've learned a little bit more about his personality. And I think the thing that I've come to really like about him is that like, look, Sean, Sean Payton can be a lot. He can be... I don't think many people would like to have him as your boss. I think you would all go probably a little bit crazy if you had to work for Sean Payton. And Bo Nix gives it back to him. He can kind of rise to that level. He's not afraid to be a jerk back to him, to stark back at him, to raise his voice, to be a little fiery. And that's one of the things that I like about him.

51:01Lindsay Jones:And I kind of like that Bo has not, from this whole rehab part with his ankle, hasn't necessarily been like, I'm just going to be quiet about it. Let my coach say some stuff that's not true. I'm going to talk about where I'm at, what I think I'm capable of. And, you know, so I think... Are they going to be like, is this going to be a Patrick Mahomes, Andy Reid, we're like best friends or like a...

51:24Steven Ruiz:Doing commercials together.

51:25Lindsay Jones:Matthew Stafford, Sean McVay going hot tubbing together in Cabo. Probably not. It's probably not ever going to be that relationship. But I think it's showing that they can like, exist on a good like back and forth kind of plane. Like I think, I think Sean Payton needs a quarterback that he's not just going to be able to like kind of push around. They want a guy who's going to give him some feedback. So yeah, I don't, I look, I don't think they're going to be like best friends, but I, but I hope this is going to get them to a place where they can kind of have like a respectful and productive professional relationship.

51:58Steven Ruiz:Yeah. It's a big year for Bo Nix too. He's going into his third year and I think he started, He's already starting to get some contract questions from the press. Next offseason is the first year he's eligible to sign an extension. Next offseason is also the time when the Broncos have to decide whether or not to pick up his fifth-year option, which would guarantee him around$30 million salary in 2028. Obviously, if he has a big year, they're going to give him whatever he wants. They're going to reset the market for him. But I'm wondering if, let's say it's a mediocre year. But from your perspective in Denver, where do you think the blame goes for that?

52:38Steven Ruiz:Because I think we saw last year when the offense was struggling at times when they would get it going in the fourth quarter. I don't know, maybe I'm just, my algorithms aren't in the right place, but I would hear from Broncos fans being like, why don't we, you know, hurry up to tempo and do what we do in the fourth quarter in quarters one through three. So it kind of sounded like they were putting some of the blame for Bo's struggles in those early quarters on Sean Payton. And now that he's kind of handed off the play calling, if there is a mediocre year, a step back, and Bo maybe puts up the same numbers, there's no progress there, who do you think gets the blame there?

53:12Steven Ruiz:And how do you think that might affect...

53:14Lindsay Jones:Davis Webb, probably.

53:15Steven Ruiz:Davis Webb, yeah, for sure. I think I was on a pod with Shield like a month or two ago, and I was like, at what point does Sean Payton, is he setting up Davis Webb to be the fall guy so he can be the hero that takes back play calling duties and leads the Broncos on a run? But do you think that that will shield Peyton from any criticism if it does go wrong and he doesn't ever take back the play call?

53:38Lindsay Jones:Look, I would be shocked if he doesn't take back

53:39Steven Ruiz:play calling at some point this year.

53:42Lindsay Jones:I just, like, this is not a guy who's just, like, going to relinquish control of anything. So I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, like, look, I like Dave, I mean, all of my, like, personal interactions with the Davis Lab, I come away being really impressed as, like, really, really sharp guy. I mean, people have been talking him up since he was playing, like since he was kind of bouncing around as a backup quarterback, as like, this is a, this is guiding God to be the new, the new guy, the next like, you know, backup quarterback turned play caller, turned head coach. He's certainly been on that trajectory for quite a while now.

54:16Lindsay Jones:For a guy who's really young, I mean, he's only in his early thirties. I don't think Sean was like turning over play calling because he just wants to be like altruistic and like, you know, really cares like a ton about Davis Webb's development and like trying to get him a head coaching job. I mean, I think it'll look good for Sean Payton if he does, right? Like he doesn't have like this huge coaching tree. He doesn't have this like huge body of work of like all of the guys, the play callers who have come up under him who have gone on to become, you know, head coaches or play callers elsewhere.

54:48Lindsay Jones:So this would kind of be a little feather in his cap if Davis Webb turns out to be a really good play caller and followed, you know, kind of this Sean Payton becomes like a real branch off of the Sean Payton offensive tree. But yeah, I mean, I would just say like, when we talk about blame, like Bo Nix got like none of it. Like you see that in Twitter mentions. If you are not like a Bo leaver, it's on shirts and everything and signs. Like if you're not all in on Bo, you're considered like, kind of like traitorous around here. And that's just like, that's what the city is. It's just like, this is a quarterback town.

55:24Lindsay Jones:and it's been like that for my entire lifetime. Yeah. You know, that's what happens when John Elway is the quarterback here for a really long time and then somehow you luck into Peyton Manning for, you know, four or five really, really good years. It's just... It's always going to be like that, right?

55:41Steven Ruiz:It's always going to be like that. I remember the Drew Locke offseason. I got a lot of shit for that because I was not a Drew Locke believer.

55:50Lindsay Jones:Yeah, that was a tough time. Although I do, I will say there were like, there were some Broncos fans, I think who are really happy to see him get a ring with the Seahawks. There was still a lot of like, kind of like wistfulness of like, maybe if things had gone a little different, if the coaching situation had been better, the receiver group or whatever had been better. But yeah, I mean, I don't think the blame is going to go on Bo. I think it's going to go much more heavily on the coaching staff if this doesn't go well. The tricky part is that Sean Payton just got extended. So Sean Payton is here long-term.

56:22Lindsay Jones:him. He just got a five-year extension. George Payton, the general manager, he's recently got an extension. So the brain trust is in place. And then now really it's on Bo to raise his game, elevate the rest of the offense. The pieces are in place around him. He's got one of the best offensive lines in the league. They went out and traded a first round pick for Jalen Waddell. So there's not a lot of excuses left for this offense not to take a big step forward and not just be like an offense that can make, you know, play well in the fourth quarter or have these like splashy plays here and there.

56:53Lindsay Jones:This needs to become an offense that can be functional and efficient from down to down from the first quarter to the fourth quarter. And that's not what we saw last year. Right. But the potential I think is there and that's what we really need to see now.

57:04Steven Ruiz:So just putting it in terms of the third year quarterbacks, we have Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake May, Michael Panik Jr. and JJ McCarthy are in their own separate thing, but I put Bo Nix, I would elevate him, even though he was drafted after McCarthy and Penix, I would elevate him into that top three discussion. Do you think he has the most pressure on him going into this? It's not a contract year, but it's kind of like a quasi contract year. Or is there another quarterback in that group that you think maybe has more pressure on?

57:32Lindsay Jones:Yeah, I don't think it's Caleb Williams right now. I mean, I just, I think we all kind of came away like just really enchanted by Caleb Williams after last season, especially the way that he played in some of those big games. obviously wasn't able to quite get over the hump in that Rams game. And that was the divisional round? Yeah, that was the divisional round, right? But he was doing the shit that we just were waiting for him to do. We knew that he was possible. He's just kind of this athlete on a whole different level and Ben Johnson seemed to have unlocked something. So it's not Caleb Williams, I think, in terms of something to prove.

58:03Lindsay Jones:I'm just really excited to see what year two with the Ben Johnson experience is going to look like. I'm personally very interested in the Drake May May 2026. What that is going to look like. Our friend Deontay Lee, he and I have been talking about this a lot. He's not worried about Drake May at all. I feel very worried about Drake May. And if I'm like, if I were a Patriots fan, I would be really nervous coming off of the postseason that I had. And maybe this is one of my just like blind spots or whatever as a football reporter, or the way that I look at the league. I have a really hard time shaking the most recent stuff that we saw.

58:44Lindsay Jones:And I know you can go back and when we're pulling... This is the time of year where we like to go back and really do a deep dive into what happened in the previous season and going back through and looking at all of the advanced metrics from the entire season. And so much of that stuff is really positive for Drake May. And there was a reason that he finished second in MVP voting because the advanced numbers are great. The efficiency metrics were great. The eye test a lot of the time during the season was really good. I just can't shake the way that that offense played and him specifically down the stretch in the postseason.

59:15Lindsay Jones:And the fact that they were kind of able to go on that run to the Super Bowl when he was playing so poorly. Like, look, you and me, we were sitting next to each other in the press box in Levi's Stadium with all sorts of true media searches going on. Like, we were in historically bad quarterback performance territory until garbage time in that game. and he's a really young quarterback. And I watched him really closely. I was the pool reporter for the AFC during Super Bowl week. So I watched every minute of Patriots practice at Stanford that week. And he was a guy and I was in the Patriots locker room after that Super Bowl where 52 guys in that locker room, I don't want to say that they weren't disappointed because I think they all were like, you know, you want to win the Super Bowl and it's a bummer to not win the Super Bowl.

1:00:01Lindsay Jones:but most of the guys there were like yeah we got our asses kicked and like that sucks but like we'll get them you know hopefully we'll be back drake felt watching drake in that locker room seemed like this is a guy who was pretty devastated yeah and um he was wound really tight the entire week um he had that shoulder that he was dealing with but the way that he played was like kind of even worse. It was just, it was, it was really hard to watch. Um, and the fact that like they got him, AJ Brown. I love it. I love that they made a move to get like an actual legit number one wide receiver. Will Campbell is still that left tackle and that makes me really nervous.

1:00:47Lindsay Jones:And I, I hope for Drake Mays sake that like, he has that like toughness element to him that is going to take the adversity from January and February and turn that into like a big chip on his shoulder that's going to make him play really well, that him and Josh McDaniels are going to figure some stuff out this offseason. Game planning wise, things, maybe some easy buttons for him that they weren't able to pull or push in the postseason. But I just hope that that run and the way that he played specifically down the stretch and in that Super Bowl isn't going to like do irreparable harm.

1:01:20Steven Ruiz:No, I think it does matter because it happened. Like it's not theoretical and it's the last memory you have of his season. And if he struggles again this year, we're not going to be thinking about how great he was last year. We're going to be thinking about what we saw of him in the postseason. And then if they make it back to the postseason, he has another playoffs, like another stinker. We've seen how that sticks with quarterbacks and how that kind of, like the Lamar Jackson seemed to have trouble getting a contract every time he wants one, even though he wins MVPs because of the playoff struggle.

1:01:51Steven Ruiz:So I'm kind of with you there. I think there is a lot of pressure on him. I think Caleb has just won over Bears fans who had a very low bar and he's jumped over it. Jaden Daniels, for me, it just comes down to does he stay healthy? Because if he stays healthy, I think Washington has the same view of him as Chicago has of Caleb Williams. And I would say that I don't think Bo Nix has a lot of on-field pressure just because that defense is going to be awesome again. You have Sean Payton designing the offense. The offense is even more talented this time around. The offensive line is still very good.

1:02:23Steven Ruiz:So I think Bo Nix could turn in mediocre performances and still be on a winning team. Whereas the Patriots, things are going to be harder this year, even though I think the roster around May has gotten better, but the schedule is going to be a lot harder. And then that was kind of the narrative last year is he beat up on an easy schedule, lets him play playoff teams, and then he stinks it up in the playoffs. So narratively speaking, I think there is a lot of pressure on Drake May, even though I have a lot of confidence in what I've seen of him on film.

1:02:50Lindsay Jones:Yeah, I feel like I need to go back and watch the middle of the season. I need to go refresh so I can kind of get the stink of those last couple of playoff games out of my mind because he was so freaking good for most of the year. He was so good. He was not my MVP pick. He was on my MVP ballot. He wasn't my first place vote getter there. But there was a reason that so many people did vote for him for MVP. He deserved all of those accolades that he got. But I would say if I'm like, one, who's the guy who's probably under the most pressure out of his class? I would say it's him. And then if we were going to say like, who's the most likely guy from that crew from the 2024 draft class to actually win MVP?

1:03:32Lindsay Jones:Who's the first guy who's going to get it? He's probably not my first pick.

1:03:35Steven Ruiz:He wouldn't be? Who would be your...

1:03:37Lindsay Jones:I really can't. I'm Caleb Williams.

1:03:40Steven Ruiz:You don't even have to go back and watch Drake May from last year because we were getting so close to football. You were already back on the practice field and we're just like a month and a half away from training camp. We have a supplemental draft to look forward to now. It's going to be fun to break all that down over the next few weeks. But that's going to do it for this week. Thanks as always for listening. Thanks to Christopher Sutton for producing. Thanks to Stefano Sanchez on video. And thanks to Arjuna Ramkabal and Connor Nevins for additional production supervision. This has been The Ringer NFL Show.

1:04:09Steven Ruiz:Thanks for listening.

1:04:20Baker Mayfield:21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York for Louisiana.

1:04:53Brendan Sorsby:Ignite your taste with new NOS Energy Grand Prix Guava. Foot-to-the-floor energy with high-speed tropical flavor that'll shift you and your day into top gear. So keep your foot on the gas and your hand on the NOS Energy Grand Prix Guava and get after it. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch.

1:05:28Lindsay Jones:Upfront payment of$45 for three month plan equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at mintmobile.com.

1:05:39Baker Mayfield:Call 1-877-770-7867. Thank you.