John Harbaugh Fired! Who Replaces Him, And Where Does He Land Next?

0:00Diante Lee:This episode is brought to you by Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again Season 2, now streaming on Disney+. Charlie Cox and Vincent D 'Onofrio are back, and Kristen Ritter makes her highly anticipated return as Jessica Jones in an all-new season. As Mare Fisk tightens his grip on New York City, he makes Daredevil as his top target. Matt Murdock fights from the shadows, hoping to bring down Fisk's corrupt empire and reclaim his city. Don't miss Daredevil Born Again Season 2, now streaming only on Disney+.

0:39Diante Lee:Welcome to the Ringer NFL Show. I'm Shiel Kapadia. Breaking news, big news in the NFL. Ravens fire John Harbaugh after an 18-year stint. We're going to talk about every aspect of this story. Was it the right move for the Ravens? Who will be the next guy to coach Lamar Jackson? And where does John Harbaugh end up? Does he get one of these head coach openings around the NFL? To talk about it all, we've got my friend from the Ringer, Deontay Lee. Let's take a break. We come back. We talk John Harbaugh. The Ringer NFL Show is presented by FanDuel. FanDuel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play.

1:22Diante Lee:Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to fanduel.com slash ringer NFL to get started. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut.

2:00Diante Lee:all right we are back on the ringer nfl show with my friend dionte lee we got the breaking news john harbaugh out as the ravens head coach we're gonna tackle everything was this the right move who should the ravens hire and where will john harbaugh end up but dionte i saw a tweet from yours right after the news broke and you said had to happen, had to. So explain why you think the Ravens had to make this move. I mean, things just kind of run their turn, right? Like I think that this is actually one of the few times and there's been a lot of heat, right? On John Harbaugh, on Lamar Jackson, I would say really since the 2022 AFC Championship game.

2:41I think everybody has kind of been white knuckling a little bit with this job, right? And definitely the heat cranked up after you lose to the bills last season. Um, and then, you know, you go into this year, Lamar gets hurt, all of that. And it takes them so long to just get back to a place where they can compete. And I think I'm at the 2023, not, um, AFC championship game, not 2022. Um, where I just think that this thing at run its course, right? Like if there was one thing that I, if there was one word I had to use to describe what we were watching in Baltimore, it just felt stale, right? It felt stale.

3:16It felt like the same solutions not working for the same sets of problems over and over again. We are still looking at a team that has had issues with addressing offensive line. We're looking at a team that still is struggling to utilize this wide receiver core and this wide receiver core is probably just not developed at the rate that we would like to see. We're still seeing this team kind of waiting in the water and trying to find a defensive identity after Mike McDonald. And you have these losses when you have these double digit leads. And I think that the way the season opened in the first two weeks ended up telling the story for what ultimately undid John Harbaugh's tenure.

3:54Not a bad coach. I think that on the market, he will be a very big draw. But right now in Baltimore, I think that they just need to turn the page. And now you're, you know, it's one of those welcome to the real NFL moments. Like you don't get to, you don't really get to keep a coach for two decades the way that Baltimore has these days. right? And with the$75 million cap hit at quarterback, that means now that this has to be built around the quarterback trying to get you over the hump. And I don't know if that was happening to maximal effect in Baltimore for the last couple of years.

4:21Diante Lee:Yeah. I think two key things when I heard you describe that, because at first you're describing it and I'm going, John Harbaugh is not the GM. You're talking about O-line. You're talking about some of the other roster shortcomings. And that is not, this is a very, the way they're set up is Eric DaCosta is the GM. He loves the draft. He's talked about the draft. He takes great pride in putting together a roster. And John Harbaugh, even though he's been there for 18 years, he is the coach, not the GM. So I think that's worth pointing out. But I think you nailed it. This isn't about John Harbaugh as a bad coach.

4:52Diante Lee:John Harbaugh stinks. This is about in the NFL when you were in a place for 18 years. Sometimes when you're in a place for five years, that like Bill Walsh, he's like, that is a long time in the NFL. And sometimes to your point, it just runs its course. The message is getting stale. The whole day, you need a little bit of a change and it doesn't guarantee anything. And it does remind me of John Harbaugh's mentor, Andy Reid in Philadelphia, there for 14 years. Now Harbaugh won a Super Bowl, Reid never won a Super Bowl, but it was the same thing at the time. It wasn't that Andy Reid turned into a bad coach.

5:25Diante Lee:It was that we've had a long run here. It's time for a change for both of us. Good luck and we'll see what happens next. That's really what this is about. That's one. And then two, the Lamar Jackson thing, we can't like, you know, that is a huge storyline here for a number of reasons. One could be because we're Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh on the same page. Was that relationship strain? The reporting started, I really, I think really amplified in the last few weeks here about, hey, Lamar Jackson, his nutrition habits. You and I talked about it last week. Hey, he's sleeping in meetings. And like, is there a disconnect between head coach and quarterback?

6:00Diante Lee:because we know how the NFL works. When you have a quarterback with one multiple MVPs and is under 30, and if he doesn't see eye to eye with the coach, it's not a very difficult decision to know which direction you're going to go in. And if you're the Ravens, you look at this and say, we've had a great run with Lamar Jackson, John Harbaugh, but do we want this to be the only person who ever coaches Lamar Jackson in his prime? Or do we want to go in a different direction? And obviously they chose going in a different direction. So listen, I was just looking it up since John Harbaugh became their head coach through various quarterbacks, through various coordinators, through various rosters, fourth best winning percentage in the NFL, won a Super Bowl in the playoffs, 12 out of 18 years.

6:42Diante Lee:So it was a great run. But this to me is just that it's time for a change more than anything else. 100%. Like I said, I mean, the term on this is firing because that is accurate in the reporting. But ultimately, I think that he can leave Steve Busciotti's office with a handshake and a hug and say, hey, man, like we did some great things together. We've been very close in the Lamar Jackson era. You're going to get another job. We'll be just fine as an organization. I think that it's probably just in everybody's best interest that we go in another direction. Maybe. The handshakes and the hugs are when the camera's on or when we're being linked to reporters.

7:17Diante Lee:You know, when you get in the house, when you get in the car, it might not feel the exact same. Right. Like, and I do think that if you're John Harbaugh, you should be frustrated. I think it's totally fair if you're frustrated leaving this building, knowing all the opportunity that was in this organization's hands over the last half decade and to have squandered most of it. Right. It's not just, oh, you know, Baltimore ended up on the wrong side of a bracket or, you know, a kick bounced off of, you know, an upright. And that was the difference between going to the Super Bowl and not. For the most part, we walk away from most of these seasons feeling like Baltimore left points on the field.

7:52Baltimore did not meet the moment when they needed to. Some of that's Lamar Jackson. Some of that's coaching. Some of that's the supporting cast around the both of them. Some of that has been roster issues, as you pointed out, with Eric DaCosta and some of the ways that they've approached the draft and free agency. I do think if you want to be the most optimistic version of a Ravens fan, you take this to say, wake up call for everybody. We have to change the way that we've operated. We can't do what we did in 2005, 2006, in 2010, 2011. We can't do those things anymore because that just does not serve us in this era.

8:23We have got to kind of get with the times and pull this thing up to the way that most other teams are operating in this decade where, yeah, you're going to have to spend to bring in outside talent. You might have to be a little bit more aggressive in the draft for a team that's typically picking in that playoff area. You're picking in the back end of the first round. You might have to be a little bit more aggressive. you're going to have to take more chances on players. I think that this should be a signal that the way that Baltimore typically does business, not doesn't have to change wholesale, but does need to be tweaked in some pretty major ways.

8:54Yeah.

8:54Diante Lee:The playoff stuff you mentioned, I was thinking about it, like the excuses that we make for Lamar Jackson. And I think you and I are probably on the same page that most of them are valid. There are things out of his control that have happened in those games, but don't those apply to John Harbaugh to like, like Zay Flowers fumbling, against the Chiefs. Is that a coaching issue or is that a randomness issue? Mark Andrews dropping a two-point conversion. Is that a coaching issue or is that just like if football's weird sometimes? Tyler Loop missing that field goal. That's the very interesting part of this.

9:25Diante Lee:If he makes that field goal on Sunday night in a wild game against the Steelers, are we having this conversation? Maybe we are. Maybe the Ravens win. It's not about this coach. It might have been the coach on the other side of this game. I mean, that's crazy, isn't it? You can be in a place for 18 years and they missed field goal from 44 yards out could be the difference between whether you're moving on or not. So this isn't, I'm not going the route of, oh my God, he was wrong. Then you're in a place for 18 years. You don't win. I understand why the Ravens did this. We'll see if they get a better coach.

9:58Diante Lee:Not the last thing though, before we move on to that, Deontay, this report I saw from the Athletics, Diana Rossini, I don't know if you saw this or not. It is a developing story as we record. She said, a key pressure point in the John Harbaugh dismissal, according to those familiar with today's discussions, was his refusal to entertain any conversations about potentially moving on from offensive coordinator Todd Munkin. And she says that Cliff Kingsbury, who got fired by the commanders in a wild day, is potentially a name to watch for the Ravens. and my ears perked up when I heard that because I thought, man, I don't really feel like Todd Bunkin was the issue with this football team.

10:39Diante Lee:And so I do wonder just about a guy like, you know, Eric DaCosta feeling the pressure and other people feeling the pressure. We got to win a Super Bowl with Lamar Jackson. And do they have the answers or do they not have the answers? Can they identify what the issues are or can they not identify what the issues are? What did you make of that report about Bunkin? I think it doesn't necessarily pass my smell test. I think that the framing on that feels off. I'm not saying that Diana Rossini's reporting is off. I'm saying the feeling on the wording of that feels off to me. What my read is, is that this was probably Eric DaCosta saying, hey, I have a guy for you to run our offense.

11:16And John Harbaugh may be saying, if I'm the one running this program, I'm telling you who I want to be my offensive coordinator. I don't know if this was particular to Todd Munkin. this might've been Eric DaCosta trying to pull a Howie Roseman and saying, Hey man, if you want to keep this gig, as long as you want to keep this gig, I'm going to have, you know, this is my$75 million quarterback, right? For lack of a better term. And this is my roster for lack of a better term. This might've been kind of a pulling rank maybe type of thing. And maybe John Harbaugh says, Hey, I'm not operating that way.

11:47And now you kick that up the chain to the team owner and the team owner has to make a decision. I do think it's tricky. This is where you might feel really sour if you're John Harbaugh. Because if I'm him, I'm looking at this and saying, hey, in my 18 years, we go to the playoffs all the time. I basically never have a bad team. Why does Eric, Eric Dacosta isn't Ozzie Newsome, right? Like respectfully. And I like Eric Dacosta. I think he's made up of the right kind of stuff. I think his approach is right. When you hear him talk about free agency and how he values draft picks and all of those things and trying to retain the talent you have in your building for as long as possible.

12:20I think all of those are effective tentpoles to build a sustainable franchise today. However, I don't know if Eric DaCosta and the successes that he's had in walking those things out necessarily grants you the right to come in and say to John Harbaugh, who's a Super Bowl champion and is one of the best Ravens coach, if not the best Ravens coach of all time, to say, you can't have this gig anymore. If you have this gig, you have to do it on my terms specifically. And again, if that's where you kind of have that parting of ways, then I think ultimately you do have to turn the page as an organization.

12:50Diante Lee:Yeah, I think more reporting will come out. Not the last time we're going to be talking about this. Let's take a break and then get to the million dollar question, whereas Deontay might have said the$75 million question. Who is going to coach Lamar Jackson and the Ravens and get them over the hump? We'll do that when we come back. The Ringer NFL Show is brought to you by FanDuel. Football fans, we've waited all season for this. It's time to flip the switch to playoff mode on FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, all FanDuel customers can get in on the action with a wild card reward for the NFL wild card round.

13:24Diante Lee:Just pick your card and you can win up to a 100 % profit boost. Head to fanduel.com slash ringer NFL for a chance to double your winnings for the NFL wild card round. Play your game with FanDuel, an official sports betting partner of the NFL playoffs. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky or Wyoming. opt-in required. Rewards or non-withdrawable restrictions apply, including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements, and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut.

14:08Snoring? Gasping during sleep? Feeling fatigued? Wake up is ZepBound Terzepatide, the first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. ZepBound is an injectable prescription medicine that may help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. ZepBound should be used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity. ZepBound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. ZepBound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines.

14:45It is not known if ZepBound is safe and effective for use in children. Do not share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take ZepBound if allergic to it or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop ZepBound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, depression, or suicidal thoughts before scheduled procedures with anesthesia.

15:13If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZetBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit ZetBound.lily.com. Zetbound and its delivery device base in QuickPin are registered trademarks owned or licensed by Eli Lilly and Company, its subsidiaries or affiliates.

15:39Diante Lee:All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. Deontay, this is easily the best job available by my estimation. You know, stable ownership. They'll stick with a coach for a long time if he's doing a good job. You have a GM in place who even, you know, some of the not perfect as we just alluded to, but I still think a good GM has the right philosophy. They've been a good team. And most importantly, you don't have to answer the question that gets coaches hired or fired in the NFL, which is what's your plan at quarterback? Because you have a quarterback who has two MVPs under his belt. Who should the Ravens be calling to say this would be a great option for an upgrade for a guy who can get us over the hump and replace John Harbaugh?

16:24Well, to the point that you made to open up this segment, right? This is one of those jobs where if you're a head coach in search or you're a coordinator in search, you call your agent and say, whatever date you just said with X team, I need you to move that. I need my next week to be open because if Baltimore calls, I'm on the first thing smoking to Baltimore. I need to be able to get in there if they want to interview me and I want to get in there as early as possible. I do think that because their quarterback situation is secure, this actually opens up the door for them to take considerations that you might not if you were Tennessee and you have a young quarterback who's not established yet.

16:57I think a place like Tennessee, you want to be very focused on my head coach needs to be on lockstep with my quarterback. I think in Baltimore, really, your head coach's job is to go into Lamar, is that Marine Lamar Jackson into the office and say, what do you want to do with this offense? And then I will go try to find an offensive coordinator to maximize that. Right. Like you don't want to mess. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. So I think that if you're a defensive coach, this actually would be a great opportunity for you to come in and compete pretty early. So I put out a tweet right before we jumped on saying that to me, the sequence in one way or another should probably be something like Brian Flores, Jesse Minter and Kevin Stefanski as my top three.

17:34And you can maybe swap one of those guys out for Robert Sala. Right. Your mileage may vary on how you feel about who owns the blame for the failures in New York. Right. But I would say you want to call Jesse Minter because he's been in the building. He knows Baltimore. Or he was one of those guys, you know, like Mike McDonald that you rehomed to Michigan when Jim Harbaugh was at Michigan. Hey, go learn how to call a defense. Go learn what it's like to be in that chair to have to make those calls. And then when you're ready, we'll bring you back. And then Jim gets an NFL job and he brings Jesse with him.

18:02Right. So it worked out that way. I would say if it's not going to be Jesse Minter, then maybe you go call a guy like Brian Flores. He was probably the most tenuous name on this list for some people because of the failings that happened in Miami. Right. You obviously have the disconnect with Tua Tonga-Vailoa. This is to say nothing of the open litigation that's still being brought against the NFL and the Giants specifically because of all the Bill Belichick text message drama about who did and didn't get that head coaching gig. And then there's also the Dolphins piece of it where he's talking about potential collusion with the team owner to try to bring Tom Brady out of retirement, et cetera, et cetera.

18:38Right. I think that that would be a disqualifying factor for Flores for a lot of places. I think Baltimore is maybe one of the only organizations that can insulate a head coaching candidate from all of that outside noise and just allow you to coach football. And then the third name on my list is Kevin Stefanski. And to me, that's like a stability. You know what you're going to get stylistically in terms of your offense, two-time coach of the year. If you're going for something that I think is probably more in line with what you just had with Harbaugh and maybe just a fresher voice with a similar message, I think Stefanski would probably be a good pick in that regard.

19:10Those are the three that I had at the top of my list.

19:12Diante Lee:as you were saying it, I was working it out in my head. Who do I, who do I actually think the Minter thing makes a lot of sense to me, to, to your point, uh, NFL organizations, they like familiarity. Yep. The Ravens, they would like to have a coach. This doesn't always work out, but I'm sure they would love to have a coach who is there for a long time. So from a personality standpoint to have somebody who's been in your building, who, you know, just how do they operate day to day? Who do they get along with? What are they like from a relationship perspective, what are their philosophies on coaching, on team building, all those things.

19:48Diante Lee:With Jesse Minter, there's not a lot of guesswork there. You're not meeting him for the first time. You've seen him do those things. You know he can coach a good defense. He's done that with the Chargers there. So that I think would be appealing to me if you feel like he's got those leadership skills. And then that goes back to the report we mentioned in the beginning. I wonder who does Jesse Minter, because if you're a defensive coach, you have to say, here's who I'm bringing in as offensive coordinator. We're going to have a top five offense with Lamar Jackson. And who is that higher going to be?

20:16Diante Lee:I was going to say, we don't have him tied to any offensive name that makes it clear coming in the door. So that's a little tricky. So if you're like, you have to think about who's putting the pieces together. And it's Eric DaCosta is leading the way with the owner, Steve Bishotti. But I think DaCosta probably looks at this and says, man, if we strike out on this head coaching hire, I might not get another one. Now he might, he's been there for a long time. but I'm sure he's feeling that a little bit. So is there some kind of partnership between, Hey, he has an affinity for Cliff Kingsbury. Let's bring in Jesse mentors, the head coach.

20:48Diante Lee:And now we got a good sort of fat new foundation, fresh ideas here. That makes sense. Brian Flores, you know, I would have to know like, what did he kind of learn from that experience in Miami, just in terms of culture and relationships with players. But just on paper, I can just picture him coaching that Ravens defense. And we're just like, man, they are tough to deal with for the next, however long. It almost reminds me like... You want to talk about identity? Like identity fit? I mean, one for one. Yes, organization. Absolutely. Yeah, it almost reminds me like Buddy Ryan, Randall Cunningham, those Eagles, Kayla.

21:21Diante Lee:The defense is going to be sick. Quarterback's great. Hey, we have a high floor here. Go figure it out and we'll be good enough to get into the playoffs. Right, but he would have to answer the same question about offensive coordinator. And then Kevin Stefanski's interesting. I could see that being a fit in terms of just, all right, let's give this guy a second chance or more stable organization. He's going to be a good voice for us. He's going to work with us. He's analytically minded. All those things, I could see that one making sense as well. Even though, as I like to point out, Deontay, the Browns did go eight and 26 the last two years and they had the worst offense in the NFL in back-to-back seasons.