NFC Madness: What We Learned About Contenders in Week 3, With Ted Nguyen

0:00Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Sheil Kapadia. A wild week three in the NFL. Upsets, comebacks, blocked kicks, you name it. We had it all. But my big takeaway is that the NFC is just going to be a roller coaster this season with no obvious favorite, a bunch of good but flawed teams. Eagles looked inept for a half. Rams blew a 19 point lead. Packers got upset by the Browns. 49ers might have suffered another big injury. So I need someone to help me make sense of all of it. And that is my friend from The Athletic, Ted Wynn. Ted, how are we feeling? Feeling good. Been a wild week, but this is what we live for, right?

0:42It's a wild game. So I'm excited to get going. That's right. That's what we live for. And then we'll make some predictions. And then we'll look back a couple months from now and be like, what were we thinking during that pod we did back in week three? So we're going to get to all of it. Let's take a break. We come back. We talk about what we saw in the NFC today. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by FanDuel and the NFL is officially back. So if you're going to be in it, be in it with FanDuel. They've got the goods, futures, live betting, SGPs, your way bets, all of it. The app's clean, it's fast.

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3:17All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. So yeah, so this is the deal. We're going to go through some of these teams that we looked at as contenders and talk about what we saw today, what we learned, are we worried? Are we encouraged? And Ted, we got to start down the street from me in Philadelphia, Eagles-Rams, great game in the early window. And I actually want to start with the Los Angeles Rams because they were very close to being the story of week three. If they finish that game versus the Eagles, if they improve to 3-0, all we're talking about is watch out for the Rams. They might be the best team in the NFC, but they blew the lead.

3:53And we can point to the blocked field goals and other factors, but I feel like all these teams we're going to talk about have sort of fatal flaws. And I wonder if the Rams' fatal flaw is Sean McVay's game management because I thought he turtled in this game. I thought he took his foot off the gas. And this has been an issue throughout Sean McVay's career, the game management, the getting too conservative. I mean, they had so many opportunities to build a bigger lead. And he just kept choosing the conservative option over and over and over again. Let me give you some examples, Ted, to jog your memory.

4:26Second quarter, fourth and three from the Eagles, 15. It's just a 13-7 game. He kicks the field goal. End of the second half. They've got the ball at the Eagles 36 yard line, a minute 30 left. He plays for the field goal, fourth and two in the third quarter. Eagles 49 punts, fourth and two from the Eagles 18, 846 left. They're up 26, 21. So a field goal makes it 29, 21. It's not like it makes it a full two possession game. He kicks and the field goal gets blocked. In addition to that, they waste two timeouts in the second half. just with the play clock running down, they could have used that on the final drive.

5:06And so to be clear here, I'm not saying it's the most important part of his job. He is a great coach. He's an elite schemer, an elite play caller, an elite game planner. I know we want to talk about that, but I just don't understand why he hasn't addressed this. I know he's talked about it before, but just the game management stuff with him, with Kyle Shanahan, it continues to creep up. So do you have an answer for me? Sean McVay, Kyle, some of these other coaches kind of from that tree. They're so detailed with so much, but for stuff like the game management, it comes back to bite them. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely an issue.

5:41And it's strange because the play calling, I felt like wasn't conservative in the second half because they're taking shots late into the game. And if you're that aggressive from a play calling standpoint, why wouldn't you be more aggressive on fourth down? And it's frustrating, but at the same time, they still should have won that game. You know, you get one of those field goals in, you win the game towards the end. So it's frustrating. The timeout usage is frustrating. Side note, Kyle Shanahan did go for it on fourth down twice against the Cardinals. Okay, so there's some hope. Yeah, he could have shelled up at the end and didn't go for fourth down, but he went for a fourth down and he threw a bomb to Ricky, or they called a bomb to Ricky Pearsall for a big catch.

6:28So, you know, maybe Kyle Shannon is changing his stripes, but we're talking about the Rams now. And I get it's frustrating because, you know, you're doing the hard stuff right as far as game planning and play calling. I thought he had an excellent game plan against the Eagles defense today. And, you know, we talked about this before the pod, but the Rams were starting to transition more into an under-centered team. and this process started last year. When they first got Matthew Stafford, they kind of went away from that Jared Goff offense. They went to more shotgun, more spread formations. They wanted to make Stafford comfortable.

7:06They wanted to take advantage of the dropback passing game. But last year, they went up to 45 % under center, second just to the Lions. And this year, they're up to 65%. So they even increased it more. And in this game, they look like old school Rams, condensed formations, under center, motion. using Pukunokua in the run game, all those things. And it's partly in response to Vic Fangio himself because the whole league is going towards its Vic Fangio too high type of defense. So now Sean McVay is going back and responding by going under center, running more gap scheme, getting back into that run game and going back to more play action.

7:47And today it perfectly culminated into a really nice first half when they were just owning the line of scrimmage. And then in the second half, they were still able to run the ball effectively. But like you mentioned, those fourth down issues and just couldn't score in the red zone, that's what ultimately did them in. Yeah, their run game was awesome in this game. I think going back to last year, it's like the best rushing performance against the Eagles just in terms of success rate since Vic Fangio became the defensive coordinator. So I'm with you. Like McVay was in his bag for a lot of this game.

8:22I mean, they had the Eagles on their heels. Like you said, they were taking shots downfield. It was under center play action. It was run game. A lot of it was really working. And I just wonder if he looks back at it and goes, all right, you know, there were some opportunities there because it's funny with McVay. Like, I feel like Shanahan usually just kind of pooh-poohs it and it's like, well, you don't know the circumstances of this. McVay has addressed this in the past where he's like, yeah, you know, maybe it is something I need to work on specifically with the timeouts. And I know he hired a sort of a strategist last year to help him with it.

8:56And maybe he just needs a little reminder because I don't think he's ignorant or arrogant about the game management stuff. He just needs a reminder that this stuff can be the difference between wins and losses. And to your point, it's not like they lost the game just because he did this, but it's the NFL. The margins are very slim and it could be special teams. It could be one penalty, but it could also be the game management stuff. So overall, I feel like for even that rant I went on, if I were a Rams fan, I think I still feel very good about this team. You know, they went toe to toe with an Eagles team that won the Super Bowl last year.

9:32Do you still kind of put them in that top tier of NFC contenders? Yeah, I mean, it stinks they lost, but I actually feel a lot better about the Rams after this game than I did coming in because I just didn't think they had the ability to own the line of scrimmage like they did. and they did it against a very good front with the Eagles too. But the big concern with the Rams is their secondary, and that definitely played out in the second half. They lost to Killa Witherspoon, who's an okay corner, but at least he has size. Their two corners they have now both weigh 180 pounds, and you saw that kind of play out because A.J.

10:09Brown just punked them in the second half. So that is a concern. Their secondary is very bad. if their pass rush doesn't get home, you could beat them on the corners. But I just like this offense and their ability to win in different ways. But that secondary is concerning. All right, so secondary, McVay's game management, but you still feel good about the Rams. That's a great transition to the team they played today, the Philadelphia Eagles, and an offense that in the first half was a complete disaster. 33 total yards. Then they get behind, and all of a sudden they take the training wheels off.

10:45You know, Ted, there's been, like we always talk about quarterbacks. Hey, when teams know you have to pass, how do you perform? That can sometimes filter it in a certain way. And I know that's been a conversation with Jalen Hurts, but they're down 26-7 in the third quarter. And from there, Hurts goes 17 for 24 for 209 yards and three touchdowns. And again, that was with the Rams knowing they had to pass the ball. All of a sudden, oh, A.J. Brown. Remember him? Devontae Smith, Dallas Goddard. It's like this team can be so confusing and so frustrating at times. Like, why does it take that type of situation for them to realize you've got AJ Brown on the outside against these smaller corners?

11:23Like he doesn't have to be wide open. Just give him some shots. They start doing that. And all of a sudden they start going up and down the field. So I wonder with this Eagles team, I think their flaw is certainly this passing game. Can you count on it week in and week out? But there's also a chance that this is like an aha moment. and they come out and they're like, all right, we don't need to be so conservative. We don't need to always prioritize avoiding turnovers. We've got so much talent. We don't even need to have the best scheme. We just need to get the ball to our playmakers and this offense is going to look a little different.

11:56So that was my big takeaway from this game. Yeah, and I will say having, you know, Lane Johnson's injury was big. And when Fred Johnson came in, it felt like that totally changed the game. And it must be nice to have like different options. you could just put in a right tackle. Not a lot of teams have that. Shout out to Jeff Stoutland for getting guys ready. And it just felt like they really struggled at the right tackle position. And as soon as Fred Johnson came in, it's not like he was great, but he provided the stability for this line and just gave Hertz just a little extra time for him to get the ball downfield.

12:31And it was huge. And I don't think they made any major adjustments, but they were a lot better at picking up some of the blitzes and simulated pressures that Chris Shula was throwing at them and they were able to hit some explosive plays off of it. So yeah, credit to the Eagles offensive line and Fred Johnson. I thought he made a major difference in this game. Yeah, Lane Johnson goes down in the first quarter and they bring in Matt Pryor to play right tackle, which I think was a bit of a surprise. And Chris Shula, to his credit, he was doing an awesome job of like, I'm going to throw different stuff at that offensive lineman who just came into the game on the right side.

13:06They got a sack fumble of Jalen Hurts to open up the second half. And then the Eagles are like, all right, let's try a different backup right tackle to your point. And that's Fred Johnson. And he comes in and we'll see how long Lane Johnson's out. If he's going to miss any time, if he's going to be fine. It was a neck injury. But Fred Johnson came in and it didn't have to be perfect. But you just had to kind of give the offense a chance. So I just wonder about their offensive philosophy, how they look at a game like this. because it's just been so much of, hey, run the ball, run the ball, only pass it if we have to, low risk passes, nothing downfield.

13:41And it's just like, AJ, you have AJ Brown. You know, you don't have to play that way. And I wonder if they get away from the team they were last year when it was like, our defense is elite. Our run game produces explosive plays. We don't have to be great in the passing game. If now they look at it and say, okay, we are a different team. Our defense might not be quite as good. We might not get the same explosive plays in the run game. Let's take some of what we saw there in the second half against the Rams and let's not wait till we're down 26-7 in the next game here. So I think that's their flaw, the offense.

14:15But I feel a little bit better about the Eagles because you saw that the passing game can do it when they're called on to do it. How do you feel about them now compared to, let's say, Sunday morning before they played this game? Yeah, it's weird. I do feel a little bit better about both teams. And maybe it's a first-year coordinator thing where he feels like, you know, like, I can't mess this up. I don't want to mess this up. We were a Super Bowl team last year. And, you know, it does take some balls to be ballsy, you know, to call some of these high-risk plays that are a little bit more high-risk.

14:49So maybe that, you know, he had this experience and sees that it's not going to be the end of the world. He puts the ball into Jalen Hurst's hands. This opens up things for him. and then he goes into the next game and feels like he can open things up a little bit. Yeah, they go to Tampa next week, who we're going to touch on here a little bit later. Let's take a break. Let's come back. Let's talk about the Green Bay Packers, another NFC contender who showed some flaws today. The Ringer NFL Show is brought to you by FanDuel. FanDuel is changing the way you live bet football and it starts with NextDrive SGPs.

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17:30All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. So Ted, the Packers are up 10-0 against the Cleveland. They're seven and a half point favorites today at Cleveland. They're up 10-0 with four minutes left. They lose 13-10. They're now 2-1 on this season. What is your big takeaway from the Packers' loss here? and do you feel much differently about them than you did before this game? I don't feel too bad about the Packers. I kind of saw them struggling. I kind of thought they were going to struggle coming into this game. Just because when you look back at the Browns, when their defense was elite in 2023, they had some crazy home-away splits.

18:15In 2023, their EPA per snap at home was 30.4. When they were away, it was 3.0. Their points per drive when they were at home, 0.92, less than a point per drive. When they were away, it was 2.03. And we're seeing, it's a very short sample size, three games, but we're seeing some of that starting to kind of come up again this season. And I don't know if it just has to do with, They really need that crowd noise and get the opposing offense into a silent count. But yeah, they looked phenomenal at home today. You could tell the Packers just did not have confidence that they could block that four-man rush.

19:04They had some offensive linemen on the injury report coming back today, but it just didn't feel like they came in with a game plan. They were going to attack this Browns defense downfield. They had a bunch of screens called. Jordan Love's air yard per attempt was 1.9, the lowest of his career. That's crazy. Yeah. 1.9. Yeah. I mean, he had one pass travel, more than 10 yards. And it's Jordan freaking love. Like, yeah, he doesn't play that way. So there was definitely something the Browns were doing or that kind of had the Packers out of sorts in this game. Yeah. And he was sacked five times even with that low air yards per target.

19:45So, yeah, Miles Garrett was a menace. Malik Collins inside was a menace. They were afraid of this pass rush, and they had reason to because they just couldn't block these guys. Yeah, the Packers had right tackle Zach Tom, who missed the last game, comes back for this game but re-injures his torn oblique. So they were dealing with some injuries, but they didn't deal with it well, like you said. I mean, this Browns defense got after him. Jordan Love does not take a lot of – he's not a quarterback, who takes a lot of sacks. He's not a quarterback who checks it down a lot. And both those things happened in this game.

20:20Those five sacks are tied for the most of his entire career. They had 12 passes at or behind the line of scrimmage in this game. I mean, that's, it was just kind of wild to watch. It did not look like the Packers offense. At the same time, I'm kind of with you. It's sort of one weird game, one weird matchup where the Browns now, to your point, they did a good job against Joe Burrow in week one at home. Then they, man, They've had a tough Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Jordan Love the first three weeks of the season, but they did a good job defensively against this Packers offense. So maybe this could end up being a good thing for the Packers.

20:56You know, they were sort of anointed. I know it was only two weeks, but all the talk in the NFL was the Packers added Micah Parsons. They look like a juggernaut. They look like the best team in the NFC. I know even their one of their tackles this week, Rasheed Walker, I think was asked about potentially going undefeated and poor guy took the bait. a little bit on that question. So yeah, you can't be doing that. So maybe this resets them a little bit because I don't see a real fatal flaw unless those O-line injuries catch up to them. They seem like maybe the most complete team in the NFC. Yeah, I agree with you.

21:32I think even with some offensive line injuries, I trust their offensive line coach. I trust Matt LaFleur to find some answers. And I think this defense, I believe it's an elite defense. I mean, they pretty much shut down to Brown for most of this game. They had two explosive rushes, a 14-yard rush and a 38-yard rush. Other than that, the Browns didn't do anything. They're mainly a cover one team, but they only played cover one 13.1 % of the time today. They mixed up a bunch of coverages. And on that interception, they did something cool. It was one of the Packers' main staples, passing concepts that they love on third and medium for forever since Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers is triple slants.

22:15They'll line up three receivers to one side. All three receivers run a slant. They could pick one. And the Browns went into man coverage. And then on the inside slant, they switched assignments where Grant Delpit looked like he was playing man-to-man with the inside receiver. He zones off. The linebacker picks up the inside slant. And that's why Jordan Love had no idea it was coming. And it got picked off and intercepted. and that was the biggest play of the game. Yeah, high leverage play. I think Jordan Love said afterwards he didn't even see Delpit when he was throwing that pass and that's an interception late in the game that really got the Browns back into it and got them the win there.

22:57So, okay, we're not panicking about these teams, Packers and Rams, who have lost so far. Let's get to these last two, just Bucs or 49ers, both 3-0 teams, both dealing with some injuries, both escape with victories today. which team do you feel better about after three three weeks the bucks or the 49ers i feel i feel better about the 49ers i i think the bucks have some major injury issues that um like they're they're missing uh their two offensive linemen i believe are out for the season uh chancy chancy's out and he he was a mate you know he was expected to take a big leap and be a major part of their pass rush this season um and they lost liam cohen who i thought was one of the best play callers in the league and Josh Gazzard I think is doing a good job but you know we still don't know what level he's going to be at quite yet and their defense gave up a ton of points to a Jets a bad Jets offense with Tyron Taylor so it's definitely concerning I mean I think they'll still be fine I mean Baker Mayfield is playing at such a high level right now but I just feel like the Niners are going to make a run I mean they They do have injury issues, but some of their guys are coming back.

24:13I believe Nick Bosa, they said they feel like he might have avoided an ACL injury. But they were able to beat a very good Seattle team. We know Seattle is pretty good now in week one. And they won two games with Mac Jones at quarterback. And just credit to Kyle Shanahan. He just keeps finding answers, even with all these injuries. They were down to only Ricky Pearsall at receiver today, and then Ricky Pearsall goes out and has a 100-yard day. They can't run the ball, but then Christian McCaffrey is having a prolific season as a receiver. So I think as Brock Purdy comes back and they get some of their guys back, they're going to make a run.

24:59And this defense is really young, too. So I feel like they're going to get better under Robert Sala. So I'm buying stock on this Niners team. Yeah, up in Stout, the young corner had a big play at the end of that game. Cardinals had a chance to drive and put the game away. And he comes up with the pass breakup. And then Mac Jones, Ted, playing on like one leg. He's got the knee brace on. They go 63 yards and kick the game-winning field goal there. And to your point, Shanahan had a great screen call to Christian McCaffrey on that last drive that picked up 20 yards or something. That was the key play in that drive.

25:36So, yeah, I think if you told 49ers fans, You're going to have these injuries in the beginning of the season. Mac Jones is going to start two games. I don't think they care how it looks. If you come out of that 3-0, you're feeling pretty good. It's just, it feels like when one thing works well for them, now all of a sudden you had the Bosa injury today. And to your point, they said they don't think it's an ACL, but there's nothing definitive. So that's a big one to keep an eye on this week. I do feel like if they lose Nick Bosa for an extended period of time, now all of a sudden that pass rush, he is that force-multiplying type player.