Preseason Week 1 QB Review, Best NFL Teams of the Quarter Century, and More

22:31No, no, it wasn't the type of performance that's going to make you readdress your priors or anything like that. Like I thought it was an easy game plan for him. Of course it is it's preseason. I think there are still question marks about his ceiling as a thrower of the football. And I think like you hit the head on the nail, like he's some guy, I think he's a guy that will eventually be able to color in between the lines, but I don't think he's at that point yet. And when you combine that with question marks about his physical ceiling, it's hard to get excited about watching him in year one. I do think he's a guy that can benefit from sitting on

23:01Steven Ruiz:the bench, seeing other pros do it, getting another year in the playbook. But I think the problem with that is Brian Dayball might not be around next year, probably won't be around next year. Might not be around by the end of the year. Yeah. And we know how much that brain trust in New York really fell in love with Jackson Dart compared to the rest of the league. So it's a tenuous position to be in for a young quarterback. But it was a decent start, and I think people around the league that maybe weren't paying attention, deep attention to what was actually going on in that game, were very blown away.

23:32I'm not ready to start the conversation about whether he should start or not. I still think Russell Wilson's ahead of him. I would put Jameis Winston ahead of him, for that matter. But, decent start for him. Do you want to talk about Tyler Shuck? I didn't really watch the game. They didn't put the film up on NFL Pro yet. I wasn't watching that game live. I don't know. I saw the pick. I saw the deep throw, which seemed like an open throw. We know the guy can throw deep, but it wasn't a performance that would move me very much from what I saw. Not moved at all. The pick is like very emblematic. If you are a Tyler Shuck skeptic of why you're skeptical of him, because it is like a lot of arm talent.

24:07I would say like he spins the ball short of Cam Ward, the best of all the guys we've discussed so far, right? Like he has a very natural arm talent. I would hope so, I guess for his age and how many, how many hours he's probably put in to getting his mechanics together. You can definitely see some of the arm, some of the arm talent, some of the arm strength when it comes to just ripping the ball. I don't know if the processing is all the way there. Like you said, the deep throw, a lot of that is like guy wide open. You could, you put the ball where it's supposed to be based on the design, but that out route throwing the ball outside the numbers, the timing was off.

24:39The placement was bad. and that's exactly what happens in the league when you do those types of things as a young quarterback and I would say the rest of what I saw was a lot of underneath throws man it's a lot of five yard in routes it's a lot of hitches it's a lot of slants which like is cool but there's nothing to evaluate here really if I'm being honest outside of the interception and I think that that's actually probably going to be a net positive for him learning what you can't do this isn't college where you can just see off corner into the boundary we've got to speed out there I just throw the speed out and I'm looking at the speed out the whole way.

25:13Right. Like I think that that's a learning experience, but for the most part, this didn't move me. And if I'm being honest, if I were Kellen Moore, what is really the difference between playing him in year one and playing Spencer Radler and giving him a shot? About three years of age. Not in, not in shows. Exactly. I can't even do that. Like, that's the good news. He's very young and has plenty of time to learn. The guy's 26 years old. Like they're similarly talented in terms of they, in terms of how they throw. And I would say the Spencer Rattlers are more ambitious, faster than Chuck is. So yeah, I'm kind of leaning in your direction.

25:45I think I'd give him the shot. You're joining? You're joining the Rattler, the Ratman bus? It's filling up. It's not filling up. There's still plenty of seats left available. So yeah, so we hit on all of the rookie quarterbacks of note. Let's come back. Let's take a break and then come back and then talk about some second and third year quarterbacks.

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26:35Steven Ruiz:Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, welcome back. We just talked about the rookies. Let's talk about a guy that might as well be a rookie. J.J. McCarthy obviously went down with an injury last year, lost his rookie season. he made his 2025 debut uh was it on saturday i think it was on saturday or sunday against the texans he goes four for seven for 30 yards that's 4.3 yards per attempt he that drive did end with three points and it did go 13 plays so we only got him for one drive but we got plenty to talk about out of that one drive uh i guess i'll start like i i think we've been harping on the difference he has a strong arm we've been saying this he has a strong arm but we don't know about his arm talent and his ability to layer the ball over the second level defenders.

27:33Steven Ruiz:And I think we saw that actually play out in this game. It was on a third and four, I believe. He had an inbreaker. Lucky Johnson was the one running the route. It was open. It was there. There was a linebacker in the way. I thought J.J. McCarthy did a good job of using his eyes to kind of move that linebacker and wrong foot him, get him to go in one direction opposite of the route. But then he just fired in a fastball that was about five feet too high over Johnson's head. Incomplete. It goes to fourth down. Now, he does scramble for a first down after that next play, which is a good sign because I think he's going to have to be a scrambler to really get the most out of him this year.

28:06But there were several bouts of inaccuracy. I don't know how much you saw of this, but what did you see out of J.J. McCarthy's 2025 debut? I think I saw a guy that I think people maybe just had improperly pegged coming into the league. I think that people looked at him at Michigan and saw some of the efficiency in terms of completions and not turning the ball over and assume that there's a level of polish to his game. But when I watch him in an NFL context, it actually comes across a lot more raw, a lot more in need of a very specific kind of molding, because I don't think he really understands how to layer the ball.

28:43And that was the story at Michigan, right? Like you would turn on the Michigan tape and every ball, straight line, 95 miles an hour down the middle of the plate. right? And if he's off platform, now that starts to spray a whole lot more. And I think that we saw that in the preseason game, even the comeback throw to Jordan Addison, like impressive throw. He put some serious RPMs on that ball, but Jordan Addison had to reach way back to be able to catch that and try to land in bounds, right? Like it doesn't have to be that way. Some of the mistakes he's going to make will probably be because he's trying to put everything on the ball at all times in a way that's not necessary.

29:19So I do think that Kevin O 'Connell kind of have to reel that back in, but it definitely made me think of Sam Darnold, especially what he was early in his career. And hey, maybe if you have a Sam Darnold-esque talent that's young enough, that has not been jaded and scarred by his poor experiences, maybe when he's running with the first team and they have a legitimate NFL type of game plan in, that he is able to make those throws in the middle of the field. And we know that the Vikings offense is going to be so heavily manicured to designing those throws that McCarthy can make, that for the most part, his play-by-play stuff will be fine.

29:53I will just say though, some of the biggest issues for me is what happens when the pocket is moved, right? When he's off his platform, when his timing is disrupted by a beat or two, that's really where the accuracy issues come up. That's really where the decision-making is going to be stressed and strained the most for a guy like him who comes from Jim Harbaugh where the protection is always perfect and we're really not asking you to stress or strain yourself as a quarterback to find completions, that's going to be a layer of his game that he has not really had to work upon at any time in his college career or last year because he was injured.

30:29So this is going to be a lot of learning on the fly. And I think that what Justin Jefferson said at the start of training camp was like, you can't put any veteran expectations on a guy like this. This is not just a rookie. This is a guy who really has not been a dyed-in-the-wool, true drop-back quarterback yet. And it's going to take some time, I think, for him to figure out what that means for him in an NFL context. Yeah, I think last year, what we saw out of Minnesota's offense, what we saw out of Sam Darnold, has generated a lot of optimism about the offense and what it could be. Like, you plug in a guy like Sam Darnold, he plays like that.

31:02If you imagine plugging in a talented first-round pick into this offense, then you're

31:10Steven Ruiz:You're expecting something similar to what you got out of last year, but that might be to his detriment because, like you said, this is going to be a learning experience. I don't think he's quite the thrower Sam Darnold is, like in terms of touch throws and layering balls and doing all that and throwing outside the numbers. I also think you're going to have to pare down the offense because he's a rookie, essentially. He's a second-year player. Sam Darnold has had experience in similar systems. He's been around the league. He's been in different systems. You're not going to be able to run as much stuff, I think, if there are accuracy problems, if the decision-making is inconsistent, he's going to have to add another layer to the offense.

31:44Steven Ruiz:And I think it's going to have to be with his legs. And then you get into the frame concern, like the size concern. And if he can take those hits, if he is a scrambler, he does look small back there. That's what has me concerned. I think it's going to at least take another year for us to get him to a place where he can replicate what we saw out of Minnesota's offense last year. It wasn't like an overly concerning performance It's outside of the layering of the one pass. It's a small sample size. But it does make me feel like I want to pump the brakes a little bit on whatever optimism I have about the Vikings.

32:18Even though I still love that defense, I love the infrastructure around him, I love Kevin O 'Connell, I think Justin Jefferson is the best receiver in the NFL, which is going to make his job easier. But we saw things fall apart at the end of last year. I'm not sure if J.J. McCarthy has enough in him yet to kind of bridge that gap and make up for the change at quarterback and the lack of experience they have at quarterback now. Yeah, I mean, he's got to go on the Jared Goff plan in 2017, 2018, man. Like, this is very pared down, probably do a lot of tempo stuff. Obviously, they've added a lot to their trenches to be able to get back.

32:49So I think some of the more tried and true run concepts that you know this offense for, and that's what's going to have to be the driving force. The only issue is that he doesn't have Todd Gurley behind him to be the engine of this thing. So there will be games where he can't escape what's going to be asked of him as a quarterback. but I do think that if Minnesota is as smart as I think they are, if this staff is as smart as I believe them to be, I think they know that this is going to be a training wheel season just to make sure that they're not, you know, leaving him out there to drown on his own.

33:20Yeah. Let's move on to another quarterback, a quarterback we've mentioned already, Bo Nix, who I think probably surprised both of us. I think we had lower expectations for Nix going into last season. I thought he showed off more scrambling ability than I anticipated.

33:31Steven Ruiz:I thought he showed off a little more arm strength than I anticipated, it. But I think he is a quarterback that still has plenty to prove, especially with those expectations at Denver. They're like the sleeper team, the hipster team. If Sheil was here, that's what he would call them. The defense is made for a championship run. Sean Payton, we know, has won a Super Bowl before. He can set quarterbacks up for success. They have great offensive line. They have a potentially very good wide receiver core if some young guys take a step up. But I will say this. I was expecting a little more out of Bo Nix.

34:02Steven Ruiz:I know it's preseason. He He only had 11 attempts. It was against a 49ers defense. I don't know if you saw any of this game, but Robert Sala was like pitching gaps in preseason. Oh, I saw some of the bushes. Some of the bushes. I was like, hey, man, this is like week five, week six material. I don't know if we need to be bringing this out in the preseason opener. Yeah, I was like, what the, if I was Bo Nix, I'd be like, what the hell is this? Why are you doing this? What are you trying to prove? Do you have a point to prove? Come on, man. Like even on the scramble where he kind of threw the ball out, took the safety.

34:28Steven Ruiz:Like that was, he had like seven guys. There's a lot of moving parts up front, man. I would have been annoyed. I would have been annoyed. But even outside of that, if you give him a break for that, just a lot of inaccurate throws. Like he alerted some two go balls. The first one was a little bit outside of Cortland Sutton's frame. The second one was just a terrible decision. Like the quarterback had the route cap. He left it too far inside. He hung it up in the air. Really could have been picked. He had a deep cross under Troy Franklin that he kind of underthrowed. That was like a great play by Chase Lucas, the quarterback.

35:00Steven Ruiz:uh yeah it was it looked like bo nicks from last year it looked like the guy that kind of struggles with the deep accuracy the guy who kind of panics in the pocket when it starts to break down and makes check down throws on the run instead of like setting his feet and doing it he did that on the third down even the fourth down conversion which is probably his best play of the game troy frank franklin again he has to like rise above his head and and catch the ball it's a a high throw and it should be an easy throw for a second year quarterback. So I come out of that game kind of concerned that, like we have said, Bo Nix needs to take a step forward for this offense and this team as a whole to really take a step forward and become a playoff contender.

35:38He went six of 11 for 31 yards, 2.8 yards per attempt. It was against the 49ers backups and three drives. He had three points. It wasn't the most convincing performance. And again, it really reminded me of Bo Nix from last year. 1 ,000%. I'm always here for the cross-sport analogy. You hear in the NBA, they talk about summer league. You'll rarely make yourself a star in the summer league, but you can make yourself look like you don't belong. The guys who look like they don't belong are the ones you have to be most concerned about. For a second-year quarterback who got as many reps as Bo Nix got as a drop-back passer last year because Denver could not run the ball at all, I would expect him to be able to spare a lot better against the defense, even if they're blitzing, because you are literally playing across from the blitzing defensive coordinator every day in practice.

36:25So I would expect him to have a little bit better preparation for some of the looks that he got from San Francisco in the preseason. The accuracy issues were just as much an orange flag, I would say, for me as it was for you. I think that the missed reads at times, the pocket mismanagement at times, that's all stuff that you can explain away as a rookie, especially for a guy like him, who I think is still going through this evolution process and what kind of quarterback he wants to be based on what he was at Auburn when he started his college career, then transferring to Oregon and now in Denver.

36:58I think he's still working his way through that. But even with all that said, man, like you've got a lot of reps. You should know what you can and can't do when you're working with one of the preeminent quarterback gurus that we've had in the modern iteration of the league. It was just not a good showing at all.

37:14Steven Ruiz:Again, it was 11 dropbacks So I don't want to read too far into it He could look great We've seen guys look great in preseason And then be terrible in the regular season We've seen the opposite of that happen But it did look a lot like last year Which I would be concerned if I was a Broncos fan Because the bar has been raised this year There are expectations for this team This team could win If they get top 15 quarterback play It's a team that could win a couple of playoff games That's a Super Bowl level if he's at that spot Yeah So if you're a Broncos fan I feel like your expectations should be a lot higher.

37:43It should be in line with what we had going into this game. And you just didn't meet him. But there's another game next week. There are 17 regular season games. He has plenty of time to prove us wrong.

37:52Steven Ruiz:And just to prove that we are not guys that are stuck to our first take. Let's talk about Bryce Young. Because I thought Bryce Young was really impressive. That's a guy that I've been hard on as a Panthers fan. Didn't really want to draft him with the first overall pick. Thought he was undersized. Thought he didn't really have top-level arm talent. I think he proved a lot of people wrong down the stretch of last year. And I thought this game against the Browns, where he goes four for six for 58 yards, that's 9.7 yards per attempt, a touchdown, takes one sack, but it was only for one yard. And he leads the Panthers to seven points on two drives.

38:22I thought he looked more comfortable and I thought it was a continuation of where he picked off last year. What did you think of it? Same thing. I think that not only for him, I think that for Dave Canales as just like a play designer, it definitely feels like he has a better grasp on what he wants Bryce Young to be within this offense. I think having Ted Royale-McMillan also goes a long way for that, right? Like I think his first big completion was that one-on-one ball out to McMillan, you know, one-on-one coverage. It's like right there, you instantly see like why Bryce Young was so effective at the college level coming into the league.

38:57He can identify where he needs to go with the ball early and do so accurately. And now that he's got a guy like that, just having that as a pressure release valve goes a long way. And then just looking at him in the pocket specifically, which was really where all of his issues were. Pressure would come, it would break down, or he would try to bail out the pocket. And obviously he's just not that level of athlete mobility wise to be able to escape NFL pass rushers. and he definitely doesn't always have the size to be able to reset, find a convenient window to deliver the ball accurately from either.

39:29I think that what we saw in the preseason, while it was relatively limited, is a continuation of what we got down the last five or six weeks of the regular season where it started to look like he was turning a corner. And I think that if he can continue that, and I think bring some of that third down playmaking that we saw at the end of last year and transfer that over to his early down play by getting the ball out early on time accurately. And he has these one-on-one winners and guys that they can design things up for. And McMillan and Xavier Leggett, if Leggett continues to grow as a player, then I'll feel pretty good about it.

40:02I don't think that they're a playoff team. I'm not saying he's going to be a top 12 quarterback in the league, but if he can get to, if he can cross into like the top 20-ish, that's a huge win given the way it looked after the first two weeks of the 2024 season where we were on this podcast, not sure if he was ever going to get the job back after they had benched him. So things look good and hopefully it continues to build. But I was really, really encouraged based off what I saw in the first quarter of last week's preseason game against Cleveland.

40:30Steven Ruiz:Yeah, he really showed a good rapport with McMillan in this game. He should have had a TD throw to him on the little anticipatory throw. I thought that was a very good decision that he placed the ball perfectly. It kind of caught McMillan off guard. So like I can excuse the rookie for that drop. but yeah, the throw down the sideline was perfect, dropped it into a bucket. That's a throw that Xavier Leggett would have dropped last year for sure. So it's refreshing to see him have a wide receiver that can actually make good on those catches. The TD throw was a little weird to me. I don't know if he caught the All-22.

41:00I think on the broadcast it probably looked better than it did on the All-22. He has Jalen Coker wide open. He breaks the pocket. He's flushed outside the pocket, and Coker's kind of running towards the back of the end zone, and he's open in the corner, and there's plenty of room to make the throw.

41:14Steven Ruiz:and it doesn't seem like Young feels confident making the throw, fitting it in a tight window and kind of like points them back towards the inside towards where the defensive back, the Browns defensive back is recovering. The defensive back like plays it horribly and the guy's able to cross his face and get open. But like, I don't know, just, I think I want to see Bryce Young make that throw. I want to see if he has the arm talent to make the throw. I want to see him have the confidence to make that throw because in the NFL, like during the regular season, I mean, you're going to have to make those throws to be the guy that I think he wants to be.

41:42but I do think he's cleared the bar. It's a far cry from last year after week two where, like you said, he looked unplayable. He was making jump throws over defenders. It was hard to watch. It was no surprise that the Panthers ended up benching him but I think I'm back to where I was with him pre-draft where I liked him, I just didn't love him and I didn't love him as the top pick in the draft. My comp before the pre-draft was, honey, I shrunk Joe Burrow

42:06Steven Ruiz:and I'm right back there. He doesn't have elite arm talent. he clearly understands the sport and has a feel for the position I just don't know if he has that Joe Burrow pocket presence where Joe can like go through his progressions from the pocket even if the pocket starts to crumble Bryce has to get outside of that and get a clear view he can't reset like you said and throw over body so I'm still pumping the brakes on like oh he's the franchise quarterback and the Panthers have their guy for the next 10 years I still need to see a full season of this and honestly i think like you said if he becomes a top 20 quarterback i do think that's a win compared to where he was last year but it creates a world of problems for carolina which has to make a decision on his fifth year option next off season if he's only like 20th he like he like makes some strides but it's not convincing what do you i don't know what to do that's tough i don't know what you do but i also think if he continues to grow that way and you don't pick up the fifth year option what message are you sending to this quarterback who has fought his way back into this.

43:03It can get thorny. I think that ultimately that would probably be the best problem to have though. Yeah, yeah. No, that's what you want. But maybe he'll ascend even higher than we think and he'll become like a top 10 guy. All right, let's talk about a guy that was also taken in that same draft. The number, was it number three, number four, Anthony Richardson. He got four dropbacks. But like I said, there's a lot to dig into these dropbacks, especially the one that got him hurt. So just to recount the play, The Ravens send a sim pressure. The line is sliding to its left. There's a free rusher off the right side.

43:40Anthony Richardson never considers him, even though I think he should have been able to flip his eyes. The defensive end to the left side, the side he was looking at, drops out. That's the telltale sign that they're coming from the other direction. He has a receiver open in the flat. He doesn't make the throw. Every single former offensive lineman, former quarterback on Twitter posted a breakdown of this video. If you want to check that out, you can check it out on Twitter. What did you see from Anthony Richardson? I know it doesn't take much for me to be optimistic about him. You're a little more realistic about him.

44:10Did it move you at all? He did have a nice little completion to start the game. I will say that. He did to A.D. Mitchell. I would say we got to see some of the same things we're talking about before we even got to the preseason game that we had heard reported out of camp, which is that the arm control was improving. didn't necessarily mean it was good or great, but that he clearly had a lot more control over his mechanics and his delivery of the ball. I would say the opening drive of that game after they got the pick on Cooper Rush early, it looked like a quarterback that was starting to make some strides.

44:42There was a third down that, you know, ultimately where he was late on the ball, but he stood in the pocket, tried to find a guy open, delivered it with great arm talent. It was just late. So I think it might've been Jalen Armour Davis who got underneath it and almost picked it off. But even than that, I was more so focused on the pocket management and I saw something positive there. The second drive is where we get the sack that ultimately knocks them out of the game. And like you said, a lot of ink has been spilled on who's to blame, why things work out that way. I was part of that discourse in pointing out what the mistakes were in that situation and what you would expect of a quarterback to try to mitigate those problems.

45:20but regardless of that I think that as long as it's just that dislocated pinky you know it seems like he got right back out to practice after getting it treated and taken care of and we haven't heard anything negative out of Indy's camp after that in terms of how he's handled things I think that we should feel in the same we should feel like we're in the same holding pattern now as we did before we got to the preseason opener right like he just needs the reps is the truth of the matter he needs the reps he needs every preseason rep he can get he's going to need every early season rep he can get.

45:50And a lot of this is going to be about his availability. He can't miss games. The dislocated pinky is not his fault. The guy lands on you funny while you're trying to brace yourself. What can you do? But we do need to see him on the field so we can continue to evaluate it because we definitely didn't get anywhere near enough to say that the problems have been addressed quite yet. No, no, even I'm not going to try to sell you on that. Like if I said Bo Nix looked like a lot like he did last year, I feel like Anthony Richardson, we saw the highs that we've seen with the throat AD Mitchell. Like we've seen that before.

46:17We like, I don't know it doesn't it's not any new evidence we've seen him miss plenty of reads and take plenty of hits but I think it does fit the theme that like I know the pinky wasn't his fault but it does fit a recurring theme where he makes a mental mistake and it leads to an injury like this has happened a couple times so far throughout his career but he was back at practice he has been having a good

46:37Steven Ruiz:camp by all accounts our our old buddy Ben Solak the trader himself was at Colts camp today and I think he was saying that Richardson was slinging it around so it seems like he's going to be fine and we won't be subjected to Daniel Jones for a full season. I'm not ready for that. Did you watch any Daniel Jones now? Or did you turn it off? Not a chance, man. Same. Not a chance. That's a healthy brain you got on now. Well, I'm trying. We're fighting the fight for as long as we can. I don't know if Shane Steichen is going to be able to keep us from avoiding some Daniel Jones throughout this season if anything happens to Anthony Richardson.

47:09Steven Ruiz:No, so the Anthony Richardson hype train, which we're still taking a wait-and-see approach. Get back to me in October or whatever. I want to see him string together a few good NFL games, regular season games. We kind of saw a couple of flashes at the end of last year. The Jets game was really impressive, especially the second half. But I'm going to need to see him put together a full game that I don't have to make excuses for a couple of the plays. And that certainly did not happen against the Ravens. It wasn't going to happen in four dropbacks or whatever you had. So I think that's going to cover all the quarterbacks that we wanted to hit on today.

47:39There's going to be more preseason games, more quarterbacks to break down. I'm sure we're going to check back in on Shador later on in the month. But for now, I feel like I got a good feel for a lot of these quarterbacks. I want to see more of Richardson. But like Bryce Young, I feel like I got a good feel for him going into the season. Bo Nix, I want to see a little bit more of. Is there any quarterback that you really are anxious to see again next week? I would say not just next week, but just throughout the rest of the preseason. Jam of Melrose, for me, who we didn't spend a lot of time on today.

48:08We got to watch a few. I got to watch a few of his throws in the preseason game. against Vegas. I mean, it's very Richardson-esque, honestly. Watching him is very Richardson-esque. The ball is not where it needs to be very often. He had a lot of accuracy issues. The thing that I will say about him, and it's true of Richardson, it's true of some of these guys that have come into the league lately. The tuck and run, we talked about that with Jaden Daniels last year. I remember week one against the Bucs, when you were scrambling a ton. There's just this effect of when he tucks the ball and starts running where you realize like there's maybe only two people on the football field on either side of the ball that can run with this dude if he really turns it up to top speed and that's a maybe so you know obviously we don't expect to see him much this year if at all um so the preseason is going to be the only time we really get to evaluate him arm talent is there he's got a strong arm arm control is not the athleticism is very tantalizing and hopefully there's enough quarterback development there to where after Sam Donald's tenure is up.

49:08Maybe that's a guy that can kind of give you a couple of bridge years, be a great athlete, run for a bunch of yards, do the kind of Justin Fields and Pittsburgh thing. And I think that that's an aspiration that I think he can meet if I'm only working off of what we've seen so far in training camp in the first preseason game.

49:24Steven Ruiz:That's a lot of progress from where he was as a college prospect. I mean, you want to talk about a guy that might have been unplayable. Like some of it was really bad. It sounds like a quarterback right up my alley. Arm talent for days, scrambling ability, can't hit the broad side of a bar. That's my type of quarterback. So you don't have to really say any more. I might have to watch him go back and watch that tape against the Chargers and watch him next week, too. Let's take another break and we're going to come back and we're going to talk about the best teams of the last quarter century. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.

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51:21Steven Ruiz:All right, welcome back. Like I said earlier in the show, we're doing a cool feature on The Ringer this week. We're doing a bracket with the best teams of the last 25 years, the last quarter century. I think we've played 25 seasons of NFL ball this century, and we have a lot of great teams that we can remember right now. And I wanted to get your thoughts on this. I wanted to see how you're looking at the bracket. I know the voting has already started. There's already some big, huge leads. I don't want to spoil anything. You can go check that out on theringer.com. But let's just run through this bracket real quick and see what your thoughts are on that.

51:52Steven Ruiz:I want to start with the top half of the bracket where we have the 2013 Seahawks as the number one seed. We have the 2009 Saints as the two seed in that region. And then the 2010 Packers as the four seed and the 2008 Steelers as the three seed. If you're looking at that bracket, which team are you taking out of that thing? I think it's a no-brainer for me, 2013 Seahawks, but any contenders that you might think could upset them maybe? In that bracket, no. I actually think the closest comparison, if we're really talking about team quality versus team quality and not just the outcome of the season, I think that the 2011 Packers is probably the closest team in team quality to them.

52:29I think that we have very rosy, fond memories of the 2012 Ravens because of what we got out of the playoff run. That was a very mid-team that just happened to go 10-6 with a bad quarterback that just went on a heater for a month and won a Super Bowl. I said maybe the 2009 Saints I think that that defense is very underrated um because some of the metrics I think maybe aren't the friendliest compared to some of the other teams that are in this bracket I think that watching them in that year watching what Drew Brees was watching that pass rush and how um aggressive the 09's defense uh for for New Orleans was maybe they can give them a game but the the closest matchup I think is the 2011 Packers and even with them I think when you stack up the accomplishments and the legacy of the Legion of Boom and what that 2013 Super Bowl was, which is like maybe the greatest defensive performance of the last decade or so, it's going to be hard for anybody in this bracket to compete with Seattle in that way.

53:25No, that Super Bowl performance was just... I still remember the way that the camp chancellor hit on the Demarius Thomas drag route. After that play, I think I was like, oh, this game is over. This game is over. They're clearly in their head. That's after the safety... That game was very clearly over very early. Those were two teams playing very different sports at that time.

53:50Steven Ruiz:No, I'm definitely, and I'm with you on the 2009 Saints. I think that's an underrated team. They caused a lot of turnovers, a lot of havoc with that Greg Williams defense. And Drew Brees was at the top of his game. Sean Payton, frankly, was at the top of his game. But yeah, nobody's touching 2013 Seahawks. So let's put them in the final four for us. Let's go down to the other side of that bracket. We already teased this matchup before. 2024 Eagles are the one seed. And they're going up against the 2015 Panthers. There's a team very near and dear to my heart, but I can't even make the argument.

54:16I feel like the 2024 Eagles, in hindsight, are one of the best teams. Like if you look at their statistical profile and their point differential and how they won games, especially after that slow start to the season. I mean, this is one of the better teams that we've seen in the last 10 years. I mean, it went by kind of quietly up until like the end when it looked like they were maybe in contention for the one seed with Detroit, where I think people kind of looked up and was like, oh wait, Philadelphia really hasn't lost since their bye week. You know, like it was a commander's game was basically the last game that they had that they lost going down the stretch of the season.

54:50I think that it's tough for me. And maybe this is a little bit like being too close to the elephant for me since I watched Philadelphia really closely. It's hard for me to extricate what ultimately happened with the way that the offense scuffled outside of Saquon Barkley's touches. Because it was rough. the defense was dominant. The defensive performance was dominant. That's one of the best coverage units that we've had since the 2015 Broncos that beat that Panther team that you were talking about in the Super Bowl. So the Eagles are high up there. I will just say for me, this is me and my childhood, the 2002 Buccaneers, that has a very special place in my heart and soul.

55:30I can just think of the Monday Night Football and Simeon Rice and Booger McFarland and Greg Spires, Derrick Brooks, Rondé Barber, like John Lynch. You're talking like a who's who of defense. And I mean, that underfront, that underfront Tampa 2 style of defense that they built over, you know, four or five years before John Gruden even got there under Tony Dungy and Monty Kiffin, that has an influence on the defense that D 'Amico Ryans is running in Houston right now. That has an influence, frankly, over the way that the 2024 Eagles play their split safety defenses today. In terms of being ahead of the curve and having an influence on the modern style of game defensively, I think of the O2 Bucks, the 2000 Ravens.

56:15I think of those mid-90s Jimmy Johnson, Dallas teams that brought in Cover 4 at the time. That was one of those kind of trailblazing units the O2 Bucks were. And for anybody who doesn't remember what it looked like, you have to go back and watch those playoff games. they forced three turnovers at least in each of their three playoff games they saw a really good Eagles offense and basically blanked them in the snow on the road as a team from Florida which was kind of unprecedented in NFL history at that time like warm weather teams usually really struggled in the snow around that time and got to the Super Bowl against the Raiders I mean it just made Rich Gannon's life a living hell the three great sixes it was ridiculous watching that game from beginning in the end.

57:00I remember the narrative after that game was like, oh, Gruden knew the signs and knew the signals, and that's why they were able to really tamp down on what the Raiders did. No, hell no.

57:09Steven Ruiz:That defense was going to dominate that game no matter what. Another team that I feel like you kind of left out that they influenced was the 2013 Seahawks. Pete Carroll was a Monty Kiffin guy. Monty Kiffin was obviously the defensive coordinator there. Big influence. I think Kyle Shanahan said it himself. Tampa, too, was basically three deep. Seattle's three deep. When it plays out, you have three guys deep, and you have four guys underneath. It's the same kind of the same concept, just with different structures and different run boxes and stuff like that. But no, I really feel like that was the team.

57:39I think

57:39Steven Ruiz:they could have given the Eagles a problem, the 2024 Eagles, but the offense kind of stuck. Brad Johnson specifically is a problem. Keyshawn Johnson, I think can play in the air. Keenan McCardell would be fine. Joe Juravicious, that trio of receivers, I think could show up in a modern context and be just fine. Brad Johnson, based on what we've seen from what Big Fan Jail does to other mid quarterbacks, Brad Johnson probably would have been in hell that game. No, Jalen Carter would have eaten him. He would have been done. I don't know what he would have done. The other team off the route from this bracket, 2013 Broncos, I know they got smacked by the Seahawks, but that was a very, very, very good defense.

58:20A great, very good team. A very historic offense. A very good defense. They just ran into a juggernaut in the 2013 Seahawks. Let's go to the other side of the bracket. Hold on. Before we go, one more team in here that I'm interested in, and I know I'm really interested in what your takes are about it because you spend a lot of time covering this team for the ringer. The 2021 Rams is a really confounding one for me. You know what they are? To me, they're the perfect example of a one game versus full season type of thing, right? Because that offense sputtered at times. They were gangbusters to start the year.

58:55You couldn't blitz Matthew Stafford. You couldn't play man against Matthew Thafford. They couldn't really run the ball for a little while. They sucked on early downs for a little bit. So I think that some of the luster kind of came off of what they were by the time they got to the playoffs. But you look at the quality of teams that they saw. They eliminated the 2021 Bucs, which is basically the same team that had just almost blanked Tampa Bay, or I'm shooting, blank Kansas City in the Super Bowl the year before. They go and beat a really good 49ers team. And again, they probably didn't deserve to win, if we're being honest.

59:29If they're able to catch interceptions, that game probably doesn't go that way. And then they get the gangbusters 2021 Bengals offense that was just go balls all the time. And they're able to win that game. I think that if you put the 2021 Rams against the 24 Eagles or the O2 Bucks, that's one of those like, I think that Matthew Stafford can beat those teams. I don't know if I think Aaron Donald can wreck a game. I don't know if they have enough in terms of the supporting cast around those two guys to beat those loaded rosters, but I would not count them out in any matchup against those teams.

1:00:03Steven Ruiz:No, and honestly, I feel like they just had that one three-game stretch where they, I think they lost three games in a row. There was like a game against the Packers where Stafford threw a kick-six. Yeah, it was an embarrassment against the Packers if I remember right. But outside of that, they were like one of the dominant teams of that season. I think that kind of belies how good they were, their regular season record. I'd also throw the 2005 Steelers as that. Tommy Maddox started to do their losses. Kind of forgotten by history, honestly. Yeah, I wrote the blurb for that one on the site. I think they had the record for their playoff run.

1:00:33Steven Ruiz:The teams they beat combined for 51 wins. They beat the Colts on the road. They beat a good Bengals team that was flying high with Carson Palmer. I know that Carson Palmer got hurt in the beginning of that game. They beat a Broncos team. That was like the Mike Shanahan, the peak of the Mike Shanahan, Jake Plummer offense. and then they just killed a very, very, very talented Seahawks offense that was just running over every team. So I thought that team was a lot better than it's gotten credit for because it went 11-5 during the regular season. Let's go to the other side of the bracket. I don't know if you have to spend too much time in this bracket.

1:01:02I know they didn't win the Super Bowl, but the 2007 Patriots are the number one seed here. I want to watch 2007 Patriots versus the 2000 Ravens, but I think I know how that's going to end. I think Bill Belichick is going to get the better of Trent Dilfer. What do you think? Like, I mean, that game probably ends like 13-0, 10-0. Like, Bill Belichick absolutely puts the Cobra clutch on to trip Dilfer. The 2000 Ravens probably force a Tom Brady turnover or two. But, I mean, that's Randy Moss, man. That's the peak of Randy Moss, the peak of Tom Brady, and the peak of the Patriots brand and their evolution offensively, honestly.

1:01:41Like, it's tough. the closest competitor is probably whoever you think is better between the 01 Rams and the 06 Chargers. And even in that, like we're talking about, we're talking about a Patriots team that was hanging 35 plus on teams very, very easily in that era. I don't, I don't know if anybody can compete with that outside of Eli Manning, apparently. Yeah. You got, you just need a Asante Samuels dropped interception. You need a helmet catch and a miraculous Eli Manning escape. If you get all that, and then you get Michael Strahan and O.C. Or you get a lights-out performance from your front four, maybe.

1:02:17And a brilliant Steve Spagnuolo game plan. You get all that, then you can upset them by three points. But we saw the 2001 Patriots beat the 2001 Rams. The 2007 Patriots are a lot better. And I went back and watched... They can actually score? Yeah. Yeah. I went back and watched the 2001 Rams games, and Jim Johnson was taking Mike Martz to school with his blitz packages. I'm pretty sure Bill Belichick would have had something cooked up for him. So let's pencil into 2007 Patriots in the Final Four. And then last bracket, we have the 2019 Chiefs as the one team, which I think is the best Chiefs team that we've seen.

1:02:48It was still the high-flying offense, and then that was the first year of Spags and Tyron Matthew. They kind of got their two-high stuff going, their disguise stuff. It took a little while. Over the first half of the season, their defense was still pretty bad. But over the second half, they were a top-10 unit, and they carried that into the playoffs. I know they had a tough game against the 49ers and needed a miraculous comeback there. But that was the best Chiefs team of the Patrick Mahomes era so far. I'm looking down the list in which teams would really challenge them. And that 2004 Patriots team, man, I was looking back at that era.

1:03:20They went like 30-2 over like a two-season span and won the Super Bowl twice. That was maybe perhaps the greatest stretch in NFL history. I mean, I remember the conversations at that time was exactly that, right? Like, I remember them holding up the newspaper on the field after they won the Super Bowl. I think Teddy Bruschi is talking about like, this is the greatest run any NFL team has ever had. And that's how it felt. I mean, basically between 2001 and 2007, it felt like a miracle if you beat the Patriots. And this was, like you said, kind of at that nexus where the defensive identity that Bill Belichick originally had with this team had met, was starting to meet Tom Brady as he was swinging into his prime.

1:04:03And that was a big reason why they, I mean, you just couldn't do anything with them, especially in a playoff context. The Colts were good that year, had no shot against the Patriots. I mean, the rules get changed, right, after that. Because of how badly they got beat down. You know, the Pittsburgh Steelers, we talked about that team that was a championship-level team the year after, could do nothing with prime Tom Brady. And then you get to the Eagles game, and that's maybe my favorite example of close score, not close game. Philadelphia hung by scoreboard. You go back and watch that game. I mean, after the first quarter, it was pretty clear there was one team hanging on for dear life and another team that clearly knew they were about to win a championship.

1:04:44So do you think they beat the 2019 Chiefs? I think they would. I think they would. I think they're probably your best bet in this bracket. I would say sneakily, the 06 Colts against the 2019 Chiefs would be a really fun matchup, hypothetical matchup to put on the field. because just like we talked about with the 0-4 Patriots, we're talking about a team with a quarterback in his prime and a defense that has finally figured itself out. You have those pair of pass rushers with Dwight Freeney, younger Robert Matthews. You have Bob Sanders, healthy in his prime. You have prime Marvin Harrison. Like they had checked every box basically.

1:05:19And that was a team that was kind of teaming at Super Bowl contention over the last three years and had finally kind of had, you know, the alchemy they needed to be able to go get over the hump. I think they could give 2019 a shot. I think those would be my two picks that could play with them. Ultimately, I think 0-4 Patriots probably has the best shot. And I actually think I might pick that team over the 2019 Chiefs, if I'm being honest. Yeah, I'm definitely taking them. I think that's one of the greatest teams of all time. And I think it's a culmination of those two years. 2003, that team beat the Panthers.

1:05:48I will never forgive John Casey for kicking the last field goal out of bounds, giving Tom Brady in short field. They didn't need a last-second field goal without him in Terry in the Eagles game. Like you said, it wasn't as close as the score implies. But all right, let's go to our final four, and then we can get out of here. 2007 Patriots versus 2004 Patriots is a heavyweight match. And I'm not sure who I would take. I think that 2007 Patriots team, we know about the offense.

1:06:11Steven Ruiz:But with a Bill Belichick game playing against that offense, you look at the roster, Wes Welker was a very, very good slot receiver. He wasn't known as a superstar back then. Randy Moss is very much a superstar, one of the greatest receivers of all time. I have no need to, you know, reconcile that. But, like, the rest of the team, the offensive line was pretty good. Benjamin Watson was there. Lawrence Maroney was there. Dante Stallworth was the number two receiver. Like, I think this 2004 Patriots team could give them a run for their money. And the Patriots' defense had gotten pretty old by 2007 and kind of needed to be transitioned out of that.

1:06:43Steven Ruiz:So, I'm not sure the 2004 Patriots don't pull the upset here. I would pick the 2004 Patriots straight up. Like, that was just a better roster. I think that 07 was a more impressive year for Tom Brady. But like you said, you go back and you actually look at that 2D, it's honestly not as impressive as you think it is. It's a lot of Bill Belichick being a lights-out play caller and Tom Brady having a number one receiver, right? Like, that was kind of what powered this whole thing. And no team, like, they were the first team to go, hey, how about we get into the gun and put three receivers on the field?

1:07:15Steven Ruiz:Let's make Ray Lewis defend a stick route by Wes Welker. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I think Bill Belichick would have had better answers for that. Like, yeah, the 0-4 Patriots don't have an impressive wide receiver core, but I think if you go back and look at just how capable Deion Branch and David Givens were, you think about, you know, you mentioned a young Benjamin Watson with the 0-7 team, but outside of that, there's really not a whole lot besides he and Moss. You have Corey Dillon for the 0-4 team. You have a good offensive line for New England. That's still when they have young guys that are moving bodies.

1:07:47They were able to control the line of scrimmage. And then on the other side, like that's a who's who of Patriot of prime Belichick defense. Willie McGinnis is still there. You have Richard Seymour still at the peak of his powers. You still have Teddy Bruschi playing at a high level. You've got Ty Laws still playing at a high level. It would be hard for me to imagine that 0-4 Patriots team losing almost anybody in this bracket. Like that's one of those teams. It might not be my favorite, but if you're telling me, if you're asking me to be honest about who can beat anybody in this 32-team bracket, the Oakport Patriots is probably the best bet for that.

1:08:22Steven Ruiz:Also, are we playing with the 2004 rules? Because if we are, pre-definite illegal contest, they're locking down. Because the only reason that Patriots team kind of popped up in that offense was because you couldn't really press, you couldn't beat receivers up like you used to be able to, and that kind of introduced the past happy era, which was spearheaded by that 2007 Patriots team. All right, on the other side of the bracket, we have 2002 Bucks. 2002 bucks versus the 2013 Seahawks we just talked about the connection between those I'm taking the Seahawks I'm taking the Seahawks with Russell Wilson I don't think Russell Wilson was the star but he was much better than Brad Johnson Marshawn Lynch they had an underrated receiving core I don't think the offensive line was that great but the same was true in uh Tampa Bay and then I'm taking the the more modern defense it's a similar approach but you have aliens on the you have Earl Thomas you have Cam Chancellor maybe one of the greatest performances we've ever seen by safety ever in that Super Bowl.

1:09:15Go back and watch that film. It's insane. The two linebackers, K.J. Wright and Bobby Wagner. Richard Sherman at his best. Byron Maxwell was still a pretty good player in that system. The pass rush, Michael Bennett was insane because play inside, could play outside. Averill was insane. God, that team was so good. I don't see how the 2002 Bucs hang with them, to be honest. The offense to me is the differentiating factor. I I said this in the blurb I did on them, like you could line that defense playing the way they played then right now up against the modern offense. And I think I'd feel good about my chances.

1:09:54Like, I think they can run the Tampa two against any and everything that the modern at a modern office can throw at them in this era. I think that, like you said, the differentiating factor is that Russell Wilson at that stage, how athletic he was, something that I think people are starting to forget as he's gotten older is how athletic and how strong of an arm he had when he was younger and in his prime. And I think having Marshawn Lynch is a huge differentiating factor as well. That to me as a team, they can kind of beat you any way that you want to play. You think about the Packers game, they were able to air the ball out, right?

1:10:29You get that overtime win, if I remember, and right when they play in the playoffs, then you get that war against San Francisco in an NFC title game where they can just go punch for punch, you know, pound the ball three yards in a cloud of dust. If you put the ball in the air, we're going to hurt one of your receivers types of football. They can do that with the best of them. Like in that, in that decade, that's the gold standard is a 2013 Seahawks. And I think that they would beat out the O2 Bucs if they were to play head up.

1:10:56Steven Ruiz:Yeah. I love that Bucs defense very near and dear to my heart. Like, like you said, but you introduced the zone read to those like boxes and you have to do stuff. Yeah. Yeah, they don't have the tools to handle that. And I honestly would take the 2013 Seahawks over the 2004 Patriots. I think the 2013 Seahawks are the best team I've ever seen. That would be a hell of a game. Honestly, that's probably the best matchup we could have put together in this. Oh, where am I at with that? Would I pick the 13 Seahawks in a matchup? I think I'm still going 0-4 Patriots. I think I'm still going 0-4 Patriots.

1:11:34I don't hate it.

1:11:35Steven Ruiz:I don't hate it. I will say stylistically, that's a tough one to line up because teams weren't running offenses then the way they were by 2013. I mean, it's going to be real uncomfortable for Teddy Bruschi having to step out and play the zone read on Russell Wilson or have to go play tight ends, run an option route center-neath. You put Golden Tate or somebody like that at number three in the slot and he's running right up the middle of the field. I don't think that's going to be a very comfortable place for Brewski and this defense to be. But I think having Ty Law, having Willie McGinnis, having Richard Seymour to control the line of scrimmage, I'm going 0-4 Patriots.

1:12:14This is not me just working for the ringer and doing the New England thing. I was going to accuse you of that. I promise this is not ringer homerism. Everybody knows I am not a Patriots fan in that kind of way, but that 0-4 team had no holes on it. Not that their team, Seahawks team did, but that Oprah Patriots team is as close to a perfect run from beginning to end as you can have in the league. No, I think you're right. I do think you're right on the right track, at least. I'm taking the 2013, sticking with Seattle. It's still the best team I've ever seen, but you can't go wrong with either of those two teams.

1:12:46And really, you could throw the 2007 Patriots in the fold. I wouldn't go as far with the 2002 Bucks because the offensive limitations, but there have been a lot of great teams. And I feel like we're going to look back at some of these recent teams more fondly the further we get away from them. but yeah go vote on the ringer.com I think we're going to be doing it all week I think we're going to be down to the round of 16 by the time this airs but it should be a fun exercise that's going to do it for us this week thanks to Christopher Sutton for production thanks to Kiara Gibbons on socials thanks to Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramphal for additional production supervision we will see you later

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