Ranking and Reliving the Raiders’ Rebuilds

24:01And obviously like how much the league has changed and how much the passing room has changed things. Like those records don't mean anything anymore. But like he was breaking ground. Gannon was and Gruden was too. Youngest coach in the league, calling all the plays. Like breaking ground on this like West Coast style, offense where we don't need real deep speed to beat you. We're just going to cut you up with a thousand paper cuts with, you know, Jerry Rice, Tim Brown, Doug Jolly, the guy who would have no, remember the no gloves, Doug Jolly. Just every time he's catching the ball, you know exactly who it was.

24:26Yeah. That was a good team. That was a good team. Yeah. Well, I mean, not even only that, like, you know, John Gruden's of the, uh, the, the Holmgren tree, which is, I believe is the, uh, I mean, it's all Bill Walsh, right? Like the West Coast offense in general is just all, uh, Bill Walsh. And you could see just, um, just the, the way that that West Coast offense was played through perfection, right? You had the perfect West Coast offense type running back in Charlie Garner. You had Tim Brown running fucking cross routes, right? Like you have... Cross and sit. Like no one can play his own coverage against them because they just like saw it all out.

24:57And like Gannon was a perfectionist. Rudin was a perfectionist. My favorite thing was watching replays of Gannon during this stretch and watching the sidearm of him. And this is what I'm coming to be as a quarterback of my own, right? Like I played for the Oakland Dynamites. Let's go. Fucking right, yeah. But then my first year was 2001, right? And so the person, and I played quarterback for them, and Rich Gannon was the person that I idolized. This is how you be a quarterback, right? It's really cool to have a team that's really good with a quarterback that you can idolize, right? We don't have that anymore.

25:31And I remember just trying to throw sidearm passes like him. He would do this thing where he would throw like this, and then he would flick it like that, right? He would always flick it like that. Or he would like do this and like, but he was tall. He didn't have to, he did not have to do it. And I remember like a whole practice when I was with the dynamites. I remember we was at, um, we was at, uh, Ira Jenkins part. And I remember trying to be like Rich Gannon throw like this. And my coaches would have a fucking flip out, brother. Like, no, you throw like this, you throw like this. You do not throw like that.

26:01That is how it gets blocked. You are not Rich Gannon. That is a direct quote from coach. That's so funny. But, um, but like you would have the, it was a perfect offense for everybody involved, right and i can we just also talk about how unheard of it is for rich gannon to be doing something like this at his age especially the type of there's no comparison to rich gannon's career none there's not i was trying to find one like he joins the raiders i think at 33 or 34 years old right he had never been like he'd only been like a week one starter you're our guy once before and it was with like his second or third team by then and like it didn't really pan out and like you had to find an offense that would work for him but then it was this like rare crescendo moment where like gruden and gannon getting together i think it was second it was Like Gruden's second year, Gannon's first year, when like they really started to crescendo and like figure this thing out.

26:46And like just a former fourth round pick who the Patriots initially drafted to play running back, receiver, or defense back, literally anything but quarterback, ends up panning out as a quarterback, eventually becomes an MVP, goes to a Super Bowl, like leads a team in the Super Bowl. It doesn't make sense. He's of the Jim Pluckett, Darrell Monica. Ken Stabler. Ken Stabler. He's of that ilk, right? And a perfect Raiders quarterback. If you look down the line, If you look like staff or staff, Raiders have terrible quarterbacks. This is not our strong suit. It isn't, right? But the archetype is they're a quarterback away from just, they just need minimal quarterback play, right, to win a Super Bowl.

27:23Reference this by your hat that you're wearing right now and the win over the Vikings, right? Just minimal quarterback play. We'll do fine. The defense will bring us home. We have some offensive guys. Marcus Allen will get a crazy run and we'll be fine. We'll get the fuck up out of here, right? But Rich Gannon just kind of threw that archetype on his head because on paper, he is a late-stage type of Raider quarterback that you get, right? But we're not expecting him to fucking ball, right? We're not expecting him to be the MVP of the league. Like, Rich Gannon basically is Todd Marinovich, what Todd Marinovich was supposed to be.

27:57Like, he basically was that, right? That was the guy. But he's like that at 34. Four. His dad, Marinovich's dad, I'm pretty sure, is the one who's like rubbing HGH on him as a kid. He was the original LeVar Ball. Yes, yes. Look up some Marinovich stories if you can. This is probably going to go too long if we dive into Marinovich. I want to take a break and then I'll give you my five. We could spend all day on the Gannon Superboy era. I definitely think that's the peak of my lifetime. And I don't know how much longer it will be. I hope not that much longer. But when we get back, I'll give you my five.

28:26We're going to get a lot sadder, I think, moving forward. All right, number five on my list. You mentioned it was a brief moment after that Tennessee win and going into the Super Bowl. This was a brief moment as well. It is 2007 to 09. I call it the Jamarcus era. And I was in Mount Davis for Jamarcus Russell's first pass, week 13 against Denver. He was the number one overall pick. He was this guy that, you know, my dad always told me he could throw 40 yards sitting on his ass. And it felt like he was sitting on his ass the entire time he was with the Raiders because his work ethic was terrible.

29:00I was colleagues with Bruce Gretkowski, who was a quarterback, I'm sure you know, with the Raiders in like 09, 10, or 09 and 10. And he told me that to get Jamarcus Russell to watch film, and there's a lot of stories like this, like the blank DVD stuff, where they gave him a practice film DVD and said, watch it. Then he comes back today, he said, yeah, that looks good, but the DVD was blank. This time, Bruce told me that to get him to watch film, he and the other backup quarterback would have to go to his house and bring Wendy's, four double cheeseburgers and like four fries. And they'd get into his house and he'd be laying in this giant-ass bed.

29:29And there's always other people in his house. No one really knew who they were. There are other people there. This guy held out for a$60 million contract, held out through week one. He's a piece of shit for all the money. And then this year, they're trying to get him to watch film and they literally give him the burgers and go through the film with him just to get him to watch it. This is the kind of laziness that was there. And why I was excited, it was the first time that we'd invested in my lifetime a first-round pick in a quarterback. It was the first time we invested the number one overall pick in a quarterback.

29:55And all the ceilings that people talked about with this guy like rocket arm, 80 yards on his feet, just like legitimately like hose of an arm. And it's like big body quarterback that I thought was going to change things. After that first pass plays a little bit, you know, the rest of that season doesn't look that good. And even going into 09, because he plays, I think he gets his first official start the last year or last game of that 2007 season kind of looks like shit against San Diego. And then 09, they kind of give the keys to him. And it's just a complete disaster. One of the worst seasons in Raiders history gets into, or no, that's 08.

30:25And then 09 by then, like he's benched and Tom Cable benched him and they never really play him again. He's completely out. But you know, they say that you always love your first, you know, the Michael Bush, Darren McFadden, Zach Miller, Johnny Lee Higgins, Nnamdi Asamoah, Derek Burgess. Like we had guys and I thought Jamarcus was going to be able to unlock this piece and like legitimately sets the franchise back another 20 years. And, and they, they had not drafted a first round quarterback, you know, since until Fernando this year. and obviously the first overall pick as well. It has been 20 years since we've made that kind of investment.

30:59I do think Jamarcus is a big reason why the league or the team was set back as far as it was. Okay, so there's a lot of things to go with this. First off, I have compiled a list of quotes from people going into the draft about Jamarcus Russell. Oh, let's go. I can't remember being in such awe of a quarterback in my decade of attending Combines and Pro Days. ESPN's Todd McShay. John Elway-like. ESPN's Mel Kuyper. John Elway-like. It was very upsetting to watch Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, and all these guys beating over the head like they have flaws. Cleveland GM Phil Savage. Wow. So that was weird.

31:41And I just want to say, Jamarcus Russell at LSU was fucking awesome. Can we just acknowledge that, please? Can we just acknowledge that he was awesome in his junior year? He wins the Manning Award, wins MVP. of this Sugar Bowl against Brady Quinn, kicked this shit out of Notre Dame, right? It was just like, just an all-play, and this is also coming on the heels of what we saw in the early 2000s from a guy like Dante Culpepper, right? Like, we really love these big quarterbacks, right, who could be mobile, right, and black. And he comes into this, and it seemed like it was the perfect storm of bad team, bad fit as a player, right?

32:22Because - you can pile on Jamarcus Russell all day. And I am going to, at some points in this segment, but we do have to acknowledge the team that he was going into, right? This wasn't like it was a team that was organizationally sound. You know what I mean? That could get a quarterback to read the playbook. And there was just so much going on, right? Lane Kiffin didn't even want him. It was so funny because I sent you the video of the time when Jamarcus Russell got drafted. I sent you a video on Slack. And it's such an emotional rollercoaster because up until that, up until the time Jamarcus Russell's name gets called, I didn't even realize this.

33:08I just thought like my memory back in the day just was like, oh, Jamarcus Russell was the consistent number one pick. Like he just was, right? Yeah. Even over Calvin Johnson, that's how good of a season that he had and the Raiders he did quarterback. But if you look at that video of Jamarcus getting traded or getting drafted, excuse me, it's up until the last minute, the Raiders are thinking about trading the pick, trading down to get Brady Quinn. They're also thinking about, OK, maybe we should get Calvin Johnson. There's just so much going on. They took like five minutes to figure out a decision.

33:39And then Al Dave was like, no, we're picking Jamarcus Russell. Yeah. Because I said so. and he goes into that organization that is like just from the stone ages like the raiders from all like throughout my existence have been in the stone age but like to give you guys some perspective of how much the stone age the raiders were in they would up until like 2011 up until uh al davis's death i believe they were they the way that they got their checks were they would go to the oakland hilton and pick up paper checks wait i didn't know that i did not know that yes so they this is the organization he's going into right like receivers were bad, line was bad receivers were bad but even as a team they cut corners on salary, they cut corners on everything right they don't have a coach put in place we were gritty though, we were gritty like Mount Davis and the Oakland Coliseum, or then it was like probably McAfee by then like McAfee Coliseum, it was like we know this is the worst stadium, we know we have a baseball field, we're fine we're fine guy who clearly like, you know, how it looks at what we know now had a substance abuse problem.

34:46Right. And then like you bring him into this, you don't give him any guidance, right. You don't give him anything to, um, you know, lay his hat on. He sees just the dysfunction. It's not like you don't bring a guy like that into an organization like that. There was a, it was, it was an interview that, um, this brings it back to Jamarcus Russell kind of just seeing where his mind was at the time I was watching him on the pivot podcast, um, that he had really good interview. you guys should go check it out but one of the things that he said was like I went into um you know this building and I quickly realized that like shoot if you put Tom Brady or um or Peyton Manning in this building it wouldn't turn things around and I'm like you're the quarterback it's literally your job one Peyton Manning and Tom Brady would turn this thing around and it's literally your job to do so right so like he just clearly didn't understand the weight of what being a quarterback on a professional level is right because at that time especially then in college you're in a more structured environment um and you know everything is kind of put in your hands and you know when you're in the professional ranks you're pretty much doing have all that time to yourself and the raiders of all places are not going to put a program in place to help you be good so this is terrible all the way around no it was a bad i mean al had like it was in the last you know few you know few years of his life and still had like kind of complete ownership of of the decisions that were being made, Lane Kiffin, who he hired, you know, kind of, I think, I think thinking about Gruden at the moment, he was the youngest coach in the NFL, youngest coach ever hired when Lane Kiffin was hired for that 2007 season.

36:15He was only 31 years old. Lane Kiffin had never been a head coach at any level ever before. And now he's the head coach of the Oakland Raiders with the number one overall pick with a quarterback, like you said, like we find out later has substance problems, substance abuse problems, but then also has like an overall like work ethic problem that like he has to navigate. And, you know, Lane Kiffin's not even the only, you know, the leader on this team. He's barely 31, 32 years old. Like, I feel like it was going to be very difficult for Lane to handle the situation. Like Warren Sapp was on the team.

36:41And he didn't want him. And he didn't, and he wanted Megatron. Like Lane Kiffin has said that he wanted Calvin Johnson. Which is also like, I did. It does make sense in hindsight, but also bro, who's going to throw to Calvin Johnson? Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, we had Charlie Fry, Kyle Bowler, Andrew Walter, Bruce Crockett. It was like a really bad stretch of quarterbacks. And like what ends up happening with Lane. So he has that 07 season where Jamarcus doesn't even start playing until week 13. like dog shit. Team looks like that. Look bad. Four games into next season. Remember, this guy has never been a head coach ever.

37:10Four games into 2008. Fire. They fire Lane Kiffin. He's not... Barely even scratching the surface on getting experience. They fire him. They move on to Tom Cable, who's kind of fucking awesome. He like punches a guy in 2009, which is great. He's one of my moments coming up. We'll get to him later. We'll get into... We'll talk Tom Cable. But like in 09, Cable gives him the keys because Al's like, you got to start this guy. He plays like shit. And then 08, they end up... Or in 08, he plays like shit. And in 09, they end up benching him. And when you go back and look at, I pulled this data, Jamarcus Russell, among all quarterbacks with at least 700 dropbacks in their career since the year 2000, it's 153 total.

37:45He has the worst EPA per dropback and success rate and completion rate. No quarterback in the last 26 years has ever done worse with 700 dropbacks than Jamarcus Russell has. He was literally the worst. Zach Wilson's the only one who's even coming close. And you're right in that it was a handful of errors. So it's like a comedy of errors that kind of led to this situation. But I do think that, you know, I was watching some old regular season games from 2008, 2009, and the broadcasters are like, this Raider team boos when Jamarcus Russell comes in, or this Raiders fans boo when he comes in. Like we were done with him early in 2008.

38:18Like he barely got a year and a half before Raiders fans were upset with just all the stuff that we were hearing about his work ethic and him not getting better and him just looking like kind of just a piece of shit. And then they fire lane and we're trying to move on. Like that whole, that whole Jamarcus run was like, it was the second that we drafted him. I'm like, oh my God, we're turning the corner. And then the following year, draft Aaron McFadden, who's awesome. Then we draft Aaron Bay. We're trying to throw the resources at it. It just never panned out. All right, we got to stop talking to Marcus Russell though.

38:41You got to give me your number four, four on the list. I'm just, I think I want to just bring some happiness right here, right? I don't want to do it. Let me do it. I'm sorry, I brought this down. I brought this down. It's fine. I'm going to go with the 2010 season where the Raiders go, I believe, 7-9. That's number three on my list. That's number three on my list. Yeah, they go 7-9. They sweep the division. Tom Cable's the coach of the team. I was at the Chiefs game. They played the Chiefs midseason. It was a weird, grainy game that they had. And that was a Jacoby Ford game. Where he had a call turn.

39:11So sick. The Jacoby Ford game. Just YouTube the Jacoby Ford game. It's in the rain. I was in the black hole for the Jacoby Ford game. I was in the black hole. Me and my homie snuck down to go walk down for that game. And it was incredible. There was a fight that happened. it was amazing but that game was great the Raiders swept the division every victory came against a rival they even beat the Seahawks who was basically a division rival for a long time they actually went 8-8 that team was coached by Tom Cable offensive coordinator was Hugh Jackson who I'm sure we will talk about for a minute but they beat the Chargers twice, they beat the Chiefs twice, they beat the Brakes off the Broncos.

39:58Darren McFadden was a man. It was just so, my God. It was the best kind of season. I really, truly believe this. The second best season that you can have as a fan of a team, behind, obviously, the championship winning team, is the first season where your team just shows some spark, right? Where they go 8-8. There's no expectations, but they defy even the ones that they do have. It was great. Jason Campbell was my quarterback. Why not, right? Why the fuck not?

40:32Jacoby Ford was my wideout. It was great. It was great. There were vibes. There were no expectations. It was a fun one. The thing, though, about the Raiders, though, is you have to only take them in seasons because they are going... Just take it for what it is throughout the season because it's not a promise of anything to come, is all I would say. But the 2010 team was my moment where I felt a lot of optimism. It's an unimpeachable year. There's nothing you can tell me. It's like, it's similar to 2015. It's great. I look back on it promptly. I have it on, I have a number three on my list. Skipping number four.

41:04Number three, I call it the cable guy and Jason Campbell, not Hugh Jackson. I have it stretching out from 2010 to 2011. The 11 being that first six games with Jason Campbell before he breaks his collarbone in week six up 14-7 against the Browns. This is within days after Al Davis has died. Al Davis, one of the last things that he did was he, you know, did not renew the contract with Tom Cable from 2010, that cool eight and eight season, Michael Bush and Derek Fadden are like the sick ass combo. And we're finally figuring out a quarterback like Jason Campbell, I think it was 29 years old in 2009.

41:36Like we brought him in and like, weren't expecting much, but like you could tell he was just a Raider. Like right away, he felt like a Raider and, and just like his greenness and that had better scramble ability than Jamarcus Russell ever had. Like you started to just see a little bit more mobility, better decision-making, like it was all this no interception stuff. 2011 starts, Jason Campbell goes four and two to start that season. like Raiders looking good. Tom Cable's gone, but Hugh Jackson's the coach. He breaks his collarbone within days after Al Davis dying and Hugh Jackson, this is in my dishonorable mention, Hugh Jackson like grabs hold of the franchise.

42:08He's basically Doc Rivers. He's basically Doc Rivers in 2014 with the Clippers. He's like the GM owner. Like Hugh Jackson's one of like losing his head coaches of all time. Like he has this run with the Browns that's on hard knocks. That's like deplorable. Like makes him look, I don't think he ever got a job after that. Like how bad he looked. And Hugh Jackson takes the reins of this team and says, we're trading two first round picks or a first and a second round pick that would have became another first if they made the AFC Championship. Hilarious. But they trade a first and a second for Carson Palmer halfway through the season.

42:37This trade that like kind of comes through, like I said, within days after Al Davis dying. And like, he legitimately tries to turn the franchise over like overnight. And Carson Palmer doesn't really fan out. Doesn't look anything like what we have. He had a couple of good games. Moments. Moments. But even when you look at from 2011 to 2012, that stretch where Carson Palmer's playing, he's very dead on with what Campbell, the production he was giving us from an efficiency perspective before then. It just felt like we took two steps backward. Right? After Tom Cable stopped. Austin, can I be real though?

43:08I kind of liked it when it happened. I wasn't mad at what happened. I kind of fucked when it happened. I was not pissed. I was like, let's keep it going. Let's keep it. It was just pure hubris. And honestly, even with the benefit of hindsight, and it's even stupid that they did it. And for all the reasons that you say it does, I looked at a 45-minute highlight take from that year. I got a jolt. I got a fucking jolt. No, from the team in general. I just got a jolt. Oh, I see. Oh, this was great. I wanted to just compare the trade, that first and second round pick for Carson. It reminds me so much.

43:41And it reminded me at the time when we traded a first and Napoleon Harris for Randy Moss. And you bring Randy Moss over and he plays like fine. I mean, people are like, oh my God, he was terrible. He had a thousand yards in his first year. He clearly didn't want to be there. Who was his quarterback, bro? It's all bad, right? But we brought Randy Moss in. He clearly didn't want to be there. He was fine. Then we traded him for scraps. And he ends up having this record season with the Patriots. And then with Carson Palmer, we traded a first and second round pick for him in 2011. And we traded him for a sixth and seventh round pick swap two years later.

44:12It's like, what the fuck are we doing? They were so short-sighted immediately after Al died. It took Reggie McKenzie years to get back on track. Years. Yep. That's the GM who originally drafted Derek Carr and Khalil Mack. And that's like this new reset that we'll probably get to eventually. But Reggie McKenzie, one of the worst things that he did, he's like, the cap situation is terrible. Remember when they signed, who was it? Jalen Walker? Or was it Jalen Walker? Or no, I'm missing it. Like the receiver over from the Broncos who was, it started with a J, but he was Javon Walker. Javon Walker was an absolute dumpster fire for Aiden signing.

44:43Like it just started to turn into all that. But yeah, man. Yeah, the fun anecdote that I do have from that season, though, was my cousin actually played for that Raiders team. The 2010-2011 team. Jerome Boyd. Wow, okay. He played for that team, and I remember him. I remember I was still holding on to the football dream, and I remember asking him because they played against the Green Bay Packers that year. And I was like, yo, what's it like going up against Aaron Rodgers? Jerome was a strong safety for the team. And I'm like, what's it like going against Aaron Rodgers? And he was like, yeah, man, he's so smart.

45:23I remember I went in for a blitz, like, just to, like, act like I was about to blitz. And Aaron Rodgers is, like, doing his little calls and being like, 30's not doing shit. Because Jerome was at the line. He was like, 30's not going to do shit. Don't even worry about him. And then he just threw a bomb. And that was a game. I think the Packers blew out the Raiders. But that was a fun story because it was really cool that my cousin was on my favorite team. That was really dope. Yeah, that's safe. Yeah, I don't think I ever had a close friend play for the Raiders. I would have been a big fan. I remember...

45:55Yeah, I think... I don't remember Boyd, though. I would have to go back and grind the tape. I want to get to my number four, and I want to move quickly because this should have never happened. But I was drunkenly optimistic when Pete Carroll and Geno Smith was happening last year. We both were. No, we both were. I remember being hammered at my bachelor party. I got married last year. We made the trade for Geno Smith. It was a third-round pick. And I was like, dude, we were coming off the whole Daniels, Antonio Pierce stuff that was tragic. I felt like we were getting an adult in the room. We're bringing in Geno.

46:28I was excited by the Chip Kelly thing at the time, not really thinking about them never having worked together and maybe that being a problem. I also was not thinking enough about Pete Carroll's age or any of that. But I got caught sipping the Kool-Aid, thinking you know brock bowers michael mayor hey you know genti like i was like you know what like maybe this will work like maybe this is you weren't wrong though but you weren't wrong though this this is real you were not wrong i was right there with you we were in the slack together where we were just like oh it was it was a summer of just like fuck it right like yeah p carroll's the coach fuck it right um chip kelly i said this is verbatim i wouldn't want him to be my head coach but like offensive coordinator that sounds cool fuck it right let's just do it let's go ahead and then I feel like me and you almost both got fired for how excited we were after the first game against the pass.

47:14We were really, really too excited. We were talking a lot of shit in those ringer flags and I thought I was going to get fired. I'm not going to lie. I thought it was over with. I almost texted Bill. I think I shot a text to Bill and was like, hey, better luck or some bullshit. I don't know what I said. I didn't text him, but I almost did. If I did, it would have been like the unsin because it was that way. Well, when Geno threw that fucking pass, towards the end to seal that game against the Patriots. I was all in. I tweeted and then deleted. Like the rain on the road in week one. No, I tweeted and then deleted.

47:45I said, this was what Jamarcus Russell was supposed to be. And I did the video of that and then I just said, you know what? This is only week one and I deleted it. And I was done with Twitter after that. They beat the team that ends up going to the Super Bowl and the Patriots. And I remember after that game feeling like this is legit. Gino threw for 300 plus yards. Brock looks good. Mayer looks good. Looks like we can run the ball. Like defense, we're still figuring out. Jintzy is a boy. Jintzy is good. Yes, yes. And then I feel like Bowers gets hurt in that game. You're starting to feel it. You're starting to see Colton Miller goes down the left tackle.

48:16I think it was injuries that stacked up. Mayer got hurt. I think concussions or something. And then, you know, it all started to kind of like collapse in when the mistakes start to kind of add up. And then you find out Pete's sons. Then you're like, damn, Chip Kelly is my offensive coordinator. Damn. Yes, yes. Oh, then the reports were like Chip Kelly's like calling plays that they didn't practice in the week prior. The offensive line for the Raiders was meeting without the offensive line coach, Pete's son, because they felt like they couldn't get better with him. That's how bad things were when you start to see the reports coming out.

48:44The whole Pete, Chip, his son's Gino experience really fell flat on his face. None of these guys knew how to work together to solve these problems. And even the guys, even working on their own, they did not have the chops to really iron out. Well, we're going to be a lot of problems with the roster and all that stuff overall. I feel like we were right, like you said, going to be hyped going in. but the wheels fell off quickly and the reasons for them falling off are kind of pretty clear. Pete doesn't have it anymore. The Seattle Seahawks don't win the Super Bowl last year with Mike McDonald if they stayed committed.

49:12And a lot of teams would have done this, stayed committed to Pete before he was willing to retire. They gave him this whole golden parachute senior advisor bullshit and then he tries to come back coaching next year and he clearly doesn't have it. Well, it was like the right away, man. We like to get a lot of people that are washed and passed the prime, right? It worked in the early 2000s. And then we've just been trying to do that formula ever since. do you want Art Shell? Fuck it. Let's do it. Right? Let's give him. He hasn't coached in 20 years. Let's have him coach Randy Moss. Right? Let's have him coach Warren Sapp.

49:40I'm just sad right now. God, Warren Sapp. Good Raider. So he had a good year. They were, they had a number, he led a number two defense, but you know, Art Shell was coaching and we were two and 14. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's take another break and then we'll get to our top three. You already know my three with the cable guy and Jason Campbell, but you don't know my top two. We'll get to your top three. Let's take a break real quick. All right. It's time for number three. I want to know where you're going. I'm ready to relive these moments. I have like... I hope it's not the one I have saved for one.

50:08I'm really excited to relive those moments with you, but let's hear your three. The 2015 Raiders. Okay. Which is the season... Like I said previously, I love the season before the season, and this was absolutely the season before the season. The Raiders go seven and nine, laying the foundation for what will be their 12 and four postseason run in 2016. team, but this is when the babies kind of come into form, right? This is when Reggie McKenzie's draft picks finally blossom, right? You got Derek Hart, quarterback, just slinging the ball. He's not scared in the pocket. This is the year where, the comeback year where he's just like slinging it to Amari Cooper.

50:45This is when Latavius Murray is like, is he McFadden 2.0? I don't know, but he's really good. I like it. I like it. Khalil Mack, who's like, is beginning a career where he's one of the defining edge wrestlers of a generation. right um and they were just like really fun things man like that last second uh fade in baltimore right you had michael crabtree who was just just amazing right also another another uh pickup where you think the guy's washed and he goes to the raiders and he becomes something right yes yes and they beat the broncos in denver where khalil mac had five sacks right like he it's like we're building something we're not just getting lost stars off the scrap heap right we're not getting disgruntled scars without a plan.

51:27We have something, right? Woodson's on the team. Yeah, he comes back. Holding up the O, it was so sick when he was in those games where he's just holding up the O, the black hole, and you're like, dude, I love Woodson so much. Woodson is one of my favorite Raiders. He is my favorite Raider. He's my favorite Raider. We should not let him go. He did end his career in silver and black, but he should have never left. So 2015 Raiders are my team. It's also you're one of Del Rio, right? I think a commonality that I've hit on a bunch when I've written about the Raiders for the Ringer or just talked about it is how many coaches they've hired and fired really since that 2000 run.

52:07Starting with trading John Gruden and promoting the offensive coordinator, Bill Callahan, who didn't even want to call plays. He ended up having Mark Trestman call plays for that Super Bowl run. Since then, they've had 14 different head coaches. No other team has had more than 11. That's the Cleveland Browns. and the average for every NFL team since then is seven. They've had double the average. And so much of it is this snip-snap and the theme for this list. It's just a constant restart. Pete Carroll and Geno Smith and Chip Kelly. Let's get it going. Uh-oh, 2010, here comes Tom Cable and Jason Campbell and Darren McFadden and Michael Bush and Hayward Bay.

52:45And then it resets again. And then they fire Cable and bring in Hugh Jackson. And then they fire Josh McDaniels and bring in Pierce. And then they fire Dennis Allen and bring in the next guy. They just have cycled through so many coaches. And Del Rio, in 2015, you started to feel it. And we'll get to my list when we start talking about 2016. But Del Rio, you could really feel... Again, this is easy to say to you, but hard to say to the listeners. He felt like a raider right away. It's like, oh man, this guy is gritty. He's tough. He wants to beat people up. He's going to go for two to win a game and then season opener on a fucking road.

53:19That 2016... We're going to get to 2016. We got to save for 2016. I'm going to jump to my number two. And this might be like giving things away, but I think we have to talk about this before we get to 2016. Number two is right freaking now, dude. Tom Brady, Fernando Mendoza, Clint Kubiak. I think that a lot of the things that I want with a... This is the first round pick at quarterback the Raiders have made since Jamarcus Russell. It's the first number one overall pick they've obviously made at quarterback since Jamarcus. I think Fernando Mendoza is nowhere near the arm talent and ceiling that people thought Jamarcus Russell was coming out.

53:56But the floor might be 10 stories higher with the work ethic and all this character stuff that we're really excited about. And I think you mentioned this calamity of errors when Jamarcus came in with Lane Kiffin, the youngest coach ever hired, never been a head coach before, was not going to give that long of a leash, literally lasted a season in four games. To Kubiak, who you could argue in this coaching cycle where there were 10 openings, he was maybe the most attractive option. Obviously, there was Stefanski and some others, but Kubiak just led his team in the Super Bowl, led Sam Darnold to the Super Bowl, and I think understands this under center play action, use a fullback, use tight ends game that the offense is going.

54:32He, if all things go well, will be the offensive play caller and head coach for Fernando for the next five years plus, right? And then you add on top of that, this I think is the first team that Tom Brady's name is sharpied all over it. And like it or not, And telling my dad that Brady owns a certain percentage of the team now, I think he would fucking kill me if he knew that. But I think that Brady, having his name all over this team and this coach and quarterback combination, and them going in being like, this is what has to work. We have to figure this out with this trio. And I think it's the best bet on a trio that they've made in a while.

55:06I do think that I'm more hyped than I was over Pete and Geno last year. And this is maybe not as exciting, obviously, as my number one on my list. but I feel really excited to root for number one overall pick again. And it kind of throw my whole head at like, okay, we're rebuilding around this group and this is what we have to build up. Cause it feels like we don't have to, if things go right, we start again in two or three years, we should be able to build something up over the next four to six, six to 10, something that we felt like we maybe were doing with Derek Carr, but we know all the things that happened with that.

55:35And like him never really reaching up to that. And he wasn't obviously a first round pick. He wasn't this investment that we have. So right or wrong, I am excited about this Raiders team. I'm excited about Fernando. I'm excited about Coops and Brady's name on it. Like, I just think he needs, you know, we need to know if he has it. Right. And like going in on this coach and quarterback, like I think I'm happy he's getting a shot because right away, he owns the team. And if he's going to be involved in these decisions moving forward, he needs to have one on the record. It's really hard for you to root for Tom Brady.

56:01I hate it. I fucking hate it, man. It's very hard to root for Tom. John Gruden's last game coaching the Raiders before Gruden part two, which we don't necessarily have to discuss, um, was the tuck roll game. And, I think it really changed him. I think it changed his life. It legitimately changed his life. They lose in the AFC Championship game in a game they should have won. Some bullshit tuck roll thing. Can he give us the Super Bowl that he owes us? That's all I want. The Super Bowl that he owes us. I could talk more into the roster too. I feel like the roster is better than people think. They added Linderbaum.

56:33They paid big for two free agent linebackers that have played together before. If this team is healthy, Colt Miller, Brock Bowers, Linderbaum, Max Crosby, Gentey, I think there is enough talent with this new quarterback, with this new coach, and how they want to bring him in with Kirk. I feel like there is momentum to the Raiders finally having a foundation to build on. Something close to maybe what they thought they had in 2014-2015 when they all started to come together with Cleo Mack, Amari Cooper, Derek Hart. It's like, okay, we are building the foundation up again. I just want six wins. It's all I need.

57:02Six wins, baby. Six wins. When do you want Fernando to play? Ideally. Because obviously there's a lot of speculation on like, he should start week one. And they're like, we're not starting week one. We're going to start Kirk Cousins out of the gate. I don't think they... Maybe next season. Or maybe late this season. But I'm cool with next season. Let me throw something at you. Let me throw something at you. He starts after the bye. I think our bye is like week 12, week 13 this year. There's five games after the bye. I'll read you the games. He gets to... We host the Chargers. We host the Broncos.

57:32Remember, this is after the bye. We host the Chargers, host the Broncos, host the Titans. Three straight home games for him to start. Two against division rivals. Then we go on the road against Arizona. And we go on the road to finish the year against the Chiefs. He gets all three division rivals, two at home, one on the road against the Chiefs in Arrowhead, and then he gets two. Hey, we own the Chiefs in Arrowhead. Exactly. We own the Chiefs in Arrowhead. So you get five games, two against shitty non-division opponents, Titans and Cardinals. You get three straight home games out of the bye. And then you get all three division rivals, a taste of the rivalry going into year two.

58:05Unless Kirk has us competing for a playoff spot, I'm completely fine with that being the plan going in. The plan going in is like, hey... I will say this, though. You can talk me into this. If Kirk Cousins can get you a good month and a half, and then he kind of waddles, and it's time to put in Fernando, you can get six wins out of that. That's fine. I'm not worried about wins next year. I'm worried about how many games Fernando plays. And I think Fernando, the most he should play is five. I think he should let Kirk run through the five. I'm just so scarred from Jamarca's roughly experience, man.

58:39I know he's not that. I know he's not that. I'm just, I got to wait and see. Last summer, I was really, I was very excited. You talked me into a lot of stuff. I was like really geek. I just got to see it happen, man. No, you're right. You know, I really also, by the way, I'm just going to ask for this before I get into my next moment. Tickets for Raiders Niners are through the roof. So if any ringer people or anybody out there listening want to let you know, how about you boy? Holland. In San Francisco? That would be sick. In Santa Clara. Yeah. Train ride. Yeah. Okay. We got to get this out of the way.

59:18I'm going to go to mine. This is number two. Yeah. This is number two. Okay. I'm going to go with the, because we got to get it out of the way. Let's do the tuck rule game, man. Let's go this season going into the tuck rule. We have to do it. We're going back. I love it. We have to do it. Where were you when it happened? Everybody knows who's listening to what happened. I was with my dad. I was with my dad watching it on TV. And I mean, he just legitimately was jumping up and down, screaming expletives. And I didn't understand what was happening. I did not understand how the call could get reversed.

59:54The call on the field was a fumble. It was a fumble. There was enough evidence. Still is a fumble. And it still is a fumble. there's enough evidence to not just support that it was not a fumble, but enough evidence to overturn the call on a field, to call it a pass when like clearly, and like this whole Tucker thing, like it's like, well, he doesn't have to be throwing a pass. If he tucks it with the intent, it's all bullshit. This is a fumble. Can I read the rule? Can I read the rule? Read the rule. Read the rule. NFL rule three, section 22 article two note two. When an offensive player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arms starts a forward pass.

1:00:30Even if the player loses possession of the ball, he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and loses possession, it is a fumble. This rule was abolished on March 20th, 2013 by a 29-1 vote. Just one of the dumbest rules to ever be in the book. And it's a nonsensical rule that if the quarterback is, even if he's still trying to tuck it, it counts as a pass. That is not... There's a reason it was false. It makes no sense at all. And you watch it 100 times over and every single time, it just makes zero sense. Do you think it's... I don't know if this has ever been...

1:01:10This has ever been axed, but do you think this is like karma for the holy roller? All the shit that happened for us in the 70s where we just got all the luck in the world kind of borderline illegal shit. The sea of hands against the dolphins, the holy roller, the ghost of the post. I mean, we were also like cheating a bunch in the 80s and 90s in the 70s and 80s, just like filling our cast. But everybody was. Everyone was. I don't know. I think it was just legitimately an awful... I've seen the interview of the ref who called and he's like, it's still an incomplete pass. It's just like an insanely abhorrent error by that ref.

1:01:44I don't even think Brady thought it was a pass. No one was advocating that it was. Hold on, hold on. So there is a clip that maybe we put in the scripture or whatever. There's a clip that I sent you. I don't know if it's a football life or something. It might be a football life on the tuck rule, and it's Brady and Charles Woodson discussing it. And Brady's basically just saying it was a fumble, right? He's basically just saying it, but I won a championship. It was perfect Patriots, just propaganda there, right? How did that video make you feel? Knowing that everybody knows it was a fumble, probably the ref does too, just doesn't want to admit it.

1:02:18But how does that make you feel after all these years? I got a stomach ache when I saw Brady trying to play fight Charles Woodson after. I think Brady's off-field behavior is cringy a lot of the time. And I think that it sucks that Gruden never got another chance. I obviously got Gruden Part 2 when he was hired back in 2018 or whatever. But that was the last game we saw that combination of Gruden, Gannon, that team that went to the Super Bowl the next year. That was the last time we saw Gruden a piece of it. The only time we saw Gruden again was in the Super Bowl when they beat the shit out of him.

1:02:55I feel like it was such a raw deal for Gruden to go out like that. And you read back on what was happening and why they traded Gruden for two first-round picks in that offseason. It was like contract negotiations stalled. And you know it was probably some big ego play between the youngest head coach in the NFL, some fiery guy that's changing offense for you, and Al Davis, who obviously is his way or the highway type of thing. And when they finally got that opportunity to maybe get two first-round picks. The Bucs were talking about firing Dungy and hiring Bill Barcells. But then those didn't end up going through, so they ended up making this big trade for Gruden.

1:03:28I just can't believe that Al, with everything that he's known, like hiring Flores, hiring Madden, why he felt trading Gruden when he did was going to actually make this team better. But then you go to that offseason, they spent so much money in free agency. They signed Rod Woodson. They signed John Perella. They signed Sam Adams. They signed Woonowski all on defense. And I think Al was like, fuck it. I'm just going to pay all this money to make the defense sick. And as long as Callahan, who was the OC, just kind of keep this offense afloat, we should be good. And he was kind of right. But every year after that, every year we've been battling to kind of recreate that Gruden-level leadership that we had in part one.

1:04:03It just hasn't happened. This is from the great Scott Osler. Okay. This is a column right before... I believe it was right after Gruden left. And he said this is the relationship. He speaks on the relationship between Al Davis and John Gruden, and he compares them to young Elvis and old Elvis. Old Elvis is Davis, the Raiders godfather. He's the NFL's rebel without a pause, creator of the Raider mystique. He still greases his hair on his back like grandpa rock and is deeply involved with the team and speaks in public as often as the real Elvis. Young Elvis is Gruden The first year rock star coach In big sports since Pat Riley Catwalked the sidelines for the Lakers And Knicks If someone put out a calendar of hunky coaches Gruden would be January Through June His player sees him as Sergeant Rock Buoyant in teeth leading them out of the trench And that's what was Going at each other right It was very much a battle of egos right Like Al Davis didn't want to pay him He pays players.

1:05:08That's the old school ownership state of mind. And he didn't want to pay Gruden. And Gruden was getting a little bit too much power, right? And that's basically was a power struggle. And then Gruden goes back however many years later and cashes in on that Davis money. Dude, he was, I mean, to go like only a few years into that 10-year, $100 million deal. I'm so happy, by the way, that we haven't spent any breath on Mark Davis and his ownership since he's taken over for his dad. Let's not even do it. Because it's not even worth it. It's not even worth it. It's not even worth it. It's not even worth it.

1:05:39I'm going to go to my number one. Okay. It's not the 2015 Raiders. It's the 2016 Raiders. It's Blackjack Del Rio and Derek Carr before Christmas Eve 2016. I want to walk you through some of the games going in to that game. I'm having heart palpitations. We go for two in week one in New Orleans. We have not won at that time a week one game in like 10 plus years. We go for two to win it in regulation, and it's Derek Carter, the crab, and it is incredible. I was on cloud nine. I cannot believe we went for it to win, and we did in week one, like something we had not done in a long time. Then down the stretch, we have the Tampa Bay OT thriller, where it's still, I think, the record for the most penalties any team has ever gotten in a game that they've won.

1:06:26We won OT with Seth Roberts. We won a game when we had penalties, bro. That never happens. It never happens. At least in our lifetime. That happened in our parents' lifetime all the time. They would always win the game and the penalty battle. Yeah, yeah. In that stretch, they went 10 of their first 12 with Del Rio, including one, too, where Derek Carr has a really bad pinky injury against the Carolina Panthers. And it ends up coming back, and they win that game, calls the pinky game. They were on this run, right? Week one was crazy. The Tampa game was crazy. Panthers was crazy. And we're the league darlings.

1:06:58We're actually the league darlings. It's year three of Derek Carr. it's I think year three or no year two of Del Rio and you know Murray's going crazy the team is just awesome we had like arguably the best offensive line in the league right which I think is a commonality with the 2000, 2001, 2002 teams where they had like Barrett Robbins Barry Sims, Lincoln Kennedy like we were talking before on this 2016 line Kolechio Semel, Rodney Hudson Donald Penn all on the left side all pro bowlers Donald Penn had allowed zero sacks that season up until this point we're playing the Colts were up 33, I believe 33 to 7.

1:07:34Jalen Rashard, running back that we had, was going off. DeAndre Washington, our rookie running back, was going off. We were having our way with them. Carr's throwing to fucking Andre Holmes and Clive Wolford, and we're still dominating. Then the first sack and only sack, Donald Penn gives up all season against veteran Trent Cole, turns the corner, wraps up Derek Carr's leg in a funky way. Why we're throwing the ball? Mark Davis' question, giving him that second, but it was like second and 22. It made sense to throw it. breaks his leg. And, you know, the immediate off, you know, we go to the playoffs, we get blown out by Houston in the playoffs.

1:08:07It doesn't even fucking matter in the off season in June. We give Derek Carr, what was then the biggest contract in NFL history. And, you know, that's all she wrote, dude. Like that 2016 run, we went 12 and four that year. It was, it was, I think still the best chance we've had by a lot, the best chance we've had to go on another run, uh, since that old one season. And obviously it was just snapped just like that. with the broken leg. Derek Carr was never the same. The Raiders were never the same. Darío was never the same. And it kind of reset this cycle of rebuilding and rebuilding and rebuilding.

1:08:42That was 10 years ago, Logan. That was 10 years ago. And that sets the stage for John Gruden to just tear it down, which really just pissed me off. Even in the moment it pissed me off. But all of Reggie McKenzie's work just gets torn down for no other reason than John Gruden's finally in charge and he feels like he has to do stuff. let's trade Khalil Mack and get Vontaze Burfik. Why not, right? Let's get Rishi Cat incognito. Oh my God. Why are we doing this, bro? That's why Gruden part two for Raiders fans at the time, a lot of Raiders fans I knew, they were so excited when we got Gruden back, especially dad-aged Raiders fans.

1:09:21People were stoked. I was skeptical and then immediately made, hated it when we traded Khalil Mack. Even as a nerd and a PFF guy. All of the analytics were like, this is a great trade for the Raiders. They're getting a likes return. If they hit on these first-round picks, blah, blah, blah. In the same year that Gruden's first year back, he trades away Khalil Mack and then in the season, trades Amari Cooper. I remember feeling like, like I said, that 2016 season's gone. All that's gone. All of this that we built and had a chance for. It's the classic bad organization thing where you trade guys that you draft for just established guys.

1:09:54They basically flipped Amari Cooper for Antonio Brown and he didn't play it down for them. Yeah. I mean, all those first round picks were like Jonathan Abrams, safety sucked. You traded for Josh Jacobs, who they couldn't even get a second contract, was maybe a good pick, couldn't get a second contract to it. It was terrible. I want to take the John Gruden looks at. It doesn't do shit for him. You know, he's like the smart guy that has a lot of buzzwords that don't really mean anything. He's way past his prime when he comes to it. But he's emotional, right? And I think when you're drafting players, emotion actually can get you caught up, right?

1:10:27when the whole Cleland Furrell pick over Josh, it made no sense. The players that he was picking, I think he got over-emotional and over-invested in these guys that felt like were his guys. And that was the whole thing. He traded away Cleo Mack, traded away Mark Cooper for the opportunity with three new first-round picks to bring in his guys. And the guys that he brought in clearly weren't it. And then everything happens with the emails. They were guys of another era. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck him. I do love that 2016 season, man. That offensive line, dude. Kolechia Semeli, Rodney Hudson, Gabe Jackson, Donald Penn.

1:10:58We had a freaking line. Mike Musgrave at OC, the defense was playing lights out. We had dudes. I don't think we've ever been able to recreate anything close. I know they went to the playoffs again in 2021. That was another bullshit run where they barely sneaked in and couldn't beat the Bengals on the road. I still think that's the best chance that they've had. That last game of that 21 season was basically the Chargers lost it more than the Raiders won. Yeah, true. But it's cool. I'll take it. I'll take it. Versace, the man. All right, give me your one. We have to do this. Randy Moss. The trade for Randy Moss, man.

1:11:37We haven't talked about it. You referenced the trade. The Raiders sent Napoleon Harris the number seven overall pick that year and a seventh round draft pick. Who was sick? He was a thumper, great linebacker. We moved on from Greg Beaker, I think his name was, to have him in as a rookie. He was awesome. My thing is this, though. My thing is this, man. If you're going to trade for Randy Moss, you better damn well have your shit together. And in the moment, it was like, okay, we have Randy Moss. This is really cool that Randy Moss can get rid of Randy Moss' jersey, which I did, of course. 18. 18, baby.

1:12:13But this was doing from the start. I remember being optimistic for a little bit, and I was like, who's going to throw it to him? The Raiders aren't the place for him. you don't get disgruntled stars into an organization like this. Right. Um, and Randy Moss said all the right things in the presser. I appreciated it. But like, again, our team was not built organizationally to withstand a Randy Moss. And you can't get Randy Moss and then hire Archelle after 20 years of not coaching. And I believe the offensive coordinator of Tom was running, was running a bed and breakfast before he got back on there.

1:12:49And he brought him back too. and it's like, you should come to this too. Like the only time he's ever been off the screen. Jackie Slater was the offensive. Like, I was like, what, what year am I? Is this 1985? Like, what the hell, dude? That was tough. That was tough. What were your emotions about Randy Moss? I hated it at the time. I didn't, I didn't, I did not think it made sense for what we were trying to do. And I also didn't feel like we had the infrastructure to, to win with Moss. Like I, I, we didn't know who the quarterback was going to be. I felt bad for Randy. I really felt bad for Randy.

1:13:19Even when he was quitting on routes, I was like, I understand, man. I felt how I felt about Randy Moss is similar to how I felt about Devontae Adams in his last few years. Like, yo, just go free yourself, bro. And like, it sucks that he did that. But Devontae at least had that connection with Carr, right? But then immediately after, they released Carr in this weird way. Even how Derek Carr, who I'm not the biggest fan of, and I feel like there were highlights, but after 2016, there were not a lot to speak of. But how they ended the relationship with Derek Carr and how they traded for Adams and Adams was excited to go back to Fresno State connection.

1:13:51Gruden completely... Gruden part two was such a disaster, dude. It was so bad. So bad. And Art Shell part two was also a disaster. And the fact that he brought back that offensive coordinator who had not been calling plays or even coaching in the NFL was like 20 years. Are you sure? Are you sure? Oh, my God. I'm happy that you were buzzed, though. I did have a Randy Moss jersey as well, but we were putting duct tape over the back of that thing pretty quickly. I got to be honest. people hated Randy Moss in like 2009 or his last year there was like maybe and then he went to the Pats and they got pennies on the dollar for him.

1:14:24Oh no he wasn't there in 0-9 he was on the pass by 0-7 when they had that crazy ass run his last year was 0-6 so imagine the emotions that the Raiders fans have we go from the Randy Moss experience and go right into the Jamarters Russell experience. And in 2007 meanwhile the Patriots go 16-0 and for any dad age Raiders fan. The Patriots are like after the division rivals, like second behind the Niners, maybe even ahead of them in terms of like non-division rivals that you fucking hate. You hate Brady, you hate Belichick, you hate the freaking Patriots for the tuck roll and everything after that.

1:14:56So not only... I think Raiders fans hate them the most. Like more than regular NFL fans, I think Raiders fans hate them more than... Especially that run. Because we created it. Yeah. How much I was rooting against the Patriots in both those Giants Super Bowls was unrelenting. I would have been sick if I watched Brady get that ring and go 18-0 or 19-0 or whatever. I would have been livid. I could not have it. How did you feel, though, during Randy Moss's season debut against the Patriots when he had that awesome deep throw? I think it was Kerry Collins. That's right. Yeah, Kerry Collins. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:15:32I mean, he had moments, right? Randy had 1 ,000 yards his first season. He wasn't even excited about that, though. He was like, we're going to suck this year. He hated being there. He hated being there. Damn, it's so funny that number one's your freaking Randy Moss moment. 2016 doesn't make your list. What about 2016? You had said it. It was on my list. You had said it. This is our list. We're just going through moments. Some of the moments went together. It was fine. It was vibes. It's fine. My full list is day after the Super Bowl, five. Randy Moss trade, four. Jamarcus Russell trade, three.

1:16:04Draft pick. Draft pick, three. Two is a 2010 season. 2015 is the number one. The 2016 season was great, but like... Yeah. The playoffs sucked. Yeah, it was terrible. It was great until Christmas Eve. Literally Christmas Eve, Derek Carr breaks his leg and the entire season's over. You're contemplating life itself. I had never bought a Raiders jersey until that point. Only the ones that my dad gave me. And that Christmas, I got a Derek Carr jersey. I'm sorry. I was legitimately in hell from that moment on, thinking that Carr was this quarterback we were going to be able to... I mean, we were excited, man.

1:16:40Like he had not gotten the contract yet. He's only three years into his career. We're 12 and four. Del Rio, Musgrave, Crabtree, Cooper, Mack, the offensive line, like everything felt like it was coming together. And obviously, you know, it completely fell on its head. It was terrible. My five. Five, I had Jamarcus, the Jamarcus start. Four, I had last year with Pete and Gino right before, like pretty much like that week one pass was the peak of that. And then I had 2010, 2011 with Tom Cable and Jason Campbell. two is right now with Brady, Fernando, and Kubiak. I'm excited. I'm excited. I feel good.

1:17:13And then number one, Blackjack Del Rio 2016. It's still my number one. And it will be until, I mean, we win double-digit games again until we're going to a playoffs with our starting quarterback and feeling good about it. Like, I think it's going to be one for a while. We'll see what happens. My final question for you, though, is why the hell do we still keep doing this? Why do we do this? People ask me that all the time. Why are you still Raiders fans? When they moved to Vegas, we didn't even talk about the move to Vegas. When they moved to Vegas, I was like, I'm still going to support the team as long as they're the Raiders and they're silver and black.

1:17:44If they ever change the colors, I am gone. The jerseys matter so much to me. The silver and black specifically matter so much to me. And I love being a Raiders fan. But if they change the name or the colors, I bounce. At that point, you're just literally rooting. I'll never do that. I hope not. You're literally rooting for ownership at that point. You're like, oh, I hope Mark Davis is football team. I can't do that. The thing I'll say is I'm not... and I wanted to ask you this. I've been telling people this. I'm not ruling out Raiders coming back to Oakland. They've done it before. Don't. Listen, listen.

1:18:15They've done it before, right? They went to LA from like 1980, or it was like 80 to like the 90s or something. It was 81 to 95. There you go. 1981 to 1995. They came back, right? And then they left again, I think for Vegas in 20... When was it? 2018? No, no, 2020. Yeah, you're right. 2020. 2020, they go to Vegas. Vegas is a cheap thrill. We all know. And they're making a ton of money. Every time you look at Raiders, or all the teams and how much money they're making on tickets, the Raiders are always up there because the tickets are so fucking expensive and no one can actually go. I think eventually, and I don't think it's going to happen with Mark Davis as the owner, but as private equity comes in and maybe other people come in and this Vegas thing, and it's hard to create a home field environment, whatever, whatever.

1:19:00Could you find someone who wants to bring this team back to the Bay and bring Oakland back. Because I think if you did, they would be welcomed back in open arms. They would be welcomed back in open arms. This is not a Dean Spano's charter situation. Exactly. But I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it's going to happen. I still hold out hope. Because the mecca of sports right now and where you want to be is Vegas. Of the moment, this is just what it is, man. And this is honestly where they're going is just where sports is going. It's just some sanitized, made-for-TV thing. I'm not ruling it out.

1:19:30And I think even if it's 10 years from now, 20 years from now. I don't care when it happens. I think that there's always going to be this itch in the back of leadership, ownership's head of like, you know, especially if Vegas starts to come down. They're already seeing numbers about no one's going to Vegas anymore and blah, blah, blah. Like if things start to hit the fan, they can't sell out games and all the lure of Vegas is like no longer there. Dude, to come back to the Bay would be so freaking sick. I really, really am rooting for it. Maybe it's foolish optimism, but what is this entire list?

1:19:58I will say there's one of the greatest, the greatest place to have a stadium. is where the current Coliseum is, right? It's the perfect place. It has access to the airport. You know, the Raiders just didn't want to invest in our community. Terrible. If you know what I'm saying. But I don't know why I do this. I don't think that it's going to happen. I don't know. You know, I think it's a nostalgic thing for me. I always go back to my childhood. It was a great childhood. And like the connection to, you know, my parents being Raider fans, stuff like that. And also the excuse I give myself is that they were always a nomadic franchise.

1:20:39So why was I like the A's kind of hurt me even more like fuck. Definitely. But the Raiders really like embodied something in me that I can't just give up. The A's were easy to give up, but the Raiders, I can't quit them. Yeah. And that's where we're at right now. I'm sticking with the A's. I'm going to stick with the Raiders for as long as I can as well. Like I said, colors or whatever. I do think that part of the big reason is the nostalgia. The relationship I have with my dad is because of this team and because of having season tickets with him and being able to share this trauma and root for...

1:21:16I feel like a lot of this podcast is just naming names and I wanted to throw some more out, but Sebastian Janikowski, Shane Leckler, Chad Schillings, Jacoby Ford. Kirk Morrison, Thomas Howard, Derek Burgess, Jay Richardson, Tommy Kelly, Richard Seymour, Tardell Sands, like, like we, we, Nnamdi Asamoah, like we had, Nnamdi Asamoah, yes, one of my favorite Raiders ever, yes. And I felt like that all these times that I've had this optimism, it's always when I felt like we've got badasses again, we, we, we, the just win baby. And like, something that I think has been lost with, you know, the Al Davis to Mark Davis transition, but even just like in these decades of losing is another very big Raiders mantra is this commitment to excellence.

1:21:59And I think that the commitment and the work ethic and all that stuff, feeling it really come down in real time with Jamarcus Russell in a lot of the years after that, and then maybe be propped back up just to be snatched with the broken leg on Christmas Eve 10 years ago. It feels like this... You can't just say the Browns. The Browns, it's been terrible for a really long time. And we've just been a doormat in the league and maybe we've had bright spots, but never true like we feel like we're rebuilding moments and like some of this momentum going into the playoffs or whatever. The Raiders have had these like little sparks, these little seasons that have like reminded you of what it could be, but I've never turned the court.

1:22:34I can't believe the ringer let us do this pod. I can't believe either. Let's just say this. The NFL is a better place when the Raiders are winning. It's just a better time. It's a way better time. I hope the next time we do this is when the Raiders win the Super Bowl. We're in the Super Bowl. Let's fucking go. I really hope so too. Alright, big shout out to Logan. Thank you, Logan. Thank you, Arjuna. Thank you, Connor Nevins. Thank you, Christopher Sutton. And this has been the Raiders version of the Ringer NFL show. We'll catch you guys next time. The autumn wind is a Raider. Don't fucking forget that.

1:23:01Swashing the sea. It's so good. So good.

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