Ranking the Top 10 NFL Defenses for the 2026 Season!

21:58Because I think that while they've never been bad, And I think that it's almost impossible for a top bulls defense to be bad because of its temples and trying to stop the run, you know, playing zone coverage, all of those things. Right. I think that the way that he runs his defense almost insulate both insulates it from being bad and also limits it from being elite. Right. Because you don't always see that high level performance from them in terms of coverage. Now, some of that, I think, is personnel dependent, right? Because they just haven't been able to find, since Carlton Davis, you know, left another corner that they can genuinely trust to be in one-on-one coverage on a snap-to-snap basis.

22:36And maybe that's Benjamin Morrison, right? And I think that this continues to come up, right? Who are the players that you are going to be putting, you know, a lot of weight on whether or not this team turns a corner on? And I think that Benjamin Morrison is that. I think if Keontae Scott is able to punch through and become a starter in the slot, he may need to be that for them as well. And then I think that Yaya Diabe is another guy who needs to kind of repeat what we saw last season, right? He did have, you know, he was great in terms of generating pressure. Can we get him to finish even more of these pressures with QB hits and sacks?

23:07Can he really become a household name? Somebody we think about, maybe not in the tier one of edge rushers, but that guy that's outside of tier one, but you feel confident if the circumstances are right, can go turn in 12 to 15 sacks. If he turns into that player and you get the kind of play that I'm talking about from their defensive backs, then yeah, this might not just be a top 10 defense. It can be a top five defense because I think it's pretty well balanced. All three levels in a way that we haven't really seen from a Tampa Bay defense in a little bit. I think that for me, though, I just keep falling back on, do I trust that Todd Bowles is going to be able to address some of the issues that these offenses are throwing at defenses on a week-to-week basis.

23:45And we have absolutely seen some teams get after a Todd Bowles defense over the last few years. So I'm fascinated to see if the personnel here is good enough to overcome some of the schematic issues that I think gets presented to the way that Bowles likes to call his defense.

24:01Diante Lee:Yeah, it's like, does he have a second pitch or a third pitch? Because, you know, for many years there, it was like Todd Bowles established one of the best defensive coaches in the NFL. And then kind of the Shanahan tree guy started kind of carving them up and it just got ugly. It felt like every time he faced those teams. And even if you just look at it overall, the last three seasons, 17th, 18th and 19th, the Bucs in terms of EPA, their defense. So they've been more mediocre than good. Now, if they can get that pass rush going, maybe, you know, any defensive coach will tell you that makes life a little bit easier.

24:35Diante Lee:But I'm with you. He has to prove that he's got kind of, you know, some wrinkles, not as predictable, maybe. or some of his defenses of the past. When I was, Deontay, when I was a young Buck reporter and Eagles fire their defensive coordinator, Todd Bowles takes over. It's that dream team season. It's a disaster. I'm in the locker room after a game and Bowles is surrounded. I forget what game it was. I forget how much they got carved up. But there was a big play where Namdi Asama, who was having a nightmarish season, just got toasted. and you know I'm like all right how do I kind of fragilely ask Todd Bowles about that play so I'm like you know on that whatever it was 37 yard touchdown was it like you know complicated coverage or you know trying to basically act I don't want to be like did Nnamdi just get toasted but kind of tell you what happened and he just looked at me and goes nothing complicated about it that was high school cover three I'm like oh he's not I don't think he's happy with Nnamdi Asala on that play.

25:39Diante Lee:So yeah, that was always, I was like, after that, I never heard like just the defensive coordinator be that direct right after a game with like, nope, I'm not giving any excuses for that guy. He just got burned on that play. So yeah, anytime I think of Todd Bowles, I think a high school cover three for the last decade or so, because I'm an old man. And you know, those, those, that's a core memory for me as a young reporter. All right, let's take a break. We come back. We will get to our top eight defenses. for 2026. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. You can tell when someone is really passionate about something like football.

26:17Diante Lee:My friend Deontay Lee here at the Ringer loves the NFL, coaches high school football, makes a positive impact on his community. To find passionate talent for your team, use ZipRecruiter. Try it free at ziprecruiter.com slash Ringer NFL. Their powerful matching tech shows you candidates quickly while their new feature puts the most interested ones first. Find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash RingerNFL. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash RingerNFL.

26:57This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+.

27:23Diante Lee:All right, we are back here on the Ringer NFL Show. So far, only disagreements. Deontay's got the Chiefs and Bills in his top 10. And I've got the Bucks and Colts. Number eight, Deontay, who do you got? Going with the team that has been in the top 10 for each of the last two years, even though they've made a coaching change. I'm keeping the Los Angeles Chargers here and I've got them at number eight. Okay. I don't have them in. I feel now I've kind of made a habit of being like, they're not going to do this again and been wrong. Because like you said, they've been in the top 10 the last two years.

27:54Diante Lee:I worry that losing Jesse Minter, that we will see this roster is flawed and they might not be top 10, but I could be wrong. Make the case Chargers at number eight. I think the case starts with the fact that the new defensive coordinator, Chris O 'Leary, had worked under Jesse Minter for a while, right? And that they were pretty well connected going back to the time where Minter was coaching in college, right? So there's that piece of it. So a lot of, I think, the skeleton, the bones, the DNA of this defensive scheme, Chris O 'Leary was there, you know, putting his fingers on that just as much as Mentor was.

28:28Maybe not as much, but was certainly present, you know, with Mentor in that process. And, you know, going to training camp and talking with reporters there and, you know, sitting in those press conferences and asking questions of my own. I think that what I've come away with is the fact that they're not going to try to reinvent the wheel, right? I don't know if it'll be a one-to-one replica of what we've seen over the last two years with Jesse Minter calling the defense, but they're not going to stray from what works. And I think that what made this defense work, there was obviously some ingenuity from Minter in terms of the simulated pressures and all the creative ways to manipulate protections and manipulate blocking schemes to get plays in the backfield.

29:07But at the at its heart what makes this defense work is that tuli tuli piloto Has been you know a huge win for them as an edge. It's that khalil mac continues to be ageless It's the derwin james continues to be you know, one of the three best slot defenders in the nfl Those are like the tent poles that they built, you know What was a successful scheme around and I have no reason to believe that those guys are taking a step back until I see it myself, right? Now, what I feel even more strongly about it, if we got a news report while we were on this podcast that the Chargers somehow consummated some trade for Vita Vea, yeah, of course.

29:44You know, I think it would be much easier to stamp this thing, right? If they had, you know, a bona fide number one corner that we knew was it had all pro potential, right? Yes, I will feel a lot more comfortable about it, but we've seen this team be able to apply, you know, more aggressive man coverages, more match coverages, these simulated pressures with less than household names at these spots because they've been able to lean upon their superstars to do the heavy lifting and the scheme to put them in positions to be able to manipulate offenses to the defense's benefit. I need, while I don't think that Chris O 'Leary could ever reach what Minter did, I think I'm just going to keep leaning back on the fact that I trust that they'll find a way to replicate at least what we've seen in pieces.

30:27if not wholesale one-on-one comparison.

30:30Diante Lee:I was on a group chat earlier this week and you're batting around teams. All right, who's more likely to get to the Super Bowl, this team or this team? And I forget the chart. I think it was the Chargers and the Texans someone brought up. All right, who's more likely to get to the Super Bowl? And I said Texans, and it's hard for me because I like Carbaugh. I like McDaniel. I like Herbert. There are things I like about this Chargers team quite a bit. Even like you said, O 'Leary, I kind of like what they did there. He was in the building. He left, was a DC in college, came back. That hire makes sense to me.

31:05Diante Lee:I have no issue with the process there, and maybe he'll be good. I don't know that the Chargers have a Super Bowl caliber roster, and that's why I have them out of the top 10 on defense. I'm just looking at the names here, and to your point, I'm just like, why were we not more aggressive in some of our decision making in the offseason? and I know we've both been on the same page with their offense, but we're like, they could have done something. And it's the same thing with their defense. Like this feels like a time, a year where they could have said, we have Harbaugh, we have Herbert in his prime.

31:36Diante Lee:We kind of, you know, embarrassed ourselves in the playoffs last year. We have McDaniel for a year. You know, I don't know that you're going to have him for three years. If it goes well, you might not have him for that long. Like let's kind of, I'm not saying you have to put, you don't have to turn to the Rams and forego, you know, give up your three first round picks or whatever, but you could have done more. I feel like than what they've done, because I just look at spots on this roster and you know, you're right. Some of the personnel on defense is really good. You know, two, two or below two is very good.

32:05Diante Lee:Khalil Mack was good, but he's 35. Like I would rather have, and maybe a key message or they're like, Hey, that's our insurance policy. Okay. We'll see. Derwin James is 30. They signed Dalvin Tomlinson. He's 32. Tony Jefferson. I don't know if he's going to start for them or not. He's 34. When I start getting to three, four guys, you know, four guys over 30 who might be playing a key role for you. And now I add in a defense, new defensive coordinator. And now I look at some of the other positions and I go, I don't know, was Minter kind of doing a really good job of doing more with less with that defense?

32:36Diante Lee:Because that's kind of how I felt the last two years. Some of these defenses we'll talk about. I'm just going to be like their talents on overwhelming. I like the coordinator, but they're not. They're winning because their talents overwhelming. this team, this group of players, I think if you just handed to a, you know, your league average defensive coordinator, they're not a top 10 defense in my opinion. So you're kind of really relying on the coordinator to do more with less and maybe he'll be able to, but I couldn't get, that's why I couldn't get there with this Chargers defense. Where'd you have them ranked?

33:07Diante Lee:I'm curious. You know, I, I kind of did my top 10 and then sort of, I didn't put a number, but I, it looks like here I have them between 15 and 20. Okay. So, yeah, I have them actually in a similar range with the Bills and the Chiefs. So I don't think they're going to stink. I just think they're not going to be as good as last year. And I have some concerns about them. But again, it doesn't mean I'm right. I could, I probably, honestly, someone could probably find a clip of me last year saying something very similar and they still had Minter and they found a way to get it done. So maybe I'll be wrong once again, but that's kind of where I landed with the Chargers.

33:44Diante Lee:All right, it's a good segue here, Deontay, because my number eight team is the team that Minter went to. And you might come at me with the same argument, being like, have you seen you don't like the Chargers talent? Do you really like the Ravens talent? So maybe you will go that far, but Minter now back-to-back seasons. I thought he had to do more with less with that Chargers defense. And to your point, they were top 10 both years. This Nnamdi Matabouken use is among the biggest headlines of the summer so far. I think it's going under-discussed. if I'm being honest with you. Absolutely. So this is, I mean, it was a really scary situation.

34:19Diante Lee:He had a neck injury and Harbaugh and the Ravens were kind of just not giving any details about it. And they don't have to, you know, hopefully that's Matt Abuke's decision, but it looked like it could be a career ender for a guy who had been emerging as one of the best, you know, he went from sort of the hipster, hey, you got to watch Matt Abuke, man. I'm telling you, he's good on the Ravens. So then he's a free agent and he, or he approaches free agency and he gets a big contract. and then we all agree, nope, he's no longer a hipster under the radar defensive tackle. He's like one of the better defensive tackles in the NFL to then having that injury.

34:51Diante Lee:So I think adding him to this defensive line and then adding Trey Hendrickson to this defensive line to me is a big, big deal and kind of an easy explainer for why they can be better than they were last year, which they were 15th last year. And if you look at any pass rush stat, pressure rate, sack rate, I mean, we're talking about one of the five worst teams in the NFL. So in my head, you're adding Matabuke, you're adding Hendrickson, you're adding Minter that feels like enough for them to be better than last year. Now, maybe I'm going too far. Maybe they'll be 12th instead of eighth. But I looked at it and I felt good about those pieces combined with some of the pieces in the secondary with Nate Wiggins, with Kyle Hamilton.

35:35Diante Lee:I felt like they could be a pretty good defense this year. Do you have the Ravens in the top 10, Deontay? I do. I have them sixth, so we're in similar ground with them. And it's two things that really make you feel confident about Baltimore, in spite of how badly they struggled over the last two years defensively before bringing in Jesse Mentor. I think, number one, they gave him all the ingredients that I think he's most interested in in terms of building his defense. And those ingredients also look very similar to what was in Seattle this past year, really the past two years, right? I think that, especially, I would say that a lot of this hinges on Nnamdi Matabike being the version of himself that they need him to be.

36:16If he can be this team's version of— Which we don't know. To be fair, it's great.

36:20Diante Lee:I'm glad that he's back playing, but yeah, it's a good point to make. And Baltimore has really emphasized that they're taking their time, letting him ramp it up slowly, that they're going to let him kind of find his way as a player first, make sure that he's not skittish or unsure of what his health is going to be. but it seems like the arrow is trending upwards, right? I think I just saw a tweet that, you know, Travis Jones has been dealing with a pec injury is going to be returning to practice soon. And I think that that combination, if you're telling me that Travis Jones and Nnamdi Matabike is going to serve as their version of Leonard Williams and Byron Young, I like that starting point.

36:54It's a good deal, yeah. I really like that starting point, you know? I don't think that, I think that you're really banking on Trey Hendrickson being maybe not the 17 and a half sack guy that he was, you know, at the peak of his time. in Cincinnati, but if he can be a 10, 12, 13 sack guy, there's your speed rusher, which is exactly what I think this defense is looking forward to. We want one guy who we can really count on being able to win those one-on-ones and we'll let the scheme handle the rest in terms of pushing the pocket and we'll send, you know, creative blitzes to make sure that he gets his one-on-ones so they have that piece as well.

37:28And then I think that what I'm most confident in, and this comes, this goes back to Minster's time in Los Angeles, what he was able to get out of guys like Tarheap still, what he was able to get out of Dante Jackson, what he was able to get out of unproven young commodities at corner and then veteran guys who have bounced around a bit. That is, he's kind of bought carte blanche for me in terms of trust with developing this position. And when I look at a guy like Nate Wiggins, when I look at, you know, Chidobe Awuzie, when I look at Marlon Humphrey, these are guys who are still talented enough to serve an important purpose for a defense.

38:02but we have just seen these wild fluctuations over the last two years and how they play. You know, Wiggins has been banged up. Humphrey's been banged up. Genevieve Wuse is just not the same as he was when he was younger and more closely tied to his athletic peak. But I've seen Minter figure out a way to get aggressive, you know, matchy, taking away these passing lanes and the intermediate areas that offenses want to attack. He's bought my trust in that way, and I think that he can get that out of him. and then they've got maybe the greatest chess piece on defense in the league, in Kyle Hamilton, you know?

38:35And we saw with, I would say, a subpar defensive play caller in Zach Orr, they were always able to say, hey, 14, we've got a problem out in this area of the field. We're going to put you here and you're going to fix it. And lo and behold, the problems would get fixed. It's an annual tradition.

38:49Diante Lee:Week six, week eight. All right, Ravens defense isn't good. Because we're giving up too many explosive plays. Okay. You know? It must be nice. We go through two months. okay, we give up too many explosive plays, so Kyle Hamilton's going to play deep. Okay, we're giving up too much in the run game, so Kyle Hamilton's going to play closer to the line of scrimmage. We're not getting enough out of our pass rush, so Kyle Hamilton's going to be more of a blitzer. And I mean, just inevitably, he ends up being the most impactful player on the field in that way. And, you know, Derwin James was that for Jesse Minter in Los Angeles.

39:17So again, like, if I'm just kind of stacking up, do you have something that looks like what you were doing when you were successful most recently, which he does, and do you have some pieces that kind of fit the current meta of championship level defenses across the league? And I think that they do. Now, it hasn't all coalesced yet, and this is not the first time that we have talked about anything with Baltimore and said, hey, well, they've got all the pieces that you need to be a contender, and we're expecting them to turn that corner. I just trust that what Jesse Minter did in his two years under Jim Harbaugh as a defensive coordinator for the Chargers, that he'll be able to replicate that here.

39:52And if they do, this can be 100 % a team that is right back in what I think they believe is their right-hole position as one of the Super Bowl frontrunners.

40:02Diante Lee:I like the Deontay defensive tackle theory here. Maybe just, all right, let me go through, let me rank who are the best defensive tackle pairings on these teams. Those might just end up being the best defenses because it kind of feels that way sometimes when you look at it. and who are the defensive tackles who can kind of control the game, both against the run and provide disruption as pass rushers. You know, that's a nice foundation to build a defense off of. And again, the Ravens, it's not guaranteed that they have that, but maybe, you know, hopefully it'll be a great, nice feel-good story if Damdi Matabuke can come back and play well for them this season.

40:39Diante Lee:All right. So when I was giving the explainer to Deontay, I couldn't tell if he had him higher than May or if he's like, no, are you crazy? they're not even going to be in the top 10. He did have them higher. I'm improving. I'm improving on my poker face because I typically give away exactly how I feel. I was like, I'm about to get ripped. He's going to be like, Takaya, Takasta has done a terrible job putting this defense together. But no, he's with me. He's got him at six. I had him at eight. All right, number seven, Deontay. Who do you got? Again, this all comes back to this theme of how much do you trust a team's strengths?

41:11And what I saw in the postseason from New England has bought my trust, especially on the back end defensively. I've got them at number seven. They're my number seven defense on this list.

41:21Diante Lee:I do not have the Patriots in my top 10. All right, now, again, your defensive tackle theory works here, and there's other stuff working in their favor. It was an impressive postseason. What else has you bullish about the Patriots? Well, it's really that, right? You have Milton Williams. You have Christian Barmore. They were really effective all season, I would say, in terms of pushing pockets. And then I think as the season went on and they kind of found themselves in terms of what personnel they wanted to use, really being able to stop the run with those two guys as your interior pieces too.

41:54And then I'm looking at their edge combo, which is nothing really to write home about between Draymond Jones, Harold Landry, and then you look at his backup, maybe top backup will be Gabe Yacus, right? Who's a rookie. I think that there's maybe, if there's one spot where you're left wanting, it's probably there because there's nothing that really screams to you. high-end production, right? But they've been able to get, they were able to get away with that last year because Carlton Davis and Christian Gonzalez are maybe outside of Houston, the best, you know, man coverage duo in terms of cornerbacks in the league, right?

42:26Like I would say specifically with Christian Gonzalez, and it's funny, I've been, I was just working on a piece about cornerbacks, which I'm hoping is out not too long after, you know, people are listening to this podcast. But you look at Christian Gonzalez on a snap-by-snap basis, and then just the trajectory he's been on early in his career. And I feel like we say this with every young corner, but maybe he really is the next best guy after Patrick Sertan, right? Like he's right up there with Quinjon Mitchell. He's right up there, you know, with Derek Stingley. And I would say that his playoff performance really, I think, kind of cemented that for me.

42:58And then having Carlton Davis as a number two, even though he is aging a bit, you still see that he can ramp it up and be a great press man corner. He can still play the ball really well. He wasn't a big, a huge problem with penalties the way that he was at times in Detroit. And him being healthy, I think, makes a big difference for this team as well. So again, another team that has some of the component pieces I'm most interested in, run-stopping defensive tackles and guys who can push to pocket. You can play tight coverage out on the perimeter. And the one thing that they are missing, I think, is an ability to be extra multiple in terms of what defensive backs they can put on and take off the field to match up or get advantages on offensive personnels.

43:37But again, they're able to kind of buttress that by the fact that they're one and two in terms of their corner room is near, if not at the top of the NFL.

43:45Diante Lee:I'm having such a hard time this summer deciding whether I think the Patriots are going to be good or not in 2026. Because I know, I'm sure if you're a Patriots fan, you're tired of hearing about the schedule strength stuff. But just to cover your ears or hit the fast forward 15 seconds if you want to. But Deontay, their defense last year faced the easiest schedule of opposing offenses, and it wasn't even close. Like I was looking at DVOA, the difference between them and the Bills, who had the second easiest slate of opposing offenses, that was the same as the difference between the Bills and the Chiefs, who had the eighth easiest.

44:22Diante Lee:So difference between one and two, same as the difference between two and eight. So I'm just like, huh, well, in the playoffs, you know, they faced some, not like unbelievable offenses, but some decent offenses and they completely... I think that you're being generous in that too. Yeah. Well, the quarterbacks is like, all right, and I kind of like the quarterbacks, but those were not good offenses. Offensive lines were bad. Offensive lines, yeah. So it's just like, how much do I believe what I saw? You know, you got the schedule. They had the fifth healthiest defense last year when you look at adjusted games lost.

44:53Diante Lee:Yet, to your point, two defensive tackles who I really like, two corners who I really like. So now that's a nice foundation. Now, can the edge group be good enough? Can the linebacker group be good enough? Can the safety group be good enough? Those guys don't have to be all pros, but if you're coaching it up and it's like, all right, everyone knows what their job is, then I do think there are the bones there for a top 10 defense. I just wasn't quite there, but I wasn't far off. I had them between 10 and 15. So I had them above the Bills and a lot of, you know, the other defenses you mentioned, Chiefs, Bills, Chargers.

45:27Diante Lee:I actually had the Patriots above all those defenses. So they were kind of right outside my top 10. They were a team I considered, but ultimately I'm just like so much of the defensive statistics, which I, you know, I like defensive. I like statistics, but it's like, what quarterbacks did you play last year? When the quarterbacks are good, your stats aren't going to be as good. When the quarterbacks are bad, your stats are going to be a lot better. So you have to do more than just statistical analysis when it gets to the defenses. And I was just kind of on the fence a little bit there with that Patriots team.

45:57Diante Lee:All right, Deontay's got them number seven. I like this. So we're going to have at least four different teams in our top 10 because you've got Patriots, Chargers, Chiefs, and Bills. I don't have any of them. My number 17 is just a hand this coach any 11 players in a year where I can't find 10 defenses and I'm just going to throw them in the top 10. If I get burned, so be it. But that's how much trust I have in him. And that's Brian Flores. and that's the Minnesota Vikings, Deontay. Did they make your top 10 or did you look at that depth chart and go, I can't do it? I can't do it with the depth chart.

46:38I have them at 14 in this exercise. So, you know, not like I expect this defense to totally fall off a cliff. But I think last year, while it wasn't bad, I think kind of left me wanting a little bit, right? Like I just found myself watching a Vikings defense that was very competitive, right? But still, it's like, man, imagine if they actually had a tier one, tier two player at this position here, how much more they'd be able to get out of it. Imagine if they had X. Imagine if they had Y with all the other heavy lifting that the scheme is doing for them. I just keep coming back to that, and that's probably why I have them outside my top 10.

47:16I mean, I feel pretty strongly, without doing a full analysis here, that they are probably the least talented defense in either of our top 10s, I think.

47:26Diante Lee:I would say so. Like, I think that Brian Flores, if you were like, hey, you can swap. Now, you know, he might be like loyal to his guys, but I think maybe if you got the lie detector on him and were like, you can swap your personnel with any of these other defenses that Sheila and Deontay had in their top 10, do you want to do it? I think they would probably have to say yes. This depth chart is not close to a top 10 depth chart, in my opinion, in terms of just the talent, the names on the piece of paper. So it's going to take a great coaching job from Brian Flores to get them to the top 10. Now, the last two years, they've been, I'm with you.

48:08Diante Lee:And last year you watched it and there were certainly games where they got exposed. And it's not like they felt like a juggernaut defense. And yet you looked up at the end of the year and they were what? Third, third in defensive DVOA, I believe. So I'm just like, man, and that was a better defense, but that wasn't the most talented, you know, nearly the most talented defense in the NFL. So they lost Jonathan Grenard. They traded him this off season. So they lose some pass rush. Harrison Smith, his status is kind of uncertain. Is he retired? Is he going to come back? I think that remains unclear as of this recording.

48:39Diante Lee:They swapped out some older defensive tackles in Javon Hargrave and Jonathan Allen, and they used draft capital to draft defensive linemen. A lot of uncertainty. Dallas Turner is a big, big player for them. I think he had a better year last year. They need him to be a big-time player for them. But yeah, this isn't going to be a defense where even if they're good, we're looking up at the end of the year going, oh, they had three all pros on this defense. I just don't think that's going to be the case yet. I'm going to give Flores the benefit of the doubt. I think that's fair, right? Especially with the way that our conversation has gone today because a lot of this outside of the top five has been, you know, we're checking on trust.

49:20We're checking on, you know, what's been proven on a year-to-year basis. And there's nobody who checks that box more than Brian Flores, right? So much so that whether it's been in Miami or over the last few years in Minnesota, when people leave his defenses, they typically don't play as well anymore, which is like the greatest sign that you could look for that the scheme is what's really unlocking what these guys are as players they don't check a lot of my boxes and I think that that's why I left them off right they don't have a dominant defensive tackle duo at least to my eyes right I think Jalen Redmond is interesting I think a Caleb a healthy Caleb Banks in theory can be dominant we've seen we saw that in his college tape coming out of Florida and I'd like to believe that his foot, you know, his feet injuries are going to be a thing of the past and they'll be able to depend on him to play, you know, 15 plus games in his pro career, but it's just not something that's been demonstrated yet.

50:12And I'm not ready to, you know, bank or bet on that. They don't have edge rushers, I think, to make up for that. I think the Dallas Turner has certainly started to turn a corner in his career in terms of being more consistent because there was a moment in a first year, year or so of his career where I found myself asking like, So when exactly is it that Dallas Hurd is supposed to take over?

50:33Diante Lee:They traded a big trade for him. Yeah, there was a lot invested in him. They called their shot on that guy, and he just hasn't turned out quite yet. Now, maybe down the second half of last year when things were more thrust in his lap and he just had to be their lead rusher, maybe that's a sign of what's to come. And maybe that was just volume goes up. So production goes up because the opportunity is there. I don't know really what to make of that quite yet. And then after that, you look at the rest of the back seven, and it's just a lot of stuff that's being taped together, right? With, you know, toothpicks, glue, et cetera, et cetera, right?

51:06I think that there's a lot that you're really hoping on in terms of Byron Murphy still being able to play at a high level, Isaiah Rogers being able to play at a high level. These are boom and bust guys that we're talking about right now. Players when they're not forcing turnovers, not blitzing and getting sacks, not jumping routes, you're not going to get high level snap to snap play. Yeah. I just don't know if I'm willing to bet on that because there's just nothing really undergirding this in case they don't force turnovers, in case they don't scheme up a bunch of snaps. There's nothing outside of Brian Flores' scheme that makes me feel like, oh, okay, we can look up in mid-October and this team might be pushing in the top three or even in the top eight and more stable defensive metrics.

51:48I just can't project that right now.

51:51Diante Lee:Yeah, I agree with everything you said. And yet, I looked at the other teams and I said, who do I want to bet on here? And I said, let me just bet on... That's the right approach. Maybe. It might be a dumb approach where we're like, why did I think... No, you know, coaching is great, but no coach. You could put together the 10 greatest defensive coaches of all time and they can't get this to be a top 10 defense. I will say, if there's one guy who you won't get Yadda for being wrong on, I feel like Brian Flores is on that short list. You can understand it. They could be the 25th best defense, but if you say, hey, I see Brian Flores, I hit the top 10 button.

52:26I don't think anybody is going to protest that one too hard.

52:29Diante Lee:Well, listen, nice job by him getting that raise this offseason because he probably looked at the depth chart and was like, all right, I'm not going to say this out loud. I'm running my money. I'm running every penny here. Now's the time to cash in because he's looking at some of these other defenses that we're probably about to get to. And he's like, oh my gosh, if I were to go to a team that had that kind of talent, look out, you know, we're going to be the best defense in the NFL. All right, let's take one more break. We come back. We already have Deontay's number six team as the Ravens. I'll tell him my number six team, which I think he's going to have in the top five, but maybe not.

53:04Diante Lee:Maybe he'll surprise me. We'll get to those when we come back. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+.

53:36Diante Lee:I'm not giving up. I am selling the building. The final season of FX is the bear. The restaurant is flooded. Everything's either going to be okay. Or not. We are outgunned and we are outmanned. We have each other. FX is the Bear, the final season. All episodes now streaming on Disney+. All right, back here on the Ringer NFL show, Ari. Like I said, Deontay had the Ravens number six. My number six team, Deontay, the Denver Broncos. Do you have them in your top five? They are in my top five. They're number five for me. Number five. Okay, so we're pretty much on the same page here. you know this one's a pretty I think a mostly easy analysis we can get to maybe why we don't have them top three Broncos fans might be yelling what do you mean five and six they're going to be better than that so top five in consecutive seasons very good roster you know again this is one where Flores is probably looking at it going I yeah calling out Vance Joseph you imagine you got some dogs over there you know I would love to have Bats or Tan as my number one corner so So they just, you know, the pressure, the upfront, the pass rush was very good last year.

54:51Diante Lee:Sack rate, pressure rate, whatever. You know, they still play that aggressive style, which I like. I like that not everybody's moving to a specific scheme. You have a team that say, no, we're going to play man coverage. And Vance Joseph is saying, we're going to blitz. And he's coached a lot of good defenses over the course of his career doing it this way. And they've got the core, you know, one of the best groups of corners, I would say, in the NFL. I think there's a case that they're the best, but certainly top three. So pass rush, great corners, good scheme, aggressive play caller. You're going to be in a good place, Deontay.

55:23Diante Lee:That's really what it came down to for me with the Broncos. I think this is probably the first team we've come across where I'm like, I actually don't think I have to pitch that hard to make this one make sense. We have a proven track record of great defense. Continuity is there. Outside of John Franklin Myers departed for Tennessee, right? or a lot of the other component parts are still there. I mean, Dre Greenlaw left to go back to San Francisco, but he was banged up in Denver. And it's not like they got the best version of him anyways because he was still recovering, I think, from the Achilles injury and trying to find out what his career in his 30s is going to look like because he's just not as explosive a player as he was in his athletic prime.

56:00Everything that matters most to this team is still basically in place. They still have Zach Allen, who's performed at a high level for them. You've got Nick Benito and Jonathan Cooper, one of the better edge rushing duos in the league, Nick Benito specifically, being one of the most unique, you know, pass rushers, effective pass rushers in football, you know, being able to play as a relatively undersized guy in terms of weight and really winning almost exclusively with speed, you know, and a great get off. That's been one of the things that I really enjoyed watching about this team. And then I've got the best cornerback in football, right?

56:31The best cornerback with the bullet, in my opinion, in football and Patrick Sertan II. And I think that the only thing that can really disrupt what we've seen in terms of them being stable on a year-to-year basis is if offenses find a new way to feel like we never have to throw the ball at Sertan ever. We can just attack their safeties in Riley Moss. Now, that is on the table. They kind of already tried that, it feels like, right? That's on the table. That's on the table. But if you're able to force offenses to work through such a narrow lens, that speaks to all the things that you're doing well schematically and in terms of building your defensive roster.

57:08I don't know because of their I don't know if it's because of their aggression On a you know play-to-play basis That I'm just not comfortable saying that a team That blitzes a team that plays as much man Coverage the way that the broncos do Are going to be the number one defense but they Most certainly could be and I would say that every team that I have In my top five you know you could flip a Coin to me and lay out and on I can lay out The um the case for them being The top defense in football denver definitely Meets that requirement for me

57:35Diante Lee:So the only thing I really looked at, well, I guess there's two things. One, very healthy last year, third and adjusted games loss. So maybe your depth gets tested a little bit more this year, but I sort of feel like they're built to handle that. The big thing to me was they were second pressure rate and first and sack rate last year. And you mentioned it. They lose John Franklin Myers, which is, you know, it's not like losing Miles Garrett, but very good player, John Franklin Myers. And then Jonathan Cooper has this legal trouble. He's facing this from The AP was arrested, multiple charges that he violated a protection order filed against him after his initial arrest stemming from a domestic dispute with his girlfriend.

58:19Diante Lee:So this is obviously troubling off-field news for Jonathan Cooper. This was in June, and is he potentially facing a suspension? because if you're talking about losing Cooper and Franklin Myers from that pass rush, now all of a sudden I'm thinking, all right, that's not as deep or as quality of a group as they had last year. So that was the only thing I could really look at. So that's something to keep an eye on this summer about how that situation plays off the field and then obviously how it affects the Broncos on the field. So that's the only reason I had them down there at six and not higher.

58:55Diante Lee:Deontay had them at number five. All right, Deontay, you ready for my biggest surprise here? I'm kind of afraid now, just looking at the list of available defenses. I think that this is going to be you calling a pretty big shot if I'm just looking at what's available here. I would say so. I think our top four, I would imagine, are the same four teams, maybe not in the same order. Number five, Deontay. I got the Pittsburgh Steelers at number five. Okay, you know what? That's not as wild as I thought it was going to be. Okay, all right. He's not ready to be like, I'm signing off this pod. He can throw his headphones down and be like, get me out of here with this bozo.

59:31Diante Lee:All right, so here's the case for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Patrick Graham, I don't know what kind of wizardry he was working last year with the Raiders. They were 14th in defensive DVOA last year. This was with probably Pete Carroll telling him for half the year, we got to do some of my stuff. So he didn't have full autonomy. And then a defensive depth chart that just, I mean, we were saying the Vikings were top 10. I mean, all due respect, there's all professional football players. So I'm not dogging them, but just comparatively to the other defenses, not even close to my opinion, to top 14 talent.

1:00:10Diante Lee:And so now he goes to Pittsburgh. he's working for an offensive head coach in Mike McCarthy. So he will presumably have full autonomy. And this is a guy, Patrick Graham has a long track record in the NFL. I mean, I'm not saying he's like a top five defense everywhere he goes, but I've kind of liked him everywhere he's gone, where I've always looked at it at the end of the season and been like, he's gotten the most out of that talent that he's had. So now he's got what I think might be the most underrated front in the league. I mean, I really like this group up front. I think it's a great blend of vets, TJ Watt, Alex Highsmith, Cam Hayward.

1:00:45Diante Lee:You have Nick Herbig in there. And then you have young players who I like, Keanu Benton. Derek Harmon is another sort of X factor. Like if we might be talking in week eight, like, man, Derek Harmon looks like one of the best players on this defense. So I really like the front quite a bit. And I think they're deep where if one of the two of those guys gets injured, guess what? It's not going to all go out the window because they're pretty deep there. So you've got that. And then listen, I'm not telling you the secondary is a sure thing, but Joey Porter Jr. I thought had a pretty good year last year.

1:01:15Diante Lee:You've got Vats, Jalen Ramsey, Jamel Dean, Jaquan Brisker. These are all guys who have played a lot of football, a little edge to them where I can see them fitting well together in that Steelers secondary. And I looked at it and the Steelers last year were 11th in defensive DVOA. So 11 to five, if you look at it that way, is not the biggest leap in the world. So I'm putting faith in Patrick Graham. And then this is just, I like the talent here on this defense. So every year I try to, you know, call my shot with a little surprise in the top five. Some of them miss, some of them hit, but the Steelers are kind of my big surprise for the top five this year.

1:01:52So I had them in that same range between like 12 and 16, or it's like, I just don't know what to do with you as a team. And like one of the notes I had was like, awesome depth in the front seven, no depth in the back, right? Like, that is just very, it's just been very concerning for me, right? Like, I'm assuming that Jalen Ramsey, by the time the season gets around, that he will be totally available. I think that he started doing some field work at training camp recently, which I think is, you know, a positive sign. I think that he'll be fine. I think the same for Joey Porter Jr., right? Like, you get these guys available, their top 11 should be able to square off with any top 11 in the NFL and feel like we can stop just about anybody, especially, I would say, if Joey Porter Jr.

1:02:34is able to replicate what we saw last year at his peak, where it really seemed like the physical nature of his play, kind of having that height, having the long arms, having just enough speed to be able to match up with receivers, it all started to seem like it was starting to click for him and the game was starting to slow down and you weren't seeing the holding, the illegal contacts, the defensive pass interference penalties, or giving up these catches where you feel like a player of his stature and his ability should be a little bit more competitive at the catch point. You're starting to see that corner get turned.

1:03:04So I can definitely buy the fact that he can continue to play at a high level. But I look at Jaquan Brisker. That's somebody I'm really concerned with from a health and injuries long-term perspective. Jamel Dean has been banged up throughout his career because he is one of those smaller guys who has just like no problem throwing his body in the mix, right? Like he will definitely lay it all on the line. He's dealt with quite a few lower body injuries. nothing that's really been significant, but he just is that kind of guy that is going to have to miss some games here or there because he is going to be banged up.

1:03:34And you just look at the bodies that are behind some of these players that we're naming, and you're really going to be clenching on Sundays if you're a Steelers fan, hoping, hey, if it's third down and it's an obvious passing situation, let's please get some good pressure quickly so this quarterback doesn't start picking on some holes that we might have in the secondary, especially if the guys are banged up. So not quite sure if I'm ready to take the top 10 leap for them. I do think this is a playoff quality defense, though. And I think that they're really going to be relying upon their offense to set a proper game script that is not going to ask this very veteran-laden starting 11 to have to be, you know, not perfect, but playing an A game every week because I don't know if they can access that as often as some of these guys used to be able to in their primes.

1:04:18Diante Lee:All fair concerns, yeah. The front has to make up for deficiencies in the back end. and sometimes good defenses, they're able to do that, and other times they're not able to do that, and all of a sudden the flaws are exposed there a little bit. So let's see if I'm right with that Steelers prediction or if I'm wrong. All right, we're at the top four. I would be pretty stunned if we did not have the same top four, but they might not be in the same order. Deontay, who do you have as the number four defense? Got it. This almost feels like I want to go 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D, right? just to be a total coward about this.

1:04:55Can't do it. Got to rank them.

1:04:57Diante Lee:Sorry. No copping out here. The number 14 for me would be the Philadelphia Eagles. That's who I have at four. And I think that, again, we've been talking about common threads all the way around. And this team checks all the boxes that I've been talking about this episode. And then they have the thing that would otherwise give me caution with other strong young defenses, which they actually have depth. They've got the defensive tackles. they after adding Jonathan Gennard you look at their edge room and you say hey if the worst you know if your number three guy is Nolan Smith and the worst guy in your week-to-week edge rotation is going to be some mixture of Arnold Ebuchetti or AJ Epinesa there are a lot of teams that I think that will be beating down the door to say that that's their four to five man edge rotation you think about Zach Bond you know maybe he's not going to access that first team all pro level that we saw you know during the Super Bowl run but even last year I thought that he was good against the run, maybe made a few more mistakes in pass coverage than usual, but that was also just the defense took on a bit of a different shape because guys were banged up and he didn't have the best version of Jalen Carter playing in front of him.

1:06:00I think the training camp reports about Jahad Campbell starting to maybe get a better grasp of the defense, playing a little bit faster, not having to split his time between learning linebacker and edge, and maybe most importantly, he's not entering training camp nursing a pec injury the way that he was coming into last year. So I think that that helps big time. And then I think that this is a player that you might be just as excited about as I am to see what it turns out to be. Having Rick Wollin as your number two corner instead of the mixture of a Dory Jackson and, you know, all the other guys that they were bringing in, you know, Ja 'Cory and Bennett, etc.

1:06:35All those names that they were rotating opposite of Quinion Mitchell. Rick Wollin, even I think at his C plus B minus level, is an upgrade there. and because of his athletic potential, right? He could very easily have, you know, a Trevon Diggs-esque, you know, big pop this year where, because he knows he's protected in all these different ways, he's playing aggressively. He's jumping routes. You're playing with another elite defensive coordinator and a team that I think wants to see him play his best, even if they can't retain him, if he does play like, you know, a Pro Bowl level player because it would help Philadelphia remain as contenders in the NFC and in the NFL outright.

1:07:12So they've got all those pieces, You know, they've got two great young players in Mitchell and Dejean in the back end Two great young players in Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis on the front end You've got young edge rushers Again, all those boxes are checked The depth is there I can definitely see this being the best defense in the NFL And I think more importantly, they are set up well to not be, you know Any worse than a good defense A top eight defense in the league

1:07:38Diante Lee:I think the top four teams, you could definitely make the case Any of them is the best defense in the NFL wouldn't surprise me. Whereas it would actually kind of surprise me if the teams below our top four, if one of them ended up being the best. Now it's crazy. Anything can happen. And there are always surprises. That's why we watch. But I'm with you. I was out at Eagles training camp last week and you just kind of look around and you're just like, they are loaded with talent. And not only are they loaded with talent, it is on defense. Loaded with talent on defense, but every player, the arrow should be pointing up or pointing sideways at the worst.

1:08:13Diante Lee:Either at their peak or ascending. Yeah, exactly. Every guy is basically between 22 and 27 years old. I think Zach Bond might be the only exception there. But I mean, those corners, Cooper Dejean, Quinion Mitchell, Rick Woolen, Jahad Campbell, very interesting player to watch on this Eagles defense in year two. You know, he could end up being a household name where we're like, oh, Jahad Campbell's a top 10 off-ball linebacker in the NFL by the end of the season. I don't think that would necessarily shock anyone. Jalen Carter was playing injured last year. He could have more of an impact this year.

1:08:48Diante Lee:You mentioned the edge group, Jordan Davis. So it's just like you look up and down, and when you have that much talent and when you have a tremendous defensive coordinator in Vic Fangio, kind of what you said earlier, you don't have to work too hard to convince people that this is going to be a very, very good defense that can withstand some injuries. They have some depth. safety is probably the biggest question mark, but that's what the money's for, for Vic Fangio. You know, sorry, you can't have an all pro at like every position. You're going to have to figure it out at some of these. So yeah, Grenard is an injury to keep an eye on.

1:09:21Diante Lee:He's been injured this summer where I really liked that pickup for them, but he's got to get healthy for them to kind of give them, I think, you know, enough pass rush there. So I actually have the Eagles at number three. So we're in the same ballpark there. I had them at three. Deontay had them at four. I have the Rams at four. Deontay, how high would you go with the Los Angeles Rams? The Rams to me or two. Two? Okay. You went with the Rams at two. I went, again, these teams, we could just move on. We could end the podcast. You're our top four. Everyone gets it. Honestly. Man, Miles. The thing about the Miles Garrett addition, I think we did talk about it at the time, but it can't be overstated that this is such a different situation than he had in Cleveland when you look at the supporting cast.

1:10:09Diante Lee:I mean, the Rams last year without Myles Garrett ranked fifth in pressure rate and ninth in sack rate. And now you're adding Myles freaking Garrett. So it's just like, you know, to a group that has Byron Young, who had 54 pressures last year. They had Kobe Turner, who has 54 pressure, 52 pressures last year. Braden Fisk, Puna Ford, like they've got other guys where it's just, I know teams are still going to go in and say, we have, you know, I know how offensive coordinators think. We cannot let Miles Garrett wreck the game. We cannot let Miles Garrett wreck the game. But now those other guys are really positioned to take advantage of it.

1:10:44Diante Lee:And then you just look at the corners. It's like they looked at their weakness from last year and were like, screw it. Let's just go get some, you know, a great quarterback. Okay. You can say we overpaid, whatever. Trent McDuffie, come on down. And then Jalen Watson, that's going to be an improvement. Because last year, I think those pressure rate numbers and the sack rate, it's like pretty impressive because they were vulnerable at corner. And when, you know, sometimes the pass rush just can't get home because the coverage isn't good enough. And so now you tie it all together. And as of this recording, this is important to say, Aaron Donald has not signed with the Rams.

1:11:18Diante Lee:By the time you listen to this, he may have signed with the Rams. It just feels like it's happening at some point this week. And even if you don't know what you're getting from him, it's like, I don't, they don't even need to have Aaron Donald to be a top five defense to me. And if you add him, easy ceiling to be the best defense in the NFL. Deontay, what did I miss there with the Rams breakdown? Nothing. I mean, you checked all the boxes, right? I think that one of the things that's interesting for me, and I got to see the Rams practice at training camp, didn't necessarily get to talk to anybody in depth about it besides checking in with some of our reporter buddies about just what the feeling has been in the building as I'm watching from the sideline.

1:12:00but you can infer, right? You can always infer what messages teams are sending based off of how they approach the offseason. And there was two major messages that I think that Los Angeles was sending. One was that they felt like they needed closers, right? That's why you go out and get a Miles Garrett. And then I think about Trent McDuffie in the Chiefs 2023 playoff run, which led to them beating San Francisco in the Super Bowl. You think about what his postseason looked like then when he's locking up guys like Deebo Samuel, you know, who was the skeleton key for the 49ers offense that year. He played really well against Tyreek Hill and Jalen Waddell when they had their wild card game, you know, in Kansas City.

1:12:36Obviously, it was freezing, which was a disadvantage for Miami. But he was playing very physically at that time, too. Played great against Buffalo. This is a guy that does everything for this defense, right? Played great. He played great against Baltimore in the AFC Championship game that year as well. Was really, you know, in Zay Flowers' shirt, in Rashad Bateman's shirt throughout those games. I think that you look at adding players like that and Jalen Watson, you're bringing in guys who are physical, who are closers, who in high leverage situations have a proven track record of being able to rise to the occasion.

1:13:08And then there's something else that I think that they're messaging to. I think that Sean McVay probably spent all spring and summer re-watching his games against Seattle and then watching the way that Seattle played the rest of the season and saying, we were talented enough to say that we could beat them, but they had a little extra oomph that we were missing in terms of physicality, in terms of, you know, making the game look like it hurt on the defensive side of the ball. And I think that that's what some of these additions are signaling as well, that they want guys that are the kind of guys that throw the first punch, right?

1:13:39I think that that's really what they're looking for. It's not a surprise to me. It would not be a surprise to me, I should say, if they show up and say the way that Seattle played last year, the way that Philadelphia played two years ago, where they've got their set best 11, you know, personnel grouping. And no matter what you do as an offense, you're going to have to deal with our best 11 defenders. And we're just going to try to put a dent in everybody's face mask. I think that that's going to be the style of play that they're really going to try to embrace and wrap their arms around. And I would not be surprised at all if, whether they have Aaron Donald back or not, if we're looking up and watching the Rams be one of the two or three toughest defenses to deal with on a snap-to-snap basis from a physicality tackling and being fundamentally sound perspective.

1:14:21Diante Lee:I mean, the other thing about those matchups with Seattle is McVay has to feel like we, you know, it's McVay's offense versus McDonald's defense. They actually won that matchup. They won those matchups. He's the only, he's literally, him and Stafford were the only guys who were able to figure out how to put points up and move the ball and put yards up against the Seahawks defense, which was the best in the NFL. and it wasn't enough because you know you can look at say you look at sam darnold and it's like if he doesn't just shred that rams defense apart you know in the nfc championship they don't win the super bowl and you know who knows what conversations we're having uh you know after the way last season played out so he's looking at it going man we just if we need to be better defensively i'll figure it out offensively they went out they were aggressive by the way overall i know there were times i just mentioned that NFC championship game.

1:15:16Diante Lee:There were other times specifically in the second half of last year where the Rams defense didn't play well. If you add it all up, they were 10th in EPA per drive and fourth in DVOA last year. So they faced a tough schedule. They were an above average defense by any metric. And now they had a Miles Garrett, Trent McDuffie, Jalen Watson, and they're even better positioned this year. So I know, I'm sure people are tired of the Rams hype, but like Like we said before, go get your team to go get trade for Myles Garrett, and we'll talk about them a lot in the offseason. So, all right, you've got the Rams too.

1:15:52Diante Lee:I've got the Rams four. I had the Eagles three. You had the Eagles four. Who do you have number three, Deontay? Number three, I have our reigning Super Bowl champion, Seattle Seahawks. Okay. and I think that I think that there are a lot of Seahawks fans that will probably be miffed A that there is this Rams hype train B that the Rams are again ranked ahead of Seattle who won a championship and beat this team in two of the last three games that they played last season and I totally get that this is really of no fault of Seattle's they did such a great job building this roster and maximizing every corner of it last year that it was almost impossible for them to maintain or improve upon what was already there, right?

1:16:39And then Kobe Bryant leaves, Rick Willen leaves. You lose some talent. It doesn't mean that they're going to be worse off for it. I actually think that they have the depth to be able to survive that. But the team is relatively static, and I can't give them credit for the same things that we mark as potential concerns for other teams. And we're talking about Denver. Continuity is both, you know, a feather in their cap and something to watch for in case guys go down because that means that you probably aren't adding a lot more depth if you're trying to hold your starting 11 together as much as possible.

1:17:10So I'll just have an eye on what the health of this team looks like, what the interior depth looks like if guys do go down or have to miss time, and then what some of their new additions in the back end looks like, right? If no egg monogamy has to go because Nicky Manwari is banged up this year. I'm interested in what that does for the shape of this defense. Does that mean more Devin Witherspoon in the slot, in the slot, which means less proven guys playing out on the perimeter. And that worked great for Josh Jobe last year, right? Like they maximized having Jobe going from, you know, a practice squad, fringe roster guy to being a, you know, magnificent contributor really out on the perimeter in Seattle once he got there.

1:17:47I'm just interested to see if you can do it again. And that's not really a challenge. It's not me saying that I have any doubt. It's not me saying that they can't do that. But this is just the nature of the league. Once you're a champion, there's some attrition, You know, it's been in small amounts for Seattle, but I am fascinated to see if they can kind of line up what was clearly just the best defense at being able to put their best 11 guys on there and just being better than anybody else that they were matched up against. I don't know if you can do that back-to-back years.

1:18:16Diante Lee:Yeah, I think you said it well. I mean, they were great last year, but they did lose guys and they do have injuries this year. I mean, it doesn't have to be that complicated to drop them out of one and you're not dropping them to 10. you're dropping them to number three. So yeah, they lose Kobe Bryant, Rick Woolen, Boye Mafé. And then the Eman Warrie injury is bigger than kind of probably any of those things where it's just, who knows, maybe he'll be fine. But, you know, did you, are you watching Hard Knocks, Deontay, or no? Haven't gotten to it yet. Okay. I just watched the first episode last night and Mike McDonald basically says as much.

1:18:52Diante Lee:They're like in a meeting with the medical staff and he's like, if we don't have that guy, It's like a big, big deal for what we want to do on defense. So, yeah, it's not us saying it. It's the head coach saying it. By the way, Mike McDonald just comes across as like one of the most likable NFL coaches of all time. He's just talking to players like a normal human being. He's just going to be easily the most normal person that has come across on hard knocks. Yeah, and listen, NFL coaches are not going to be normal people. But on the scale of NFL coach, it's just like, you know, he's like going up to them after a fight and like kind of talking it out and then like making, you know, joking around.

1:19:29Diante Lee:I'm like, what a breath of fresh air from a lot of the NFL head coaches we've seen on Hard Knocks or just in our lives over the years. So, yeah, episode one, Mike McDonald to me is, I already likes Mike McDonald, but he was just like the big, big winner, I thought, from having the camera on him for an extended period of time. I appreciate the fact that there's a coach who can embrace the fact that like yeah I'm kind of a dork about some of this football stuff like right I don't have to cosplay as like one of these historically great men right because that's you know the kind of you know rarefied air I view other football coaches in like yeah he's like I'm kind of a weird dude man kind of awkward I have to see some of the clips like I'm pretty normal I try not to you know he does a lot of the things that I think that you recommend most people who listen to our podcast do get outside you know, breathe some fresh air, try not to be, you know, a total slave to your, you know, cell device, cellular devices and, you know, just be you.

1:20:26I think that that definitely emanates. And I think that that's why they respond in spite of the fact that sometimes he is talking to the team and I'm like, man, I have to recalibrate myself because I am so used to, you know, coaches who want to give you the fire and brimstone. Oh my God, I have to, I got to inspire you to walk and chew gum at the same time. You know, like I appreciate the fact that he can kind to change gears for me and be a little bit more well-adjusted. Yeah.

1:20:51Diante Lee:He doesn't have to go like full tough guy, hard-o. Yeah, he is Jack Deontay. So, you know, he's showing off the guns. He's wearing the, I don't know what size t-shirt he's rocking there, but he's been putting in the work in the off season. So, you know, he's got that, but he doesn't have to show it off. So yeah, I enjoyed Mike McDonald quite a bit. I have them number two. Now from a content perspective, I think I should have had them one because then Seahawks fans could be like, no one had us one except for Shiel Kapati. I did have them one going into last year. Okay. So listen, I don't look at where I had their offense.

1:21:28Diante Lee:We don't have to talk about that, but I did have their deep. So that was one of the shots that I called last year. And I do put McDonald in that Flores mold. We're basically hand them anybody and they're probably going to make my preseason top 10 list. I mean, he's done it for consecutive seasons, uh, Ravens Seahawks. He's been first twice, by the way, in the last four seasons with two different franchises, which is pretty impressive. But just some of the talent there that they lost in the offseason. Again, we're not saying it's a huge deal. We're not dropping them to 10, 12, 15. We're just dropping them out of that top spot, which means, I assume, barring something, that would be the biggest surprise ever on the Ringer NFL show, Deontay.

1:22:10Diante Lee:I assume we both have the same team, number one, and it's making me a little bit nervous because I feel like this team is generating quite a bit of preseason buzz. Who is your number one defense? My number one defense is probably my favorite one to watch. Anybody who I feel like has followed my written work or what we talk about on podcasts, they know how I feel about this unit. It's the Houston Texans. Yeah, me too. I wasn't going to get cute here and throw Cincinnati or Dallas or some team, another team that has some hype because they added new players, but were overall bad the year before. Like this again, I don't have to sit at a pulpit and tell you, why Houston is great on defense.

1:22:47This is actually probably the one team that needs the least amount of sales pitching in order to get you to believe because they play a very straightforward style of football. It's four down, it's cover one. We are going to mash you, right? We've got better edge rushers than you have tackles. We've got better corners than you have receivers. And they just play aggressively in a way that I think scratches the itch of the linebacker in me, right? Like that's what I like to watch. I can just turn on the All-22 and be like, man, this is what it looks like getting 11 hats to the ball. This is what it means to fire out of your stance and put your hands on somebody, right?

1:23:21Like they check all those boxes. And the reason why they're number one for me over teams like the Rams, over teams like the Seahawks and the Broncos is because they addressed the one thing that I think would have kept them out of this conversation before. And that's adding fresh new bodies to serve as their depth behind their starters. This has been something that they really haven't had to concern themselves with because they've actually had a great stretch of health across their defense. Since D 'Amico Ryans has been there, but there's always been that question of, hey, if the wrong defensive tackle goes down, this is already a team that's not the greatest on a down-to-down basis defending the run, right?

1:23:56Or at least if there was a chink in the armor, it would have been that. They go out and get Logan Hall, 290-pound defensive tackle, you know, flex guy to be your fourth D-tackle, and right above him is rookie Caden McDonald, who was like that 320, 330 pound nose tackle, right? Like that's exactly what they needed. You look at Will Anderson and Daniil Hunter and say, we need one more guy who can play for us on rundowns and at least keep us stable in case one of these guys pull a groin or hurt their biceps. You go out and get Jadavian Clowney, who's like the ultimate mercenary in that, right? And somebody who you don't have to ask to go play 70 % of the snaps.

1:24:33He can just be a bit player for them. And then you go out you address a free safety spot with two guys, Reed Blankenship, who obviously for you, you know, being in Philadelphia and I know as an Eagles fan, doesn't always pop, but is rarely, if ever, in the wrong spot and typically finds himself making great plays because he just knows where to be on the field. And then Kamari Ramsey, who is, you know, a former USC Trojan who I've watched very closely and believe that he fits what this team likes to do really well. So up and down the roster. You just check every box in terms of having all the pieces.

1:25:05And then I think maybe the most important thing is outside of Seattle, LA, and Philadelphia, this is the kind of group and the type of play style that I truly believe will rise in playoff moments, right? And we've seen it. We saw them erase the Steelers offense last year, made it really a non-competitive game in spite of the fact that Houston's offense couldn't score. We saw them erase the Chargers offense the year before. They were the best unit on the field. You know, I would say on a down and down basis when they played the Patriots, it's just that their quarterback kept throwing the ball away to New England's defensive backs, right?

1:25:38Like they were one of the, they've been one of the best units every playoff run. They really just needed the support of their offense. Really most times you just get them like 17 to 20 points. It's not even like they've got to light up the scoreboard. I imagine that they're going to be very similarly positioned this year. And I think if their offense can keep this defense where it needs to be in terms of game script, they can 100 % ride this group all the way to the Super Bowl.

1:26:03Diante Lee:I think if you're looking at, hey, who's the version of the 2025 Seahawks or the 2024 Eagles where it's more the defense leading the way, they've got that formula. Now, whether that offense can be good enough or not, I do think that's a big question, but the defense certainly can be good enough. And I love what you said about just kind of the way they play. You know, we talk a lot about scheme and everyone, oh, too high. And this coordinator is doing that. When you talk to, I found this, at least in my experience, I don't want to generalize all, but when you talk to retired NFL defensive players, they're generally like you're over complicated.

1:26:44Diante Lee:Like defense is about inflicting pain on our opponent and having them feel, they're going to know on Monday when they played us versus when they played another team and having them think twice about when they're running that route over the middle or having that quarterback when he's holding on to that ball for that extra split second be like, I don't want to do that against these guys. And I really do believe that just from my time as a fan to then covering the league to then talking to defensive players. I like learning about the new schematic wrinkles and we're playing too high in zone, but I really do believe that that's what defensive football at its heart is actually about.

1:27:22Diante Lee:And I just think you can almost hear it. You know when you're watching a Texans defense play, you can kind of feel it. You can hear it. You can see it. The teams that play them, I'm sure, know during the week that we're going up to that game. This is not going to be a good time. Whether we win or lose, this is not going to be a good time when we face these guys. And that's what I really like about them more so than really any other defense on this list. And then, of course, the talent. I mean, listen, all these teams in the top five are just loaded. I thought before they signed Jadeveon Clowney, I was like, I think Will Anderson might be the most indispensable defensive player.

1:28:01Diante Lee:Yeah, load-bearing. Because they really weren't, you know, it was him and Daniil Hunter and he still is up there. But I was like, that Clowney signing made sense to me where it's like, all right, if he's out for a month or something, you can withstand it. Because he really is one of the most complete defensive players in the entire NFL. So you got the edge rush, you got the corners, you've got the personality. personality you've got the coach is just like you know they were second in pretty much every statistical category last year behind the Seahawks and I think they're going to be right up there again this year so the Houston Texans we agree are the number one projected defense in the NFL okay so we got let's see we got six teams that are the same Deontay we got Texans Rams Seahawks Eagles Broncos Ravens so six out of ten uh are the same you had the Patriots the Chargers the Chiefs and the Bills in the top 10 I have the Steelers Vikings Bucks and Colts in the top 10 so there you go I think this is good we didn't agree on all of them we agreed on you know top four so I listen I think most people are going to have the same top four maybe it's a little bit of group thing probably but it's also there's a reason by you would you You know, if you don't have them in the top four, I would love to hear what the analysis is for a team other than them.

1:29:23Diante Lee:And I'm not saying you're wrong. There's probably a good zag to be had out there for somebody. I got close with the Steelers, but I'm like, nope, I'm not putting the Steelers above any of these teams. So it'll be fun to watch. These are fun defenses to watch. Those are our top 10 defenses for the 2026 NFL season. Deontay, what did you say? You had a piece, you got a piece on the ringer.com coming up this week? coming up we're going to be talking about corners not necessarily a straight ahead ranking but I think that's something that people who like to debate this type of thing will really enjoy there you go defensive heads Deontay's got you covered there on TheRinger.com check that out thank you to Deontay Lee thank you to Christopher Sutton for producing Stefano Sanchez on video and additional production supervision by Connor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal I'm Shiloh Kapadi we will talk to you later this week on The Ringer NFL Show.

1:30:44Diante Lee:mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.