Sean McDermott's Out! What's Next for Him and the Bills?

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1:07Austin Gayle:Welcome to the Ringer NFL Show. I am your host, Shiel Kapadia. More coaching news, stunning coaching news. I'll call it stunning in the NFL. Sean McDermott out as the Buffalo Bills head coach. Coach, this is another one with league-wide ramifications. Who are they going to get to replace him and work with Josh Allen and finally try to get that Bills team over the hump and to the Super Bowl? Where does Sean McDermott land now with all these openings around the NFL? I've got some outside-the-box ideas with some of this stuff to talk about it. We've got my friend from The Ringer, Austin Gale. Let's take a break.

1:43Austin Gayle:We'll come back with Austin. The Ringer NFL Show is presented by FanDuel. FanDuel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to fanduel.com slash ringer NFL to get started. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut.

2:34Austin Gayle:All right, welcome back to the Ringer NFL show here with Austin Gale. We are breaking down this surprise Sean McDermott firing. I was thinking Austin that like losing to a non-Patrick Mahomes team broke these franchises. The Ravens, the Bills, they're like, no, we can handle it if it's just like Mahomes and Reid are awesome. But after a season like this, where we come up short, we got to make changes. So question number one here is, was this the right move? He's there for nine seasons. They made the playoffs eight times. They won 11 plus games in six straight seasons, yet they could not get over the hump and get to the Super Bowl.

3:09Austin Gayle:So if you're just taking a step back, all other things aside, and you say, was this the right move to fire Sean McDermott? What do you say? I feel like it's a bad answer, but I still feel like some of this is to be determined. I want more reporting to come out on whether or not they're interested in Joe Brady as taking over as head coach. He's gotten some, the offensive coordinator for the Buffalo Bills. He's gotten some interviews for head coaching jobs elsewhere. And then the other piece of this is like, who are they going to hire? It was notoriously going into the off season, a bad coaching cycle.

3:37It was hard to kind of drum up candidates. There's no Ben Johnson. There's no Mike Vrabel. There's no Liam Cohen. And, you know, easy to look at last year's class. It's like a really good crop. This year, you're firing Sean McDermott. I think one of the most overplayed narratives in this postseason is like, there's no Mahomes. There's no Jackson. There's no Burrow. You have to win. It's like, there's a lot of other factors that come into this. The defense. They were going in on the road. All this stuff. Like, for me, you're firing Sean McDermott really quickly after the loss, by the way. Like, you're kind of firing him right out of the weekend.

4:04Austin Gayle:Yeah. And if you don't have, like, already have plans on talking with Josh Allen on, like, do you want to keep Joe Brady? or looking at this crop of candidates and guys that are going to come in and win right away, right? The expectation for Buffalo is for this next person to come in and not just make the divisional round, it's go to the championship, it's go to the Super Bowl. I just don't know with this crop of candidates that we have, is that in this crop of candidates? I don't know. And I think there's more of a chance they look back on firing Sean McDermott with regret than there is a chance of like, man, we made the right move, it was a splash play, and we finally got, what everyone's also saying is, get over the hump.

4:38We finally got over the hump. with Josh Allen, I think that I feel less excited by the McDermott firing than I did necessarily the John Harbaugh firing with Lamar Jackson in Baltimore because there was reporting that John Harbaugh was committed to Todd Monken. He didn't want to move off of Todd Monken. And that was part of the reason. And there was less playoff success with Harbaugh and the Baltimore Ravens. And honestly, more of a string of playoff failure and catastrophic losing in the postseason where with McDermott, I always felt like, yeah, there was some other stuff and the defense hasn't been good in the playoffs or some of that.

5:09But with McDermott, I never felt like he was the reason they were losing games and not getting over the hump. And in this game specifically, Josh Allen crying in the presser, four turnovers, one of the worst games he's played. Like, I don't know. It just felt like they want to make a change to make a change. But I'm really interested to see, like, what is the road ahead? What is the plan? Because Josh Allen's 30 and the expectations are a Super Bowl. So with these crop of candidates, you're going to have to find a guy that's as good, if not better, than McDermott. I don't know if that's there.

5:34Austin Gayle:Yeah, during McDermott's tenure, like you said, second best winning percentage in the NFL. Only the Chiefs were better. They did get to the conference championship game twice. So it's, you know, it does feel like they were more consistent. They had more success, just a little bit more than those Ravens teams with John Harbaugh. I think the toughest thing here is like, you're trying to answer the question, why haven't the Bills gotten over the hump? Why haven't they gotten to the Super Bowl? Why haven't they won the Super Bowl? And it just hasn't been the same thing every year. You know, I think I could argue that in the past, I could make a case that Sean McDermott was a reason why, because you need a defensive coach who can stand up to the best quarterbacks and the best offenses in the NFL in a big spot.

6:13Austin Gayle:We always talk about it, that game plan type of coach, that he's got something cooked up. He's got something specific for this quarterback. McDermott hasn't been that guy. I mean, they've had games against the Chiefs where the offense has played awesome. I'm talking 90th percentile offensive performance, and they still lose because the defense cannot get a stop. We just saw that last year against the Kansas City Chiefs. We saw it in that 13 seconds game. as well. So you could convince me that they got to just get a better defensive mind in there. Someone who can come up with more wrinkles. But this year, McDermott did evolve a little bit and his defense was not really the reason why they lost to the Denver Broncos and Josh Allen had a bad game and their offense they made too many mistakes and we know why they lost that game.

6:54Austin Gayle:So it was different than the games in the past against Burrow against Mahomes. So I look at it and I think the similarity with the Ravens is you have an MVP caliber quarterback You have a Hall of Fame type quarterback and you've given it a chance for what? Eight years, whatever it is, with Josh Allen and you haven't been able to do it. So while Sean McDermott is a very good coach and he's going to get a chance elsewhere, we'll talk about where he might get a chance. I do understand the idea that is this the only guy we want to coach Josh Allen in his prime? You mentioned he's 30. That's crazy.

7:28Austin Gayle:When they mentioned that at the end of the broadcast, I was like, whoa, I still view him in my mind as the young quarterback who got drafted and it's maybe late 20s right now, but no, he's 30. So now you're trying to just change something up that gets you over the hum. So I understand it. I don't know. I'm with you. I don't know that it's necessarily what I would have done, but I do understand wanting to do something different here. From what I've read out of this McDermott firing, it did not feel like the players in the locker room were like giving up on Sean McDermott. And they actually like, there was a Deion Dawkins tweet where like really looking up to him.

8:01I can't imagine Josh Allen's leaving that game where he's crying at the presser saying he lost that game. He's like, we got to move on from McDermott. I wonder how much Josh Allen was involved in the decision when Steve Bishotti, the owner of the Ravens, was asked about that. He said he got his opinion from Lamar Jackson, but he had no power in the decision. I wonder where that power opinion split was with Josh Allen. I'm sure we'll get more reporting. And I think if there is one clear ding in the McDermott resume and something that I think is a credit to maybe why you do move on is when you look at, there are 13 teams since 2019 that have had at least 50 opponent drives in the playoffs.

8:33So 13 teams that have faced offenses of 50 drives or more. Of those teams, where do you think McDermott ranked in success rate allowed, EPA per drive allowed, and points per drive allowed?

8:45Austin Gayle:I think it's low because I remember those games against Burrow and Mahomes, and they were literally some of the worst defensive performances of the playoffs. I'll say 11th. 11th or worse in all three metrics. And like, yeah, some of that small sample size and all that stuff. But I do think there is real numbers backing the fact that the defenses did not have success in the postseason. like what you're saying, they didn't have this trump card against these really good offenses that make the postseason in the AFC. The Mahomes, the Burroughs, the Jacksons, or whatever it was. And I think that you want, maybe there is an upgrade at defensive schemer in this class.

9:14Is it Jesse Minter? Jeff Halfley just went to the Dolphins, so it won't be him. Is it Vance Joseph? Is it Robert Sala? Like, these are some of the names. Is it Chris Shula over the Los Angeles Rams? Maybe you do get a on-paper upgrade in schemer, but there's no guarantee that that person also coming in is the leader of men that I think Sean McDermott has been since he's gotten there. And I think he, in my opinion, if he isn't that schemer that is like changing the game, like Mike McDonald is and with Seattle, what he has done for me is he's constantly gotten the best out of his players, if not gotten more than what people expected in terms of on paper, the players that they brought in, like Christian Benford, Damar Hamlin, Taron Johnson, Micah Hyde, Jordan Poyer.

9:49You go back to some of these early defenses, like he, in my opinion, has like constantly made the players that the Bills have had on defense better than where they would be if they went elsewhere. And are you going to find that in this crop of candidates? I don't know.

9:59Austin Gayle:Okay. Okay. So this brings up an interesting dynamic to this whole thing, because you're asking the question, why was he fired? Did Josh Allen want him out? Did he lose the locker room? Did he botch their loss? And all those things, I think the answer is no. It doesn't feel like any of those things are true. And then we zoom out and we look at the politics of an NFL organization and you have GM and you have coach and you have owner. The owner ultimately makes the decision. and sometimes when there is a frustrating period like this where you're saying, man, the owner's saying, I have Josh Allen and I'm not getting there.

10:33Austin Gayle:Why, how come I'm not getting there? And Brandon Bean, the GM, is in his ear. We know how the NFL works, but I'm with you. I look at this team and it's hard for me to say that the talent level is so great that it's not a good coaching job. I mean, for all of McDermott's shortcomings in the playoffs as a defensive schemer, in the regular season, they have not had a bad defense with him and they have not had the most talented defenses. I mean, I look at the whole roster and I go good running back, great quarterback, good offensive line. What about everywhere else? I look at this defense and I go, this, this, where, where is the, where are the talented players on this defense?

11:10Austin Gayle:And he gets them to that level of competency every single year. I'm not saying they're great, but he gets them to like the 15th to 20th best defense every single year. And you look at some of Brandon Bean's moves and you go, should there be a more talented roster around Josh Allen on the defensive side of the ball? And so I do think that's a big part of this where the owner looks at it and says, who's responsible? And he might just say, well, I like Brandon Bean. Brandon Bean has been a confidant. I think he's done a good job. We're going to go ahead and fire the coach. So a lot of times in the NFL, that's certainly what it comes down to.

11:42Austin Gayle:So that's another big, big factor here. All right, let's take a break. We come back. You mentioned some possibilities. This is an Unbelievable job to get to coach Josh Allen at 30 years old and try to go win a Super Bowl for the city of Buffalo. I mean, this is a great job. We can talk about whether it's the best job in the NFL. I want to throw out some names there about guys who they should. This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. This January, quit overspending on wireless with 50 % off unlimited premium wireless. Plans start at$15 a month at mintmobile.com slash ringer NFL. Limited time offer, upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months or$180 for 12 months.

12:26Austin Gayle:Plan required,$15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra, initial plan term only. Over 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Capable devices required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. CementMobile.com to be looking at. All right, we're back here on the Ringer NFL show. So real quick, Austin, John Harbaugh, when he got the news here, do you think he had an idea that this job could be open? Do you think he has any regrets? Do you think he would have been a great fit for them? Because I do think that's a question that people are asking, and to a lesser degree, Kevin Stefanski, but certainly John Harbaugh going from Lamar Jackson to Josh Allen in their prime and basically trying to do the same thing, but in a different spot would have been very interesting.

13:11No, definitely. I think that it's hard to say whether or not he had win that McDermott could let go. It sounds like there was, you know, there was rumors going into the playoffs that he was one of the coaches that if they didn't go on a run, could be let go. You made that prediction. Yeah, yeah. Now I'm remembering on this show,

13:24Austin Gayle:you made that prediction that John Harbaugh is going to be coaching the Bills. So yeah, you were on it. I mean, and I think a lot of that too, whether Harbaugh would have been the fit, like him coming in as the CO coach, like it really does depend on who they're going to bring in it. Because then if you bring in Harbaugh, now you're going to have to bring in whatever defensive coordinator he's going to find, right? Or it sounds like he's committing to his guys. and then he's going to probably bring in Todd Monk. And like, I don't even know if Harbaugh would have been the right fit for Buffalo.

13:47I think what they're looking for is a defensive schemer that gives them an edge on that side or an offensive schemer that thinks they can take the top off with Josh Allen. But I think if I'm the Buffalo Bills, I'm much more thinking I have an easy button with Josh Allen. And it's worked with Ken Dorsey at times. It's worked with Brian Dayball. It's worked with Joe Brady. And I think we can bring in an offensive play caller that maybe isn't this big name. And I think he can find a way to make it work with Josh Allen, especially if they figure out how to, you know, keep the offensive line through for agency and maybe find a weapon like they had when they've traded for Stefan Diggs a few years ago.

14:17Defensively, they just need to be, if they're moving on from Sean McDermott, they just need to find a scheme edge with whatever candidate that bringing in. That's why I do think that probably atop their list is Jesse Minter, who I went and looked which of the coaches or coaching candidates has the most interviews. Right now, Jesse Minter has the most with seven. There are other coaches with six, other coaches with five. And seven head

14:38Austin Gayle:coaching interviews he's got? Seven heads. He's Falcons, Ravens, Browns, Raiders, Dolphins, Steelers, and Titans have all been either scheduled to interview or reached out to schedule an interview with Jesse Minter. And I think there's probably other ones as well that are coming down the pike too. I think that Minter is probably high on their list and someone that they think can bring in, like has this scheme advantage on defense and can do what they have. And then what Minter can bring in and they figure out the offensive play caller as they go. But I honestly, for me, if you're not going Minter, is there another candidate that even excites you?

15:06Halfway's already with the Dolphins. Stefanski's with the Falcons Harbaugh with the Giants like you could look at Clint Kubiak but like I just don't think they're an offensive play caller like if Kubiak is the offensive schemer everyone is kind of praising him to be or you know Matt Nagy or are they going to promote Joe Brady I don't think that's what takes this team up top like they really need to in my opinion if they're going to replace Sean McDermott figure out the defensive side of the ball and then trust that Josh Allen with the offensive play caller is going to be able to figure out and work through those work through new growing pains

15:34Austin Gayle:when you have Josh Allen we have a series of experiments that have been done, you know, naturally over the last, however, five, six years that everything else on offense, you can switch up the receivers. You can switch up the offensive line. You can switch up the play caller. You're going to look up at the end of the season and you're going to have a top five offense. The data just bears that out. So I'm totally with you. Like, I don't, I don't want to say I don't care who the offensive coordinator is. I don't think it matters that much. I think you have a bar to clear of competency. And then it's like, oh yeah, we have Josh Allen, James Cook and a top five offensive line.

16:11Austin Gayle:I think the offense is going to be okay. So I'm with you there. I think Josh Allen establishes a floor in terms of performance for your team. I mean, they, they pretty much win at least 11 wins every single season, unless you have some weird season where everyone gets injured or you lose a bunch of one score games, you're going to win 11 games. You're going to have a top five offense. You're going to be in the playoffs. So it's kind of, it is a very unique setup in that respect. And so I'm with you on Minter. I think that would be a very interesting hire. Somebody who could looks like he has the qualities you look for in an NFL head coach.

16:43Austin Gayle:And again, this is from afar. We don't know for sure, but he looks like he's got those qualities and also has the defensive acumen where you say, hey, he can be a guy maybe that can compete with those top quarterbacks in the AFC. So I like that name. You know, Brian Flores is a guy where I don't know if he has the intangibles and the other stuff you look for in a head coach. Obviously in Miami, it didn't work out. But if you told me Brian Flores is going to scheme up a defense and I got Josh Allen as my quarterback, I feel like I have a pretty good chance there to win big with the Buffalo Bills.

17:14Austin Gayle:But I'm going to advocate for a guy, Austin, who I have brought up previously. He has not interviewed for a single head coaching job to my knowledge. He is not working as a coach in the NFL. He has no coaching experience in the NFL, but I was thinking about this. I think you need someone who can ease the pressure a little bit because Sean McDiarmid is a very serious, intense guy. The franchise feels that pressure with every season. They don't get over the hump. The pressure mounts, the emotions you mentioned with Josh Allen are let out. And so I do think that's something you need to be cognizant of.

17:46Austin Gayle:I think I would call Fox analyst Greg Olson. And you can laugh at me if you want. And let's have this conversation. I see you smiling there. I'm not even kidding. If the Pagoulas called me today and said, she'll give me a list of someone I should call to be our next head coach, he might be number one on my list. Because I think immediately he's going to be great at game management. We hear him for three hours every Sunday. We know he knows what he's doing there. He knows the trends in the NFL. He studies them. That's clear anytime you hear him talk on a podcast, see him on social media or during the course, again, of him calling a game every weekend for Fox.

18:25Austin Gayle:He knows the personnel and the schemes around the NFL. I think he has a clear vision of what provides an edge from a CEO type head coach. Again, we see all these things every Sunday, like all these interviews and search firms. I watch him tell millions of people every Sunday. He's a former player who, by all accounts, is well-liked. I think he would bring a nice refresh to the team and to the organization. And the reason I'm bringing him up for this job specifically, Brandon B knows him personally from their time in Carolina. Now, I don't know what their relationship is, whether they're close, whether they're not close.

18:59Austin Gayle:I know towards the end of his career, he went there on a free agent visit, but there's some level of familiarity there. I think if you get Greg Olson as your head coach, he's going to attract great coaching talent. It's already a very attractive job. Now you say, oh, Greg Olson's not going to call the plays. I get to go call plays for Josh Allen. Yes, please sign me up. I get to go call plays for that defense. And I've got Josh Allen as my quarterback on the other side. Yes, I would love that. So I'm looking at these other names, like Jeff Halfley got hired by the Dolphins today. And I'm looking at Brian Dayball and Joe Brady and Chris Shula and Jesse Minter and Clint Kubiak.

19:33Austin Gayle:And I like Minter, but the other guys, I'm like, I don't think these guys would be better candidates for me than Greg Olson. Tell me I'm just some crazy guy who gets obsessed with people going forward on fourth down and I don't know what I'm talking about. Go ahead. I mean, I think hiring hiring, take Greg Olson out of it for a second. Hiring a guy who's never coached in the NFL before and never coached at the college level before to come in and the expectation is you have to win a Super Bowl. Like, the expectation going into Buffalo is you need to make the AFC Championship at least in year one.

20:05Is that not the expectation? You just fired McDermott for going to six straight divisional rounds. So you're going to bring in this coach who's never coached in college, never coached in the NFL and hey you need to make the AFC championship you need to make a Super Bowl in the next two three years that feels too steep for me like in it even beyond like say he is just the smartest person in the world a CO coach and he gets two really good coordinators to come in a lot changes when everything's on your plate and you go from yeah you're making these decisions in the booth to your game planning week to week for these quarterbacks and all this stuff like I don't know I think that like part of me feels that they need to bring in a coach that has definitely has experience coaching in the NFL and coaching at the college level because they're coming in with this expectation that you need to go have deep postseason success.

20:46And if Greg Olson comes in, and let's say by chance, which is very likely, they lose in the wildcard round or worse, they don't make the playoffs, his head is going to be on a spike instantly. Like almost instantly.