Texans' Dominating Defense, What's Next for Rodgers, and Wild-Card Round Winners and Losers!

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1:07Diante Lee:Welcome to the Ringer NFL Show. I'm your host, Shiel Kapadia. The wildcard round is over. Eight teams remain. The Texans took care of business against the Steelers on Monday night. Just a suffocating defensive performance. We're going to talk about that game, the ramifications, Mike Tomlin, Aaron Rodgers, how far can the Texans go? And then we're going to zoom out. Biggest winner and biggest loser from the wild card round. So that's what we're going to do. Hey, a little reminder. All these episodes are available on Netflix, so you can listen on Spotify. You can listen wherever you get podcasts.

1:41Diante Lee:You can watch on Spotify, but you can also watch on Netflix, which is really cool. That started this week. All right. My guest today, the Ringers, Deontay Lee. Let's take a break. We come back with Deontay. The Ringer NFL show is presented by FanDuel. FanDuel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to fanduel.com slash Ringer NFL to get started. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming.

2:20Diante Lee:Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut.

2:43All right.

2:44Diante Lee:Welcome back to the Ringer NFL show here with Deontay Lee. Deontay, I want to get to the Steelers and the Aaron Rodgers and the Mike Tomlin and all that, but we got to start with the Texans. And I have to admit, I'm a little conflicted here because on one hand, I watched that game and the defense was just suffocating. You can feel this defense through the TV where you're like, man, I am glad I'm not out there going up against these guys. Just absolutely dominant. They've been dominant. Steelers were trying those cute little screens, those cute little three yard passes. Those aren't going anywhere against this Texans His defense, Will Anderson, I mean, just flat out one of the best players in the NFL.

3:21Diante Lee:Don't need to do any other qualifiers. I think he belongs in that conversation. But then offensively, the Jekyll and Hyde of C.J. Stroud in this game where I'm going, are there like two C.J. Strouds and like his evil twin is on the field for some of these plays because some of the worst turnovers you will see. And then he comes back and he throws a dime. So their defense is going to keep him in every game. we know that but how do you kind of contextualize this help me what am I supposed to make of that Stroud performance and that Texans performance as we look ahead to their path to potentially getting to the Super Bowl it's funny I don't know what kind of corollary we can draw because you watch them play defensively maybe it is like the 2015 Broncos where like they're just going to squeeze the life out of their out of opposing offenses so often that it might just not matter right and i remember like paid manning was better in the regular at the start of that regular season than i think people remember because it got so rocky um and i think that that's that's probably the closest comparison i can come up with is that this might be a little bit of like early season broncos where the ceiling is there right like you see at times especially in the regular season not so much tonight um but you see at times when this thing is rolling they are able to distribute the ball really well especially when nico collins is available he draws so much attention it's opened up a lot of things for a Christian Kirk for, you know, Noel and Higgins, they're two rookie wide receivers.

4:47I think that there's a lot to like about them. It just does come back to, they have an efficiency down to down problem. And while they do have an identity, I would say that they're different from Philadelphia in the sense that like they do have an identity. There is just kind of a, you have no idea which version of them is showing up at kickoff. Right. And it does make it tricky. You know, it does make it tricky outside of their defense. So I think that their pathway probably is just going to be knowing that, Hey, we're going to force two turnovers a game probably. So we're going to have short fields.

5:17And all we've got to do is just punch it in when we get those short fields. Honestly, in a lot of ways, I'm sure Mike Tomlin was looking across the sideline like, man, I remember when that used to be us. He's had a lot of those games in recent years.

5:29Diante Lee:I think Tomlin looks at the other team and it's like, man, we used to kind of play like that. We would be the team doing this to other teams and we're not that team anymore. But yeah, I like, It's really hard for CJ Stroud to make more mistakes than he made in this game. I got five fumbles in this game. The interception in the Reds, he was just so indecisive. I don't know if it was first playoff. It's not his first playoff game ever, but first playoff game of the season. Jitters or what it was, but you're right. I don't know what to expect. I will say, other than kind of Stroud and the weird stuff with the snaps, like they ran the ball better than they usually do in this game.

6:06Diante Lee:I didn't think he was under constant pressure, which that offensive line is the big question mark with that Texans team. And I thought they held up pretty well in this game. And then like you mentioned with this defense, it's not going to take a perfect offensive performance. It's not going to take an elite offensive performance. It's going to have to be just enough. And they go to new England next week. And it's just, when you have that defense, like you have a shot against anyone. So now it's that defense against Drake may and Josh McDaniels. And maybe they got their first game jitters out in that game against the Chargers.

6:38Diante Lee:Yeah, I'm pretty excited for that game. Patriots-Texans next week. Sorry. The Pittsburgh Steelers, Deontay, where do they go from here? Yes, we're having that conversation once again. Where do the Pittsburgh Steelers go from here? They now have not won a playoff game since 2016. Since 2017, they are 0-6 with a minus 87 point differential in the playoffs. Five of those losses have been double-digit losses. So let's start with the quarterback. You know, I'm sure you were getting real emotional. They were making it really artsy on TV. You know, don't say anything. Just watch him shake hands and walk off Aaron Rodgers, maybe walking off the field one last time.

7:24Diante Lee:Is that the last time we've seen Aaron Rodgers? What do you think? You know, if you were watching the broadcast, I hope you had your volume up because as he was approaching the steps to access the locker room in the stadium, one of the fans that's right by, you know, kind of hanging over the bar, you could very clearly hear them say, Aaron, retire. And like a definitely broke whatever, you know, kind of sentimental mood that ESPN was going for as they're signing off on the game. And I did kind of have a, I did kind of have a moment where I was like, all right, guys, like he's already hinted that this was going to be it.

8:00This was an ugly lost i don't think you're gonna get the kind of emotional resonance on the way out that you would probably like to right if this was a hey this was 27 this was a 30 27 game you lost on the last second field goal but aaron rogers went out there and threw for 320 yards and two touchdowns and just came up a bit short then yeah maybe we're having a different conversation about man this old guy could still spin it against one of the best defenses in the nfl that's not what we saw and to me i'm with that fan it's just time dude like it's just time it's uncomfortable for me to watch your body just scrunch up the way it does when uh willy anderson and sheldon rankins are just you know meeting at the quarterback when willy anderson and daniel hunter are meeting at the quarterback so i do think that like it in pittsburgh's case as as they evaluate quarterback i know it's going to be uncomfortable because they're drafting outside the top 20 i know they're not going to have a lot of cap space to be able to go make moves for a veteran quarterback and And honestly, with the way that things are with free agency these days, you're not really going to find a starting quality quarterback in free agency these days anyways.

9:02So they're kind of stuck in the same no man's land that led them to bounce from Kenny Pickett to the next quarterback to the next quarterback and ultimately landing on Aaron Rodgers. And I think that in their minds, they would have liked to have left this season with a couple more playoff wins. So that way, if you're going to be a no man's land, you at least had something to show for it.

9:20Diante Lee:The Rodgers thing worked out better than I thought. I'll be honest. I was looking up all this stuff before the season going quarterbacks of this age. Don't even make it through a season. You know, other than Tom Brady, they don't start every game. Rodgers stayed healthy. They won the division. They got to the playoffs. That is, they, they exceeded expectations like Mike Tomlin always does. But as we look forward here, I just, I don't under, I'm kind of with you. I'm with the fan. It's just like, what's the point? What would be the point of bringing Aaron Rodgers back to this football team next season when he's 43 years old.

9:54Diante Lee:So I have a theory here, Deontay. Because I don't know if it's just he flat out retires and we never see him again. I don't know that it's he resigns with the Steelers. I thought Troy Aikman dropped a very interesting nugget at the end of this game where he said, you know, Phillip Rivers this year just kind of joined a team very late. And you know what? It didn't look perfect. It didn't look great. But Phillip Rivers has been out of the game for five years and it didn't look horrible. I mean, he certainly had some moments in there. If you're Aaron Rodgers, why? And you don't want to stop playing completely here.

10:34Diante Lee:Why wouldn't you do that over signing with the Pittsburgh Steelers and going through training camp in weeks one through four and then October? I mean, it is a long season. Why wouldn't you just chill? Do what you want to do. Stay in shape. see how the season goes. If it gets to week eight or week nine, and there's a Colts-like team that's playing pretty well and has a big division lead and maybe has a good offensive line, maybe has a coach who you always liked, and they don't have a great backup quarterback and their quarterback goes down, and then join the team then. I'm serious. I think older quarterbacks are going to start doing this.

11:11Diante Lee:I think we're going to look back at this Phillip Rivers thing, and there are going to be quarterbacks in the next 10 years. Not every year, but maybe every other year, maybe every three years, there's going to be a guy in his forties who just says, I can go out there and I can play a bun. You know, I can't do a whole season, but I can do a month. And then if we make the playoffs, that sounds pretty fun to me. Those were always the most fun games to play in. I'm going to go do that. Why wouldn't Aaron Rogers do that over just playing a whole season with the Steelers? I don't have a reason why he wouldn't, especially because like from a narrative shaping perspective, that would be just so perfect for Aaron Rogers, right?

11:48Like hired gun. I get to step in the building. They need me and everybody in here knows it. And I've kind of got enough freedom now because I'm the only quarterback in the building who can do what I'm about to do for you for the next three or so weeks. Right. That would be perfect. The issue with that is you'd have to find the connection, right? Like I do think for a 43 year old, he would have to have a coach that he already has a preexisting relationship with or somebody that he keeps regular communication with. So like the funniest thought would be like, oh, you know, Matt LaFleur gets traded to a place like Atlanta, right?

12:20And then, you know, they have a quarterback need and he gets to come in for a couple of weeks to close the season, right? To try to get them into the playoffs in the NFC. Something silly like that, right? Like that would be a funny idea. Or, you know, he's got to come in, Dak Prescott rolls an ankle and they have their wildcard spot on the line. Aaron Rodgers gets to step into AT &T Stadium and be, you know, old man, superstar quarterback to see if he can drag a team into the postseason. I don't hate the idea. And then there's part of me that's like the funniest potential outcome to me is that for him as a Northern California native that he's at home.

12:56Something happens to Brock Purdy. Mack Jones has been traded away. You don't trust your number two or number three quarterback. And now he gets to play for a shot. He gets to play for the team that was closest to his childhood home. Right. That to me, I think will be something like for Aaron Rodgers. He would probably love that more than anything. and he's with somebody like Kyle Shanahan, they probably would look at a guy like Aaron Rodgers and say, hey, whatever I'll give you in the headset, if you got a better idea, please go right on the head and do that for me. And he might be the only quarterback that would make Kyle Shanahan break his rule.

13:28But outside of that, man, I think you're done enough. You're a first ballot Hall of Famer, right? All-time leader in passer rating. One of the most efficient quarterbacks, the most talented physical quarterbacks that we have seen in this era. I think your legacy is totally fine. dude. It is okay. I want every quarterback to know it is okay to spend your forties doing something, anything else. It's okay. We can let you all go.

13:53Diante Lee:I don't think that's it. I think we see him again. I don't know if it's the scenario you painted, scenario I painted. I think we see Aaron Rodgers again. I don't think he's going to be finished, but maybe I will be wrong. All right, let's take a break. We come back and we get to Mike. This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum Business.

14:31So visit spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. Tomlin.

14:39Diante Lee:All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. All right, so Mike Tomlin is the other big question here. You know, there are currently eight head coach openings. We saw the Ravens call it with John Harbaugh. Is it time for a change in Pittsburgh? And again, this might not necessarily be the Steelers saying we are done with you because I think it's different than the Ravens. And I know it came down to like a kick, but even before that, it was like, no, Tomlin has kind of overachieved with this unit once again. But does Tomlin want to change? I mean, everybody on TV, I don't know if they're his agent or what, but this guy would get a job at TV very easily.

15:14Diante Lee:Does he find one of these other coach openings attracted? There are now eight openings around the NFL. Does he find the Giants appealing? Does he find the Miami, Atlanta? Is it time, Deontay? We've had this conversation every freaking year. It feels like with Mike Tomlin, is this finally the year or is it, hey, August rolls around, late July rolls around, Latrobe, Pennsylvania. There's Mike Tomlin holding court at Steelers training camp. I think it's the latter, man. I think it's the latter. I think that winning the, and this is to me can sometimes be the foolish nature of using one game samples, right, as a springboard for making long-term decisions.

15:56but I do think, I mean, winning the division with this team, right? With somewhat with what was poured into this team, making sure that TJ Watt got paid, making sure that Jalen Ramsey was traded for all these things that they have done to, I think, really try to maximize their opportunity to make the playoffs this year, knowing how hard they were squeezing on that one opportunity. If that was the metric, he met the metric. Yeah. I think you should, you should keep them. If that's what you were evaluating success on, right? If this was strictly a binary of do you or do you not make the postseason, then I think that he's done enough to keep the job for another year.

16:33I do think like and we were just talking about it with the quarterback and he is obviously a part of this process as well.

16:39Diante Lee:Listen, I'm making a pledge right now that when we get to our August Bold Predictions podcast, I am not in the year 2026 going to predict that Mike Tomlin finally has a losing record. I need you to hold me to that. I need to be held accountable. It's like a new year's resolution. I'm not doing it another year and getting burned. I'm staying away from that. You know, I kind of am leaning in the same direction as you, because I don't know that there's just that job out there. Unless of course the Ravens thing would be the funniest thing. That would be hilarious. But I don't know. Yeah. How would that even happen?

17:13Diante Lee:I don't think that's going to happen. But other than that opening, which that one's not going to happen. Where's he going? Where it's like this, an amazing situation. And your quarterback situation is solved. that kind of doesn't exist. And he's with a stable organization that he knows. And so I was just going to say, he does not strike me as a guy that would hit the coaching market and be like, I just want a job. Right. Any job would do. Right. Nor should he be. Exactly. I mean, you're accomplished enough to have a list of demands, right? I think that, you know, if you're paying attention to social media for our listeners, you probably saw that leaked supposed list of demands that John Harbaugh might have out on the market.

17:50Oh, I missed that. What are those? It was something like a$20 million annual salary, right? A$10 million,$10 million for staff. I was listening to, I was listening to my buddy, but Marty Jones talked about it. And I think that he made the point and it's a wise one that that might also be something that a team would leak. If you're really trying to, you know, draw in John Harbaugh and maybe spook off some other teams by saying like, Oh man, this guy's got this extensive list of demands as a coach that just got fired. But if I'm Mike Tomlin, I will look at that list of demands and say, If that's out there for me, then that's got to be what you, you better be bringing that to the table.

18:25If you want me to walk through the door and I'm going to have questions about ownership and personnel and what we're doing at quarterback, because he is one of the few, he is one of the few coaches that has enough tenure and enough accomplishments over the course of his career to say, Hey, you dropped me in someplace and just give me marginal competency. I am going to deliver typically a winning record. And we are going to go to the playoffs, even if we're not necessarily contenders. So it would be fascinating if they did make a move. But like you said, I think the most likely outcome is that he hangs out in Pittsburgh for another year.

18:57And if there was ever going to be a change, it would much more likely be that he is retiring because he's tired of going nine and eight. Then Pittsburgh moving on from him is kind of the way that I'm at. It's kind of where I'm at with it right now.

19:08Diante Lee:We're taking a break, you know, Bill Cowher. Now, Bill Cowher never came back, but you can take a break and you can come back if you want to. I mean, the TV life seems pretty, it's served Bill Cowher. Pretty cushy. Pretty well, yeah. Hey, you can go join that Bill Cowher, Terry Bradshaw. You can have the whole Steelers crew sitting together. That's right. So we'll see what happens. I'm with Deontay. I think he's probably just going to go back to Pittsburgh, and they're probably going to have a competitive team, but not a great team next year. And we're probably going to be having the same conversation at this time next season.

19:42Diante Lee:And there is the thing, I think Adam Schefter reported it, that the Steelers have to make a kind of a decision a year ahead. So not for this coming season. Yes, an option decision, I think, by March or whatever it is about Mike Tomlin for 2027. So that's why there's going to be a lot of leaks in leverage. And I mean, the coaching agents, I mean, kudos to them. They are doing well. They are working the phones this time of year. Yeah, nice job by them. So we'll see with Mike Tomlin. All right, let's finish with this, Deontay. Wild card round is over. who was the biggest winner from the wild card round?

20:18Diante Lee:It was a great wild card round. It really was. The primetime game Sunday and Monday weren't great, but other than that, a really, really good wild card round. Who do you have as the biggest winner from this weekend? Right now, I think I'd say New England was the biggest winner. I think to go wire to wire, dominance over a team that I think coming into the playoffs, I think everybody recognizes the flaw, recognize the roster flaws that Los Angeles had. But given the quality of quarterback, given the quality of the head coach, and I was definitely a victim of this as well, is like feeling like that game was going to be even.

20:53And I don't necessarily think that, you know, if they played that game five times, that Los Angeles loses by multiple possessions in each of those games. But I do think it says something that New England was able to step in and be able to just kind of take the life out of the Chargers as thoroughly as they did, especially in the second half. I mean, once they got up by a couple scores, They were able to hold the Chargers at arm's length. Their defense showed up really, really well, dominated in the trenches. I think that they have really found something with Ramondre Stevenson as a lead back for all the questions that have been kind of swirling around his career early because of fumbles and lack of production and all of that.

21:29I do think that they have found something now that's worked with him. I mean, quarterback Drake May does look like he's rightfully in that all-pro MVP conversation based off his performances, especially in those key passing situations. So I would say that they're the biggest winner for me. And then right behind them, I think would be, I can't even say the 49ers. I think it is just Kyle Shanahan. If I had to pick one singular guy, I think it's Kyle Shanahan because he put on a clinic in terms of offensive play calling, especially with the lack of playmakers outside of Christian McCaffrey.