The Browns Bounce Back Under Deshaun Watson. Is That Good or Bad? Plus, Week 4 Headliners

22:08He's been very productive. Cash is how who they drafted. It looks like they might have something there with the rookie. And then Dexter Lawrence is making plays on the interior. So we knew all along the Bengals defense doesn't have to be top five or top 10. It's like get to a level of competence and you're really going to have a chance to win a lot of games. I still feel the same way about Cincinnati as I did before the season.

22:31Sheil Kapadia:Did we ever get to the bottom of why it is that Trevor Lawrence was stopping at the one yard line with eight minutes left in the game? Because Liam Cohen, like flat out, is like, I did not instruct him to do that whatsoever. I don't know why he did that. Did anyone ask him? Why did he just decide to do that? I assume Trevor will talk today and get a question about it. He may have thought there was less time remaining than there actually was. That's my best guess. He was thinking, go down and run clock. And then it's like, oh, there's still whatever there was, seven minutes left in the game. Maybe not yet.

23:01Maybe too soon. Yeah, I think even after the game, he was asked about it. He basically said it was just like an error in judgment. He just kind of had a brain freeze and thought it was the time to do that. and then you look at the clock and everybody's just so confused. Like what is happening? Eight and a half minutes left. I think he might've joked that he wanted to get to some fantasy points for his fantasy owners as well. You really have to be careful in today's world of, you know, there's the gambling ads, like stuff like that. Everyone's just kind of like, wait a minute, why did that happen?

23:34And, you know, rather than it being just a funny question and this guy made an error in judgment, you know, ears are perking up like, Like, all right, let's just make sure that's all it was. What are we accusing him of here, Shield?

23:44Sheil Kapadia:This is very reckless. It's something I would do here. Listen, I'm just saying, no, not him. When weird stuff happens now, you ask different questions than you would have asked 20 years ago. I'm not wrong about that, am I? It's much more often in our world, just in general, even outside of sports, incompetence is more likely than skullduggery. Correct. However, we've seen some skullduggery, and that does, to your point, raise the antenna a little bit on unusual things that happen in the game. So let's take a break. On the other side of this, Billy, I don't even really know what Billy's going to do.

24:20He doesn't entirely tell us. He'll tell us the title of a segment but doesn't give us any more information. I can't wait to see what he's about to bring out right after this. The Ringer NFL Show is brought to you by FanDuel. Welcome to your most rewarding season ever only on FanDuel. How rewarding are we talking? More rewarding than an 18-point comeback may be even more rewarding than an O-lineman catching a touchdown. In this NFL season, that feeling doesn't stop on the field. Look out for the all-new FanDuel Rewards Club exclusive offers, surprises, and more. So every week, check the FanDuel app to see what's waiting for you.

24:58Make this your most rewarding season ever with FanDuel. Download the app to get started. FanDuel, play your game. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Nationwide. A football team is so much more than a set of players. It's a complete roster filled with depth and grit. It's offense and defense coming together to make something unstoppable. It's like how Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company. They're one of America's largest financial services companies too.

25:42Insurance and financial services together, that's a whole team in and of itself. Team Nationwide. For your insurance and financial needs, Nationwide is on your side. Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, member FINRA, Columbus, Ohio. So it is a Guillermo Miercoles, a William Wednesday. He remembered. It's Billy's bag of stuff. Billy, what do you got for us? What are you cooking up this week?

26:12Sheil Kapadia:Well, I thought you guys liked to be surprised on these. So I didn't think that you wanted the questions necessarily that we'd be going over. No, I like the blind. I'm just saying the premise of the segment never seems to match what we actually end up doing. So I'm interested to see. That's all. Listen. I'm as invested in this as everyone listening. I'm the host of this segment. I'm the Ryan Seacrest, if you will. All I can do is present the prompts. The way you guys choose to take them is entirely up to you. I'm just here saying, you know, on the next person coming to the stage in American Idol is Adam Lambert, if he was even from that show.

26:46Sheil Kapadia:I don't remember. Anyways, so this week, I cooked up a little segment called Correct Me If I'm Wrong. So this is, and I think you guys will like this because I think you guys often think I'm wrong. So this is how it's going to work. I will just give you a statement. I'll give you kind of like the news story that it came from. And then you will correct that statement if you think that that statement is wrong. Simple enough, right? I think we can handle this. I think I get it, Tom. I don't want to say I definitely get it. I want to let it... Let's start it before I'm sure I get it. But I think I get the basic premise here.

27:20You go first on East Shield. You set the tone. I'll play off you. How about that? Okay. All right.

27:25Sheil Kapadia:So I have four of them this week. So I'll give you four statements. We'll do one at a time. I'm not just going to give you four. That'd be wild. So give you four statements and then you correct me if I'm wrong. All right. So the first one, these are based on the news or talkings of different teams, fans on the internets and et cetera. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's time for the Giants to retire number 13. Why do I think that? They just released on Tuesday, Odell Beckham Jr. His comeback was more disappointing than we thought. He only had one target and 20 snaps, zero receptions.

27:58Sheil Kapadia:He's a Super Bowl champion, three-time pro bowler, two-times all-pro, offensive rookie of the year. I think it might be time for the Giants to retire number 13. He doesn't have the numbers to get into the Hall of Fame. I don't think any of us think that. But maybe Ring of Honor or maybe they retire the number 13. Correct me if I'm wrong. Retire the number. Okay, so I'm looking at it one, two, three, four, five seasons with the New York Giants. Now, we've discussed this before. For the young listeners out there, go back and look at what Odell Beckham Jr. did in his first three seasons in the NFL.

28:32It's as good as any wide receiver during my lifetime. His first, he was incredible. He was absolutely incredible those first three seasons. Then of course he has some injuries and maybe the rest of his career doesn't go that way. Now, I'm not sure, Billy, is it a long enough tenure? I would imagine if you looked at the averages of retired numbers in the NFL, players most often would have a longer tenure than just five seasons with a team. And the other thing that NFL teams run into, you can't just be retiring everyone's numbers. Because if you go to a training camp, they're searching for numbers.

29:09Guys are wearing the same number. You can't have too many retired numbers. So I'm going to correct you and say you're wrong on the retired number. I don't think you retire the number. You want to do a ring of honor? Go ahead. I mean, you could throw as many people as you want into the ring of honor. So I thought he had a great tenure with the Giants, Tom, but I'm going to say no. I don't know if that... Is that what I'm supposed to do, Billy? False. Wrong. You could just say wrong. Wrong. You're wrong, Billy. Okay. Okay, there you go. The Giants are in their 102nd year of football, and they, as much as any team, have a retired numbers problem.

29:45Even when they traded for J.J. McCarthy on Monday, astute observers noticed there were no single digits or numbers from 11 or 10 through 19 available on the roster. Until they released Jake Hayner and he vacated number 18, or as Jameis would say, nine times two, there was not even a number for J.J. McCarthy to wear. Giants retired numbers, okay? Ray Flaherty, number one, which they already unretired to give to Malik Neighbors with the blessing of the Flaherty family. Tuffy Leem, number four, Leemans, excuse me. Mel Hine, number seven, old indestructible. Number 10, Eli Manning. Number 11, Phil Sims.

30:27Number 14 is retired twice. YA Tittle and Ward Cuff. And number 16 for Frank Gifford. So that is seven numbers that are retired. And now in the era where you can have wide receivers, I mean, running backs, like obviously quarterbacks, You've got the specialists. You don't have enough volume. Having said that, Odell, in those first three years, if he had continued that trajectory, he would be a surefire Pro Football Hall of Famer. He would be sure to be in the Giants Ring of Honor. He may well be in the Giants Ring of Honor. I don't know if he's a Hall of Famer just because that position is so much based on longevity and volume because there are so many really good receivers that are not in the Hall of Fame.

31:10There's kind of a log jam in it. I don't know that he gets into Canton. I do think the Giants find some way to honor him, but you really do have a problem here. Unless the NFL, you know, goes back to the old days where you had quarterbacks were in like number 22. I just don't know how you solve for this, Billy.

31:26Sheil Kapadia:Well, I'm glad that you mentioned a lot of those things. In terms of the Hall of Fame, on Pro Football Reference, they have a Hall of Fame monitor, which gives you kind of like an idea of where they stand all time. And they give you like, this is the target number in the Pro Football Reference Hall of Fame monitor where average receivers or whatever the position get in. The number for an average Hall of Fame wide receiver is 101.73. Odell Beckham's number right now is 35.83. So they have him as nowhere near getting into Canton, which is why this question when I was cooking it up, I changed it from, is he going to get into the Hall of Fame?

31:59Sheil Kapadia:Because it seemed like it's not going to be close at all. I was like, these guys are going to think I'm a dummy. So let me shift from that. What do we do? Is there a Giants Hall of Fame? No, there's a ring of honor. Now, to your point, Tom, there's a lot of retired numbers. the Giants have 11 retired numbers. And Shield very quickly said, no, they should not retire the number 13. But Shield did not take into account that the Giants have in their ring of honor four-time Pro Bowl punter Dave Jennings, who also wore the number 13. So now that you have two guys that could potentially go in your ring of honor with the exact same number, do you pull a Ward cuff and a YA tittle and say, you know what?

32:41Sheil Kapadia:Too many greats have worn this number. It's time for it to go. Dave Jennings, Shia. We have a Dave Jennings reference on the Ringer NFL show. DJ, yeah. No, remember him. And Skulldugger earlier. It's a good episode. In the offseason, I'll give you my top 10 Dave Jennings moments, but I don't think we need to do that in season here. Now, my interest was piqued, and I thought about changing my mind when Tom brought up the idea of a family having to give permission for a deceased player, for a current player to wear a deceased player's number. That is interesting to me. I mean, I don't know if they always say yes, if you have to pass some kind of test, if they're like, I don't like this guy, no one's wearing great grandpa's number or something.

33:30So just in terms of the narratives in the NFL, the discussion, the content. Now I'm kind of like, maybe they should retire his number. And then five years from now, someone's like, you know, or maybe it, maybe it's 40 years from now, who knows? They're like, Hey, we want our son to wear number 13. And they got to go to some member of the Beckham family and ask them. That is pretty interesting to me, Billy.

33:52Sheil Kapadia:If that ends up with us, he can be yes or no. That's why I was changing my ears. I didn't want to get dark there. Yeah. The Bears and the Giants both have 14 numbers retired. The 49ers have 12. To me, I've always thought rather than retiring numbers, the way you do it is what the Cowboys do. They don't retire any numbers. They honor people. But then also you just have special numbers. It's kind of like college programs, right? Like your top recruit, you only give out number one to like the dude. The Cowboys give out number 88 if they think you can be the guy to carry that number forward that's meant so much to the organization.

34:26To me, that's more special than having it retired. You can never do it again. And then somebody's got to come hat in hand going, you know, I really want to wear number 88. Hey, Jaden Daniels kid, I really want to wear number five. Like, how's it going to go? I just don't know that that's, to me, allowing certain numbers to mean something to the organization where when you put that on, you're carrying the legacy. I mean, the 88 thing has worked out pretty well for the Dallas Cowboys over the course of time. They haven't won a Super Bowl in 30 years, But it's worked out pretty well to give it to a bunch of players who have been at various times at the very top of their craft.

35:00We're anti-triple digit, right? Anti-triple digit. We're never going to... How about fractions? Have to go in that direction. Would we like fractions? Somebody out there wearing number 1.5.

35:13Sheil Kapadia:Michael Irvin had an interesting point about that, that you were saying, Tom, about the number 88 in the Cowboys, where he's like, I don't want my number retired. because every time you see someone out there wearing number 88 and they're doing good things, they start saying Michael Irvin used to wear that number and they keep talking about me every time they see that 88. So as long as it's in circulation, they're going to keep talking about me. If someone can wear it anymore, they're going to forget about the number 88. All right. Ready for the next one? Yeah. Good start. Yeah. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we might be six years away from Cam Ward being the best quarterback in the NFL.

35:51Sheil Kapadia:Now, you're probably thinking, what have you seen so far that would lead you to believe that that's the case? So this is courtesy of at Sleeper Titans on Twitter. And we're comparing the first 20 games of Cam Ward and Josh Allen. Josh Allen notoriously got off to a rough start, lots of turnovers. So after 20 games, Cam Ward's rating is 80.3. Josh Allen's was 74.4. Cam Ward has 3 ,673 yards. Josh Allen had 3 ,700. 17 touchdowns and eight interceptions for Cam. 20 TDs and 19 interceptions for Josh. 60.2 % completed percentage for Cam. 56 for Josh. If we were to look at these numbers, are we potentially six years away from Cam Ward figuring it out and becoming the best quarterback in the NFL?

36:44You want me to go first again here, Tom? Please, Shield.

36:47Sheil Kapadia:I need to think on this one. Yeah, that's going to be a wrong again, Billy. 0 for 2. I'm enjoying the game. I don't want it to sound like I'm not enjoying the game. But 0 for 2. All right, so rule number one. This is for all the... I feel like we have a big population of young football analysts listening to this pod. Okay. Rule number one of football analysts analysis in the year 2026. do not compare anybody to Josh Allen. That is rule number one. His career is not one that you're going to look back and be like, oh, this was the next Josh Allen. Oh, Josh Allen did it. Our guy can do it. No, I don't think that's going to be the case.

37:26Now, could it be? Could Cam Ward improve and get better to a degree? Sure. I think the more likely scenario it feels like to me for Cam Ward would be a Sam Darnold-ish path where it's real rocky for a while. Maybe eventually he's got the talent. We know he has the talent. He gets to a different place. He gets in a different system situation and he has a moment. But here's the uncomfortable topic that Titans fans don't want to think about here. Okay, that's a bad football team. If the Tennessee Titans get a top three pick, number one pick, top five pick, they very well could have a quarterback decision to make in the draft.

38:08I know it's only three weeks. We're getting ahead of ourselves. I understand that. I think it's a bad team. And I just, that's something to keep an eye on. Maybe we revisit week nine, week 11, week 14, because that is kind of looming a little bit over this great 2028 draft class. But yeah, I'm a wrong on Cam Ward is going to turn into Josh Allen because who was it? Sleeper Titans?

38:28Sheil Kapadia:At Sleeper Titans on Twitter, yeah. Now I think, Tom, correct me if I'm wrong. We want people to engage on Instagram, Ringer NFL, right? Those are the people. I don't know that random Sleeper Titan. and we want to give this kind of pop, but maybe that's a note for next week. No, but it comes across the desk, and you want to give the proper credit to where it's due. Good attribution. Okay, I'm in favor of that. You said the passing stats, Billy, for Josh Allen and Cam Ward. I think it's important to understand the rushing stats are a huge part of it for Josh Allen. Josh Allen's rookie season alone, 12 starts.

39:04He ran for 631 yards and eight touchdowns. The following year ran for another nine touchdowns and 16 starts. Cam Ward, through his first 20 starts, has run for a grand total of 189 yards and four touchdowns. And that's not to criticize Cam Ward. It's just to say that's not really his game. He's a move around, buy time, in the pocket, outside the pocket, and throw guy. Not a Josh Allen who, one of the things that he did that covered up a lot of the things that weren't going well was, when in doubt, he could run over you. that the early, the very first flashball moment of Josh Allen's career, the breakthrough moment was, I think it was week three in 2018, and he hurdles Anthony Barr in Minnesota in an upset victory over the Vikings.

39:51It was like a shocking result at the time. But he had the, you know, they turned it into like a meme. It was like the Michael Jordan, you know, spread leg thing. Like that became the early Josh Allen. Yeah, he had to develop a lot as a passer, and everybody knew coming out that he had low accuracy numbers. He was under 60 % completion percentage. If I remember right at Wyoming, you were going to have to work with that. But he was this big fiscal athlete who could do freaky things with his legs and survive there while he was learning to do everything else. With Cam Ward, it's just not a tool that he really has in his tool belt.

40:21He's not the biggest guy. He's going through a growth process. I don't think 20 starts is enough to pass judgment on exactly what Cam Ward is going to be. He's got the same coordinator, Brian Dable, that had Josh Allen at a young age. There's just, there's a lot of, there's a lot of other things that Josh Allen was doing, even when he was turning the ball over a lot and not being the best passer that played into exactly what we see of Josh Allen now, which is a guy who scored more, had more games with two passing and two rushing touchdowns by far than anybody in NFL history. All right.

40:53Sheil Kapadia:So wrong on both accounts. Okay. We'll move on to the next one here quickly because we're going long. Correct me if I'm wrong. It feels too early to be flexing games. The NFL announced on Tuesday that the week five matchup between the Bears and Packers has been moved out of the second window, the 325 Central window, to the earlier window. This now clears up more visibility for Seahawks 49ers, and Fox's only other game in that window is Lions versus Cardinals. The earlier Fox matchups are Bengals Dolphins, Vikings Saints, and Giants Commanders. So correct me if I'm wrong, but week five feels too early to be telling teams.

41:29Sheil Kapadia:We don't want you in that second window. And then I'm also wondering, what is the message there? Is it we want all eyes on Seahawks 49ers or these teams a little banged up? We're not sure we want, you know, America to be watching Bears Packers today. Okay, so this wasn't a primetime game. You said this was a late afternoon window. Moved up. I think I'm kind of torn on this. On one hand, I'm like, well, you should just start flexing week one or week two. It's like if it looks like it's a terrible matchup, let's get it out of there. That one's a little confusing because those are two marquee franchises.

42:04I think the Bears have shown it kind of doesn't matter. Obviously, with Caleb Williams, they're a very entertaining team, but they just showed on Monday night. Without Caleb Williams, they're not going to fall apart. They're going to be a pretty entertaining team because Ben Johnson is a terrific coach. And I don't know what the reasoning would be to get the Packers out of that spot. You know, the Packers have a big following and they've got the quarterbacks healthy and they're a team that's won a lot of games. So I think you might be right on this because you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong, it's too early to flex games.

42:34I think you're right, but I don't know. Tom might have some more information on this. I think you're wrong that it's too early to flex games. I think that we all want the best possible viewing experience. The NFL certainly does. The networks certainly do. To me, my reaction on this was not that it was get that game out of the mid-afternoon window. it was get a compelling game into the early afternoon window. Cause you just mentioned the other Fox games, Bengals at dolphins. I mean, the dolphins are competitive every week, but they're competing right now to be the number one pick. You had Vikings at saints, not a bad game.

43:05I mean, the Vikings are three and O right now, but they don't exactly play at this stage. The most exciting brand of football. If you like to see offense and points, they're very much a defense driven team. And then you got giants at commanders with no Jackson dart. and depending on how Jaden Daniels comes along, he might be back for that game, but you have no guarantee that he is. Put Bears-Packers, the most played rivalry in NFL history, into that early window. A good chunk of the country will get it. To me, that actually makes a lot of sense. So it's almost a flex in, Billy, to the early window.

43:34Tom had a good explanation there.

43:36Sheil Kapadia:They're trying to own the day. Get us at 1 o 'clock and 4 o 'clock. Just don't switch off the Fox all day long. And you want a lot of the country to see 49ers and Seahawks, right? So normally you would have the whole middle of the country would have gotten, other than in Detroit, would have gotten Packers-Bears. Well, now they get that in the early window, which is the appetizer for the Seahawks 49ers game. I actually, I think it makes sense. Okay, you changed my mind wrong. What? Not too early, Billy, sorry. Not too early. Let's get Bears-Packers in that early window. It's not saying it's a bad game, get it out of a late window.

44:09It's saying it's a good game and our other games might not be very good. So let's let more people see Bears-Packers and then Seahawks 49ers. That sounds like a nice, a better afternoon in the Capadia household than the original. The only part I don't personally like about it, Ben, is because I live in Minneapolis, which means I will have the Viking Saints game and I will not have any way on the projector to have the Bears-Packers game. It does change my strategy, but my strategy is also usually driven by two minutes before the early kickoffs. I turn on the guide like, all right, so what games are on locally?

44:42Let's figure this out and go from there.

44:43Sheil Kapadia:Well, it will also be our second week of international, I guess our third week, well, fourth, if you include the Brazil game, but it will be the beginning of our Europe games as well, or the second week of our Europe games. So you'll have a 9 a.m. game that week as well. So a lot of football that game. Okay, fine. Last one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I were him, I might be insulted while still making eight figures a year. It was announced today by Andrew Marchand of The Athletic that Kirk Herbstreit has signed a multi-year extension with Prime Video to continue to be the in-game analyst on Thursday Night Football along Al Michaels.

45:21Sheil Kapadia:So Al Michaels initially signed a three-year deal and he goes year to year and he has said, I'll know when I'm done. So every year is kind of like, is this going to be Al's last? Kirk, I believe, signed a five-year deal to start and that one is coming up. They've now signed him to an extension. However, in that extension, Amazon has given themselves outs in case one of their targets, namely Sean McVay, becomes available. And if you remember, when we started with Thursday Night Football on Prime, they were hotly after Sean McVay, recently winning the Super Bowl, and they were offering him up to$20 million a year.

45:56Sheil Kapadia:So they signed Kirk to a multi-year extension. The details are undisclosed. We don't know exactly how much. We know that it's eight figures a year. But also, if Sean McVay decides he wants to come into broadcasting, we can get out of this, Kirk, and we're going to go after him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd be insulted if I were him. This is interesting. I had not seen that report, Billy. Okay, so Herbstreet gets the extension. Now, did it just say Sean McVay or did it say if one of their targets, like there could be other people we don't know about? It said one of their prime targets becomes available, but then mentioned Sean McVay being one guy they really liked the first time around.

46:36Okay. So insulted? No. Wrong. I would not be insulted when you're getting paid that kind of money to do one game a week on Thursday Night Football with Al. I would be like, okay, that's cool. Yeah, if you get one of those guys, I'm fine. I got my college games. I'm on game day. I'll be fine. But you know what? It's probably not likely. I think, I'm curious to hear what Tom's hearing on this or what he's heard in the past. But it feels to me like McVay is not likely to leave for the broadcast booth soon. I mean, they draft Ty Simpson. Unless he wasn't on board with that pick, it felt like they're trying to have this contingency plan.

47:17They trade for Miles Garrett. They've still got Stafford maybe for next year. We'll see. I don't know if he's tied to Stafford or not. But I wouldn't be insulted if I'm Herbstreet. I think that's fine. I am curious about sort of the buzz around McVay, how long he wants to coach, whether this TV thing is real or if this is a leverage play for McVay. There have been plenty of people in the league who think, you know, Sean wants to be there as long as Stafford is in LA. And obviously people connect the dots when you go all in the way that the Rams have in this offseason. You know, they were the lowest cash spend team for like five years.

47:55They do that strategically. So when they think they've got their window, all right, let's go for it now. That creates the question of, all right, if they go for it and it doesn't work out, now do they go back to, let's reset. We move on from the older players. Do we resign all these guys who are in contract years, including Puka? Do we let some of those guys walk? Like there's a lot of different things. And Sean, honestly, Sean's been kind of, you know, year to year for quite some time. I have no reason to believe that he's walking after this season. But again, it's week three. it hasn't gone great so far.

48:27You know, he has to make a decision. They're two vastly different lifestyles. He's got a young family now. I don't think that that's a thought in Sean's head right now. To the broader point of who else can be available, we know because of recent reporting, Troy Aikman is in the last year of his deal. It would be a get for a different network. Tony Romo, we don't know what the future holds. Billy Scott, I'm missing him. Greg Olson, I don't know where he is in his contract, but was, you know, very good as the number one analyst. before they brought in, before Tom Brady's deal began? Could he potentially be in play?

48:59And what other recent former coaches or players? Who retires after this season? Does Travis Kelsey slide into the booth? I mean, there's all kinds of different permutations of this. I mean, McVay, listen, I've known Sean for 10 years. I've been on production calls with him. I've heard him do press conferences. There is nobody who could just slide into the booth and be great from day one, more so than Sean McVay. with no training, with no practice, just step in and be able to go, Sean could do it. So the moment he decides he wants to be done, as long as there's a job open, he'll be the number one candidate for everybody.

49:35I don't know that that's right now. And I think that a lot of things over the next four or five months will kind of dictate what his plans are in the future.

49:42Sheil Kapadia:And I never thought we'd live in a world where we could have Tony Romo and Al Michaels in a booth together. I think Kirk Herfie does as great a job as anyone else. I think he's really good on the broadcast. Tony Romo just letting it rip without Michaels, they could get in trouble. Do you think the dog's in the contract? I was wondering, honestly, if the dog played into a factor for the outs where it's like, all right, this is our guy now. We had someone else we wanted. We have to deal with this dumb dog every single week running around here, making a mess of things, never on a leash. I'm telling you, Shield, we saw Peter at Super Bowl Radio Row.

50:17Sheil Kapadia:That's true. Completely wearing a credential, which how do you credential a dog? but wearing a credential, completely running around with no leash the entire time. Everyone's just petting poor Peter. It was a whole thing. But very well-behaved, I feel like, right? Yeah, yeah. Pretty well-behaved. Yeah. Okay. Well, you know, I'm trying to look and see, all right, who else could potentially go into the booth here? And it's hard to really find another guy who it seems like would be just as interesting. It does feel like Sean McVay would be very good at that. It also feels like if a coach tries that, they're just like, why didn't I do this a while ago?

50:53This is a great lifestyle. I just have to be, wait, we're just doing Thursday nights and I'm getting paid what? And I don't have to sleep in my office? Wow, this is incredible. But we know how coaches operate. They're wired a little bit differently. Gruden did it for a long time. I thought John, by the end of his tenure at ESPN on Monday Night Football was as good as anybody in the game. But he had that itch, man. He wanted another shot at it. He wanted another crack at it. And obviously some things happened that short-circuited his return with the Raiders, but he was ready for that moment. It's a different type of competitive thing.

51:28There's some guys who go there and never come back. Everybody kept, you know, Bill Cowher, I think we talked about this before, was still getting calls a couple of years ago when he came back to the sideline. Mike Tomlin will still be getting calls. It really depends on what you want out of life at that point. Do you want one more shot to go win a Super Bowl someplace? So you're like, I can make as much money here. Coaching contracts are big. I mean, there's coaches in the NFL making 20 million now. So I can make as much, if not more money, going to the broadcast booth where if my team goes on a three-game losing streak, people aren't talking about firing me.

52:00All I got to do is go talk about the game. Sounds pretty good.

52:03Sheil Kapadia:Well, and Sean McVay would be the most sought after coach every single hiring cycle. So if he decides I'm so tied to Stafford, I'm not sure about Ty Simpson or whatever it is, right? He can walk away, not have to deal with the growing pains and embarrassing record because they don't have the right players around him. And then as soon as a job opens up that he likes, he can swoop right back in and just take over a team. He's in a good situation. I guess it might just come down to what does he actually think of? Does he think he can win big with Ty Simpson in a short amount of time? Now, we're getting ahead of ourselves.

52:38Maybe if they win the Super Bowl this year, he's like, all right, I'm good now. I did it with Stafford. now is a normal time to walk away if they don't. And he's looking, because that's a long road, like to coach a guy like Stafford, who just is a problem solver on the field and then to develop. That's why I was so surprised with that pick. Cause I was like, I felt like McVay was just going to want to coach veterans his entire career. He wasn't going to want to go through that process of developing a young quarterback and the ups and the downs, even when they're good is very challenging. So that's why that pick surprised me so much.

53:09But yeah, Rams continue to be in a very intriguing team.

53:12Sheil Kapadia:Well, and his decision could now cost Kirk Herbstreet his broadcasting job. And what if he says, you know what? I'm not too fond of Al Michaels. And they say, Al, you're year to year. You're out of here, buddy. We need Sean McVay. He then becomes a broadcast killer, right? He comes in. He's cost the entire broadcast team their job. And not to be too dark here, but you go down that path where it's kind of like, all right, well, Al's not calling games anymore. How does he kind of... What does he do now that he's not doing that? And he starts saying like, oh, you know. And then boom, we lose Al Michaels.

53:43Sheil Kapadia:And then is he responsible for us not having Al Michaels around anymore? I don't know if you want that on your conscience. I just keep coming back to the dog. What do you think the dog's rooting for? The dog's... Listen, I think dogs like to just hang out at home. That's what I'm saying. I think the dog would be like, are we just get to chill here? I don't have to walk around. I see all this green grass. And you're telling me I'm not allowed to do my business anywhere out here. Whereas at home, I can just walk into the backyard anytime I want. Yeah, I have two dogs. You know what they do all day?

54:17Sheil Kapadia:They just lay on the couch. They don't like going in cars and places. They get super anxious. They always think we're going to go to the vet or to get a haircut. Anytime they're in the car, they're like, where are they taking me? I don't want to go there. And this poor dog, because I remember he had a dog before that, right? And the dog passed away. And he had like four golden retrievers or something. He just picked, here's a new dog. We're going to go with this one. And this dog's probably talking into the dog family over there. Like, what do you guys do all day? It's like, ah, you know, we just walk around, sniff each other's butts.

54:44Sheil Kapadia:We kind of have some snacks, run around, go to the bathroom. That's it. The TV's on. We watch TV. We listen to music, whatever. It's not that stressful. And he's like, man, I'm on private jets on Thursdays. Then I have to go to like Biloxi, Mississippi on Saturday. Then I have to get on another plane to go to Washington State to call that game. There's people yelling constantly. Yes. Everyone's blowing horns and waving at me. No one appreciates me. You know, NIL now in college is a big thing. Everybody's making money. These humans have this store where they're selling merchandise with my face on it.

55:14Sheil Kapadia:I'm not getting any of that money. I'm not getting any biscuits, any extra treats. That's all Kirk's money. When does Kirk get enough money? I'm with you. I don't know where we're going with this, but I'm with you. Should we go to a break maybe? Yeah, we'll take a break. We'll stop dunking on Herb Street's dog right after this. This episode is brought to you by Chevrolet. Hey, Chevy drivers need a truck that shows up the same way they do. That's why Chevy Silverado is number one in manufacturer loyalty, so they can go where others won't. Make their own way there and always get it done. And as long as Chevy people keep showing up, we'll keep building trucks that do the same.

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56:28Of all the quarterback injury storylines over the past several weeks, I would say the most favorable outcome, I guess, would be Jaden Daniels going down in a lot of pain, elbow dislocated again. What has it been? Ten days later, he is back on the practice field already. The team's in London ahead of their game against the Colts. He's out there. He's wearing, as I reported, it's a bigger brace than what he wore last year. He's getting some practice time in. I don't know, Shield, that he plays this week. I think there's a decent shot, if it's not this week, that it's next week. And for the Commanders, who won a game last week with Marcus Mariota, and that might be the best game Marcus Mariota's played in like five years, it gives them a little bit of light of, all right, if we can get through maybe one more week here, we got a guy coming back that for about the four quarters before he got injured looked a lot like Rookie of the Year, Jaden Daniels.

57:23Yeah, we were talking with the AFC North teams about some questions we had coming into the season and we're getting little morsels of answers. And the commanders maybe had more uncertainty or more change in the offseason than any other NFL team. When you look at changing coordinators on both sides of the ball, changing personnel. I actually thought last week, like the overall offensive numbers aren't going to blow you away with the commanders against the Seahawks. But I thought David Blau had some really nice calls in high leverage moments late in that game. They had a great screen that led to a scoring drive in the fourth quarter.

57:57They had two third and longs where one of them really nice run play picks up a first down. And the other one, to your point, Mariota keeps it on an option play. He gets the first down to clinch the game. Like that wasn't a given, you know, if they punt in that last situation, Darnold was really moving the football well. So it was kind of a lost thing, I think from week three, but I was like, oh, David Blau, those are kind of some encouraging signs here where now if you get Daniels back, maybe there is a more of a foundation with this offense than we thought a few weeks ago. So I just like watching Jaden Daniels play.

58:29It was such a strange injury. You know, his offensive line steps on his lineman steps on his foot and then he lands and you know, Tom Brady loses it and curses on the broadcast. I, I am happy that we get to see him play football again. And I just hope it's not one of these where we're like, Ooh, why did they bring him back? He looks really compromised. I hope he's able to at least function at a somewhat high level.

58:53Sheil Kapadia:I was worried when it happened that this is going to be like a more lengthy injury and that we'd be headed down the path of, oh, well, he's just never going to be able to stay healthy. Like this is going to be a guy. We saw how great he could be his rookie year. And now it's just injury after injury. One thing after another, we're never going to relive like that rookie season that he had. He's never going to fulfill his potential. So I mean, not the same, but like similar to like an RG3, right? Where RG3 kind of came out with Washington. And you're like, this guy's really good. And then he just kept getting hurt.

59:21Sheil Kapadia:And it's like, I hope that's not the case for Jalen. And then we were maybe headed that direction, but we're not, thankfully. I have a question for you guys about the other quarterback injury that was going around in Caleb Williams, where we saw him obviously get carted off. And it was like, wow, he's going to be out an extended period of time. And then the initial reports came back. It's like, this is a grade one strain. He's going to be fine. He'll come back. It should be only a couple of weeks. and then this week it came out like, oh no, it's like a grade two strain. It's more severe than we thought, but he also heals quicker than other people do.

59:55Sheil Kapadia:So we may not be on the same timeline as other people with grade two strains. He may actually be coming back. Am I reading too much into the idea of, okay, he left kind of like in an embarrassing fashion considering what it was that the injury was and now he's still not back from something that maybe he could have come back from already. So let's now say that it's more severe than it actually is. So when he comes back, he's actually this tough warrior that's persevered and his body just heals quicker than everyone else. Is that possible? Hamstrings are kind of a weird injury because there's some guys who have just chronic hamstring issues and they know how to deal with it.

1:00:31There's other guys like Caleb who, as he told the broadcast the other night, it was actually his other hamstring that he injured in college. So this was not like a re-injury. This is not scar tissue breaking up. It was a new injury. It's a freaky thing because you're going to feel something tearing and popping. There is pain. Now, his reaction to it obviously gave the impression that it might have been a major injury. It's not a major injury. Regardless, we can get into grades. We can get into timelines. It's going to come down to how does his rehab process go? Does he need to be 100 % to come back for the Bears?

1:01:04Or is it, all right, he gets pretty close, and we're going to kind of protect him with the game plan for a little bit here. Obviously, winning a game with Case Keenum helps. whether it's Keenum or Tyson Bajan this week, if you get another win, if it's not Caleb, which it could be, then that would also help. But this is a medical decision with your franchise quarterback, Shield. I know where Billy's going. Is this all like, are we just making up things to make it look like the injury was more? Bottom line, it's not a major injury. It's not a hamstring tendon of Vols where it gets ripped off. It wasn't his Achilles.

1:01:36It's a hamstring strain. Is it a mild one? Is it a moderate one? Is it between a mild and moderate? We're way down the rabbit hole with this whole thing. I think a lot of people want the narrative to be a certain thing with Caleb Williams. It's a real injury, and he's got to rehab it. He hasn't rehabbed one of these in like four years. Let's see when he's back. Could be this week. I'd probably lean against it based on what he has said, but you never know because he can get to the end of the week and be like, I'm feeling great, and Ben Johnson comes up with a game plan that allows him to play more from the pocket, and maybe he plays a little bit more on time than he has in the past.

1:02:10Yeah, I feel like, you know what? It probably hurt a lot. He probably was wondering, is his season going to be over or is he out for a few months? And he's upset. And maybe, you know, whether you want to call him a little dramatic or whatever, it's okay. It's not, you know, Billy, you never would. I'm saying people. I didn't do that. People out there.

1:02:28Sheil Kapadia:Sometimes minor injuries feel really bad. Like when you stub your toe, when you stub your toe, it's terrible. Yeah, it's terrible. So I think when he feels like he can come back, he's going to come back. he's going to play well. But Billy, to your PR point, actually Pete Carroll used to do this when I was covering the Seahawks where I swear, now I've never gotten this confirmed that this was their strategy, but I feel like they would give you a longer timeline for a player. This guy's going to be out, whatever. And the guy would come back early and Pete Carroll would get up there. And I remember him saying specifically, Luke Wilson, the tight end.

1:03:02I don't know if that name rings a bell. Yeah, good actor.

1:03:05Sheil Kapadia:Long hair. He'd be like, I don't know. like he looks like he's ready to practice this week. He's got Wolverine blood or something. I don't know how he's doing this. He would literally say this, but then it would be like a few weeks later and he'd be like Earl Thomas. I don't know how he's doing that. And it's actually, I felt like it was a very smart strategy. You're building up your players because you don't want to do the opposite. Tom, you've probably seen this too. Like the opposite actually. Why is he back? Why is he back? The agents get very annoyed by this. Players get very annoyed by this.

1:03:37You say, all right, yeah, he should be back in a couple of weeks. And then it's week three and he's not back. And fans are like, what? Why isn't he back? You said it was two weeks. Is he milking this injury? Is he unhappy about something? So the Pete Carroll school is a much better way to go for NFL head coaches. Maybe after this, maybe Ben Johnson will adopt that. He seems like a guy who's got his finger on the pulse of these types of things. He might adopt that in future years. Wolverine blood. He said it like every other week about somebody. I mean, my initial tweet on Caleb about the diagnosis was, it's not a major injury and they're not even ruling him out for Monday night, which is true.

1:04:13Ben Johnson went through the whole week saying he's week to week, not going to rule him out. He's not going to practice, but we'll see. Like, that's how they felt about it was, hey, we got an extra day. It's a Monday night game. Maybe, probably not. He's probably going to miss some time. But like, if he decides he feels good, you know, we'll talk about it. Maybe he'll play. It's going to be like that every week. I don't anticipate the ruling Caleb out for any game. They're going to, you know, kind of let the practice report be the only thing that they say on the topic. And then, you know, move along from there.

1:04:41We do know Baker Mayfield is going to be out for, according to Todd Bowles, at least three weeks. Which, again, if we're following Sheil on this, maybe you said it in three weeks. I could see that, actually. It's like in, you know, Mighty Ducks where the kids wrist heals. He's like, look, it's healed. I could turn the stick. And then all of a sudden they put him out there. He's got to regain the grip strength. The good news on Baker was no fracture, no tendon or ligament damage. But we've now got, Shield, Jalen Daniels, the undrafted rookie who's starting. They signed Brett Rippon to the practice squad to give him another arm.

1:05:15I do wonder, in the back of my head, as much as they've been very effusive about Jalen Daniels, they didn't try to go get a veteran, is this kind of like the Giants where it's, all right, let's get through this week, we don't have time, And then let's keep our eyes open for what else might be out there. There's not a lot. There's not a lot of starting caliber quarterbacks, but depending on how Jalen Daniels is able to function in this game, you have to think that they at least have a contingency plan, especially when if Owen three becomes Owen four, you have almost zero margin for error. I mean, they're already in a tough spot now because of the division they're in.

1:05:48It buys you a little bit of time. If they were in one game back. Yeah. You know, if they're in the AFC North or something, it's probably different or the NFC West, but they're hosting the Packers this week. I still think there's talent on that team. Their defense was excellent last week against the Vikings. I mean, they put Kyler Murray in a blender. And I feel like that is actually a situation where if you were able to get a veteran quarterback or some type of competent quarterback, maybe you can steal a game or two while Baker Mayfield is sidelined. Because just organizationally, they've been an organization where they're like, we're not punting on any years.

1:06:21We don't care that Tom Brady is out. Nope, we're still going to compete this year. once he retires. So I feel like they want to be in the mix. They're not going to be in a situation where they say, all right, let's just pack it in here. Now, maybe sometimes weird stuff happens and Jalen Daniels, maybe we get behind the mic on Monday and we're like, whoa, he was a revelation. That was a lot of fun. Is this one of the new fun characters in the NFL this season? It's not the most likely scenario, but weirder things have happened. So I think your process there makes sense. You give him this week. You just found out about the timeline for Mayfield.

1:06:54But if it's a disaster and if it's like everything else looks good, but the quarterback's holding us back, then maybe you think about making a move pretty quickly there.

1:07:03Sheil Kapadia:Well, and Todd Bowles is incentivized as much as anyone else, right? Because he's like the guy that everyone thinks is most on the hot seat right now. So he does not want to be wasting any weeks and potentially lose his job because of a Baker injury. One other injury situation to monitor, and I reported on this, I think on Monday, not only is JC Horn now officially on injured reserve and that's going to be minimum six weeks. It's a quad injury. It's going to be a while. He's still getting second opinions. Their other starting corner for the Carolina Panthers, Mike Jackson, also now on injured reserve.

1:07:35So you are suddenly down two starting corners on a Panthers team that has played outside of week one. Obviously, when they go 59, they've played pretty good defense this season. Adriel Overo, who's had to pull a rabbit out of a hat a number of different times because of different situations in Carolina, is going to have to do some magic here. shield because I don't know how many teams could withstand losing their two starting corners. And then, oh, by the way, playing a nationally televised game, Sunday night football against the Lions team that for their own issues in the secondary and their own issues on defense is still scoring every single week.

1:08:10That's a bummer because those guys remember that playoff game against the Rams last year. It's like, wow, they really have something with these two corners. They can play man covers. They can just match up against wide receivers. And the Panthers invested so much money in that defense in the offseason with Jalen Phillips and Devin Lloyd. And then even what was the first day of training camp, they lose Squarton, who had been one of their more productive edge guys. And now you lose both corners. So they're in a tough spot. There's no doubt about it. You really feel like they're going to need to get more from that offense.

1:08:40And they're going to have to be a more offensive-minded team that maybe just tries to feast and create some turnovers on defense. But they're just going to be undermanned here. at the same time, like you said, they played well defensively week two. They really had a chance to win that game last week against the Browns. But man, that Detroit offense has been legit. That's going to be a very tough spot for Carolina on Sunday night.

1:09:02Sheil Kapadia:Well, then they have the Eagles after that. And then you have the Bucs and maybe Baker's coming back then. And then you could be staring at a one and four, one and five. And it's like, wow, this season felt special early on through two weeks. And it fell apart real quick for them. If I may, before we go, the whole injury timeline, milk and injuries thing did bring this up. And if I may, serious, quick personal story with you guys. Because I think we all, you know, play in sports growing up, like you have various injuries and you remember kind of, you know, how it goes and how coaches would, you know, respond when you got hurt and what they'd say.

1:09:34I don't know like how this generation is now, but I've got a nine-year-old who's in the state fall softball tournament last week, right? 10U here in Minnesota. She has been hit by pitch more than I think anyone I've ever seen this season. She's now figured out my job is to get on base. So pitch will be inside and she'll just stand there and let it hit her in the leg. Well, this is now the state tournament. The other pitcher is throwing gas in one of the games. She gets smoked in the right elbow really hard. Fastball right in that funny bone area. So she's crying. The coaches are out there. Her teammates are all volunteering, all run for her.

1:10:15Coach's like, hang on, hang on. So I get out there. And I'm just like, you know, she's crying. I just go, Finley, where did it get you? In the elbow? She's like, yeah. And I felt it for a second. I go, guess what? It's not broken. Go run the bases. She stops crying immediately, gets on first base, ends up coming around on like your classic 10U game where it's like they pick her off third, but then the ball gets thrown into the outfield and she scores. Like she came around. They won the state title, but like I was proud. In that moment of just like we could, you know, coddle and say, oh, do you need an ice pack?

1:10:48Which somebody else might have said. And I'm like, no, go run the bases. You took a fastball on the elbow. You got this. I just was happy that I can ingrate a little bit of toughness in the early going. I have a follow-up question. So did she bat again in the game? And if so, what was her demeanor during that at bat? Because I find that's the toughest thing with softball and baseball, little kids. When you get hit once and it actually really hurts, then it's hard to get back in the batter's box and face the pitcher the next time. She came over after the Indian said, I'm not going to bat if I come up again.

1:11:21I said, oh, yes, you are. You're getting in there. This is the state tournament. This is your last day of the season. You're going to bat. She didn't come up again in that game, but the next game got up there, took four pitches, walked, got on base again. So yeah, she figured it out. I like it. Look at that. You got to do it. Now, if it actually were broken, I'd probably have a variety of issues on my hand, including within my own house. But I was confident based on my initial, the physical test on the field. I would say doctor dad can be tricky. We could, I remember when my daughter was younger and we were about to get on a flight and we're walking through the airport and she's like, my knee hurts.

1:11:58I'm like, give me a break. You need to, your knee doesn't hurt. But I'm trying to be like, all right. Yeah. Okay. And then we, and then we land in Philly and we get home and we roll up her pant leg and there's this like big bruise on her knee. And I'm like, oh God, I told her to tough it out. She actually had this big... So it's tough. I agree with the tough it out. Now, sometimes you're at a point of no return where it's just like, all right, they're trying to tough it out. It's not happening. But I think you did the right thing. But I am evidence there, Billy, that it can backfire. Yeah.

1:12:30Sheil Kapadia:In addition to Tebow, my daughter also plays soccer. And she's five and they're already flopping. Like the soccer flopping is already happening, even in the practices. At five? At five. Some of the girls on the team, not to put anyone's business out of it, the coach's daughter, who I think they watch a lot of soccer, has learned from watching soccer that, hey, if there's a slight bump, just lay on the ground, roll around screaming. And then her dad will just kind of give her a side eye, and she knows that's something. Okay, just get up and keep going. I'm not actually hurt. But I don't know what kind of...

1:13:03Sheil Kapadia:They don't call penalties at this age, so I don't know why she's even doing this, but she'll just roll around on the ground pretending to be hurt. does the coach watch the rigor NFL show by any chance? I hope not. Rate and review, please. I hope not. Cause I think he's a lawyer too. So this could be a lot of trouble for us. All right. We got to go. We're back on Friday previewing the entire weekend. We'll look back at that Thursday night game between the Steelers and the Browns. Thanks to all you for watching and listening today. Thanks to Chris, Arjuna, the whole team behind the scenes for Billy and shield.

1:13:32I'm Tom. See ya.

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