The Case for, and Against, an Eagles Repeat With Andy Greenwald

0:00Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Fun episode today. We have on my friend from the watch. I'm not going to try to say it like CR and do that. It's Andy Greenwald. But yes, it is Andy Greenwald. Why is he here? Because he is a sicko Philadelphia Eagles fan. And we're going to talk about the case for and against a repeat for the defending Super Bowl champion. And so Greenwald, you mentioned sports in Philadelphia all the time on the watch, but I truly don't know if people know the depths of your fandom. Like sometimes people are, they're kind of like you have thoughts on the fifth wide receiver, the swing tackle situation.

0:39How long have you been like this? Is this a lifelong thing?

0:42Andy Greenwald:No, I think I started to break around the 90s, like around high school era. The Ray Rhodes era was the one that felt like my own for whatever reason. And I started to get really, really, really into the team. And then meeting people like the aforementioned CR and like becoming very good friends with other sickos who let their emotional life be dictated by the behavior of these giant men really, really defined my 20s and 30s. And now that we have access to so much information all the time, I can really pursue my passion for alienating everyone else in my life and devoting it only to the Philadelphia Eagles.

1:18He's not lying. He has favorites of the mic'd up and the locker room videos. He's like, oh man, I love that guy. A guy who has not played all season long.

1:27Andy Greenwald:I'm telling you, losing Thomas Booker is going to cost the social media a lot. That guy was great on camera. All right. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back. I don't know that we'll talk much about Thomas Booker, but we are going to talk about the 2025 Philadelphia Eagles and whether they can repeat as Super Bowl champions. This episode is presented by American Eagle. Whether you're hanging out at home or headed out for a training session, American Eagle has you covered with a ton of new stuff. We're talking super comfy heavyweight hoodies and joggers that look and feel great, sweat-wicking active shorts that are good to go anytime, anywhere, new move-free jeans made from a crazy, comfy, real-looking denim and their biggest underwear collection of the year with striped, solid, and print styles to fill your drawer.

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3:31All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. All right, so Greenwald, here's what I did. I don't want to say it's like fanfic, but I did sort of write down a scenario, kind of paint a picture, tell a story about what it could potentially look like if the Philadelphia Eagles... do a repeat and things go well.

3:50Andy Greenwald:Sheil, could you just say that again slowly just to make me feel good? Yeah, well, you're going to feel good if they repeat. Yeah, you're going to feel good when you hear the first part. Now, the second part is going to be, what if things go poorly and the season goes off the rails? And then, you know, how do you feel when I go over that scenario? That's fine. That's the voice that's in my head anyway. So we're good. That'll be more comfortable for you. But we're going to start with the positive because it's a weird time in Philadelphia sports where people are positive. Sorry, all right, Andy.

4:20Here's what it looks like. A repeat, okay? All the concerns about the B and C level players the Eagles lost in free agency were unfounded. As were the concerns about the second cornerback spot and the lack of O-line depth. These turned out to be first world problems. Here's what people missed, Andy. Okay, the preseason analysis missed this. Usually in the NFL, the team with the best players wins. And guess what? But the 2025 Eagles, once again, had the best player. So offensively, you know, opponents went overboard to stop Saquon Barkley. And guess what that meant? That meant Jalen Hurts, your boy, connecting on bombs downfield to A.J.

5:00Brown and Devontae Smith on a weekly basis, throwing for over 4 ,000 yards for the first time in his career. Fresh off of a Super Bowl victory in a new contract, Coach Nick Sirianni abandoned all restraint and let his full personality show. Oh, great. During a week 10 win against the Packers, the Eagles scored a late touchdown on a tush push and Sirianni proceeded to moon the fans behind him at Lambeau Field.

5:28Andy Greenwald:This is against your Packers, your beloved Green Bay Packers. Okay. Do you think that is a disgusting act? Troy Aikman asked partner Joe Buck and the two cackled as the broadcast went to commercial. Defensively, Vic Fangio showed once again that he's the NFL's best coordinator, unleashing first round pick Jihad Campbell on opponents and route to defensive rookie of the year. Fans across the country screamed in unison, they can't keep getting away with this. Jalen Carter, Zach Vaughn, Quinone Mitchell, Cooper Dejean all earned all pro honors as the Eagles once again produced the NFL's best defense.

6:08Saquon Barkley's workload was managed throughout the season, keeping him fresh for a playoff run in which he ran for over 200 yards in back-to-back games against the Commanders and the 49ers. That set up a matchup against the Chiefs for the third time in four seasons. And the result looked almost identical to last year. After the game, Andy Reid abruptly announced his retirement. Mike Holmgren once told me, you'll know when it's over, Reid said. And as everyone has seen in these beatdowns the last two years, I don't got it anymore. Jalen Hurts was named Super Bowl MVP. Howie Roseman was given a key to the city.

6:47And at the parade down Broad Street, the Eagles were already talking. Three P. All right. So there you go. Your thoughts.

6:55Andy Greenwald:I'm going to need a moment. I should have brought a towel in here. That was borderline pornographic shield. Steve Sabal has nothing on you. This is NFL Films After Dark. I can't believe you. See, here's the thing. People, some people on the Ringer Network seem to think you're an Eagles fan. And I'm here to say, I take you at your word that you are not. That said, you still vibrate to some sort of frequency being broadcast deep in the heart of WIP because the fact that you also brought in the destruction of Andy Reid and the Chiefs, that is Machiavellian. That is true sicko behavior. um okay so what's my take on this yeah how does it sound are you confident in aspects it sounded amazing i feel like you underplayed will shipley for example i feel like he probably had a breakout season as well um since all the starters are being arrested in week nine isn't that what we're looking at here yeah um i feel very confident in a few of the things you said uh and first of all that is, I am going to be replaying this part of the podcast just to help myself sleep at night.

8:06Andy Greenwald:This is better than melatonin. I think the fundamental truth that they have the best roster and players who are on the ascent and not the decline is just true and kind of is a hindrance to the this time of year hot take machine. They are better, they are experienced, and they know how to win in a lot of different ways. When you're saying that Jalen Hurts is throwing bombs to A.J. Smith and Devontae Smith, part of my brain is like, and also Jahan Dotson and my guy Darius Cooper, because, and we'll get to this in the second half of this, I'm sure, the injury luck has to run out at some time. But where are they positioned to continue to succeed?

8:46Andy Greenwald:And the fact that they, at least in theory, or on paper, or coming off of last season, can win in a variety of ways makes me feel confident of some version of this beautiful, beautiful fairy tale coming true. Yeah, I do the, you know, because I'm in the local Philadelphia bubble, obviously, the Ringer's very special and just the, you know, friends, family, group chats, all those things. And it's like concern about, you know, the second corner spot. And then I do these rankings for the Ringer.com, which everyone can read, ranking all the offenses and all the defenses. And so as part of that exercise, I'm looking at every team's projected starters and depth chart.

9:24And I'm just like looking at the Eagles defense and then looking at like, not to give the cat, you know, I don't want the Raiders to catch a stray here, but I'm looking at the Raiders defense. And I'm just like, this is crazy. Like the, the disparity in talent between these two units. So yes, it feels very much like first world problems. Now anything can happen. We know that. But just in terms of like the talent and the talk about who they lost in the offseason, they're still I mean, even if you were critical of them, you would have you would say what the baby they have the third best roster in the NFL.

9:56Like, I don't think anyone would argue the 10th best roster in the NFL.

9:59Andy Greenwald:Right. And I think there's just a depth and a richness to that depth that is very rare, not just in the NFL, but certainly for fans of the Eagles, specifically at a position like linebacker, right, where we are very, very excited about Zach Bond, who I see the official accounts now referring to as the bald eagle. Do you have any thoughts on that? Like, I feel like I'm into it. Well, now, if I were an Eagles fan, I would want claim to that because, you know, both of us, you know, I think, yeah, I don't know. The bald eagle, is it good enough? I don't know if it's good enough. Also, we're only a few seasons removed from people mistaking you for Jalen Hurts.

10:34Andy Greenwald:So let's not get ahead of ourselves in comparing you to other members of the team. That was a high moment for me. Yeah, handsome guy. So, okay, so we have Zach Bond, all pro, signed to a new deal. We have Jeremiah Trotter Jr., who seems to be playing quite well, at least against the run. We have Jahad Campbell as the rookie. We have Smao Mondin, who your boy Jimmy Kemski was on just gassing up, just saying he's the best linebacker in the room the other week, getting me all excited before the preseason game. N 'Kobe Dean on the injured list. And then they're doing stuff like signing Chance Campbell, who I'd never heard of.

11:03Andy Greenwald:But then, of course, like the deep, deep sicko web is like, ah, another chess piece for Grandmaster Vic to deploy, even though he's clearly practice squad depth. So I think that there are a variety of ways that this could work that don't necessarily need to look like fielding 22 starters on offense and defense in the potential Super Bowl, which is very, very exciting. All right. I am not, yes, but the but has to come in here. The yeah but. Okay. All right. Let's take a break. We'll get to the yeah but. After that, the other side of the coin, what does it look like if things go wrong for the 2025 Eagles?

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12:20FanDuel, play your game. Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start. Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required.

13:07Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimfaya today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimfiaradio.com. In Connecticut. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show.

13:44Are you ready? Do you need a moment? You need to break. Now, this will feel more natural to you.

13:47Andy Greenwald:This is much more natural to me. This is how I've lived most of my life. Okay. The case against the repeat. Here it is. Yeah. Facing the NFL's third hardest schedule, this team just wasn't up for defending its title. Saquon Barkley coming off of a 482-touch season succumbed to the usual issues for running backs that have such a heavy workload. Minor nagging injuries and a decrease in effectiveness and impact. The vanilla passing game looked much like it did during last year's regular season. A.J. Brown and Devontae Smith were frustrated with the lack of creativity. Jalen Hurts once again didn't trust his coaching staff and offensive line injuries made the whole operation collapse.

14:30During a week two loss against the Packers, the Eagles scored a late touchdown on a tush push, which cut the lead to seven. Nick Sirianni proceeded to moon the crowd at Lambeau Field, following up on a dare from one of his high school buddies. But the Eagles ended up losing the game. Sirianni became enemy number one in Philadelphia, a spot that had previously been claimed only by members of the Sixers for an impressive 10-year run. It's true. Defensively, the new pieces in the secondary didn't fit as Vic Fangio cycled through four different starting cornerbacks but never found one that he liked.

15:06Zach Vaughn looked more like the non-factor we saw in New Orleans than the player who took the league by storm last season. Rookie Jihad Campbell struggled to learn Fangio's scheme and the lack of pass rush help for Jalen Carter showed up in a big way. The Eagles snuck into the playoffs with a 9-8 record but for the third time during Jalen Hurts' career, lost to the Tampa Bay Bucs in the first round. After the season, fans called for Sirianni's firing, and some even wondered if the offense would function better with Tanner McKee at quarterback. Just like after the 2017 Super Bowl, this felt like a franchise on the verge of a downward spiral.

15:48Andy Greenwald. All right, what felt real?

15:52Andy Greenwald:Well, just the sort of the mist of disappointment. That felt very familiar and actually quite comfortable. That said, I feel fairly confident coming on a podcast that you have no reason to invite me back on for weeks or months so I don't have to defend any of this. I think the first story is closer to the truth than this last story because I think that there are more things, I think more things are likely to go right then they are likely to go that very, very, very wrong. I think in terms of the sentiment and the mood, obviously you and I know our home city very, very well. But one of the main feelings that I have going into the season is not just confidence, but a kind of deep, deep feeling of relief that my beautiful best friends in green did it.

16:39Andy Greenwald:They won. They have the rings. They have the proof of concept that this can work and did work. And I think that it's a unique, It's a rarefied air to have this feeling, but I think you understand it from the Andy Reid era with the Eagles, which is one of the worst feelings is knowing you should win, but you don't, and you have nothing to show for it. And that's also the kind of thing we're feeling right now with the Phillies that probably maybe have missed their window with this team, but we are very, very much in denial about that and hope for the best. This team has done it. So I think that that does give both the fan base a little bit of a cushion to stop going, to not go completely over the ledge.

17:19Andy Greenwald:And I think that while the idea of an unleashed Nick Sirianni is a terrifying, terrifying image, regardless of whether his pants are on or not, I think that there is such a cultural buy-in to what he has been preaching because it worked that I don't think the wheels will come completely off, even if Todd Bowles out you know, masterminds him again. That said, I think that there are serious issues. You know, I mean, two things. One, you know this. We've probably talked about this either on the pod or not. Like, it usually doesn't look like it did in 2022, for example. Like, the type of dominance that some Eagles fans are getting used to is not normal.

18:02Andy Greenwald:And the glow of the confetti falling in New Orleans has already made people forget about the disaster in Tampa Bay in week four, or A.J. Brown being frustrated about the passing game just two or three weeks prior to that, right? Like, everything looks better in hindsight. I think a more spirited season, a more competitive season, a season with more numbers, a higher number in the L column is possible, but it really only matters what happens in the playoffs. Okay, but that said, I'm a little concerned about the number of spots where the, and I think there's good business sense behind this. You talk about this very well in Philly Special often, but there are a number of spots where Howie and Nick and everybody have to be like, okay, prove it.

18:44Andy Greenwald:We cannot pay someone else to do this job. It is your turn to do it. And the best case scenario for that is a Reed Blankenship or a Zach Bond of people who are completely unchecked, unnoticed and unheralded, and they don't just become replacement level, they become exceptional superstars and bedrocks of the team. There are a lot of spots like that currently. And there are some spots that I feel very, I feel kind of bullish on. Like I'm actually not as down on the rush as others are. I think that Jalex Hunt and Nolan Smith might do more than surprise this season. But cornerback two is terrifying to me.

19:22Andy Greenwald:That is a real, real problem and one you kind of can't scheme for, right? And so the number of spots in which they are saying, do your best in order to preserve this moment of cultural buy-in and potential generational dominance is a little iffy. Yeah, offensively, they return 10 of 11 starters and, you know, the new guard, Tyler Steen, looks fine. Defensively is where I think there could be a trickle-down effect because, you know, the teams we watched in the past, 2017 or even the Andy Reid teams, It was always like Eagles investing in the pass rush. Their pass rush is awesome. They're so smart to do that.

19:58That wasn't last year's team. You know, I think there's this idea that because in the Super Bowl, that's who they were. But for most of the season, their coverage was so good that it allowed the pass rush time to get home. And so now all of a sudden you have a new safety in there for Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, probably the rookie Drew Makuba. You have a new second corner who we actually have no idea who that's going to be at this point in time. If the coverage isn't as good, now you need more from the pass rush to your point and you need those guys to play better to maintain just kind of a high level of defensive performance.

20:31So that to me, if I was saying what's kind of the thing that could make them take a step back this year, I think that would probably be number one on my list.

20:39Andy Greenwald:That said, we're so, so spoiled because, you know, you go through the rosters of every team and we're circling one spot that we worry is like the beginning of a spider web crack that could break the whole glass of the defense. And that is the second outside cornerback. If I imagine with the work that you're doing, looking at every team, many teams, even successful teams have two, three, four spots like that. Absolutely. And the fact that we're not just saying, we're not saying this is the beginning of an issue because we have a B - player here and then just a B player here. We feel confident that we have A players on the other side of the field.

21:13Andy Greenwald:In Quiniano, we have an A player in the middle of the field. So these are rich problems, but they are concerning problems. And then if the pressure shifts, okay, the defense isn't as good as it was last year. And then the pressure is on the offense, which really should be one of the best, most efficient units in the league, but weirdly kind of hasn't been and has kind of been stuck in the mud at times, then what do you do? Can you win the shootout that other teams seem to be able to do? I mean, there was the ranking. You did this ranking, right, of offenses? Yeah, right. And where is the vaunted, like, all-stars returning everybody offense of the Eagles?