The Giants Need to Get Serious and Start Jaxson Dart, With John Jastremski

0:00Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Sheil Kapadia, joined by my friend today, John Jastremski, JJ from New York, New York, and the Ringer Gambling Show. He's got like 400 gigs. I'm not going to name them all because we try to keep these shows tight, but we have JJ on today because the New York Giants already, one week into the season, have a quarterback situation. And JJ, we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about where this thing is going with Russell Wilson, Jackson Dart. I got some takes. I got to fire off. But is this the biggest story in New York coming out of week one of the NFL season?

0:37Oh, yeah. No question about it. I mean, you could preach the positivity of what Justin Fields was able to do for the New York Jets. But with all of the optimism and all of the excitement that came out of July and August in giant land. And yes, Jill, I think this quarterback situation is constantly going to be under the microscope. And yeah, with the way the Giants played in week one, I knew it was inevitable that on my voicemail line on New York, New York, or all the Giants fans that see me in the street, you're going to get the obvious question. JJ, when we get Jackson Dorn. Yeah, we're going to talk about that and maybe some of that misguided optimism in July and August.

1:18I want to get to that because I'm very interested in how the Giants are covered both locally and nationally. as well. So let's take a quick break. We come back. We're talking Russell Wilson, Jackson Dart, and the New York Giants. This is the Ringer NFL show presented by FanDuel, and the NFL is officially back. So if you're going to be in it, be in it with FanDuel. They've got the goods, futures, live betting, SGPs, your way bets, all of it. The app's clean, it's fast. And yeah, when you win, you get paid instantly, which is nice because Sunday patience doesn't exist. So get your bets in, build something bold, and make every game feel bigger.

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3:14All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. So JJ, Brian Dables asked about it after their loss to the commanders, their uninspired loss to the commanders on Sunday. He doesn't commit to Russell Wilson. I start thinking this guy's making a change. He comes back the next day. He says, no, no, no, we're sticking with Russell Wilson for this week. What is your read on this situation? Why they're sticking with Russell Wilson? And in your opinion, is this a exclusively a Brian Dayball decision or are there other people there pulling some strings as well? All right. There's a lot to break down here.

3:47You got to go back to the off season. The Giants already had Jameis Winston under contract. There were plans of drafting a quarterback. They were the worst kept secret in the world. It was going to be a first or a second round pick. And then about a month before the draft, I'm on a walk and I get news that Russell Wilson signs with the Giants. So if that's the case, you got to figure that there's some wink, wink, hush, hush type of an agreement when Russell Wilson comes in that he's going to get a certain amount of time. Now, sure, what that is, I don't have the slightest idea. The Giants have not exactly detailed it to the media.

4:25This is exactly when you're going to see the youngster. But I was not of the belief that Jackson Doerr could go and take this job immediately. The Giants made it clear they wanted to at least slow cook them from the get-go. They bring in all these veteran quarterbacks. I was thinking that the earliest you'd see Jackson Dart week five against the New Orleans Saints, knowing, hey, at Washington, at Dallas, game against the Chiefs, game against the Chargers, but we'll get into how the schedule after the same game ends up having a whole lot of landmines. Now, your question about who's calling the shots here, I don't think it's a Dable-exclusive decision.

5:01No way, no how. Ownership is going to be tapped in on this. The general manager, Joe Shane, is going to be tapped in on this. I don't think Brian Dayball by himself is saying, this is when I'm going to Jackson Door. That's my read on it. Well, that's interesting because Brian Dayball's job status is my favorite thing in the NFL, JJ, when coaches and GMs are in position where it's not necessarily about team or division. It's about rule number one, keep your job and then figure the rest out. That's rule number one for coaches and GMs. And I look at this with Brian Dayball, with Joe Shane. That's got to be front of mind for them.

5:33And then ownership. I mean, if Russell Wilson turns in two, three more games like he did last week, we know the fan base. I mean, he is a very frustrating player to watch at this point in his career. So I'm very interested in who's pulling the strings. And then I look at Dable and I think he's an interesting character in the NFL. Jenna, and I want you to read on this before I give you my take. What evidence do we have that Brian Dable knows what he's doing as an NFL head coach? Are you bullish on him or are you more? Yeah, you kind of make a good point that maybe the track record isn't sterling.

6:06So it's interesting, Sheila. In his first year, I thought he was an outstanding head coach because I looked at the roster and I said, it's brutal. Daniel Jones was not exactly lighting the world on fire. He went to the playoffs. He won a playoff game on the road. And I'm like, OK, the Giants have their head coach. There's nothing to discuss here. The last two years have been atrocious. absolutely atrocious. I don't care if the Giants didn't end up with the number one pick. You watch NFL Football Weekly. I watch NFL Football Weekly. They were the worst team in the league last year. They were unwatchable.

6:40They were embarrassingly bad. I mean, that's the best way to put it. I don't know if that's grammatically correct, but I'm making it grammatically correct. They were a disgrace. I have serious questions on whether or not Brian Dable is a big time head coach. And I think his selling point to what you just illustrated is a thousand percent spot on. In order for Brian D 'Abel to go and save his job, Jackson Dart needs to take over at some point. I don't know if it's week five. I don't know if it's week eight, but Jackson Dart has to come in and sell John Mara, maybe to a lesser extent, sell Joe Shane, and most importantly, sell Giant fans on the idea, hey, we're not going to be any good, but we got a guy.

7:23And that's where this timetable to me is interesting because I think the obvious answer is, hey, get Thornton in there, sell hope, sell progress. After that same game, chill, they got two games with the Eagles. You know the giant history with the Eagles. They got a game at Denver against the Broncos. Top five defense in the league. Very, very tough place to play. And I know it doesn't get easier in November with the Packers, the Bears, the Niners, on and on we go. but I almost think you're better off trying to hold off until early November because if you go to Dart and he stinks and you have one of the worst records in the league, you may be ownership saying, well, there's no progress here.

8:02We have a top pick in the draft. I don't like my coach. I don't like my GM. We'll just take another quarterback. We'll do the Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray type deal, you know? So I want to make sure if I'm putting Jackson Dart on the field, he's not going to look like a guy who does not belong. I mean, I just have a hard time if I'm Dayball looking at this going, I'm going to stick with Russell Wilson until November. I don't care who they're playing. You know, like, can you find ways to put him in position to succeed? And what I find very interesting about this, I do think Dayball knows how to kind of work the media a little bit or, hey, you know, what do I want them to see?

8:36There's all this reporting that he's going on a field. We're on a side field working with Jackson Dart. Your colleague at SNY, Connor Hughes, tweeted, I was in the Giants locker room talking to Jackson Dart after the preseason game with the Jets. When Brian Dayball walked over, he shook Dart's hand, looked him straight in the eyes and just said, I love you. No emotion, no hugs, said it, then walked away. There's all this reporting. And I think Dayball's a savvy guy where he knows who's watching. He knows who's around. And there's all this reporting that Jackson Dart is his guy. And to your point, I just, he's going to get to a point very soon.

9:14I honestly, I think it might be this. I think a halftime out of these two. Well, listen, Sheila, it's not out of the question that they're down 20 to 3 to the Cowboys. Right. And he basically throws his hands up in the air and says, to hell with it. Let's go to Dart. Let's make him move around, shake it up, the whole deal. Here's the problem. I'm not suggesting that I'm a Russell Wilson believer. I'm not. That game against Washington, Russell Wilson had no chance. They had no running game. you take Andrew Thomas off the offensive line and I know offensive lines should not be this way. The giant offensive line without Andrew Thomas for the last four years, you take them out of the equation, they're the worst offensive line in football.

9:51They cannot run simple offensive plays without Andrew Thomas. That can't be. That's a major problem and indictment of Brian Dable and his offensive system and his coaching staff and whatnot. You got to be able to figure it out. But I I would be a little hesitant if Andrew Thomas is not going to be back maybe for another couple of weeks. I almost in a way would want to coincide his return with Jackson Darts arrival where it's like, OK, our offensive line is going to be the best it can possibly be. Hey, young buck, you're set up. Let's go. Yeah, that wouldn't be a bad move. We see it with tackles around the NFL.

10:27You lose that stud left tackle or right tackle and the whole offense changes. But this is where I come back to dayball and it's like this is what the money's for, JJ. I mean, I was looking up some numbers on him that are pretty alarming. Now, I know he had the good first year. There have been 204 head coaches in NFL history who have coached at least 50 games. Brian Dayball ranks 184th out of 204. An NFL hit, you should see the names next to him. 356 win percentage. You look at the last three years, teams that have won fewer games than the Giants. Patriots, Panthers. That's it. That's the whole thing.

11:02And then I look at week one and you got him drawing back and forth with Malik neighbors in the first quarter of a week one game. You've got Dan Duggan from The Athletic reporting that Brian Burns comes out to sub Abdul Carter out of the game and Carter doesn't want to come out and he's kind of giving him a little shove there. I mean, is it possible that Brian Dable, and this happens in the NFL, makes his name coaching Josh Allen, which by the way, nice gig to coach Josh Allen. And maybe he's just not the guy that a lot of people thought he was his first season. Well, the last two years would illustrate exactly that.

11:36And I think another interesting subplot here that came out of nowhere that I most certainly did not expect last Sunday is Daniel Jones lighting up the Miami Dolphins the way that he did. And I get it, Sheel. Indianapolis, better offensive line, underrated skilled position players, Jonathan Taylor, Michael Pittman. I love Ty Warren out of your school, Penn State. He's going to be the real deal at that end. So there's plenty to work with. But I'm watching Daniel Jones look like Peyton Manning, and I'm not suggesting he's going to do that against Denver and some of the other tougher games that are on his schedule.

12:11But if he ends up having a year where Indianapolis is solid and all of a sudden they're back in the playoffs and he's leading a playoff team and it's like the Giants are lost at sea, doesn't necessarily help Brian Dable's case, to your point. So, yeah, Dable's got a lot of things working against him. He's very fortunate he still has a job. The reason he has a job, let's be real about this, John Mayer doesn't want to keep firing coaches and general managers. He doesn't want to do it because he did it with Gettleman, he did it with all of Shermer, McAdoo. Since Tom Coughlin has walked out that door, the Giants have been an absolute you-know-what show for a decade.

12:50That's the reality of the situation. So I think he's kind of hesitant where it's like, I don't want to be doing this again. But if you have the wrong people in charge, you got to have that come to Jesus moment where it's not meant to be. Brian Dable wants to keep his job. He better hope Jackson Dart not just plays, but Jackson Dart looks the part. Yeah, it's like even if Daniel Jones just looks competent, that's kind of an indictment. He doesn't have to look great. If he looks like the 20th best quarterback or something, You didn't see that in New York the last two seasons. That's the type of thing that catches ownership's attention.

13:24And I totally agree with you. The Giants want this. They want to be seen as, hey, we're a stable franchise. Traditionally, we're not the Jets, which I want to get to here in a second. And I think that's the reason sometimes maybe they hang on too long. So let's take a break. I want to come back and I actually want to talk about how the Giants are treated versus how the Jets are treated. And you are the perfect person to ask about that. this episode is brought to you by google chrome you think you know a browser but gemini and chrome that's new it can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks gemini and chrome is here for it ready to make anything online make sense there's no place like chrome check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

14:13All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. I've been on this crusade, JJ. A lot of listeners of the Ringer NFL show, if you've been listening for years, you know, I've said this before, but I've never gotten to ask someone like you who works in the market. I think it's time we start treating the Giants like the Jets. You know, Jets get made fun of nonstop. They're a punching bag and a lot of it's deserved, but the Giants always get the benefit of the, oh, classy franchise. They know what they're doing. And every little thing gets hyped up with the Giants. I feel like Danny Dime, Tommy Cutlets thing, Brian Dayball after one year, Vince Lombardi, even Darren Waller last year.

14:46It was like, oh my gosh, he's going to take the league by storm. Even Jackson Dart this summer. But if you look at it, you said it. The last 10 years, teams that have fewer wins than the Giants are the Jaguars and the Jets. That's it. In the entire NFL, 10 years, the Jaguars and the Jets. They make the decision to pay Daniel Jones. They filmed the hard knocks and have the Saquon Barkley embarrassment. They go nine and 25 the last two years with Dayball and Shane. And then this offseason, JJ, all I read about, oh, the vibes are good in New York. And I'm looking at it going, they're returning 10 of 11 starters on an offense that sucked last year.

15:24And their quarterback plan is Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, and a second round pick. And you mentioned the coaching stuff. Since Coughlin's gone, last three coaches, Dayball, Joe Judge, Pat Shermer. I mean, these guys have won each one fewer than 40 % of their game. So they are like the same. I know it's different in the coverage and some of the stuff behind the scenes. But in terms of results for a decade, there's not a lot of difference between the Giants and the Jets. And I don't understand why the Giants seem to always get the benefit of the doubt and reasons for optimism and stuff getting hyped up.

15:55And then the Jets are just a punching bag. So what am I wrong about? What do you think about that? OK, there's a lot to unpack here. There's a lot to unpack here. So I want to give everybody context. I started, I've grown up in New York City my whole life. I am not a New York football fan. I root for the Miami Dolphins, in case you didn't know. But I can come at this from a fair, balanced, objective type of perspective with no rooting interest. I believe the Giants, because of the pedigree of the franchise and the two Super Bowls they won under Eli Manning and Tom Coughlin, were given this sort of goodwill that extended way too long, way too long.

16:37And I would say the point I really turned and started to side with you, because I would say my early years in the market, I would remind everybody, hey, this is still a franchise that's a couple of years removed from a Super Bowl. We all understand how hard that is to do. Eli Manning's record, Tom Coughlin's record, like you deserve that benefit of the doubt. that all went out the window to me when they dismissed Tom Coughlin and when they butchered if you remember the Eli Manning benching and I'll never forget how ballistic I went and I love Saquon Barkley I think he's a gentleman I think he's a class act he was a very likable guy and easy guy to root for that pick at number two by Dave Gettleman was inexcusable and made absolutely no sense for a team that was nowhere they were in the abysses of franchise and they're drafting a running back with the second overall pick.

17:25They never recovered from Gettleman. They never recovered from that decision. And I would say, for me personally, Shield, the last eight years, I have roasted the Giants in the same way that I have roasted the Jets. I think the difference among some of my New York media brothers is the ownership. Because they still look at the ownership, despite the pitfalls that John Mayer has made. Don't get me wrong. He has had a terrible run over the last few years, and he's associated with everything there is to be associated with the Giants. He's still presided over those championships. Whereas you look at Woody Johnson and his kids in the locker room, it's Rodgers, he's involved in everything.

18:10He doesn't get that same sort of benefit of the doubt. That said, the results, and if we're just talking about results, they've been equally pathetic for both franchises over an eight, nine-year period. Maybe a little bit more success for the Giants by smidge if they actually have gone to the playoffs. I know a little bar around here. It really gets dark and gloomy when you talk about these New York football teams and what I've been doing throughout my career. Just throwing that out there. We don't have the Philly, New England, Kansas City run here. We're used to a whole lot of coaching changes and draft picks and all that sort of mumbo-jumbo.

18:43But I do think your overall point about some media members giving the Giants a pass because of their prior pedigree is a thousand percent accurate. Yeah, and I don't even think it's just locally. I think nationally as well, the same thing. And you offer a good explanation. If you're a fan and with that ownership, you've won multiple Super Bowls, you remember those times. You remember how you felt those years, how excited you were when they beat the Patriots. That does count for something. It's a question of when does that grace period kind of end? Hey, we're seeing it with the Patriots now, aren't we?

19:17Like, it's interesting. The Giants obviously didn't have the amount of success that the Patriots had with Brady and Belichick. But I kind of think you're getting that same element, not to change the subject, but it's true where ownership delivered for you. Now they're not delivering. And it's like, well, do we want to blame them or not? Right. Yeah. No, there's no doubt about it. I think most, you know, I think every fan base, if you said Jets ownership or Giants ownership, they would take Giants ownership. I just look at it and, you know, you know, Jets fans, I got Jets, they're so sick. They're always the punching bag.

19:47And a lot of times they should be the punching bag because of ownership and because of the lack of success they've had. But then I look at Giants and it's always a different story. And it's always like, well, if they do that, I mean, I can't believe that they stuck with these guys. And to your point, I think part of it is they want that mirage of, no, we know what we're doing. We're stable. We're going to be patient. They don't want to be looked at as the impulsive ownership group that were pulling the plug too early. But if you're a fan, I mean, you tell me. You talk to how many Giants fans actually wanted Joe Shane and Brian Day?

20:19What was the split in your estimation? Wanted them back for this year to give them another chance? You know, it's interesting. I think there are a lot of Giants fans in my life who gave both a pass because of how sour and rotten the Gettleman regime was. And, you know, I think the proponents of Joe Shane are like, okay, they're trying to modernize the New York Giants. They're trying to do stuff that, quite frankly, was not going on with Shane or with Gettleman for a couple of years. So like scouting, analytics, a lot of that stuff that's really now coming to the forefront. You had some Giant fans saying, hey, let them see it through.

20:54Let them draft their quarterback because they inherited Daniel Jones. So I think that definitely played a part of it. But there were other Giant fans in my life who were like, I don't care. These guys are not any good. They actually wanted to give Daniel Jones money. That was a... Shield, them winning a playoff game and them actually making the playoffs, there's no question. Because in my heart of hearts, Shane and Dable probably thought they were walking in that first year. They're going to go 6-11, 5-12. Jones will not be the answer. Great. We can say goodbye to Jones. Maybe we trade Saquon Barkley.

21:31We blow it up. We do it our way. Then they go and make the playoffs and win a playoff game. And it's like, we got to keep the quarterback, right? Like we can't not keep the quarterback, but it killed them. Absolutely killed them. It's a great example of how people in NFL buildings, they a lot of times don't know what their team's going to do. I remember the Eagles in 2017, people in the building were like, hey, if we could take a little step forward, maybe win eight or nine games, that'd be a great outcome. And then they go on to win the Super Bowl. It's hard. Is that just me and you getting predictions wrong, JJ?

22:01It's people in the building. All right, let's finish this with a prediction. Jackson Dart is inserted as the Giants starting quarterback when, says JJ. Okay. I'm going to have to edit my early November prediction because I think the timetable has been shifted. And clearly, I'm not in love with what I saw week one against the Commanders. I don't care what the final score was. They should have lost that game by 25 points. Yes. I am going to say after the Charger game at home, it's possible it's the second half of the Charger game, but I'm going to say more likely week five, soft landing spot at the New Orleans Saints.

22:39Week five at the Saints. Jackson Dart. I'm saying this Sunday. Second half. Second half. If you're watching, if you're on the red zone or whatever, if you've got the quad box up for YouTube TV, Make sure one of those games is on Giants-Cowboys because I think they're going to get a surprise in the second half because I'm looking at, I was looking at the math here. So last 25 years, 24 quarterbacks have been taken in the second round and about seven of them have turned into competent starters, about 30%. So if you look at that in your Brian Dayball, you say 30 % versus what are the chances I'm going to be having a competitive season with Russell Wilson?

23:20I think it's lower than 30%. and your job's on the line. You'll like the kid. It seems like you like the kid. You can scheme something up with him. He's going to do what you tell him because he's a rookie. He's not going to improvise like Russell Wilson. They've already moved Jackson Dart up to the second spot, you know, behind Russell Wilson, ahead of Jameis Winston. So Cowboys have a pretty vanilla defense. They're not the most talented group. I think Dayball spends this week, he's just going on the side, prepping Jackson Dart a little bit. He's going to see how Sunday goes. And if they have a first half like they had last week against the Commanders, I think Jackson darts on the field after halftime.

23:57So what you're telling me is I should bet the Cowboys in the first half of this game. Yeah, yeah. That's what you're telling me. Might not be a bad one. All right, this was a lot of fun. John Jastrzemski, New York, New York. The Ringer Gambling Show. Consume everything he does on the Ringer. And like I said, his 400 other gigs. He's got the gift of gab. You will always be entertained. JJ, thanks for coming on. I'll be right back with the hurry. And now it's time for a special part of today's episode, The Hurry Up, brought to you by NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube. If you're an NFL fan like me, there's one move to make before the season kicks off, and that's subscribing to NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV.