The NFL's Most Trustworthy Defenses, With Mina Kimes!

0:00Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm Sheil Kapadia. Today we are talking about the most trustworthy defenses in the NFL. If you had to win a playoff game right now against a good quarterback, against a good play caller, which defense would you want and why? We each chose three and by each I mean me and our guest ESPN's Mina Kimes, the perfect person to have this discussion with. Did we pick the same teams? Did we pick different teams? Which teams did we have the hardest time leaving off? We talked about all of it. Let's take a break. We'll come right back and talk about the most trustworthy defenses with Mina.

0:40This is the Ringer NFL Show presented by FanDuel, the best place to bet the NFL all season long. FanDuel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live, and your way so you can build the bet that fits your play. And Missouri, get excited because FanDuel's coming your way December 1st. Download thefanduel.com slash ringer NFL to get started. Must be 21 plus and present in select states and 18 plus in DC, Kentucky, and Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Whether you're watching your favorite NBA team at the arena, the bar, or hanging at home, grab an ice-cold Michelob Ultra and enjoy every moment of the NBA season.

1:38Stock up today and watch your team drop buckets with a bucket full of ice-cold Ultra. Michelob Ultra, Superior Light Beer. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026, Anheuser-Busch, Michelob Ultra. Registered Light Beer, St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 plus to order alcohol. Alcohol available only in select markets.

2:06All right, we are back here with Nina Kimes talking most trustworthy defenses. We each picked three. We kept it a secret. We didn't tell each other beforehand. So let's go through them. Nina, you're the guest. So let's get started. Number one, the most trustworthy defense. Oh, man. Okay, I have to go one. Okay, we didn't talk about whether we... Okay, that's fine. I can do this. I also want to say, I want to preface this. You killed me with three. Because my feeling was I had a clear top six and then four I felt very good about. I'm sure you had similar... Yeah, but going from four to three was agonizing.

2:44And I went, I changed it multiple times. Here's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping that like the last two we were choosing between you choose one. I choose one. Everyone's happy. Everyone gets represented. Okay. Everybody will definitely not be happy. And you know what's also two of the four have like very vocal and intense fan bases. Okay. That's no one can rank those at the end. Yeah. The other thing I'd like to preface, sorry, I know this is really annoying. I'd like to say anyone who knows me knows I am not a homer when it comes to talking about the team. I have a number one. In fact, I have been wrong about their offense and critical of a lot of things that they do.

3:24But the defense of the Seattle Seahawks is not one of those things that I have been critical of. And they have not only been as impressive as I thought they would be coming into this season, they have gone above and beyond my expectations. Sheil, I would argue that their performance this week against Matthew Stafford, the Rams offense looking unbelievable, like unstoppable before, was the single most impressive defensive performance of the entire NFL season, and they lost. So the Seattle Seahawks are my pick for number one. I like it. I have them at number two, so I will reveal my number one after, but I think they have to be on any list of the top three.

4:05The way they're playing right now, the different things they can do. Yeah, I rewatched that earlier today, and it was like, man, the Rams could not do anything. thing. What did you find? Like, what was to you the most impressive part about that performance? I loved that they didn't panic after the first Rams drive because all week long, us NFL nerds had been talking about the Rams or the 13 personnel and the Seahawks match it with nickel and dime and will the Rams run on them? And they did at the beginning of the game. And you're watching that and you're thinking like, Oh no, like, and I think other coaches might've panicked and put linebackers on the field and Mike McDonald stuck to their identity.

4:47They tightened up and basically blank them from that point on outside of, you know, giving up some touchdowns and horrible field position. And I just think, I love that they know that they have an identity and they do a lot of different things out of it, particularly with pressure, but I love that they didn't panic. I love that they stuck to what they do. And I thought that was really impressive. Yeah. That was the story last week. How are you know, this, the 13 personnel, How are they going to match it? Greg Olson, just, you know, guy, he must have been just so anxious before the game. He was talking about it so much during the week and then did a great job during the broadcast.

5:21But yeah, I was looking at that. And to back up what you said, I mean, statistically, I think there is reason to believe that absolutely was one of the best defensive performances of the season. I was looking at it was the Rams worst success rate of the in any game in the last two seasons, that game. And it's like, we, you know, that's not the major talking point because of what happened on the other side of the ball. But it's good that we're bringing it up now because I just feel like I have a trust in Mike McDonald that like, if he's going up against a great quarterback, a great play caller, a great schemer.

5:52And you can kind of tell with the way like those guys talk about Mike McDonald, that they're like, oh man, you know, we, we kind of met our match with this guy that he's just going to be up for it, that he's going to be able to come up with a game plan. And, you know, they like to play a certain way. I think that there's a theme with a lot of these teams maybe that we'll talk about where it's like they don't necessarily want to blitz. They don't necessarily want to play man coverage, at least a few of the teams I have at the top. But in that game, they blitzed Matthew Stafford 46 % of the time.

6:21McDonald's highest rate in any game as the Seahawks coach. So I love that too, where it's like, well, if we do what we always do, are they going to have answers? Can we come up with a wrinkle without losing our identity? So it's like all those little ingredients I look for in a great defense. I feel like they've got it. They were blitzing on early downs. And I think McVeigh was, they were surprised by it because to your point, like there's, it's like that blend of like sticking to your players and your identity, but changing the way you use them, the way they design Mike McDonald designs pressure, I think is fascinating.

6:53He, it is, it's like watching an offensive play caller in terms of him. Like the, it's like McVeigh and the illusion of complexity. and like he's just so good at finding and hunting matchups on offensive lines. It's usually a four-man rush, but they're always like, this time Leonard Williams is at a wide nine and this time they're overloading one side and ooh, here comes Byron Murphy. And it's just, it's also like a testament to, we talk about this on iPod, like would you rather have one truly elite pass rusher or a bunch of awesome guys? And because that's what Seattle is, right? Like they got a lot of really good guys.

7:28And I think Leonard Williams is like actually, above more and better than that. But, and Murphy has been to it. But yeah, I think he'd rather have the depth that they have. I mean, the Eagles can speak to that certainly over the last, you know, in recent history. I think I'm with that too. I think in the past, you know, get me the one guy that you have to game plan for. And certainly there's a case for that when you watch a guy like Miles Garrett. But yeah, they've got six players with at least 20 pressures, which I didn't go as far as to say, does any other team have that? I don't think any other team has that this year.

7:58They're just so deep. They've got talented guys on the back end. The only reason, and I'll get to my one in a second, I had them second instead of first, is just I do have some questions just like corner. Is it definitely going to hold up? Which is, again, there are other teams where you can say the same thing, but do you feel good enough about them in the secondary or where they'll be in the secondary that they can be number one throughout the season? I do. I mean, again, they just went against the Rams, right? And those receivers. So I think Josh Jobe's quietly been really good for them this year.

8:30Wollin, as much grief as he gets, has actually played good football. And the safeties, I mean, Okada, you know, he had one missed tackle. It was kind of brutal in this last game. But I think at some point they're getting Julian Love back. I haven't checked in. I know it's not a season-ender for him, and that will certainly help. But they're pretty deep back there. And it is similar, again, where, I mean, outside of Witherspoon, who is probably the best corner. It's like, it's a lot of really good guys. They don't have a Sertan, but they just have gotten, they're fundamentally really sound. And that's what goes back to the Mike McDonald aspect, right?

9:05What did we see in Baltimore? Oh, second half of the season, they took a leap. And then the next year, they were the best defense in the NFL. It's just crazy to watch that play out again in the exact same way in Seattle. And man, that guy, he's got the goods. That's what I'll say. There's gotta be something with the way he teaches stuff because just the amount of different things they can do, the different coverages they can play, the way they can change it up. And like you said, it looks like everyone knows what they're doing. Sometimes I feel like that's the easiest way to judge a defense. Just like watch them.

9:35And is there a lot of like, you know, palms up after a big play? Or is it like, all right, you got us there, but we're getting back in the huddle and we know what we're doing. And for them, it just feels like most of the time, everyone knows what they're doing. So, all right, we got both got the Seahawks at two. All right, now it's my turn to just copy exactly what Mina says. Everyone who listens to this knows I'm not a homer. I will rip the Eagles offense. I will rip the coaching staff when I need to. I will not pick them every week. Maybe it's recency bias. Mina can call me out if she thinks I am being a homer.

10:12But I've got the Eagles at number one. Now, I legitimately think if I had to pick a defense this weekend to win a game for me, I would pick the Eagles. And I think the thing that gave them the edge, and again, it was razor thin comparing some of these teams, but I do like how battle tested they've been. They faced the hardest schedule or second hardest schedule of opposing offenses, Chiefs, Packers, Lions, Rams, Bucks, Cowboys. Like you go through the top 10 offenses and they've had above average offensive defensive performances in five of those games. And we've seen what they've done the last two weeks against the Packers and the Lions.

10:48So I've got the Eagles. I think their defense has been transformed by the Jalen Phillips trade, which I know you've talked about. N 'Kobe Dean coming back from injury where it was like, is he even going to play this year? And now he's so impactful. Jalen Carter being healthy. He was getting moved a lot early in the season where you're like, ooh, that doesn't look right. And now he looks great. And then I said the fourth thing is just Quinion Mitchell has just, he was already great, but he has like really leveled up. I think he's playing at an all pro level. So am I a homer? Do you have them in the top three?

11:18What do you think? I had them three. Okay. Yeah. So, and the other guy, Jordan Davis is having like such an unbelievable season too. I think like maybe gets a little slept on in that group. Well, I guess now I saw he was the NFC defensive player of the week. So it's not being slept on. The reason why I don't have the Eagles one or two is I think that they have such an obvious weakness. Yeah. And we're going to learn a lot this weekend because they have George Pickens and CeeDee Lamb coming to town. And when the Cowboys played them week one, they had Pickens and Lamb aligned mostly wide. I guess I should say what the weakness is.

11:55Eagles fans know it's obviously the third cornerback, Dory Jackson. And, you know, I thought he played really well against Detroit, but I'm also, that one, I think, had a lot to do with just Jared Goff completely, you know, emulating. So, you know, I think my issue with him and not is just, you know, okay, can defenses that have two really good receivers take advantage of that? Or offenses, not defenses, or me. And I think we're going to learn a lot from the Dallas Cowboys, right? Because they seem equipped to do so. Even last week against the Lions, I thought watching the film back, it was like they had opportunities to complete passes where it was, I think the Eagles are different than last year, where last year I really felt like the coverage was aiding the pass rush in a big way until you got to the Super Bowl.

12:46Then that was a one game different sample. But for most of the season, that's kind of what was happening. And this year it's the opposite. You know, I can just picture them having a meeting inside the building at the trade deadline. Like we could get this corner who's okay, or we could get Jalen Phillips. And Vic Fangio's like, all right, just get me Jalen Phillips. I'll figure it out with the Dory Jackson. I'll put the safety over the top. We'll play coverages in a certain way. But you're right. I mean, it's entirely possible that Sunday night we're like, Like, oh man, you know, they kind of got exposed there and there's only so much you can do.

13:16It does come down to one-on-one matchups and a Dory Jackson, if you face a team with two great wide receivers, certainly could have some issues there. So I do think we'll learn a lot about this Eagles defense on Sunday. Meaning what we should have done. All right, next time we share our picks before and I then could have gone Seahawks. You could have gone Eagles. We could have been covered and then we don't look like homers. I know. You also, dirty trick making me go first too, because. Yeah, that's true. I, you know, I act like it's polite, but it's just, it's for the content here. All right, let's take a break.

13:47We come back. So we both have two of the same top three. Now's where it gets tricky. There are two teams. I was flipping a coin. I couldn't decide. Let's take a break. We'll come back. We'll see where we landed. The Ringer NFL show is brought to you by FanDuel. Thursday night football continues to deliver and FanDuel's keeping the energy up with their$2 million Thursday night football jackpot. Place an anytime touchdown score bet using your profit boost. And if your player scores the first or last touchdown of the game, you'll earn a share of$2 million in bonus bets. Head to fanduel.com slash ringer NFL to download the app and get started.

14:25Fanduel, an official sports book partner of the NFL. Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky, or Wyoming. Opt in, must apply profit boost token on select market, prize pool to be split equally among all eligible participants who made the correct first or last TD pick, bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets, which expire 21 days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey?

15:07ZepBound Terzepatide may be able to help. ZepBound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. ZepBound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. ZepBound contains terzepatide and should not be used with other terzepatide-containing products or any GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if ZepBound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles.

15:46Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop ZepBound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia, if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking ZepBound with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

16:19Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbounce.lily.com. All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show. So Mina's got Seahawks 1, Eagles 3. I've got Eagles 1, Seahawks 2. Who is your second most trustworthy defense, Mina? I went with the Houston Texans And I went back and forth between them and the obvious team. This is Denver Broncos. And I, going into this season, had the Broncos as my number one defense in football. And they're absolutely capable of being the number one.

17:06And this is coming off of like a brilliant game plan against Patrick Mahone. I'm making this more about the Broncos than the Texans. These four are all so neck and neck to me. Yeah. Top tier, I think. I don't think any of them are separated from the other. Like they are all right there. I like the Seahawks are not significantly better than the Texans and the Eagles and the Broncos. Let me talk about the Texans. So I think for me, it's just the talent. I can't, first of all, I think they're really well coached. D 'Amico Ryans is really, really, really good. All these four have really good defensive coaches.

17:42Vance Joseph's been awesome too. But I just can't get over that pass rush and those two pass rushers and Will Adams Jr. and Dino Hunter. And then the secondary too. Like I, you know, we talk about, like there's not weaknesses. Like I'm, you know, I was talking about Philadelphia. There's an obvious one. And we could talk about Denver. Maybe Denver's your number two. We'll see. But I just don't, maybe linebacker, maybe they're just so good and so stacked. And this is reflected. I mean, they are third in DVOA, first against the pass this year. They're doing all this despite very up and down offensive performances.

18:25Yeah, I just, when you watch them on tape, Sheil, I mean, they play out of their minds. They fly to the football. They're relentless in the pass rush. They're just so talented. That's the big thing. And it's been the case for two years where you just watch them and you're like, they are old school. Like we want to inflict pain on the opponent on every single play. Now, sometimes that, you know, gets certain players on their defense. into trouble. But overall, that is a good defensive identity to have. So, all right, we're going to get killed by Broncos fans because I got the Texans in the top three as well.

18:59I mean, it really did come down to me. It comes down, you know, the pass rush, like you mentioned, you have Will Anderson and Daniil Hunter, like two of what the top eight, top 10 pass rushers in the NFL this year. And then the way they cover, like, I do think you can make the case that just with Stingley and Lassiter and the way they're coached, I think that gives them an edge on almost any other day. And they're battle tested. Actually, this was really the tiebreaker to me. And you're right. Vance Joseph has done an awesome job this year. He did a very good job on Sunday against the Chiefs in those high leverage spots.

19:32D 'Amico Ryan's resume is just longer against great quarterbacks and great offenses. He's done it in playoff games. He's done it against Josh Allen and other quarterbacks last year, where I feel like they're not going to level down when the competition is better. And so I've just seen more of that with the Texans and with D 'Amico Ryan. So that's really what, for me, gave them the slight edge over the Broncos. I think, too, the Broncos' secondary is good. McMillan's been awesome. Barron in spots. Obviously, Sertan, when he plays, is maybe the best quarterback in the NFL. But, you know, I'm not like a Riley Moss hater by any means.

20:14I'm so divisive, by the way, in Broncos world. But, and I think he's better than significantly, he's certainly better than Adoree Jackson. But, you know, you know what to do when you play this. Like, right? Like, it's, and as much as improved as the linebackers are, and they really have improved, there have been games where you can see teams take advantage of that. So, you know, I like, I think about this a lot just from like, okay, when I'm playing these defenses, what's the plan? What are you attacking? Philly, I know what it is. Denver, I can come up with stuff. For me, it was Seattle and Houston.

20:49I was like, I don't know. Like, I'm really not sure what to do here. And so I think that's ultimately, but like I said, neck and neck, top four, very, very close. The other thing with the Broncos, I would say is just if you look at kind of who they've played and I don't want to be, oh, they haven't played anybody type thing. They just beat the Chiefs. I get it. And they played really well against the Chiefs. Just statistically, I was like sorting by above average performances just by like EPA per drive. And their above average performances have come against the Jets, Raiders, Titans, Bengals, Texans, and Eagles.

21:24Even that Chiefs game actually didn't qualify for it, where if you look at it, you're like, all right, The Chiefs got what inside their 25. What was it? Five times. They settle for field goals twice. They have a turnover there. That's not taking anything away from Denver. They like, you need to win those high leverage downs when you're facing a quarterback like Patrick Mahomes. But I just looked at it. You know, the Colts had a pretty good game against them. Giants had a good game. It doesn't mean they stink or I don't believe in them, but just as sort of the tiebreaker, I was like, all right, good, great quarterback this weekend.

21:55Like I have to pick who am I picking? that also gave them a little bit of the edge for me. Yeah. I had a top six. Okay. Yeah. So this is the portion of which fan bases will be most upset. I don't think any, the Broncos would be the maddest. I don't think anyone else deserves to be mad at us for our top three. I think the Broncos fans can make a case, but otherwise I don't think so. But there were two teams. I do think there's a clear top six right now. And the other two teams I had are the Lions and the Rams. no Browns in there I had the Browns in there as well not good enough only at home no I just they are the case for having the one dude and they've gotten good performances out of a lot of other players too and the rookies look good but I just if I'm an offensive play caller I think there's ways to attack them and to mitigate the Garrett factor the Rams I mean statistically what a leap and that pass rush.

22:56They're really well coached. I think Shula has proven to be an exceptional game planner. And then same with the Lions. You know, we talk constantly about Kelvin Shepard and how impressive he's been. But like the Lions are a team, I think the defense is better than the offense right now. And they're really, really impressive to me. I think you could easily make the case that the Lions are the best defensive coaching job in the NFL this year. Yeah. When you look at, I mean, teams normally just cannot withstand those number of injuries at the same position at corner. If you have them at one spot and they are anything you look at statistically, ninth in EPA per drive, fourth in success rate, fifth in DVOA.

23:34It's not like just this fluky, they're getting turnovers type thing. I have been really, really impressed by Kelvin Shepard. And when some of those corners come back, that's why I'm still pretty bullish on the Lions because, you know, once December comes around, if they get healthier, I think they can be really, really good. And the Rams are the other one. You mentioned it's kind of like, second in DVOA, ahead of the guys we've been talking about. Ahead of them. And I keep waiting to be like, these corners, one of these weeks, they're going to give up 400. And it just hasn't happened yet. I mean, I don't know how, like, how do you explain it?

24:09Because I think we all looked at the same thing. Do you think those guys are playing better than we expected? Do you think they're being put in positions to succeed? Because that's what you look at the depth chart and you're just like, all due respect to the corners. you're like, that doesn't have the look of a corner room that can be a top three defense. Yeah, you know, they're playing well. I mean, Forbes is one of the great first round reclamation projects. But I do think they are a little gettable. And I do, I'm also, you know, the run defense is very good. We just talked about this with the matchup with Tampa.