Trade Deadline Bonanza! With Gregg Rosenthal

0:00Oh, welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Sheil Kapadia. Maybe for the first time in history, the NFL trade deadline actually delivered blockbuster deals involving Sauce Gardner to the Colts, Quinn and Williams to the Cowboys, other deals like the Saints trading Rashid Shahid to the Seahawks to talk about it all. We've got one of the best in the business NFL networks, Greg Rosenthal. You can listen to him on the NFL Daily Podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Sorry, no time to waste. Short intro today. Too much to talk about. Let's take a break. Come back and talk trade deadline with Greg Rosenthal.

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2:06All right, we are back on the Ringer NFL show with Greg Rosenthal. Greg, are you ready to grade, evaluate, assess some of these trades? What a trade deadline we had. Nobody said there would be grading, but yes, I am relieved. As someone who pumps up and makes a big deal out of the trade deadline being meaningful just because I want to cover the NBA, it is nice when one delivers. Well, my backup idea for you was I was going to pitch you trades that should have happened and didn't happen. I was already, you know, Miles Garrett to the Eagles for Tanner McKee. I mean, I had stuff ready, but you know what?

2:41We're not going to talk about that. We're going to talk about the actual trade. So let's get to it. Jets trade sauce Gardner to the Colts for two first round picks, 2026 and 2027 and wide receiver AD Mitchell. Greg, I feel like every trade evaluation comes down to you're in the room with the GM who makes the decision. He turns to you and you have to say yes or no. So let's start there. You're in the Colts room with Chris Ballard and he says, Greg, here's the offer. Yes or no. And why? Man. I think I'd say no, but maybe I shouldn't. I do think it's a win-win, but trading two firsts for any cornerback, especially the highest paid cornerback in the league, plus a good young receiver.

3:30I think A.D. Mitchell at some point could actually help a team. It's such a big risk, and yet I get why the Colts did it. I can both say that I like the trade for both sides and that if I'm in the room in that position and it was the team I was running, this is not probably the trade I would make. Okay, so why did the Colts do it then? Give me your reasoning. You said you can see why the Colts did it. Why do you think they did it? Is it sound reasoning? They're in win now mode. And Sauce Gardner is what, still 25 years old. It's not like they're mortgaging their future. He's a player that you build around.

4:04But one thing that I regretted coming into this year, you know, being so down on the Colts, assuming that they were just going to be a bottom 10 team, was how much continuity and how much talent they have. And actually, if you look at their roster, they've kind of been building to this moment. Like their skill position players have all been in this Shane Steichen system. Their offensive line is talented and young. And then especially on defense, they have a lot of guys that are at the end of their runs with the Colts, like Buckner and Grover Stewart and Kenny Moore, even Zaire Franklin. Like these are guys that maybe aren't going to be around for more than a year or two.

4:41So to me, they are a win now type of team. They're seven and two. They haven't had a season like this in 10 years. And they have a chance to go to the Super Bowl in a pretty weak AFC. So I do get why they would try to win now and now being like the next two years, essentially. So I think if you're a Colts fan, you're excited about this. I mean, it's sweet. If you're a fan of a team and they trade for a player, premium position, blue chip player, like you said, 25 years old, you should be excited. You know, the Colts group chats and oh my goodness, this is amazing. So I hate to be the guy who rains on the parade, but I would be a no.

5:15I would be a pretty loud no if I was in that room. And I'll give you my reasoning and you tell me where I'm wrong. I just feel like if you have uncertainty at quarterback, which I think they do, maybe you disagree, maybe others disagree. You don't give away two first round picks for unless it's like a defensive player, unless it's Micah Parsons or Miles Garrett. And so I look at this Colts team and I'm like, they're a fun story. Uh, they've absolutely exceeded my expectations. Maybe if a bunch of things go right, they can get to the Superbowl. I don't quite see them there. And I was thinking about this, Greg, like what are the chances a year from now?

5:52Let's say we do another pod early November next year that we're talking about the Colts quarterback situation and being like, yeah, I'm not, yeah, I'm not quite sure what they're going to do there. Like, I think that's a pretty high percentage. And if you feel like that's a toss-up around 50-50, then you can't just be giving away two first-round picks here. They do not think it's a toss-up around 50-50. What would your percentage be that we would be having that conversation? I'm curious. I think I am around a toss-up. Is that crazy? I don't know. No, I don't think that's crazy at all. I think it's lower.

6:25And I think they think it's way lower. So this is a vote of confidence in Daniel Jones. They're getting that deal done. He's a free agent. That's a scary sentence, Greg. I mean, it just is, though. Steichen likes him. He does what is required in that system. He has played well. This one game didn't freak me out, especially when you go through it play-by-play. I think they feel like they have their quarterback for the next three or four years. Yeah, that does make you a little nervous, but I would say no in the room, but I would say it quietly. This is one of those, like, you're in a marriage, Shield, you pick your battles.

7:04I wouldn't pick this battle. If Chris is my boss, Chris Ballard, and he wants to do it in the consensus, I get it because it's pretty close to 50-50 for me. And they're also win now because they all were going to get fired going into this year. And winning a playoff game in Indianapolis is a huge, huge win. And I think they should be favored to win a playoff game this year. I think you're right. I'm not saying it's a disaster. This isn't one of those like the Bill O 'Brien, DeAndre Hopkins ones where you're just coming on here going, you know, every single time I'm like locking the door, stealing their cell phone, saying, don't do this.

7:40Because at the very least, you're getting it is hard to get blue chip players at premium positions who are young in the contract. You know, now it might look like one thing, but if he doesn't want to renegotiate, it might look like a great contract a year from now, two years from now. So I'm OK there. I think what I realized all day long is I'm trying to analyze this trade. is just I'm not nearly as sold on Daniel Jones and this Colts team as others are. I'm looking at it like when I just heard you say they think they have their guy for three or four years, I am rewinding to the Giants. And like, this is an eight game sample where it's not even a nine game because the ninth game was not very good.

8:18I know it wasn't maybe a total disaster, but this is an eight game sample. Like, so do you think they're going to pay Daniel Jones like 50 million, 40,$50 million this off season and he's just going to be their guy? Yes. Well, not that much money. In their perfect world, they're giving him the Sam Darnold contract. He's in a very similar situation to where Darnold was a year ago. Now, Darnold's deal looks incredible right now. It was three for 100. He needs to go renegotiate that deal. He's only making 32, 33. With the way the cap's going up, if they got their own version of that, yeah, you don't make this move unless, A, you completely believe in Daniel Jones in this system.

9:01And then, B, you also, and this is actually the part that's harder for me, believe that Sauce Gardner with Lou Anarumo are just going to make sweet, sweet music together. Because Sauce Gardner hasn't been that big of a difference maker the last year and a half. In fact, at parts, he's flat out struggled. And so those are two evaluations that Chris Ballard is making that the trade only makes sense. And I feel confident that that was the evaluation that he made, that Gardner and Lou are perfect together and that Daniel Jones is our guy for the next two to three years minimum. All right. And I have to give the alternatives.

9:36I know people will say, well, then what would you do? You can't just rip all Daniel Jones. So I would just be a little patient here and say, maybe we make a more lower level move here. We see how the rest of the season plays out for Daniel Jones. Can he stay healthy for an entire season? By the way, he has a very storied injury history. And then I'm using the franchise tag on him. I am not signing him to a long-term contract after the season. I'm keeping my picks. I just want that optionality because I'm not sure after an eight game sample that the offense is going to continue to perform at these historic levels.

10:11I could be wrong. You could be right. Maybe we get to the playoffs and I'm like, man, I had the wrong read. They were better than I thought they were going to be. And maybe they know that better than I do. But if you're asking me at this very point in time, I would be like, I'm just going to take this slow, enjoy this season and see where I'm at at season 10. The bill will come due at some point. But right now they have an incredibly cheap, like interior offensive line. That's awesome. They now add Sauce Gardner to Charverius Ward and Kenny Moore. Like that's a great cornerback trio. They have a pass rusher in Liatulatu, who's probably the best second-year pass rusher in the league right now.

10:47He's really coming on. They've hit on their recent picks. I think they're feeling themselves. I think they are thinking, this is as weak as the AFC is ever going to look, and we absolutely have a chance to make the Super Bowl. I think that's fair. I still think they would be my second favorite to make the Super Bowl right now. Second? Who's first? The Chiefs, but I know the seeds are bad. The Bills are right there. the Colts over the Bills? Well, I did going into last week and am I just going to change it? Part of the reason is that I think the Colts have a pretty good chance to get a good record, have a one or a two seed, potentially skip around in the playoffs.

11:25And I do think offense travels. This has a chance to be a special offense, but man, Daniel Jones could make us all look stupid. All right, because that was going to be my next question for you because you were pumping them up and I was going to say, all right, then stack them, but you are putting your money where your mouth is saying maybe the second highest odds. I have them considerably lower. I mean, I got Chiefs and Bills. I honestly, but if you're talking ceiling, get to the Super Bowl. I think I still have the Ravens ahead of them. I know that sounds crazy, but I think I still would. And I might even have your Patriots ahead of them.

11:59I don't think that's crazy. So that's kind of the tier I would put them in. So now it's clarifying. As I have these conversations, I'm like, man, why am I not as high on this move as other people. But I think that's the question. When I get to that question and other people feel like they really have it, I, I view them as a good team, cute little story, fun little story, nice little surprise, maybe divisional round. I will be shocked if they're playing in the AFC championship or the Superbowl. They kind of remind me of the old, uh, chiefs, Trent green, you know, Dick Vermeule teams, or maybe even some early manning teams.

12:34I do think their offense is that good. But ultimately, that's a team that probably loses in the division around. The harder thing for me is just like, is Sauce Gardner a transcendent player? And that we'll have to see. If he is a transcendent player, then it ends up making sense. But it just hurts to look at a trade hall that was basically the same as the Micah Parsons trade hall. And one is Sauce Gardner and one is Micah Parsons. These two are not the same. Perfect setup. Let's take a break. We'll come back and talk about the team that maybe traded away Micah Parsons and what they did on Trade Deadline Day.

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13:49So what does a bottle of Jägermeister say? It says you have standards. You don't cut corners. And you like your Jägermeister shots the way they're meant to be enjoyed. Ice cold. As for the frozen taquitos and mystery leftovers, we'll keep that between us. Drink it cold or don't drink it at all. Jägermeister, damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jägermeister liqueur, 35 % alcohol by volume. Imported by Masked Jägermeister, U.S. White Plains, New York. All right, we are back here with Greg Rosenthal. We'll save the Jets for the end here, Greg, but let's talk about this other trade. Jets trade Quinn and Williams to the Cowboys for a 2026 second, a 2027 first and defensive tackle, Mozzie Smith, uh, key stipulation here, which I love.

14:34It was kind of like the NBA, you know, top three protected or whatever, uh, per multiple reports, the 2027 first round pick that goes to the jets will be the higher of the picks that the Cowboys have their pick and the Packers pick. So they've got both those picks, whichever one ends up being better. That's the one that goes to the jets in this deal. All all right, same question here. You're in Jerry world there, beautiful facilities. He turns to you. He maybe can't remember your name, but he knows you work for the Cowboys there. And he says, Greg, this has nothing to do with Micah Parsons. This is about this isolated deal for Quinn and Williams, 2027 first and a 2026 second.

15:18Do I make this deal? And I say, Jerry, my name is Will, Will McClay. I've been running your personnel department for like eight years doing whatever you told me to and now you're making me just make the Parsons trade look better at the last second. I'd probably say yes. You only live once. Really? Because my biggest problem with this Cowboys trade is that I don't think they have any sort of long-term plan and that they're all just making it up as they go along. And of course, in aggregate with the Parsons trade, it's a net loss, but holding on to two 27 picks or Quinton Williams for the next three seasons, I think that's fair.

16:04They need so much on that defense that I do think sometimes we overvalue draft picks, especially outside the top 10, which they're obviously hoping that this pick will be. I don't think it's outrageous. I think Quinton Williams is probably a top five defensive tackle, although this year, Greg, one sack three quarterback hits. He ranks 90th in the NFL in pressures. I couldn't believe that until I was preparing. Now he's awesome against the run. Maybe the best run defending defensive tackle in the NFL. We know that's very important to Jerry there. It is a bit of a haul, you know, like first round pick.

16:42I can get their first round pick and a second round pick for Quinn and Williams. I don't think I do this deal if I'm the Cowboys, but just like Sauce Gardner, I like Quinn and Williams as a player as well. But you had a tweet that I need you to just recap because you can't talk about this trade without Parsons. You just have to zoom out and be like, all right, the moves that the Cowboys have made here in the last two months, what went out, what came back in? So tell the people what went out, what came back in, and let's evaluate it on that basis. Well, yeah, it's essentially you traded Micah Wright and Mozzie Smith for Kenny Clark, Quinn and Williams, and a move up in the 26 draft about 20 picks.

17:29And that's why I want to change my answer from literally 90 seconds ago. Because it drives me too crazy that they literally don't have any extra picks from this trade in aggregate. And it's been a long day. And, uh, it is that second round pick that if I'm in the room for, it's like, I can even swallow the first, but it's just too much. I do not want to be trading away two premium picks just to get back Quinn and Williams. It's too much in it. It's just crazy that in a trade up, by the way, like if the Cowboys stink and the Packers are good, like those could be even closer. For all we know, it could be like a move up like seven picks in that draft.

18:13What if Dak Prescott or Jordan Love gets injured next year? And their team like stinks. I mean, who knows? By the way, I love that. I love that the Jets got that. Now, I don't know what the negotiations were, but I think that's really smart to be like, all right, we want the hire of the two picks. So I'm with you. It's too much. I like Quinn and Williams. I'm not crushing Quinn and Williams, but what are we doing? And you mentioned Will McClay. He must be like, dude, I have gotten you so many great players. I got you Dak Prescott in the fourth round. I got you CeeDee Lamb. I got you Micah Parsons.

18:44I got you Trevon Diggs. And now, like Greg said, we don't have any additional draft capital to show for it. And we lost Micah Parsons. I mean, what are they doing? Honestly, sometimes I'm like, am I going over the top on them? I'm falling into the content machine with Jerry. But then you make the point you did. and I just get all fired up again. And by the way, we didn't count that in addition to all the things that went out and came back in, they lost games this year because they didn't have Michael Parsons or Quinton Williams. I mean, there's a scenario where we're like, hey, Cowboys are a frisky team.

19:18NFC is wide open and we lost that as well. That's an outstanding point that like, you also didn't have Quinton Williams for these eight or nine games. That should be factored in. And it's why the Jets making the move was great, I think because I think they traded both Sauce and Quinnen at the highest value that they could possibly have, which is right now. I think just with these two players in particular, it will be interesting to see how much is getting the Jets depression and stink off you worth. Because both players need to be significantly better than they looked this year for the Jets on their new teams.

19:59I kind of buy the idea, especially with Sauce, but probably with both. that they'll just be happier, playing better in a healthier situation and play better. But they kind of need to. The buzz behind the scenes was Quinton Williams really wanted out. And he made it pretty clear. And I think that relationship had soured. And I think that was part of the reason they did that. All right. It's a good segue to talk about the Jets here because you know how this works. The team that gets the draft picks, they're the online heroes. And oh, this is so smart. And draft capital. and then you turn around like a few years later and you're like, man, that team kind of still stinks here.

20:36So we're just were that team three years ago. They had three first round draft picks. Yeah, they are. They already did this. If you're having deja vu, it's because they already did this and they're back at the same spot here. But they've got five first round picks, two second round picks. The next two seasons, you're in there with Woody, with Brick, with whoever else there at the Jets facility. they turn to you for both these deals, are you saying, let's not give away good players? Or are you saying, all right, let's do it. This makes sense. I'm down with it. I hate being in that room. Like I'm Aaron.

21:14I want to be Aaron Glenn in this situation. I do think it's a vote of confidence in Aaron Glenn and Darren Mugi to a lesser extent, who's their GM. And I just don't get a sense has the most juice compared to other GMs. I think it's Aaron Glenn kind of running the show. I think he's the most important person. I think building around a great defense is tough. And by the time, like they need to get their quarterback, they just, if they need to rebuild, I think it's sort of thinking about, let's put our resources into offense. Like Robert Sala was a great example of why it wasn't working, putting it all into defense.

21:51I love that point. And it's, the cupboard's not bare there. You know, they potentially have two offensive tackles. Now, we're not like 100 % sure, but they look good so far. They have a number one wide receiver in Garrett Wilson. And so I'm a yes too. So I think we're in the same boat where we're like, I would have done this. It makes sense. It guarantees nothing. We could be three years from now being like, well, the picks suck. They didn't get anybody and they're terrible still. But I like the point about building on offense and especially the optionality it gives you at quarterback. Like they need an avenue to try to get a quarterback.

22:24I don't know what that's going to be. But now with all these picks, you can take one, you can move up for one, you can trade for a veteran who might be unhappy. You can trade for, you can try to get one of these reclamation quarterback guys and then draft one after. It doesn't have to be just one thing. This gives you a lot of options. It's a hard reset. A lot of things could still go wrong, but I feel like it still gives you a chance. And I think the point you made earlier was the key one, which is that if you're going to trade good players, premium positions in their prime, you better maximize the value.

22:56The worst thing you can do is trade one of those guys. And then we were like, wow, they only got a second round pick or whatever for them. And I think like if you and I had this conversation a week ago, would you? And I said, hey, the Jets are going to trade Sauce Gardner and Quinn and Williams next week. I wouldn't have had the compensation as high as three first round picks and a second round pick. And A.D. Mitchell. and A.D. Mitchell. A.D. Mitchell, I'm not really putting anything into. He was a healthy scratch earlier this season for the Cowboys. I actually think A.D. Mitchell is the number two wide receiver on the Jets right now.

23:29They're so bad at wide receiver. He's a talented player who they struggled to kind of get in line. I actually don't think it's that small of a throw-in. I think A.D. Mitchell will be playing a ton of snaps and potentially could be pretty good for the Jets. So I agree. They got maximum haul. I would not have thought Quentin Williams would have gotten that much. Not that he's old. He's 28, turning 29 soon. But Sauce Gardner, they maxed out. I think they did a good job. The only surprise is that Brees Hall didn't go. But I think they actually will probably keep him on a franchise tag next year and try to have a good offense with whoever they have at quarterback.

24:09Could we not have gotten the Colts to throw in Anthony Richardson to this trade? I was thinking about that. They don't need Anthony Richardson anymore, right? I think yes. I don't know. I don't know if the Colts would have because are they ready to take that out? Yeah, I think they would have. But I don't know if... I guess you would want them as a throw-in. It's just the messiness. You just have no faith that in the end the Jets are going to do the right thing. The Raiders are the other team that I was thinking of had three first-round picks recently. And it was Cleland Farrell, Alex Leatherwood, and that safety that is escaping my name but I think is barely in the league right now.

24:46Oh my gosh. Yeah, it doesn't guarantee you anything. All right, let's finish with this, Greg. I feel like the hipsters, the normies, the universally beloved trade we got today, the Saints trading wide receiver, Rashid Shaheed to the Seahawks for a 2026 fourth and a 2026 fifth. I feel like highest approval rating across the board was this trade for the Seahawks. Do you agree? you're too deep in the hipster takes you know shield you got to get offline and now i just feel like you know here i am in my like hipster like open you know gray jacket uniform and and uh i'm just agreeing with you but i've been preaching at the altar of rashid jahid for like three years it's been a very frustrating watch how the saints have used him speed like that is just so hard to fine.