In short
The Ringer NFL Show breaks down two blockbuster June 1 trades: Myles Garrett from the Cleveland Browns to the Los Angeles Rams, and A.J. Brown from the Philadelphia Eagles to the New England Patriots (including the compensation details for Brown).
Guests
Deontay Lee (The Ringer) joins host Sheil Kapadia to analyze both sides of the Garrett deal and discuss how it affects team-building, timelines, and championship odds.
Key claims (Garrett/Rams)
The Rams are a “perfect landing spot” for a 30-year-old elite pass rusher, with a Randy Moss-like context: adding a Hall-of-Fame-caliber player to an already Super Bowl-favorite roster. Garrett’s production should spike because he’ll have better pass-rush partners and more leads to attack after halftime. The Rams could become top-five defensively.
Notable examples
Rams’ 2024 playoff loss to the Seahawks (defense couldn’t get a stop vs Sam Darnold); Rams’ defensive DVOA ranking; Garrett’s 23-sack/All-Pro profile; Patriots mid-2000s parallels; Micah Parsons trade compensation comparison.
Key claims (Browns)
Cleveland did the right “rebuild” move by trading Garrett at age 31 for Jared Verse plus multiple high picks, especially given the Deshaun Watson dead-cap runway and uncertain QB prospects.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOAnalyzing the Trades: Myles Garrett and A.J. Brown
1:36 to 3:08
Discussion on the significance of the Myles Garrett and A.J. Brown trades.
“Brown trade, it seemed like everybody knew like, okay, 4 Eastern, we're all going to be waiting by our phones, looking for the notification.”
Impact of Myles Garrett's Trade to the Rams
3:08 to 5:06
In-depth analysis of how Myles Garrett's arrival affects the Rams.
“So let's start with the Rams side of this.”
Comparative Analysis: Garrett and Moss
5:06 to 7:24
Comparison of Myles Garrett's trade impact to Randy Moss's historical trade.
“good that was already a favorite uh to win the Super Bowl even before this trade just saying hey when you can get a Hall of Fame player who still has great years left, go ahead and get him.”
Future Prospects for the Rams
7:24 to 12:24
Discussion on the Rams' potential and future with Myles Garrett.
“And I can further the Moss comparisons here.”
Ty Simpson Pick and Team Strategy
12:24 to 14:01
Exploration of the implications of the Ty Simpson pick post-Garrett trade.
“well, one other thing I want to mention, just in terms of whether they're all in or not.”
Rams' Aggressive Strategy: Evaluating the Trade Moves
14:01 to 23:51
Explore how the Rams' draft picks set them up for future success and potential trades.
“and Peter Schrager, who like, to me, if there's anything Rams related, outside of Jordan Roderick, I want to know what the guy who was at Sean McVay's wedding has to say about the Rams.”
Cleveland Browns' Decision: The Myles Garrett Trade
25:03 to 28:01
Understand the rationale behind the Browns trading Myles Garrett and the implications for their future.
“Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it.”
Cleveland's Trade Dynamics with Myles Garrett
28:01 to 29:16
Analyzing the implications of Myles Garrett's potential trade and Cleveland's strategies.
“When Miles Garrett says that he wants to be traded last spring ago, last spring before the Super Bowl, you say, hey, Miles Garrett, that's awesome that you want to go somewhere else.”
Assessing Trade Compensation
29:16 to 31:18
Comparing the trade compensation received by the Browns for Garrett and its impact.
“As a starter, I think they hung on to what should have been one of the greatest, if not the greatest Brown of all time for as long as they could have.”
Rebuilding Cleveland's Roster Post-Garrett
31:18 to 33:45
Discussing how the Browns are rebuilding their roster after trading Garrett.
“Cause you're getting an additional 20, 27 first.”
Show all 19 chapters
Evaluating Jared Verse's Potential
33:45 to 35:08
Exploring Jared Verse's skills and potential impact for the Browns after the trade.
“There's just, but now at least they are getting the mops.”
Long-Term Implications for the Browns
35:08 to 38:11
Analyzing the long-term effects of the Garrett trade on the Browns' future.
“So yeah, I think we're on the same page with the Browns.”
Lightning Round: Teams Interested in Garrett
38:11 to 42:00
A quick-fire discussion on which teams should have pursued Myles Garrett.
“from now, but I don't think you're going to get the kind of instant reaction we can have for Myles Garrett and projecting what that's going to mean for the Rams for certain.”
Chargers' Cap Space Conundrum
42:00 to 45:11
Exploration of the Chargers' cautious approach in the offseason and missed opportunities for talent acquisition.
“What the hell is all this cap space force?”
Transition to A.J. Brown Trade
45:11 to 45:21
Introduction of the upcoming discussion on A.J. Brown's trade to the Patriots.
“see if they should have done something there.”
Analyzing the A.J. Brown Trade Impact
45:21 to 50:26
Discussion on the implications of A.J. Brown's trade for both the Eagles and Patriots, including fan sentiments and expectations.
“Brown to the Patriots for a 2028 first round pick and a 2027 fifth round pick.”
Future Outlook for A.J. Brown
50:26 to 56:00
Consideration of A.J. Brown's remaining prime years and what he brings to the Patriots.
“kind of different than other organizations.”
Analyzing A.J. Brown's Impact on the Patriots
56:00 to 1:01:02
Explore the potential benefits and expectations of A.J. Brown's trade to the Patriots.
“Like it's really hard to look at any, like the, the lowest you can kind of get on AJ Brown is like, oh, he's the 15th best wide receiver in the NFL.”
Exciting Trades and Offseason Developments
1:01:02 to 1:01:53
Discuss recent trades in the NFL and their implications for teams and fans.
“Miles Garrett traded from the Cleveland Browns to the Los Angeles Rams.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:05Diante Lee:Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. I'm your host, Sheil Kapadia. A wild day in the NFL. Two blockbuster trades. Miles Garrett goes from the Cleveland Browns to the Los Angeles Rams. Totally unexpected. And then the expected move. A.J. Brown gets traded from the Philadelphia Eagles to the New England Patriots. We finally find out the compensation. So we had to break down those trades from every single angle in great detail. We have my friend Deontay Lee from The Ringer to talk about it. Let's take a break. We'll come right back with Deontay. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Buying something for dad usually goes the same way every year, guessing, second guessing, ending up with something that collects dust on a shelf.
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1:48Diante Lee:all right we are back here on the ringer nfl show with my friend dion taley dionte has to be the most eventful june 1st i don't know if it's in nfl history certainly during my podcast career a wild day in the nfl 100 i can't remember the last time we were actually like counting down to a certain time on June 1st. But, you know, with the A.J. Brown trade, it seemed like everybody knew like, okay, 4 Eastern, we're all going to be waiting by our phones, looking for the notification. Obviously, the Miles Garrett trade earlier this morning was a much bigger shock to the system. But, yeah, I would say in my lifetime, the most I think I've ever had to care about something happening after June 1st in my life.
2:27Diante Lee:Incredible. It's like the new start of free agency. All right, we're going to break down the two monster trades in the NFL. We got to start with Miles Garrett because like Deontay said, A.J. Brown, we've talked a lot about A.J. Brown. We will get to that trade. Don't get me wrong. But Miles Garrett, just a blockbuster. I don't want to say totally out of nowhere, but kind of out of nowhere. We weren't doing, you know, three episodes saying, hey, let's come up with fake Miles Garrett trades 10 days ago. So the Browns are sending Miles Garrett to the Rams for Jared first, a 20-27 first, a 20-28 second, and a 20-29 third in a blockbuster deal.
3:07Diante Lee:We'll do it team by team, Deontay. So let's start with the Rams side of this. I will give you the floor. You saw this trade. I know you said your jaw dropped to the floor when you saw it. From the Rams perspective, how pumped should they be? Does it make sense? Is this a, hey, you're stealing the headlines, but two years from now, you might regret this. Where do you come down on this trade, your kind of big takeaway from the Rams perspective? I mean, I'll lay this out probably in greater detail in writing this week, but the first thing I thought about was Randy Moss in New England. Like that was the immediate context I funneled this through.
3:43And they're around the same age, right? Randy Moss was about 30 years old when he got traded from Oakland to New England. You see Miles Garrett, you know, nine years in the league, 30 years old, being moved from Cleveland to Los Angeles. And those were two veterans. Obviously, Randy had some more off the field stuff that I think people were concerned about in terms of maturity and how he was behaving within the building. But you think about two all time great talents that are kind of wasting away with franchises that are lost in the middle of a rebuild that clearly don't need to have high priced veterans on their books.
4:14And I think that we talked about this before Super Bowl 59, you know, a couple of years ago when Miles Garrett first put in his trade request before he got paid. which is that like to maximize the rest of his career, a contender should be looking for this guy. And when I saw the news, you know, obviously once the shock wore off, all of it made sense. This is probably the perfect landing spot for someone like Miles Garrett. He's going to have the best quarterback he's ever dealt with in his life. He's going to have, you know, a collection of talent that's very similar to what it was at the peak in Cleveland, in my opinion, right?
4:43You're going to have Trent McDuffie to kind of be his Denzel Ward. You've got another edge rusher in Byron Young. You've got Kobe Turner playing on the interior. all the pieces line up for Los Angeles and Myles Garrett to feel like this is the year that we make that magic happen again we're going to go be champions and Myles Garrett I think should expect to be stamped you know as an all-time great by making a championship level impact on this team
5:05Diante Lee:I love that Moss comparison I hadn't thought of that that is a good one a team that was already good that was already a favorite uh to win the Super Bowl even before this trade just saying hey when you can get a Hall of Fame player who still has great years left, go ahead and get him. And the point you made about the support in Castionte, I haven't done like a player-by-player comparison every year, but my gut instinct was he's going to have more help with this Rams defense than he's ever had before in Cleveland. And they've had some great defenses in Cleveland multiple years under Jim Schwartz.
5:38Diante Lee:But just when you look at the defensive line and what are those graphs that we see every year with the double team rate? And it's like, oh, there's Miles Garrett, like in one corner of the NFL and then everybody else. That's what makes his performance so impressive is that it's not like he had two other guys, three other guys on the defensive line in Cleveland most years where you say, all right, who's an offensive line going to give attention to? It's always Miles Garrett. And you could get away with chipping him or double teaming him or sliding your protection or whatever you want to do. And teams are still going to do that.
6:10Diante Lee:But now you have partners who can really make opponents pay when they do that. like you mentioned, Byron Young, Kobe Turner, Braden Fisk. I mean, this Rams organization has been investing in that pass rush, investing in that defensive line over and over again. And so if you're a Rams fan, you're like, this is great. This is a, what is it? What are they, a force multiplier, as the hipsters say, you know, in football terms. This is a force multiplier. All those guys, they might be sad to see Jared Burse go. Very good player. We'll get to that side of it in a couple minutes here. But you get, I can just flat out say, the best defensive player in football.
6:45Diante Lee:You know, I think in any given year, if you want to give me Micah Parsons, you can give me Micah Parsons. To me, it's been a two-person race between those two. Not only the best player, the biggest game wrecker, I would say, in football, where you're just going to feel him. He can take over a game. 23 sacks last year, has been a first-team All-Pro in five of the last six seasons, and the team that was already the Super Bowl favorite just added that guy. I mean, I don't want to, you know, I don't know, dream team and hyperbole and all that, but there's none of that here. This is all real, that the team that was supposed to win the Super Bowl, according to the betting markets, now added the best defensive player in the NFL.
7:24100%. And I can further the Moss comparisons here. You think about where the Patriots were in the mid-2000s. They went in 2004. You know, there's the illegal contact rule changes that happened the season prior. They have an aging defense that couldn't just muscle teams up after those rules changes. And you started to see the Steelers breakthrough. You saw them lose to the Broncos in 2005. You see the Colts come back from an 18-point deficit and beat them by playing this spread-out style of offense that New England just couldn't match because they didn't have enough playmaking talent. The Colts go on with a bad defense and lean on their offense in that era, and that was one of the first times we really saw a pass-first style of offense go and win a title.
8:05I bring that up in relation to this because if you're the Rams, you're looking across the NFC and you see the two teams that have beaten us in the last two postseasons to go on and win a title did so by having a complete pass rush unit up front and really kind of basing their championship run off of having these excellent defenses. And if you look at the NFC title game last year, very directly, it was clear that the only reason the Rams were not in the Super Bowl is because they could not get a stop. It's not because Matthew Stafford didn't show up. It's not because Sean McVay made bad decisions on fourth down.
8:37I actually thought that was one of his better fourth down decision-making games. Ultimately, they couldn't get a stop when they needed it. They gave up points right before halftime. They gave up points basically on every drive of the first half, and the Rams were always chasing. This is an opportunity, I think, for them to change the pendulum, to change the paradigm of how they approach things and be able to lean on their run game, which they already clearly established last year as one of the more efficient ones that we've seen if you're looking at success rate right as your ultimate metric they were one of the best in that respect and now you went and added a bona fide pass rush guy so that way when you have a lead in games you can turn to miles garrett and say go bring us home right and i think that that's absolutely what the expectation is and the other thing that i think gets lost in this for as great as miles garrett's production is you have to remember he was losing every week and he was still putting up defensive player of the year numbers you know contesting the sack record breaking the sack record in spite of the fact that his team was almost never in games by the time we got late in the fourth quarter now you're telling me that the best pure pass rusher in the nfl might have enough leads to be able to pin his ears back after halftime because they're going to be up by two scores they're going to be up late in the fourth quarter and teams are going to have to pass and that guy is on the other side you know combined with all of the talent that he's playing beside there's an opportunity I think for this team to be the same kind of world breaking talent that the Patriots were in 2007.
10:05If everything goes right.
10:06Diante Lee:Yeah. I was so pumped for him when he requested the trade, you know, I think we were like, good, you know, request a trade. We don't want to see you waste your career away in a place where you're not going to win. And then it was like, well, we'll offer you a lot of money to stay. And he's like, I'll stay. And I'm like, all right, I get it. But I still would rather you go somewhere else where you're playing in big time playoff games, even regular season games against big-time opponents. I mean, he's going up against Kyle Shanahan. He's now going up against Sean McVay and Matthew Stafford. He's going up against other teams in the NFC.
10:37Diante Lee:And, you know, you mentioned the way that the Rams lost that playoff game to the Seahawks. And it's so fun. Football is hard to analyze in some ways because of the small samples and the recency bias and all that. Because you're absolutely right. I mean, you can't write the story of the Seahawks Super Bowl run without saying Sam Darnold cooked the Rams defense in that playoff game. And he didn't have a big margin for error because the Rams offense actually won the battle against the Seahawks defense. They were the only team really that could do that. But they didn't win because their defense couldn't get a stop against Sam Darnold.
11:10Diante Lee:And I think that had to be in Sean McVay's head here. He obviously hasn't forgotten that. And at the same time, Deontay, I was looking at the Rams just in general, their performance last year defensively. They were fourth in defensive DVOA last year. Now, that can be a little, you know, schedule and all that. They weren't as strong in the other metrics. But like, there was a time last year, and I think they got worse as kind of the season went on. And then the playoffs, for sure, what they were doing, what they were just putting out there at cornerback. It was like, that's going to get exposed unless your pass rush absolutely dominates.
11:43Diante Lee:but it's not like it was a terrible defense. You know, this isn't like it was the Cowboys defense last year or anything. Like at the very worst, this was a mediocre defense last year that now has added Trent McDuffie, Jalen Watson at corner. You address your biggest weakness and then you add Miles Garrett, who we just talked about, the impact he can have. So yeah, they have a, like it's not crazy to think they could have a top five defense in the NFL. And I think as long as Matthew Stafford's healthy and Sean McVay's on the sideline, they're going to have a top five offense in the NFL. And that just put, you know, how many teams can actually say that realistically as we sit here at the beginning of June?
12:21Diante Lee:So I think my bottom line here, well, one other thing I want to mention, just in terms of whether they're all in or not. Because I think this is actually an interesting conversation. You would say, of course, Sheil, they're all in. Miles Garrett entering his age 31 season. He signed through 2030. This is another interesting part of the trade here because his guaranteed money only goes through 2027. So if you're someone who says, well, he might be in decline, like it's they're tied to him for two years. Now, I think he'll probably be on the Rams much longer than that. He signed through 2030, but you actually aren't, you know, it's not prohibitive to part ways with him.
12:57Diante Lee:Like, let's say these next two years don't go well. You bring in Ty Simpson. You realize, hey, we don't have a lot of young talent on the roster anymore. We need to take a step back here. You actually can move on with Miles Garrett, and it's not really going to handcuff you from a cap perspective. So I thought that was interesting. But the other part of the all-in conversation, Deontay, Rams fans, cover your ears. This is a happy day for you. But is it just me or does the Ty Simpson pick make even less sense now? With the miles-carry trade. Give me your take because I think there will be a little bit of a spin on, no, no, Sheol.
13:31Diante Lee:This is why it does make sense. I don't buy it, but I saw you say well. So go ahead and take the floor and then I'll respond. Let me, I kind of tried to lay that out. I remember the morning after day one of the draft, right? And we're all kind of, you know, reeling, trying to understand like, oh, it's David Bailey instead of Arbel Reese to the Jets and all these trades. And, you know, Jalen Waddell is a Bronco now and who got picked where. And obviously the Ty Simpson pick probably lords above all of that as the biggest conversation piece. and I just remember watching Get Up that morning and Peter Schrager, who like, to me, if there's anything Rams related, outside of Jordan Roderick, I want to know what the guy who was at Sean McVay's wedding has to say about the Rams.
14:11And the one thing he pointed out that was very Brian Windhorst-esque was making this pick right now opens the Rams up to be more aggressive with how they look at their 2027 and 2028 picks. And the moment that I thought about that, It was very much a, why would he say that situation? Now, at that time, I was still thinking the Rams want to add on offense. Maybe they'll go out and shop for an A.J. Brown, right? And there was reporting at that time that they were kind of kicking the tires. I was kind of trying to sift through what I thought was real and what was fake, between whether they were scared off by injury concerns or his contract and all of those things.
14:47I never really thought about it being someone like Myles Garrett. But I will say, when you go out and make a pick like bringing in Ty Simpson, once you divorce yourself from the evaluation of him as a player, right? Whether or not you think he's going to be an above average starter, whether or not you think he's going to be a championship level starter in the league, all of that to the side, what it did do was incubate the Rams from always having to be all in past 2026 and 2027. Because now you can say, you know, realistically, if you're less need, I have my quarterback of the future to hand this off to when Matthew Stafford's done being a quarterback here.
15:21Now, will that work out? I don't know. But I do believe if I'm Sneed, if I'm Sneed, I feel like I've protected myself on both ends. I feel like I have the best play caller in the NFL. I have one of the five best quarterbacks in the NFL and maybe the best pure pocket passer in the league. I have built a great running game. I built a great offensive line, you know, and a great offensive line that not only can move the ball on the ground, but can protect my 38 year old quarterback. All I really needed to do was take care of my defense. I went out and I got Trent McDuffie and Jalen Watson to address my biggest needs, as you mentioned.
15:54But I'm also looking and I'm thinking, Jared Verse did kind of take a step back in the second half of last season, strictly from a converting pressures to sacks and quarterbacks hits perspective. Not that he was a bad player, still good against the run. He will still generate pressures for you, but he wasn't the closer that I think you wanted to see for a Super Bowl contender. And I think it's possible that he just looked around and said, I want to take one more big swing. and I know my quarterback situation is handled in the future, so I can go out and do that. In that respect, I can buy it. Obviously, Simpson is the linchpin here that makes it work or not work, but I can buy the logic that bringing in Ty Simpson now does allow you to be more aggressive on the margins of the roster and in bringing in high-impact players on the other side of the ball like we saw them do this offseason.
16:40Diante Lee:Yeah, you could argue that you could say, even if this doesn't, even if Stafford falls off here, we still have a great team around a rookie quarterback and we just saw with drake may last year we've seen in other instances that you know what you have a great coach you have a great play caller you have great supporting talent you can put that that rookie quarterback in position to succeed because you're not paying him a lot of money so to your point you could say hey we can trade our 2027 pick we have our quarterback now i just feel like now maybe it's my procrastination my procrastinating nature, but I would have been in the room going, guys, guys, guys, we will be able to find a veteran quarterback that will want to come to Los Angeles to play with Sean McVay, this offense, LA, our defense.
17:30Diante Lee:I know we don't know who that person is now, but I'm going to live with the uncertainty a little bit because we're going to extend Matthew Stafford. We're looking at two years with Matthew Stafford. Let's just see how it goes. There will be a guy, there will be the next, it might not be the next Matthew Stafford. It could be the next Sam Darnold type. It could be that type of player. And guess what? We have an infrastructure for that person to succeed versus taking a 50-50 chance on a guy like Ty Simpson, where I understand it. If it hits now, you're not paying him a lot of money and you're looking really smart.
18:03Diante Lee:Again, that outcome could play out and they could look like the smartest team in the NFL. But Deontay, I also look at it that the margins are so slim in the NFL. And as much as the Rams look like a powerhouse now, if you just look at kind of the betting odds, their odds to win a Super Bowl are what, like 11 % or something? I think that they dropped to like plus 550. Yeah, even when you're the favorite. So the margins are so slim that I still think there's a good chance we're at some point next year where we're going, they have a great team. they're so close but oh is the reason that they didn't hoist the lombardi could could there be a week where we say man multiple weeks a month a playoff game a drive a possession where we say man they could have really used wide receiver x here offensive guard y here whatever it is build some depth there even if it's a guy you don't have a vision for right away just kind of almost some insurance as someone who's going to help you down the road now you could i guess you could argue, hey, Ty Simpson might be maybe if Matthew Stafford gets injured.
19:10Diante Lee:But now you're talking about a guy who had 13 starts in college. It's very fascinating. It's a very fascinating. It is fascinating. And I'll play the other side of it one more time. And again, I don't know if I actually buy this, but I think that it's a good thought exercise to have, right? If I were to take your stance here, or if I were to hear your stance and I'm less need, I'm going to look around the league and say, would you rather be the team with the quarterback on a rookie deal? And you're just hoping that that guy clears a certain threshold to be a Super Bowl level quarterback with a great situation around him?
19:43Or would you rather be the Jaguars and be paying Trevor Lawrence$275 million over the next five years and hoping that he's an MVP? Would you rather be the Packers paying the same amount to Jordan Love and hoping that he's an MVP as now all of the depth that you built around the periphery is falling apart because you do have to pay this guy superstar quarterback level money, which means I need superstar quarterback returns. You look at Cincinnati, you look at Baltimore, right? You look at even San Francisco, who I think has handled maybe their quarterback situation, all the injuries and the loss of depth over the last couple of years better than most franchises should be expected to.
20:18And you still look at them and say, they're probably a piece or two away before we can actually feel like they would be in the driver's seat to go win a title. I like where the Rams are positioned, which is not a place that I thought I would be after day one of the draft, right? I came down very hard on the Ty Simpson pick. I didn't think he was that impressive of a player at Alabama. I didn't think that he merited the 13th overall pick. I thought that the Rams could have used that draft capital to bring in another player on a rookie deal that can maybe give you surplus value. But now, after we're down the road and I can look back at just the wide array of moves they made at defensive back, bringing in Myles Garrett, what they already have on offense, and I can say, if you're not, if you're telling me what the situation is that you've got to have somebody to hand this thing over to after Stafford retires, if this is the roster you're about to hand this over to for a rookie quarterback, you can't ask for more.
21:11And B, and maybe most importantly, the last two years in the NFL have shown us you do not need to have a$50 million quarterback or somebody who plays like an all pro quarterback, MVP quarterback for you to win a title. If you can just get a guy who meets the threshold in the right situation with a great run game and a great defense around him. We can take this back to the early 2000s and say that those are the only ingredients you really need to feel like you can go and win a Super Bowl.
21:36Diante Lee:That's fair. He will be in position to succeed. Whether he succeeds or not, it won't be because he's in a bad place with a bad coach or no wide receivers or a bad defense. That will not be the case. So if he's going to succeed, this would be the place where he succeeds. I continue to look at the opportunity cost. But you know what? I've been wronged a lot of times before. And maybe two, three years from now, I'll say, whoops. All right. They knew what they were doing. I had the wrong read on it. Last thing here, Deontay, on the Rams is just, you know me with trades. It's a flat out, if you were in the room, would you have done it?
22:09Diante Lee:Would you have said we have to do it? Would you have said we cannot do it? Would you have said I'm on the fence? What would Deontay Lee's opinion have been in that room with Les Snead when this trade proposal came to the table? We got to go on the record here. I'm saying the proof that Jared Verse was a success for us as a pick is the fact that he's good enough to consummate this deal for Myles Garrett. I'm taking this deal 100 times out of 100. This is the point of the sport. I want to have the best players in the world playing, you know, playing, wearing my helmet, wearing my jersey, winning games for my franchise.
22:44This is what this game is about. I want Myles Garrett 100 times out of 100. And I'm going to hope that Jared Verse is very successful out in Northeast Ohio. But we're trying to win a championship here.
22:53Diante Lee:I'm with you. I would have said the same thing. You said it's the point of the sport is to win the Super Bowl. It doesn't guarantee anything. It could blow up. Jared Burst could go on to be a five-time All-Pro, and now you're paying Myles Garrett, and maybe Matthew Stafford suffers an injury. You get old. A lot of things can happen, but those things are out of your control right now. You have to put together the best team possible with the older quarterback. You've been so close the last two years. you have a chance to add the best and most disruptive defensive player in the NFL. I'm going for it.
23:28Diante Lee:I never fault a team when they're actually close for going for it very aggressively. I will fault the teams who think they're close. And I say, you're not close. You're delusional. Those are the teams I fault. The Rams are close. We all know the Rams are close. And so I'm with you. I absolutely would have done this deal as well. All right, let's take a break. We come back, we get to the Brown side of it. And then we move on to the final ending of the A.J. Brown saga. We'll get to that trade as well when we come back. Did you know about one in three people with plaque psoriasis may also develop psoriatic arthritis, which causes joint pain, stiffness and swelling?
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26:02Diante Lee:So the Cleveland Browns, okay, they, you know, again, Miles Garrett had the trade request a couple years ago. They hold on to him. They're paying him. He's playing great there, yet at the same time, this team isn't going anywhere. So I feel like, I think you might disagree with me here, Deontay. Here's where I'm at. If you're a fan, it sucks to not have Myles Garrett on your team anymore. If you have kids who are Browns fans, they're like, this is the only guy I've liked. This has to be the most popular jersey. This is the reason to watch the games. Having said that, I would have been a yes in the Browns building as well for this trade.
26:41Diante Lee:I think it makes sense for them. And again, it's not one of those where it feels good. Like if you're a Rams fan, this feels great. We got Miles Garrett. You're going crazy on the group chats. We're going to go win the Super Bowl. That's not what it is for the Browns. But if you're just thinking about how can you eventually get to a place where you're a competitive team, Miles Garrett is entering his age 31 season. You have virtually no chance to be an actual contender until let's say 2028 at the earliest. I would say like 29, honestly. We're a ways away. Right, so he's 33 or 34 years old at that point.
27:14Diante Lee:You can have him play the next three years for your team and that's great. He can just wear one helmet his entire career. He can set all kinds of records in Cleveland. But at the same time, you're trying to build a competitive team. And what moves do you have to actually make for a rebuild to put yourself in position to build a contending team. And for that reason, I thought that the Raiders should have traded Max Crosby. I said that last year. I said last year, the Browns should trade Miles Garrett. They don't have a lot of moves to make. This is one of the only moves they have to make to take a big swing.
27:46Diante Lee:So I actually think this move makes sense for the Cleveland Browns. I understand why they did it. And I would have been a yes vote inside the building if they asked me, should we make this trade? Where are you with the Browns end of it? I feel the exact same way. I think that they did everything in the way that they were supposed to. When Miles Garrett says that he wants to be traded last spring ago, last spring before the Super Bowl, you say, hey, Miles Garrett, that's awesome that you want to go somewhere else. How about a boatload of money to be here, right? And you keep your guy for another year and you can call that a success in the moment.
28:19Now it's obvious, hey, we went all in with bringing in these young quarterbacks to see if we can maybe find a future on the cheap for the next couple of years. Both Shedore Sanders and Dylan Gabriel look like bad starters. And even if they do eventually become good starters, it's not going to be anytime soon. And maybe we need to be a little bit more serious in our approach of the quarterback position once we can get Deshaun Watson off our books, which, oh, by the way, he's still going to count for a whole lot of dead cap once he is eventually released after the 2026 season. And now it is the right thing for them to come back to the table and do what they did this spring and say, hey, let's restructure your contract to buy ourselves some extra time.
28:56We're going to keep this quiet. You'll get all the cash that you need. We'll play the accounting games to keep our numbers good and make sure that you get paid. And then by June 1st, we'll go find you another partner to go play with. Right. I think that that's the right move as well. I think if you're Cleveland, you did all that you did all that you could do, considering the fact that the quarterback you spent two hundred and thirty million guaranteed dollars on turned out to not be viable at all. As a starter, I think they hung on to what should have been one of the greatest, if not the greatest Brown of all time for as long as they could have.
29:28and the runway just went out, right? And it does suck if you're a young Browns fan to have to watch the best player of your lifetime walk out the door. But ultimately, this is just where you are as a franchise. And ultimately, if you can bring back a young cost-controlled player in Jared Burse, plus a first round pick and a couple of top 100 picks in theory, right? As a return for this guy, you're 100 % happy. And as a young fan, I would recommend that now you go get on Reddit and look at all of the people, you know, who are proposing trades for Denzel Ward and figure out what you can go get for your corner before he turns 32.
30:01I thought you were going to say,
30:01Diante Lee:go buy some college football preview magazines, listen to Ringer Tailgate. I mean, that's 100 % on the table. Yeah, your Saturdays are going to be more important than your Sundays this year if you're a Browns fan. CJ Carr, Arch Manning, you know, Dante Moore. That is going to be your life for the next seven months. Yeah, but, you know, the compensation aspect of this, I feel like when a trade happens, everybody feels pressure to either say, like, they got a haul or they didn't get enough and it's like all right i i felt like preparing for this pot like we got to lay this out here and you know add some nuance to it because i was looking at it dionte and i was trying to compare it to the micah parsons trade okay so cowboys got two firsts and kenny clark for micah per micah parsons now i think in this situation you have to count jared verse as equivalent to a first round yeah if they would have just put jared verse on the market and said, Hey, you know, we, we're, we're trading Jared verse.
30:59Diante Lee:I feel pretty strongly that they would have got at least a first round. At least a one, maybe a one and something else. So let's say it's equivalent to a first. So you count your adverse as a first, you got a 20, 27 first, which to your point, great quarterback. That's a big part of this where you're making, why now, why now with this timing? Cause you're getting an additional 20, 27 first. And even if it might be most likely late in the first round. It gives you another chip to potentially trade for a quarterback that you like. And that's the next problem you have to solve if you're the Cleveland Browns.
31:32Diante Lee:So you essentially get two firsts there and then you get a second and then you get a third. This is for a player entering his age 31 season versus Micah Parsons, who's in his mid twenties. I actually think they did really well here. When you look at, when you look at the compensation they got for Miles Garrett versus what the Cowboys got for Micah Parsons. Now, the two teams were in very different spots. The Cowboys, I don't think, should have traded Micah Parsons because I think they're a very good team and they could win a Super Bowl and he's in his prime. Why are you doing that? This is a team that doesn't have a chance to win in the next couple of years and a player who's 31 years old.
32:07Diante Lee:But I thought the compensation was very good from a Browns perspective. What did you think when you looked at it? I did as well. I think if you're looking at the last 13, 14 months of how the Browns have managed their roster, you should probably get more and more excited, right? When you think about trading out of the Travis Hunter slot to be able to go add an additional first round pick in his past draft. And you went out and got Mason Graham. It looks like he can be a longtime starter in this league in an above average defensive tackle. Last year, you'll get Spencer Fanoa to, you know, potentially be your left tackle of the future.
32:38You bring in, you know, a wide receiver. You expect to have Juice and Casey Concepcion. own and now you're talking about trading miles garrett for another pair of first round picks one of which might net you back the quarterback of the future you might be able to package those picks up to go get the exact quarterback that you want i mean i've given edu berry a lot of a lot of flack for being on top of all the analytics and none of the good players because cleveland just always seems to talk about how they're maximizing all their opportunities to get the right guys in the building and then you look at their roster and they never seem to have the guys they need to go win games with out of the draft.
33:11This is, I think, the best way you can manage what is going to be a deep and serious rebuild as far as your first steps. I think that you feel good if you're Cleveland, if this is what the haul is going to be over the last two off seasons. And if that means that we have to part with Myles Garrett to get there, I think that they're setting themselves up about as well as you can ask a franchise that was in the hole they've been in since signing Deshaun Watson.
33:36Diante Lee:Well, you made the key point that they did create this mess. Like they threw the house party, they got caught, they broke the painting on the wall. 100%. You know, they made the mess. There's just, but now at least they are getting the mops. You know, they're getting the brooms. They're getting - The cars are getting towed. The lawn is getting fixed. That's right. And so they are cleaning it up. Now, no, they, again, they were the ones who created the mess, but they are, after having created the mess, you do have to reach a point where if you're going to keep Andrew Barry, okay, what's your plan for now cleaning this up?
34:11Diante Lee:And I think they are on their way to doing that. Again, it doesn't guarantee anything. They could get to next year's draft. They could pick the wrong quarterback. The quarterbacks could get taken ahead of them. There could be teams in spots that just say, nope, sorry, we're not training out. We need a quarterback too. All those things could happen, but all you can do is try to put yourself in position where you fix your team a little bit. And to your point, now they have two 2027 first round picks, which could help you land a quarterback. This offseason, they've added Jared Verse. They drafted offensive tackle in Spencer Fano.
34:43Diante Lee:They drafted wide receiver in Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston. So they're investing resources into premium positions. Last year's draft, they didn't use on premium positions, but it looked like they got a lot of good players in Carson Schwestinger and Harold Fannin and Quinchon Junkin. So you've had a couple offseasons here where you're trying to move in the right direction. and you might still stink for a while, but at least it gives you an option there. So yeah, I think we're on the same page with the Browns. Last thing I wanted to ask you about the Browns, Deontay, is you mentioned Jared Verse earlier.
35:19Diante Lee:What kind of player, like I think it's wrong to look at it and go, well, Jared Verse could turn into next Miles Garrett. No one's going to turn into the next Miles Garrett, but he is 26 years old. He's five years younger than Garrett. I think he has an all pro ceiling, whether he hits that or not. I think that's within the range of outcomes is that this guy could be an all pro and he plays a premium position for you there as well. So I think it was a good player to target for them. Are you sort of on the, are you lower than consensus on Jared Burr? So you, I like him, but I don't love him. Where are you on just the player that the Browns got in this trade?
35:57I think I'm probably closer to like, not love than thinking that he can be an all pro. I think that his style of play will almost always lend towards being high in pressure rate. I think he can always be a good TFL guy because he is very physical. He does have a great first step, right? You get to see the way that he plays with power. All of that's great. I think that ultimately he's going to end up being maybe like a B to B minus version of Will Anderson, right? Which is kind of how I had him pegged when he was leaving Florida State and coming into the draft is that he can play stylistically similar, but he's maybe not going to give you those same peak flashes.
36:31but ultimately if you're telling me that you're going to get a potential pro bowl and maybe fringe all pro player in a trade for a veteran on the way out plus draft capital, this is great. I think that verse is some versus the kind of player that Cleveland can be really happy about because this is the kind of guy that if it were a first round pick instead of verse that she would be hoping to go find right that in the next draft, we can take one of these first round picks. We got into miles Garrett trade and maybe that turns into our next premium edge rusher. I don't think that he can possibly be a bad player with how he plays with his style of play with his skill set.
37:05Even if I do think that a ceiling is a bit lower, I'm happy with what they get back in him on that on that aspect alone. I will say, though, the surplus value argument that I do see was bringing in a guy like verse is really only is really only active for like the next year, year and a half. When your team's not good anyway. Yeah, exactly. Like you're not getting surplus value if your team is losing, but your guys on a rookie deal. Like he's just a nice contract.
37:30Diante Lee:By the time you're good, he's going to be paid like a top 10 in the NFL. And he's 100 % after his fifth year going to be asking for 30 million per year or whatever the going rate is for a top end, you know, edge rusher. So now you're going to be you could possibly be in the exact same situation. It doesn't mean the process is bad by Cleveland's on Cleveland's part. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with verse either as a player. I would just give some pause to people thinking that automatically this is a win for the Browns in bringing verse in. I think that this is the right move and time will tell with the rest of their draft process and how they manage the end of the Deshaun Watson era into whatever is to come next.
38:10We'll ultimately get a better view of who verse is for the Browns maybe two or so years from now, but I don't think you're going to get the kind of instant reaction we can have for Myles Garrett and projecting what that's going to mean for the Rams for certain.
38:24Diante Lee:Your hope if you're the Browns or a Browns fan is that it gets to the point where it's a no-brainer to pay Jared first. And you're just like, this is a building block player in the prime of his career. Yes, let's please pay him as a top five edge rusher. It's a no-brainer. He's one of those absolutely worth it where no one bats an eye and is even questioning it. If it doesn't get to that point, now it's like, now it gets to kind of a bad spot, obviously. It's hairy. with this trade. All right, I want to do a quick lightning round before we move on to A.J. Brown. I'm going to say the team, Deontay, and I want you to say yes or no, they should have done a similar deal or they should have called the Browns with a similar deal for Miles Garrett.
39:06Diante Lee:Okay, now - Okay, I think I know who you're going to bring up in this too. After we do the lightning round, if you have, hey, I have to get this off my chest about this specific team, then let's do that. But let's go through the teams real quick. Just give me a yes or no. The Philadelphia Eagles. Yes. Yes. Okay. The Baltimore Ravens. Yes. Now, the Browns probably aren't going to trade them to the Ravens, but still. Okay. The Chicago Bears. Yes. The Detroit Lions. No. Oh, okay. The Kansas City Chiefs. Yes. Okay. The Buffalo Bills. Yes. man i could just see that one if i'm a pills fan i'm like why didn't we why weren't we in on this 100 the denver broncos oh man he's so awesome that you're kind of your first instinct is to say yes to literally every team no right but okay you know if i'm if i'm george bay if i'm george payton i'm saying no i'm saying no.
40:13I'm taking myself out of it. I'm going to say no.
40:15Diante Lee:We already have a good pass rush. Okay. The Los Angeles Chargers. Yes. And the last one I had, the San Francisco 49ers. Yes. Is Kyle Shanahan looking at John Lynch like, dude, why are they the ones always doing this? Where are we on this? All right. Was there a team in there, Deontay, that you said, no, I actually feel very strongly that on the group chats of this fan base, they should be like, how did we not do that? Like it's the team where you say like, they absolutely, and maybe they were in on it. Maybe the Browns took like the Rams deal. Maybe the Browns like Jared verse. A lot of the reporting coming out is that the Rams were just very persistent.
40:57Diante Lee:And every time the Browns said no, they at least called back and were like, well, how about this? And I think Jay Glazer reported they didn't want to give up Jared first. They actually wanted to make it all draft capital. And the Browns were like, no, we need like a, you know, we need a stud young player who we feel good about. And they got to Jared first, But is there a team in there as we close out the Miles Garrett discussion where you say, I feel like they really should have tried to do this? I will say I have two in mind. Both are in the AFC. The first one is the Bills. Now, obviously, I think the Bills kind of have some cap considerations that make it really difficult.
41:28They've kind of maxed out the pay on their roster and they would have to go through a lot of different trade cut, you know, roster move machinations to even try to fit a Miles Garrett in. But that is why I think if you're a Bills fan, you're losing your mind. Like, you're telling me that we have been white-knuckling trying to get through in the AFC for this long. We have maxed out all these resources. And then when a guy like Miles Garrett is available, we really can't even get in on the conversation because we don't have the cash and maybe not the assets to be able to consummate this deal. So that's the first team I think of.
41:58The second one is the Chargers. If for no other reason than, like, what the hell is all this cap space force?
42:03Diante Lee:I had the Chargers number one, Deontay. What the hell is all this cap space force? How are the Chargers not making this deal? I don't get this. I don't understand what is happening in Los Angeles. Before this offseason, I walked in thinking, okay, they were very smart last offseason. You're bringing in this new regime. You don't want to spend or be frivolous, so you're not in on DK Metcalf or all these other receivers or potential offensive weapons that you could have added to your lineup to help out Justin Herbert. We're now in year two of the Chargers being more proud of their comp picks than the players that they have signed.
42:31This is really starting to get under my skin, right? And I think that Herbert deserves to have a little bit more relief. and they just let, they've let Joey Bosa leave, right? They're eventually, right, they're trying to replace Khalil Mack. There's an opportunity right in front of you to go out and get a game-changing talent that might legitimately change where they stand in the AFC hierarchy. Why are you waiting for Patrick Mahomes to get healthy and reclaim his spot as the first or second best team in this division, let alone the conference? I don't get what the Chargers approach is. And if Myles Garrett is available, there is no first round pick.
43:09There is no cap space that is more valuable than having a player like this who can help my star quarterback get over the hump.
43:16Diante Lee:And listen, there might be maybe they did call. Maybe they were aggressive. It's possible. The Browns said you don't have a player that we like enough to that you're going to trade us. But that was the team as I was going through this exercise. I'm like, man, that really would have made a lot of sense to me. To your point, you're trying to go through Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Drake May in the ASC just to get to the Super Bowl. And like Miles Garrett is the player who can help you do that. You have the coach. You have the quarterback. Like you have the offensive coordinator.
43:48Diante Lee:You think right now, man, I would have been very, very tempted to say, hey, don't make a deal before you call me back, Andrew Barry, because I might be willing to do something crazy here if I'm the charger. So yeah, going through those, man, you can really make a case for a lot of them. The Bills that, like you said, have invested so many, they believe in building the pass rush. They just can't do it. They've tried and they just, they get okay players, good players, but not great players. The bears to me were pretty interesting where I'm like, that would have been pretty exciting. Miles Garrett on the Chicago bears would have been a lot of fun.
44:23Diante Lee:And then the lions, if you're just saying like, Hey, we're not out of it. hutchinson garrett on the other side man that that would have been all these teams for the only reason yeah i'd say the only reason why i hesitated on the bears and definitely said no for the lions is that i think if you're those two teams you're crossing your fingers that max crosby is healthy for the first half of the season and maybe you can go get that on it maybe you can go get a player like that on a discount instead of giving the equivalent of three first round picks to go out and get a Garrett. If you do that, then passing on, getting in on the negotiations for this trade makes a lot more sense.
45:01Without it, I think it probably is a lot harder to spell out the logic for your fans who want to stay in contention.
45:07Diante Lee:All right, let's revisit that one. Week eight, week nine, see if they do something, see if they should have done something there. All right, let's take one more break. We come back and it's time to talk A.J. Brown to the Patriots. All right, we are back here on the Ringer NFL show. So Eagles trade A.J. Brown to the Patriots for a 2028 first round pick and a 2027 fifth round pick. Let's start with the Eagles side of this, Deontay, because they are among the Super Bowl contenders in the NFC. We felt pretty strongly that this got to a point where A.J. Brown's like, it ain't happening. I'm not going back to play for your football team.
45:47Diante Lee:You're trying to make the best of what is a bad situation with A.J. Brown. You weren't sure about the compensation. Now you see the compensation. How should Eagles fans feel about what they got in return here for AJ Brown? I think dissatisfied, dissatisfied in the return, but happy that it is resolved. At least that's how I feel. The second part is for sure. Yeah. I think that that's how I feel as a still quasi Eagles fan, right? Like I think that this always, this needed to happen. There was no way that this relationship could continue forward. There really wasn't any competition in the trade market.
46:27So in knowing that and knowing that Philadelphia doesn't have enough levers to drum up interest to be able to go get a 2027 first round pick like they might have wanted or to get a first round pick plus another day to pick like they might have wanted in return for an AJ Brown. I think that you can walk away from this feeling like this is like the definition of compromise. You got them off. You got a first round pick back in return for him. it's time to move forward you're not going to have the same kind of financial hampering that it would have been if they would have tried to make this move prior to June 1st and I think everybody's just kind of got to walk away from this feeling good on the other side of it though I think that this is a major major boon for New England okay yeah let's get we'll get to the Patriots side
47:09Diante Lee:here in a second for the Eagles it's one of those things when you have a star player who is disgruntled and wants out I always say the first step is to actually try to make it work that you don't just give in right away and say, oh, if the player is a great player, it's very hard to acquire great players. Those are the guys like you just said with Miles Garrett. The whole point of the sport is to get those players on your roster. And so you first try to make it work. I felt like they tried to do that last year with A.J. Brown. Like this didn't just pop up, you know, out of nowhere. This had been...
47:40Diante Lee:It's a two-year thing. It's a two-year thing. It had been festering. It had been lingering. They tried to make it work last year. It didn't work. And it's still a very weird situation. It's hard to talk about it without really getting gossipy, but it's just like, we still don't know. It's like, what happened here? Jalen Hurts was the godfather to A.J. Brown's daughter. They got to two Super Bowls together. They won one. It wasn't going great offensively, but it gets to the point where A.J. Brown is like, so unhappy that he's like, I am demanding a trade from a team that has made the playoffs every year I've been here.
48:13Diante Lee:And I've had 5 ,000 receiving yards over the last four years. So whether it was just Jalen Hurts' performance, whether it was something else. We still don't know all the details, but it was weird that it got to that point, but it did get to that point. So once it gets to that point, you have to figure out how can I maximize value? And I think you're probably right to be dissatisfied with the return here because when that Jalen Waddle trade happened earlier this off season and the Broncos send a first and a third to the Dolphins for Jalen Waddle, and Waddle's only one year younger than A.J. Brown, and Brown has been a superior receiver even last year, but certainly for the last three, four, five years, I felt like that kind of set it at, okay, that's kind of what you should be able to get for A.J.
48:59Diante Lee:Brown. But I think it tells us one of two things, Deontay, because I think we can agree Howie Roseman is good at his job and specifically this aspect of his job, maximizing value for players he wants to move. So it either tells us, one, that the league did not think as highly of Brown as maybe we did, you know, the analyst, the public, whatever. Maybe they're like, no, there's more of a chance of him being a declining player at this stage of his career than we think. That's one. Or two, I was thinking about this. Do the Eagles value future picks maybe more so than other organizations? Because if you're a typical NFL GM, you're like, I'm not getting a 2028 first.
49:39Diante Lee:Well, I might not have my job in 2028. No, I need something now. But the Eagles are, you know, some of the stable organizations, their GMs. No, we're going to be around the leadership. The decision makers aren't changing. And hey, all right, we would love a 2027 first. But if it's a 2027 second versus 2028 first, we want that first because there's upside. Who knows what happens to the Patriots? Maybe in 2027, they suffer a bad injury lock or they lose a bunch of one score games or something weird happens. And now all of a sudden, it's not like the NBA where it's protected. oh, you know, top five protected.
50:12Diante Lee:Nope. Whatever that pick is in 2028, it's your pick. So which of those do you think is more likely that the league kind of viewed Brown, maybe not as highly as we thought they might. When you look at the compensation for other wide receivers, or that maybe the Eagle said, you know what, we're fine with pushing this out because we're kind of different than other organizations. Maybe this is the Homer in me, but I think it's the latter. I genuinely think it's the latter. I think if there weren't the financial ramifications on the line for Philadelphia if they had made this trade prior to June 1st, there would have been a more robust market.
50:45You cannot convince me that the Bills would have rather parted with the second round pick to go get DJ Moore than have given away a first round pick to go get AJ Brown.
50:53Diante Lee:Not to keep ripping on the Bills, Deontay, but that was one of my first thoughts. There's no way you can convince me. Were the Bills not calling Howie Roseman? I mean, oh my gosh. I'm like, that was one of my first things when I'm like, wait, the Bills could have gotten AJ Brown for this versus DJ Moore for what they gave up. That was the one team where, man, I thought that was crazy. You can't convince me that the Broncos wouldn't have been willing to put that exact same trade package on the line to go get AJ Brown to go be their new number one receiver instead of Jalen Waddle. I think that that would have been a better fit for the way they want to play offense, which is more catch and run than bringing in Waddle.
51:33And I think that Waddle's a good player. I just think I'd rather have Brown. And if that was a trade package that was available for Waddle, again, if he's available prior to June 1st, if Brown is available prior to June 1st, why would he not have gone for that, right? Like, I think that 100 % the Eagles were hampered more so than the league telling them they weren't willing to part with that draft capital. The timeline makes it more difficult for them to manufacture the leverage in negotiations they needed, I think, to maximize his value.
51:59Diante Lee:Why does it matter for a team like the Broncos if you have to wait till June 1st? To me, I think it matters less for the Broncos than maybe it does for the Eagles. I think the Eagles would say, I would take that kind of draft compensation in 2027. I would take that for 2027 to bring you in if you're willing to wait. And I think that most of the teams in the league would say, we're not hanging up our wide receiver room. We're not hanging up our cap space after we bring in A.J. Brown and waiting an extra couple of months instead of going forward with what our alternate plans are. that's my read of it right okay especially knowing that philadelphia seemed to kind of been engaging with new england on some sort of unofficial to official basis basically from like the week of the super bowl it seems like right if you're just listening to what the tea leaves were around that time um but from then to now i just think that i think that the eagles got box got boxed in negotiation wise by the timeline and who they were already working with and knowing that aj brown had a select list of places that he would have been interested in playing for right I think that that's one part of it.
53:01And I think the other thing, which is more true, is that if you are Howie Roseman, even if you're taking away the possibility that New England regresses, which I'm not so sold on right now, if you're just thinking about it as Philadelphia, we have to pay Quinone Mitchell. We have to pay Cooper DeGene. We have to pay Jalen Carter. We just paid Jordan Davis. His contract is going to really be kicking in around 2028. We've got all these young defensive players that we believe are going to be our future that are going to count for X percentage of the cap, we're going to have to turn over the offensive side of the ball, especially our offensive line.
53:34Even if we're not bad and the Patriots aren't bad, I want to have multiple opportunities to be able to go get a Lane Johnson replacement. If we need a Jordan Milata replacement at some point, if we need to replace Cam Juergens or Landon Dickerson in our interior line, I want to have as many first-round picks to be able to go do so as possible. Hell, we might have a chance to go get another high ceiling wide receiver who might slip past pick 15 if we're not in the top 15 and if New England's not in the top 15. And Howie Roseman, I think, is maybe not individually, but particularly equipped to say, I can take the long view because the owner of my franchise trusts me.
54:15Right? He trusts that we can do this. Job security. Yeah. 100 it's the same with less need and why he's been able to get by being the gm for this long and basically only ever making like three first round picks in his tenure right since the jared golf uh since the jared golf pick it's the same reason right i think that that long view informs why they would be more comfortable taking a 2028 first round pick and why your standard gm might have just said hey give me the 2027 two so i can say we have a more immediate return on what's departing from our team. And we can call this a win if you give us enough draft compensation around that second round pick for us to kind of twist ourselves in knots and say, it's actually the equivalent of a first round or a first round plus.
54:57Diante Lee:Yeah, I think we can say pretty definitively that a 2027 first was not on the table from, because given how everyone's talking about that draft, no one wants to give up those picks. And certainly teams would want those picks if you're the Eagles versus 2028. I mean, And you didn't mention Jalen Hurst there, but there, you know, there is a possibility. If this doesn't go well with Sean Mannion over the next two years, and now you get to 2028, and now you have two first round picks, quarterback, whether you're using it in the draft or trading for a veteran, that's also just about optionality there for the Eagles.
55:31Diante Lee:All right, Patriots side of this, Deontay. To me, it's a question of how many more prime years does A.J. Brown have? Because if you look at the numbers, I mean, you should be over the moon if you're a Patriots fan, you know, seventh in receiving yards over the last three seasons, fifth in yards per out run over the last three seasons. Even last year where it's like AJ Brown was not a great player last year. He had 78 catches for a thousand three yards in 15 games. That was a bad season. He ranked 13th in yards per out run. Like it's really hard to look at any, like the, the lowest you can kind of get on AJ Brown is like, oh, he's the 15th best wide receiver in the NFL.
56:13Diante Lee:And that's if you're like, which I still think I would reject. I would reject that. Yeah, I would too. So how excited should Patriots fans be here? How cautiously optimistic should they be here? He is 29 years old. Are there injury concerns? Where do you come down on this from the Patriots perspective? Specifically to answer your question about how many prime years he has left. I think that, I think I would bank on two, right? I would bank on him up to his age 30 season, which I still think is a win. If I'm giving away a first round, one first round pick to get two prime years at a premium position, I think that that's overall worth it if I'm talking about a veteran, right?
56:51It would be a different consideration. If it's a younger guy, right? I'd feel even more over the moon. I'd feel like I 100 % got a steal on this trade if Brown is 25 instead of 28 turning 29, right? But I think he's got a couple more prime years. And I think that because you're not inheriting all the major, major costs on this deal, he's going to be playing at a reasonable amount for New England. He also bumps everybody down a peg in the pecking order. And if you're telling me as Drake May, who finished, you know, a hair away from winning an MVP in my second year, and I was competing for a Super Bowl in my second year, that now I've got A.J.
57:31Brown, Romeo Dobbs, Kayshaun Booty, and Hunter Henry as my top four guys target share wise. and now all I have to do is hope that my offensive line is the 15th best in the league. I mean, hell, that's exactly what just won a championship for Seattle offensively, right? Obviously, they're the best defense in the league, but if that was a bar that you needed to clear for the last couple of years between Philly and Seattle on the offensive side to feel like you could contend, I feel like I'm a better quarterback than both of the guys that just won championships most recently if I'm Drake May. I'm over the moon ecstatic to have a number one receiver that can go beat May and that can create after the catch, that can be a third down and red zone target the way that A.J.
58:09Brown is because he has not had that in his first two years in the NFL.
58:15Diante Lee:Yeah, I'm with you. When you look at what they did last year with leading pass catcher, Stephon Diggs, Hunter Henry, Kayshaun Booty, Matt Collins. I mean, this was the group. And like you said, they were top three passing offense by any metric. I know they stunk in the playoffs and I don't want to just sweep that under the rug, but yeah, they were terrible in the playoffs. But if we look at, if you say, hey, Drake May was playing with an injury, that's why they were terrible. Or maybe some of those warts were exposed that, hey, the offensive line really isn't great. Hey, this pass catching group really isn't great.
58:46Diante Lee:Now you can look at it and say for a whole regular season, they were top three with that group. And now it's A.J. Brown, Romeo Dobbs, either Matt Collins, Kayshaun Booty, Kyle Williams, Pop Douglas, whoever, Hunter Henry. You added Caleb Lomu in the draft to upgrade the offensive line. Like that's a nice offseason. and A.J. Brown, Romeo Dobbs, and Caleb Lomu for your quarterback on a rookie contract there. So I think there's reason to be excited. If you're a Patriots fan, I think you have to look at it and say, we are getting a motivated player who has a great relationship with our coach, who wants to play in an offense where all areas of the field are available to him and the ball's going to get to him when it's supposed to get to him.
59:31Diante Lee:And you know what? He's going to be really happy here. there's a chance he's a top five wide receiver in the NFL the next two years if he stays healthy. So you didn't give up the 2027 pick again. No one wants to give up the 2027 pick. So you pushed it a year down the road here. So there is some downside. Like I said, if you have a bad, like if that ends up being, you know, like a top five, top eight pick all of a sudden, if the next two years, like a lot can happen between now and the 2028 draft for sure. but at the same time, I like being aggressive and trying to help out your young quarterback here by adding a player of A.J.
1:00:07Diante Lee:Brown's caliber. So yeah, I think we're both on that. We're both a yes in the room with whoever's Elliot Wolfe, whoever's making the calls there. Yeah, on either side, honestly. If I'm Howard Roseman or I'm Elliot Wolfe, I think I'm saying yes to this deal. I think that you should walk away feeling satisfied on both ends. Well, from the ego's perspective, you're just like, we didn't have a, you know, if you're at the point where we don't have another option, what is the best deal we can This is the best thing we can do. Yeah. Patriots should feel better about it, I think, than the Eagles when you look at it because they're adding the player and they're a Super Bowl contender where the Eagles are adding the idea of a player in 2028, which, again, is a long way away.
1:00:45It could look great. For a team that wants to win a title, you don't want to have to tell yourself, maybe this is going to work out in 2028.
1:00:52Diante Lee:Yeah, you just have to remove A.J. Brown from your offense here. So what a June 1st, Deontay. My head's spinning. You know, I'm not supposed to be at my computer this many hours on June 1st. Miles Garrett traded from the Cleveland Browns to the Los Angeles Rams. A.J. Brown traded from the Philadelphia Eagles to the New England Patriots. I can just see next year Roger Goodell saying, let's have a TV special June 1st. You know, let's capture these trades. We don't, we have, someone will raise a hand. Hey, Raj, we haven't taken over June yet. You know, you're right. Good, good point there. Man in suit.
1:01:29Diante Lee:Yeah, let's take over June as well. How can we do it? Well, remember what happened last year? Why don't we do that again? Great. Call the networks. Who wants it? Highest bidder. So maybe that's what we're in store for next year. But it was exciting. It was a slow part of the offseason to get a nice little jolt here of like massive news. Massive, massive news. This big, this late into the offseason was a lot of fun. All right. Deontay, you're writing about this for the ringer, you said? That's right. I'll probably have a piece up on Monday night. if not Tuesday morning. There you go. Check out Deontay Lee's work at TheRinger.com.
1:02:05Diante Lee:Thank you to everybody for listening. Thank you to Steve Ullman coming up in a big spot producing for us. Stefano Sanchez on video and additional production supervision by Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopal. I'm Shil Kapalya. We will talk to you next time on The Ringer NFL Show.
1:02:29you
From the publisher
Sheil and The Ringer’s own Diante Lee react to a shocking June 1 in the NFL, breaking down the Rams’ blockbuster trade for Myles Garrett, what the deal means for the Browns’ rebuild, and which contenders should have been more aggressive. Then, they unpack A.J. Brown’s move to New England, the Eagles’ return, and whether the Patriots just gave Drake Maye the no. 1 receiver he needed.
(00:00) Intro
(00:53) Browns trade Myles Garrett to the Rams
(23:03) The trade from Cleveland’s perspective
(35:52) Would you make that deal?
(42:25) Eagles trade A.J. Brown to the Patriots
(52:36) The trade from New England’s perspective
Host: Sheil Kapadia
Guest: Diante Lee
Producers: Chris Sutton and Steve Ahlman
Video editor: Stefano Sanchez
Production supervision: Conor Nevins and Arjuna Ramgopowell
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