Week 3 Backup QB Rankings With Steven Ruiz

0:00Welcome to the Ringer NFL show. Sheil Kapadia here with Steven Ruiz. We have a theme in week three. I think we have a theme in week three and that theme is backup quarterbacks. I think we've already got five of them. Jake Browning for the Bengals, Carson Wentz for the Vikings, Tyrod Taylor for the Jets. We think Marcus Mariota for the Commanders and we think Mac Jones for the 49ers. So who better to have on to talk about some of these backup quarterbacks than Steven Ruiz. Ruiz, who is the most entertaining? Like the guy you're just like, I'm going to tune in to see what that guy does on Sunday if you had to choose one.

0:39Steven Ruiz:I was going to say that's a tricky answer because you have to weigh between like performance, like how good they are and how entertaining they are for maybe like bad reasons. So I got to go with Carson Wentz. Like who doesn't love the Carson Wentz meltdown? It's always good. Carson Wentz is the correct answer. Yeah, that's who I would go with, whether for better or worse. And we can get into that. but I think it's going to be an adventure either way. So we're going to talk about these guys who can keep their offenses afloat, who's the most interesting, what we're looking for. We'll do all that when we come back.

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3:26All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL show. So let's start by doing this, Ruiz. Ranking one to five, just based on, because the backup quarterback's job is like, try to keep the offense afloat and give your team a chance to win. We're not expecting these guys to be, you know, throw for 400 yards or anything like that. So if you had to rank them, based on kind of what they're being asked to do, taking their situation into account. Browning, Mac Jones, Tyrod Taylor, Mariota, and Wentz. How would you rank them one to five based on how confident you are? And I did the same thing. So let's see where we disagree.

3:59Steven Ruiz:Yeah, I think I would go with Mac Jones first, just because I think he's the one, the most obvious system fit. I would go with Jake Browning second. We're probably going to get into my reasoning for this. That's why I'm not really explaining it. We're going to go with Jake Browning second just because we've seen it. We've seen the Bengals offense exist with Jake Browning and it worked. And then I'll go Marcus Mariota based on the small sample size we have. I've seen him last year come in for Jaden Daniels. And then the last two. Either way, I don't think it makes much of a difference with those two.

4:34Steven Ruiz:So that would be my order. And I feel very confident in saying Mac Jones, I would say. I think it's a gap between him and the rest of the guys. Okay. I had Mac Jones first as well, and I was going back and forth going, wait, do I actually believe this? We'll talk about him in a second. I had Browning too. I had to Rod Taylor and Mariota flipped. I want to talk about more. We've talked about the Mariota thing before, so I want to get into that. Now we got to maybe get a bigger sample of him in that offense. And then I had Carson Wentz last. But why don't we start with Mac Jones? Because you said you feel like he's first, and then there's kind of a gap after him.

5:07Obviously, Mac Jones played last week. I thought he played pretty well, especially for a backup. They beat the New Orleans Saints, and now they get the Cardinals at home, and the Cardinals secondary is pretty banged up. What did you kind of see from Mac Jones in his first start in that Shanahan system?

5:23Steven Ruiz:I think we saw what we wanted to see out of Mac Jones, what we thought we would see back in 2021 when Mac Jones was floated as Kyle Shanahan's favorite quarterback prospect of all time or whatever, the best fit for Shanahan's team ever. What a time that was, by the way. What a draft. 2021, the quarterback debates, and none of them mattered. That's the best part. None of them mattered. They were all bad. But I do think we saw sort of a similar situation that we see when Jake Browning has gotten into the lineup for the Bengals. Obviously, Brock Burry is a better quarterback than Mac Jones, and I think Joe Burrow is a better quarterback than Jake Browning, but the offense just functions in a way that I think is more closely aligned to what the coaches want.

6:06Steven Ruiz:And I think you could have said that about Brock Purdy two years ago when he was really operating the offense at a high level. But we saw last year, you know, he kind of took things into his own hands more often. The scramble rate went up, time to throw went up. And it wasn't really the Brock Purdy we had seen in 2023. But I think Matt Jones kind of gave you something closer to that style of quarterback play. And it really allowed the 49ers to flourish in the way that you would expect it to flourish with Kyle Shanahan calling the plays. Yeah, he was 26 for 39, 279 yards, three touchdowns, no interceptions, three sacks.

6:39You know, there are little moments in there where you're like, all right, I could see like a three turnover game coming if he has to play for a month type thing. At least I thought with Mac Jones and some accuracy stuff. But overall, you're right. He had this slow start and then he kind of settled in. And I think Shanahan, if he had to, you know, he hooked him up to the lie detector. He wants a robot. I think we all know he, but then he was like, well, do I want a robot or these, some of these other guys in the system have some creativity. Those Aaron Rogers years with the Packers and Purdy was doing some of that last year, but I think certainly for a backup Shanahan's like, just do, you know, do what I tell you to do, get the ball where it's supposed to go.

7:18And I thought Purdy did a nice job there. It was a 69th percentile game based on EPA per pass play 51st percentile game based on success rate against the saints. So it's really keep the offensive float. You have Shanahan, you still have McCaffrey and do the things you're supposed to do. So yeah, if he indeed does play Purdy, I think they haven't ruled out completely yet, but I think the expectation is that Mac Jones is going to play against that Cardinals defense. I'm with you. I would expect him to play pretty well given the setup there. And then Browning was the other guy you mentioned. I remember we've had these conversations before and it's certainly true that Zach Taylor, it feels like.

7:56He's like, all right, Burrow's out of there. I could do, you know, let me cook a little bit. I can do the things I want to do. You've certainly brought that up before with Jake Browning.

8:06Steven Ruiz:Yeah, yeah. And I certainly don't think that Jake Browning is a better quarterback than Joe Burrow. And I don't think the Bengals are in better shape over long term because there's always an expiration date when you're doing things that are dependent on scheme more so than talent. And that's going to be the case with Jake Browning. But in the short term, I do think it's going to give the offense a little bit of a boost. We're going to see them go under center more. That's what we saw when Jake Browning played in 2023. We're going to see more screen passes that get the, it gets the ball in Jamar Chase's hands immediately.

8:32Steven Ruiz:You're going to see, I think, more play action shots. You're going to see less of the spread stuff that puts a lot of strain on the offensive line, which I think is like the under discussed thing with Joe Burrow. PFF move, Timo Risky, the PFF analyst, I mean had a good thread on this where he was basically pointing out that like what makes Burrow so special is that you could put that strain on the offensive line in the pass game where the defense knows, like, we got to be in pass rush mode. We got to play coverages that are, you know, you're selling out not to stop the run, but to stop the pass.

9:01Steven Ruiz:And Burrow could still operate play after play after play, which is like very rare in this league. And it helps the Bengals tremendously, but it does make the offensive line's job a lot harder. Like it's harder to be an offensive lineman when you're not running play action, when there's no threat of the run. Or it's not that there's not a threat of the run, is that you're more worried about the pass. So I think the offensive line will perform better. I think he'll get cleaner pockets than you would have seen with Joe Burrow. I think where it's going to hurt is when they go up against the good defenses that could scheme that stuff away.

9:31Steven Ruiz:And then you don't have Joe Burrow, you know, in the drop back game to kind of fall back on. But I do expect to see a different style of offense. And maybe Zach Taylor will be able to cook a little bit. Yeah, we definitely saw that in 2023, their play action rate went up. And you're right. I mean, offensive line play, If you can go under center, run play action, not pass at such a high rate. I mean, even last year, their pass rate was crazy on early downs. And to your point, they made it work. They had a very good offense. If you have Joe Burrow, you can make it work. But I think without him, you got to change some stuff up.

10:03You're probably going to have to try to get that run game going a little bit more on early downs using play action on early downs. But I mean, Browning of all these guys as a backup has had like the most extended run where he had that seven game run in 2023. And it wasn't bad. You know, if just statistically, he was kind of middle of the pack, their offense finished 11th in DVOA. And so I think if you're a Bengals fan, like I don't think they're going to stay afloat just because their schedule is really hard the rest of the way. But you can talk yourself into, hey, maybe we can hover around 500 by the time Joe Burrow comes back.

10:38But man, going to Minnesota against Brian Flores in this spot is not going to, it could get ugly for Jake Browning right away.

10:49Steven Ruiz:Yeah, and that's going to be rough because it's going to be the first time we see him. So I just think Bengals fans are going to be like, oh God, we're done. We're cooked. And like, no, I don't think you can base anything based on what it looks like against a Brian Flores defense. I think Zach Taylor is kind of preemptively, you know, he's got out ahead of this by being like, nobody else does what the Vikings defense does. This is like a very unique situation and game plan for them. And he was also asked about like the schematic changes. He kind of downplayed it and was like, oh, well, we really asked the quarterback what they want.

11:18Steven Ruiz:And when Browning's the backup, they still kind of ask him what he would like, even when Burrow is healthy, because there's a chance that he's going to play. And he was saying, it's usually not that different. But Zach, we could see the difference in the play calling. It's drastic. No doubt about it. All right, let's take a break. We come back. I want to talk about the other quarterback in that game, because it's Bengals-Vikings. And you mentioned Carson Wentz at the top. And to me, this might, yeah, I think this is the most intriguing of all these guys. So let's take a break and talk about Carson Wentz.

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13:11Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks. If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required. Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis.

13:43Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Trimphia today. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trimphiaradio.com. All right, we're back on the Ringer NFL. I was just thinking, Ruiz, I didn't think that this season I was going to be saying, let's take a break and come back and talk about Carson Wentz. If you would have asked me July or August, I didn't think that was going to be part of the conversation this year. But J.J. McCarthy out for two to four weeks with an ankle injury. Vikings host the Bengals.

14:19Vikings traded Sam Howell in the summer, signed Carson Wentz. And Wentz has been everywhere. I mean, I was just thinking earlier today, What a bizarre career from with the Eagles goes 11 and two in their first Super Bowl season in franchise history. Then a couple more injury riddled seasons, disaster in 2020 gets traded to the Colts, then goes to Washington, then starts a game for the Rams in 2023. Then starts a game for the Chiefs last year when it didn't matter in week 18, week 18. Now in his age 33 season and per the athletic first quarterback in NFL history to start at least one game for six different teams in six seasons.

15:01And I think what's most interesting is that this is the team where we talked a lot about Sam Darnold last year and kind of the coaching and the setup. So what do you think? How does this go? I mean, he's the hardest guy to predict on here. I feel like the other guys are a little bit easier with the range of outcomes. Carson Wentz, I'm not exactly sure what we're going to get from him.

15:20Steven Ruiz:Yeah, that's why it was tough for me to separate him and Tyrop, just because I think those guys are most like the players they're replacing. I don't know if that's more insulting to Carson Wentz or J.J. McCarthy based on how J.J. McCarthy started the season. But I think there is a clear difference. And I think you can make the case that Sam Darnold and Carson Wentz kind of have a similar thing going on. I agree with that. The physical talent is there, but you don't really trust them to make the decisions, especially in the pocket, the deeper you get into a play. But I think the key difference, especially as it pertains to how it's going to affect the Vikings offense, is that Sam Darnold will hold on to the ball a little extra.

15:59Steven Ruiz:He's not necessarily going to move. He's doing it to make a throw downfield, and he's going to take a hit. I think Carson Wentz is going to try to move, buy himself time, find a clean platform, and then make that throw. And that's when disaster usually ensues with him. So I think that it's not going to look anything... I'm not going to make the same argument I made for Sam Darnold before the season last year. compared to J.J. McCarthy. But I think there could be some improvement because it's a better version of what we've seen from McCarthy early on, where McCarthy is kind of holding onto the ball a little bit too long.

16:30Steven Ruiz:His accuracy isn't what you want to see out of a quarterback. I think there's questions about the types of throws he can make downfield, whether he has that dynamic ability to layer the football and stuff like that. So I think Kevin O 'Connell is going to be dealing with the same issues that he was kind of dealing with, scheming around J.J. McCarthy. I just my question is like how much does like the veteran factor kind of help him out there and I don't know because it's Carson Wentz and we really haven't seen him play a lot of football since he was in Washington but the last time we saw him play football that man could lose a football game in an instant I hadn't thought about that Darnold Wentz comp I actually like that a lot it's like you know to steal your term they got a little bozo in them uh for sure and you don't trust them and there could be you know if you're watching red zone or something all right let's go to Minnesota and they're just like, Carson Wentz tries to buy time or scramble and oh my gosh, throws into like, you could just picture that, you know, that was always sort of in his game.

17:27And I wonder, like, I feel like when he was early in his career, he was so confident in just his physical abilities. And that ended up being a negative because he had injuries and he's still trying to scramble and then he's taken on more hits. It's like, no, you don't have that anymore. Like you shouldn't be doing that. I wonder what this version of him looks like at age 33. You know, what does he look like physically? Because he could run, he could scramble when he was younger, before all those injuries. The arm is strong. The physical tools have been there. He's played a lot of football, to your point.

17:59The difference with J.J. McCarthy, like he's seen a lot of coverages and blitzes and nose protections and all those things. So it's a weird mix of all these things. He's been in these different systems too, where it's just like, I don't think it's going to go great, but I also want to see just what it looks like.

18:16Steven Ruiz:Yeah, I think this is a better measure of like the Kevin O 'Connell quarterback whisperer thing. It obviously hasn't worked on J.J. McCarthy through two games, but I think the rookie factor is the thing we're kind of ignoring with like the reclamation project thing because Sam Darnold had obviously played a lot of football and seen a lot of things, like even the backups he was dealing with the year before that, Josh Dobbs, we elevated Nick Mullins, he kind of got more out of. Those guys had played football and you could do different things. I think with Carson Wentz back there, even if he is like as unreliable as JJ McCarthy has been, which is probably harsh for Carson Wentz, I think they're just going to be able to do more stuff with him.

18:55Steven Ruiz:So I do think it's going to improve. I just don't know if it's going to improve in a meaningful way. And I think the other part of this is that like the environment isn't as good as we thought it would be due to injury for the most part. The offensive line, Derrisaw is not in there. Obviously, Ryan Kelly went out of the Sunday night game. So I think that's another factor. And it's hard to have high expectations, but it's also hard to just have any expectations because we haven't seen wins, as we said. Yeah, those O-line injuries could be a big deal. I mean, we'll see if their left tackle, Christian Derrissaw, comes back.

19:23But if he doesn't come back, their backup was also injured. So now is it, are they going to have a third string left tackle in this game? And then Ryan Kelly, that's just kind of a scary situation. This is the center. This is his fourth documented concussion, I believe. So you got to obviously treat that very carefully and see what the future holds for him. But to your point, the offseason narrative was, hey, they fixed their interior. This could be a really good offensive line. And here we are in week three, and it doesn't look like that's what, you know, Carson Wentz is going to be playing behind.

19:53So we'll see what that looks like. Let's talk about Marcus Mariota, because you and I last year, you know, had a, I'm saying, Jaden Daniels is making everyone else look good. And you're saying, no, he's not. The schemes are helping him out. And then I looked bad because Marcus Mariota comes in against the Panthers and puts up like a 40-burger. And I'm like, damn it. It's Carolina, though. Yeah, it was against Carolina. So I'm like, it was against Carolina. Settle down. But now we might get to see him again against the Las Vegas Raiders. If Jaden Daniels cannot go in this game, what are your expectations for Mark?

20:24Because it's kind of like the Vikings. It's not the same offense for the commanders as it was last year. For the commanders, you could argue it's upgraded at some of these spots. What's your confidence level that he can make it look like some version like you made it look last year? Not nearly as high as it was last year when he came in.

20:44Steven Ruiz:He also came in at the Week 18 game against Dallas and kind of led them back after Daniels had kind of struggled in the first half. But we have seen early on that I think the schematic advantages that Cliff had kind of sprung on the league just because they hadn't seen him really after the Thailand trip. Who knows what happened in Thailand? But the guy, I don't know, maybe he learned some more ball or something. But he came back and obviously had something that defensive coordinators couldn't handle. But so far early in the season, we haven't seen it provide those same benefits. And I think Jaden Daniels made it work in week one because of the scramble thing.

21:18Steven Ruiz:And I just think he has like outside of Lamar Jackson, he has like the best ejector button. Like when he wants to get outside the pocket, he just teleports outside of the pocket. And Mariota, like he's a decent runner, but he doesn't have that. He doesn't have generational speed. so I'm a little concerned that he doesn't have that superpower to kind of supplement the scheme if it's if it is figured out and it's only a two-week sample size I don't know they went up against Green Bay which could be the best defense in the NFL but watching the film back there wasn't really a lot open on field on the on the film and I thought there were some some schemes that Green Bay used that Halfley used that could be replicable for other teams like I thought we saw a lot of like cover two.