Bryan Cranston: Breaking Bad, Malcolm In The Middle & Falling In Love With Acting

24:08So Fox says, we're going to pick up the show, good news, and we just want to replace the dad. Let's replace the dad with someone else. Linwood Boomer, much to my appreciation, said, that's not happening. No, he's the guy. They go, no, but he's not. No, no, no, no, no. He said he absolutely refused to fire me.

24:31Romesh Ranganathan:That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And also pretty unlikely because, you know, if I was writing, if I was making a show. You'd fire me? Well, I wouldn't fire you, but I'd fire. Well, I would. You could have fired me. If it's between, you know, if it's make or break for the show, listen, you did it well, but you got to go. I want a series. But that's amazing that he did that. He did that. And he, he, he, well, he told him, he said, I just didn't, I didn't flesh out that character enough, but he can do it. Trust me on this, you know. And any successful actor needs a champion in their lives. And I've had several, and that's how it happens.

25:11You need a dose of luck to have a successful career. Without luck, you will not have a successful career.

25:18Romesh Ranganathan:No, sometimes people don't acknowledge that enough, do they? You've got to be in the right place at the right time and have people support you and go, no, no. And so Linwood Boomer resisted that and said, that's not happening. He's the guy. You got to trust me on this. And they went, okay, if that's so important to you, kind of begrudgingly. Did you know that at the time? Was that something he said later? No, he kept it from me. And I found out later, and I was appreciative that he kept it from me because I wouldn't want to step in going, I'm this close to being fired. I better be funny. It's like he did the right thing.

25:57And I'm forever grateful to him because I'm so exceedingly proud of that show and how well written it was. And I think what made Malcolm in the Middle work is that at the core of it was love. It's not something we put on our sleeve or we wore because we bickered all the time and fought. And, you know, but the core of it was love that you knew the audience knew this family when push came to shove would support each other. Yeah. And they had dinner together at the table and, you know, and it's like, yeah, that's that's what it is. It's it's that now that the audience knows that now you can go crazy.

26:40You go anywhere.

26:41Romesh Ranganathan:How did you find Hal? Like, you know, you talk about finding a character. What did you do to get him? I try to find the emotional center of a character. And once I find that, then I can grow from that. And it was really difficult because of the lack of the amount of lines that were in this first episode. And you're doing a pilot episode. It's just one. And it sits. And it's just there. And so trying to find it, I go, well, Malcolm, it's called Malcolm in the Middle. He's the lead guy. And then the next person is really Lois. The wife is this sergeant of arms. Don't mess with her. I'm going to take charge of this.

27:25And it's like, well, how did these two get together? What was the attraction? And I thought, and then I realized, what if I write like a little column of what Lois is? So I got a piece of a pad of paper and I wrote down, she's tough. She's not afraid to fight. She's fierce. She's honest. You know, she's all these things. And I went, so maybe, and I just wrote the opposite of what Lois was. This is just something that came to you. I'm just going to try and do this. It just kind of came to me. So I wrote Hal and I go, tough, soft, weak, fearless, fearful. Right. So I just started doing the opposite of what I knew she was.

28:23And that's how I made this character. That's amazing. Yeah. So Hal became fearful and it's like, oh, that's it. He's afraid. He's afraid of not pleasing his wife. He's afraid of being a bad father. He's afraid of losing his job. He's afraid of spiders. He's afraid of heights. He's afraid of loud noises. He's afraid of... And it's like, oh, I can springboard from this. And that's where the germ of the idea started. And I was able to then just go from there. And then they started writing to that. Like, oh. So he would make these sound like, you know, someone would come in and say, ah! You know? Jeez.

29:05You know? At the same time, I thought, okay, so if he's the opposite of her, like she shows that she's, you know, like I go, what if, and softness, I'm showing, she shows she's impenetrable, he's vulnerable. He's, you're right. And so I'm doing all these. And I go, what if he is just madly in love with her and just absolutely adores her? and that's the the the common foundation and and she softens to that and she realizes she can't live without me and i can't live without her yeah that does come across because

29:49Romesh Ranganathan:you sort of think what you're describing those opposites yeah that could be an unconvinced if it doesn't feel you know it could be a not a very nice relationship right you feel well how did they get together they're so different but the fact that they are so different yeah and he's just such a supporter of hers yeah you know is an incredible thing there's there's a an amazing scene or amazing little tiny little snippet that sort of summarizes exactly what you're talking about when i don't know if you remember it where hal comes into the kids room lois is screaming about something and he says i'll give you ten dollars if you take this for me i'm not going to tell you what it is but one of you yeah ten dollars to say that it was you he's just a little boy and so it carried over so once i found that we went to wardrobe and she's saying oh you're you're you know you were naked because they had to shave me and stuff but now wearing the clothes going into the series i said i i looked over and i saw the boy all the boys underwear in various sizes little dewy all the way up a little and i go oh i should wear those too i should wear tidy whitey underwear and and so that's why he's because hal was just a big boy but he was a boy he was still a boy that's so good and then you transition then when when mal when breaking bad came along and i went to the to the wardrobe call and and in the in In the script, Vince Gilligan wrote, you know, in that first pilot episode, he steps out in his tighty-whighty underwear.

31:34And I at first went, no, no, no, let's not do that. Let's not do that because, you know, I did that for seven years on Malcolm in the Middle. And it'll be like just a carryover, you know. But for some reason, I'm always in my underwear or naked. I'm always naked or in my underwear. Good for you, man. I respect it. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want me to. This episode is brought to you by White Claw Surge. Great podcast pick, friend. No surprises there. After all, you're all about finding the tastiest flavors out there, just like White Claw Surge. And with big, bold flavors to enjoy, like blood orange, blackberry, cranberry, and more, it's time to go all in on taste.

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33:18Romesh Ranganathan:So good, so good, so good. You could, you're then, you've then set your stall out as a great comedy actor, right? And, you know, let's not even mention how great you were in Seinfeld. That's, you know, you sort of think about how hard it is to have a career as an actor. You could have quite easily, that could have been you then, right? You know, you're doing comedy parts and being revered and, you know, you have all the plaudits and being successful shows. after doing Malcolm in the Middle, your name would get a show bought, right? Would get a show commissioned, you know, to a certain degree. I think that's a stretch at the time, but yeah.

33:56Romesh Ranganathan:But you're certainly a seal of quality in terms of comedy. What made you then pivot in the way that you did? Was that a very deliberate thing that you thought the next thing I do or whatever I do going forward is going to be so completely far away from this? Yeah, extremely deliberate. I knew that I want a long career and the way to have to extend your career and to do things that you really want to do to pivot from comedy to drama or for the mediums to change from television to film to theater to, you know, you keep moving. Yeah. So that no one can pigeonhole you as, oh, Ramesh just does comedy and he just does the radio.

34:40That's it. You know, you have to break out by you doing this play opens that door. Yeah. Oh, oh, I didn't know he did theater. Right. And it's like, oh, oh, let's consider that for, you know, I mean, and next you should do some drama. Oh, did you just we yourself a little bit? A little tiny bit. Yeah.

35:06Romesh Ranganathan:But that's why I think, you know, when I sort of think about you going to Breaking Bad, not just a drama, but it's such a challenging part, that character. So did you have to hold out to get that? I mean, were those parts coming to you or did you have to wait for it? No, what happens naturally is that whatever you happen to reach some measure of success now becomes your hallmark. It's like, oh, yeah, Ramesh is the comedy guy. So you have to keep breaking that image so that you have opportunity to do other things. When Malcolm in the Middle finished after seven years, I got two offers to do two comedy parts as sweet, lovable, goofy dads.

35:51And I was in no way tempted to even read the script because I said, really? I would just be derivative of myself because at this moment, that's what I've been doing for seven years. I need a break to get some kind of change to myself and age so that I don't do the same thing. No, drama. I'm looking for drama, drama only.

36:21Romesh Ranganathan:So you told your agent and all your people. Yeah, they all knew. And I was offered a drama called Nurses, which was about a bunch of randy nurses and doctors in a hospital. And I was the head doctor, I guess. He was having sex with people in the – I mean, if I just wanted to make out with a girl, that would be a great role to take. But I was, all these, it was, everybody's having sex. It was like a, like Grey's Anatomy, but really sexed out. I mean, much higher. And I thought, wow, this is wild. And I go, I don't want to do this. It's an offer, but this is not the role for me. And what I really want to do is that role that Vince Gilligan wrote called Breaking Bad.

37:19before Malcolm in the Middle, I did a guest star role on the X-Files that he wrote. He was on the X-Files and he wrote it. And he wrote this character that I played to be this horrible, despicable, racist, anti-Semitic human being that is just awful. And for some reason, Duchovny, David Duchovny was in a position to be able to save me or let me die. And the audience would normally see my character written as very nice and sweet so that the star of the show would want to save me. I want to save this man because he's a lovely man. And the audience would go, yeah, that's nice. the star would want to save the lovely man and they would passively watch that happen.

38:12That's not Vince Gilligan. Vince Gilligan makes that character a horrible human being so that it puts an emotional and ethical question in the heart of his lead character, his star. Do I save this man just because he's a human being? That changes everything. He would love to see me just get out and go. I would love to see you just die because you're a horrible person. But he can't do it. So he empowers his lead character with this choice. Do I save this man or do I not? His character won't allow him to not save this man. And that's the difference. So that's when you take that kind of twist into it.

39:05And that's what all of Breaking Bad was. When the audience goes, oh, he's that? Oh, this poor schoolteacher who's down on his luck and has to have a second job and he's got a special needs son. His wife is pregnant and he's lonely and now he's got terminal cancer. Oh, my God. This poor bastard. I'm rooting for you. And he gets the audience on board. Yeah. Right. And now you're on board. Now I'm going to take you for a ride. And we take him for a ride and we start testing him. What if I did this? Would that be okay? Yeah, yeah, that's okay. What if I make crystal methamphetamine because I know I'm dying?

39:51Would you still, the audience, be with me? Well, yeah, yeah, because I know you're dying and you're going to support your family when you're gone. Okay, what if I did that? What if I pushed it a little more and pushed it a little more and a little more? And then there's an inflection point when the audience goes, oh, I can't take Walter White anymore. I'm switching my allegiance and I hate him and I hope Hank finds him and I hope this happens. Or I'm still with him. I'm still with him. I meet fans all the time that I never lost faith in you. They said, I was with your character all the way, to which I say to them, what the hell is wrong with you?

40:39I did some horrible things. Yeah. And he changed physically, emotionally. His ethical line was blurred and moved. It was fungible. and then all of a sudden you know at the end when he wants to see his wife one last time and she's oh don't you dare say that you did it for the family and he says no I did it for me and I was good at it and he finally accepts the darkness within himself yeah that was probably within all of us at all times you just need the right triggers the right buttons to be pushed before that comes out in you right i think it's i think we're capable of lightness and darkness yes yeah the idea of good and bad people feels like a fantasy right it's nature and nurture i mean it depends on on how you're raised and your education level and and and the parental guidance and all that stuff before you got breaking bad was there a point at which when you're waiting out for this

41:47Romesh Ranganathan:part that you want was there a point in which you started to lose faith and you thought maybe i've just got to give up and do something no really no no because and i say this to every young actor i said they're they always ask me what's what advice would you give me and i said fall in love can you fall in love are you in love with acting yeah do you dream about it that's what love is You dream about your partner. You dream, oh, God, I can't wait to see him or her. It's like it's, and you want to be with them. You want to be, right? You want to spend the rest of your life with them. Well, that's acting.

42:24If you're not willing to fall in love and go all the way and spend the rest of your life with it, I can save you a lot of time. Step away. Yeah. Because if you're one that says, I'll give it a year, see what happens in a year. I say back to them would you tell a potential romantic partner I'll give you a year if we turn out okay then we can go on and we'll see how it goes no person who has any self worth would say okay

42:55Romesh Ranganathan:I'm currently on a three month renewal with my wife are you? I think it's going okay but you never know she could terminate the lease at any time it keeps you on your toes that's the only way you're you're in good behavior that's the only thing i deserve brian yeah oh i mean breaking bad is and and again when we're talking to somebody like you i'm nervous of saying giving you the platitudes you must have heard so many times it's it's such a remarkable show all of the characters have such beautiful story arcs and the way you describe walter white's journey is amazing is that thing of being with him being with him being with him and then at the and you want to be with him right and there's moments where actually I felt as a viewer I felt a bit I felt a bit awkward about the fact that do I am I rooting for this guy in this situation you know you actually yeah it actually makes you ask questions of yourself right you know where's my line yeah exactly and you and actually you're sort of slightly being tested by the show yeah because it's you know what's so satisfying about it is at no point does the show ever say to you and most in my opinion most tv shows do do this they go this is how you should feel this is the person you should root for this is who you should be angry with and we're going to show you how that all pans out yeah and there's a comfort in that you can't get comfortable watching breaking but you know it never says to you this person's a bad person this person's a good person you don't know even like the really bad people that walter white encounters like the people that are really ensconced in the drug then you see a bit of their family life and you sort of go well that person's had a similar that you know they've come from similar they look they you see them loving people right and and you see a and you go oh god like you know there's so much to that the thing that is that i find the most remarkable about it is is with what you know you talked about walter white's journey you are nudging the viewer along this thing but you you and the writers and the makers of the show you're inside it how much discussion was there about you know are we showing too much are we pushing it too much this way you know because you're walking it's a high wire act right that show when you're with an auteur a really a he would he would deflect it and say no that's not but he's a genius vince gilligan the what he can put together and how he influences his staff of writers.

45:27It's brilliant. There's no discussion. We do what Vince wants to do. Right. But when you're getting A-plus level material, shut up. Just read it. Don't bump into the furniture. Show up on time. Be respectful. Don't be a drinker. You know, and just follow the breadcrumbs. Yeah. They will lead you to the promised land. And that's Breaking Bad.

45:55Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. That's what it was. We read it. You get inspired by what you're reading and just perform it. And there might be a little nudge this way or a little nudge that way. Or, you know, there were very few disagreements. I think I wrote in a book 10 years ago, I wrote a first novel, not a novel, a memoir. and I said I think there were like three times that I had an argument or disagreement and it was just it was going from the theoretical because that's when you write it when writers are writing something it's all theoretical I imagine this to be this and I imagine the house to look this way and I imagine the height of this actor and I imagine you know that it's all theoretical when you actually shoot it now it's real and it's and and so the theoretical description doesn't always match the reality of the situation.

46:50Those were the most arguments that were, it's like, well, this can't be because this, there was a scene when Hank was in the, he got, oh, he got hit by the car, by the two twins, right? The brother, the cousins. And he was in the hospital. And we have to read it. And there was a scene where it was described as three chairs in a row. And I was on the end and it didn't work. because we're in a row and one of the character had to keep turning their heads like this to look at you and then to look at you. And it's like, no, we should triangulate this. So we suggested to put me in the middle so that as Skylar is telling this lie to her sister, I'm watching by just a shift of the eyes to see if she's buying it.

47:40She is. And I'm amazed that it's Skyler for coming up with this lie so quickly. I was like, and it just worked. But theoretically we tried it in the row and it just didn't work. And it's, if I tell you that that's like the typical argument that was great, that's nothing. It is not the fabric or the depth of a character. That's all written. That was brilliantly placed before us. And you know, when it's good and that's why I wanted it. I wanted it badly. And so I did a little thing that my agency was in on. And that was in this. Remember, this is in 2006. This is before, you know, smartphones and things like that.

48:28So we said, what if we what if we let AMC and Sony know that I have an offer to do this show nurses and it's on the table and they need an answer quick and that I'm considering it? I'm thinking of doing it. Then they would get back to them. And sure enough, it got back to them because they were going to hold an audition with me and five other guys to audition for. And it got back to them. And Vince said, he's about to take this other job. The guy I want is about to take this other job. You've got to make the offer to him. And they had just been convinced because they said, wait, you want the silly dad from Malcolm in the Middle to be Walter White?

49:11Are you out of your mind? And he had to physically send them the disc in those days of my episode on X-Files to say, watch this and tell me that that's the same guy as the Hal from Malcolm. So they watched it and went, oh. And he goes, yeah, that's what actors do. so they finally so not to lose Vince Gilligan's choice they made the offer to me and I went that worked good that is good

49:43Romesh Ranganathan:it was nip and tuck there I mean what would have been horrible if you get a note saying good luck with nurses which they did the pilot and it didn't sell and that was it and that's the thing I mean listen I know you're being very um uh modest about it i just do think that shows a lot of courage actually to go for that personally but and and when you when did you realize how i mean you knew it was good you went for it yeah you were you knew the script was excellent you're desperate for the job you get the job at what point you know because that is that's left an indelible mark on television breaking pad was there a moment was there a moment when you kind of realized yes well there was there are two moments there was a moment when I realized wait people are starting to watch this show we were a little show shooting in the desert of New Mexico and no one knew us really and but we had great critical acclaim but there was no not many people watching because they couldn't find it it was on a cable channel that people who were trying to find.

50:54And when I noticed it was starting, it's when you're driving to a location, a film location, there are signs that the location managers and staff put up on telephone poles and things like that. Breaking Bad with an arrow. Oh, I'm supposed to turn here. This is before GPS. And it's like, oh, I'm supposed to turn here. And there's another arrow going that way. Oh, Here's where I'm supposed to go. When those signs started to be stolen, I started going, why would someone steal a sign with an arrow? And because it had Breaking Bad on it. And then they switched to BRBA with an arrow. And those signs started to get stolen.

51:41And I went, what's happening here? There must be a reason. And now it's like then they put up a sign like the mayonnaise commercial this way. And they would tell us, the sign will say mayonnaise commercial or something. And that was one thing. But the thing that really changed the turn the tide for Breaking Bad was Netflix. Right. We got the Netflix effect. And it is a real thing. In 2008 or 9, Netflix changed from sending out little envelopes. I don't know if they did it here in the UK, but there were envelopes with the discs, the movie on it. And you'd pop it into your DVD player and just send it back through the post.

52:29They switched from that to streaming. When it went from just a finger, bing, and there it is. And all of a sudden, they had to have these tiles up to show, oh, this is getting great reviews. Oh, I heard about that. I've never seen it. And they start watching it. And that's what changed everything. When Netflix went to streaming, we were on it and it's like skyrocketed. I will always be grateful to Netflix for what they've done. I mean, that was the turning point in the success of Breaking Bad. And is it true that you got the pizza on the top of the roof first go? Yeah. That one scene, I forget which episode that was, but there was a massive pizza.

53:14And he says, you got to throw it up on the roof, but you can't be trying to throw it. It's just out of frustration. And I went, and it was so heavy. Oh, my God. So I said, well, I think I can do it. We're going to put monofilament on it so we can pull it. Well, let me try one where there's no monofilament on it. And they placed the camera. I see the camera and I see where you want it kind of. And so, and I just flung the thing as hard as I could. And I didn't see where it landed because I don't care at that moment as Walt where it landed. I just wanted to. And I get in the car and I pull out and I drive away and I hear the chatter on my walkie talking in the car.

53:55Oh, my God. It's like it's perfect. It landed perfectly. It could not have been more perfect. And everybody was so stunned that the director. I forget who directed that episode. but the director said okay good oh my that's I you really can't do better than that let's go again

54:23why I'll never be able to do that again you know that that will never happen again

54:31Romesh Ranganathan:so we didn't do it again it was like if you got it you got it let's move on so that was that yeah And obviously you've gone back to Malcolm in the Middle. Would Walter White ever come back? Are you open to that? Walter White has come back many times. I thought when we finished the series and he dies caressing his equipment, his chemistry equipment and his true love, I thought, well, that's the last of him. But no, they did El Camino, the movie El Camino, know, to figure out what happened to Jesse once he drove away, which I thought was a great idea. So I was doing a play in New York. I flew secretly on a private plane to New Mexico.

55:17And under a cloak, they met me at this airplane, two steps off of the stairs into a black SUV. Off we go. Went to an Airbnb. No one knew I was there. They picked me up in the morning. We put the bald cap on for two days, and I was flown back to New York to go do my play again. And it was great fun, a great idea. So I did that. And then I did a commercial. I did a couple commercials because they offered ridiculous money. And I love doing theater. But you end up losing money when you do theater. You end up, you go, oh my God, it's costing me so much to do theater. Okay. But so they offer you a ridiculous amount of money.

56:08And I often say, don't make a creative choice out of financial need. But if it's a financial offer, that's fine. Do that. So we did it. And then I did it again recently. Oh, I did it for Better Call Saul. When that show came on, I came back and that was the same thing. Aaron and I were hustled in on a private jet. We couldn't go anywhere. We had to call a certain number, a production assistant. They would get our food and deliver it. Everything was secretive. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, it was fun. But I think that's it. But that's what I said when he first died. So maybe not. Who knows? he might come back

56:56Romesh Ranganathan:now I don't know how aware you are of my mother but she always has a question yes I understand she does have a question and I don't know what this question is I just want to be clear on that it's just because she's a liability sometimes so I'm just being crystal clear I don't know what's going to happen okay good hi Brian this is Romesh's mum I heard lots about your show. Interesting to hear that you make drugs in your show. Any other hobbies you have in your real life? Love to meet you one day. Have a wonderful and blessed day. Thank you so much. Bye-bye. Bye, Mom. So my first takeaway is how casual she's, I heard you make drugs in the show.

57:51Like, she's okay with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's all right.

57:54Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, that's not, that's not, yeah, that's not, no, she's not as angry about that as she would be if you had a girlfriend before university. That really, that really. You're speaking from personal experience. That really sets her off. So do you have any other hobbies? It's the gist of the question. I want, you know, the answer to that is I haven't developed any hobbies for the last 30 years. Right. I've been working so much and I've just enjoyed the work so much that it's like I don't have time. I'm reading scripts, reading texts or performing in them or with my family and traveling or whatever.

58:35But it's like it's just been. And now I want the hobby I want to. What I really want to do is I want to learn how to cook. I don't know how to cook.

58:46Romesh Ranganathan:Okay. And I don't think I should leave this planet before I know how to do that. I'd love to learn another language because I think that would be just fascinating to be able to talk to someone in a different language. So and I play a little bit of the drums, but not to an extent where I would feel comfortable sitting in and jamming with someone. You know, it's like, no, no, no, no, no. I just do it for my own thing. So I think I'd like to stretch and grow in that area and do those things. Yeah. It's cool to, I think, learning something new, whatever it is, is nice, right? Yeah. I mean, I think that's the goal in any lifespan.

59:33Yeah. If you stop learning something new, you start to die. Yeah. And the older you get, the more courage you need to accept that you have to keep opening up. Like the CEO of a major corporation, a 65-year-old man who voluntarily says, I don't know how to snowboard, so I'm going to have this 17-year-old boy teach me. He's now my teacher. And I'm opening up to not knowing. And that's great. There's a technique called the Alexander Technique that a lot of artists use. And it goes, I'm probably paraphrasing it, but I use it a lot to keep myself open. And it said, if you only do what you know, you will never do what you don't know.

1:00:27Yeah. And that's a simple phraseology, but it's true that if this is the pattern, this is what I do, this is what I do. and the older you get you have a tendency to close that up even more and you start disregarding things that you might not think yeah you're into like new music or new art or new is oh that's not what i was raised with that yeah yeah that's uh the new clothes i don't know i don't need that uh keep it out keep it simple and you have a tendency to to keep your routine the same and that's when you start to die.

1:01:01Romesh Ranganathan:I need to start, I need to learn the piano or something. Now, can I talk to you about AI a little bit? Sure. Now, you've spoken quite publicly about this, your feelings towards it, and you had your image used in AI generated videos. It continues to do. And that is something that, you know, I think that it feels like it's something we're all battling with right now, And people don't really know what's going to happen and what the limits are. When I say limits, I mean moral limits as well as technological limits. What's your kind of current take on it? How are you feeling about it right now? It's a tool.

1:01:40Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. When the hammer was first created, whenever that was, I'm sure people are, what is this? You have a stone connected to a stick and you're hitting. But that seems to work. That's a great tool. But Igor just clubbed, smashed his friend with the hammer. It's like, oh. And it's like, oh, you misused the tool. AI is the same way. It has tremendous potential. And it's not even potential. It's here. So it could be used for a tremendous amount of good. So I'm not anti-AI. But there does need to be some borders. borders. If you misuse AI, like misusing a hammer, it could cause tremendous damage, either to intellectual properties, you know, something that I've done or written or is taken or my voice or my image or something.

1:02:40It's like, wait, I don't want that out. I want to have control over those things. So you have to have guidelines. Guidelines are good. There's no good parent that doesn't include guidelines when raising a child. And so this is no different. You have to set it up to say, well, let's put it within here. Because if you go outside these lines, this is really dangerous. And then it's unwieldy and you can't control it.

1:03:10Romesh Ranganathan:It feels so difficult, doesn't it? Because it feels like it can be used so easily. If I wanted to, if somebody wanted to make a video of you saying something that sits in direct opposition with how you feel on something, that can be done fairly easily. And some people would, you know, there's people that feel like they can sniff it out. And sometimes when you really look at something, you go, clearly this isn't the guy. But when you're, say for example, you're scrolling on that as you go through a load of, as you're consuming a load of stuff on social media, you don't have the same level of scrutiny.

1:03:43Romesh Ranganathan:It feels difficult to see how that's going to be properly kind of regulated. It's like letting the genie out of the bottle and trying to put him back in. It's going to be impossible. And what you were saying about at the current state of the quality of the technology, if you really look at it, you can see it. That's getting better. Yeah. And pretty soon you will not be able to tell. Well, the metric is Will Smith eating spaghetti, right? Or meatballs or whatever. Is that what it is? Yeah. Yeah. So like they showed it from like a few years ago and it looked so crazy. Wanky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then every couple of years they do.

1:04:19Romesh Ranganathan:And now, I mean. He's eating spaghetti. I think they might have just got him in there. Yeah. It's mad. Okay, we've got a little game for you now. Okay. It's called Misquoted. And the good news about this game is it means that we're coming to the end of the, in case you're starting to get fatigued. That's great news.

1:04:42Romesh Ranganathan:It's misquoted. Okay, so it's a few quotes here. Some of them are true, some of them are false. And you just have to guess what, and then it leads to some light chat. Okay. But, you know, it sort of helps kind of build our rapport. Arguably, you know, it's probably quite late in the net. Yeah, to build it. To build it now feels... Especially when I got such a lovely...

1:05:08Romesh Ranganathan:So here's your first one.

1:05:13Romesh Ranganathan:I love playing pompous asses asses my British accent I love playing pompous asses did you say that or did you not oh I see I didn't quite catch on with the game I'm supposed to say whether I said it or not these are all your quotes sorry I think that's probably true it is true you said it to the AV club website I love playing pompous asses I think I would like that on my tombstone. He was the definitive pompous ass. That's pretty funny. It is funny. Once in a while, you know, I can get one in there. I want to do a Broadway musical because I got rhythm and I got music. Okay, I didn't say that. Now, the first part is true.

1:06:01Romesh Ranganathan:That's right. Very good. But the second part is not true. Yeah. I want to do a Broadway musical. This is Deadline a few years ago. I want to do a Broadway musical because it scares the daylights out. Yeah, that's true. Have you done it? You've not done it, have you? No, I've never done it. But that's what it is. It's like, okay, here we are coming to the end of the line. I'm 70 years old. And, you know, maybe 20 years. Do I have 20 good years left? You're asking me? Well, let's be realistic. Yeah. I'd be 90 years old, dude. But you look like you got it in the tank. Look at you. Come on, man. Come on.

1:06:38Hey, come on. But realistically, you know, it's like if you can get to 90, hey, good on you. Yeah. But so I've got 20, maybe 15 years of good years. Or 30. Oh, man. I don't know what you're. Yeah. I mean, maybe AI will help this old man get to 105 or whatever. Yeah.

1:07:04Romesh Ranganathan:But you think you might do it? Yeah. What are your musical? what's your musical chops I'm a baritone right and I you know it's like characters like Javert in Les Mis or something like that are appealing to me but I don't want to just just step in and do that playing the king in Hamilton or something sounds like it would be fun to do but you know that would be I mean if I went to watch Hamilton and you came out I would lose my mind yeah that part's incredible It's a great role. Oh, my God. Jonathan Groff did it wonderfully. Yeah, so good. Okay, here's your next one. You're not alive if it's not affecting you.

1:07:48Romesh Ranganathan:I didn't say that. Well, okay. I mean, I'm going to be honest with you. It's slightly unfair. It's talking about fame. You said in an interview, you're not alive if it's not affecting you. Well, then I did say that. Yeah, you did. Yeah, you did. Well done. Can we just snip that out? Let's just pretend we're not. You're not alive if it's not affecting you. Did you say that? Oh, yes, I did say that. Yes, I did say that. How do you feel about it? I mean, you're super famous. I don't know if I'm super famous. You're one of the... Cynthia Erivo cannot go anywhere. Well, I'll tell you this. When I said that we had you on the podcast, without fail, you say you got Bryan Cranston on the podcast.

1:08:34Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, my goodness. Yes. Well done. Really? Yeah. Oh, that's nice. That doesn't happen for many people. If people say, I've got Ramesh Rang Nathan in the podcast, they go, yeah, makes sense. He's doing everything. You know? Yeah. Have you? Yeah. Why? You know, stuff like that. So that's your, you know, that you're doing well. Oh, well, that's nice. But one of the things that's amazing about you is that, you know, I've done it a bit on this chat. but people coming up to you and they almost can't process all of the you know the things they want to say to you you know that you're very good at dealing with that how do you how do you find sort of being on the other side of that do you find it challenging you know um there has over the course of 25 years or whatever that i took acting classes not one of them taught you how to be famous or how to behave yourself as a celebrity.

1:09:28So it's one of those things like it's kind of like being a father for the first time where you go, oh, my God. And you have all these emotions and feelings. And how do I do this? And let's see what I remember, what I saw my older brother do or whatever. And you kind of just have to wing it and get used to it. And there are certain ways to deal with it um i choose to go out and and greet everybody who comes to my plays um personally because a couple reasons i want them to keep coming to theater live theater that's an important thing for me and uh i i especially when they're young when i meet young people and they're going I'm a big fan of your – I've never been to a play.

1:10:18I met a middle-aged couple that had – this was the first play they had ever been to. Middle-aged. They're well into their 40s, probably late 40s. Yeah. First play ever. And I went, wow. And I didn't – I said, this is fantastic. Will you come again? Yeah, we had such a great time. Oh, good. But mostly it's with the younger generation because we who are in the theater community need to get fresh blood in, fresh stories from all walks of life. And to convince them, whether you're an actor or writer, director, producer, is we want to hear your story. Tell me your story. Tell it well. And we'll come.

1:11:03I want to see it. I want to experience that. and so that's why I do it but it's interesting when they say I will have people I'm taking a picture next to and I could feel them shaking and they're going I don't I go it's just breathe it's okay just breathe you're all right you're all right and then I just can't believe I'm talking and it makes me it reminds me it's like what a wild journey I'm on that some woman or man is saying, I can't believe I'm talking to you. I forget. And then I'm reminded to it and I forget and I'm reminded again. So it's, you know, you try to live as normal a life as you possibly can in this very abnormal environment.

1:11:48Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. It's tricky, isn't it? I think you have to, obviously I'm not talking from any level of experience the same as yours, but I do feel like you have to forgive however the other, almost however the other person acts and when they're meeting you because absolutely they've got adrenaline going you know you just they can't be you sort of can't hold them accountable for what they say it's a high level of tolerance yes like some people they'll come in they'll they'll show me they'll say you got to see some yeah and they'll pull up their sleeve yeah or yes lift up their shirt and there's a tattoo of walter white on their chest or something and i look at it and i go and i'll yell out to the rest of the people online i'll go hey how many of you have a tattoo of me huh you're no fans you know and it's just just something to keep it alive and light and have fun okay uh if you're a celebrity you're being touted here and there and your partner kind of holds on to the tail that's probably true you said that to the gentleman's journal oh yeah 2025 yeah it's um And it's an interesting thing.

1:12:56When my wife and I met 40 years ago on a TV show, she was an actor. And she was working more than I was. And it was a nice balance because she would work, I would work, she would work, I would work. And whenever she was working, I enjoyed picking up all the responsibilities that she took for housework. And I'll do the shopping, I'll do the whatever. And then when I'm working up, she picks up what I need. And it was a great partnership. then I hit and it would and Breaking Bad went and now Broadway or West End and it's like oh I've hit a certain we're now off balance sure it was it was this and now it's this and it stayed this way um that doesn't really go over on a podcast when you say it was this and now it's

1:13:50Romesh Ranganathan:For those listening, his hands are getting further away. Yeah. Yeah.

1:14:00I know because of the cameras, I think it's only through, you know, the visual media. But no. OK, so we're we're not on the same level. And I thought, OK, this is it. And she's my biggest supporter. And she's like, go, go, go. In fact, when I said they want me to do all my sons in London, she goes, oh, you have to do it.

1:14:23Romesh Ranganathan:You have to do it. Yeah. And I go, that's a great partner. And it means that she has to adjust her life to accommodate mine. And that's been going on for 30 years. And now I need to climb down off the rungs of that ladder and meet her, not as a plus one, but as my equal partner and see if we can get some kind of balance back. That's something you're consciously trying to go for. Yeah, consciously. I'm definitely aware of it. And I consciously have to make my decisions based on that goal to do that. And it's not so much I indicated by dropping down. And I guess that is in a way because the celebrity puts you up in a cloud and you're treated differently and oddly.

1:15:20And ironically, our daughter is now experiencing some of that because our daughter is an actor and she's on a very popular show in the States right now called The Pit, where she plays a doctor in it. And she's getting these accolades and this attention. And I hope that she was I know she was. And I hope that she's watched how we've managed to keep our marriage together and and deal with the the oddity of it and the imbalance of it and how you try. You have to keep doing it. And I think that's the thing that every adult is always looking for anyway, is how to balance your life, how to to give. attention to yourself, to your partner, to your children or your parents or your neighborhood or your work.

1:16:13It's all about trying to find those levers and keep them somewhat balanced. And how many times you wake up and you go, oh my God, my body feels like I'm the sludge and I haven't been to the gym in ages and I got to lose a little weight. And it's like your body's out of balance and you got to try it. And that's the way all the way through life. Speaking from a 70 year old you know i'm telling you that that it and it gets tougher as you age to achieve the balance yeah oh that's terrible news well it gets tougher but you but now i have a little more

1:16:49Romesh Ranganathan:conscious awareness of it you know that you've got i know if you're if you're if there's a deficit somewhere you know you've got to address it you're recognizing it yeah exactly uh okay well look that That was Miss Quote. You did very well. Congratulations. Now, Brian, it's been a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks, man. Hasn't it? Best guest we've ever had? Boy, I should have a card for you. Are you lying or telling the truth? Best guest you ever had? No, genuinely. Look, in all seriousness. Smile if you're lying. I know you can't. In all seriousness. Yeah. No, in all seriousness. all of us were so excited to have you on the show.

1:17:32Romesh Ranganathan:Thanks for much. And I do want to say, and this is a bit of an embarrassment, but thank you so much, man. You've provided so much incredible stuff. And we didn't even get to talk about the studio, which are unbelievable. Oh, yes. But thank you. Yeah, it's amazing. You've been interviewed a lot. We're always trying to look for something that you might not have said in another interview. Would you mind just, is there anything that you've not said or declared? Oh, it's interesting because I will say this, that I don't think I've mentioned this before, but when you first start out as an actor, your ambition is very high and your opportunity is very low.

1:18:08Here I go with the hands again. Yeah. Very high, very low. If you get very lucky, that opportunity skyrockets often past the level of your ambition. Sure. And so you're like, oh, my God. Oh, offer, offer. And now you're dealing with something that's exciting and you don't have to audition anymore. They're offering you, oh, my God. And you're reading it. What's the best one of these? And what about that? And it's like, great. But then you can keep busy and you get on like a hamster wheel and you just start working and working and working. And that's something that, again, it's about seeking balance.

1:18:45When I stop to think about it, to answer your question, it's like there are a couple of things like that Broadway musical I want to do. whether here West End or Broadway. You know, I've looked at Lear, and I think I'm in that position now. I'm in that age where I think about it, but I would have to read the play again, and I would have to have a different way in for me. If I don't want to say, oh, his Lear was like this Lear, like that, like two years ago, that Lear was done then. I just don't want to be an also ran. And I don't want to copy anyone who's done it brilliantly before me. So it's like I'd have to figure out a way that I don't think has been done before that I'd like to see if that could work riskier.

1:19:38But I think that there's a lot of different things. And I think those are the two, the musical and then maybe Lear. I'd like to do it maybe in the. in New York in the park for six weeks and out in the open air. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, it's kind of nice.

1:19:57Romesh Ranganathan:Well, look, it's been a genuine honor. Please give it up for Brian Cranston, everybody. Thank you so much for watching this episode of the Romesh Ranganathan Show. I've been told that some of you are watching this, enjoying it, wallowing in it, but you still haven't subscribed. That's mad behavior. You're going to miss episodes. Very silly. So follow and subscribe to the Romesh Ranganathan Show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. We drop new episodes every Monday and Thursday. On Monday, I'm here with amazing guests talking about their career, what they're up to, having a laugh with them.

1:20:27Romesh Ranganathan:And then on Thursdays, I'm joined by my mum, widely regarded as the audience's favourite Ranganathan. And we answer your questions, your stories and your family dilemmas. So I'll see you on Thursday when I'm back here with my mum, Shandy. Send your questions and stories to podcast at rangabee.com. Voice note or text on 07731 623 355. We genuinely love hearing from you and there's a good chance you'll hear yourself on the show. See you next time. Oh, shut up, Romesh.

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