Chris McCausland: Strictly Magic & Why You Shouldn't Care

18:50Romesh Ranganathan:When I did my first Live at the Apollo, Sean Locke was hosting. And I was like, same as you, just like really, I can't believe I'm doing Live at the Apollo. This is mad, this is mad. And you know when you do the photo in front of the garage door or whatever that says Live at the Apollo on it? And so I think it was Marcus Brickstock was the other act. And so the three of us did our photo. And then Sean Locke said to me, how are you feeling, Rahm? And I said, I'm just like, it's actually embarrassing now to think about it. I said, I'm so excited. I'm so, like, really looking forward to doing it and just getting out there.

19:22Romesh Ranganathan:And I said, how about you? And he went, couldn't give a fuck, mate. Have a good one.

19:30Yeah, but do you know what? Like, that attitude is, I think it's a good attitude because, like, listen, Sean did give a fuck, right? And he, you know, his writing was incredible. He obviously worked hard at what he did. Yeah. And the real magic is in not only letting the audience think that you don't prepare, like you don't put the work in to make it look like it's off the cuff. Yeah, it's falling out of you. But also one of the big revelations I had was to not give a fuck as much as I did. Because when I cared too much about things, it's your own anxiety around how much you care about things going right that is the biggest thing that can trip you up, if you know what I mean.

20:17And so like when I was doing stand-up in my early years, I'd always worry more about, you know, being blind, getting to the stage and starting the gig than I would about the gig itself. You know, in case I looked incompetent or clumsy or the microphone wire was wrapped around the mic stand or there was a bit of a hiccup. And the audience seeing my nerves if something wasn't, if something was a bit clunky or clumsy would then let them know that I was uneasy. Yeah. and that makes them feel uneasy it does and when I kind of just flicked that switch in my head and realised if I don't give a fuck and I show them that I don't care everybody's a lot it goes better for everybody and you know to put that into kind of an example like if I went on stage and the microphone lead was wrapped around the stand and I tried to untangle and it was thinking I just don't let the microphone stand up to someone in the front go untangle that for us well you would be here all day do you know what I mean and then the audience go oh well he doesn't care but by not caring it allows you to care more about the things that you do care about yeah I feel like

21:25Romesh Ranganathan:that was the same thing for me man I was like you know you go and mock the week or whatever and then in your head you'd be going to mock the week thinking I hope that I hope this goes well so they get me for another one and then if they get me for another one then maybe someone else would book me and da da da and then the moment that I just thought oh who gives a shit You just go and have a good time on this, and that's the only thing you're in control of, and be relaxed and just do it. That was like a breakthrough moment for me. It's like if you go into these things and not start getting caught up with what it means, you're just better, right?

21:57Yeah, and like, you know, Mock the Week is a very, you know, people turn up with scripted material on Mock the Week. Yeah, I love it. But whereas when you're doing a lot of the shows that are a little bit more improvised, even like if I got news for you, you know, The best thing you can do on the Have I Got News for You is listen to everybody else and join in the conversation and play the game and not think about jokes you might have about news stories. And the more you can enjoy yourself, the more people enjoy watching you. Yeah, yeah. Rather than sat there concentrating on a gap to get you joking that you thought of two days ago.

22:32The more you can just enjoy being there, the better you'll do and the more people enjoy watching you tell you and that's what works, isn't it?

22:39Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, or you get sort of stuff online calling you a smug prick. But, you know, it's one of the two. But I enjoy either. Chris, my mum has got a question for you. Oh, I wonder. I mean, now I know I've made it, mate. Yeah. Congratulations. It's happened. She sent in a voice note. Let's hear it. Okay. Hi, Chris. You're absolutely wonderful on Strictly Calm Dancing and my personal favourite last year. could you try and teach Romy some basic ballroom moves I want him to do Strictly next year? Maybe try and get him excited about it for me, please. Thank you. The way that my mum said you were a personal favourite is like she discovered you.

23:29Romesh Ranganathan:You were some underground thing on Strictly. It was also like she was reading it off something. It was like an ISIS video. She has done a couple of those, actually. Like she was a hostage and she was being told to read this out. Please, Chris, I love my family and please could you teach Romy some dance moves. Please release them. I am safe and I have been given water and food. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are kind but firm.

24:07Romesh Ranganathan:Mate, what are you doing? I don't think so, no. And I know, Chris, you're surprised that I'm saying no to something. But I don't think so, no. Not currently. But you never say never, right? Never say never. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, how the hell did you do it? How the hell did you do it? Well, the way you say that, you don't think you do it. I said no to it a load of times. Right. I kept on saying no. Why did you keep saying no? Well, first of all, I didn't have an emotional attachment to it. It was never a dream. Didn't know anything about it. Literally nothing. I mean, I knew Shirley because I'd sat underneath her on blankety blank.

24:50Nice. Even on episode one, the other judges didn't know they were. I was saying to die. During the filming, I was saying to die. So which one's that one then? She's gone, Craig, he's the mean one. yeah honestly that first results show when we're in it and i didn't have a clue because i'd never i didn't even go back and look at it on the telly to see the format because i thought if i know nothing about dancing i'm going into this as a blank slate i'm gonna go in and learn the shows and go in the longer and then that'll be funnier yeah and even that results show i'm stood there what's happening now die what's happening now and she was talking me through it and i was going well We've still got more.

25:25It's still going. But I didn't know what it was. I like trying to like look at anything. Traitors. You can explain it in a paragraph.

25:35Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Strictly, you can put it as a dancing show, but you can't explain what the dancing is. You can't explain what is required of you. What's the level? What's the technicality? How good do you need to be technically? What lifts? You need to be able to see it to go, oh, that's what they want from me. Right. So they were asking me to do it. I thought, it was ridiculous. I don't know what it is you're asking me to do. When they asked you to do it, did they have an idea of how you were going to do it? No, no, no, no, no, no. So, and this is what annoyed me, is that, listen, on one hand, I believe in representation.

26:09Yes. And I believe in representation across mainstream programming. So when the biggest mainstream TV show comes and goes, we want to represent blindness on it, I was like, are you out of your mind? I didn't mean that. Yeah. I don't mean in a dance competition. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what are you thinking about? But listen, representation is only good if it's positive. Yes. Right? If I go on that and it's a disaster. Like, I was on with Paul Merson and he was brilliant. He was so much fun. But he got a lot of slack because his dancing was a bit dad dancing or whatever, you know? And that's fine. People can go on it and be whatever they want and kind of be judged as an individual.

26:50whereas if I went on it it ran the risk of being a disaster like if it's not possible like a slight angle we kind of end up breaking the dance halfway through or going off the dance floor or whatever all these things were a possibility in my head so it's not just the fact that I can't dance it's the fact that like blind people, disabled people are not capable of things and it sends out a really bad message

27:12Romesh Ranganathan:you're actually reinforcing possible preconceptions yeah yeah yeah and for me like the whole point of representation there's a whole thing isn't there if you can't see it you can't be it right which means that if people can't see other people like themselves on the telly they can never aspire to have them dreams i get the value in that right but i think the bigger part of representation is education it's about people who aren't like yourself seeing people like you in a normal way you know whether that's race sexuality disability it's not about you know asian people seeing asian people on the telly back in the day it's about white people and it's about able-bodied people seeing disabled people competing and being capable so that's that's where it is for me um and so yeah i didn't know if it was possible and so i kept on saying no and then um this is what happened is they kept on asking and i knew listen they're obviously asking me because they didn't say it but obviously it's because i'm blind they want a blind person on it right so you know there's plenty of other straight white northern male comics, you know?

28:18So it's obviously that. If I keep on saying no, they will find somebody else who's blind to do it, whether it's Paralympics, whatever it is, right? And I kind of knew that, like, apart from the dancing, I could do it positively and with comedy, and I thought it needed that, yeah? And if somebody else went on it with a sub story and a little violin and a piano back, oh, I lost my... I knew I'd be furious with myself, right? I was like, honestly, mate, and I was like, I'm torn between this thing now of disaster on television and jeopardising what I had. I mean, I was playing the Shepherds Bush Empire and doing a tour of 1 ,000-seater venues and then...

28:59Smashing it. But if people see me and feel sorry for me, who wants to go and see a comic they feel sorry for? So I'm torn between jeopardising that, but then running the risk of being annoyed at myself because somebody else goes on it and does it with a... does represent it differently to how I would have represented it. And if I know how I want it represented, why don't I just represent it myself? That's why I do so much telly.

29:21Romesh Ranganathan:I don't want other Asians getting those jobs. Yeah. I'm in your joke, but it is a concern, isn't it? It is a concern. Keep the windows and the doors shut. Yeah, absolutely. Do not erode my USP, you know? And then actually the process of doing it. I mean, because the honest truth of it is, Chris, without kind of gassing you up too much, The way every single time you're asked about it, you were funny. You didn't make a sob story about it. And what you've just said about representation on there, I think you nailed that, you know, in terms of like, you weren't going for the sympathy vote. You weren't doing any of that.

30:02Romesh Ranganathan:In fact, you kind of really felt like you made a concerted effort to avoid that. Having said all of that, that stuff, Chris McCausland can do, you know in his sleep the big thing is you've actually then got to be able to dance right that's the other difficult thing i mean that was the complete unknown if it's you representing uh people with sight issues by going arse over tit every week that you're not doing the job right so so how did you navigate that so this was the i mean we didn't know people that asked me and die she'd never danced with taught anyone blind before i'd never danced i knew nothing about it and it was trial and error.

30:40And we, I mean, honestly, like me and Di, we hit it off straight away, right? She's daft, she's funny, she's smart. And we were both on the same page and I said to her, listen, if we're going to do this, like we can't be doing mediocre, right? We need to do everything else everybody else is doing and if possible, we need to do more, right? Because we need people to go, wow, how did they do that? and we either need to nail that or we need to go out in a blaze of glory trying, right? But there's no point in dumbing it down because it achieves nothing. And I said that to her and she went, great, my thoughts exactly.

31:18Right, this first dance, what I'm going to do, I'm going to do a cartwheel into you. You're going to catch my leg in midair. You're going to put... I said, hang on a minute. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's dial that down a little. So we had this thing And so we train in an empty room, you know, and I can hear Di breathing, counting, existing around me. And then we're going to go into the studio and we're going to do this dance with a screaming audience and a band. And not only can I not see her, but I then can't hear her. And you can't practice that. Yeah. Right. So you can't practice that environment.

32:00So we're going into this live show. We don't even know if it's going to work. It's the most nervous die there's ever been about anything. She can see the colour of my skin. I've gone grey, right? Every time she talks to me, it's like a satellite delay before I grunt back at her. That walk from the marquee where you're allowed to have a little run through your dance to the studio, it's like Dead Man's Walk, mate. It is like the Green Mile. And you're being led to your execution. And it's the most terrifying thing I've ever done in my life was our first episode, right? And I'm waiting to go on. Now, the good thing that me and you have and other comedians is that we are used to, I call it flicking switches in your head.

32:40Yeah. You're used to going into performance mode because we're not always in the mood for comedy. You know, you feel under the weather, you've had an argument, you're tired, whatever. You've kind of got to go into performance mode. So I knew I could flick those switches out of anxiety, out of fear, you know? Yeah. But Di didn't know that, so she's panicking. We're in the studio. They're playing the video training video for everyone to watch at home. And I'm stood there behind this microphone where we are. It's meant to be a mock-up for the Cavern Club. And that's where I'm starting. And Di's over there by a table.

33:13Like, this is how we're starting the dance. And Al, who's the floor manager, who's Brian Conley's brother. Al Conley, yeah. He's the floor manager. He's like, he goes, 30 seconds. And I'm stood there. I thought, right, let's get the crowd going. So I got the crowd going. Make some noise. If you're going to make some noise, make loads of noise. 20 seconds. And I thought, I need to get a laugh here. I need a laugh because I just need to feel like me. So as we just got to the end of the VT, I walked away from the microphone towards the corner to overly comically pretend to throw up. To show the audience that I was shitting myself, but that I was being funny with it.

33:53And I did that and the audience in the studio laughed and Di was like, he's not near the microphone. And I wandered back to where, like, oh, luckily enough, retread my footsteps and got to the microphone and I felt good because I had that laugh. Yeah, I'm a needy bastard, mate. I'm a needy bastard. Yeah, we all are, mate. And just as he goes, five, fours, wait, and it went in. Most terrifying thing I've ever done. But this is the thing, is that when you get through that dance, it's like a perfect storm of the relief and the release of the nerves the relief of getting through it without messing it up almost the pride that you feel of what you've just done the knowledge that your friends and family and everybody's watching it in that exact moment and then this wall of noise from two sides of the room hitting you it's a lot mate and you go from that depths of fear to that exhilaration and I've never felt anything like it it's such an overwhelming rush and your reaction will change depending on what the dance is and what the mood is.

35:01Sometimes you'd celebrate, you'd cheer, I'd lift dye in the air, you'd celebrate. Other times I literally had to hold on to her until I could talk on the telly. I thought my throat closed up, my eyes would water and it was so emotional and it was so overwhelming and I managed to keep a hold of it for the whole, every week. Sometimes I'd hold on to her and I'd say, hang on a minute before I could go and have a laugh with the judges and stuff like that. And weirdly, it was, do you know when you talk about the straw that breaks the camel's back, it's the little thing. We did some big endings on them dances.

35:36She'd hang upside down on me and all this kind of stuff. We did a Viennese waltz to Nothing Else Matters by Metallica and it was in the semi-final and Diane choreographed this dance and all we did at the end of that dance, and we got that far, we were on the cusp of the final and for the final note of the dance all we did was just hug each other and it was so simple and I just fell apart, I was in tears man and there was no putting me back together literally it was the smallest gesture of a hug and I just, that was me

36:16Romesh Ranganathan:is that because of what you managed to achieve? I think everything that we'd done together to be there in that moment. And that sense of camaraderie, of pride, of achievement, whatever happened, whether we got to the final or not, and that we'd done everything together. Yeah, and honestly, I was a wreck. I was a wreck, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it makes me emotional thinking about it, but it was a lot, mate. Yeah, it was a lot. One of the things, if I'm being honest, I'm slightly cynical about Strictly about, is you know when they do the interviews at the end and they're always if you'd have said to me I was going to be doing the Paso Dobli on movie week I wouldn't have believed it and they're sort of crying and stuff but it does make you emotional hugely mate yeah like hugely but it's it's in a lot of ways it's the exhilaration it's the rush of adrenaline it's the pride it's the relief of getting through it it's the release of the nerves it's the do you know that noise there's 500 people you play to thousands of people we both have you know Yeah, very quiet when I do it though.

37:24No, but you get, like the best reaction you can get is a really rowdy appreciation, like an appreciation. Yeah, yeah. Yeah? Honestly, that was, it was like you'd scored a 96-minute winner in the FA Cup final. It was primal, the noise that they made. It was a lot, like, it was almost like, what the fuck just happened? Yeah, I've never experienced anything like it.

37:55Romesh Ranganathan:But you must know, so many people have talked to you about this, but it felt like watching Magic, right? Because the truth of it is, and this is sort of patronising in a way, is that the expectation is you are going to have to dumb down what you're doing. As a viewer, you accept that that dance that Chris is doing is going to be a lot simpler because it has to be, by nature of his disability, right? That's just it. And then when you did what you did, I think that is what happened. I think that everybody just, it's like watching a magic trick. It's like you don't know, how the hell did they manage to do that?

38:34It feels impossible. So that first dance that we did, where I think we kind of set a step, we went like, this is what's possible. And everyone went bloody hell. And we went bloody hell because we got through it, yeah? And straight after that, I'm thinking, how the hell am I getting away with that again, right? But that second dance we did, we did a foxtrot, and it was like a beautiful foxtrot that she choreographed. And we had this moment at the end where she'd climb up onto the bench, and I'd hold her hand and walk her along the bench, and she'd climb up onto the arm of the bench, and she'd do a trust fall.

39:05She'd just fall like that, and I'd caught her. Yeah? And she's trusted that a blind man will catch her in the right moment on live TV. Do you know what I mean? like there's a and that so the magic is the trust I think because they're like it's not even just how do they you do it with trust that's how you do it yeah but it's not how do you do it you do it with trust it's how do you trust that much yeah how do you trust by week two and we just did we just had to she felt I caught her I pushed her back up onto the bench it took a lot of precision to make sure that I would always be in the right place because without feeling anything I just stepped straight up onto the arm of the bench and we both kind of then dropped down on a beat next to each other and people said it looked magical.

39:56But it was because of the amount of practice you have to do to do the little things. You know, anyone else would go, well, I just walk around to that point, whereas I can't see that point. So you have to practice the little things to get the angles right and everything, but you've got to trust each other. And, you know, part of what people might say was magical is the intention was always to make people forget that I was blind as much as possible always make them forget because if you can make people forget about the thing that they think defines you more than anything then you normalise it and so make people forget as much as possible and then you're winning aren't you not winning the competition you're winning in terms of your objectives.

40:43In terms of what you went into, the part of the reason that you went into do it, I mean,

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43:03Romesh Ranganathan:Speaking of which, Your autobiography, keep laughing. Yeah. Congratulations. Cheers, mate. Congratulations, not only on having a book, but it's thick. It's a big and an anime. It's like a proper adult wrote it. Why did you do that? Why did you make it so big? That's mad. It is. And to be honest, I could have stopped and just gone, oh, there'll be another one. Yeah. But I couldn't handle the bad reviews. Half of the people buying this, because they saw me on Strictly, If it only got up to the age of 30, I couldn't handle the reviews going, well, he didn't even talk about Strictly. So I had to get it up to Strictly.

43:41Right, right. So that's the reason it's so long. But also, I lost my sight over 25 years. Yeah. Right? So in order to talk about losing my sight, I kind of have to start at the beginning. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I thought, do you know what?

43:59People are interested now. Are people going to be interested in three years? Yes, they are, Chris. I don't know, mate. I don't know. I could be an obscure question in the pub quiz, you know? Yeah. Pointless answer. And so just get it all down. And then there you go. It's a big fat book and it looks like an adult wrote it.

44:14Romesh Ranganathan:I think it's great that you've done that because that's a proper taking you the whole way through it. And I think that it does the job of like, you know, if people who were into you before Strictly and love you as a stand-up, they get everything they want. so it's well done did you actually write it or did you every single word mate don't lie to me Chris I bought a beanbag Chris Chris don't lie to me did you I'm asking you and I believe whatever you said but I'm asking you now did you write this book every single word mate every single word just checking because I've not written any of mine no no I'm just fitting about I had a beanbag I wrote in the car on the way to tour shows I wrote in between tour shows if I had a matinee and stuff I wrote in the hotel it was consuming but yeah no it's do you know what though like writing that I went into that thinking the easy bit to write is going to be the comedy yeah going to be the being a comedian because it's what I do and it's what I love and I've got loads of opinions on it and I wrote it and turns out that writing about growing up and losing my side actually was a lot I felt it was a lot more original because it's something only I can write about and then you get to the stuff about being a comedian and you realise this is in every comedian's autobiography isn't it every comedian talks about doing the open mic circuit and then doing live at the Apollo and doing what I like to you and whatever so I realised when I was writing it that that's oh hang on this is the bit that I need to work harder to make it original and to give it from my perspective and not in a way that everybody else talks about it yeah because you're making the assumption that that's intrinsically interesting right because but if every comedian's writing about So then what you've got to start doing is start slagging people off.

45:59Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what I mean? And just sort of going, you know, when I first turned up to Mock the Week, Dara was a bit of a prick. You know, just stuff like that. It doesn't matter if it's true or not. You've just got to throw in a bit of spice. Do you know what I mean? Well, I mean, I did write in there. I talk about when I get to the point, because I write about, you know, doing the open mic circuit, getting off, doing the circuit. And you write about bad gigs because they're funny. Yeah? Bad gigs are funny. No one wants to hear about a good gig. No. Right? so you write about all the bad gigs and all the terrible gigs and the terrible experiences as a comedian because it's funny and it's endearing and then I got to the point where I did the first Would I Like To You and Have I Got News For You and I've literally written in the book it's tricky to write it from where you're on because failure and bad experiences are endearing I'm not going to lie it's gone really quite well from this point and I literally wrote in the book no one wants to read it and on my fifth appearance on would I like to hear I was very funny again

46:59Romesh Ranganathan:yeah the problem I had was that I wrote when I did mine I wrote so much about gigs going badly I think somebody said to me it's amazing that you're able to get anywhere as bad as you were when you first started because it's like you are just going to talk about and then this went shit and then somebody said I can't believe you're doing this or whatever because who wants to hear and dear reader I smashed it again you know like nobody wants that yeah yeah Even though it did happen a lot. Yeah, and I literally wrote in there that, like, obviously I have more good gigs than bad ones, otherwise I wouldn't be here writing this.

47:31But, like, it's hard to... People always ask, yeah, what's your worst gig? I did write about one in the book, which was... It wasn't... I decided to flag it as my worst gig because it was out of my control. And it takes all the blame away from me. I'll ask you in a minute what your weirdest bad gig is. Your weirdest gig that wasn't within your control, yeah? I was compared on once. by an escapologist. Right? Right. Have you ever been compared on by an escapologist?

47:57Romesh Ranganathan:I think four times. He was an RAF Christmas party, yeah? Yeah. He was comparing the gig, he told some jokes, he got one of them to chain him up, locked him in a box, and he couldn't get back out again. He got locked in a box with his microphone so we could hear him grunting and apologising, yeah? and I was stood at the side of the stage. Everybody in the room just got up and they just started having a party. They all mingled. Was he still in the box? Well, he was still in the box. Yeah. And he was in there for ages. Sorry about this, guys. It's a bit tighter than them. And he's... I'm stood at the side of the stage and the whole room gets up and they're all just mingling, doing their own thing.

48:39It took him ages. He finally got out of the box. First thing he did was he just put the microphone back in and introduced me. Did they react to him getting out of the box? No, no, no, no. Didn't react to me walking on stage? Didn't react to... So, yeah, that's what I flagged as my worst one because it was ridiculous.

49:01Romesh Ranganathan:I had a couple that spring to mind, but one of them was... I did one corporate gig where I was like a surprise act at the end of the thing. And so they got me... It was a hotel in Manchester, and they snuck me in, said, if you wait in the hotel room, we'll come and get you in a little bit and we'll take you down the staff lift or whatever and bring you out. And so I was like, okay. So then they came to get me, and they're walking me through the corridor, and she's briefing me about the gig, and she's like, do 20 minutes, and then there's going to be some awards and stuff. And I was like, okay, yeah, cool, cool, cool.

49:32Romesh Ranganathan:And then she goes to me, and we get into the lift, and as we're going down, she goes to me, can I just ask you something? I said, yeah. And she goes, do you even want to be here? And I said, sorry. And she goes, I'm telling you about the event. She goes, you don't seem excited. You don't seem pleased. You don't seem, like, happy. She goes, you just seem very sullen about it. I said, I'm really sorry, but this is what you've booked. I said, like, this is, I said, like, my energy, I said, I'm really sorry, like, my energy is just a bit like, you know. Yeah. I said, like, Joel Domit is the guy you want if you wanted somebody to be, like, buzzing in the lift.

50:06Yeah.

50:07Romesh Ranganathan:Anyway, we get down there and she goes, do you know it's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? And I go, what? She goes, it's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory themed event. And I got brought on stage by Willy Wonka and Six Oompa Loompas.

50:22Romesh Ranganathan:and then I said I think my opening line was am I the chocolate because

50:31Romesh Ranganathan:it felt so insane the theming of it man it was terrible anyway the gig went alright you know what I mean there should be there should be like do you know like you play FIFA or Championship Manager or whatever there should be like you know a Comedians one where like I mean if you were like in the Comedians FIFA or whatever You get your marks out of 100, don't you? You'd be like a 17 % on energy. You'd be a 12 % on joy. You'd be an 89 on sarcasm. You'd be able to look at what you want out of a player, wouldn't you? People often say to me, how do you do so much? They go, it helps if you operate at a really low hum the whole time.

51:13Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Right, we've got a game for you, Chris. Another one, mate. Yeah, this is called Misquoted.

51:25Romesh Ranganathan:It's misquoted. And how this works is I'm going to give you a series of quotes. Some of them you've said, some of them you haven't, all right? And I just want to know, well, you've just got to try and get it right, I guess. I've sort of phrased it wrong. Okay, here's your first one. Are you ready? Yeah. How good do you think you're going to be at this? God knows, mate. I mean, it's whether I've actually said the things you think I've said as well, isn't it? Yeah, that's another point. Yeah, go on. Okay. So I did an interview the other day for this book, and I think the woman who interviewed me must have ran me a book through ChatGPT and said, give me five things to ask about this book, yeah?

51:59So she goes to me, so talk to me about the final line of the book, and I know about the final line. There's nothing really big about the final line. I was like, what do you mean? What do you mean about the final line? And she goes, well, in the final line of the book, and it's easy to look at the final line of a book, isn't it? You just open the book to the end. It doesn't take effort. She's the final line of the book. You say, she goes, you say, I may have lost my sight, but I have not lost my vision. I said, I didn't say that.

52:31She went, what? I said, that's not in the book. I said, I've never said that. I said, to be honest, got a bit sick in my mouth when you said it.

52:41I may have lost my sight, but I have not lost my vision. Do you know,

52:44Romesh Ranganathan:that sounds like the end of a really shit Edinburgh show. yeah, But anyway, something like I'd say. Are you crossing off the first quote of your book? Yeah, yeah, sorry. Here's the first one. I think the best way to represent a disability is to make people forget about it whenever possible. Yeah, I mean, I just said that literally five minutes ago, mate. I know, I know. I don't know if you could hear the disappointment as I said it. Just like, this is so obvious. It's the next quote. Hey, Romesh, it's nice to be here.

53:16Romesh Ranganathan:that was from the guardian in 2023 yeah the next one is um i really like mince pies no just the next one is i probably own more guitars than i know chords and even more sex toys okay that's hard it's half right the sex toys bit is completely right no i i i mean i love guitars but i can literally play like five chords but yeah i've got a few rhythm. I've got five guitars, I think. But how well can you play? You know, I can play the chords and I can... I've never really developed. I can play like half or six songs, but I like just kind of... I find it quite relaxing, just dangle one around your neck and just have a little strum.

54:03Pretend you're a rock star. I think most comedians are wannabe rock stars without enough swagger and talent, mate, aren't they?

54:09Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I totally agree. How many rock stars close their eyes in the bedroom and pretend they're on stage telling jokes? I know. Just to get an immediate response night after night and then going back to that same venue to see a music act and they get a response from the audience that you can only dream of. Anyway, I imagine that's how it feels. OK, here's your next one. I got in a lot of trouble one week because backstage I told Craig Revell Horwood to eat a bag of dicks. I mean, that's not true in an actual... I mean, I thought that a lot. But yeah, that's not true, mate. How panto is what he does?

54:45So, like, really, you know, I mean, he's a character, isn't he? And he's there to kind of poke you with a stick. And I learned that as I was going along, and I kind of started giving him back a bit more as we went on. But, like, nothing that me and him did was ever prepared, talked about at no point. People might think, oh, did he say he'll say that? And then nothing. You don't really see each other, you know. I probably saw him three or four times during the whole series, outside of that environment, just kind of in a corridor or something. So it's completely off the... And the beautiful thing is it's on live TV, so it's never subject to an edit, and whatever you say goes out.

55:26And it's lovely being able to walk that line, but also I know what producers are probably comfortable with for that time of the day, But I also know what is allowed. Do you know what I mean? You can step over the line in a way that they mightn't be happy with if they had a heads up, but I know it's possible. So sometimes, like, you always do briefings on them strictly, and they'll go, like, so what stories have you got, yeah? And sometimes I'd have a story that I knew would be funny, but I knew they wouldn't allow. So I'd give them a false feed in line. So, like, one of them, with all the news stories about people kicking people in training, yeah?

56:04in one of the training sessions Diane kicked me so hard in the head and I knew there's no way they would want that story on the telly so I said when we were training this week it was really funny because we were doing this move and we kept on ending up in a heap on the floor it was really funny ask me about that and so Claudia thought that's what the answer was going to be and so Claudia said oh when you're training you're trying that move things didn't go to plan did they I said no I said Diane kicked me so hard in the head

56:30I said and if she thought that there was any chance I had more sight than I was letting on. I said, I didn't even flinch. I stood there and I took it. And Claudia was in bits because it was out of the blue. And it was funny and it was a bit, you know, it brings a bit. But you know that they, so all of that is.

56:46Romesh Ranganathan:And they loved, I guess they loved it because it went over well. They didn't give you a bollocking or anything. No, no, no, absolutely. And just like we did, you know, we did a thing where we did Wayne's World. And I said to Di, Di didn't know Wayne's World. I made her watch it and then showed her like, we're not worthy I said when we've done the dance we'll go over to the judges and we'll drop to our knees and we'll do we're not yeah and she was like you're sure I said yeah I'll be daft it'll be silly but don't do it in the rehearsal because if we do it in the rehearsal the producers will say don't do that because not enough people will know what it is do you know what I mean so let's just save it for the live show so we did it in the live show the cameras weren't ready Tess didn't have a clue what was going on Tess shit herself and Tess was like what's going on but Anton found it hilarious so I had a like they because the other thing is like I thought you navigated the thing of being funny and being okay for the show because that's quite a difficult thing to do because you sort of think about what you do on stage and stuff like that it's not really strictly friendly and then you're going and trying to be funny on there it's a tricky one right well do you know what though it's not that hard I mean because you've just got one rule and that is don't be offensive and don't swear and don't be offensive.

58:02And it's an easy line to walk. But you can bring a bit of anarchy and chaos into that, that the production team might be happy with in advance, but then kind of go, oh, yeah, that was funny. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's an easy line. The hardest line to walk, I think, is being funny on the last leg because it's at 10 o 'clock at night. Yeah. It's on live TV. You've got to be adult funny. You've got to be contentious funny. Yeah. And you've got to not end your own career.

58:26Romesh Ranganathan:Yes. That's a tricky line to walk, isn't it? Yeah. To be kind of 10 o 'clock, 10pm funny on live TV and also not say things that are just too far. That's a trickier line to walk than just being funny on Strictly or this morning or something. Yeah, especially with Josh. Okay, here's your next one. If you Google my name, one of the suggested options has always been Chris McCausland, Me Too. Anyone who doesn't know CBeebies must look at it and go, oh my God, what's the dirty bastard done? Yeah, yeah. So I talk about this in my tour show at the minute, but honestly, like, the kids' show I did 19 years ago was called Me Too, which is the most, like, I mean, it's aged badly, that, isn't it?

59:10But it does come up as a suggestion when you type my name in. Yeah. About, you know, and no one's, hardly anyone's heard of that show. So it's like that, you know.

59:19Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, here's your next one. I once walked into The Undertaker's believing it to be the barbers next door. Mate, these are all true. you just there's no yeah the undertaker asked if you could help me and asked him if you had many waiting at the moment I genuinely did so I was the barbers was next door to the undertakers this was when I was kind of on the dregs of eyesight and I was trying to pretend I could see more than I could and hiding it trying to pretend that I hide it I was kind of it was a bit of denial and shame and all that kind of stuff and it was really sunny and the sun was in my eyes and I just kind of went to where I thought the door was for the undertakers and went in and it was quiet in there because it was an undertaker's.

1:00:04Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, makes sense. But barbers can be quiet when people are waiting. Yeah. And the guy goes, yeah, he does. He goes, can I help you? And I said, have you got many waiting at the moment? And he went, huh?

1:00:20They probably could give you a haircut, couldn't they? But that's the, I mean, the irony is, mate, when I realised where I was I wanted to die of embarrassment which would have meant he would have been qualified to give me a haircut

1:00:29Romesh Ranganathan:what's your next plans going forward like now you've become you know basically a national treasure essentially finished the tour got the book out you know it'd be nice to you know we're trying to work on getting like a you know a game show or something off the ground I think that'd be nice because like you know it's about I think about kind of doing things that haven't been done before and like nobody blinds hosted like last last summer i hosted a chat show for itv yeah and like i think that was a first and you know we did it completely without auto cue and and without any you know visual prompts or anything like that and and so to find ways of doing these things that are invisible to the people at home you know um where it they're like you know where the the mechanism for making it work for me is is we find a new way and it's hidden i think that's good and so if i can if we can get this if we can get a game show off the ground and um and have me hosting that and you know dealing with members of the public and things like that in a way that is just as normal as it is for anybody else hosting it even though there's we have to find completely different mechanisms and ways of making it work um i think that'll be good do you have that is that does that exist yeah we got i mean we we've been working on the thing i've been working on the thing with um with richard bacon and stuff like that so we're kind of working on something at the minute trying to get it off the ground and but you know we'll see what happens but um i think that'd be that'd be good you know you know if i can take a little bit of tv away from you romish i think it's um i think it's just it's just annoying your diversity trumps mine you know it's slightly irritating actually nobody's gonna go like if i did strychnine nobody's going to go I never thought an Asian man could do that that's amazing I thought you'd have to simplify the dance being brown yeah but anyway you should do it though mate no I can't it'd be too I'm too shit I'm too shit I'll tell you what though it is I love the curse though it is it is consuming yeah it is exhausting consuming intrusive and and you have to kind of clear your diary.

1:02:49Romesh Ranganathan:Well, look, Chris, you've been an amazing guest. Thank you so much for coming on. What we'd love, really love, is like a little tidbit that you've never said anywhere else so that we can go viral. Have you got anything for us? I don't know. You're not really blind. Would be amazing. I mean, I am blind. Good to get it confirmed, though, isn't it? Have you ever been asked that directly? Are you really blind? So even when I was playing the clubs before I'd done any telly, I remember doing the Glee Club in Cardiff and somebody sat at 20 minutes and I barely mentioned it on stage. I mentioned it at the beginning, did a lot of stand-up and then somebody at the end goes, oh, are you really blind?

1:03:32Is it just a character actor? I suppose one secret is the secret to success as a blind guy on Strictly is to have an identical twin who can see perfectly.

1:03:48Romesh Ranganathan:Chris McCawson, everybody. If you've enjoyed this episode of the Ramesh Ranganathan show, make sure you follow wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, all the big ones, and you can enjoy more great content like this. And in fact, I'll go further to say, even if you didn't enjoy this episode, just follow anyway for shits and giggles. And on the Thursday episode, we're going to be taking questions from viewers and listeners. Oh. So that's exciting, isn't it? It's interesting. Yeah. And if you've got an interesting story or a question for my mum and I, or even like a family dilemma you'd like us to help you with, please do get in touch via our email address podcast at rangaby.com.

1:04:26Romesh Ranganathan:Or you can voice note or text on this number 07731 623355. I'm Ramesh Ranganathan and this has been the Ramesh Ranganathan Show. What a narcissist. See you next time. Oh, shut up, Ramesh. there's a new way to sweet green meat wraps handheld hearty and made for life on the moon with bold chef crafted flavors fresh ingredients and over 40 grams of protein they're built to satisfy without slowing you down try wraps today in the app or at order.sweetgreen.com available at all participating locations

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