James Acaster: Hecklers, Mental Health & Stealing Romesh's Family

6:59Romesh Ranganathan:It's Mary Had a Little Lamb. Oh, great. Will you take those, do you think?

7:02James Acaster:No. Why would I want those?

7:10Romesh Ranganathan:I think that's fair I do think that's fair it's like the whole idea that you just take shit because it's free do you know what I mean I think it's yeah

7:17James Acaster:but also it's not like people say it's the thought that counts and I would say there was no thought whatsoever put into that and the game

7:27Romesh Ranganathan:anyway the game was a shit show James thank you so much for coming on to the show it's a delight to have you on man how's life treating you generally alright man yeah pretty good yeah Yeah, can't complain. You know, just hanging out. Do you have, I mean, look, if we were to summarise you. Okay. This is embarrassing. You might find it embarrassing, but you're one of the best to ever do stand-up. You know, like the shows you put together are incredible. In a way that I think that, you know, when you start doing stand-up, a lot of the time you watch stand-up and you think this is really good, but I can see how it's done.

8:02Romesh Ranganathan:But I think what you're, do you know what I mean? Whereas I think when I came to watch your West End run of the lasagna tour and I watched it and I couldn't figure out how your brain had created that. It was like amazing. And that's something that people say about a lot of your shows, if not all of them. Do you have like creatively, do you still have ambitions with regards to stand up? Because after that tour, you said you weren't going to do it ever again. And then you did the Heckler show. what made you come back and do you have things that you haven't done with stand-up that you want

8:37James Acaster:to do yeah if you uh you realize thank you by the way that's very very nice um i i think yeah i kind of realized that um i missed it a bit i did want to do it and the main reason i didn't want to do it was because of all the things i found stressful um and to just go back and try and address those things and like get better at those that's the whole heckler's welcome tour was i mean i probably shouldn't have charged people for was essentially an exercise for myself but like i was like i'm gonna try and get better at like um doing stand-up and not telling the audience how much i'm hating them specifically and their reactions to my stand-up so like uh that was the ambition there was like let's take that thing that you're rubbish at like that's your most like i think with every show you kind of go okay i want to get better at especially in the early days you're like i want to get better at writing then it's what i want to get better at my to live my delivery my performance yeah maybe my improv or whatever and then it just got to be this point where it's like you still haven't sorted out getting better at this like this this kind of like uh and not being able to

9:51Romesh Ranganathan:just get your head down and do the show no matter what you're you are delivering a show though right

9:57James Acaster:Yeah, that's still a show that I had. And that was part, because otherwise I wouldn't have cared. It had to be that I'd written a show, I'd worked really hard on it, and they were allowed to do whatever they wanted.

10:06Romesh Ranganathan:So, because if you'd have just gone out, because I think when I initially saw it, like the announcement or the blurb for it, I assumed it was going to be, you're just going to go out and go, come at me. Yeah. In which case you want them to get, that's a different thing because you want them to get involved. Whereas this is, I do have a thing that I want to deliver, but you're allowed to. And is it they can interrupt whenever the hell they want?

10:27James Acaster:They can do whatever they want, yeah. And it's like we had – I had to say no violence and no hate speech. And what a shame you have to clarify that. But if you don't say that, they go, it's The Purge. This is great. So I had to say that. It's not Purge rules, guys. But, yeah, otherwise it was like you can do what you want. Some nights I'd do the whole show and they wouldn't heckle. They'd just watch it.

10:48Romesh Ranganathan:And then were you disappointed when that happened?

10:50James Acaster:No, no, because, like, actually, the thing that I think I really struggled the most with before I did that show was when they would just quite quietly watch it. I didn't like hecklers. I didn't like them being on their phones or talking amongst themselves, but I really hated it when I would do this show I've worked really hard on and they would watch it like it was a play quite quietly. And I'd be like, where's the laughs that were here the other week? And that's when I would really act up. And it's more embarrassing because they've done nothing wrong. No. They've not misbehaved.

11:19Romesh Ranganathan:And they don't know that you've performed this somewhere else and the audience have been different. They're just in there for that night, right?

11:26James Acaster:Yeah, and I'm telling them off, you know, and they've paid to see it. So those were actually the most useful ones where I'd come off and go, well, I don't think that went well. But at no point did I let them know that. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, there are comics who from day one have been able to do that. I've never seen you tell an audience that they're rubbish. From day one, you know, I've seen you just be able to do a gig and then I don't know how you feel about it until you come off. But I've just not been able to do that from day one. And I think assumed that it was just something that I would grow out of or it was something that I was, I'm doing the open mic circuit or I'm doing like, you know, the club circuit and the gigs either aren't good or the audience aren't there to see me.

12:08James Acaster:But once I've got my own audience in a theatre, it's going to be brilliant. And then you get that and go, oh no, actually it's me.

12:13Romesh Ranganathan:When you sort of got annoyed by touring, I did sort of recognise because I think we had a couple of text conversations about the experience of touring and stuff and we were chatting about it and I remember John Richardson came to watch me in Blackburn I think it was and he said to me he felt there were some people in the audience that had seen me do like I don't know Ranganation or a travel show or something and then they've just gone it's an evening with Ramosh Ranganathan let's just go watch and he said like I don't think they knew what the hell this was going to be you know, what their expectations are.

12:47Romesh Ranganathan:They don't even know what they're going to get. You know, they don't know it's going to be me talking about whatever I end up talking about. And so then, like, there's a, I think part of the problem is the disconnect between what you're doing and what, you're trying to get audience by doing, you know, that's not the only reason you do TV, but we're trying to build our profiles up. And you do that by doing all of the different things because you can't just do it by doing stand-up on TV. So you do panel shows and all that shit. And then these people come and watch you and they don't know this is what they're going to get.

13:17Romesh Ranganathan:And so that's where the friction occurs, right?

13:19James Acaster:Yeah. And I wish it was like that feeling when a friend comes along, especially in a comic who sits in the audience and they can tell you. And when you are that friend as well, like as a stand-up, it is quite a – I always feel it like when I'm sitting in an audience about to watch a mate do stand-up. I really want to be able to transfer this feeling to them on stage so they know what it feels like in the audience so that they're not taking any of this personally. And they know it's actually like, if you could just sit in here for a second, you would see that this is going really well or that, you know, Daji, you don't need to worry about this one because they literally have never seen anything, any stand-up before.

13:58James Acaster:They kind of come for the wrong reasons and just have a nice time and go home and it's okay. It's not that big of a deal. And like, yeah, I mean, because working it out on stage, having those thoughts on stage or afterwards, It's the thing that does my head in. Like, on stage going like, have they just come because they saw me on? It's like, where are you even getting that from? Yeah, yeah. But like, and then afterwards being like, oh, I think they just saw that Bake Off thing and they came as a Bake Off and then it came as my stand-up. And like, and you know, you're saying that to your tour manager or whoever and they're being very nice about it, but they might be like on the phone to their partner when they're back in the hotel going, he thought they were all Bake Off fans.

14:38James Acaster:He's like, he's gone nuts. like he doesn't even seem to understand uh what you know what was going on they were liking it in the room he was complaining afterwards so like yeah i always i remember uh you know um going to you do a work in progress yeah and uh one of the things i really wanted to tell you off because you were talking about um your relationship and you were saying to me beforehand uh you know i i wanted like start speaking about just how much i love my wife and love being in this relationship but i'm worried that you know all i've done before is like slag her off and uh that maybe they'll want more of that and yeah and it will be a weird shift and when you did it that night and shifted into i you know as one of the things i wanted to tell you was like you can feel it in the audience that they actually go oh cool yeah as soon as you started talking about uh at least in a positive way and you weren't absolutely tearing it to shreds like you normally do um everyone was like oh this is cool we haven't heard like stories like this before and there's a different angle on this one but there's no way for you to know that on stage because they're they're just feeling it and you feel it in the audience and you feel that everyone around you like even though they're not talking there's that feeling of oh we really want to hear about this and leaning into it but as a comic because you haven't got to the punchlines yet or the laugh points you're just standing there going oh no this is what i thought would happen they're going away from me because i'm being nice about it i hate how are my kids but like but it was like when you're

16:10Romesh Ranganathan:trying out stuff the key is to disconnect yourself from how it's going right like as much as you possibly can yeah right it's to go even if i like you have to let go of your ego really because like the more in the more you piss around and like play with it in this stage when it doesn't matter the better the thing's going to be at the end of it yeah but as it goes further along the fear factor the pressure's up you got you're doing a bigger room you're doing a work in progress in a bigger

16:37James Acaster:room it becomes harder and harder right yeah i and that's why like i'd act out the most when i was on tour and they're paying the most amount of money yeah because like now i'm really worried that they're not really liking it and um and i'm getting annoyed because like it went well before in the work in progress is and now i'm doing the proper show and then they don't like it and then you get all those uh start to analyze the room wrong oh yeah of course all the comedy nerds who really love comedy they come to all the work in progress because they want to see the process and then all the people who's watching on tv and don't even know what stand-up is they come on these ones and then the show's as good as it'll ever be but for the worst audience what's the point of this

17:11Romesh Ranganathan:and then like i like getting annoyed about that yeah and uh and then yeah really not being able

17:17James Acaster:to park my ego or like um disconnect myself from how it's going it's all about like well this was meant to be this huge moment that was going to be brilliant and it's not and like that's yeah so much of that is wrong and upside down and it should be like well you know for starters tonight it's not about you having a good evening james it is it's very basic fundamentals of stand-up it is about them having a nice night so how about you focus on that and just mess around and enjoy the show and uh just remember they haven't seen it every single work in progress you've done and and also like i've been in audiences i i saw like um uh i don't think you'll mind me saying this but i saw joseph long before i became a comic do a gig a tour show maybe to about 20 people in northampton which is pretty good numbers for northampton to be honest yeah but like it's the best audience size in northampton yeah and uh it changed my life it made me want to be a stand-up comedian and um then when i met her when i'd become a stand-up and and it just become my job i told her that and she and um she went i remember that gig it was the worst of the tour and you're like oh yeah and then when i thought back to it i was like oh yeah we were just sitting there and i probably wasn't like really going for it laughing like i was reacting probably like i had to do those bells yeah i was sitting there like just like looking at going oh i'm not i wasn't expecting this this is different yeah in my head going i can do all this with stand-up that's amazing but she probably looked at me and went why is this miserable prick showing up just staring at me like this like he's figuring me out whereas actually i'm thinking this is a whole new art form i didn't know existed and actually i'd like to do this and i think i think this is like what i'd like to do next because i actually don't know what i'm going to do and this is amazing in my head i'm getting so excited but my body's just like that um and like yeah and you try and remind yourself all the time maybe that person is it but then you don't believe it about yourself no you don't think there might be someone in the audience tonight and this changes their life you don't know that i i will be lucky if they don't complain about how bad this is i know i know i know i

19:25Romesh Ranganathan:remember like um actually even like when ben and i first met he came to some this gig and it was like when we first got to know each other that it's that weird corporate gig thing and i was just about to go to edinburgh yeah and ben messaged me after going that was such a great gig like a few days later or something what he didn't know was that in my mind it had gone so badly that i left the venue immediately and walked along oxford street spiraling about how i couldn't do edinburgh and i was like i was gonna phone like you know i was just like this is fucking horrible and you do get so caught up at like i've had like uh moments where i think you're at your most vulnerable when you're for me i've been at my most vulnerable when the tour's just started and so you feel like you're not doing it to these people that you're not behind a closed door going have a look at this thing i'm working on then you're going this is it you know you're actually serving it at the dinner party or whatever yeah and that's when you're most vulnerable and i remember like once i just started a tour and somebody said it's such an innocuous message right it's such a simple like thing going hi rom um and i don't even know why i was reading it's like a dm like a you know on it was like hi rom came to your show last night really liked it i mean my wife didn't like it as much but i really that i fucking nearly had a breakdown and and then i have to like then i phone flow like my age like who you know and like phone her up and going i don't know about this tour And she's having to entertain this fucking thunder narcissist on the other end going, oh, yeah, it did.

21:01Romesh Ranganathan:Yes, they all did laugh and stuff. And it's going really well. One person sent me a message saying his wife didn't like it. And then it's just like what she should be saying is, are you fucking serious? Are you serious? Like you're doing the thing that you've wanted to do for years and it's not worked out. And like somebody sent you a message saying they're – not even they didn't like it. I liked it my wife didn't and then it's like having a part like you know somebody that you really love in your life you sort of say at least it's very like matter of fact about it she's just like Ron think about what you're saying yeah do you know what I mean it's sort of like she's been supportive but at the same time this is like look at the rationally look at what has sent you on this spiral man it's like it's not okay you do need that

21:46James Acaster:you need people who will say that and will go like okay listen like you know I care about you I'm really sorry that you're feeling like this it is bad but we need to like be realistic as well i just look here because sometimes people will say stuff and i've grown now to like appreciate that they're saying it's make you feel better but actually if you stop and step back it's not so like a classic one is people go yeah i mean at the end of the day it's it actually is on the audience because what are they doing like paying to see something showing up to something and then they don't even know what it is or what are they doing showing up to see you and like apparently they're fans of yours and then they're not getting into it yeah and then you go yeah yeah they're right and then and then you go hold on i pay to see things that i'm a fan of and who i love like musicians i love and i go well that was shit i love every album they've ever done yeah uh the venue's rubbish or i didn't like the way they performed that i didn't seem like they wanted to be here or like i just did it to a backing track or whatever the thing is and i come on way whinging and absolutely i shouldn't just be like, well, I'm a fan of them and I've come, I'm the one who's travelled and paid to see it, so I should like it.

22:54James Acaster:If I don't, I'm a knobhead. I'm a, what is my problem? Yeah. You know, when they've not really put on a very good show or it's not, or it's just not my taste. Yeah. You know, you go and see films all the time at the cinema. Yeah. And directors you love, actors you love, whatever. And you might go, okay, that one's not for me. But someone would go up to me and go, I thought you said you were a Paul Thomas Anderson fan. You should like every single one of his films.

23:17Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:17James Acaster:Well, no, I can take some and leave some. Well, that's not an option.

23:21Romesh Ranganathan:You ever like all of them or you like none of them? What? And the other thing is, when you go and see bands and they're touring an album you don't like as much, you go and watch it and you go, this isn't my favourite song. But you don't leave going on, well, I hate them now. No. You just go, that wasn't... You don't love them any less. You don't think any differently about them. You just go, that bit was where they went in a direction that I wasn't as into. Yeah, that's all it is. There's no dislike. There's no you have to like it. I know, it's mad. But then I think that's, then you think that you want everyone to like everything you do.

23:52Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. It's insane. It leads to you phoning your agent in the middle of the street saying, this DM really sent me into a spiral. Could you please entertain it? And sadly, for her 20 % flow did. Horrible.

24:06James Acaster:I love the thought of the guy being like, I messaged him telling him it was good. Don't worry, your views were represented. I told him you did not enjoy it. So he's not under the impression he had 100 % of the audience. She doesn't think that everyone was loving it because you didn't like it.

24:18Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. We've got a question from my mum for you, James. Yes, please. Now, I've heard this question. Normally, I don't hear them, but I've heard this one. It does sound quite stilted is my warning for you.

24:31James Acaster:I still think about the last time.

24:33Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, my God. On the Ranganation.

24:36James Acaster:Went on Ranganation and it was so funny.

24:39Romesh Ranganathan:I can't remember the exact wording of it.

24:42James Acaster:well someone had said someone had said that they were they had started doing started exercising and their boobs got bigger I think your mum had said that

24:53Romesh Ranganathan:yes her boobs had got bigger as a result of exercising

24:56James Acaster:it's all lockdown stuff and so I said

24:59Romesh Ranganathan:boobs and working out that was all lockdown

25:01James Acaster:yeah yeah so I said I've been doing yoga and now my dick's massive and your mum really laughed and you went you loved that didn't you mum and she thought you'd said you love that like because then she went i do i do love that yeah as in i love big dick and i cannot lie and i was laughing so you were laughing and going that's not what i asked you and tried to say it but she was like she went romish romish and then you thought oh she's gonna clear it up now she went who wouldn't like a big dick which is such a funny thing to clear just to clear it up and then she started talking about your deceased father's penis?

25:41James Acaster:Yeah, I forgot about that. It wasn't very big.

25:43Romesh Ranganathan:I must have trauma blanked it.

25:46James Acaster:I was in stitches, man. Yeah. I couldn't stop that. I was on the floor.

25:51Romesh Ranganathan:It was so funny. Well, let's hear it. It's actually a dick-related question. I kid. Let's hear what it is.

25:59James Acaster:Hi, James.

26:00Romesh Ranganathan:I heard you want to go to Sri Lanka. Is that true? Rame still don't know nothing about Sri Lanka

26:08James Acaster:and can't speak Tamil, even though we went on a travel show. Who would you go with and why?

26:24Romesh Ranganathan:What I would say about that question is none of the information going into it is required for the final question. No, who would you like to travel with? why do we need to know that despite doing a travel show I don't know how to speak the language we don't need to know any of that

26:39James Acaster:but you know, I'll tell you what not many people's parents not many comedians' parents would understand what is required of them in terms of being entertaining and just deliver it every time and she knows if I just say I heard you want to go to Sri Lanka who do you want to go with and why she's like that's not why people

26:59Romesh Ranganathan:you make a good point

27:01James Acaster:I've got to destroy my son yeah that's very impressive yeah she did it really well once again

27:08Romesh Ranganathan:but she's somebody that I would love to experiment with like seeing if the comedy could come from other areas yeah you know yeah like maybe she's frightened of just sort of saying she loves me

27:18James Acaster:yeah exactly maybe she'd just go she could do that but I think for you guys that would be the final thing you did like that would be a lovely like closing way to close out your career together yeah and the audience would love that but I don't think they could then continue to watch you guys. So that would be the retirement. Once you said that she loves you and she's proud of you and done all that, they would have to be like, okay, that's it. Well, somebody said that you don't want to hear any more from them. We can't go back to like slagging you off. Oh yeah, she can't. And we can't carry on with just like, is mum's proud of him?

27:47James Acaster:No. Because that's not.

27:48Romesh Ranganathan:That goes no further.

27:49James Acaster:It's got to be.

27:50Romesh Ranganathan:And then she can't just come back and go, you're such a disappointment. Yeah. You've got an arse that's flat like your party or whatever. You can't go back to those areas again. No, you can't go back to that. But it would be good if one day. One day. So, okay, why do you want to go to Sri Lanka? I don't mean that like I... I've never been.

28:08James Acaster:Right. So, like, I love the food. So I'd like to go there and have the authentic, proper food. It looks like a beautiful country. And, yeah, I just want to go and travel to places that are completely unlike anywhere I've been before. So, yeah, that's the main reason. and I think it's got good like nature and stuff hasn't it I like getting in amongst that um yeah but in terms of who I go with I do sometimes get like people want to do travel shows and whatever and uh I don't know if I would have you must have been offered or asked to do a travel show yes but I don't know if I'd ever have the patience for it right you know you got to do the stick like standing around and you know like okay we're gonna film you walking up this hill but if you just like wait there for a day and then we're gonna do it and then you do this again and you're gonna eat that but hold off on eating that yeah and then you eat it's cold and so i i don't really want to that's not how i want to see the world no i don't think i would be a fun travel companion for people but if i was to do it i would want to do it with another comedian's parent and make that comedian's parent my like travel buddy and that's what that's who i do the shows with so like maybe your mum i think it'd be funny to do it with your i've pitched for a few projects now i've pitched that your mum is on it and you're not and the things that never got off the ground but like but it was like oh it would be funny if rom's mum did that and like we just got her on the show there was something i was doing where we had to have someone in the audience who was asking the audience questions while i'm doing a quiz with people here i was like let's get rob's mum because that'll be funny that like i've got this like dynamic with her and we never have rom on and it's just funny that like that is funny yeah i thought it'd be really good yeah but what happened never got anywhere well the pilot did i spoke about the pilot on a different podcast and got in trouble for it so we got all the actually i didn't get in trouble for that bit i told you two pilots on that podcast and got in trouble for the other one but um yeah it was a it was a pilot of Channel 4 that I thought was absolutely brilliant.

30:17James Acaster:It didn't get picked up, sadly. But I thought part of why it was brilliant was because everything went wrong. Right. But in a really entertaining way, I thought it would have been great. And I think that would be an even better ingredient to add to the chaos would be your mum.

30:29Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, so she didn't – I'm not just finding out that my mum was involved in the pilot for the first time. Sadly. So you want to go to Sri Lanka with my mum?

30:35James Acaster:Yeah.

30:36Romesh Ranganathan:Okay.

30:36James Acaster:I think that would be brilliant.

30:37Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah.

30:38James Acaster:Or maybe your whole family. That would be great for your mum and your wife and your kids. Oh. Like all the people that you've had on camera with you. So nobody's not been on camera before. Right. But who was it? Did you get your uncle on one of them? Yeah. Yeah. He's a character.

30:57Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah.

30:57James Acaster:From what I remember. So I get all of them along. Yeah. And maybe I would pretend that they were my family, actually. Right. I would just say that it's my wife and kids and this is my mum. Yeah. And what's your uncle called? My uncle, Rags. I've heard Rags is coming. I remember that was your vibe was like uh oh Rags is here because it was like he was like a character and I'd have all those kind of the exact same relationship with all of them that you have and I would never reference that like you it would be like an alternative universe or a universe where I'm I'm just in that position I'm still called James Acaster and none of them have got my name they're all called Ranganathan still but like it's like they're my family and that would be the travel show.

31:43James Acaster:I'd just be doing it as a legitimate travel show with those semi-scripted, semi-improvised asides with the family and at no point make you the joke or anything. It's just that. And I'm me. I'm not acting like you. I'm acting like me.

32:03Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, it feels like you've watched those shows and thought these are good apart from one thing. No.

32:12James Acaster:Because you have to watch those shows to understand my show. Oh, I see. So this is like the inevitable sequel. Just to be clear, actually. Yeah, go on. Because I know I'm saying I've turned down travel shows in the past, and it's no disrespect to the people who pitched to me. It's just because I'm too lazy to do them. I would do this one. Right. If someone wanted to pitch to me a travel show, and I know you've got a production company, that it is me and your entire family, and the thing is that I'm just doing the travel shows that you've done, but it's me instead of you. Yeah. I would love it I would think it would be so much fun to do that and then once people have seen yours someone would tell them they've made another version of this but it's James Acaster's mum and they're like oh what was James Acaster's mum and no no it's still Ramesh's mum but she's saying that James is her son and she's disappointed in him and like Ramesh's wife and kids and everyone and he has the same he's telling them what to do and they're not respecting him but like it's just there's never a reference that oh Ramesh wouldn't do this It's why you talk to him.

33:11James Acaster:It's like James is just rummish. Yeah. And they've remade him. He goes to the same places.

33:16Romesh Ranganathan:Exactly the same places.

33:17James Acaster:All the same places every episode. Rats turns up. Yeah.

33:21Romesh Ranganathan:I think that would be great. I do think it'd be great. I mean, I'm at the stage now where I'm trying to be, I'm winding down and trying to be at home more. It feels like a real weird situation for me to finally make that decision. And then Lisa and the kids go, we're off to do some travel shows with James.

33:40James Acaster:yeah but you look forward to seeing that though watching the footage oh yeah i'd love yeah i'd

33:44Romesh Ranganathan:love to keep in touch with them via the show they've made with you yeah yeah but you'd never

33:50James Acaster:be so when they facetime you or whatever that's not in there no the contact no i'm not in the show at all no i agree with that you don't exist in this universe yeah yeah or you do but like you're i guess you got my life but my life never features in your travel logs so you would still probably be out there somewhere. Yeah. Living a life.

34:09Romesh Ranganathan:But never referred to.

34:10James Acaster:Never referred to. And I'm really excited about this now. Yeah. I think it would be genuinely good. What do you think?

34:16Romesh Ranganathan:I actually genuinely think it could be quite good. Yeah. Would you go to the same places or new places? Same places. So you go back to Sri Lanka and do the tour of Sri Lanka?

34:24James Acaster:All the same places, doing the same activities, all of that. So we don't have to do any research. It's all set up in a way.

34:29Romesh Ranganathan:It's all set up. It's a dumbing indictment of how far you think Sri Lanka's moved on in the last, what, decade since we did that show.

34:34James Acaster:And his kids are grown up, I guess.

34:36Romesh Ranganathan:They didn't come out on that one, though. No, they came to America.

34:39James Acaster:Yeah. I do the US one. I think I'd start with the US one. Yeah, okay. Because that's got all of them in it. Yeah. Great. So I'd start with the US one, get rags involved, and your mum, and your family, and your kids and stuff, and go to all the same places, do the same things, build up to doing the gig like you did.

35:00Romesh Ranganathan:So it's Just Another Immigrant, that one, where he sells out.

35:03James Acaster:They call it Just Another Immigrant. you'd call it that yeah that makes sense probably get a different crowd

35:08Romesh Ranganathan:you could go just another immigrant open brackets but the good kind close brackets

35:13James Acaster:well maybe I'll you know I'll workshop that with my family when I'm out there

35:18Romesh Ranganathan:and see what they want to call it I think it's a great idea I like it I think it would be fun I think it's difficult to get away if you're doing exactly the same show but I think if a broadcaster you don't think so I think that's the selling point and then if you but we genuinely put the tickets on sale you might sell it out.

35:35James Acaster:I would, because now I'm not in the same place Romesh was. Romesh would sell it out now. So it's like, what's the venue? It was the, what was it? How big is it?

35:46Romesh Ranganathan:5 ,000. Yeah, that's not that.

35:50James Acaster:So that's funnier.

35:51Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Is it?

35:53James Acaster:It's funnier that the whole thing is like, I booked this venue, and then it just sells out really early on in the series, and I've got nothing to worry about.

36:02Romesh Ranganathan:but that feels like you've taken out the whole engine of the it's a really maverick yeah but

36:06James Acaster:it's a funny series that i'm just going along and i keep forgetting i've even got the gig of the diary because it's not a big deal yeah i don't know initially i was cynical but now i'm really

36:17Romesh Ranganathan:i think it could be a good thing um should we find lisa now and ask her uh should we ben what do you Should we make it happen?

36:27James Acaster:That's great. Okay. I think it would be great.

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37:51Romesh Ranganathan:Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. James, we've got a game for you. It's called Misquoted. Love it. It's time for Misquoted.

38:10Romesh Ranganathan:It's Misquoted. In this game, we give you some quotes and some of them you've said, some of them you haven't. Great. Okay. Okay. And then you've just got a guess. Yeah. Here's the first one. I'm not an alpha male, So I think that even if people are a fan of me, that doesn't mean that they necessarily respect me. That's, I said that, yeah. Yeah. Big issue 2025.

38:32James Acaster:Yeah. They use that as the pull quote. I wasn't, because someone texted me about it. They said, can't stop laughing at this, because it was just the pull quote, I'm not an alpha male on my face. It's like, that's the problem with that sort of stuff, is that you look like you have elected for that to be the, I want you to tell everyone, by the way, that I'm not an alpha male. That's very important. I know. as if I've not said it as a statement of like, well, we already know this. Yeah. You know, so they take it out of context and go, James Acaster was declaring he's not an alpha male. It's like you with the...

39:05Romesh Ranganathan:The play. I mean, so they said to me, they go to me, oh, in order to announce this play, do you want to do just a quick 10 minute interview on the phone? So I go, yeah, all right. Or there's trick in the book. Yeah. So then I, so he goes to me, so how's it like being in the play? Like, you know, and what made you do this and da, da, da. And I chat to him all about it. And then he goes, you know you're on a lot of stuff and then we have like I would say like 30 seconds of the conversation is about overexposure yeah and then the first I hear of it is somebody texting me going I liked your chat about being overexposed and the what the fuck are you talking about yeah and the whole thing is just like about me and my paranoia about being I mean I you know I do worry about it a little bit but that wasn't the gist of the thing that just it was like it

39:48James Acaster:It wasn't you bringing it up. No. The way they word it, they don't even say, now with these articles, we asked him this.

39:54Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah.

39:54James Acaster:They just go, we want to see how Romesh feels about the play. Yeah. And then it just goes to you going, I don't think I'm overexposed. It's like, that guy must think he's overexposed. He brought it up out of nowhere.

40:05Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Shit. Anyway, great quote though. I liked it. Thank you. Here's the next one. I'm not a big drinker, but I do have my moments. I mean, I'm going to say that I said that.

40:16James Acaster:Yeah.

40:17Romesh Ranganathan:it's actually an alt from something you did say you said i'm not a big depressive but i do have my moments yeah evening standard 2017 they're both true how is your mental health by the way

40:30James Acaster:up and down yeah yeah yeah you asked me two weeks ago i'd say absolutely awful but now it's pretty

40:37Romesh Ranganathan:good your you and i have that in common that i guess that we've talked about mental health a lot and then as you talk about it more you become aware you know one of the things that i think is i found better is being aware of you can recognize the signs a bit more effectively so like it used to be that i just be i just fucking absolutely spiral and i just and i'd be like i can't deal with this and then i was able to recognize the early signs but then what would happen is I'd still spiral and I go you're spiraling how like how you normally do yeah you're aware of this like so have you become any more effective at kind of dealing with all of that yeah but like

41:16James Acaster:not every single time I don't knock it out the park every single time but like yeah sometimes I do what you just said and I'm for the whole thing I'm just going well this is happening now yeah and and then just start despairing about oh it's happening again it's just going to happen for the rest of your life and you just keep on falling into this yeah but then other times I'm like right this is happening so let's do some exercise let's start eating a bit better because you know that that's not making you feel good and uh maybe let's go for a walk immediately or let's look yeah and do some mindfulness whatever the thing is so sometimes i am better at just being like here's a bunch of stuff you know works do that stuff do you times not so much do you know what your triggers are i mean you know the gigs that i've not enjoyed yeah massive the biggest ones right and that's not to put any pressure on anyone coming to see me do gigs yeah relax it's gonna be fine relax it's fine my mental health isn't hanging in the balance um but like yeah so so with that you know i can i'm at my you know best mental health wise when i'm preempting that before gigs yeah i'm not going this gig will be shit but going it could be so let's before we go on uh just like calm down a bit um maybe anticipate if this if this is a really quiet gig how would i like to react to that yeah and let's make sure we follow that plan through and i don't i won't feel as bad afterwards and then afterwards having a bit of time to decompress rather than just like walking straight off and you know interacting with people or yeah onto a train or whatever maybe just sit in the dressing room for a bit and just like leave the gig there and then that's what i'm trying to get better at is you know not taking the gig with me uh if it's gone badly and just go and like we'll leave it there and we don't have to

43:06Romesh Ranganathan:analyze it anymore did i did i tell you the the mark schwartz ever tell you the mark schwartz story have i have i talked about this on this podcast before i was doing you know mark schwartz a goalkeeper okay anyway so so he i was doing the apollo it's like my first i think it was on a couple of tours ago i was doing four nights at the apollo right yeah and i was i couldn't believe it like i absolutely couldn't believe it so i was doing the first night and i do the first half of the show and he gets to the interval and i like an idiot i look at my phone and there's a tweet saying at rome shranga at the apollo not enjoying this at all right something like that okay so So that's on me.

43:46Romesh Ranganathan:Wow. That's on me for what I don't know, what idiot decides to mainline direct feedback from the gig? Like it's insanity. Obviously, I then go into one of my little cute spirals. So I'm absolutely like spinning out. I go to do the second half. I couldn't tell you how that second half went, right? I'm completely fucking batshit at this stage, right? All I'm thinking about is this one guy and how everything I'm doing must be making him hate it more and more and more. complete absolute fucking car crash mentally yeah i walk off stage going to the thing and and then obviously people are excited for me because i'm doing the apollo like everybody like my friends oh that was great and i'm just like i'm not even there you know like yeah yeah completely fucked up then there's you know the bar at the apollo we go to the bar and mark schwartz is there yeah right and he says to me and all i'm thinking is i want to go and say thank you to people that have come because it's weird if i don't go and like you know i've got guests there and then I'm just going to make like make a move as quick as I possibly can was he an arsenal goalkeeper no no no no so you don't care about him that much well I do you know I care about him as a human okay but um anyway I go to the bar and um he goes to me uh really enjoyed the show and I go thanks man it's all I could do was to go thanks man and then just wander off and like so I do the rounds and I go off and I don't think anything of it I mean when I say I don't think anything of it that's one of uh you know that's so low on the list of things I'm thinking about I'm trying to go to sleep and not cry in front of my family.

45:16Romesh Ranganathan:So anyway, I get over it. I come out the spiral. Months later, I get a text message from a mate saying, do you know that you're getting coated off a little bit on fighting talk? And I go, am I? And on fighting talk, they have an item, or they start discussing celebrity encounters that you found disappointing. and he is talking about the fact that he was really looking forward to meeting me he'd been a big fan he came to meet the apollo show was good and he all he wanted to do is come up and sort of say really enjoyed the show yeah i couldn't have looked less interested in talking to him right so then i go into it then i'm like oh i think i've gone back into that spiral again Like that.

46:06Romesh Ranganathan:I'm back in that evening. So then I message him on Twitter. But I can't say to him, I can't bring myself to say, this is really bad, right? Not really bad. I can't bring myself to say, I was in a spiral because somebody tweeted. Because you'd understand that.

46:24James Acaster:Yes. But also you don't want to make him feel bad. Yeah, yeah. When you have had a little bad mental health period or whatever, you don't want to use that as a way of making him feel. someone feel bad about what they did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, actually.

46:38Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I just messaged him going, look, man, I just heard like, you know, I couldn't listen to it, but I just knew that, you know, somebody had like told me the gist of it. So I just said, look, man, I'm really sorry. I was just really like, I was just in a bit of a funky place at that time. And so I wasn't as polite to you as I could have been. Like James Brown.

47:03Romesh Ranganathan:So I said to him, I'm really sorry that and then he replied going I didn't think anything that bad of it I just um it was just like uh it was just I remembered like meeting you and you didn't see him he didn't say he phrased it really nicely actually and so I was like okay um cool and I've never seen him since so I don't know I mean I've never I've never had an interact like a I've never had a clean slate

47:26James Acaster:interaction with him ever since then if you I mean if you do you've got to knock it out the park you You've got to be amazing if you see him again.

47:32Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, I'm going to turn it on, man.

47:33James Acaster:Yeah, yeah.

47:34Romesh Ranganathan:You know, I'm really going to go big. What's that? Will suggested get him on the show. Get him on the show? Get him on the show. I know, but then what do we talk to him apart from that?

47:45James Acaster:Goalkeeping.

47:45Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I don't want to talk to him about goalkeeping. I think goalkeeping's got to be pretty hyper-listic.

47:54Romesh Ranganathan:Get your mum to ask me a question. Yeah. This one is the one... We can skip that one if you don't like it. I want to hear it now. Okay, it started baking it, had a breakdown.

48:03James Acaster:Yeah, that's okay. It started making it. Does it say baking it on there? Yeah. So I didn't say that. False.

48:09Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, you tried to trick me. But it doesn't, you can go false on the card it says true. So there's no point going touche or like fucking mic drop. It's fucking wrong.

48:20James Acaster:You absolutely, I wish there was a camera on you because you absolutely acted like you'd got in there. Like you slugged that one off, but it was a clever one. Because I got a letter wrong deliberately.

48:32Romesh Ranganathan:That's a real red flag, if you don't mind me saying, about your behaviour there.

48:36James Acaster:Yeah, sure. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

48:39Romesh Ranganathan:False. That's not what it says. Okay.

48:42James Acaster:Forget that you've written that on the table.

48:43Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, fucking hell. I was having a podcast with Donald Trump. Yeah. Okay. It's our duty as comedians to go to places others wouldn't, like Wolverhampton or Skegness. Yeah, I don't think I said that. You didn't. You said, it's our duty as comedians to go to places others wouldn't dare. If people get bored, that's their prerogative. I'll defend your right to be bored, but boredom is subjective, and what balls one person may thrill another.

49:07James Acaster:There's no way I said that.

49:08Romesh Ranganathan:You did, Guardian 2013. What a dick.

49:15Romesh Ranganathan:Awful. Saved by the Bell was the first TV show that I was obsessed with, and probably in my head is still a benchmark. It's the biggest TV show on the planet. Definitely said that. You did say that? Yes. Radio Times last year. don't mind don't mind if i do yeah true that one uh do you still like do you ever watch it now

49:35James Acaster:i haven't watched it back i imagine it would be awful if i if i watched it back but as a kid um it blew my mind james yeah are you going to do any more music yeah i uh i should be releasing an album next year it's very different to the one that i did before but like it's literally a music project that i started recording before i did stand-up yeah so like in 2007 so all the drums on it and me in 2007 and my friend playing all the bass and guitar and then we kind of returned to it over the years and finally finished it so it will come out next year and i'm so excited about it even though i'm pretty sure it might be the most thing just for me that i'm releasing yeah

50:18Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, so I'm working on an album. Great. And then I'm really having a lot of fun making it. Yeah. But I can't imagine a single person wants to hear it. So it is very self-indulgent in that way. But then, like, it's good to do that, right?

50:36James Acaster:I think if you're doing music and you're not a musician, but you're known for other stuff, I think you kind of have no choice but to approach it like that. Yeah, yeah. Because otherwise, if you're thinking about an audience for yourself as a musician, it's just going to get confusing. It's so insane, isn't it? It's like, well, what's that? What even is my audience in that regard? And at the end of the day, when I see that someone who's not a musician but is known for something else, is releasing something, I either don't want to listen to it or often I'll want to listen to it because they haven't shied away from the fact they are this other thing.

51:16James Acaster:They're not trying to go like, this is me. And now I'm a musician. I'm really serious or whatever. It's like that William Shatner album that he did with Ben Folds is absolutely brilliant.

51:25Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah.

51:26James Acaster:Because he goes, I'm William Shatner. And I'm going to be William Shatner for the whole album. Yeah. And this is like, when you think of William Shatner making an album, this is what it sounds like. Yeah. And I've just worked with a bunch of really great people. And so like, otherwise, yeah, sometimes it is just going to be for the person who's made it. And it was really fun. And they loved it. and they know, you know, I'm going to get more eyes on this because I've got a profile anyway, but also people aren't going to take it seriously because of that same profile. Yeah, yeah. But whatever, I'm lucky to be in the situation that's doing.

51:56Romesh Ranganathan:When you make, with this album that you make, obviously you started it before you started doing comedy, but are you making any concessions to the fact that you're a comedian making music or is it just, is there any difference to how you'd approach it if you weren't coming into this as a comic?

52:12James Acaster:I don't think so. I mean, I think with the last one I did, which was like a collaboration with loads of musicians during lockdown over the Internet, I did make it like I kind of just lent into the first idea I had and didn't worry about if it would look too comedian or whatever. So I dressed like an alligator for the whole thing. And that was because I genuinely wanted to do it. And I was like, there's a part of you that when you think of it goes, oh, no, you shouldn't do that because you're trying to do music now and you don't want to do anything that's funny. and then you're like yes i do yeah i do like so let's not so that was the lesson there was just like whatever this project feels like it should be you just do that project and so with this one there's yeah nothing really it was like oh this should be this feels like it should be funny or whatever because all the songs were written before i even started doing stand-up and if anything we just simplified them even more because you know when i was 22 there was no meeting the audience halfway so there's like 60 stems 60 different parts on every single song and we had to get those down so it was actually digestible um but like yeah you know the music videos we're making are all from old camcorder footage from back then as well so you're just putting them together but yeah i guess you do have the knowledge of some people will know me you know pretty much everyone who listens to this or watches these videos knows me as a comedian so there will be an element of oh that that's when he was 22 and had much much bigger hair and was in a band and uh and whatnot and you just decide that that'll be probably funny to people rather than if it was a band they hadn't heard of, it'd just be like, okay, some footage of them when they're younger.

53:48James Acaster:But it will be funny and that's fine. And it's fine to just include that footage and be like, I'm fine with people going like, he looks stupid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he was younger, you know.

53:59Romesh Ranganathan:So you're 40 now?

54:02James Acaster:Yeah.

54:03Romesh Ranganathan:How's that?

54:04James Acaster:I hated it to begin with. I'm liking it now. but like yeah when i turned 40 and i think maybe because of covid and we all lost those few years and so i think we all felt like oh i'm suddenly this age yeah yeah and that wasn't nice and then like that was like yeah then like moving towards 40 and being like this is too soon i thought i had more time before i got here yeah and really didn't like turning 40 but uh actually now i quite like it it's back to just feeling like uh you know it's the start of a new decade and another new like you know chapter of oh i didn't really learn as much as i thought i would in the last decade um so let's you know not put too much pressure on this one either but like yeah i'm okay with it do you have like um do you have because i i'm older than you i'm 47 now and so i to be honest

54:53Romesh Ranganathan:looking good for it thank you thank you so much i am now like uh i'm completely devoid of any ambition and and you know i'm just sort of thinking i'm just gonna do whatever i feel like doing yeah i don't you know because and i'm not saying that like i think that i've done the best stand-up i've ever wanted you know like i still there's still i still think i haven't done you know i'm not there's i've not nailed it i've not completed it but i don't need to you know like whatever whatever i do now is i'm fine with do you have any like creative are there things like do Do you have like, is there an imaginary vision board with like what you want to have got done by the time you stopped doing all this?

55:34James Acaster:No, I never had that because like when I was like starting out, you know, the band was the thing before I did stand up that I was like, this is going to be the rest of my life. And I did have it all in my head of like, we'll play that festival, we'll release an album like this. I planned it out so much I didn't enjoy it while I was doing it. So then with stand up, I was like, you know, I mean, even though I famously said about not enjoying it, I have enjoyed it way more. there's been loads of stand-ups in my career that i've loved because i haven't gone in a year's time i want to be here in five years time i want to be here and all of that so loads of things i want to try to do but i just feel so i'll go yeah similar to you like if i didn't get to do any of them i'm still absolutely stunned with the stuff i have been able to do yeah like even like like when we filmed that cinderella film yeah i was like i'm doing a film i know i know this is insane i shouldn't be here yeah and like you know we're filming green screen or whatever yeah that was exciting an exciting day yeah green screen we're on location last night yeah we're turning into mice i'm turning into a mouse with rom and pierce brosnan's in this film i'm not in a scene with him but i'm in a film with pierce brosnan mini driver yeah and so like all that stuff that you just like you know shouldn't have got to do but you've got to do because you're a stand-up i'm sure there are actors who then watch stand-ups in films and like are you kidding me i'm an out-of-work actor and i could have done that better when they put him in but like you know uh we got a great life but like yeah so yeah there's other things i want to do but like you know i'll try and do them yeah but you're not bothered if you don't not not bothered that's not true yeah i'm more bothered about getting better at stand-up yeah and being able to grow that you know i texted the drummer that i absolutely love called seb rockford who's like on the last album music project i did and i said to him like oh what you've been up to and he went just get just trying to get better at drumming and i was like he's the best drummer in the world mate yeah that's why he loves drumming and enjoys it and i thought what a great attitude to be like most of us when we're asked about our careers we're just like yeah you know it's all right if people say how you're doing it's like yeah it's just tough at the minute but yeah these gigs are hard or yeah audiences have been shit or whatever but to just go just trying to get better at this um felt pretty good i was like oh that i feel so much simpler as well rather than going like yeah i'm trying to get in like no one's giving me a tv show or whatever yeah appreciating the thing that you've got yeah so like yeah i think just kind of going i'm trying to try and improve at this do you reckon that's better do you reckon that's why

58:10Romesh Ranganathan:you're you're so kind of selective about what you do because i because i think you know one of the problems for stand up not problems one of the uh double-edged swords of being a stand-up is you get offered so much other stuff and then that when you get offered to do other bits like then what they do is they take you away from that thing that you were doing and you know they take you away from your time of actually just beating on your craft of becoming a better stand-up are you

58:36James Acaster:conscious of that when you're thinking about things to do no i'll tell you what it honestly is is um that it's quite it's quite sobering the the offers that you get through um because like it might seem like oh he just turns everything down and he's just so selective if you looked at the stuff i get offered you go yeah yeah you turn all those down there's shit and and when that is what you get offered yeah you do go presuming there's a reason for the the fact that I'm not getting, because you go, you end up saying, again, it's so easy, you hear yourself say it and go, okay, I've answered my own question here.

59:11James Acaster:You just talk to your agent or whatever and go, I want to do this, this, this and this. And then you go, you've just listed things that you've basically gone, why am I not getting offered stuff that Daniel Day Lewis gets offered? And the finest musicians of the generation. And like, why am I not getting offered like documentaries? Yeah. Like Louis Farouk gets offered and all this. And then you're like, oh yeah, you want to do the best of everything and you're getting offered the stuff that matches your capability and your reach and you're not getting offered stuff that is beneath you you are getting offered what you are capable of yeah you don't want to do it because it's rubbish but you're not any better like what you're good at is doing stand-up and no one's going to offer you that because you're already doing it by yourself yeah and so like yeah you kind of go like yeah it's not like a thing of you go i probably wouldn't enjoy doing that but then i do do other stuff everything i say yes to because you go yeah i would enjoy that and it's not like you know when ed and i did celebrity hunted who was like you went i can't predict what you say what you're going to say yes to yeah and i was like but it's just they went do you want to go on the run while professional manhunters chase you you know yeah i would like to do that i think that would be fun yeah whereas like yeah someone goes do you want to do a travel log where you go around you know this amazing country and it would take this long to film it and go no probably not because i don't think i think two days in i'll start going like oh i actually don't like waiting around yeah to go and do all these things and i'm not built for this and i know that i'll be a nightmare i won't be a nightmare at work but i'll be like not a fun yeah oh james is making this shoot really fun i'll just be sitting there going oh they're like i've got to go up and go and talk to this guy about you know glass blowing or whatever i don't kind of rub and i'm not you know really thinking like oh this is taking me away from the craft yeah i'm just like oh i shouldn't have said yes to this i'm pretty bored now yeah where it's like it was not a moment i don't think on celebrity hunted where i thought god i said yes to this i was like yes i'm on the run this is funny and uh i didn't even care about how it came out i was like you know what i haven't watched it because it was just like I wanted the experience of what you're doing it.

1:01:28James Acaster:So, yeah, and same with, you know, Bake Off, which is like I watch Bake Off all the time. So, yeah, I want to be in the tent and make it up. But it's not the – up until that point, I'd never done any shows like that before. I turned them down. But only because I didn't watch them or I watched them and I thought, well, that would be too stressful. I love Strictly. I'm never going to do that. I think I would have a meltdown before the first episode went out in the rehearsals, so I know I can't do it. so it's not it's never anything like highfalutin it's just like you're going i i would i'd be so

1:01:57Romesh Ranganathan:bad at it or yeah there must be a way around that with the track i did a thing with like when you film with youtubers make tea with youtubers they're so frustrated with the process of making tv because yeah they just literally go and shoot it and the thing's done and like the idea of like you want me to walk again into the hotel yeah why oh and they're youtubers who are successful if

1:02:20James Acaster:They're on those TV shows. So not only do they not understand why they're being asked to do that, but they know that their instinct is right. Because it's right every week and they go viral and they've made so much money doing that. And now they're being asked by a format that is steadily dying. Can you retake that and walk up to there? And they're like looking at these people going, you're idiots.

1:02:45Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Just see, everything you're doing is shit. This is dead.

1:02:48James Acaster:This is all rubbish. This is dead. This is why no one's watching TV.

1:02:51Romesh Ranganathan:You need to move towards me, not the other way around. Yeah.

1:02:54James Acaster:Why are you telling me to do this? Let me tell you what we should do now. Because this is a waste of everyone's time. No one's going to watch this. If I was to make a video on YouTube and I wasted this much time getting a good shot where they walk in the door and doing all these fake introductions to everyone, no one would watch it online. No one would care about it. Especially when they've just proved with their instinct that it works. It's why some of those YouTubers are absolute monsters.

1:03:24Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I mean, listen, the worst thing you can find out is that you're right a lot of the time. It's like in terms of your humility and ongoing interaction with other people, it's arguably the worst thing that could happen, right?

1:03:35James Acaster:Yeah, because you're just like, everyone else is a moron. Yeah, that's why it probably is quite good for us that we're on stage going, well, rubbish again.

1:03:43Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah. I was wrong again.

1:03:45James Acaster:It's good for you.

1:03:46Romesh Ranganathan:I do think it's good for you. It's like eating your vegetables. Do you know what I mean? It's like your vegetables. Off menu, are you going to do it forever?

1:03:53James Acaster:I don't think we'll do it forever, but we'll do it for a while. It's really lucky. I feel like I really landed on my feet. Love Ed and Ben and genuinely love the topics that we're talking about. Love food and love asking people what their dream meals are. Like sincerely love asking them that. So like, yeah, I can't see us stopping in the near future. although I do remember when Josh, Josh Widdicombe stopped doing Quickly Kevin, the podcast, the football podcast they did an article about it it might have been in the Guardian about how they were finishing it and I did look at the photo of the three of them having finished and thought that feels, I'm looking forward to that that looks nice we've stopped doing the podcast I think that's strong I mean granted it's because you have this more popular podcast with Rob Beckett, that when you talk about most of your kids, you know, I think the nannies get written out of that podcast a little bit with those guys.

1:04:57James Acaster:I would say they get written out of history.

1:05:03James Acaster:Don't know how... Is it hell if there are nannies there?

1:05:08Romesh Ranganathan:Has it made you like a super, super food expert now?

1:05:11James Acaster:I know more about food. Yeah. And that's just from hanging out with Ed anyway. he knows a lot about it but like uh yeah i i know more about food than i did but i'm still not the person to go to for food recommendations or food advice really or like you know any any like questions people have about food i usually just then give them ed's number yeah you should just text this guy it's like properly properly right he knows his stuff yeah he knows his stuff whenever a guest brings up something i've never heard of before he'll go oh yes that's that and i'm like thank god i uh i tied myself to this guy because yeah well it's great it's great and also you know

1:05:49Romesh Ranganathan:it led to i would say a humiliation for me it was great where you know such a great day in lockdown i was laughing so hard two friends you know it's locked down emotions are high can you pop on as a remote guests onto off menu. Yeah. I say yes. Yeah. And then midway through the chat, it's pointed out to me that everything I've suggested is deep fried. Everything. Including the drink.

1:06:16James Acaster:Everything. It was so funny. I think it's on the internet. It's clipped up just that moment. The moment of realisation. The visual moment of your face just goes, it's so sad. You look so sad. How long before I knew did you and Ed know? Do you remember? I think we realised it in the moment. And one of us said, so this is deep fried as well. And then we pieced it together and went back through the menu and realised all of this is deep fried.

1:06:45Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, because I talked about deep fried lemonade as well.

1:06:47James Acaster:Yeah, you talked about it. So you didn't choose it, but you had talked about it. You had the Gobi 65, which I got into because of you. Oh, good. So I started ordering it because of you, and it's delicious. That's one of the best things about doing the podcast, whenever i get recommendations from the guests and i start doing it but uh it was when you chose donuts as your dessert and then we went back through the menu and realized you were just ordered everything was deep fried and even the drink you had gone into some sort of fantasy in your head about how you either liked or would like to try deep fried lemonade because it is a thing um so you you even went down that little daydream for a bit even though you'd chosen i believe an

1:07:29Romesh Ranganathan:ice blast i had chosen the nice past and in fact uh i as a result in that podcast i was uh offered the opportunity to have the machine in my house yeah you'd said that was a goal of yours yeah but i guess you didn't do it no because i've you know i fucking i don't live on my own yeah and also hanks in big yeah and you just sort of think like you invite somebody around yeah and you go do you on an ice blast and they go, sorry, that's a red flag. I'm going to leave immediately. This isn't the cinema. Yeah, you're clearly a psychopath. Why would I have an ice blast? Yeah. There's certain things you just go, do you know what?

1:08:06Romesh Ranganathan:I think I can live with only having ice blasts in retailers that have it. I don't need to have it on tap. And then they were saying we have to service it every now and again and obviously you've got to get – I'm not. Yeah, forget it. I can't – I'm not going to wait in for the ice blast person to come and service the machine I've got in my kit. It's just fucking insane. Like, what's happening here? One of the things I think about all the time

1:08:29James Acaster:is there's a day on Mock the Week where we're just chatting in between stuff and it turned out that Dara and Gary Delaney both had pinball machines in their house that were like these pinball machines they'd played on that were like their favourites and then they'd got them put in their house. And Dara said, obviously, the best bit is when you get it in your house is that you don't have to pay for it every time. You just got it. You just play in it. And Carrie went, no, no, but I like that. So I do have to pay for it every time.

1:09:01James Acaster:It was one of those things where you go, well, so forget the show we're doing. You pay 50p every time you want to play pinball in your own house. He was like, yeah. I was like, do you not like open it up every now and again and get the money out? He's like, no, no, just pay for it every time. You pay for it every time. You pay for it every time he wants to play pinball to put a quid in or whatever it is. And then he plays it. But he was like, that's part of it. I like it. I like the putting the money in at the beginning and then playing the pinball. But just have a 50p that just, you put it in.

1:09:29James Acaster:I'm the same one that goes on. He has to be like, that's in there now. That's done. I guess one day, if times get tough enough, smash that pinball machine open.

1:09:39Romesh Ranganathan:Sarah and Gary just going, it's not going as well as it used to. Yeah. We knew this would happen at some point. Break it open. Let's get all the pinball quits. Well, look, James, James, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. It's been a delight. Thanks for having me. I loved it. And, you know, I think everyone in this room did a great job. Yeah. The team always asks me to ask our guests for an exclusive, like, tip bit. Have you got anything? Gary Delaney pays for his own pinball machine. There you go. Thank you so much. Give it up for James Acaster, everybody. If you've enjoyed this episode of the Romesh Ranganathan Show, make sure you follow wherever you get your podcasts.

1:10:16Romesh Ranganathan:Apple, Spotify, YouTube, all the big ones. And you can enjoy more great content like this. And in fact, I'll go further to say, even if you didn't enjoy this episode, just follow anyway for Shits and Googles. And on the Thursday episode, we're going to be taking questions from viewers and listeners. Oh. So that's exciting, isn't it? It's interesting. Yeah. And if you've got an interesting story or a question for my mum and I, or even like a family dilemma you'd like us to help you with, please do get in touch via our email address podcast at rangaby.com. Or you can voice note or text on this number.

1:10:49Romesh Ranganathan:07731 6233 55. I'm Ramesh Ranganathan, and this has been the Ramesh Ranganathan Show. What a narcissist. See you next time. Oh, shut up, Ramesh. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra. That's the OG. It kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole line up now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian, Sunrise, and Vice Guava. And they all bring the monster energy punch. So if you've been living in the white can, branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe. And every single one is zero sugar. Tap the banner to learn more.