In short
James McAvoy discusses his acting-to-directing journey, learning accents, storytelling craft, dealing with fame and online criticism, and his first feature as a director, California’s Scheme (California Scheming).
Guest backgrounds
James McAvoy is a Scottish actor and now director. His screen career includes Band of Brothers and Shameless, and major films such as The Last King of Scotland, Atonement, and X-Men (he references five films). He also stars in Marvel’s Split (as one of the “23 personalities” characters). He has stage experience and has done stand-up.
Key claims
He says acting is “story, story, story,” not emotion performance; when the story is happening, he stops thinking about technique. He avoids DMs/comments and doesn’t read reviews because he finds them cattier than useful. He prefers connected, imperfect accents over technically perfect ones. He frames authenticity/integrity as central to his directing debut.
Notable examples
Getting his first role via a teacher’s film script and youth theatre; practicing crying in front of a Celtic mirror; “chubby McAvoy” as a memorable bad X-Men review; vomiting on request for a film scene (Filth) and how it affected his agent’s visit; X-Men’s ensemble “camp” camaraderie and fan reaction risks.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODaytime Discos and Childhood Parties
0:00 to 1:30
Learn about the fun and chaos of childhood parties and events.
“We did one at Halloween and it was like from three till nine or something like that.”
Early Memories of Nightclubs
1:30 to 3:30
Explore nostalgic memories of underage nightclubs in Glasgow.
“And by nine o 'clock, it's absolutely smashing it.”
Stand-Up Comedy in Afternoon Events
3:30 to 6:00
Discover the dynamics of stand-up comedy during daytime gigs.
“I had to do a bit of stand-up in the TV show that I'm not directing, that I'm acting in at the moment.”
Nervousness and Performance
7:30 to 10:10
James discusses his performance strategies and managing nerves.
“Anyway, so the pickled onion doesn't cut it, but their beefy munch does.”
Journey to Acting
10:10 to 12:30
James shares his unexpected path into acting from a unique background.
“What was the kind of journey for you getting to acting?”
Early Acting Experiences
12:30 to 14:00
Hear about James’s early roles and the serendipity of his film career beginnings.
“and like try to practice in front of the mirror.”
James' Youth Theatre Experience
14:00 to 15:00
James shares how he followed a girl to a youth theatre and got his start in acting.
Breakthrough Role as an Extra
15:00 to 16:00
He recounts his experience auditioning for a film and landing a small role.
The Influence of Clara Hara
16:00 to 18:00
James discusses the pivotal role of his drama teacher in his acting journey.
Finding His Path in Acting
18:00 to 19:00
He reflects on his ambitions and the randomness of his acting journey.
“hi and he goes no you'll know you're a whip it's hard on and I was like leveller absolute absolute leveller that was before I'd even done a take as an actor in my life.”
Show all 38 chapters
From Pastry Chef to Acting
19:00 to 20:00
James humorously details his attempts to support himself as a pastry chef while pursuing acting.
Showcase Experience at Drama School
20:00 to 24:00
He shares his memorable showcase experience and the pressure to impress agents.
Accents and Character Work
24:00 to 27:00
James discusses the importance of accents in acting and his natural ability with them.
“You're not thinking about the accent, you're just purely emoting.”
Emotional Connection in Acting
27:00 to 28:00
He elaborates on how to convey emotion authentically in performances.
“No, but I respect that because I, to even get to that point, every night I would have to like really, really, really work hard.”
The Essence of Storytelling in Acting
28:00 to 29:00
Explore how storytelling is at the core of acting and performance.
James McAvoy's Acting Journey
29:00 to 31:30
James shares insights into his acting experiences and the importance of authenticity.
“well yes but um based on what you've just said about what you do every night versus me, I suspect I've just discovered I was fairly substandard.”
Navigating Relationships in the Industry
31:30 to 34:10
Discussing the significance of long-standing relationships with agents and mentors.
“But at times, at times she's been, she's been, I wouldn't say brutal, but she's been unflinchingly honest with me.”
Romesh Ranganathan's Tour Announcement
34:10 to 34:20
Romesh announces his upcoming tour, emphasizing the impact of humor.
“Ramesh Ranganathan will change your life.”
Experiencing the X-Men Universe
34:20 to 36:50
James reflects on his experiences in the X-Men films and their impact.
“You're still allowed to joke, aren't you?”
Dealing with Reviews and Public Perception
36:50 to 40:00
The discussion centers around the effects of reviews on an actor's psyche.
“Or did that have any effect on your experience of doing it at all?”
Growing Through Criticism
40:00 to 42:04
James discusses the importance of constructive criticism and personal growth.
“And it was like, it actually wasn't that bad a review of the film.”
Reflecting on Early Acting Experiences
42:04 to 45:30
James shares a challenging early acting experience that shaped his career.
“Edinburgh trying to emulate the child catch from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.”
Choosing Roles: Blockbusters vs. Independents
45:30 to 47:59
James discusses his approach to selecting film roles and the balance between big and small projects.
“Are you careful now about kind of going for sort of blockbuster-y type stuff like X-Men and independent stuff, or do you just do whatever you feel like doing?”
Transitioning from Acting to Directing
47:59 to 49:56
James talks about the transition from being an actor to directing and the challenges that come with it.
“Speaking of which, we've got a question from my mum, haven't we?”
The Story Behind California Scheming
49:56 to 52:56
James elaborates on his film California Scheming and the unique story it tells.
“When I say West Coast, they're not sort of gangster rappers.”
Anxiety and the Pressure of Performance
52:56 to 56:01
James shares his experiences with performance anxiety and how it affects him.
Anxiety Dreams and Directing Fears
56:01 to 57:09
Explore the common fears actors face, including anxiety dreams related to performances and directing.
“I think you wouldn't be able to do that.”
The Director's Dilemma
57:10 to 58:15
James McAvoy discusses the challenges of being a first-time director and the pressures of creative responsibility.
“Even though I've been acting for 30 years.”
Intense Performances and Emotional Stakes
58:16 to 59:18
Delve into the emotional intensity of performances and the anxiety-inducing moments in filmmaking.
“That's unfortunate because what would be quite good is to just line it with a little bit of, the studio took it away from what your initial vision was just sort of insulate yourself a little bit, do you know what I mean?”
Unexpected Humor in Tension
59:19 to 1:00:48
James highlights the humor in tense moments and discusses the response of audiences to his latest film.
“We made up the dialogue because we don't know what they said and they can't really remember what they said.”
Music and Cultural Identity
1:00:49 to 1:02:19
A humorous exploration of how music plays a role in cultural identity and generational differences.
“And is there a kind of Scottish referendum silent majority kicking about that are the same as me?”
Parenting and Music Tastes
1:02:20 to 1:03:18
James shares candid insights into his relationship with his children's music preferences and his own experiences.
Misquoted Game: Insights and Laughter
1:03:19 to 1:08:30
Engaging in a fun game that reveals James's thoughts on various quotes, mixing humor with personal insights.
“And some of them we've like, am I allowed to say this?”
Character Recognition and Its Impact
1:08:31 to 1:10:03
Discussing the joys and challenges of being recognized for iconic roles past and present.
“Yeah, I've trimmed them quite a lot, but they really go...”
Final Thoughts on California Scheming
1:10:03 to 1:10:45
The hosts express their admiration for the film 'California Scheming' before moving on to final questions.
“Okay, James, listen, you've been a fantastic guest and before we get into our final question of the show, I do want to say, California Scheming, it's a great film.”
Aging and Appearance in the Industry
1:10:45 to 1:12:46
James McAvoy discusses his perspective on aging and how it affects his career and appearance.
“No, so all it is is the team, they're desperate to have like a viral moment or for somebody that we've had that's done a lot of interviews to say something exclusive or something you've never said publicly before.”
Insight into the Meantime Project
1:12:46 to 1:13:32
James shares details about his upcoming project 'Meantime' and its interesting storyline.
“and I think do what you want to do I'm not criticising anybody that does what they want to do absolutely do what you want to do but as an actor I don't want to mess with it you're hamstringing yourself aren't you?”
Collaborating with Frankie Ball
1:13:32 to 1:14:24
Discussion of collaboration with Frankie Ball on the adaptation of his work, including the challenges and honors involved.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Romesh Ranganathan:So you do daytime discos, basically? We did one at Halloween and it was like from three till nine or something like that. Imagine going to a party and then you can watch Match of the Day. It's amazing. We did one and then I went out for dinner afterwards. Oh, mate. It's the dream. It's incredible. It's the dream. There's loads of like garage brunches and shit, you know. You used to have a thing when I was a kid, I never was allowed to go to it, but it was called the Unders in Glasgow. and it would be all the proper nightclubs like Archaos and the Arches and all that kind of stuff. And it would be under 16s, basically, under 15s and under 16s.
0:36So it would all be school kids in there all sneaking drinks and stuff like that, partying from 12pm till 4pm. People getting stabbed and all that kind of stuff. But you'd hear these stories.
0:45Romesh Ranganathan:It's nice for that to happen in the afternoon, isn't it? I'd love to get stabbed in the afternoon. If you're going to get stabbed, make sure it's before tea time. But yeah, I love it. It's wicked, man. It's really good. And the one thing I was worried about was that that's because sometimes I do matinee standup gigs. And then you worry that in the afternoon, people aren't going to be up for it. But the truth is, if you can get the room dark enough, people are sort of all right. Yeah. And they've had a bit of a drink during the day, which is a bit different. Yeah, it's totally it's actually totally fine.
1:17Romesh Ranganathan:I reckon three till four is a bit sticky. You know, people are sort of I've just had lunch. Yeah, yeah, they're starting to get that, like, I think I need a nap. I'd love a lie down right now. And a Mars bar. And then they start to go, hold on a minute. This is all right. And by nine o 'clock, it's absolutely smashing it.
1:45Oh, shut up, Romesh.
1:48Romesh Ranganathan:My guest today is an actor and now director whose career has spanned everything from British TV and indie films to major Hollywood blockbusters. He first broke through in Band of Brothers and Shameless before going on to star in films like The Last King of Scotland, The Chronicles of Narnia and Atonement. He's been both superhero and supervillain, appearing in the Marvel Universe and gave an unforgettable performance. That was too loud. As a man with 23 personalities in Split, I thought I was busy. After more than 30 years of screen, is now stepping behind the camera to direct his first feature, California's...
2:24Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, shit! He's now stepping behind the camera to direct his first feature, California's Scheme. It's the amazing James McAvoy! Thank you. How are you doing, man? Can I ask... Was that... Was the... Okay, show him. It was scripted. And I thought I was basically voice scripted. I was wondering if maybe you were like, oh, that was a good, better reference. No, can I tell you... I'll be honest with you. What happened was, it was in the script. I felt confident about it until you were sat opposite me and then I thought it's so egg, right and then what I do when I think something's egg is I deliberately, like so often if I do something shit I'll go just to sort of undercut it I mean if you'd have done it like proper cool and I thought I was busy I mean that would have been the problem is then people take you and actually look, the truth is I'd love to do that but the problem is as you know people don't know when you're joking or not so you have to really signpost it you do and I thought I was busy you know that is so I don't get shit online it was funny it was good thanks man now thank you so much for coming to the podcast Bodafide Star thank you legend of the game and you're joining us in this back office I appreciate it here we are no this is nice I like it do you like it yeah it's pretty good yeah we sort of yeah anyway I don't want to say anything this is very this is very of the moment it is isn't it yeah It feels like this will be something they'll use in a documentary about when podcasts first went to video.
3:51Romesh Ranganathan:The year that podcasts died. We knew it was creatively bereft. I had to do a bit of stand-up in the TV show that I'm not directing, that I'm acting in at the moment. There's the Frankie Boyle thing, right? Yeah, there's a whole bit where I'm on drugs and I find myself on stage at an open mic night. And I made a joke, I think I made a joke about man buns in podcasts. Something along the lines, I'm meant to be dying, so I'm not delivering it very well. on the show but I said something about the thing of like confidence is a thing you need to worry about as soon as a guy starts saying things like he's got life off figured out you know he's just bought a podcast mic and he's got a man bun that is it but you know what there is something about because I realise that trope but there is something about having a stand in front of you that makes you go before you know it you're going and that's the thing with masculinity you know you just can't you just find yourself doing it and I always think I would never become that guy then occasionally I'll say it do you know what I mean yeah yeah but that listen that's what being a man is in 26 we are all trying to be Jordan Peters aren't we now we've got your by the way is he a good year or a bad year I'm not quite sure okay well this I just see little flashes of him and I'm like I can't be bothered to find it out this is a great it's a great point it's a great point of contention actually because to some people to a lot of people he's definitely a baddie right and then there's some I don't want to stereotype generalise but some men who think actually he's got something decent to say.
5:16Romesh Ranganathan:So what will happen is, is on this podcast, we might say something like, that sounds like the sort of shit Jordan Peterson would say. And then we'll get a comment like, Well, what I'd love you to do is actually specify what it is specifically you've got a problem with. Because actually what I think you'll find is he's talking a lot of sense. That's where we're at with him. And actually, weirdly, we're kind of like that with Andrew Tate as well. I know. sometimes if you you would think it's a safe that's a safe guy to diss do you know what I mean I know and for the record I think he's a right but but but people are just like really like I can't why would you why would you say that why would you say that do you know what I mean there's something regardless of the things that he issues and his opinions and all that kind of stuff the seriousness and the the anger with which he delivers everything it's just like oh man It must be really hard being here.
6:11Romesh Ranganathan:It must be difficult. It's that combination of like, he talks about smoking cigars and like being by the pool and all these women and having a sports car. And despite all of that, he doesn't look like any fun to hang out with at all. I know. You just think that would be the most intense, horrible evening you could ever have. Enjoy your whiskey, man, like a fucking man. Oh man, intense people, they're hard. It's hard being around intense people. Really hard. When they like, you just sat down and you go, You're like, hi guys, how's it going? You're in. I'm going to tell you about my life. I'm going to tell you about everything.
6:43I'm not saying that's what he does. He might not. But you just go like, oh man, just strap in. This is going to be a long night. And it's generally a fucking actor.
6:54Romesh Ranganathan:And it's also, you know, that unbroken eye contact thing I find really is tricky. People that shake your hand too long. Yeah, it's hard. But then sometimes you shake hands with somebody and you know that they've read something about shaking hands. Should the triangle firm? Yeah, you know that sort of, you know that sort of asserting power or confidence or whatever in your handshake. Do you ever get the one where somebody intentionally tries to get you too soon and crush your fingers like that? And that's, you can't do that all the time. And if you repeat meat and you repeat shake and they do it again, you go, you're doing this in purpose.
7:28Yeah. I had a plumber that did that. A plumber? Yeah.
7:31Romesh Ranganathan:Weird move from a plumber. Now we've got your present. Now I don't know. I'm like, give me a... Well, let's see what you think. I don't want to give it any time It's either pickled onion monster munch or pickled onion walkers right It's pickled onion monster munch And also Oh hello It's a rapper's delight hip hop themed cookbook Now I don't In fairness we are going to talk about your film But I don't know how into hip hop you are But there's Tiramisu Public enemies of soup
8:05MC hams And eggs oh god that isn't sort of it's pretty good Grandmaster Flash Fried Steak it's pretty good this is pretty good Queen La Beefa
8:17Romesh Ranganathan:now Queen La Beefa sounds disgusting
8:22Busta Key Lime Pie yeah Tiramisu Elliot that's pretty good yeah LL Cool Souffle that's pretty good Moose Dief
8:38Moose Def sorry Dief is how we say it in Scotland Moose Def oh man
8:42Romesh Ranganathan:the Sugarhill Meringue oh it's good Meringue Meringue having said all that I suspect that you've had all the fun with that book that you're going to yeah it's done now because you're not going to make I meant to catch it I meant to catch it you're not going to make a Moose Def are you I might do you're not going to make a Queen Labiefer if you have people you can't tell people that's what you've made I mean 100 % tell people that's what I've made but also a queen by the way feel free to feel free to eat the Monster Munch do you want to tell him I'm munching my monster
9:18Romesh Ranganathan:how much Monster Munch are you eating generally I've got a 24 pack of Monster Munch knock-offs from Lidl is it Lidl or Aldi Aldi in the house at the moment they've got knock-off you're doing alright though They do their own version. Yeah, I know, but I still... You'd love a bargain. And Aldi have done that. Anyway, so the pickled onion doesn't cut it, but their beefy munch does. And what are the shapes like? They're like the claws. They're like me monster claws. Yeah, okay. Are they monster claws? Have you heard this debate about this? Sorry to get too hard-hitting. But if you hold that up... No, the actual snack.
10:03Romesh Ranganathan:The other way around. Let me show you. Can I take this? I won't give it back to you to eat. No. I think it's supposed to be that is a full monster. Oh, um. All right. Yes, that is what they say. Yeah, it's not like a claw, apparently. That is the done. What was the kind of journey for you getting to acting? Because you've talked a little bit about your Scottishness. And, you know, we talk about the fact that there are barriers to entry to certain people from certain backgrounds. Were you always going to be an actor? Was that always the plan? I had never done anything. I had never done any youth theatre or there was no drama school or drama class or anything like that in my school.
10:44My next door, not my next door neighbour, my teacher's next door neighbour, my English teacher's next door neighbour was a famous actor, stroke director, stroke philanthropist, stroke all-round amazing producer and director. He had played Lady Macbeth at the Citizens in the heyday of the Citizens in the 70s and we were reading Macbeth when I was like 15 in class. So he came in, talked to us about Macbeth and I'd recognised him. He'd been like baddies and vertical limit, I think. We like Chris O'Donnell and he'd been in movies with Schwarzenegger. I'd seen him in movies and I was like, that's amazing.
11:16And so I was like asking him lots of questions. He was taking a bit of stick from the class and at the end I said, listen, if you're making another film, if you're directing anything else, can I come and make your tea or make your coffee or whatever? Did you say that straight off the bat? That's a good one. And he said, yeah, totally. Because we had to do work experience at like banks or wherever your dad worked or whatever. And I thought this would be more interesting. Anyway, but six months later, he's making a film. He phones the school. He says that wee guy, does he want to come down? So I went down to the production office and he gave me the script.
11:46He went, read that. And I read it as quickly as I could. I'm quite a slow reader and it took me quite a while. I came back and went, can you make yourself cry? And I was like, what? I don't know. He went, go home. Read it all again. Learn these scenes. Kevin Savage was at home. and see if you can cry. And then the next day I came back, did it for him, cried a bit.
12:08Romesh Ranganathan:How difficult was that to do to make yourself cry? I don't really remember, to be honest with you, but I do remember doing the thing of standing in front of the mirror. And the mirror was quite high. It was a Celtic mirror that I had that had all the trophies that we've won and all that kind of stuff. So I'm literally looking at my cultural victories as I practice my acting. It was a Champions League, yeah. That's the first club to win it. and like try to practice in front of the mirror. I haven't done zero acting in my entire life. I've been involved in a pretty cool music department in my school and that was about it.
12:39And went in and gave it a go. I can't really remember the audition too much, but I remember before we left the room, we went, right, we've got the guy that's going to play Kevin. Are you serious? Yeah. And I walked out of that room and walking down the corridor in dreadlocks was Andy Serkis, who I recognize from a kids TV show Called Streetwise Yeah Where he played I think a saxophone Playing Crime fighting Mountain bike Courier delivery guy I've seen that so much I know it's so So like That again It's so hack And It was on like BBC or ITV Or something like that And I loved that show And I was like Oh my god It's the guy If he's Streetwise And And David Heyman Our director Was like He's the real deal In terms of accent Because he had to play A Glaswegian pimp And so one of my I got the job In like five seconds later I'm sitting down at a table and he's recording my voice and like doing lines that he has seen how I would say it as a Glaswegian
13:34Romesh Ranganathan:So a sort of vampire in your accent Yeah I know, really he owes me a lot And then what happened after that so that, because that, to be honest with you that sounds like, I mean that went pretty smoothly didn't it I don't think I'm particularly good in that film it's called The Near Room it's a film about child prostitution and pornography in Glasgow, Adrian Dunbar was in it, Julie Graham was in it David At Hara, really amazing cast and then I was just farting about for a little while There was a girl in that film called Alana Brady Who I fancied And she told me that she went to a youth theatre So I went, I'm going to that youth theatre And I followed her to the youth theatre Which was in Paisley It was called Paisley Youth Theatre Pace And that was really good There was a person there I really didn't do much after that I got a part in a bill through that youth theatre Did that, rocked up on an Extras open audition kind of Casting call, thinking, I've done one film It's Glasgow crew Maybe somebody will recognise me And if there's any wee parts I might get a wee part That's exactly what happened That is insane I know There was a couple of The crew From the first film The near room A year and a bit later Who remembered me And went James are you here for like Extra roles And I was like Yeah yeah And they went Listen there's a wee part And I was like It's literally what I Thought might happen Alright brilliant You don't see me I'm a silhouette in the movie But I'm also on the poster For the movie That was like in Cannes and all that I'm a guy in World War I who was too young to sign up get shell shock and then they stick him up on a post and let the Germans shoot him as punishment and Johnny Lee Miller is all messed up from the memory of it and that happened and then it was just like I don't know what to do I don't have an agent I don't have anything like that and there was a woman at Paisley Youth Theatre called Clara Hara to whom I owe a lot who really helped me work on some speeches and if she hadn't done that I wouldn't have gone to drama school so did you I mean you'll be terrible for like if they got you in to talk to school kids about how to get into it do you know what I mean well you just try and you get it yeah but what you'd have to do is just turn up somewhere just ask if you can do tea and they'll give you a part in the film and then later on just turn up somewhere else and hope that someone will recognise you and they will and they'll put you in that and then it sort of goes to them I got really lucky it's not like we make that much stuff in Scotland and I managed to get lucky and get attached but then even then when you was just stuck because obviously you know you're sort of the way you describe it is you kind of fell into it you thought oh that looks interesting that looks interesting then but even then were you thinking I've got an ambition of because often when you when people say they want to be an actor what they mean is they want to be a really famous actor sometimes yeah and was that what was that your thinking or was it no not at all I mean honestly it was like I was an actor before I really realised that I was I wanted to be one yeah and then I enjoyed it and also like it paid me I didn't it didn't pay a lot of money but for me I mean it paid a lot of money um and I was like this is a interesting thing to do it's interesting people it's creative um and I'd started to learn that I was creative through this music department that I was in at the at my high school it was run by two incredible teachers Craig Smith and Ann Marie Darcy and they sort of really helped open me up and helped me realize I could be something it was okay to maybe not just be like a typical like wee guy in the street yeah yeah i'm fucking gonna do you in my do you know what i mean and um i probably my heart was never in it but that was that was what it felt like i was doing and um they let me feel like it was okay to be artistic and creative and then i found this whole bunch of people that are like a wandering circus of or like a kind of weird sort of artistic army that get together for a few months yeah and like stoke about glasgow and and like pretend and put cameras on things and then drink loads and have a great party and i didn't do any of that because i was too young but but i remember my first day as an actor i've got this tiny wee winnebago and i'm getting changed in that and somebody comes in to microphone me and stuff and i'm like what's going on here and uh it's not even that far away from the my home drum chapel the council estate I grew up on is Mary Hill and we're in a sort of fairly rough part of Mary Hill and I come out of the trailer and this AD is walking me to set and somebody a wee guy who's like 8 years old just leans out his window he's like you an actor?
17:58and I was like eh hi and he goes no you'll know you're a whip it's hard on and I was like leveller absolute absolute leveller that was before I'd even done a take as an actor in my life. Yeah, that's horrible, isn't it? I kind of appreciated it.
18:19Romesh Ranganathan:And is it true you tried as a pastry chef to get through drama school? I did four years on and off, mainly on as a trainee confectioner. And have you still got the skills? Well, I did win celebrity stand-up to cancer bake-off. Of course, yeah. Of course. It's much lauded, much talked about. Yeah, Jesus. I mean, that's the main thing we'll chat about. Obviously. obviously I mean I talk about it a lot yeah who were you up against in that I mean I know but just for the benefits Dame Kelly Holmes who is competitive and I think she was genuinely annoyed that she lost yeah and it was very close she was very very very good David Baddiel who David Baddiel's sort of shit at everything isn't he yeah and he was and he was like I don't care I don't care if I'm good at baking I'm here to make an arse of myself almost the worse I am the better it is but to a man the four of us that were there were all quite stressed on the second one and we're like why do we care so much and David Biddle was like I feel like I'm on the verge of tears and I don't even care I just I know it's good if it's bad I know it's better if there's a shit and it's like I'm like really stressing here David Biddle and Anne-Marie the singer right right right okay Anne-Marie was she competitive she no I don't know I think she felt the pressure but she was really chill she was cool but you were they pissed off because you've got background then I don't know I mean that must have annoyed them slightly I do I've got previous your ringer basically and I did fess up I said it on camera because they were they were they were they were lauding my scones yeah and as you would and and and I did say look I used to make a lot of these in the bakery and I know a lot of the hacks and all that kind of stuff and they were like oh you're in the bakery and I was like yeah yeah I was a trainee confectioner and they were like oh my god and Paul loved that and they edited that out they just cut it out completely I know I know well congratulations very much cheers uh now accents is that something you've always been good at it had to be i guess um there's just not much uh not a lot of not a lot gets made in scotland um and so yeah had to be i remember when i came down i was auditioning or did you know we did a big showcase at the end of our three years at drama school down in london at the criterion theater and you did you had three minutes you had a minute and a half of a speech and you had a minute and a half within a three minute scene with somebody else a duologue you had three minutes to get an agent at the end of three years i know maybe maybe six minutes maybe three minutes in six minutes i'm not quite sure shared with somebody else but you had minutes to get yourself an agent and anyway i was lucky i got offers i went and met all these agents and they were all like i'm going to put you up for this next thing that's coming in like i've not even signed with you yet but they're like so here's the script for james bond and you're like shut up and then you see the next one and they're I've got this script It's just come in I think you'll be perfect for it I'm going to put you in With the cast and direct it tomorrow So here's the script for Superman And you're like Shut up And bearing in mind I looked At 21 I looked like a 14 year old Sort of Like you call it Plague victim or something like that Yeah With like see through skin I was so white And And I was like What is going on And then I went to see The person who finally Became my agent Ruth Young Who is still my agent To this day And she's incredible And she happens to be From up the road In Edinburgh and I said to her are you going to put me up for anything or what kind of things do you see me doing she's like I'm not going to put you up for anything I went alright why not because I'm not your agent yet you've got to sign with me first and I was like she's the one for me I like to be spanked but she was you know she was like I was like if I do something what do you see me doing she's like probably play Scottish kids for a little while and then we'll see if we can diversify from there you know and that's just not the way it happened at all I was a professional Englishman for like the first five years of my career and American and Irish before I even got to play Scottish Did she tell you that you're going to have to pick up accents or did it just come up on an audition I knew I could do it anyway I knew I had that strength in my boat and I made a virtue of that in my final showcase at college as well I led with that Can you learn to be good accents because I went for I've done a couple of auditions and I've never tried to do an American accent.
22:37Romesh Ranganathan:And people kept saying to me, if you want to do, I mean, I'm not an actor. I've accidentally got acting jobs. But occasionally you get asked to do like audition for something and then they go, can you do an American accent? And I can't. I went to an audition for The Martian. Oh, wow. As like brown, no, just brown guy at computer screen sort of. And I said, do you want me to do an American on my own accent? I said, why don't you try American? I hadn't prepared American. So I had to freestyle it in the moment. Yeah. and Halston we here have a problem yeah yeah oh it shouldn't be definitely shouldn't be in that sector that's that was pretty good man
23:18I think you've got a future as an American
23:21Romesh Ranganathan:anyway she started corpsing while she was doing the tape so it went badly but I did I've done but do you think anyone you've got an aptitude for it haven't you yeah I guess so I mean audiences can be the judge of that some of them might be like how's he fuck but um i don't know what it is i think i've watched a lot of stuff as a kid everybody watches a lot of stuff as a kid mostly what you hear as a kid in scotland is english or american american even more than english and um and so you're getting a lot of that noise in your ear i think i don't know what it is maybe it's it's i for me personally whenever i have to learn an accent and you have to sort of do the phonetics and do the theory behind it and all that I think it robs you of something genuine in your voice which stops you communicating as a real person and you can do the technique perfectly but really I don't care I would rather watch somebody do a 80 % decent accent yeah even if it's Scottish I'd rather watch them do it and it not be perfect but it was connected and true and real and their voice still felt like their voice and it wasn't like they suddenly are somebody else or something you know what I mean and it's like that to me is really important so I basically try not to like have to learn an accent I just try to find myself doing it because that's what I was going to ask you because acting in and of itself is you know conveying the emotion is is diff is really difficult you know and um and I don't know how hard you find it but then if you to add another layer of of distance between you and what you're trying to convey like by doing an accent like when you when you're you see I just got excited here we're about to talk about acting let's go man but when So when you're doing a different accent, delivering a different accent, are you able to get to a point where you're not thinking about that?
25:07Romesh Ranganathan:You're not thinking about the accent, you're just purely emoting. And the downside of that is you might not be thinking about it so much that some of the vowel sounds slip or something like that. But I think that the connection to the story is more important. And what you just said about acting is difficult when you're conveying the emotion and stuff like that. I think that the more and more I do it the less and less I have to convey because you're just going like we're not here to convey emotion we're here to tell stories and if the story is being told right now with me doing absolutely nothing I won't do anything but if me doing nothing and the story's not being told what do I need to do to tell the story and then you start to kind of just see it in terms of stories and if you're good enough at just like being in the moment that story is literally happening to you at that moment you're not having to play anything so you're not thinking i should be looking like this it's just happening at its best when it's really good you're just like you're you're doing a you're doing some sort of you're doing some sort of amazing piece of like what are those like things those experiences where you get you pay and you're in the middle and there's actors all around you it's all happening to you you need to solve it you're basically just doing a really high class version of that yeah and if you can forget if you can just forget that you're pretending and then it's just happening to you and then you start to find that you're not trying to emote or try to show emotion these stuff just comes do you know what I mean and that's when it's really good and then sometimes when it's not all coming together and you go like they just need to see him crying right now you can make yourself cry when you need to do you know what I mean and you know you're conscious that you're like I'm making myself do it but then I think like because I've just finished doing a play and doing that every night it starts to become you can do it without really being there you know you're sort of and then trying to convince yourself that you're hearing these words for the first time it's so hard man i can't i mean are you able to do that yeah fuck yeah fuck i love being on stage and i've been lucky to do some good stuff i have done earlier in my career i've done stuff that just wasn't very good and wasn't working and that's like brutal but um yeah but being on stage you can just lose yourself in the story um yeah man And it really just feels like the story's happening to you, man.
27:21Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. No, but I respect that because I, to even get to that point, every night I would have to like really, really, really work hard. And sometimes I just couldn't do it. But then I guess, you know, that's the difference between a world-class actor and some mug that's giving it a go. Do you know what I mean? What I find though more recently is that the more and more I do, I approach it like this is that it is clearly happening to me as James, as myself. There is no kind of character And yeah maybe I dress it up with a funny walk And like an accent and all that kind of stuff And a haircut But it is just me And that might be a limiting factor sometimes But in terms of like Watching somebody live a story It's much easier when it's you And really there is just you You can't really become another person No Even if you really think you've gone there It's still just you It's just you thinking you've gone there So ultimately it is just you Just embrace that do you do you um are you quite method like what's it no no just story it's story story story yeah it's just like and i think that that's why like it can be as electric watching a good storyteller in the pub as it is watching an oscar winning performance or a or a like olivier winning stage performance or whatever like somebody the the skill of storytelling i think is transferable and it's like watching watching somebody do what you do doing comedy doing stand-up as well it's the art of like I know it's about getting a gag as well but it is often about telling a story yeah explaining an idea and a through line with a beginning middle and an end that may or may not be surprising and have a twist or whatever yeah and that sort of I feel like that's all transferable skills which is why I guess you found yourself as an actor as well yes but um based on what you've just said about what you do every night versus me, I suspect I've just discovered I was fairly substandard.
29:11Romesh Ranganathan:Now, but listen, it's been reviewed, the run's closed, it had Sheridan Smith, so they got a good actor. You guys were up in Glasgow when I was there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sheridan showed up at our premiere. We closed the Glasgow Film Festival. Oh, that's right. She said she was good at that. Now, we talked about you being able to, you can cry on command still, Kenny. I'm not going to ask you to do it. Don't worry, don't worry. I can't. I wouldn't do it. Let me just pretty much get that out of the way we're not gonna ask you to do that but is it also true that you can vomit on command i have not on command but i have been able on request sort of when the moment comes be ready to give it full chunder and um and i think i've done it in three films i think it's only made it into one oh that's quite annoying yeah i know so two didn't make the edit yeah no they were just like hurt now that's all right we don't really need that thank you for going there james we didn't need you to nobody asked you to wasn't in the script the director actually maybe advised you not to but you did film it um thanks for that it's not in the film no but um filth that i did with john baird um irvin welsh's amazing novel that john adapted so brilliantly um there was a bit where i had to puke in that and i was like i just i feel wretched most of the time on this job so I feel quite primed do you have to fuel up?
30:34yeah yeah yeah I drank a lot of water and I think I might have ate Monster Munch just before it as well and it was also it was the only day that Ruth my agent came to visit set and I remember I was in the car and I'm like necking I think I did a line of coke and then I do I drank like a double shot of vodka or something like that sounds like my tour prep I know right this is this is my warm up before going on stage and I wonder the story is happening to you every night and then I opened the door and I go and it all came out again and I went cut cut check the gate because I think we were making that on film still and I looked up to my left and my agent Ruth had just like gone
31:18Romesh Ranganathan:what's up boy yeah but Ruth having that same agent throughout the whole thing I'm obviously is a friend now as well as an agent but does it feel like you've gone to that you've had that journey together then i guess yeah absolutely right from before you're doing anything i mean i've been lucky i've had ruth and i've had and theresa my agent in america also came on really early of maybe only a few years after ruth but yeah having that relationship and not every actor gets afforded that same luxury or i don't know that doesn't happen all the time i've been really lucky and she's been an amazing sort of you know a bit of a parental figure for me has that been like a good way how like a an aid in navigating your way through because i'm sure you've had it like as you get more high profile and as you get not i don't want to say famous but you get more respected and established and and all of that you then get people that come into your lives and pay you attention because of what you are rather than who you are yeah just having somebody that's people that are with you from the very beginning help you kind of navigate those waters a bit more effectively yeah and i think also that is definitely the the true fact of it but um true facts uh that's a true fact everybody and then the but also her just personally as well is very grounded and and and not quite as grounding and brutal as the wee boy calling me a whip it's hard on as i walk to do my first take as an actor ever at the age of 16.
32:47But at times, at times she's been, she's been, I wouldn't say brutal, but she's been unflinchingly honest with me.
32:53Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. But that's useful, isn't it? Yeah. Hard to hear, but useful. Yeah. I remember when I did my, I was trying to make it, started to try and get paid work as a standup. And I did my first paid weekend and my dad came, my dad's not along with us, but we came to watch. And at the end of it, I thought, I thought I'd had a great gig. And he said, you were nowhere near as funny as the last guy. Is he from Wales? He is Italian. Oh, got it.
33:21Romesh Ranganathan:Ranganathan. I can't even fucking do that. Anyway, the point is, he was like, you are nowhere near as funny as the last guy. If you want to do this for a living, first start aiming at him and then try and get better. But you know what? I know. I mean, I'll live, though. After the first night of the weekend, I went home gutted. Oh, man. But you do need to hear that, rather than you smashed it or whatever. Yeah, no, and I do, there are people in my life that I love dearly, but I know they're so sort of, they're, they want to support me so, so much. But you need to hear the hard facts sometimes as well.
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33:57And then it's, no, it was good. It was good. Do you want to be better? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Romesh Ranganathan!
34:09Romesh Ranganathan:Romesh Ranganathan is back on tour. Yes, he is, my brother. Ramesh Ranganathan will change your life. On sale now. I'm so, so happy. You're still allowed to joke, aren't you? Now, obviously, you've been in multiple X-Men films. Yeah, five. Five. Technically, four really, but five as well. What was that like, sort of stepping into that world? And did you have any kind of... Oh, by the way, you're excellent. But did you have any trepidation or hesitation about stepping into that? It's a different arena, I guess, right? Yeah, it was an interesting time. There wasn't a lot of superhero movies kicking about.
34:53Spider-Man for Sony and all that had been around with Tobey Maguire. Anyway, so it felt like we were not one of the 500 superhero movies that year. It felt like, oh, we're kind of going for this again. Okay. I was a big fan of the X-Men movies. I was a big fan of the X-Men cartoon as a kid. I was a big fan of Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek and of Patrick playing Professor X. So it all kind of felt like this could be good. I didn't really fancy playing Professor X as Patrick had to play him because I was like, Patrick's done it. But when I got the script, it was Jane Goldman's script, it was slightly revisionist.
35:33It was like showing him being an absolute, being a bit more of a walloper basically. And sort of not wise and a bit selfish a bit self-centered and a bit up himself and thinking he's a bit this and a bit that I thought this is good I can definitely work with that plus I hadn't worked for about eight months because my kid had just been born and I took time off we both did and we weren't skinned we had didn't have much in the bank and we didn't have any debt but I was like I need your work but I don't want to go away and it was filming at Pinewood which is 40 minutes from my front door and so there was only there was only I think 50 pages of the script at the time available to read and it was alright but I could tell it was it had good bones and my agent was like what do you think and I was like it's genius I'm doing it I didn't even tell her that it was only half a script and yeah we started we started prepping it and started camera testing and chemistry testing with other actors and all that kind of stuff and went straight in it but I really enjoyed it really loved it I think Matthew Vaughan did a really good job of giving it a different a different vibe for that first one it was quite it was quite quirky and it was a bit kitsch and it was a bit more 60s vibe and then but then we reverted we went back to what it was in the early 2000s with brian singer's version of it for the next movie but it was still really good and i actually got for that second film days of future past i got like a proper acting workout yeah in a big old superhero movie um so no i loved it great people the the whole like ensemble casting you know that could go really wrong if you don't get a bunch of people that get on but like some beautiful people and getting to spend basically 10 years with those people where every other summer would go to like x-men camp and like hang about and and because nobody's the one lead everybody shares it the responsibility the weight the expectation and the workload so you've all got a couple of days off here and a couple of days off there and you get to hang out and party and all that it was lovely but you are still getting
37:30Romesh Ranganathan:like reactionary I mean doing comic films it puts you into a different you know the level of reaction from fans and stuff like that is pretty you know a 30 second teaser can lead to an online riot can't it? Do you know what I mean? So did that play on your mind? Or did that have any effect on your experience of doing it at all? I mean I was 30 by the time that I started doing it so I felt quite I felt quite secure in myself as a performer and I also by that point had taken some knocks and been you know received bad reviews and being in stuff that was alright and weirdly being in something that's alright is kind of just as bad as being in something that's rotten and that had happened and I'm still here and I can still do it and I was prepared for that but also as well I just don't look at the DMs I don't look at the messages I don't look at the comments I will look at the reviews sometimes Why do you look at reviews?
38:27Because I'm an idiot, I think.
38:31Romesh Ranganathan:No, but I mean, is there a constructive reason to look at reviews, do you think? No. Right. You genuinely don't think that? No, I don't think so. Not for an actor anyway. I don't think it helps. For the same reason, I don't necessarily think, and you know, the Tom Cruise's of this world, who I totally respect, by the way, might disagree with me. And he might not. I just suspect he might. Can we send this to Tom, please? Yeah, yeah. We send all of these to Tom. even if he has even if he has did he fast forward through the whole thing he's like no great work guys great that was a really bad Tom Cruise impression I can't do Tom I can't do Tom Cruise I don't have a Tom Cruise impression I don't have one it's weird to not have one but still go for one though which is sort of what you did there this is the daring that allows me to do what I do he's just such a fearless performer just willing to fail and what was I talking about some shite Oh yeah, for the same reason I don't think it's particularly useful or good to look at your own playback or look at the monitor when you've seen a take or something like that and the director's moving on and you want to see your playback.
39:35I don't think it's particularly helpful because you become a bit, you start to play your own notes. And the thing that somebody else, you might see something in you that you're like, oh, I look terrible there, I shouldn't turn that way. Or like, I don't know, maybe that was the thing that everybody else around you is going like, oh my God, that broke my heart. and then what you end up doing is going like that instead you know what I mean we're not yeah we're not it's a weird thing looking at yourself reviews can kind of be a wee bit of that I've received incredible reviews that are the best in the world I've received the best reviews in the world
40:13Romesh Ranganathan:that's one of the things everyone says about you you get the best reviews in the world I've received some of the best reviews of my career that I in my world and I'm like delighted and oh my god this is incredible and I cannot tell you one review that I had for X-Men that was good and I can tell you the one review from X-Men that I remember that was bad and I had tons we had tons that film it did so good the first one what was it called First Class did great scored great on all the things on all the websites people saying incredible stuff about it and only thing I can remember is that one bad review I know and it nuts yeah I know was there anything in it particularly that stuck whoa whoa whoa god yeah I don't know if he's ready to no I am I am and this is the weird thing as well and it's it's not even about your acting so this is what this is why it's dangerous to read reviews it isn't it isn't the work that upsets you it's the sort of there's a cattiness that's um that is inherently part of of critiquing where it's like they need to stand out or something like anyway and it got to you because it was personal.
41:20And it was like, it actually wasn't that bad a review of the film. It wasn't even that bad a review of my performance, but it described me as the chubby McAvoy. And that, that's all I remember
41:30Romesh Ranganathan:of any review for X-Men. It's so funny you say that because when I, when I first did Edinburgh, when I did the Edinburgh Festival for the first time, the chubby McAvoy. I got, I got a one star review.
41:48Romesh Ranganathan:do you want another bag yeah i i remember getting a i think i got a one star review and at that time i was talking about like in that show i was talking about the difficulties having with parenthood and i remember this quote it said ramish rang and athin is the only comedian in Edinburgh trying to emulate the child catch from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
42:11Children. What were you doing? What were you doing? I was just talking. Were you walking a bit going?
42:20Romesh Ranganathan:I mean, to be fair, were you black dates? I did it for 15 minutes, but there was other stuff as well. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't just the lollipop stuff. I came on in the van. Do you know what I mean?
42:37Romesh Ranganathan:I'm trying to emulate I think you thought I'd nailed it but that was 2013 do you know what I mean the other one I've got a bit bad reviews is I did a play when I was oh god it was bad I was about 16 or 17 right and I did this play called The Real of the Hanged Man with a really amazing theatre company run by Muriel Romanis up in Scotland called Stellar Quines. Quine, it was an old Gaelic or Scottish dialect word for women. And so stellar women. And it was this play about Scottish people who had left Scotland and gone to Canada. And a lot of Scottish and Irish people got put up into the north of the country and given farmland.
43:24But the north of the country is also frozen tundra for nine months of the year. I think it was Abitibi. That was the name of the place. And so there was all these communities and apparently according to this play a lot of incest and a lot of just kind of backwardsy sort of family behavior um it was written in quebecois um and for those you don't know it's like french canadian and then we'd taken this play re-translated it back over into old scots and i was playing a character who when i was about 16 or 17 who i think in a play that was written maybe more laterally would have been researched and maybe only written by somebody who had personal experience of it but somebody who had some sort of issue it was in some sort of learning issue or some sort of neurodivergent issue in some way right it would be a very specific thing that you knew what it was and was explored I think well today whatever whenever this was written in like the 50s or something like that yeah it was just like oh he's a he's a wee bit of a funny boy isn't he do you know what I mean and it was so ultimately so bad and listen the director Muriel and maybe other people in the cast might have a different story on this it was ultimately so bad that um you said to me during rehearsals why don't you try playing a mute i was like what cut all my lines and uh and she was like just for this rehearsal just to just to see what it's like to try and communicate without words and it weirdly was like music to my ears because i was like all these lines feel so right right like i don't know it feels not like a well-written part and um and so i i played it mute for this one thing and then I lobbied really hard to cut all these lines from the play and we did we cut all these lines from the play and I got not mentioned in a single review and that's fine I was totally I was getting away with it it was fine and then there was one review and it was in the stage and I actually used to get the stage delivered and it referenced my performance but it got my name wrong and it called me the it said something nice about me and referenced me as George Drennan who was one of the other actors in the play I know, nightmare
45:30Romesh Ranganathan:Are you careful now about kind of going for sort of blockbuster-y type stuff like X-Men and independent stuff, or do you just do whatever you feel like doing? Do whatever I feel like doing. I want to be at home if I can. I want to work close to home if I can. But if the right thing comes in that's far away, I'll consider it. And yeah, I'm happy to do big ones. I'll do big ones. I'll do your small ones. I'll do your medium ones. I'll do you anything, mate. But it's just if it's a good story. Yeah. And I love that realm. I love the big, silly realm. and I love the tiny little realm as well. It's weird.
46:01Sometimes you're on a big$200 million budget and you're like, there ain't enough time. We're up against the clock. We've got to get this before we have to wrap. And you're like, how is that the same vibe as like a two million pound independent movie on the streets of Glasgow? It's nuts. There's never enough time, never enough money. So it always kind of feels the same to me anyway.
46:18Romesh Ranganathan:Do you care about legacy or anything like that? No. No, I don't think so. No. No. No. you mean like after death kind of thing sometimes people think like you know when you get to you've done so much and you could you know I imagine you're picking and choosing what you want to do are you thinking how much are you thinking about when you come to retire or stop or I don't know if you plan to retire ever but when you stop doing it do you ever think about what your body of work will look like or do you care about that no not really I think I said this really young when I was being asked to lobby and all that kind of stuff for movies and I'd done it once with something that did end up getting Oscar nominations and I was asked to do it again a couple of years later and I was like I don't want to do this and people were talking to me about you know you've got to play the game and all that and I was like I don't know maybe you do but if everybody could strategise their way at the top then everybody would be at the top and I was like you've got to enjoy the journey as well you've got to feel true to yourself and that's important I'm going to segue in a minute get ready guys it's going to be a fucking we can give you a jingle if you want just to take you through the gear chase just as I go into the segue it's really important I think for everybody in their lives to be true to themselves to be authentic and try and keep in contact at least with your integrity but for an artist I think it's really really really important and for a performer I think it's really important which is kind of what the film California Scheming is all about.
48:01Romesh Ranganathan:Speaking of which, we've got a question from my mum, haven't we? So my mum always submits a question. And because you've mentioned California Scheming, I believe, I don't know what this question is. They just told me it was something to do. Let's have a... She doesn't normally clear her throat before doing the recording. Hi, James. How are you? Good. Romacious mum here. Congratulations. I heard you are directing a film. I don't think Romesh could do that. He's not a good communicator. How did you find from acting to directing? I'd love to know. Wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart.
48:46Bye-bye. Bye. What's your mom's name? Shanti. Shanti? Yeah. Thank you, Shanti. Thank you, Shanti. Well, listen, your son's been a pretty good communicator today. Thank you. And I think the way he lands some of his punchlines, the way he lands his punchlines, man, that's good communication. Anyway, Shanti, how do you find acting to directing? Yeah. Stressful, man. Like, yeah. I mean, acting at times is about relaxation and about being so relaxed you can just, you know, pretend you're in a story like we talked about and all that. And then directing is about like, there's 30 plates about to fall and you can only catch some of them.
49:29But you need to make sure you catch the ones that don't bring the film down as well. Oh gosh. And then it's like, you fix that and then there's a storm coming. Right, the storm's coming and you're in the middle of this maelstrom and you're having to go, Oh, there's a good bit. There's a good bit. There's a good bit. And you're getting soaked. And there's a cow flying about and there's a wicked witch. And it's just, it's that, it's just mental. really satisfying, really exciting not necessarily enjoyable, but so fulfilling
49:57Romesh Ranganathan:So let's talk about California Scheming so this is, I mean this film is right up my street so this is about the you know there's a documentary The Great Hip Hop Hoax about these guys that's Syllable and Brains who are these Scottish hip hop duo who kind of the accent is a stumbling block to them achieving success and so they decide to sort of sound like kind of West Coast. When I say West Coast, they're not sort of gangster rappers. They're kind of... And they start to basically generate a career from this kind of false identity. One of the things that sometimes they get labelled with is like they were fake rappers.
50:37And I think some people then make their link to like Milli Vanilli or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like these guys could do it. They were brilliant. And they're really good. Yeah. And they got laughed out the room whenever they rapped in their own Scottish accents down here in front of label execs and stuff like that. So they took the note, they went, well, what you want is American, we'll give you the exact same tracks, the exact same music, but with American accents. But they went a step further and they basically started method acting as skater boys from like California and 24-7, even when they were on their own.
51:09And it worked and they got a record deal from one of the labels that actually laughed them out of the room previously with the same tracks. The only difference is we're no longer from Dundee. We're now American. And they worked with that label for about two and a half years. They supported Eminem, D12. They went on MTV tons of times. They cut six albums without ever releasing a single one. They ran up quite a bill at that label. And then they ultimately never even got caught. They did get caught, but the reason they got caught is because the strain on the pair of them living this lie. And I don't know if you know any method actors but it usually seems like quite a traumatic experience for the actor as well as everybody fucking around them as well when you're around a method actor I do like some method actors and I think the the stress of doing that and what we were talking about earlier sacrificing your identity, your authenticity, your integrity by the way all things that are not only important for a human being to kind of look themselves in the mirror at the end of the day but all things that are the lifeblood of hip-hop yeah yeah like if you aren't true to the streets that made you yeah you ain't hip-hop you ain't part of that culture anymore and they were in their own dundonian or brothian way they were true to the streets that made them and true to that culture because of that and they were told nah you can't you're not allowed and so they went fine let's eject the whole the DNA of the culture and do it we need to do it to get there and do you know what like sacrifice whatever you want to get what you want in life you just need to know that at some point you're going to have to look yourself in the mirror and there'll be a price to pay and you might not have enough money in your pocket to pay it and these guys it felt like they didn't yeah
52:57Romesh Ranganathan:I mean it's an amazing story how did you get involved in in directing it I just lucky bastard actor of some success over the last 30 years says to these agents I think I'd like to direct some stuff and they go like we'll rustle up some scripts it was like I'm very aware that not a lot of first time directors have it that nicely that easy but what was interesting was that everything that was coming at me having played four or five whole Scottish people in my entire career everything that was coming at me was sort of working class poverty porn set in Scotland and I was like oh really okay this is kind of weird I want to tell I want to make movies that are exciting fun interesting and dynamic and adventurous and movies rather than just like gritty drama film yeah do you know what I mean and I love gritty drama films don't get me wrong I do think all parts of society need to have some gritty drama films about them but not it's not like we're making a film about Scotland oh great here's your five options that are all gritty drama and I don't know why I go gritty drama but I do gritty drama we might get a gritty bafta and um and we'll play some festivals we'll get to grifty bafta and um you you i didn't want to do that and i do genuinely love some of those those films but um i wanted to make a movie and you know my favorite films are like back to the future the goonies stand by me's things like that you know i wanted to make something that felt more narratively compelling and driving anyway this story came about and it was all of that and it was also underpinned by a kind of social injustice and a kind of in real world sort of stakes and outcomes as well where somebody nearly pays the ultimate price in it as well so I thought let's get everything and then about 8 weeks out because it's a bit of friendship, the stakes of the friendship and that was the thing that excited me working on the script for a couple of years the stakes of the friendship, the friendship, the love story with Mary and we're creating this whole new character who's a an exec at the label and she gets sucked in and like all interesting about that and about eight weeks before we start shooting we're going to prep what we call prep and we've finally got premises and we've got collaborators and we've got like heads of department and like camera crews coming in and like wow this is getting real and I remember this one day just going like this is a music film this is a film of music as well and I was like this is a musical I was like oh man oh wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute and luckily I caught myself just in time I mean I always knew it was but I don't think I'd really truly sort of grasped the kind of prep that I would need to put into that as well because I was all about the characters really and getting the narrative arc of the relationship clear and also making it tight because I didn't want to make a two hour film ideally I wanted it to be 90 minutes and it's about 100 now but yeah and it was interesting for me because I was like I'm really unprepared for this Yeah, but that's good.
55:57Romesh Ranganathan:That's part of the reason you wanted to do it, right? Yeah, yeah, totally. Did you shit yourself at any point? I think you wouldn't be able to do that. Yeah, yeah, I did. And I mean, I used to get anxiety dreams, actors' anxiety dreams, where you're about to go on stage. Generally what happens in my anxiety dream is, as I dream, is that, I don't know, I think I'm going on stage to do some check-off or Uncle Vanya or something like that. And somebody comes and taps you on the shoulder and goes like, hey, we've changed the play. And I go, oh, fuck, what are we doing? and they go we're doing Pippin and I'm like the musical and they're like yeah and then what happens is there's this big slide and I'm standing at the top of the slide dressed for Uncle Vanya playing Astrov I think and there's a dead man's drop slide you know the ones that go vertical and then they level out they used to be at Blackpool Pleasure Beach and and I have to go flying down that and I'm dressed as Astrov and the music starts and I have to sing everyone has a season everything has its time and then I'm like I don't know the rest of the fucking words.
56:56And then I wake up in a cold sweat. Holy shit. Yeah. So I had that dream a lot. And then it started to transform as a director. And I was never right. And everybody knew better. And everybody. Because this is the thing about directors. Nine times out of ten. Even though I've been acting for 30 years. Nine times out of ten a director is the least experienced person at their job on that set. Than anybody else. Right. And quite often if you're a young first time director as well. You're the least experienced person full stop. Yeah. I was the least experienced person at my job on that set probably, when everybody else had done 50 gigs in their respective jobs.
57:32And you're like, why are they listening to me? And ultimately you've got to go like, we're not, I'm not here for some of these technical brilliance, not really. You're here for something that's like direct communication between the artist and the audience. And that's from the writer to the audience, director to the audience, actor to the audience, musicians, everybody DP to the audience. but the one person that can like make sure you're all pulling in the same direction and give literal direction is is the director and um and i'm pretty good at like being scared and feeling the fear and just going nah fuck it it's cool why not why not me why you why you do you know what i mean yeah if it's if that guy can do it why not me um so yeah i was terrified a few times and also you really question like is anybody gonna like this yeah and i mean i was lucky enough to be able to make the film I wanted to make so if people don't like it, I can't make any arguments
58:26Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, that's a shame, isn't it? That's unfortunate because what would be quite good is to just line it with a little bit of, the studio took it away from what your initial vision was just sort of insulate yourself a little bit, do you know what I mean? I know, but the thing is though, you don't get you don't really get let off the hook with that, there's still a sort of general disdain for a director that let that happen Right, okay, yeah that's a shame, but two amazing lead performances in this and it's actually pretty as acting jobs go pretty challenging and what I mean and also what a joy though as well yeah I mean it's amazing it's an amazing thing and then I mean it has a little bit of a quality of it reminds it not reminds me there's certain moments where it felt a little bit it's actually quite anxiety inducing because there's a number of moments there's a number of moments in the film where they are like sink or swim we either like really go and just do this or we bottle it you know and one of them you know they take turns in convincing the other one to take the next step away yeah that scene would you know where they go and like they front up to D12 that that oh god that was actually with Eminem as well by the way in real life but we just thought I made the decision like if I can have some actors play D12 yeah if I've got an actor playing Eminem it's just people are going to be like that's not Eminem no he's just too still famous and all that anyway Anyway, they did that.
59:52They did that for real. That is 100 % what they did. We made up the dialogue because we don't know what they said and they can't really remember what they said. But they absolutely did that.
1:00:04Romesh Ranganathan:That is one of the most kind of butthole clenching moments of the film, I think. Oh, brilliant, man. I always wonder, because I think the dialogue in that bit is actually pretty funny. It's really funny. There's a whole bit about kissing a donkey. Are you really kissing a donkey? Yeah, I know. And I'm always like, why is that not getting a bigger laugh? And I think it is because the audience are kind of going like, ah, this is horrible. Yeah, because it's that, I don't know, you just think, it's just so, it made me feel anxious. Oh, good, good. That's what I hope, man. And are you into hip hop?
1:00:40Romesh Ranganathan:Is the music side of it something you're into? Or is it more the story that you kind of drew? Listen, what I've noticed pushing this film is that everybody's talking to me about music. and I'm like no this is weird I've likened it to the Scottish referendum on independence that's what I thought what is like the Scottish referendum for independence let me take you back to the Scottish referendum right everybody everybody was into music and everybody was voting yes yeah right and then the day after we went oh wow not everybody likes music and not everybody voted yes that's how I feel about music it's like I like it when someone else is playing it I will never choose to put music on.
1:01:19You'll never choose to put music on? No, it's weird, isn't it? And is there a kind of Scottish referendum silent majority kicking about that are the same as me?
1:01:26Romesh Ranganathan:I think you might be right. Yeah? I do think so. Because people look at you like you've got two heads when you say it, so does it make everybody go like, I can't reveal that I'm voting yes or that I don't listen to music? I think part of the issue is that the music is a bit of conversational lube. And also, like, when you... Oh, yes. Do you know what I mean? I'm so glad you made me spit on camera. Do you know what I mean? And then also, I think, like, as you get older, your cultural touchpoint can often be music. And so it's often the way that you prove to people that you're still hip or with it.
1:02:07Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what I mean? I mean, using those words definitely proves I'm not. I just go for intense conversation. Just unbreaking eye contact. Eyeballs at all times. having blinked in 30 minutes and you're sweating I'm into hip hop my kids are really into hip hop but they're really into like they're into different hip hop to what I'm into cloud trapping or not yeah yeah yeah and so then every now and again you know just because I've got a radio show I'll listen to new shit and then I'll say to them oh man did you that new yacht is pretty good isn't it and then my son I'll just go what are you doing man
1:02:41Romesh Ranganathan:it's like you know when you it's that thing of like thinking it's going to make you cooler but what it actually does it makes that artist less cool by referencing them to your kid do you know oh my god yeah you sort of go yeah i don't even try i don't even try with my kid i'm just like educate me yeah why is this good yeah i'll say to my son like apparently central c is about to drop a new thing and go yeah why do you care what what's it got to do with you i think we need a podcast just about your relationship with your son that this that music's not for you bro oh man it sounds brutal oh yeah it's brutal but it's honest you know that's what you need you need honest feedback now we've got a game for you hit me this is called misquoted it's quite a controversial item just on the last episode of this somebody said do me a favour and drop misquoted fam
1:03:34Romesh Ranganathan:it's misquoted so how it works is I'm going to give you five quotes some of them you've said some of them you haven't oh these are the oh right okay These are things that you have said or not. And some of them we've like, am I allowed to say this? Some of them we might have, I guess, Frankenstein a bit. Right, right, right. Okay. So here's your first one. Good luck. By the way, there are no stakes. Okay, great. Remember what this means. Absolutely nothing. Absolutely fuck all. I don't know what it is about posh actors. I do know that I can do what I can do better than 90 % of them. I think I did say that.
1:04:09Romesh Ranganathan:You did say that? I think I can tell you that I said it for a laugh. But yeah. Yeah. So you said it to The Times in 2016. Yeah. And was this just like you've just got a bit of an issue with barriers to entry for actors? Is that what it is? Or were you just sort of taking the piss? No, not necessarily. I think I'd gone through my whole serious point and made a big, huge thing about it not be... I'm not... I think posh actors are great. I feel that they're entitled to be great. I think everybody should be entitled to be great. And not everybody is entitled. Entitlement isn't a bad thing. Just everybody should feel entitled to do what they want.
1:04:48But then for a cheap laugh, I just said that at the end. I like it.
1:04:52Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, well done. Thank you very much. You're one for one. Here's your second one. I knew I had to make my guy filthier. Not cool filthy, but actually like he hasn't changed his knickers in two weeks. I think I said that. I don't remember seeing it, but it just sounds like something I'd say. Was that on filth? That was 2016. it was no you're talking about atomic blonde oh yeah he was dirty he was dirty he's kind of a guy you could smell before he came in I remember being at a wedding and a friend of mine was just like there was people queuing up to have a bit and we were like what is it what is it I mean good looking guy and all that but like what is it what is it there's other good looking guys that are single what is it what is it and somebody went we know what it is and we're like it just smells of sex smells of sex yeah I know and we were like I'd never noticed and he was like that's because you don't have a vagina so there you go God I'd fucking love to smell of sex do you know what I mean I'd love to smell of sex for just a day and see what happens just to see what it feels like smell of sex be single for a day smell of sex and go to your wedding yeah and there's no consequences or anything yeah yeah yeah it's all good it's just like everybody's like cool with it and they've signed like a thing and there's no there's no sort of long term repercussions there's no trauma yeah there's no like sort of and there's no STD Yeah, and it's not about me regretting life choices and feeling like I've settled or anything like that.
1:06:12Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, here's your next one. Well done, you two for two. Thank you. I'm sick to the back teeth of playing Englishman. Is that it? That's the end of the quote. I don't think I said that. You didn't say it. I didn't say that. You didn't say it. Oh, great. We sort of venomed up. I've been a professional Englishman for almost 20 years, which he did say. Yeah, I've done a lot of English people. Yeah, but you're cool with that, right? Yeah, man. It's a great thing. I hope we all get to play English people yeah in this room the great joy of acting is you get to imagine what it's like to walk in someone else's shoes so getting to imagine what it's like to be someone from somewhere else is part of it it's difficult what rules there are isn't it about accents do you know what I mean like you playing an Englishman fine me playing an Asian Englishman not fine but I'd love you to play me I'd love you to play me in something no but what is are there accents of white people that I'm not allowed to do?
1:07:08Romesh Ranganathan:I don't think so. I don't know. But then I was sort of thinking like, I can't, I'm not allowed, I'm allowed to do some accents that you're not, but you're not allowed to do any accents that I'm not. Does that make sense? Yeah. But there are some accents that I'm not allowed to do. I always think if somebody's doing, just from my point of view, which is the most important one. Yeah, absolutely. Sorry. And can we just remember that? We put it on a caption. We just have it running as a scrolling thing underneath. If anybody's doing my accent I've got no problem with it Until it becomes reductive Until it's like You're Sweet Scottish thing Or like Oh it's cabers and Totty scones and Tartan Then it pisses you off If somebody's doing my accent To illustrate a story about a Scottish Go for it Wherever you're from But yeah Don't reduce the people Celebrate the people I can't put my finger on why But I know I'll be playing wizards In my 70s I think I did say that You said something like that Did I say something about my eyebrows?
1:08:09Yes you did So I'm letting my eyebrows grow at the moment Just because I want to play Gandalf I'm letting my eyebrows grow Because I'm playing a jakey Which is a Scottish word for a junkie And I just thought he's not going to trim his eyebrows But I do think that when I'm maybe in my 60s Or something like that These will be some serious caterpillars And they might be my passport to playing Gandalf the Grey
1:08:31Romesh Ranganathan:Do you ever trim them? Yeah, I've trimmed them quite a lot, but they really go... They're difficult to trim eyebrows, I think. I don't want to get into this into too much detail. We've got more stuff to talk about, but I do find it difficult. You said they're going to be my fucking passport to playing wizards in my 70s. I definitely said that. Yeah. Okay. Very well done. Thank you very much. You've got one more. Okay, hit me. Here I am caught up thinking about directing my first movie, and someone still remembers me as Mr. Tumnus. That just tickles me. I don't think I said that you did say that to Sharp Magazine in 2024 you were discussing playing different characters and how they occupy a place in people's lives you recounted how you were walking around with a music supervisor discussing the film and a woman shouted I loved you in Narnia what Mr.
1:09:19Thumbness what Thumbness I remember that I was walking around Fensbury Park with Ian Cook my amazing music supervisor and consultant and just extraordinary guy and again you're kind of like deep in conversation about the complexities of the music and then you just get a level of like alright Tumnus yay
1:09:46Romesh Ranganathan:oh it's horrible oh it's not horrible it's lovely it is lovely it is lovely I mean I remember running the London because I host The Weekest Link I remember running the London Marathon and people were just shouting, bang!
1:10:02Romesh Ranganathan:So productive. Don't see yourself in playing. Okay, James, listen, you've been a fantastic guest and before we get into our final question of the show, I do want to say, California Scheming, it's a great film. Thank you, man. Cheers. It's such a great story. I mean, it's right on my, the whole, you know, the film is great. It's really well put together. The story's unbelievable. Those guys are great in the film. So it's, look, it's a recommend from all of us. Thank you very much. Cheers, man. Now, this is a question. You can duck this. The team get really annoyed. You can't duck it. You can duck it.
1:10:35Romesh Ranganathan:You can duck it. You can duck it. No one's ducked it. Loads of people have ducked it. Well, we've not let anyone duck it. Okay, fine. James, you can't duck this. No, so all it is is the team, they're desperate to have like a viral moment or for somebody that we've had that's done a lot of interviews to say something exclusive or something you've never said publicly before. Do you have anything at all? oh god this I mean I'm not even ducking it I'm just like do you know it's like this is the question the problem with this question is it's the exact same as like any funny stories from set and you go yep can't remember a fucking one now though that's why I've written a prompt I'm going in let's hear the prompt we're all you and I are almost the same age 46 I'll be 47 next month okay so I'm 48 today congratulations thanks but you are aging a lot better than I am don't know about that man you look fucking great I don't want to be I don't want to sound like but you look great Do you know when your phone sort of unprompted takes it upon itself to show you pictures of yourself six, seven, eight years ago and you're like thank you you fucking prick yeah thank you iPhone I fucking hate you do you know what I mean because you're just going like whoa I thought I was doing alright and you're like I've got more hair I'm like I'm not great I'm like look at the elasticity I look like I can fuck I'm like oh my god that's a guy that smells like sex that guy reeks of taint
1:12:05Romesh Ranganathan:that's a great name that's a great name for a tour reeks of taint
1:12:13Romesh Ranganathan:what's your attitude towards age are you worried about how you look as you get older relatively not I think just in a normal way in the way that everybody does as an actor I think I'm doing okay I think I'm not a bad looking guy I don't think I get I don't think I get rolls Because of like Oh he's good looking And all that So Kind of aging and stuff And going a bit baldy At the back and all that It kind of feels a bit like I'm allowed to Yeah yeah It's part of the thing So you don't do anything To try and halt it No You're not thinking about Getting your blephs done What's that? Or tear trough No Do you know those guys I don't know There's a lot of people Just starting to look a bit weird Yeah And that is the thing It's like is like you're not you aren't looking younger you're just looking weirder Catherine Ryan actually told me that I could she didn't say I could do with it but just to show me she photoshopped me with my tear troughs all filled in what did it do?
1:13:04it looked pretty good man really? and I think do what you want to do I'm not criticising anybody that does what they want to do absolutely do what you want to do but as an actor I don't want to mess with it you're hamstringing yourself aren't you? yeah a little bit I don't want to mess with it too much but no I mean I've got hair extensions in right now that's to make me just look like I've got longer hair not necessarily younger
1:13:21Romesh Ranganathan:or better can you tell us anything about this frankie ball project that you're working on it is called meantime it is set just after the referendum um in glasgow uh it's about a guy that wakes up um finding out that his best friend has been killed and the cops think it was him that did it he's an absolute junkie and he tries and solves the crime himself and then you realize that you start to kind of unpick some other mysteries as well as the murder about why he is the way he is as it goes forward and it's like frankie's view on scotland the world and everything at the same time he's a deep guy yeah man he's like the way his brain works is unbelievable it's amazing he is amazing and i mean genuinely um no matter what we end up turning in as this adaptation of a of something he's written um like genuinely a kind of annoy the guy is around revere the guy a bit which there's a lot of pressure on me and John Baird who made who directed Filth are doing this yeah okay this sounds great please give it up for James McAvoy everybody that was great thank you guys thank you that was lovely great episode thank you so much for watching this episode of the Romesh Ranganathan show I've been told that some of you are watching this enjoying it wallowing in it but you still haven't subscribed that's mad behaviour you're going to miss episodes very silly so follow and subscribe to the Romesh Ranganathan show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:14:50Romesh Ranganathan:We drop new episodes every Monday and Thursday. On Monday, I'm here with amazing guests talking about their career, what they're up to, having a laugh with them. And then on Thursdays, I'm joined by my mum, widely regarded as the audience's favourite Ranganathan. And we answer your questions, your stories and your family dilemmas. So I'll see you on Thursday when I'm back here with my mum, Shandy. Send your questions and stories to podcast at rangaby.com. Voice note or text on 07731 623 355. We genuinely love hearing from you and there's a good chance you'll hear yourself on the show. See you next time.
1:15:24Oh, shut up, Romesh.
From the publisher
How did James McAvoy become one of the most versatile actors in Hollywood?
Actor and director James McAvoy joins Romesh Ranganathan for a very special episode talking about acting, accents and the difference from Hollywood to home.
James talks about accidentally getting into acting, why his philosophy is always “story first” and how he approaches building characters. Plus his skill at mastering accents, training as a pastry chef, bad reviews and being a part of the X‑Men family.
We also discuss James' new film and his directorial debut, California Scheming.
And as always, a question from Shanthi.
A Ranga Bee Production in partnership with Platform.
00:00 Intro
00:20 James joke and the stereotype of podcasts
04:15 James and Rom discuss Jordan Peterson
07:32 A gift for James
09:07 A moment for some Monster Munch
10:22 Early beginnings and getting into acting
18:20 Training as a pastry chef & Bake Off
20:12 Accents, agents and acting
29:28 Crying and vomiting on request
31:20 James and his agent Ruth
32:56 Romesh’s dad’s brutal honesty
34:24 The X-Men Films
38:18 James and Romesh on bad reviews
45:30 Future work and legacy
48:01 A question from Shanthi
49:72 California Scheming
01:03:19 Misquoted
01:10:28 On getting older
01:13:22 Meantime and Frankie Boyle
01:14:24 Outro
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