Josh Widdicombe on Why Podcasts Help Comedians & Leaving London For Devon

7:05Romesh Ranganathan:everything else you do

7:06Josh Widdicombe:what am I ranking it on what I'm good at or what I enjoy what you enjoy this sounds like a kind of disingenuous body swerve of an answer yeah but you know how people say whatever the one I'm doing at the time yeah sure for me it's whatever one I'm not doing at the time

7:27Romesh Ranganathan:I relate to that so much

7:30Josh Widdicombe:you know like how Andy Burnham is the best leader the Labour Party could have because they can't have him.

7:42Josh Widdicombe:And the moment he becomes the leader, people are like, what are we doing? What a load of shit. That's what, so whatever I'm doing, I'm thinking, do you know what? I should be doing more TV. And then I'm on TV going, well, this is the past, isn't it? And then I'm touring and I'm like, why am I slogging around the country? What am I trying to prove to myself? Yeah, I'm making myself funnier for my wife.

8:06Romesh Ranganathan:She's going to love that toast bit. But apart from that, why am I doing this? Now, we've got a gift for you. Oh, wow. Wow. Now, full disclosure, we give a gift to every guest. But this one. What did you give Acast? We gave it. Okay, that didn't go well. That didn't go. That's actually, you've actually managed to quite early on hit a nerve. Right. Okay. Sorry. It was a weird situation where we thought it'd be funny to give him some bells and it made him fucking furious.

8:37Josh Widdicombe:Oh, right. Yeah. Like joke furious or furious furious.

8:40Romesh Ranganathan:Difficult to know. It's really difficult to know. Is this a bit? Do I push it? Or is he actually annoyed? Well, that's Acaster's life, isn't it? I definitely think he was annoyed with you.

8:49Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, he wasn't a huge fan. Anyway. Because you left early.

8:53Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. He's brought that up three times with me since. Do you know what's really good? That is something that Ben has been worrying about. That's exactly the confirmation that we need for him not to sleep tonight. So thank you. You've brought your own gift for us. Sorry. That is good. It's good. Well, look, I don't want to hear from him as well.

9:15Josh Widdicombe:So three times is something else.

9:18Romesh Ranganathan:Specifically to talk about that. Two cups. Two cups. Are we going to share them with you? No, no, no. This is for you to take home. I'm pretty excited about your reactions Oh wow Mr Bloppy

9:29Josh Widdicombe:Are they official merch? They look old on the bottom Don't they? Oh that I don't hate it

9:36Romesh Ranganathan:You don't hate it Well there you go In fact I like it That's better than James' reaction

9:39Josh Widdicombe:Yeah I love those

9:40Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah Yeah they are

9:42Josh Widdicombe:1992 BBC merch

9:43Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah What do you think? I love them What will you do with them? Like what I mean is I know I'm not going to like Winko for them or something No I'm not saying that Nobody thought that. I wasn't even... And listen, I know you know my comedy shtick, but even I wasn't angling for that. Okay. What I mean is, those, would they... I don't think Rose isn't letting them in the cup.

10:13Josh Widdicombe:They're not going to go into your circulation, are they? She doesn't like... I like a quirky mug. Yeah. Like you with your glasses. I like a quirky mug. And so I, but Rose likes, she doesn't want a, you know, I bought an old mug commemorating Wimpy, the burger joint off eBay. She doesn't like that that's gone into circulation. She went onto eBay to get a Wimpy mug. No, not specifically. But, you know, all those roads lead to one place, really, on eBay, don't they?

10:51Romesh Ranganathan:yeah so what will you do with it i mean you could i mean i'm not putting it now a lot of people say that they um they like the gift and then we often find it in the toilet no i'll take that okay all

11:00Josh Widdicombe:right i wouldn't leave it in the toilet because i'd know you'd find it yeah well i'd say i'd say you've got it if you're not going to take it at least put it in the bin outside yeah i know how many what's the percentage of people that have actually taken the gifts do we think 50 50 good quiz for the end of the year staff do though isn't it which celebrities took the uh we are really

11:22Romesh Ranganathan:if this podcast goes the way i hope it will yeah we'll be able to afford a staff do but currently

11:28Josh Widdicombe:it's not on the cards i think it is do you think so well this is a bad thing okay this is bad i i presumed this was going well all right and then i when you say this you mean this not this specific episode.

11:44Romesh Ranganathan:Right. You mean the podcast in general? Yeah. Yeah. The Romesh Ranganathan show you're talking about? Oh, sorry. Yeah. No, I'm asking. I didn't have you talking about...

11:54Josh Widdicombe:But I didn't have you talking about podcasts in general. I know it's written behind your fucking head, but this is wild. The ego. Sorry. And then, because I had a new podcast come out in January, I don't normally check the podcast charts, but for a month, I was avidly checking the podcast charts. You're doing really well. Oh, thanks. Right, thank you. Yeah. I said that to our joint agent and she said, oh, Ramesh, we're gonna check that. No, I don't. No, but I've stopped checking now.

12:20Romesh Ranganathan:Have you? Well done. I actually think -

12:22Josh Widdicombe:I do a month, I'd say.

12:23Romesh Ranganathan:I actually think that's a real moment of development, I think, to stop checking. Well, we dropped out the top 10. Do you - You just thought, why you go, can't take this? Fuck charts. Fuck charts.

12:42Josh Widdicombe:how many reviews have i got that's what it's actually about have you checked uh do you check seating plans on tour no i think you'd be fucking insane a lot of people do i know some people post them on instagram yeah that's and they go six seats left in row q yeah what are you doing how much do you want 40 of 30 pounds times six do you know what i mean like and also to pump anyway it doesn't matter no yeah sorry um i don't take seating plans i go more because i know these things would affect me so more extreme you go to the venues how's it going i know i go extreme the other way right i don't find out until i turn up to the venue how it's sold oh that's smart i think that's good and then i play the gig blindfolded so i never know

13:44Romesh Ranganathan:they decide the tour manager goes oh it's josh i'm really sorry it's blindfold night

13:48Josh Widdicombe:it's it's it's a blindfold one today i'm really just a tip when you're doing your don't bother looking up look directly at the stools don't bother looking at the balconies because you're wasting your your neck on that just so you know the curtains are a permanent thing yeah yeah yeah um so i don't find out until i go there that's good but i do find out by dint of getting an email from my pr saying um would you be up for doing hull local radio and then like okay yeah

14:20Romesh Ranganathan:whole circled in my diary is a bad night yeah that's what i do i assume that if they say if they go can you push this one then it's in but that's the only indication i ever get there yeah So you don't check it either? No. There's no point. I just don't, I don't think, I've never checked it, because I did, I have done in the past. I've never checked it and been pleasantly surprised. Or maybe I have, but then you're still like, I don't know, I just think it leads to, it's actually. I can't be pleasantly surprised, because I,

14:50Josh Widdicombe:unless it's sold out, I would consider myself a complete failure. Yeah, no, I agree, I agree. And I won't blame, you know, some people like blame the promoter of a theater yeah i i think all of this rests at my door for

15:04Romesh Ranganathan:not being the psychology of blaming anything apart from yourself and i just i cannot relate to that at all no like even if there was an issue at the bar i think it's because it was something to do with me the bar staff was so angry about my comedy and having to put me on at the venue that they're refusing people having to drink through it so there's bigger cues because i'm not funny enough to experience sober. There's drug dealers around the venue because people need anything to just take them away from them and scrutinise this one-dimensional shit that this man's delivering. Oh, tell us about how you're brown and your eyes a bit wonky again.

15:41Romesh Ranganathan:Please, give me a line. Anyway, so...

15:46Josh Widdicombe:Do you remember when we used to play... I won't name the club. Yeah. But there was a comedy club that was considered one of the good ones. The guy that ran it told me that on Friday and Saturday nights, he'd go and rub Pritz stick over the cistern of the toilet and the shelf above it, because so many people were doing coke at the gig. And you're like, this is meant to be one of the good ones.

16:08Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, God. And then he'd go afterwards with a little spatula, scrape it all up.

16:16Romesh Ranganathan:And have himself a little promoter party, just lamenting that the line-up hasn't sold out yet again. Oh, God, this one's cut with Pritz. Oh, God, it's bleak, isn't it? Now, how is... You've moved recently. We're in Devon. You're in Devon. I actually, as a mate of you... I'm allowed to officially say we're friends, aren't we? I know we haven't...

16:38Josh Widdicombe:You haven't said it as many times as you said on the Acastro episode. What did I say? You said you were friends so many times. I said to James that we were friends. Did I? I don't remember saying it once. I reckon it'd be worth listening back and getting a tally.

16:51Romesh Ranganathan:I don't remember saying it until... Because actually, I would say... I mean, you and I are closer than James and I are. So I need to say it however many times I need to top that. So we're friends, aren't we? Yeah, we are. I consider you a good friend. I consider you a good friend, actually. And so when you moved to Devon, I was actually really happy because I thought it was a really good move for you. It was a good move for me, yeah. So you were just trying to get out. Was it push or pull? Were you pulled to Devon or pushed out of London? I think we were pushed out of London. I think we couldn't stand it anymore.

17:24Josh Widdicombe:You didn't recognise the city anymore, did you?

17:32Romesh Ranganathan:That's what you kept saying.

17:33Josh Widdicombe:If Sadiq leaves, I might come back.

17:36Romesh Ranganathan:Give me back my city!

17:43Josh Widdicombe:and then i drove for eight hours and i was still in the bloody eula zone but that's you know thank you greta mayor greta thunberg

18:03Josh Widdicombe:um but so we it was just all too much yeah it's you're in constant flight or fight yeah and generally i don't deal very well with those situations and so we'd have struggled to move somewhere we didn't know anyone right so because a lot of people they'll move to like like you know those kind of uh pick your words carefully when i'm sitting with you faceless satellite towns. Right, yeah.

18:32Romesh Ranganathan:I don't know why that's got any relevance to me. No, it's not. I live in Crawley.

18:36Josh Widdicombe:Exactly.

18:40Josh Widdicombe:But people who just pick... It's got faces. At least you've got a connection there. Sure. Yeah. Because you've got your mum there. Right, right, right, yeah. Yeah, and you've got a complicated but loving relationship with her.

18:54Romesh Ranganathan:Profitable. Profitable and anxiety ridden, yeah. Exactly, yeah. That's fair to say.

18:59Josh Widdicombe:But so we knew people in Exeter. Yeah. And it's really nice. And so we just moved there because we couldn't. The thought of turning up to the school gates, trying to make friends because you've got no friends is horrific.

19:18Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. So did how far it was out of London bother you at all?

19:24Josh Widdicombe:Not as much as it bothers everyone I talk to about it. everyone can't believe that I'm so but I this feels like I just say this 10 times a day it's 2 hours 15 on the train

19:41Josh Widdicombe:what is good about it but also that train just to be clear I had a nightmare on the train this morning go on okay so I I did I had to get 7.52 to get in right because I had a Zoom before this that I was planning on doing from your offices. Yeah, we're all busy. Yeah, we're all busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, but no one as much as you. Fucking Laurence Olivier getting a couple of podcasts before treading the boards.

20:15Josh Widdicombe:Oh, God. Anyway, go on. You learning the lines for the Scottish play at the same time as well. So we, I had to get the 752. This sounds, there was just no taxis. So I was like, I'm gonna have to get the bus. I'm gonna miss the 752. So I get on the bus, the bus is getting to Exit St. David's at 757. Great station by the way. It's a classic station, it's a good station. I'm on the bus, I think, well I have to change my train ticket to the next one. 80 quid extra. then we pull in at 7.50. I'm like, I could make this. Peg it with my suitcase all the way up the stairs, all the way across, run onto the train, get onto the train.

21:05Josh Widdicombe:I've made it. I've paid 80 quid to change the ticket to a different train, though.

21:16Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, unfortunate. But you're doing all right, aren't you? I'm doing great. Yeah. I don't I'm slightly wary of pretending that we're not making really good money doing what we do, is that bad?

21:29Romesh Ranganathan:Wary of pretending that you're not? Yeah. Well it's difficult isn't it, like I guess doing stand up is you know being disingenuous in a stand up about what your life experiences are is tricky but anybody who listens to Parenting Hell will know you're doing pretty well You're not masking it much I don't know if that's sarcastic or not

21:50Josh Widdicombe:I don't know either. No, I'm just wary of going, oh, yeah, God, and so. Oh, I know, I know. Yeah. I get it, I get it. Yeah, it's a difficult line to walk. I heard about a comedian who was doing the O2 and had a routine about how difficult it was to get a mortgage. Do you know, when you said that, I thought,

22:10Romesh Ranganathan:please don't let me quote something I said. You're like, come on, mate. Now, people will know this. Well, might not, but you're living in Noel Edmonds' old house. Yes. How's that? So he's three back.

22:27Josh Widdicombe:He's like, sorry, that sounds like... Three owners back. Three owners back. We didn't buy directly from Noel. No, no, no, no. No. But I'd say within 30 seconds of the estate agent opening the front door, she had said, you're never going to guess who used to live there. Noel Edmonds. I was like... Well, I'm never going to guess if you say it straight away. Well, also, it's an impossible game. Like what? Just Ray just going, no. It wasn't like stars in their eyes. Not stars in their eyes. It was what it was called through the keyhole. I wasn't like, can we find that? Yeah, there are no clues here.

23:03Josh Widdicombe:No. So he lived in it. And then someone else lived in it. Then another one. And then us.

23:07Romesh Ranganathan:And then they made a big thing. Not a big thing. It got picked up, didn't it? And then he, didn't he comment on a post or something? He commented on one of my Instagrams.

23:15Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. Which I chucked a like, but I thought I don't think we need to get involved in some kind of public chat about this. No. It was a pleasant, jokey thing. What did he say? He said something about how he'd left something under a floorboard or something. Did he say what it was? Like, I've left a treasure chest or something. Right, right, right. I was going to get it, yeah.

23:33Romesh Ranganathan:But you weren't tempted to look?

23:36Josh Widdicombe:What, look under the floorboards? No, I wasn't, actually. I wonder if it'd be evidence if there is a body. No, I don't. I'm trying to distance myself from... Noel Edmonds. And you've given me Mr.

23:48Romesh Ranganathan:Blobby mugs.

23:54Romesh Ranganathan:Sorry about that. That's all right. Did you watch his New Zealand documentary? No, I saw the relevant clips that we've all seen. I've watched it. He's a quirk, isn't he? I've watched every minute of it. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good watch. Did you like him? Did I like him?

24:08Josh Widdicombe:Yeah.

24:09Romesh Ranganathan:When he was like in his palm? No, no, no, no, on that documentary. Yeah, I thought it was like, he was passionate about setting this thing up, in this town in New Zealand. And like he's got some unusual interests and hobbies and he likes things a certain way. Yeah. And so all of that's quite quirky. But I thought he sort of came across pretty well. Here's a question for you. Go on.

24:31Josh Widdicombe:Which may be the wrong thing to ask in a TV production office. Yeah. How long have we got left? Is that enough? Doesn't feel it. But I'm happy if you are. I'm happy to call it. No. How many times have you been asked in the last year whether you've got anything you'd like to... any business you'd like to do up? Oh, my God.

25:01Romesh Ranganathan:I've been looking. I've got nothing. I know. Who would have thought this would be the new thing?

25:08Josh Widdicombe:It's so... You can't get... You can't even... You haven't even taken the video bit onto the Zoom before they've asked whether you'd like to do up a pub or whether you'd like to, you know, refurbish a squash court. Or like, it's just... You play paddle. Do you want to set up a paddle club? I don't play paddle, but it's like...

25:30Romesh Ranganathan:I mean, what I'm slightly nervous of is us taking the piss out of it. I know. We'll be here. Me and you will be sitting in a vegan cafe. Channel 4, Josh Squash. Josh attempts to resurface it himself. There's no reason to. He can afford to get someone else to do it. It's not a good sequence. Why are you... Sorry. Why are you doing the work? This feels mad. Josh decided to research shale.

26:03Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, that's a new thing, isn't it? It really is. Yeah, I think... And there's really good ones. Yeah, there's great ones. But that's the case with everything that's... Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I remember once being in a meeting about, this is a while ago, and they were talking about sort of the demise of panel shows. Yeah. And then they started talking about the success of Taskmaster. Yeah. And then somebody in the meeting said, that's what you should try and aim for, like try and come up with the next Taskmaster. I go, thank God I've come to this meeting.

26:36Romesh Ranganathan:Honestly, is that what you think? We should try and come up with a new Taskmaster.

26:41Josh Widdicombe:That's in your wheelhouse. That sort of thing you do.

26:47Josh Widdicombe:What we thought would be like, if we could do Traitors meets Taskmaster.

26:51Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah, yeah.

26:52Josh Widdicombe:And maybe the sort of dramatic, I don't know, Breaking Bad element. But here's an idea. You're refurbing the Traitor's Castle yourself.

27:04Romesh Ranganathan:Today's episode is fine as Romesh a loom. Trying to... Trying to thrash together a rug. Oh, God. It could be us, though.

27:14Josh Widdicombe:Of course, because there's ones that make total sense. Like, John Richardson's got a local pub. He's had a pub in his garden. That's real, isn't it? That's totally real. Yeah. It makes total sense. But me suddenly deciding that I'm going to reopen HMV.

27:30Romesh Ranganathan:Actually, that's quite a knock. I would say there's a lot of inertia there. If I was picking a project for you to go for. Now, we've got a question from my mum for you, Josh. I don't know what this question is.

27:43Josh Widdicombe:Hi, Josh. This is Romesh's mum. He's got to retake.

27:49Romesh Ranganathan:Sorry, just can we go back to the beginning? Mum, if you're watching this, clear your throat before you start recording these, please. Does she do it on her own or is Ben there? Ben's there with a gun. Okay.

28:06Josh Widdicombe:Hi, Josh. This is Romesh's mum. How are you?

28:10Romesh Ranganathan:I met you and your dad in parents' evening.

28:18Romesh Ranganathan:Could you please tell Ramesh I love him? And I've actually always been proud of him. Goodbye.

28:32Josh Widdicombe:I met you and your dad in parents' evening. Congratulations. I heard you bought a beautiful house in Cornwall. Devon. Wish you all the best. Since you moved to your new home, did you get any new hobbies? Love to know. Have a wonderful day, Josh. Take care. Bye. Is this because she wants to pitch a show in which I... I'm sorry, no. It's the same conversation we've just been saying. Would you like to... Did I get any new hobbies? I don't think that's a bad question. Not as bad as you seem to think it is.

29:13Romesh Ranganathan:I don't think it's bad. It's just the clearing of the throat. I'm reeling from that, to be honest with you. But anyway, it's a good question. Any new hobbies, Josh?

29:22Josh Widdicombe:I have started a hobby. Go on. I've got back into photography.

29:27Romesh Ranganathan:Really?

29:28Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, but it's just for me. You've seen a boy's port by Brooklyn.

29:32Romesh Ranganathan:I only thought you were going to move into that area. Smart.

29:36Josh Widdicombe:No, I bought a camera and I take photographs on tour.

29:40Romesh Ranganathan:Is that weird? Of what? It's not weird at all. No, it's not weird. Of what? Either things in the theatre. Yeah.

29:48Josh Widdicombe:If I'm allowed, once the blindfold's off. Or like, oh, if I'm walking around the town, I'll take... I think that's good. Yeah, it's quite good. It's really good. It's quite a serious answer, sorry.

29:57Romesh Ranganathan:No, no. So did you... Did you say you got back into it? I did an A-level. Right. Here we go. And how good were you when you did your A-level? Well, you can put grade on it, can't you? Yeah. B. Okay, so that's good. Not bad, is it? It's good. I mean, should you be able to grade art? Well, exactly. That's what I said to them. But did you... At the end of the day, I needed the UCAS points. I agree, yes. Yeah, your personal statement's not going to get you over a C in photography. So then... But did you think you might do photography as a thing?

30:30Josh Widdicombe:No, I just kind of drifted into it, and I enjoyed it. I mean, these are the days when we'd use a bloody darkroom, you know. Oh, yeah. We'd be developing film in the darkroom. Yeah. But now, obviously, game's gone. Yeah.

30:44Romesh Ranganathan:Whatever that means. Gone the same way as London, hasn't it, Josh? It has. It's nothing but darkrooms in London. Am I right?

30:53Josh Widdicombe:I thought, I don't know if I can do that, but I hope you do.

30:55Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So do you think this is going to be your thing now?

31:01Josh Widdicombe:No. Oh. I'm still hoping comedy.

31:04Romesh Ranganathan:No, I know. But is there a possibility in the future that you'll bring out a book? No, no, no, no, no. You're not going to try and monitor,

31:12Josh Widdicombe:you're not going to capitalise on this at all. No, because what I'm going to try and do is, I quite like the idea of having a hobby. Not my cup of coffee book.

31:22Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, there we go. Coffee table book. Coffee table book, yeah. Anyway, go on. Re-edit. I interrupted you with an absolute shit there. Anyway, go on. You could say redo it for the edit. They'll keep the original in. These people are fucking pricks. I've heard the clip they're using of your mum.

31:39Josh Widdicombe:So let's not.

31:40Romesh Ranganathan:Should we get her to clear her throat? No. That'd be an extra 45 seconds. Let's just send that.

31:50Josh Widdicombe:There's a clearance issue on that clip, but it's not. That's a TV joke. It's a good joke for people interested in the legalities of TV. Can we fair deal mum's throat? Anyway, go on. Really niche. It's a really niche banter. The 3 % of people that listen to this who work in TV are going, this is the best bit. They're going to fucking love it. But I just do regret those Zooms we had with Josh and Ramesh about starting a Sri Lankan coffee house.

32:21Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. It's not there, by the way. No. It's just that I've got no ideas for one. No.

32:30Josh Widdicombe:Okay, so you're not gonna monetize it. I feel - No, because I think your hobby should be, I heard something and I was like, I'll cling on to that. Where your hobby should be something you're not good at or you're bad at, or it's just, because the moment you get, you think, oh, I could do something with this. Then it becomes serious. Like with comedy.

32:48Romesh Ranganathan:I mean, comedy is sort of slightly ruin it by doing it, don't you? Yeah, slightly. Like you grow up really loving comedy. Yeah, and then you never watch it now. No, it's very difficult to. No, I don't. Yeah, it's tricky. So you don't want to do that to photography?

33:02Josh Widdicombe:No, I wouldn't at all. I just want to enjoy doing that to myself. How supportive is Rose of you taking up a hobby? Well, it's all in my own. I wouldn't go, you know, it's a difference between that and going to play golf. Because if you're going to play golf, it's like, so I'll see you in five hours. I know. This is just like...

33:23Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, no, I get it. But on a Sunday, No, you're not going on popping out to get some shots. No, I've seen some great graffiti down by the dock. Got very excited by some shadowing.

33:39Josh Widdicombe:Just down by the park. You just don't get light like this normally, so I've got to capitalise. The mist coming up off that rugby field.

33:48Romesh Ranganathan:Why is Daddy not at dinner? It's the golden hour. You know what he likes to do. I uh yeah because I when I not this is a hobby but when I trained when I was training for the marathon yeah Lisa was Lisa the same with running right so Lisa was very supportive yeah and I thought I thought she was fully supportive until I actually ran the marathon and when I crossed the finish line I phoned her and I said um I finished and she said great if you ever do another marathon and we're getting divorced. And you did? No, that was the second one. All right. Fucking Eldridge. Listen, I'm a gutsy guy, but not that gutsy.

34:29Josh Widdicombe:Well, it is. I've done the same with running, though, because I enjoy running. I've got into that. But people are like, do you want to do a marathon? I'm like, the moment you do that, it's a pressure.

34:39Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Yeah, and also you get into this, because I was doing it and I was doing stuff with the runner app, and they were helping me out. And even though they encourage recreational running and it's not about putting targets on yourself, as soon as you do that, you do inevitably start to put a target on yourself. And then you've got something to fail at.

35:01Josh Widdicombe:Totally.

35:02Romesh Ranganathan:Which is just like, I don't want another thing to have a hang up about. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And also working every day and then on a Sunday saying to Lisa, I'm doing my long run today. It's mad. I'll see you this afternoon. One day I gave up mid-run. Because you felt bad about your family? No. I was exhausted don't be ridiculous I thought finally the penny had dropped no she had to rescue me in the woods oh my god how did she rescue someone in the woods well I sort of had to I crawled to kind of the edge and then she brought the car as close as she could what was he doing there really good really good

35:46Romesh Ranganathan:what distances are you running oh short But when you say short.

35:50Josh Widdicombe:5 to 7k.

35:52Romesh Ranganathan:That's great. But you don't need a gel for that.

35:53Josh Widdicombe:But my tour manager's so fast. Yeah. So he's 59. Yeah. But he runs 5k in 18 minutes. You don't run with him, do you? Yeah, but he kind of eases off for me. Yeah. And then I'll go for a run with him in the morning on tour. And then we'll go for breakfast. And then I'll go back to my room and, you know, inevitably record a podcast. Yes. and we'll meet at like two and I'll say, what have you done? He'll go, I went to the gym and then I went for a swim and then I went for another run because obviously it's not even touching the sides when he goes for a run with you.

36:29Romesh Ranganathan:The guy I was running the marathon with said to me, you look like you need some hydration and he ran back to the last drink station which was half a mile back caught me up and gave me a drink. Is there a problem with your hydration levels?

36:44Josh Widdicombe:No, no, but yeah, maybe. I don't know. You know Tom Brady has seven litres of water a day. What? Yeah.

36:52Romesh Ranganathan:What? Even, what, just a normal day he'll have seven litres of water? Yeah, that's one of his things. And how much is he pissing? Well, he hasn't covered that in interviews, but I just imagine seven litres. But, I mean, you must be going all the time. Yeah. No, but what I mean, I guess the question I'm asking is... It's quite a stop start, isn't it, American football? But if you're having, if you're regularly having seven litres, you might get to point your body's like quite good at just you know yeah yeah of course yeah whereas like if i had how much how many liters sorry let's get some real shit here how many liters of water drinking a day probably 1.5 1.5 john probably two and a half three whoa good on you that's good for it as well really good will yeah probably like 1.5 as well 1.5 okay And Ben, by the looks of you, you just swallow whatever saliva pops into your mouth.

37:48Romesh Ranganathan:Do you count coffee and stuff like that? Yeah.

37:50Josh Widdicombe:Well, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What do you mean? Doesn't coffee make you more thirsty? Does it? Yeah, I think it does. Well, that's good then, isn't it?

38:04Josh Widdicombe:So you're counting seawater? Because Ben has a cup of the sea each morning.

38:12Romesh Ranganathan:really sets me up for the day yeah how much do you reckon you're having yeah about not a lot half a litre half a litre of water of actual just water on its own yeah and apart from that coffee yeah how many cups of coffee

38:30Josh Widdicombe:maybe too many I guess

38:32Romesh Ranganathan:maybe too many three or four

38:34Josh Widdicombe:four or five that's six I tell you all that isn't three yeah Yeah, that's definitely, there's no way new three. I've quit caffeine completely. Really? Why? Because I was getting jittery and then I checked out. I was only drinking tea and I thought, well, there's no caffeine really in tea. That's a big misconception. It's a big misconception. It's a big old misconception.

38:57Romesh Ranganathan:A lot of tea drinkers out there thinking, being all cocky, thinking they're caffeine free. Yeah. How much, is it more, it's not more than coffee. It's the same as an espresso.

39:05Josh Widdicombe:No, it isn't. In a cup of tea. It's a chat GPT. No pun intended. which is a special app I use for all my T-based questions. No problem delivered, I'd say.

39:16Romesh Ranganathan:Do you not go on ChatGPT for your hot drinks questions? I actually use that Gemini. I've got it to a point where it sort of knows me. Have you? But every now and again I'll go, don't get worried about this again. Does it? Yeah. Oh, that's good. Every query takes a 15th of a teaspoon of water, did you know that? Every what? Every query into ChatGPT. Yeah, it takes...

39:38Josh Widdicombe:I know. It takes a load of water. And Ben counts that towards his daily intake. Do you mean coffees and chat GBT queries?

39:49Romesh Ranganathan:I reckon I'm probably in about eight or nine litres.

39:55Romesh Ranganathan:Have we found an answer? It's trickier than you think.

40:00Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, there's a lot of different variations here. Yeah, but black tea is tea, isn't it? Yeah. So black tea is 40 to 70. And what's coffee? a brewed coffee there or like an instant coffee who's having instant my mum is she

40:15Romesh Ranganathan:yeah good on her I like nostalgia I like things being worse just because of memories I like enjoying shitter stuff just because that's what I've always done

40:28Josh Widdicombe:espresso has more caffeine per volume tea has less per cup

40:33Romesh Ranganathan:sorry what's going on am I no but what but but you're having

40:41Josh Widdicombe:I think we can put that to bed.

40:43Romesh Ranganathan:Sorry, say that again. Let's see if we can unpack this.

40:46Josh Widdicombe:Espresso has more caffeine per volume.

40:48Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, but you're not having a big old mug of espresso, are you? Tea has less per cup. What the fuck is going on? It sounds like too contradictory. Could you do it without the word per? Yeah. And can you change your tone a little bit as well? I don't think that's helping either. Bottom line. It gives you a bottom line. I'd love you to start with the bottom line, if I'm being honest with you. Is there a bit of subtitled flannel that's indecipherable? Don't read that bit. If you're choosing for a caffeine hit, yeah, espresso wins. Right.

41:20Josh Widdicombe:If you're drinking volume over time, tea can add up. Just... What is that just not... Numeric comment.

41:29Romesh Ranganathan:What's going on? I don't understand why it's fucking... We're debating like it's philosophy. It's a fucking number. There's two numbers. Which is bigger? Or the same? Sorry, there's more. In many ways. In which? Yeah, here we go. It'd be like, the tea is like the waves crashing on the shore. But the coffee can be a lighthouse. Make of that what you will. I think essentially what we've learned is Josh was right the first time. I don't know,

41:57Josh Widdicombe:because it says espresso single shot, 30 millilitres, 60 to 70 milligrams of caffeine. Okay.

42:08Josh Widdicombe:I'm not sure if you drink the same amount of espresso. Yes, obviously. Obviously. When I arrived here and they made me tea, I didn't specify.

42:23Romesh Ranganathan:I'm beginning to think that you don't understand alcohol units.

42:27Josh Widdicombe:Do you know what happened to me the other day? I went into... This was pre-caffeine being quit. I was always big comedy. Yeah. We've mentioned it already. I said to the guy, it was on the menu, it was a pot of tea.

42:41Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah.

42:41Josh Widdicombe:I just wanted a cup of tea. I said, can I have a pot of tea? And he was a young, cool guy. And he looked at me and he said, yeah, do you want a cup with it? I was like, what? Are young people like that divorced from how tea works?

42:58Romesh Ranganathan:No, but in Shoreditch, I bet they're just spouting it directly down their throats.

43:01Josh Widdicombe:Like the tiger that came to tea.

43:06Josh Widdicombe:I just couldn't believe it had happened. Do I? Do you want a cup? With my pot of tea?

43:16Romesh Ranganathan:Anyway. That's horrible. Yeah. That is horrible. Was that the Always Be Comedy pub? Yeah. Yeah. I had a 3D printed veggie burger there. Did you? Yeah. What do you mean? Sorry. What?

43:26Josh Widdicombe:Why did I say did you? I didn't know what you meant.

43:31Josh Widdicombe:So is that a complaint you're making? It does taste like it's been 3D printed.

43:35Romesh Ranganathan:In defence of you, I did say it with a tone that required a Digi really. So it's not your fault. But what was it? I don't understand what's happened. The burger was printed. What? And you'd ordered a burger? Yeah. And then you'd just hear... Sorry. What the fuck's... They buy them in printed. They're printed. 3D printed. What? You don't get printed food now. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't know.

43:57Josh Widdicombe:That's the problem.

43:58Romesh Ranganathan:I've got to take you through...

43:59Josh Widdicombe:I've got to take you through about nine scientific discoveries now for you to be honest. I still don't believe in 3D printers. I don't understand what it is. What if you don't believe in them? Well, how does it just make a thing?

44:10Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what? I thought it was Thursday that we did the mum episodes.

44:18Romesh Ranganathan:I just don't understand what it's been made out of. Has it got everything in it? Yeah. It's like, I mean, obviously, you're not using the same ingredients as you would do to make like a figurine but you know they've got the things in and then it prints what yeah do you

44:35Josh Widdicombe:know what happened to me there what the first gig i had back after covid i got there and you go to the bottom of the stairs and then you have to go up and there was a hand thing at the bottom of the stairs. It was the mustard.

45:05Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, my God. That's good shit. That is good shit. A bit of fun, isn't it? Now, let's talk about your new podcast. Oh, yeah. Which, Lisa Ranganathan is a huge fan.

45:14Josh Widdicombe:Oh, good on her.

45:15Romesh Ranganathan:Really huge fan of. So just for anybody that doesn't know, you know, give us a skinny, please. Give us a skinny. Well, it was battling you in the charts for a month.

45:27Josh Widdicombe:But now it's dropped away to between 10 and 20, so I'm not looking. So it's basically, it's called Museum of Pop, Joshua Dickens Museum of Pop Culture, because as we've established, some people, they really like their name being in the title and that being used as much as possible within it. And they, basically, I really like podcasts where you, they do the long form stories over a few episodes. Yeah. So like, Rest is History or Uncanny is the one about ghosts or like Real Dictators is quite a bleak one about dictators.

45:59Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know one of the ones I like is where somebody turns up to a town and nobody really knows their backstory?

46:04Josh Widdicombe:Oh, yeah. You know that? It's probably my favourite. Serial, I enjoyed that. I didn't like the one after it where it was just about a bloke who mended clocks for six episodes. Did you just say, fuck yeah. S-Town. S-Town.

46:16Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. What was the one, Sweet Bobby? Yeah. That was a good one, wasn't it?

46:21Josh Widdicombe:So I like all that, right? And I thought there's got to be one about all the pop culture things. Yeah. Because they're the Netflix documentaries I watch all about those kind of things. And then there just wasn't one. Yeah. So I thought I'd make it, really.

46:36Romesh Ranganathan:Now, I saw this quote, what you just said, in an interview. Yeah, I reel it off too much. No, no, no, you don't. The reason I mention it is, or highlight it, is that is the perfect, to me, that's the perfect reason to do something. You wanted something. It didn't exist. So you've created it. Totally, yeah, yeah. That's like invention, right? Exactly. That's like an invention. So congratulations.

46:58Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. And then I thought, what if I refurb the podcast studio with some of my comedy pals and we make a TV show about it?

47:11Romesh Ranganathan:Josh is on the internet looking at microphones.

47:20Josh Widdicombe:I want to. One, two.

47:24Romesh Ranganathan:What muff shall I get?

47:35Josh Widdicombe:so so we created it and it's like four part stories of the great things in popular culture that just don't get spoken about because they're considered a bit too lowbrow i think yeah yeah so we've got your friend of mine the rise and fall of mr blobby we've got um did david hasselhoff bring down the Berlin Wall. We've got Sinclair C5, Clive Sinclair, Studio 54, the New York club, all these kinds of things. Just like long, but funny tellings of these stories. And we get like proper research done. Then I turn it into a kind of, I read it. And then I kind of tell my friends, I have a comedian friend who joins me

48:16Romesh Ranganathan:for the four episodes. um the this is that bit about because the thing is it's most people they because everybody's trying to do podcasts now right yeah not trying to you can if you want to try if you want to do a podcast it happens right but um but most people try and go for the line of least resistance which is one that requires no kind of work at all so when i saw that you do when i heard that you're doing i think you'd mentioned to me i'm doing another podcast that made sense yeah yeah but then when when I saw what it was, I thought, well, that sounds like - That's a mental decision. Well, it requires effort.

48:51Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, but I've already got one that doesn't require effort. Yeah. And if I want to go and express myself, I'll go on this morning. Of course.

49:03Romesh Ranganathan:That's the thing that people forget is that you do have an outlet for your high art side, don't you?

49:11Josh Widdicombe:If I want to riff, and I want to just things flying

49:15Romesh Ranganathan:and, like, just, like, enter some kind of, you know... I read a quote from you saying that this morning is the only time you really feel in the pocket. Yeah, totally. In flow state. Flow state, totally.

49:31Josh Widdicombe:But only on Fridays, because you need Dermot and Alison. Yeah, the circumstances have to be perfect, don't they? Yeah, exactly, yeah. Full moon. Something to promote. Something to promote, crucially. Look, the truth of the matter is, I wanted to do this morning, so I back-engineered it to a new podcast.

49:55Romesh Ranganathan:What makes you want to do this? I just wanted to get back onto this morning. And it turns out, unless you've got something to promote, or you're a relationship expert, you cannot fucking get on that. I can't cook. They don't want to do photography.

50:12Josh Widdicombe:They've just moved studios. and I suggested I could do a show where me, Dermot and Alison rebuild the new studio.

50:22Romesh Ranganathan:They said it's just, it's actually quite boring. I'd love one where they didn't jazz it up at all and it just shows kind of the real nitty gritty of it. Do you know what I mean? It just really tests people's patience. So anyway, is it a ball like then doing it?

50:36Josh Widdicombe:No, because I really, really enjoy it. and so I'd say it's a bit like I'm really interested in these things I read books about these things all the time, I read books about musicians all the time I watch all the documentaries I'm interested in it and I think you get to a point when you go, I'm just now going to do the things that I really want to do and if I can do this in my own time, from my house that's a lovely thing to get to do and And, you know, we've done long enough that you go, the great thing about podcasts, it gives you the opportunity to do these things. You're not trying to fucking get this away because it probably wouldn't work as a TV show or whatever.

51:25Josh Widdicombe:Do you know what I mean?

51:25Romesh Ranganathan:Well, I mean, if you would allow me to be earnest just for a little bit, I do think that, you know, we talked about podcasts, you know, we're talking about why podcasts have got to where they are, why they're so much fun. But I think the thing about this podcast and you, knowing you as I do, is you doing that podcast, it makes perfect sense because that's where your interests are. Yeah. And you sort of think, and I think as a mate as well, we're friends.

51:50Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, we're friends. We're friends.

51:51Romesh Ranganathan:But I think as a mate, seeing you get to this point where you're going, I'm going to do something because I'm passionate about it. You know, one, it's more fun for you to do. But two, that's when people do their best stuff. Well, exactly. Do you know what I mean? And so it's sort of, I feel like that is you showing what you are. In the same way that me doing the hip hop thing, people know if people have followed me or are really into what I do, then they know inevitably that I'm into hip hop. Same thing with you. If people are fans of Josh, you know, they will know that this is a sort of area of interest.

52:23Romesh Ranganathan:So it just, it is really like, it's actually really, really the most organic thing you could have done. Totally. And like, I really enjoy it from that.

52:32Josh Widdicombe:and you hope that the enthusiasm comes across. Do you know what I mean? And that's the kind of, that's the like, you know, that's what all the best things are, right? It's people, I think more than other mediums, people can absolutely smell if you don't care about something on a podcast.

52:51Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. I think it's a great, it's a really good thing. And also, I think that even if you're not into all of that stuff, like on Netflix, they do these documentaries about people that are super into stuff. There was one about guys, the cubists. Rubik's Cubes. Rubik's Cubes. And it was just like all of the guys that were really into that. Even though I don't really give a shiny shit about that, watching people who are passionate about that is gripping whether you're into it or not.

53:18Josh Widdicombe:There's an incredible documentary. I think it's on Netflix. I haven't seen it in a few years, but it was a guy who wrote for Letterman. Yeah. Have any of you seen this? he became obsessed with, in the, maybe it was the 50s or something, or at some point, loads of companies had loads of money and they put on musicals about their own company, written musicals for their staff, right? And this was like huge amounts of money was spent on it. And this guy became obsessed with them and he started creating, he bought all the albums and there was only a few other collectors and he was finding all these albums.

53:57Josh Widdicombe:And you're like, the documentary is brilliant because it's just a man who's really into something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I absolutely love, you're right, the energy that you get from someone who's actually into something is so, that's the best, right?

54:13Romesh Ranganathan:Well, I think when somebody's really into something and they're so passionate about something, it makes me want to really give that thing a chance. First of all, their enthusiasm is infectious. and I think watching somebody be passionate about anything is great. And I always think it's such a green flag about somebody. If they're really into something, I just think you're probably a nice person. Do you know what I mean? By the fact that you're really into, you know, there are some exceptions.

54:38Josh Widdicombe:I read a book. I got sent a book by, because I'm really into the KLF, right?

54:43Romesh Ranganathan:Yes, I fully went.

54:45Josh Widdicombe:And so I read a book about them by this guy and I kind of knew him on Instagram a bit and he'd written a book about Doctor Who and I hate Doctor Who. who and i read i didn't know that i read this well i read this book about doctor who and it was brilliant books by john higgs it's like a history of doctor who and i was like this is a great book i'm at the god i've missed so much i can just get into this now yeah and i watched it i was like no it's shit fucking shit all right doctor yeah fucking up

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56:21Romesh Ranganathan:Now, can we talk about parenting hell for a little bit, please? Yeah, I mean, if you're comfortable with that. What does that mean?

56:29Josh Widdicombe:Well, you know, it's me and Rob, isn't it? Yeah. I don't enjoy Romesh and Rob or whatever it's called.

56:38Romesh Ranganathan:Romesh and Rob take on the world. Yeah. We call it podcast hell in my house. But the thing I wanted to ask is, actually, I mean, we'll talk about Rob in a minute. The phenomenon that is Rob Beckett. Yeah, it's an interesting concept, isn't it? But the actual, I mean, I'm sure you've talked about it a lot, but parenting hell just being what it's become. Yeah. I mean, there's no way you would have known it's going to become what it's going to become. But you must have thought it will click with something because of the timing of it. So there is a voice note which we found,

57:17Josh Widdicombe:which is the first voice note I sent to Rob during lockdown. saying and i think in it i say like you know if it goes well we could carry it on like as a kind of yeah it's i know it sounds awful but it's i suppose like well it doesn't sound awful the two things that you'd associate with me which you were actually in the intro are the last leg and parenting hell yeah and both of them started off as a oh yeah as a short thing but then and i I think there's something to be said maybe for how low people's expectations. Exactly. Yeah.

57:55Josh Widdicombe:But your biggest successes are accidental. People aren't willing to commit to something if they think I'm going to do it for a long time. I couldn't bear this over a year, but I'll give him 10 episodes and then you've gone. Trick them in. Yeah. but no but i think it does mean that maybe there's less pressure on it when it starts because you're not thinking okay how does this work in the long term how am i going to fit this in how am i going to what are the finances of this in the long term blah blah blah you know all those things that a production company would you know yeah a channel or whatever would have to think about you don't really think about when you're just doing something temporarily yeah the eiffel tower is temporary Right, there you go.

58:41Josh Widdicombe:Am I saying that we are the Eiffel Tower of podcasting?

58:47Romesh Ranganathan:I mean, therein lies a lesson for all of us. Really good point. Really good point. Yeah, we'd probably, I get in the edit, would go to black and white at that point. Maybe a shot of Paris, but with Rob Beckett's head on top of the Eiffel Tower.

59:06Romesh Ranganathan:Rob Beckett, you and Rob have got, you've got a great it's a great chemistry right did you know that is that why you i mean rob said something he does say a lot more perceptive things than people give him credit i know i do think he's allowed more of that side of himself to sort of come into yeah because i think when he started i think it's fair to say he was kind of being cheeky chappy not really

59:29Josh Widdicombe:but i don't think he knew that side of him existed as much anyway so maybe he was finding it but like um yeah but yeah also you're too much more two-dimensional when you start aren't you yeah yeah um but look at you now yeah honestly you like hip-hop and you're vegan i know keep

59:45Romesh Ranganathan:pushing for that third dimension it's almost there so close the glasses is a real attempt yeah it's a real do you know what it's just an ongoing attempt at getting some sort of personality um so rob uh no i you've done things with him i've done what the week or you do all

1:00:07Josh Widdicombe:the things with people don't you but he said something right we didn't realize how different we were until we started working together yeah yeah and we're completely opposite people yeah but in terms of tastes or not in terms of comedically but in terms of he's into you know the jungle yeah uh likes youtube videos of people beating each other up youtube videos of people beating each other up that couple that were in tower and now do like reality tv yeah and i'm like you know not not into that yeah we're very different people but that's why it works right yeah yeah you're very different from him right yeah i was trying yeah i i i don't know if

1:00:50Romesh Ranganathan:this happened for you on parenting hell and i've only you know i've tried to garner this from the clips that lisa has on in the car when i get in but i feel like your relationship has evolved in the same way that my relationship with rob's has in terms of like we started you know our energies are very different but we find the same things funny yeah but then gradually as you work with somebody for over a long time sort of certain similarities start to emerge or you find common

1:01:15Josh Widdicombe:ground or whatever do you find him easy to work with i do i find him incredibly easy because he's much more straightforward than most people i'd include me or you in that yeah because we would

1:01:26Romesh Ranganathan:be too worried about offending someone he is i would actually say he is really useful weaponized you know in terms of in terms of what what i what i think is great about him is exactly what you said he just and he's not doing it out of a lack of consideration he's doing it out of a this is what I think is the best thing to happen. And this is, I don't think this is right and whatever. And he's willing to say that in a way that I've tried to get better at actually. And you fall into the trap of thinking that by not saying it, you're being nicer, but you're not actually. What you're doing is you're building up some sort of thing and then later on it will become a huge deal.

1:02:07Romesh Ranganathan:Whereas if you just say it at the time, a moment of awkwardness and it's much better going forward. Rob has learnt that before either of us I think and so in that way he's great to work with because as soon as he spots a problem he goes I think we should say something about that and then I'm like I don't know maybe we should just carry on as we are for a bit and see if it works out itself or maybe I might text Flo at the end and say I hated the whole shoot so I think that he's great for that yeah and uh i mean it also helps that he's like he's he is so he's got funny bones i mean he's just he's just as as do you actually it's just that that sort of he's just naturally got it and so then sometimes you can take that for granted when you've worked with somebody for a long time but then you sort of and i think in the same way in your podcast i always know if i throw something

1:03:04Josh Widdicombe:to rob something decent will come yeah exactly yeah it's interesting it's interesting you mention flow yeah because i was listening to the episode you did with acaster yeah and you said you talked about how you text flow who's we've got the same agent yeah flow and you talk about how you text her and then you know with your insecurities yeah i've tried to stop doing this but yeah and i realized it was like it cut deep to me because it's exactly what i do yeah and i I did think that poor fucking woman who's putting up with all these texts. It's pathetic. It really made me think, what are we doing?

1:03:49Romesh Ranganathan:I know. I agree with you. I mean, we had this conversation. And then I texted her about three days later after a bad corporate. Exactly the same. But I just imagine what it's like. You know, you sort of think you've got corporates, you've got TV records, you've got gigs and stuff like that. And about quarter past ten, her phone will start blowing up going, It didn't go quite how I hoped it would. They said I was supposed to do 12. I ended up doing 15. Why do I get disrespected in the industry? Oh, God. Did you not say that they really wanted me to do this? It's certainly not how they made me feel.

1:04:27Oh, God.

1:04:31Romesh Ranganathan:It's sad. Every person thinking they're the most important text.

1:04:36Josh Widdicombe:And she must also know when things are being announced. So she's like, all right, so the new series. So SNL UK's announcing today. And suddenly she's getting texts off, you and me. Of course we're not going to do it. Am I still relevant? Because I've seen these 10 young people in that photograph. I'm past it, aren't I? I'm a relic. What, you didn't apply for it? And you're 20 years too old for it. And if you were offered it, you would have said no. Yeah, but still you're texting about this. What the fuck is wrong with you? Can no one else have a career without you thinking your shit? Oh, God.

1:05:17Romesh Ranganathan:It's hard, isn't it? I've managed to get to, I feel like I've, I actually also had this, I don't know if you have this with Rose, but I used to have it with Lisa. And then we went all over the houses, actually, because what happened is initially I'd sort of go and do something, a gig or something like that, come back and sort of talk about it. And then I realised that, first of all, I'd left a teaching job to go and do comedy. And now to chase my dream, which Lisa had been very supportive of. And then I was coming home going, it's not going exactly how I wanted Lisa. Wake up, wake up. Could you hear about this, please?

1:05:54Romesh Ranganathan:I know, yes, I know we're making less money than when I was a teacher. Get up. I'm feeling sad. My callback didn't work. so then I was like I've got to stop doing this right because it's so inconsiderate so then I stopped doing that and then Lisa was like why do you never talk about work anymore yeah and then I was like oh okay you know I had to find something but you do find that thing of like um I've had to I've had to sort of be okay well not had to be okay I've tried to be okay with not craving validation or reassurance and I think you know it's because it is what you're doing when you do that and i know i was talking about it's a flow i said like josh and i've been chatting about this she said it is my job and i was like yeah but you you actually i think it's better for us if we don't if you don't have to have that do you know i mean it's like yeah it's

1:06:43Josh Widdicombe:not good maybe she just needs to employ someone whose pure job is reassurance like a agent fluffer it feels like you've got yeah that's that's got um ai written all over it

1:06:56Romesh Ranganathan:You are worthwhile and your comedy has many dimensions. You continue to have relevance in the industry and long may that continue.

1:07:07Romesh Ranganathan:It is weird, isn't it? It is pathetic. Now, this, by the way, what I'm about to say to you, this is not me. This has come from the team. Yeah, okay. And I know that this is a bug... I actually said to them, I suspect this is a bugbear of Josh's, but impressions of you.

1:07:25Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, I'm fine with it.

1:07:27Romesh Ranganathan:It increases the brand reliability. It is good to be... No, but you... Being... I was about to say impressionable, that's not the right thing. Mimicable. Yeah. It's actually quite handy, isn't it? Yes. Because your first DVD, you've got loads of people to do impressions of it.

1:07:43Josh Widdicombe:That was weird, wasn't it? But I don't mind it because it is... I suppose it's a stroke of luck that I've got a funny comedic voice. not like a literal silly voice. And I suppose that's lucky in a way because, you know, we've all gigged with people that are quite funny, but they're very bland. There's nothing distinctive. There's nothing distinctive. And so, yeah, it's lucky. And like, you know, you do it on Radio 2 and I'm not there. I, you know, I will hear that. That's not a warning.

1:08:22Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, it feels... I am listening. I will hear that. I will hear that. It's difficult to say that in a light way, isn't it?

1:08:33Josh Widdicombe:I don't know if you're across the radar figures, but I am listening. Yeah, individually we're carrying the auditions. But no, I'm totally fine with it. And I think it's good, isn't it? I mean, like, do you know when I did my first live at the Apollo, I got a DM from a comedian I didn't know who described me as like a young Frankie Howard.

1:09:05Romesh Ranganathan:How does it feel to now just be another Frankie Howard? Well, awful when the SNL cast announced. But the truth is, because my impression of you isn't actually good. What I mean is...

1:09:20Josh Widdicombe:No, but I think all impressions become an impression. This sounds like a... They're all an impression of the impression. You're doing an impression of an impression. Yeah. Because then if I... Because I would do... I would... If I was to quote myself... Yeah. I'd... You'd start going... Unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, you know, like... Yeah.

1:09:37Romesh Ranganathan:Toast. It's a noun and a verb. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But actually, you don't sound like that. Well, thank God for that. But I don't have a... I don't think I'm... I mean, could you... If you were to do an impression of me... I can't do any impressions.

1:09:52Josh Widdicombe:So this is... This is like... This... Is that like a kind of... My greatest strength is my greatest weakness as well. It's like I've been gifted with the most impressionable voice. But unable to. But unable... So if you were to... So I panic and it almost short circuits my brain. But when you try and do an impression. So give me a region. Scouse. So what would they say? What would they say? they're people too yeah I know I can't even like I'm panicking so it'd be like I can't do it so it'd be like alright how are you mate actually do you know that's better than I thought it was going to be it's actually alright yeah

1:10:35Romesh Ranganathan:yeah but you saw I'm like are there any that you can have a go so are there any that you feel more comfortable like Australian Australian for example goodbye like I can't do it yeah I can't and it panics What happens to your face is quite weird.

1:10:51Josh Widdicombe:So if I was to do the Ramesh Ranganathan show in Australia, the Ramesh Ranganathan show, I can't do it. I just can't do it. And it's like, and I often think it would bring quite a lot to my stand up. It's a weapon I don't have.

1:11:08Romesh Ranganathan:Right. But yet you're very successful. You're doing very well. It's a curse. Imagine if like just you announced Josh Whittacombe is back with Mimic. Could you learn it? Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

1:11:22Josh Widdicombe:I reckon you could. Do you know I once went for, I didn't go for, I got asked to, do you remember these Sky shows where they would do, they were called like Urban Myths or something? Yes, yeah, yeah. And they did the one about, they did one about Live Aid. and Flo got an email and said, would Josh be willing to do, be one of the musicians? Do you want to have a guess? No, go on, tell me. Rick Parfit from Status Cry.

1:12:02Josh Widdicombe:Oh God. And she, I said to her, 100 % I'm up for it. But you need to tell them I can only do my voice. because yeah to be honest that would have been funny though and they didn't even reply

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1:13:07Romesh Ranganathan:Let's help me back. It's time for us to play our game, Josh. Yep. It's misquoted.

1:13:16Romesh Ranganathan:It's misquoted. I've got five quotes for you. Some of them you said, some of them you didn't. Sometimes it might be similar to something. I just sort of, I don't want to lead you up the wrong. No, no. I'm aware of the format. Yeah, okay. Now, I think you'll be good at this because we're friends. It's nice playing this with a friend. Okay, here's your first one. what excites me, I'm afraid, is mundanity. Mundanity? Yeah. Yeah. What? Did you say it? Yeah. You did, yeah. Okay, that's that big.

1:13:48Josh Widdicombe:Is that the end of the quote? That's the end of the quote, yeah. What excites me is mundanity. Definitely.

1:13:52Romesh Ranganathan:Times 2025, talking about how his podcast has made him double down on what he does as a stand-up, which is minutiae.

1:13:59Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, stand by that. I think it's much more interesting than... I'd much prefer to hear your take on toast, your refreshing take on toast than i would your take on donald trump well yes but but can i the

1:14:16Romesh Ranganathan:other thing i would say and can i say this is a actually as a fan of yours i know we're friends but just to separate from that a second what what i think what i think is really why i'm such a big fan of your stand-up is you are able to take something which what i really want is a comedian to show me what's funny about something that wouldn't have occurred to me myself.

1:14:37Josh Widdicombe:Can I just say, due to the position of the mic, I just drank the water in the maddest position possible.

1:14:42Romesh Ranganathan:But that's why you're so good at...

1:14:43Josh Widdicombe:Please don't use that as a cutaway.

1:14:44Romesh Ranganathan:Can we put... Oh, my God. It's the only way I can put it up.

1:14:49Josh Widdicombe:Yeah.

1:14:50Romesh Ranganathan:It's like having a fucking velociraptor on the podcast. But now it feels like I'm a horse eating at me.

1:14:58Romesh Ranganathan:But you're really good at, like, taking a normal thing, like a really...

1:15:02Josh Widdicombe:you know that's what i enjoy the most you know sometimes there's some comedians that will go

1:15:06Romesh Ranganathan:there's a mad story or whatever yeah and that can be funny but i think what's really what's really funny is to sort of take something that seems so innocuous and turn it into a scene so

1:15:16Josh Widdicombe:what i like yeah in stand-up the most is when you see a comedian michael mcinty's the the greatest exponent of this. He'll do something and then you'll think about that every time that happens. So every time I get offered coffee after a meal in a restaurant, I think about him talking about how mad it is. It's almost like I like the idea of those writing those routines. But the truth is, you just write what you write, don't you? That quote, the truth of that is, that's me back engineering what I've done rather than going I haven't sat down and gone I'm going to focus on mundanity we all do what we do and then go okay what why have I done that I mean the

1:16:05Romesh Ranganathan:number of times I've most of my focus is on back engineering and pretending that what I've done is a decision rather than what felt like it was easy to do but that's better because no one's made

1:16:16Josh Widdicombe:anything good by sitting down and going okay what do I need to do I know yeah um okay that was very

1:16:24Romesh Ranganathan:good you were correct on this one here's your next one i've always been more of a freddie mercury than a liam gallagher no i i just can't imagine comparing myself to freddie mercury can i i i

1:16:37Josh Widdicombe:don't know if you can imagine it are you asking me that question can you imagine it i i don't think i just don't know what what i'm saying do you think it was that was that when i was justifying playing apartheid South Africa. Yeah.

1:16:53Josh Widdicombe:No, I just wouldn't have said that, would I? Do you think you'd say anything like that? Well, maybe the Freddie Mercury's the thing you've changed. Okay, and what do you think you'd swap that with? I don't think I would have said Damon Albarn because that would be too trite. So I'd have probably said... Bonehead.

1:17:13Romesh Ranganathan:No, you said Jarvis Cocker.

1:17:14Josh Widdicombe:Oh, right.

1:17:16Romesh Ranganathan:Men's Health 2025. men's house yep i don't even remember being interviewed by them but i'll stand by 2025 you were on the cover no i was on the cover of runner's world oh yeah

1:17:31Josh Widdicombe:how was that i loved it yeah it's not out yet but me and you are you know we both we're both cover stars did they make you yeah you're right yeah we had to run in the studio did you do yours in a studio outside it was fucking freezing it was so horrible so they all came to exit yeah it's about 10 of them i was like the first thing i said it was probably you know i walked in i was surprised how many people and i was like how well is this magazine doing because i heard publishing was like fucked yeah and i was like this is the biggest magazine we've heard the same thing about tv you It was brilliant.

1:18:11Josh Widdicombe:It was an incredibly fun experience. But yeah, I don't remember saying that. I don't know why I would have said it. No, I don't know. I suppose Jarvis Cock was like the nerd, right?

1:18:21Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I guess so. He was on, I did Jonathan Ross with him. Wow. What was that like? He's just like so Jarvis, I know that sounds weird, but there's no pretense. He is just that guy, right? Was he nice? Really nice. I thought it was really nice. Yeah, yeah. I was a bit... When somebody's that kind of... I feel like he's so comfortable in his own skin. I find it slightly intimidating. Yes. But it's great.

1:18:46Josh Widdicombe:Do you get that with like... When people are such a strong flavour...

1:18:51Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah.

1:18:52Josh Widdicombe:I feel a bit like, oh, I'm so boring. I know. I find that with Rich Awadie. I always think, I must be boring the fuck out of you. Do you know what?

1:19:00Romesh Ranganathan:Rich Awadie, when he came on League of Their Own, I was so he came on League of Their Own what a booking he's been on there more than once has he that is such a combo do you know what I was so worried about is that he would just deconstruct my shtick I'd say something and go oh so this is the thing where you pretend to be he doesn't do that I was really worried

1:19:21Josh Widdicombe:he's so brilliant but like I always feel like I must be boring him

1:19:25Romesh Ranganathan:I mean look I would say trust that instinct okay here's here's here's your next one you're two for two so far congratulations I'm a rubbish dancer I've never wanted to be Ed Balls. Yeah, I mean, I would have probably said that. You said it in 2016. Did I? On Lorraine. Did I? When Lorraine asked you if you'd ever do Strictly. Now, you did the Christmas special in 2024. We've discussed this a lot privately. Yeah. Because it was, you loved it, right? I loved it. I know you've said that publicly now. It's not something you're ashamed of.

1:19:58Josh Widdicombe:But you loved it, loved it. It did feel like you were going to say, we've discussed this privately. You slept with the dancer.

1:20:05Romesh Ranganathan:and I brought you on here to say do you want me to release the footage so

1:20:13Josh Widdicombe:yeah I did it was the Christmas special as our friend Ivo Graham described it to me the coward's compromise

1:20:25Josh Widdicombe:and I feel like it was I just my daughter loves Strictly i was just it was a thing i felt like certainly in 2016 right for years i was so uptight about what people thought about yeah and i didn't want to ever i didn't like those things where they'd make you put on a costume or you'd do and then you're like suddenly i was like this just chill out and do something that's silly and fun you're a comedian stop thinking that you're you know so i did Strictly and I loved it and it was the I would just recommend it to anyone that's in the position to just do the Christmas special Strictly it's the best experience um you're also super fit

1:21:15Romesh Ranganathan:and can I just say I hope you don't remember saying you're looking better than you ever have

1:21:19Josh Widdicombe:done thank you I think you are too I saw a picture of an old mop the week the other day it's definitely true for both of us.

1:21:25Romesh Ranganathan:Let's be honest, it's a lower bar for me. No. But are you on a, like, I know you're running, but are you, you've had a transformation, right? No, not intentionally. No, but, well, not like that's a lie. Gone.

1:21:41Josh Widdicombe:Yes, but I haven't done like a body, it is a vanity thing.

1:21:45Romesh Ranganathan:It is a vanity thing. Everything's a vanity thing. I was going to give you a get out, but okay.

1:21:48Josh Widdicombe:No, but what I mean, sorry, is I haven't done like, it's not like I'm going to do this body transformation and I'm suddenly, you know, topless. Yeah. But I've stopped drinking, which wasn't a vanity thing, apart from if you consider avoidance of shame vanity.

1:22:06Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, it's a dignity thing. It's a dignity thing.

1:22:11Josh Widdicombe:It's a holding on to your family and career thing. It's a form of vanity. It's a form of vanity that I don't want to be on the street. Is that vain? If it is, set me down. I don't want to be drinking from a bottle in a brown paper bag. Is that vanity? On a stoop. But I... So I stop drinking and I eat better and I do exercise. But it's not like I'm eating weird proteins or... No.

1:22:49Romesh Ranganathan:But you're making your own bread with psyllium husks.

1:22:55Romesh Ranganathan:You make your own granola.

1:22:57Josh Widdicombe:I didn't realise that was for public consumption. I'm sorry. Well, not the bread. No, no. It's not for public consumption. The cost I spend on that bread. But you're into healthy eating. So I make my own bread. Yeah. I make my own granola. Yeah. And I make my own boring biscuits. What are the boring biscuits? So you could eat these. Okay. So they are almond. Great. Powder. What's that called? Ground almond.

1:23:24Romesh Ranganathan:Right, okay. I thought you were asking me what generic powder's called. Because you paused. You went almond. Powder. What's... 100 grams of powder.

1:23:34Josh Widdicombe:Any powder you like. Any powder you got knocking about. Any powder will work for this. Just put some Pritt stick down. You'll shoot them 100 grams together. But almond ground, ground almonds. Yeah. Why am I doing this? No, I'm interested. Click on the QR code to access the... and then bit of sugar bit of water olive oil yeah and then dark chocolate chips that sounds good it is really good yeah that doesn't even sound boring I'll send you I'll send you the you can do it in 20 minutes and it's a lovely snack throughout the week great

1:24:11Romesh Ranganathan:thank you and they keep do they they get harder okay but you know in a good way all biscuits yeah eventually do don't they we're all dying such is life here's your next one I spent years panicking you always feel like what if you always feel like what if the last leg gets cancelled and so does Rob Beckett

1:24:33Josh Widdicombe:I like that I stand I mean I do think that so if I didn't say it I will start saying it you did say it to the Times in 2024 who you seem to be talking to a lot me and Murdoch are the dick as thieves you I never actually said anything I had my bloody phone hacked Am I right, guys? And they say I can't do the big subjects. Yeah, come on.

1:24:55Romesh Ranganathan:Come on. You're less worried. I'm assuming that you're less worried about that now than you used to be. Are you more at peace with... You're not panicking now about it going away or whatever, or are you?

1:25:09Josh Widdicombe:Not as much as I was, but I have my moments. Right. Go back through Flo's texts. Definitely, yeah, definitely I still am. Yeah. But not as much as I was. Like, it got really bad in about the early 2020s. Right. Like, mad, constant, intrusive thoughts. Freaking out. About your career. Yeah. And, like, constantly adding up the amount of jobs I would need to do to be safe, how much I'd need to earn on average from each job, how many of those jobs I'd need. What does safe mean, though? exactly but like oh and then I'll never then if I never work again it'll be okay because my family can eat so constantly adding up stuff to be insured

1:26:00Romesh Ranganathan:from failure

1:26:01Josh Widdicombe:to be insured from failure as if that's actually possible yeah so yeah it got quite bad but now I've

1:26:07Romesh Ranganathan:had a lot of therapy about that so I'm glad you brought it up no fine fine fine is there any I'd quite like to dig deeper on that I wish we hadn't talked about the other stuff here's your last one The pen may be mightier than the sword, but... No.

1:26:25Josh Widdicombe:Say what you will about me, but whoever said that's a...

1:26:33Romesh Ranganathan:No, you didn't say that. What was it? Sorry. The pen may be mightier than the sword, but some ink has a permanence that outlives them both. Fucking Nora.

1:26:42Josh Widdicombe:Who came up with that? Sorry, is that an adapted quote from me? No. Alright, thank God for that.

1:26:47Romesh Ranganathan:I think John came up with that, actually. Was it you, John? Do you believe it? No. Do you know what? Do you know what it honestly was? It was just John wanted you to talk about the tattoo on Taskmaster.

1:26:57Josh Widdicombe:Oh, right. Fine. Yeah, yeah.

1:27:02Romesh Ranganathan:Now, this was...

1:27:03Josh Widdicombe:This is difficult, right? Okay. Because my son's got chicken pox, so I've got painted toenails at the moment because he was off school yesterday. So I could show you, but my foot looks wild. I mean, you've not said anything that makes me want to see your foot less.

1:27:24Josh Widdicombe:And when I saw them, when he painted them, I thought, they're too long and they need cutting. But to ask us, we did the first series of that. I know. That's a really, that's an interesting thing to talk about if we've got time. What I find really interesting about that is it's now such a mega phenomenon. Yeah. But obviously we're one of the only five people that did it at a loss. that did it thinking it could be nothing. Yeah. And just trusting the kind... Like a lot of your projects. Yeah, exactly. It always works out.

1:27:54Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Excuse me.

1:28:01Josh Widdicombe:You've still got it. You'll never need to worry about ending up on the street.

1:28:11Josh Widdicombe:But I've really enjoyed it. you could obviously never imagine what it would have happened no i mean i i actually think

1:28:19Romesh Ranganathan:i feel quite i mean i i often make jokes because when i don't know if you whenever i do shows in america there's loads of people that are obsessed with taskmaster and so i remember once i like had a q a at the end and they all wanted to know about taskmaster and i always joke about the fact that we did taskmaster before the money really came in but actually i think we're really lucky to do it when we were just doing it. Yes. Because we liked Alex, we liked Greg, and we just thought it would be a fun thing to do.

1:28:48Josh Widdicombe:There was none of like, right, how the fuck do I make this the thing that makes me...

1:28:54Romesh Ranganathan:What's my thing for this?

1:28:55Josh Widdicombe:What's my outfit? There wasn't even an outfit. I know. People are dressing up. I was the first person, I think, to wear, maybe I'm wrong on this, but I did the first Champion of Champions, and they said, we thought it'd be nice if you guys dressed up for it. That'd be a bit of fun. yeah and i thought everyone had no one else had and i was wearing the england 1966 football kit for no reason but um yeah i love doing it yeah i got and it's weird that i got greg's name tattooed on my foot from what was no disrespect a show no one might have watched on dave yeah yeah but yeah do you want to say do you remember that day i said to you because you've got a Richard Pryor tattoo.

1:29:38Josh Widdicombe:Yeah. And I hadn't told any of you. Yeah, it was an amazing moment. It was a great moment. Yeah. And I said, can you wear short sleeves for this one? Yeah. And I was thinking, here we bloody go because this is going to rip it. Yeah, he absolutely teed it up. Yeah.

1:29:52Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, I'll do that for you, Josh. Yeah.

1:29:55Josh Widdicombe:And then I showed the tattoo and then I did the Richard Pryor joke. He got absolutely nothing. Nothing.

1:30:04Josh Widdicombe:Nothing worse than getting someone to... Could you wear an outfit? I'm so confident on this joke.

1:30:09Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what? I don't even remember you doing the Richard Pryor joke to nothing. But I remember once doing, this is not this, I did Top Secret Comedy Club. It was like Christmas. And they had all these decorations at the back. And then I went, I was on like quite late on. And I said to the other comics, has anybody done anything about their decorations? And they go, no. I went up there, absolutely died. I just did some fucking thing about that. I thought this could be so cool, referencing the room. Nothing. I could see them just going oh he wanted to clear that did he

1:30:40Josh Widdicombe:he wanted to make sure nobody was trampling on that bit this is a bad thing that I have on last leg because you'll discuss what goes in the show and they'll go Josh do you want to keep that bit in and I always think I can't say yes because if it's been kept in for me I know and then there's so much pressure on that joke I do because I'll do the joke it won't get much and then I know Adam and Alex will be thinking he fought for that but you know i had that experience with you though because do you remember

1:31:09Romesh Ranganathan:we did um i think it's museum of comedy yeah you and i did like a run of like a few nights of doing work in progress together and then we gave each other notes when i watched you the next night the anxiety i felt when you're approaching sort of a thing i said that you know like maybe push it in this direction oh horrible awful horrible never put yourself out there that's the lesson That's exactly right. Don't expose yourself to any kind of outside scrutiny.

1:31:35Josh Widdicombe:Do you want to see the tattoo?

1:31:36Romesh Ranganathan:Yes, please. And in fact, Josh, we can take this opportunity to say, we normally ask for an exclusive. Josh has had his toenails painted. This is our exclusive, so let's get this revealed. These are nice socks, by the way. They aren't bad, are they? So there's the tattoo. There you go. Oh, it's actually bigger font than I... Has it... It will have spread a bit with time, won't it? Yeah, it has.

1:32:00Josh Widdicombe:All right.

1:32:00Romesh Ranganathan:No, I'm just saying tattoos do. Do you see the toenails as well?

1:32:14Romesh Ranganathan:I don't know how it's so much worse than I thought it would. I don't know if it's the colours. What is it? Is it supposed to be, I look egg deconstructed?

1:32:31Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, God. That's good. Good for you, man.

1:32:35Josh Widdicombe:Yeah, so is that your exclusive?

1:32:36Romesh Ranganathan:That's great, Brenton. That's our exclusive. Please give it up for my friend, my buddy. Oh, there we go. My BFF. My good bud bud. Oh, no, that's gone in the wrong direction. Josh Winnicombe! Thank you so much for watching this episode of the Romish Rang and Nathan Show. I've been told that some of you are watching this, enjoying it, wallowing in it, but you still haven't subscribed. That's mad behaviour. You're going to miss episodes. Very silly. So follow and subscribe to the Romesh Ranganathan Show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. We drop new episodes every Monday and Thursday.

1:33:12Romesh Ranganathan:On Monday, I'm here with amazing guests talking about their career, what they're up to, having a laugh with them. And then on Thursdays, I'm joined by my mum, widely regarded as the audience's favourite Ranganathan. And we answer your questions, your stories, and your family dilemmas. So I'll see you on Thursday when I'm back here with my mum, Shandy. Send your questions and stories to podcast at rangaby.com, voice note or text on 07731 623 355. We genuinely love hearing from you and there's a good chance you'll hear yourself on the show. See you next time.