Kelly Cates: From Sky Sports News To Match Of The Day

22:47Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. I wasn't young forever, but I was stupid for a lot longer. and then I just thought people would recognise this talent and potential and they'd come along and say, you should be doing something. And I would go, oh, okay, and go along and do it. And I thought that's how television worked. And obviously it's not. You have to kind of go and knock on doors and say, this is what I want to do. Unfortunately, it's annoying, isn't it? Yeah, really annoying. You have to work. I mean, listen, it's gone easy for me. I've absolutely smashed it. I know for some people it's really tricky. Apparently, yeah.

23:18Romesh Ranganathan:But, you know, Sky Sports News at the beginning, pinnacle of sports broadcasting now, and, you know, everything in between, Match of the Day and all of that. Do new, younger broadcasters come and tell you that you're an influence on them? Or do they... No, what new, younger broadcasters do is they come up to me and say, have you got any advice? I want your job. Oh, really? Yeah, and I'm like, well, I'm still in it, so back off. It's quite... To me, it seems quite competitive, because you sort of think of like the number of people coming through football that want to move into what you do. Yeah.

23:52Romesh Ranganathan:It's much more competitive than when I was young, definitely. Like that kind of, the younger women that are coming through now, it's, well, there's more of them for a start. Yeah. But they are also, there are groups of friends, whereas we all, like my generation, we all kind of knew each other because there weren't that many of us. So it didn't feel like there weren't many of us because we were all mates. but now there are lots of different groups of women and there are some fallings out. Really? Yeah. They're not my stories to tell. No, no, absolutely. But if you could leave a list of names, we'll get them on.

24:29Romesh Ranganathan:But then are you watching like, I mean, look, now you're the Don. Am I? Yeah. But when you're coming up and coming through and it's competitive and all of that, you know, you talk to Jamie who's somebody that's like had to sideways step into sketches. but you know like he is he sits he sits when we're watching games and players go back and he's like sketches sketches and then and then and then somebody else will come back with one of his jackets on he's like sandbanks yeah I mean there was a time when everybody in football was wearing sandbanks Cal he's a sandbanks yeah like is he I actually Jamie gave me some sandbanks stuff and he gave it to like a few people that were on league and football and the website featured everybody that had worn that stuff except for me I sent him so many photos I don't think I've got one either Do you know who they saw the biggest uptick in sales from when they wore it?

25:22Romesh Ranganathan:Who? Jamie Carragher. You're joking He is like the one when he wears one they see a boost in sales in Liverpool. Jamie Carragher style icon So do you like when you're coming through and you're looking for certain opportunities and like a job comes up and there's a few people that are in the mix for it are you analysing what other people do and thinking how do I be better than that or how do I position myself? More when I was younger I think. Whereas now I think I'm like well I'm not going to change that much. So if they're interested then they must be interested because of the way I do things.

25:58So not so much now but definitely when I was younger I would watch everybody and be like oh I like. And then I tried to do everything that other people did and then it all felt very false. And then I would pick bits of what other people did and be like, well, maybe I could do that, but do it a bit differently or do something that suits me. I am making this sound so much more crafted than it actually is. No, but what... It's literally just turning up in front of the telly and going, there's a game coming up and then turning to a pundit and going, what do you think?

26:24Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, but... I mean, let's not overcomplicate this. We can all boil it down to, but, you know, you're so good at what you do and you're so well-respected. But it's... That's just being around for a long time. Do you think so? Yeah, but there are lots of people around for a long time. They don't fuck off. Yeah. Am I right?

26:40But no, I think it's like, I think that when somebody's really good at something, they make it look easy.

26:46Romesh Ranganathan:And I think you're really good at that. Do you know what I mean? You make it look like an absolute piece of piss. You make it look like anybody could do it. I mean, really, that's a good difference. This is the thing. This is the thing that people, and there is, like, you do work at your job. But at the end, like, at the end of the day, you come home, you know, like, I literally, I'm at the mercy of the pundits. If the pundits are no good, I am screwed. I'm sitting there going, so what about the left back then? And they look at you with this blank expression. You're like, oh, Christ, this is going to be a long hour.

27:21Romesh Ranganathan:But I mean, because I always think it's really unfair when people sort of, you know, people don't say it so much now. But it was this thing of like footballers being stupid. Yeah, yeah. And they would always like. Well, you said it about Jamie earlier. Yeah, yeah. But that's a very specific individual thing. That's not because he's a footballer. That's personal. He's genetically, he's thick. But that's not because, that's not a football thing. That's a Jamie Redknapp thing, do you know what I mean? But I always resented that because I feel like it's a bit elitist. You know, they've got a, you know, the example is you don't expect Stephen Fry to ping in a free kick.

27:58Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what I mean? So why do you expect a footballer to be super eloquent or whatever? And they are much more so now. Well, they sort of have to be, right? They sort of have to be, but also in the way that American sports stars were like this years before British sports stars where they're just used to the media and they're just much more media literate so they're just better at it and they're more exposed to seeing other people talk and and it and building their brand has become more of a thing now whereas it used to be a kind of badge of shame like if you looked enthusiastic about the media it was kind of people would take the piss yeah whereas now it's like that's the thing that you wanted if you're good at that it's like oh my god they're going to get brand deals and they're going to they're going to have other opportunities off the back of it so it's a good thing to have because i think like because i think the nature of of football uh sort of on tv has changed you know punditry and presenting and all of that because i think in in years gone by i you sort of think if somebody wasn't into football they'd walk into the room and watch somebody watching some people talking about it and it just sound very drab yeah and kind of i don't want to but now it feels like it it has to be more of a product doesn't it and have you is that during your career have you noticed the push towards that Yeah, because I think it used to be much more kind of like physically, like buttoned up shirt and tie kind of just and sit very still.

29:11And then I think probably because people started to have their own YouTube channels and then their own different social media platforms. And then that whole style of talking to people has just changed. The way everybody communicates now is is different and more relaxed. So this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think, you know, a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it.

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30:37Romesh Ranganathan:What's your take on the YouTubers and all of the TikTok football pundits? The TikToks? Yeah, the TikTokers. In what way? Well, I sort of think a lot of the time my kids will go straight. Basically, in my opinion, and you don't have to agree or disagree with me at all. This is just the views of Ramesh. Just your podcast. It's just the views of Ramesh Ranganathan. But I think you've seen an explosion of online kind of, you know, guys that just come on, you know, podcasters and stuff like that, who are not part of mainstream media, and have started to become. But they're sort of on TikTok or whatever, putting their views across.

31:18Romesh Ranganathan:And they become really big. But I think that because the likes and stuff are such currency for them, in my opinion, they'll just put like, they'll put out an explosive view just to get just to get attention like something like I don't know I think Thierry Henry was actually shit and then that feels like that's kind of the market that's moved towards but that's always been the way you think so? yeah because if you think of like phone-in shows you would always even if the well the host would say or you'd put on like a really controversial caller at the top of the show to generate calls yeah like that that's always been that's always been the case.

32:00And I think sort of more mainstream coverage is doing that a lot more in its social media sort of clips that it does, that it wants to be more controversial. But that's not, it's a bit like when, you know, written journalists say, oh my God, you just put that headline on for clicks. And like, yeah, I do want people to read my work. That is quite a fundamental point of what I do is that there are eyes on it. So there is a bit of like selling, a bit of marketing on top of that. And I don't hate all the YouTube and TikTok stuff. I don't think it takes away from, because the traditional coverage is still there if you want it.

32:39And then there's other ways of watching it that are still there as well. I just don't see it as a massive problem. I'm not really anti it. I'm just like, a lot of it is not for me. It's not for a middle-aged woman who's going to sit down and watch. I'd rather watch a proper traditional kind of build up with the interviews and the kind of shots. Like a whole package of it. Yeah, I like all of that.

33:01Romesh Ranganathan:I mean, I mean, the other thing is the other reason you don't have an opinion, you know, don't have a negative opinion. I don't have an opinion. Well, you don't have a negative opinion about this TikTokers is because you're not seeing them. You've got all math stuff. Yeah, I've got math stuff. Yeah, exactly. Like your algorithm's fucked. They're not all my algorithm. Unless they do simultaneous equations. Kelly's not going to see you. And let's face it, as much with the best will in the world. Yeah. I'll tell you a bit who could do a simultaneous equation. Frank Lampard. Yeah. Yeah, he's got, do you know what?

33:28It is really funny. Like Frank has got, I think like nine GCSEs. And this was, this was a big thing. You've got nine or 10 GCSEs. It was like he was a unicorn. I did a show years ago called Talk of the Terrorist, which is a very strange show where nominally it was about the kind of highlights of things, but we would have different guests on. Like one week we had Dynamo on and he pulled a fish out of Michael Vaughan's sleeve and it was just a very odd show. That's what you'd guess would happen though. That was what you'd imagine on a football highlight show. One of the Pussycat dolls came on with all these people and wolf heads and it was just very odd.

34:02Anyway.

34:03Romesh Ranganathan:And this is on the show Talk of the Terror? This is on Talk of the Terror, yeah. Okay. It was very odd. I mean it would be Talk of the Terror. It would have been, yeah. And we had a footballer on and the whole premise of like a good five minutes of chat was that he liked to read.

34:21and we treated him like this unicorn really into books what do you read? Fiction, non-fiction, sports biographies this guy was like yeah and he was quite bemused by the whole thing and we were like really like leaning forward like you read

34:41Romesh Ranganathan:yeah but I mean the way Frank Lampard was talked about for having nine GCSEs it was so funny yeah like he was the genius footballer the outlier Yeah, it was so mad. So let's talk about Match of the Day, if you don't mind. How did that all come about, that you ended up being the don-don? They just asked me. So it was, Gary was leaving. Makes sense. Yeah, but it was, I didn't, there was no kind of big manoeuvring. Gary was leaving, and then that accelerated slightly, and then the process became a little bit quicker and a little bit sooner. And they said, do you want to come and do it? And we're looking at a team of three.

35:17And I was like, who are the other two? and then they said it was Mark and Gabby and I was like oh that's amazing that genuinely as much as it's match of the day so it sells itself but also the fact that it's those two I'm just like oh my god being on a team I know normally I take the piss out of the people I work with but it's Mark and Gabby and they're amazing being on a team with them is genuinely just really exciting I just feel like I'm in And I feel like I'm in a really great little group.

35:51Romesh Ranganathan:Because I guess being part of a three, because, you know, Gary's obviously... Takes the pressure off. Yeah, because it's a difficult one to follow, right? And so... It means that when I make my more extreme views more well-known, they'll get a lot of the blowback out there as well. They're going to get caught in the crossfire. I'll drag them into it. When we were chatting about... I would love it if you unleashed some of that on this. It would really help us out on the old Algo. You won't see it, obviously. Eyes wide open, just going, Christ, she's got some thoughts. But were you, even as part of a three, were you, whenever you take over something like that, there'll be a bit of kickback, won't there?

36:34Romesh Ranganathan:Were you worried about that? Or did you bulletproof yourself? Or are you sort of mentally pretty? I just didn't read it, yeah. And that's not hard to do on my algorithm, as discussed previously. But it's not hard to avoid the coverage. it's quite hard to avoid people sending you the coverage but then I just said I don't want you to send it to me so if people would send me things even nice stuff, I was like don't send me it because when you don't send me the nice stuff like one, if you send me nice stuff I'll believe it and that's really unhealthy and two, if you then stop sending me stuff I'll be like oh my god, does everybody hate me which is not a great place to be in, so I just said don't send me stuff I don't want to know And so I really still don't have any real idea what people thought about it or think about it.

37:18I just do my job.

37:19Romesh Ranganathan:You're doing great. Thanks. Well, yeah. I mean, it's so great that you've invited me on. I've got some negative stuff that I didn't want to show just to get your response on. A printout just to get it. Like one of those things where you read mean tweets. But it is a massive deal. Were you able to disengage from how much? Do you have to try and disengage from it? No, I shook all the way through the first one. Really? Yeah, and I worked with people that I've worked quite a lot with before. And one of them was sort of saying to somebody off camera, they're like, she's really nervous. Because I don't get nervous really before work or anything.

37:52They were like, she's like, as though this might be a problem. She's really nervous. And I thought I was holding it together, but I really wasn't. I was just like quite quiet. And I sat. And then when you go in to watch the games beforehand, like you all sit in this little green room and watch all the games. And I went in the first one. They're like, there's the chair. And like Gary had his own chair. So you get to sit in Gary's chair to watch the games. Does it have an arsehole? And there's like two sofas. It's got a groove. But it's like two sofas and an armchair. And you get the armchair, which actually I don't love because it's right under the air conditioning vent and I get really cold.

38:30Yeah. So I sit there and moan and they put the air conditioning on. I'm like, oh, is there any way anybody could, would anybody mind if we kind of turn the air? It's just I'm right in the.

38:39Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Yeah. And have you got used to it now then, I guess? Yeah, a little bit. You feel chilled? It's still really exciting. Yeah. I mean, live is annoying, isn't it? No, live's great. Recorded is annoying when you have to go and do pickups and re-records and, oh, that wasn't quite right and this didn't. When it's live and you get it wrong, it's just like, move on. You don't have to go and do it again. I hate doing stuff again. I hate it so much. The problem is, it's like, because I've done almost no live TV or so, like comic relief occasionally. All I'm imagining, your stand-up is live. Yeah, it is.

39:10Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, that is. But then if you say something, it's just in the room, isn't it? Yeah, that's the point. But if you were doing a live stand-up show and somebody kept stopping you and going, I wish we could just go and pick that up. We just need to go and do this again. It's really annoying. Yeah, I guess so. But it's just that I'm so scared. I'm just so... I'm not giving my opinion, though. So it's easy for me because I just ask the question. Isn't there part of you that's going, drop the C-bomb? do you know what I mean there's part of you that wants to self-destruct I genuinely like on my last ever shift would love would love to just there is a part of me that would really just like or like win the lottery and not tell anybody and just go in one day and just just like behave really badly I have that fantasy now you've sort of talked about the fact for a lot of people as you head into your 50s I'm 48 years old I sort of think I'm going to just wind this all up but I didn't but I was thinking I wasn't thinking about winding it all up but you do start to think you do start to think end game, like what's it going to look like how is it going to wind up because it's not going to go on forever and then they came in with a new job offer and I was like oh okay so not so much the winding up thing.

40:39Romesh Ranganathan:Like the biggest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the biggest. I was like, oh. The biggest version of your job you've got now. Do you want to come and do that? I was like, oh, okay. But yeah, but then you just have to go in like 100 % and go, right, I'm going to do everything. I'm just going to, and all the stuff that comes with it and all the kind of extra bits and all that and just really enjoy it. But how, because you're not a planner. No. I'm assuming Match of the Day wasn't on some vision board at your house. No, no. So it just came to you. Yeah. And now you're doing this massive thing. Yeah. Do you have other things that you want to do?

41:19Like if you were to retire,

41:22Romesh Ranganathan:or if you said something on this that got you cancelled, and then this is your last day, is there stuff that you wished you'd have done that you hadn't? No, no, I don't think so. I don't think so because there's nothing really in my sort of future that I think, oh, I really, really want to do that. I'm just enjoying it. I just kind of don't – it's just not how I think. I'm not that kind of person. Do you have, like, things that you want to do? No. If anything, I resent the things I am doing. Yeah. You know? You've got a really great job. You've got a really nice life. And every morning you get out of bed and go, oh, fuck.

41:59Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we're very similar in that regard is that I've got no ambition at all. Yeah. And so you just sort of do these things and you go, oh, that'd be fun to do. That'd be fun to do. Yeah. But the problem with it being fun is that you agree to do it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And you agree to do it in a fit of energy. Yeah. And then that energy dips and then you find yourself having to do it and you go, oh, oh, did I say I did? Okay, I did say I'd do that. Or you suddenly get a text saying, oh, yeah. And what about the, you said you were free on like Thursday. say the whatever and you go oh yeah no I did say that but I kind of earmarked that for just like sitting in yeah I know people often say who makes you angry and I tell you who makes me the most angry me six months ago yeah right like that prick yeah I said I could do this yeah like that is busy as yeah yeah but because like obviously with match of the day you're like that takes up a lot of your time right no it doesn't it takes up let me just redo that so obviously with match of the day it It doesn't take up much of your time at all, does it?

42:59But everybody's like, oh my God, you're so busy. And I'm like, I work weekends.

43:02Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. I do Tuesday nights on the radio and I work weekends. Yeah. And I do a couple of bits during the week. I'm really not. People are. And then other stuff does end up taking up more time. But the bare bones of my sort of working week, really not that busy. Right. I spend more time on a train than anywhere else. Oh my God. Yeah. Trains. That's a good look. What's your take on trains? No, I hate the trains. You hate the trains? Yeah, I hate the trains. Really? Why? Because... This is good. This is content. Yeah, here we go. I like on the trains, and all the people who work on the trains are really lovely, and this is not directed at them, because they are genuinely really nice people.

43:39You have to say that. Especially if you get an evening train, when they're quite busy with the, you know, it's all quite lively. But they're not predictable, and they're not reliable, and I find it really stressful. I hate being late for stuff when it's not my fault.

43:53Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I agree. World Cup. it's quite tricky isn't it because like when you're doing Premier League you sort of get used to you've seen these you know you're locked in on the facts and what their background is and all of this then all of a sudden I mean it's just a bit of a different and also you start the World Cup and they give you because I've done them before with the BBC but for radio and you get this pack of stats this whole book and you kind of go through it at the beginning and it'll have a little bit on this and it'll have all these different stories in and within one game for each team, the whole story's changed and you're suddenly just like, this is not where we thought this was going to go.

44:32But then you're in the sort of narrative of the whole competition. But it just changes. It's just completely different.

44:40Romesh Ranganathan:As a fan, I've got to say, my relationship with the England football team is like my love for Arsenal has remained completely unfiltered. But I do feel like, look, you were talking to an idiot about football, right? So I'm fully aware that it's an idiot talking to an expert. But I think what Gareth Southgate, I know people criticise Gareth Southgate towards the end of his tenure, but what he has done for the perception of England football team, I think is remarkable. And I'm saying that, I know that we're both from Crawley, so I'm just thinking about it. But I do think when I was growing up, when I was in my 20s, and I used to go to pubs and stuff and watch England, I didn't really feel like I could support that team.

45:22Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what I mean? because I was sort of seeing the sort of stuff that people that were supporting the same team were saying, the songs that were being sung. And I've got to be honest, I stepped out of supporting England for a while because I was like, I don't know if I can be. But now, I sort of feel like, I feel great for my kids because they can be proper England fans now. And that wasn't always the case, was it? No, and he's amazing. And he genuinely is like a really incredible person. We did a big, in 2018, in the Russia World Cup, we had an hour long sort of program on him where we had a psychologist sitting with us who knows him really well and sort of broke down him as a person and how he deals with the players in the squad and that kind of thing.

46:03And his books, I'm not here to plug his book, but his book is really good on all this stuff. And he's just a really interesting, thoughtful, intelligent human being who's got really good morals. And he just thinks it was, the England team at that stage suddenly had a barrier between them and the press and them and the media, suddenly decided to talk about things that were important to them and he gave them that space and said, not don't talk about this, he said, go and talk about it but make sure that you're educated on it and make sure that you know what you're saying and if you want to talk about things, go and do it and it made it so much more open and they set up, even stupid things like, you know, the Bukayo Saka on the inflatable unicorn thing in the pool opening all that up they'd have darts tournaments with the media and all that kind of thing and it just it made them really human it made them really relatable it made them really accessible and it made them seem like the really um sort of rounded group of men that they that they are and he did all of that and now he's working with young men more broadly which i think can only be is really needed right now and can only be a like a brilliant thing yeah but also this is not

47:18Romesh Ranganathan:of you Kelly but on behalf of the rest of us at the podcast we haven't talked about the World Cup before we do want to take this opportunity to congratulate Donald Trump on his FIFA World Peace Prize and I know you felt strongly about that didn't you okay no worries now we've got a little game we've got a little game for you it's called Misquoted oh okay

47:40Romesh Ranganathan:it's Misquoted I'm going to give you five things that you may or may not have said you just have to yeah me Yeah. Oh, God. And you have to tell me what you said. Now, sometimes we've slightly adapted what you said. Okay, right. That's a bit tricky. Not tricky. It's a fun game. Yeah, it's okay. It's a fun game, isn't it? Yeah, but the thing is, I get really weird about quizzes, and I really hate doing badly on quizzes. Oh, okay. I feel deep shame if I do badly on quizzes. Oh, okay. Well, if it makes me feel better, this is stuff that you've actually said. Yeah, well, that makes it worse. Yeah, absolutely.

48:10Romesh Ranganathan:So here's your first one. Yeah, go on. Kelly Case, did you or did you not say this? wearing a footy shirt is in my DNA. No, I would never have said that. I would never have said that. That is just not... And I've never called football footy ever in my life. That is 100 % not me. Well done. Yeah. Well done. The real quote is, I've never owned a football shirt. Yeah. I think that's a good thing. Yeah, I do. I did have to wear one once for a shoot, but I was, yeah, I felt very uncomfortable. It all feels a bit... You know, ever since David Mellor and Antonia De Sanchez, she had to wear the Chelsea shirt.

48:49I've always felt weird about football shirts.

48:51Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. I went to an old firm game. Yeah. Oh, my God. That's brave. With Kevin Bridges. Yeah. And just for fun, I tweeted. Oh, Jesus. I'm on my way to the old firm game. Does anyone know where I can get a half and half scarf?

49:09Romesh Ranganathan:My phone nearly... It's great because fans of the old firm teams famously have a really, really strong sense of humour about that. My phone nearly melted. I got death threats that day. Yeah. Bridges was cracking up. Anyway, here's your next one. You did really well. And also, not only did you get it right, I love the definitive way that you dismissed that. Okay. Beautiful. Really good. So what I'm saying to you is whatever happens with the rest of this. Yeah, we've started well. You've smashed it. Here's your next one. did you or did you not say this when you're solid in yourself oh this sounds like me oh my god already I've not even finished the quote it sounds like the kind of shit that I pause the television to say to my kids when you're solid in yourself you're harder to unbalance like a weeble oh yeah I did say that oh my god what a dick it's not a dickish thing to say it is the kind of thing that my daughters will stop me and be like yeah alright fine This is from your essay in Vogue.

50:11Yes, which makes it sound much better.

50:13Romesh Ranganathan:50, it's time to kick on. Here's the rest of the quote. Oh, my God. In most rooms where the big decisions get made, there are many more men than women. That is true. There has to be a deep confidence of your own because mine is an industry where everyone has an opinion and you need to know whose matters to you. I'm so embarrassed. I actually think that's actually quite profound. Yeah. Or it sounds like something that you could type up over a picture of a beach and put it on Instagram. how easy is it to do that in practice to kind of be your own or now quite easy I think when you kind of you get to an age where you sort of know what you like so that's sort of it and you become more selfish I think as you get older in a good way, not selfish that you don't care about other people but just selfish in that you know what your priorities are you kind of live towards them I feel like I'm only going to say something that makes me sound like more of a twat Yeah, well, that's what I was hoping for.

51:09Romesh Ranganathan:But the truth is, because your status now is undeniable, and I know it's difficult for you to say that. It's mortifying as well, because it is literally just football on the telly. I know, but then in the world that you're in, if you say something, your track record means that you're commanding respect, right? Like it must be easier now than it was. Yeah, but I don't say anything. And that's the thing I don't, I very rarely give a football opinion. Like you, like there's much, saying that about England earlier is as much as I ever really say about football. I'm only ever really asking the question.

51:46So it's kind of, it's respect by proxy.

51:49Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, but you have to ask insightful questions, don't you? Yeah. Yeah. You can't just go, what did you make of the goal? I mean, you really can just say, what did you think? Can you? Yeah. Years ago, I had Chamberlain and I, who now does the racing on ITV. We used to do Sundays on Sky Sports. You probably shouldn't say it, but on Sundays on Sky Sports, we used together. And we used to have a guest on who would be watching the four o 'clock kickoff on a Sunday, which was then not 4.30. And we used to compete to see who could ask the most generic question. So we'd go on there and we'd be like, so, Ramesh, good for the lead?

52:26Who's impressed?

52:28Romesh Ranganathan:That's wicked. Oh, OK. Actually, what you do is a piece of piss. OK, here's your next one. did you or did you not but you're two for two by the way okay yeah congratulations so whatever happens from here when it's your dad's workmates they're not really that interesting that's kind of how I first saw footballers yeah that's me that is you yeah the mirror January 26th the mirror wow I get around yeah you do not just rent a quote so you're three for three well done did you or did you not say this I empathise with online trolls poor buggers? No. No, I would never say that. I don't think I say buggers either.

53:09Romesh Ranganathan:No? No, I don't think that's a me word. None of it is true. You said, the real quote is, I block merrily. Oh, I do. Do you? Yeah, I pre-block. How much abuse are you getting? No, I don't. That's not it. Well, first of all, I'm only on Instagram now. So you get the messages that you have to click to open. So if I don't know people, I don't look at the message, which is a shame because I feel like it's nice to talk to people. Yeah. And most people are nice. So I don't look in that column. And then if I see people being horrible to other people in the comments under their posts, I just block them.

53:46Romesh Ranganathan:If you see them being horrible to someone else? Yeah, yeah. Or if I see them just being a bit snarky, I block them. Really? Yeah. Even just people who are a bit like, oh, I think you're fine. I'm like, no, block. I just block people if they just annoy me. I mean, football is bad for that. Yeah, but I just don't see why those people would be in my life. So I just, so I sort of made a decision a few years ago that if I'm like, well, I can't go around and say these people aren't important to me and then let them be in my life. Yeah. So I just thought, right, well, they're not going to be in my life then.

54:14So I just block.

54:15Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, here's your last one. I think football management is stressful. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. That sounds like me. You said it to the 442 website in 2024. Okay. That was quite recent. Yeah. That's probably why I remember it. It is stressful, isn't it? It's so stressful. It's horrible. Honestly, you can see it in the manager's face. I know they get well paid. Right. So, okay. They get really well paid. They get well paid. It is 24 hours a day, seven days. When you think you've got a hard life, they're on call to like 20-something. Their job is in jeopardy the whole time. Everybody thinks they can do it better.

54:55And people are really vicious about it. Then you've got ex-players for the club coming on and sort of slagging you off. You feel everything really personally because you care about the job. So it's not like they can just go, I'm just going to park the abuse or the criticism or whatever it is. You can't do that because you care about what you're doing and you care about the players that you're representing. And then your player does something stupid and you have to go out and defend them. And you're like, I don't really want to, but I need to keep this person on board. then they have their own opinions on how they should run things.

55:29Then you've got board members and billionaire owners who suddenly decide that they know what football is and how it all works and how you should do things better. And it's just, it's not a nice job. There's very little, there's financial reward. That is true, a lot of financial reward. But there is very little other reward in the job. Like when you win a game, a lot of them, for a lot of them it's just relief. And when you win a trophy, it's just like, great, that's what the expectation was to come and do it. And you enjoy it in the moment. And then the minute they're back in the dressing room, they're all telling you they're thinking about the next season and planning and going, how do I tweak this?

56:03And do you know what? And even when they win a game, they look back and go, right, how could I do that better? They're constantly looking for the faults and things. It's a horrible job. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Honestly, it's not what you think it is, I don't think. And I genuinely don't understand why anybody would want to do it. I really don't. We've had players or ex-players and managers managers who are out of work coming in to do games with us. And I've gone, I wouldn't go back in if I were you. And they'll be chatting about things and I'm like, I just wouldn't. I wouldn't. And you can see them, their eyes are sort of, I'm like, yeah, no, I wouldn't bother.

56:37Romesh Ranganathan:The point you made about people thinking they could do the job better, like fans that think, listen, I've complained about Arsenal sometimes. Yeah, and that's not to say people can't have opinions. But I don't think I know better than the people who, yeah. Like, I might disagree, but I don't know better than you. And there's a difference between sitting, you know, with a mate and talking about that and going, oh, I tell you, I can't believe he doesn't do that, and having a moan, because that's normal. I don't mean that, but I mean people genuinely, some people genuinely believe they know better.

57:15Romesh Ranganathan:But the idea that you who have thought about it in your spare time knows better than somebody whose entire life is devoted to it. Grow up. That's my message. Look, Kelly, you've been an amazing guest. It's been lovely. I've really enjoyed it. You have been fantastic. You've been an amazing interviewer. You said you weren't good at this. I'm not really. It's just a hobby for me. I just do this casually. You just prod it on. Do you know that cuts me? That cuts right from the heart of me. It's a little side hustle that's regularly number one in the charts.

57:52what is it in Good Will Hunting when you go this shit's easy for me

57:59Romesh Ranganathan:we have one final question we like to try and get a viral moment or some sort of exclusive very tricky have you got anything that you have never said publicly before that you can give to us as far as you know what does Jamie Redenat sleep on now plastic sheets wow he developed a taste for it when he was 17. I bet he did. Okay, please, could you give it up for Kelly Cates, everybody? Thank you so much for watching and listening to this episode. Before you go, if you've enjoyed this episode and you've not subscribed, that's a bold decision. Crazy behavior. Follow and subscribe to The Romish Ranganathan Show wherever you listen.

58:39Romesh Ranganathan:It helps me, really, like, really helps me. It helps the team and it costs you absolutely nothing. We drop episodes every Monday and Thursday. Mondays, I'm joined by great guests. Thursdays, my mum, Shadi, joins me to answer your questions and family dilemmas. I'll see you Thursday with mum who, let's face it, is who you're actually here for. If you've got a problem you want to solve or a story you want to share, send it to podcast at rangabi.com, voice not or text us on 07731 623 355. We can't promise good advice, but you might end up on the show. See you soon. Oh, shut up, Rob. That refresh you've been putting off until the right deal came along?

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