Lenny Henry On Comedy, Dramatic Acting & Returning To Stand-Up

19:10Get on with your life and try and think happy thoughts and be with the people that love you, that want to be with you. You know, work with people that want to work with you. And then, you know, something will happen.

19:22Romesh Ranganathan:I think, obviously, you're Sir Lenny Henry. You know, you've got legendary status. I sometimes think in some ways you don't, people don't quite give you the flowers that you deserve in terms of, I look at it as a comedian of colour who grew up watching you. You had two, and I know I have had this to a lesser degree than you have because you were out there kind of on your own doing it, right? Two of the big challenges, I think, are one, racism and discrimination and trying to overcome that and dealing with that and dealing with people's preconceptions about you going on stage. And then the other thing is being a representative for your people.

20:01Romesh Ranganathan:Those are two things that you can't ever really... You know, it's very difficult to be all things to all people. Do you know what I mean? I think you get lumbered with that if you're the only one. I mean, what's good now is that there are more people representing. But in the early 70s, 80s, even into the 90s, it was me. And I felt it was very difficult. When I was in Crucial, we designed a show for Curtis Walker, and it got turned down. And then when Gina was in my show going, I don't think so, playing Tina, we designed a show for Gina and it got turned down and the reason given was well we don't need anybody else we've got you and I said yeah but in a minute we should try and expand that shouldn't there be more people doing their shows and we had Miss Jocelyn two seasons we had Stephen K.

20:59Amos I think he had one season we had Famalam two seasons maybe you know in a minute there'll be a show well you're great because you're doing lots of things. That's great. We need that, but we also need other people. So in the ladder of intersectionality, when you're looking down the hole, we have to start pulling people up and going, come on, it's you two. We're going to...

21:22Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, no, I don't agree with that. Oh, you think it's... A lot of... Yeah, see. See, ladies and gentlemen, this is what we're dealing with. Yeah, you guys need to stay down there because I'm doing all them shows. I'm doing everything. It's a very difficult... All them shows, it's me, Catchphrase, me, Doctor Who, me, Traitors, me, The News, me, and Hamza hanging out, me, Strictly, me with Rob, me, not you, slam, padlock, superglue, park your car over it, leave it there, they don't move that thing forever because it's just me.

22:09I broke the light. Sorry, Romesh, it's not that I'm bitter or anything. But really, not one phone call for The Weakest Link. You're not going to come with The Weakest Link. Hey, listen, after watching Stephen Mangan, I'm not going anywhere near that show. Did you see that show? That show was the smartest people in television all vying for that one. Nobody was The Weakest Link and yet you had to let people go. I know. I can see how embarrassed you were. Yeah, The Weakest Link is a really clever person. You've got to go now. You were embarrassed at the end of that show. it was brilliant that was my favourite episode

22:41Romesh Ranganathan:was when you had all the really smart people from television sometimes no questions get wrong and they still got to vote for somebody and it's tricky really? yeah yeah but because you're like the leader you don't mind yeah you are the weakest link of mine sometimes you have to think well nobody's got any questions wrong maybe this is a personality thing though you know that's the big thing I like it when you ask them all to vote and it's clear there's beef oh you're going yeah they're not like you I'm so jealous how old are you what are you 45 now you're 43 no I'm 48 you're not 48 I am yeah looking good on you there thank you yeah man you're getting better looking as you get older thank you how does that work it's if you did you moisturise Len the key is to look terrible for a long time well you did that

23:36You were a pioneer with that. Thank you, man. Thank you so much. You look rough, man, back in the day. That first appearance on Live at the Apollo. Jesus Christ, what were you thinking?

23:45Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what? Sometimes my kids will pull those clips up and rinse me for it. Yeah, I will do my homework, but check this out. Yeah, like, Dad, did you not know you were going to be on TV? Wow, you didn't even comb your hair, man. I know. Hey, listen, all of that's gone right now. You look great on telly now. I bet you walk past every mirror and go, hey. No, man, you're running teams. That's good. No, I don't. I don't. Look at you. You didn't put any makeup on here. You already look like a million dollars. Look at you. How are you doing this? I feel like I'm - Do you go gym? You go gym, right?

24:19Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Do you have a beauty regime? Yes. I moisturize. Do you moisturize your feet? Magnesium butter, I sometimes use. Yeah, you see. You're doing all of the things. Went for a pedicure the other day. I have a pedicure once a year. Once a year? Yeah, Lisa insists because she doesn't want to be in bed with a werewolf. I have claws on my feet. Do you do this? Does anybody here have claws after a certain period? Do you pedicure? Yeah, well, not only pedicure, but I'd trim my toenails and do the basics. I think pedicures are quite rare for men. Yeah, they are quite rare. I think one a year is still good.

24:55Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, I think once a year probably puts you in the top 5%. When your claws are out here, you can't get your shoes on. That's what you've got to get. My dad, his feet were so bad, he could have scaled a rock face. Hands free. It was insane. My dad never cut his nails. Oh, my God. It was so horrible. And then I remember when Lisa first came around, she said it was very difficult for her to focus on anything else. You've got these talons. You know, like just him tapping them on the floor like a raptor. Nice to meet you. Oh, God. Mate, so bad. So bad. But you're together now. You put yourself together.

25:39Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, you look great, though. Look at you. Look at this. You've got the seer sucker. Seer sucker soup. Nice. Yeah, nice. I'll try. I mean, I think when you get into show business and you can afford clothes, you do go through a period, because I was in light entertainment for a while, and the clothes in light entertainment are different to the clothes now. Comedians can go on stage like this or like this. You can be hip now, Universal Works or whatever. You can look cool. But back in the day, you had to wear a suit, a stage suit. So it was either a tuxedo that everybody wore or an adaptation of a tuxedo.

26:13The clip I hate of me is on the all-winners final of New Faces in 1975 where I was wearing a sky blue tuxedo that had been made by a guy in Wall Heath called Tirey. And it was a sky blue tuxedo with very big lapels that you could land concord on. And there were flares.

26:35Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. It was just a dumpster fire. But you always looked pretty well put together. Oh, but it wasn't great. I was wearing, I was 16, and I was wearing 45-year-old comedian clothes. Yeah, I think the young footage of you is, you are just... Pretty brutal. Well, you're dressed like a proper grown-up. But that's what I knew. And that's, I had a mentor called Don McLean from Cracker Jack. And Don McLean said, you've got to come to my tailor. So eventually I went to his tailor. And I got some comedian stage clothes. And I literally looked like, for eight years, I looked like Frank Carsten or George Roper or the little Irish fellow walking to a pub.

27:10I looked like those guys. And so when I did the Lenny Henry show and Three of a Kind, I met costume designers and they said, oh, you should be wearing this. And so suddenly I knew people who knew about clothes and had taste.

27:21Romesh Ranganathan:I did a photo shoot for Edinburgh one year. Because I just feel like you sort of don't realise how you look. I did a photo shoot and my agents at the time, the photographer sent the photo to some agents and then they called me in for a meeting. And I thought the meeting was to choose which photo we're going to use for the poster or whatever, the flyers. And I went in and it was a bit awkward. As I arrived, I thought, oh, this is going to be... I actually thought I was going to get dropped. like that was the energy and they said we wanted to talk to you about your photos and I said yeah she said they're unusable and I said why and she goes just because it's not an easy way to say because of because of the clothes and how you look in the photos is this where the redesign of Ramesh starts no they didn't have any positive they just said you need to they started going to you need to have a capsule they started telling me how I should dress and blah, blah, blah.

28:18Romesh Ranganathan:But the problem is I was broke, right? And I was just... But still, there's no excuse. I know. Listen, I'm just trying to slightly defend myself. I'm being your friend here. Yeah. You know, when I realised I really had a problem, I was supporting Sean Walsh on tour. And I was teaching at the time. So I used to do a day and then go and do... I turned up and he was chatting to me. And then he goes, when are you getting changed? Right? I said, this is what I'm wearing on stage. I don't think he stopped laughing for about four minutes. he could not believe I was going on stage like that because I just sort of thought it doesn't matter does it I hadn't realised it matters do you know what I mean but I sense a change in you the evolution of you has been extraordinary the moving from the guy who used to be a teacher to this and it happens to we all get a sense where we wake up and go oh I don't have to look the way I used to look I was broke before and now I can actually afford to go and get you know there was an Oswald Boateng thing I'd have to stop that because it was I had to sell my house but there was an Oswald Boateng period for me.

29:19Every time I had a big gig, I thought, I've got to get a Boateng suit. And as I was walking towards, you could hear Oswald going, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I got him now. And it was for a while. It was like Boateng. But yeah, you can look good. I mean, I remember talking to an American comedian who said, you need to look better than they do. Lots of American comedians, maybe on their special, but generally when they're trying out material, they just walk in off the street and do sets. And I always want to look good now on stage. So on my tour, you know, I always want to look like, yeah.

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30:58Romesh Ranganathan:Well, let's talk about the tour because you're back on stage, on the road. I read about you doing Latitude. We did the same comedy festival. I did road, yeah, road comedy festival. You did road comedy festival for Jarrah Christmas. I loved you. That's a great gig. freezing cold outside rain perfect the audience weren't even pretending that they were there to see me they were just thanks Len we'll be out we'll be out of your hair in a minute man freezing cold what made you decide to do stand up again well I haven't done it for 15 years and every time you do a play doing a play is great so Fences, The Fellow, whatever Archie Rowe I love being an actor, it's great but you do get a sense there's a twinge every so often of there was this other thing i used to do yeah which i did for a very long 40 years or something and what whatever happened to that guy whatever happened to that thing and you can't just break out in the middle of a play and start doing the type five there was a moment in a fellow when um my iago started to laugh at something and my face was desperate to be on the joke but i had bit to do.

32:11I couldn't be in on his joke. I had to carry on doing the play. There was a moment at the National when the set didn't work. The set was and the whole play stopped and we were all waiting while the play got fixed. And I thought I would by right be able to go, so where are you from? What do you do? What's your name? And really, what's that you're wearing? I had permission to do crowd work. But a manager came up and said, ladies and gentlemen, the computers aren't working and we'll be with you in a moment while the IT people sorted out. And I was led off the stage because they knew I was about to do 10 minutes.

32:46And I thought, oh, great, I'm an actor now. I don't have to do it anymore. And then in the last year or so, I've just thought, I've done two one-person shows. That's a sign. August in England was a one-person show. Everything is brilliant. Every brilliant thing is a one-person show. And those are the things I've enjoyed the most in the last three years because I get to be the guy talking to the audience. Yeah, center retention thing. I'm telling a narrative story, but I can, if something happens, I can ease off and do a little joke. And then I loved it so much, I thought, I've got to. People kept saying, when are you going to do your stuff again, Lynn?

33:20And I didn't have any stuff. I hadn't written a set for ages. So I started to sit down and think, well, what would I talk about now?

33:27Romesh Ranganathan:But during your career, what stand-up is, I mean, I know we're both massive Pryor fans, and he was a bit, you know, I think he was obviously massively ahead of his time. But you think about what you were doing when you first started being on stage, that was joke, joke, joke, right? And you look at where stand-up is and you've talked about, you're actually quite a big student of stand-up, you know. Yeah, I love stand-up. It's much more self-exploration, you know, you're trying to tap into what you really think about things. Has that changed, like, is that, was that a challenge for you, like? I think the Edinburgh show, I mean, I go to Edinburgh as often as I can.

34:03So when I see Edinburgh shows, there's a difference between the Edinburgh show and the show you do if you're on tour, the Lenny show. You know, because the Edinburgh show is curtailed. It's 45 minutes an hour. It's quite good if it's got a big, unless you're a hardcore comic, it's quite good if you've got a beginning, middle and end and a climax that ties in with the beginning of the show, a narrative theme running throughout. But for the comics that I love who just come on and go, I can do no more. And they do lots of jokes. I love that. I've seen Seinfeld, Mario Joyner, Emo. I saw all the 80s peak comedians just coming on and kill for an hour and then dropping the mic and going, goodnight.

34:44And you feel exhausted from laughing. You just kind of laugh so much. I've got to go and have oxygen. So I love that. Whereas it seems to me that when you do an Edinburgh show, I've got to work with a director. Directors are great, but what they tend to do is take the jokes out and go, let's work on the scaffolding. and they go we need the jokes as well yeah yeah we need the jokes but we're going to work on the scaffolding in the show so that it has a cohesion and that's problematic when you're doing a tour and you go to Great Yarmouth and they go what's this scaffolding shit where's the jokes

35:16Romesh Ranganathan:I know man I know because you've got to take it on the yeah I know exactly what you mean suddenly you have to take the Edinburgh show on the road and it's all scaffolding and not very many jokes and then you go and at the end of the day isn't that what it's all really about you have to say that do you know what I mean no no listen I love the Edinburgh shows I thought London's show was great there's been many many shows where I thought yeah I want to I want to do a show like that but the thing where you where you drink the Kool-Aid and decide you're going to do an Edinburgh show because it's that's the thing that I'm I had to steer clear of when I was doing this because I just thought it's tough you need to just make people laugh yeah so most of the Edinburgh type things have slightly gone yeah got it and now it's lots of jokes how close is it now to what it's going to be like have you got it have you written it there's I'm doing more work in progress, but I'm really enjoying it.

36:02I love Latitude. I've really enjoyed Road. And, yeah, we're getting to a place where it's getting a bit tighter.

36:07Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Latitude's hard, though, I think. I like Latitude. It's a big tent, and then the audience noise doesn't hit you. It's really weird when people are on cushions like this. I know. People are like that watching. That's what I mean. And then you go on, and particularly like, you know, a lot of the time when you hit latitude, you're trying out new stuff. Or newer stuff. Are you? Not new stuff, but newer stuff. Like, you know, I was on the tour cycle of like, I'm going to go on the road later on in the year. And I went and did the stuff. By the way, tell me if you think this is unacceptable. Lisa and the kids came, right?

36:43Romesh Ranganathan:That's not unacceptable. I'm all right with that. Right? They said, can we watch you do the stand-up? I said, yeah, of course. They sat. So you know where the audience is? Yeah. Then there's a barrier. Yeah. They sat on the bit in front of the barrier. Wow, like at Live Aid. Horrendous. Like the one Bono gets up on stage. Yeah. They thought you were going to get them on stage and start doing material about them. I don't know what they were thinking. So I delivered the show like this, and then I met them outside the stage. I said, what the hell did you think you were doing? What did they say? Well, obviously Lisa was furious.

37:12Romesh Ranganathan:She thought she was being supportive, and I was throwing it back in her face. Were the kids playing PlayStation and stuff? They were sort of like this, and they're like, oh, this guy. Did they love you? Why's this old man? Did they love you, though? Do they come and see you and laugh and stuff? Yeah, they do. They do. But it's that thing of, you know, they sort of, I sometimes feel guilty for talking about them, but then when I don't talk about them, they're like, how come? Yeah, what am I, chopped liver? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So are you enjoying doing the work in progress then? Work in progress is hard because you don't know where they're going to book you.

37:43Oh, yeah, we booked you in a cellar in Bracknell. Okay. I haven't been in a cellar for a long time. You rock up and there's like 60 people like that with drinks going, be funny, be funny, be funny. and it's good it's good do you ever die on your you can't do you die on your ass now? no I've got the old rope principle you know that club old rope? yeah where you hold the if you do old material you have to touch the I touch the rope a lot if it's not going well if they're not liking any of the old stuff I'm holding that rope like a mofo I'm just roping but what's great is it seems to be working so it's lovely yeah I think be prepared if they don't like stuff I've always I mean when I was doing And when I did my first Live at the Apollo, I did 20 shows to warm up for it.

38:27And there was a lot to throw away. But you've got to do that. That's what we do. That's the job. And I only got that from when I went to America, actually. Because when I was doing my sets before, we'd write it and we'd sort of get it right in the first 15 shows of the tour. You know, you'd do it, you'd rehearse it and then run it. And then the first 15 shows of the tour is when you go, that bit's not working so well, let's cut that.

38:51Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. And then when I went to America and started to see Seinfeld and Chris Rock and people, they were trying out gear in Catch a Rising Star and the Laugh Factory, and they would just have a piece of it. And what was that guy's name? George. George would have a clipboard and he'd just go, yep, they don't like that one. He'd just cross it off, a bit like Jimmy Carr does now. Yeah. Oh, good, they like that. He would comment on the jokes that they liked and the jokes they didn't like. And I thought, and the longer I was in America watching these people, I thought, oh, this is a whole thing where you try material out before you do your proper tour.

39:23And so when I came back and started to think - So hold on. So your first tour day would be the first time you've done it in front of an audience then?

39:30Romesh Ranganathan:Is that what you're saying? When I was before? Yeah. Yeah. Shit! I remember Phil McIntyre coming to see me when I was doing opening, opened at Leicester, I think, and had all these cards. I had all these cards with everything, all these cues written on the cards. It was all over. He said, you can't go on like that. He's like a bloody carper. Need to get rid of all these. What's the matter with you? I said, well, I don't know. He is. Well, you can't have all this all over the stage. It's like fucking Ryman's. And so there was an expectation for me to learn it. And my brain doesn't want to learn stuff.

40:03My brain is like a Catskills comedian from old school New York and go, yeah, that's quite good. You can keep that. Don't do that. Why are you still doing that shit? Don't do that anymore. Okay. Yeah, that's working fine. That's great. Keep that. No, no. Don't do that about the wife. That's not working. You know, my brain's like that. yeah so when we're trying stuff out my brain's going well don't learn that yeah my brain literally says to me even before i'm on stage as i'm walking on stage well that bit about the thing isn't going to work well just yeah try it out fine yeah fine yeah and then as i'm walking off stage told you my brain's like that yeah my brain has done a lot of shows my brain's like that it just knows what's going to work and you're only trying things out to see yeah because you never know because there's some bits where you go, well, that's never going to work.

40:48And that's something that kills. Yeah. People are like, oh, I love this show. That routine about recycling, man. That's the one you were like, well, I'll do this, but this isn't going to go in. You know, two years later, it's still in the show. It's still killing. The recycling bit is still killing. You know, Jay Leno is still doing a routine about his dad not being able to work the VHS recorder. Yeah. They don't have VHS recorders anymore, but it kills. So he's still doing it.

41:17Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know how many dates you're doing? I don't know, but it goes right through to November. 20th of September till the 3rd of November. Yeah. Finishing at the Hackney Empire. We're going all over the place. Yeah. It's great. There'll be more dates next year. Great. Because I think it keeps evolving. So I think I like the idea of that. We've got a question from my mother for you. Oh, hello, mum. Let's hear it. I don't know what this is. hi lady i can't believe you are on the podcast i know you are great at impression rami does an impression of me but i don't think it sounds anything like me i love to know what's your favorite impression to do can you please give my son a lesson and you have a great day love to meet you again i have seen you at once and we have a wonderful day god bless bye bye your mom's awesome you do realize that don't you i know my mom wouldn't come anywhere near my work oh right so are they going to pay me no i'm staying at home i don't know how much chris tarran gave her to be on tiz was but it was in it was in the hundreds they had to send a car for her she had I think they bought her a dress.

42:35There's a thing, my memory of Tiz was, was my mum coming on in an apron with gravy, you know, dumpling gravy on her thing. No. When I re-watched it the other day, she's in a new dress that Tarrant must have said, well, Mrs. Henry, we'll buy you a dress. And she was in. Car, dress, hair done. That's how my mum came on Tiz was. So your mum is awesome for doing what she does for you. Yeah. She's a saint. She's lovely. She's amazing.

43:02Romesh Ranganathan:and also she saw me you know she saw me watching you you know we used to watch telly as a family watch yes a lot of the time and we would you were on in our house all the time it was really good that's good and I thought would you sit there and go he's no Tarbuk I'll watch this though yeah he's no Bird of Man we loved you and I remember just sitting there as a kid going I want to be on everything like Lenny and there and here you are thanks man your mum's great and tell me do your impression of your mum I think I've seen it already, but do your impression everyone? Well, now we've just heard her.

43:35No, your mum, she's got a legit beef about this impression. Can I hear it? Because I've just heard her voice. Darling, all I want to know is, why are you doing that?

43:45Romesh Ranganathan:Because it's not watching. What's wrong with it? Can I hear her voice again? Yeah, sure. Hold on, let me try and replicate it. If you just play a little bit. Hi, Lenny, I can't believe you are on the podcast. Hello, Lenny, I can't believe you're on the podcast. Do you want people to diss you in the street? Do you want people to go, why are you doing that to your mum? You sound like Spike Milligan in the 70s. What's the matter with you, man? She raised you, she fed you, she took you to school. And you're doing this. Listen, I had exactly the same thing. Len, I don't really talk like that on television.

44:19Why are you doing me on television? You want me to beat you? I will take this wheelchair and batter you with it if you ever do me on television again. I had that. I had all people. I, Christopher Asante, stopped me at London Weekend. He's the guy who used to play Mathieu on Desmonds. Lenny, hello. What a great character. I want to talk to you about your impression of African people.

44:43Two hours later. Doesn't that sound like my people? Why are you doing this to me? I mean, just on and on. Two-hour lecture from Mathieu. I was so... What did he say, St.

44:54Romesh Ranganathan:Desmonds? In Africa, we have a saying. That was it, wasn't it? Oh, yeah, that was what he used to. He was brilliant. Very, very funny. A sidebar. But it was, oh, I had such stick from him. What I was doing, I mean, I conceded to not wear the grass skirt on OTT and have the tribal makeup when I did Katanga, My Friends. That's what I conceded. Because my brain was going, yeah, but that bit works. Katanga works. You've got to keep doing that. That's funny. They like that. And then I dropped it eventually. Yeah. It took a while to drop it, though. It was very funny, though. Thank you. Now, let's talk about, obviously, we haven't talked a lot about you, the fact that you're a great actor, incredible actor.

45:28Romesh Ranganathan:Thanks. congratulations on being such a great actor can you tell us a bit about The Split Up your new BBC drama The Split Up is a brand new drama it comes out of Abbey Morgan's TV series which is called The Split that was very very popular and this is a kind of reboot of that with a twist it's a South Asian law firm divorce firm in Manchester and it's just about this firm and the people that are in it. And Rita Aria's in it. And Sanjeev Bhaskar's in it. Singh Duvi's in it. And it's pretty much one of the most diverse shows I've ever seen or been in it. It's an extraordinary show. They need some more brothers in it.

46:10I was the first one. But it was, not that I've got beef, but it's a brilliant show. And Sanjeev is lovely in it. Singh Duvi's funny in it. Rita's lovely in it. It's very sexy. Mawaan's in it. It's like a takeover for an hour. it's moving it's got that kind of will they won't they romance angle what your mom my mom would love it your mom will love it yeah because it's romance it's people that look like us um in romance being big business it's like you know if suits was in manchester with south asian yeah heritage so you're you're a podcast host in there right i'm a pot yeah i play alex and he's a podcast host and he's in an interracial relationship he's been in a relationship with jane horrocks his character for years and they've got a show called marriage works and uh the inciting incident for the uh for this episode is that there's trouble in that marriage and they've got a brand and if anything happens to the brand of their show um it's all gonna kick off yeah and it's um there are no small parts darling but it's um it's a coffin of speed but um jane and i give it our all look we would have liked more scenes but you know Rita and Sindhu and Mawaan and Sanjeev get the lion's share of the show sure but it's beautiful it's beautifully done and I think it'll be addictive you watch yeah um are you start soon yeah drama and comedy the relationship between

47:42Romesh Ranganathan:those two things for you where are they now you know in terms of I mean you're obviously focusing on stand-up at the moment but um stand-up will always be you know stand-up is always going to be there i mean you might take a gap um you know if after this show i think there's a prospect of another tour and then maybe australia new zealand um i've never i'd like to do america um but there'll be probably a two-year gap and then when i'm 70 i might do a a kind of i'm 70 kind of show right got you got you um so um and i'm enjoying the stand-up now i'm enjoying that thrill i'd forgotten what it was like that thrill of oh god yeah you know before you go on in the dressing and you're going, you know that thing in the, when the support acts are on and you're listening to the speaker going, I want to do the show now.

48:28This is my audience. Why are they being so good? Yeah. Who are they? Who, who, ah. Then you go on and you're miserable. You say to the support act, well done. That was really great. That was fantastic.

48:41Romesh Ranganathan:This is what it's like being a touring comedian listening to the support act. Oh, that's good. a round of applause that's cool oh they're doing it's a bit like my bit yeah oh they're doing really well that's a lot like my bit yeah yeah oh they're really fucking smashing it aren't they and then it sort of descends into absolute just paranoia it's horrible I mean it's post your identity wallow I have to kick myself up the arse and get going again with the you know we talked about you wanting to to bring people up and your passion for diversity and you talk you met that in the split up yeah that split up is a thing where it's diverse but the diversity isn't what the show's about right no it's not and that's like a that feels like those those sort of things are exciting right where the this is this is a story it's not it's not a south asian story it's not this is a story law firm yeah and they're good as well yeah they're making they're a very successful law firm they're dealing divorce mainly they have a lot of clients they're pulling in you know i think they mentioned a 10.5 million deal a 25 million deal they're they're running things this firm is running things sanjeev is an outgoing boss and his daughter this is a spoiler might not get the gig she thought she was going to get there's all kinds of beef going on in this show there's romance beef there's career beef and it's nothing to do with who they are what they are you will see their culture in this show and this is my dream show because you'll you get to see their culture and who they are as people what they believe in but that's not what the show is about yeah that's great i think that's great it's exciting man so for me to you know for you to have your own talk show for you for me to be to be doing whatever it is i want to do next you know you want it to be not just about i'm from jamaica and jamaicans talk like this and we ate this kind of food and i grew up that's great that informs who you are but your work should be your work I think and so when I'm acting I did Arturo Uy I'm not sure they've ever had a black Arturo Uy before but it's a canon play so if somebody offers you a canon play what are you going to turn it down because you're of Jamaican heritage no you do the play because it's a play you want to show what you can do and I think somebody offers me a pinter play I'm not going to turn it down because there aren't any black people in pinter plays why wouldn't I want to be in Betrayal or the Birthday Party or something so that's the future I think right we're going to play a little game with you to Lenny Henry's.

51:12Romesh Ranganathan:Love games. This is misquoted. We've got some quotes for you. Some of them you said them, some of you didn't. Some of them we've slightly changed what you said. You just need to figure out if you said it or not. Okay, here's your first one. Good luck. Zero stakes though. Dying on stage is the worst pain of all. Did you or did you not say that? Bank.

51:32I don't think I did say that.

51:34Romesh Ranganathan:No, you didn't. You actually said, this is the real quote, it's sort of an adaptation of a real quote. dying on stage is nothing compared with growing up in a working-class household in dudley i said that yeah i said that it's true man when you grow up in my family and literally with a hairline crack down the middle of your house on our house was on top of a cesspit on the street the clever people at the water board put the corner house on top of a cesspit so that every summer when there was a flood would be floating waist deep in other people's poo until they came and fixed it. That's how I grew up.

52:07So being on stage at Battle of a Social Club with people calling me a nigg-nogg was nothing compared to that. I got over myself, I finished the set and walked off the stage and went home. Oh, yeah.

52:18Romesh Ranganathan:I had a thing where somebody was, it was just after my dad had passed away and I wanted to get back on stage. And so I did a gig up the creek and I was on stage and there was a guy in the front row and he just started saying every now and again, bud, bud, ding-ding to me right just started like saying this to me but he wasn't saying it loud enough for the audience to hear right so then i'm like making a decision this guy's clearly being a racist prick if i mention this it's going to inject attention in the room and then i'm going to have to explain that then i'm going to deal with him and then i might and then i've got to then there's all this awkwardness in the room or i could just pretend this is not happening and get through the set and i did the second thing i just because he wasn't he wasn't disrupting the gig he he didn't want to disrupt the gig he just wanted me to hear that he was being racist do you know what I mean so I just did the set and walked off and then sometimes you think to yourself I should have just thrown the gig and just destroyed this guy do you know what I mean it's like shit like that man it's like I mean now it doesn't happen that's what happens when you become a national treasure but but but by the way viewers I have to agree with him it's very rare that I get that kind of racism now on stage.

53:34Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, here's your next one. I'm slowly transforming my house into an exact replica of House Lannister in Game of Thrones.

53:45Casterly Rock.

53:46Romesh Ranganathan:Did you say that or did you not? No, man. Listen, I would have loved to be in Casterly Rock. I'd like the Game of Thrones chair to be just right there, me and Sanjeev chilling. I'd love to be in the Casterly Rock household. And I like all the, because, you know, when you become a sir in real life, you don't get 100 men in a castle. You just get to be a sir and have a digestive biscuit. Did somebody tell you that's what you were going to get? I literally thought I was going to get some horses, 100 men, some knights, my own castle in Dudley, and a flag. But no, it's literally a handshake from the Duke of Embraer and, you know, a biscuit, a cup of tea.

54:22Online abuse. Some online abuse. And that's it. Lenny, you've sold out. Well, thankfully, darling. Otherwise, I wouldn't go.

54:31Romesh Ranganathan:Well, apparently you did say this. Evening stand in 2013, the answer to the question, your biggest extravagance. Were you doing a big renovation in 2013? What did they say I was doing? Transforming your house into House Lannister. This is what you said you were doing. Oh, no, no, no. I don't think I was. No, that's not true. All right, fine. You're just, you know, trying to get through the interview. All right, so here's your next one. No blacks, no Irish, no dogs in every single place that you went. so if you're a black Irish wolf found you were buggered that's my joke Kim Fuller wrote that yeah that's me I also did the my ears are a light joke and then they stole it for a commercial and I never got paid never got no money for that is that true?

55:15my ears are a light that was an advert on the telly and they nicked it from Live Unleashed and yeah I did that no blacks no Irish what was your comeback for the

55:24Romesh Ranganathan:ears are a light thing? my ears are a light it was just our routine that ended with that But did you not take legal action? No. No, you can't. There was a guy going around doing bits of Deacus for ages, and I just thought, oh, let me get on with it. Because in the end, in terms of people nicking material, and speaking as somebody who did lots of jokes that were trad-ar back in the day, I just thought, I've got no skin in the game here. I can't say don't take material because I did. Okay. Here's your next one. That's such a great story. I'm trying to get in shape. Spherical is not an option. I don't think I said that.

56:02Romesh Ranganathan:Guardian 2010. I said that? Wow. Obviously, you're looking in great now. I think I was big. I think I had a thing. I used to do lots of jokes. I used to, I was big. And I, because I'm type 2 diabetic, my doctor said, well, you've got to start thinking about your life choices. And it was about not having the party bucket. I love, in my family, seven of us, my mum always cooked for the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards. She always thought they'd show up for a meal. And we had to finish it. Our job was to finish all the food every single time. And when we had Saturday soup, which is the soup you have on a Saturday, we got a tureen each.

56:53And we had to finish it. And you'd fall asleep and you'd wake up after the wrestling. It was like literally being drugged. So my whole life was eating everything on the plate all the time. And when I got into show business, it just got worse. Yeah, unlimited resources. I was eating other people's food and I had money to do that. So I would have the curry. I'd have the Chinese. And I just got bigger and bigger and bigger. And then my doctor said, you've got to.

57:17Romesh Ranganathan:So now, how careful are you now? Like how careful would we be today with what you eat and stuff like that? Is it something you're always thinking about? I went out for a meal when I was doing Tri-Density because I went through a diet thing in LA and I went out for a meal with Pat Proft, who used to write the Naked Gun movies. And Pat Proft did this thing where he ordered a meal and he was a runner. He'd order a meal and the meal would arrive and he'd eat half and take the other half home. I don't do that, but I kind of tend to not eat what I used to eat. The problem is eating a lot is great, isn't it?

57:54Romesh Ranganathan:it's great it's so good more food more I love it man chicken legs throwing the chicken legs at the dogs love it I do it the same with sort of little sticks that you get with tofu okay here's your last one at my funeral I want them to play funny man by Ray Stevens no that's not me it's not you said I'm being cremated so I think hot hot hot

58:28come on come on man that'd be great yeah yeah I would have I'd have the Mighty Arrow the Carnival remix yeah playing as everybody walked out because I think it'd be funny and I've been to a few funerals with people in my family my brother Seymour I lost my brother Seymour lost Hilton and we tend to have a joyous funeral because in Caribbean culture we have this thing called Nine Nights, where you celebrate the person who's gone for nine days and all that kind of thing. And the first time I saw it, I didn't understand it. There were all these people coming in the house, don't they know, Dad just died.

59:05And it was like tradition, I didn't know that. People showing up with bottles of Jack Daniels and stuff, you know, plates of food. Hello, we're here. Come on, where's the party? Playing records. I just didn't understand it. And mom said, you don't understand because you were born here. So So now I realise that your life should be celebrated, not your death.

59:23Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know when I first read about the story you just told, was in The Quest for the Big Woof? That's right, yeah. Because you took the comic book you did. Yeah, yeah. And you describe about when your dad died and all of that. I didn't understand the tradition because I was brought up in Dudley. And I just thought, these people are interfering in our lives at the worst possible time. but they were there to help my mom through the process of grieving. They weren't there to just get pissed and throw up and dance to Curtis Mayfield. They were there to help my mom, and it's a tradition. And it comes from Africa.

59:59It's an Africa. It's a third world tradition. And I didn't know that because I was raised in Dudley, and nobody told me about my heritage or my cultural being until I sorted it out myself. So, you know, you've got to learn these things about who you are, otherwise you never know.

1:00:14Romesh Ranganathan:could you we like to end the podcast on a big moment good luck good luck could you share with us the best advice you've ever received or some good advice at least best advice lots Ben Alton it's okay to be racy and sexy just don't be racist and sexist

1:00:39Steve Martin don't never leave your money in the dressing room take your wallet on stage with you. Max Byer goes, when you get on stage, walk around, let them have a look at the suit.

1:01:00No, no, no real advice at all. No, those are great. My mum said, after I died the hideous death in Leicester, I came home and I was really upset. My mum said, what's the matter with you? It was a terrible night. What do you mean you have a... They didn't laugh. She said, well, go to Wolverhampton, get some jokes.

1:01:23But she's right. Yeah, yeah. Go to Wolverhampton, get some jokes, get on your horse, start again. She's right.

1:01:29Romesh Ranganathan:Look, it's been an absolute honour. As you know, I've said this to you before, but I wouldn't be doing comedy if it wasn't for you. So thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. Thank you for letting me come on. I really appreciate it. And you're an inspiration. And there's some kid that looks exactly like you watching television watching television and seeing you on all these shows that you do and they're all going I want to do what Ramesh does I probably won't do as much as he does but I want to be exactly like Ramesh and get them get the TV show of my own and run things on telly and that's what you're doing congratulations thank you man please give it up for Seleni Henry proper legend thank you so much for watching and listening to this episode before you go if you've enjoyed this episode and you've not subscribed that's a bold decision crazy behavior follow and subscribe to the romish rang and athan show wherever you listen it helps me really like really helps me it helps the team and it costs you absolutely nothing we drop episodes every monday and thursday mondays i'm joined by great guests thursdays my mom shanti joins me to answer your questions and family dilemmas i'll see you thursday with mum who let's face it is who you're actually here for if you've got a problem you want to solve or a story you want to share send it to podcast at ranga b.com voice not or text us on 07731 623 355 we can't promise good advice but you might end up on the show see you soon oh shut up romesh feeling short on smiles does your frown need to be turned upside We got the perfect dose of comedy, 30 minutes of Scrubs.

1:03:08Romesh Ranganathan:Zach Braff, Donald Faison, Sarah Chalk, and the rest of the gang at Sacred Heart are back for a brand new season. We play medical doctors who are besties. Just like in real life. And we'll definitely be up in each other's cases. Scrubs premieres Wednesday on ABC. And stream the next day on Hulu. Side effects may include laughing, cheering, and lots of high fives. I'm no Superman. Fall never arrives all at once. First the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other. A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf. Because you don't simply step into the season.

1:03:50You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall. Find fall your way at Ross. Thank you.