Loyle Carner: Glastonbury, Ottolenghi and James Bond Exclusive!

9:58Romesh Ranganathan:Should I just bring them in? I could just tell. We've got three. It's like Christmas morning. Yeah, exactly. You've got three Otolenghi products. Yeah, go on. But this is not the bit. The game is we've also got three mirroring supermarket products. And it's can you tell which one is Otolenghi? This is not Otolenghi. And we can do it again with the title music. But bearing in mind that him and Otelang are gang-gang. Yeah. It's quite a high, it's slightly... That's the pressure of the game. It's a high pressure game. Yeah, but he's not agreed. That's what's fun about it. Okay, bring it out.

10:35Loyle Carner:I want to put pressure on if I can tell if he's got quality products or not. Like my friend, he has a business where I just want to cut it down for the sake of your podcast. For the sake of a two minute bit on a podcast. Yeah, brilliant. Alright, let's see. I'm allergic to nuts though, so...

10:50Romesh Ranganathan:No, we know that. We look all nut-free. Fuck!

10:55Romesh Ranganathan:So this is meringue otolenghi. Can I just say... I wonder. It doesn't feel as difficult as I anticipated this, to be honest with you. And hummus notolenghi. So one of those meringues is otolenghi, and one of them is supermarket owned. Are you fucking shitting me?

11:24Romesh Ranganathan:Which one? Which one? Did you? Just tell me this. Why is everyone laughing? Did you think this? How difficult did you think this game was going to be?

11:38Romesh Ranganathan:What do you mean?

11:39Loyle Carner:Could I try without tasting them, do you think?

11:41Romesh Ranganathan:No, I think you, well. I think you probably should. Okay.

11:46Loyle Carner:I think what's a better game. Yeah, go on. is if you try them. Okay, but none of them are veegs, are they?

11:53Romesh Ranganathan:No, no, it was for you. That feels like you're not wanting the gift. It's not a gift. First of all, this is not a gift. I don't think it's a gift. Do you like Ottolenghi food? Do you like Ottolenghi food?

12:04Loyle Carner:Yeah. It's a gift. Yeah. I don't like store. No, I don't like it. And you don't like the game you feel like. How about this new game?

12:09Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, test go. What about if you think you know, you can just eat the Ottolenghi. And you don't have to have. And in fact, I'm going to go further so you don't have to eat any of it. But let's just go by visuals. Can I just say I spent, I actually...

12:29Loyle Carner:I spent a lot of money. It's not cheap. But it's affordable though. Otolenghi's food is affordable. For everyone.

12:37Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, so what do we, what do you... First of all, our fees... Maybe you can hold them up. Yeah, let's look at them around. So Ben, have you got actual purchase details of these? What do you mean? Receipts? No, as in like price. Oh, well... Because that would have made the... One is... Yeah, I do. Okay, so how much... So this is... One of these meringues is Otselenghi, and one of them isn't? Yeah. That's fucking... One of them costs about£7. I'm going to tell you something now. If this is the Otselenghi meringue... Yeah. Then I would... I'm not doing another fucking episode of this, but I will retire.

13:14Romesh Ranganathan:Do you think you know which one it is? Do I think I know which one it is? Let's play Notolenghi. Okay, which one? Right. Is this the Otolenghi Moran? Do you think? Do you remember? I think you might be fine, Laren. Are you working as a team? You could choose different ones if you want, or do you want to work as a team? Well, one of them looks like a crafted Moran. The other one looks like he got shat out of an egg. So... I'd be amazed if that is... I have to accept Loyal as the final answer.

13:47Loyle Carner:yeah yeah okay is it do you prefer ben ben whichever one okay your ben is also yeah it's not confusing but you go by loyal sometimes okay great thanks lord yeah this surely oh it's hard

14:02Romesh Ranganathan:though oh is that oh um what do you want to flick that one that's that one meringue is hard isn't it Which one is it? I'm giving some just... Oh, right, sorry. Suspense, suspense. Could you do little push-ins when we get this? I'll have to. Okay. Bit of sass there.

14:31Fuck.

14:32Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, go on then. What? So the red one is Ottolenghi. Okay, great. Woo! Yeah! No way! That is, do you wanna do the others as well? What do you mean? Of course. Let's get there. Okay. So what is this? What are we looking at here? We're looking at salad.

14:53Loyle Carner:Is it a, what do you mean? Wait, so what? As in like, do.

14:59Loyle Carner:So is it? What salad is it? Like as in the salad dressing or it's actually. Yeah, what is it? Yeah, what is it?

15:04Romesh Ranganathan:We're looking at a bespoke Ottolenghi salad. That's not bespoke. It is bespoke. like from his oh it's not bespoke no it's not bespoke do you know what bespoke means i don't

15:13Loyle Carner:know i've used it from the restaurant is that what you're saying it's from the restaurant

15:15Romesh Ranganathan:okay it's not made you order that no you can buy that or that we don't know which one it is

15:25Romesh Ranganathan:okay so you can buy either either of those yeah at el telenghi or i'm gonna a supermarket okay so So what do we think? What do you think, Greg? I would say this. That is... Ottolenghi! Right, okay, so we've got one final one. It's a shame, it would be fun to do one where it was not a-lenghi, but... Not a-lenghi, yeah. Alright, is it that one? Let me have a guess. Yeah, you have a guess, right? Actually, but this one might be difficult, the next one, mightn't it?

15:55Loyle Carner:Oh, yeah, no, now you say it.

15:58Romesh Ranganathan:This is hummus, right? Is it? Yeah, yeah, it is. Well, no, yeah, that's not part of the game. No, that's not, sorry, I missed on that. I forgot. So we've got... We've got... Nice. I can... I'll be honest with both. That is not... None of the bread stuffs are from Otolenghi. So none of the bread is from Otolenghi. No, that's not part of the game. That's just... Would I be right, Ben, in saying that the bread is not a lenghi?

16:22Loyle Carner:Yes.

16:23Romesh Ranganathan:Nice.

16:24Loyle Carner:I liked it.

16:25Romesh Ranganathan:Punch in, Will. Yeah. Yeah, you can do that in post-match. Doing it in his mind. Okay, so... Yeah, yeah. So where did you get the simmers from? sorry where did you get the one that isn't i'm not gonna see no but where did you get the one that isn't otolenghi from i think it's a supermarket okay can i just ask which so yeah

16:41Loyle Carner:okay tesco's all right fine i'm so ready to talk about like my pain and you know like my process

16:47Romesh Ranganathan:yeah we love that stuff but can we play not

16:56Romesh Ranganathan:I'm just getting a shot of it. That's on a cable. I can't get in and go. Fucking hell, just get a shot afterwards, man. I should have put it on the plate. The bowls are a bit... Okay, right. Ben, what do you think? Out of these two? Which one's a leng... Which one's a leng...

17:11Loyle Carner:Which one's a leng... This one. Yeah. Surely that one. This one's a leng... Yeah, just because of the peppers.

17:17Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. That is... Ottolenghi.

17:22Loyle Carner:That is the easiest game. You've got three out of three. Well done. It didn't feel good as well.

17:26Romesh Ranganathan:I didn't feel that challenging. That was good. What do you think of that, honestly? I loved it, yeah.

17:30Loyle Carner:I think that's going to be big.

17:32Romesh Ranganathan:This episode of the Romesh Ranganathan Show is brought to you by Santander, helping you pay smarter with a Santander Edge credit card, offering rewards, control and security. Sometimes you're making a bigger purchase, a holiday, festival tickets, or something else that isn't as fun as those. With Santander Edge, you've got up to 56 days to pay, which gives you breathing space and flexibility when you need it. The important bit, though, is paying it off in full, because that's what keeps you on track and avoids any extra costs. Use it responsibly, and it's just a smarter way to manage those bigger spends without all the stress.

18:05Romesh Ranganathan:Pay smarter with a Santander Edge credit card. 37.8 % APR representative variable. Monthly fee applies. Are the credit cards available? Credit subject to stasis and eligibility. to see T's and C's apply, 1 % cash back up to£10 a month on all purchases. Visit Santander's website for more details. One of the things that I really got excited about was you at Glastonbury. Because obviously we're friends, you know, and so it's, and I followed your career from the beginning. You came on Hip Hop Save My Life many years ago. And so then you're watching, there's something very special about watching somebody you know and like who is deserving of this to go and sort of flourish and do big things and off the back of both performances because you did a couple you did a couple didn't

18:57Loyle Carner:you you did yeah we played it we played it quite a few times the last time we played we just played the other stage yeah so that was like two months ago but the response to that was yeah unbelievable right yeah well at least i'm told i didn't really yeah i looked i didn't see much of it i looked at all of the responses to you really yeah and it was like but they're like in the in the moment it felt like you know it's hard it was so hard because on that stage there's a big gap between like the stage and the crowd yeah and i played that stage once before a long time ago in the day we were playing before uh billy eilish so it was a big crowd but i don't know how many of the people were there to see us if they were just like waiting yeah which was kind of good because it means that we were playing to people who didn't know my music but you kind of feel disconnected but somehow it still felt yeah when I was there it felt like it went well to the most part I made a few mistakes but other than that I was like it went okay how do you make when you say mistakes what do you mean just just like in a way it's kind of like we look for mistakes in like me and the band the way we play because it kind of if you don't if nothing goes wrong then you're kind of like I don't know if it's the same with you if you're doing if you're on tour right that like as soon as you slip up that is the thing that change or like that's the difference between tonight and last night before right yeah before that happens you're kind of just going through the motions yeah but yeah what did i do i just i just lost the time like got caught up in the timing georgia smith came out and i was like oh shit georgia smith's here and then i was thinking about that instead of thinking about when i meant to come in so i i came in in the right place but thought i was in the wrong place right nothing but that's good does that get do you get in your head about that i used to get in my head about that more than i do now now i kind of like it because i think when i go to see people that's the thing i think it's human nature to look at someone who's doing something if someone makes a mistake you kind of it fosters goodwill do you know i mean i'm trying to do it so much in on purpose yeah so people like you yeah yeah no no but no but what i mean

20:50Romesh Ranganathan:is like if you do if you write a stand-up show and then basically the aim of writing bits is like you're trying to get them as tight as possible. Like you want laughs to come as frequently as possible, right? So there's an element of polishing and like your economy of words and all that kind of stuff. And you're looking at different phrasing and timing and all that shit. And then as soon as you have it locked in, it sort of starts to die as a live prospect because you've locked your mental, you know, your muscle memory and all of that. Because you're not surprised by the audience. Yes, exactly.

21:21And so actually when I first started doing touring,

21:25Romesh Ranganathan:I was moving towards getting it as slick as possible. And then I was like, I need to move away from it being a six-man. So now I sort of try and, I almost try and forget the show before I go on stage. Because I just want it to be, I want it to be live. Otherwise, you're seeing somebody recite a thing.

21:39Loyle Carner:And you've already seen, I think that's the thing. It's definitely the same in what you do, right? That like people come to multiple nights or then it's more so with you because it'd be on TV or whatever. That like, if someone's seen the set, but then they go, wow, I love that. I want to go see it live. You want there to be a difference. Just like a humanity, you know that like my songs, I'm not going to play different songs.

21:58Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah.

21:59Loyle Carner:But you want like the talk in between or, you know, like just anything that feels like it's off the cuff to actually be off the cuff. Yeah. Because that's the thing that I found the hardest was when I started playing with a band, it was all new to me. And so to try and find some order in something that was kind of chaotic, everything I said between the songs would just be the same, which is fine at the start when you're trying to find comfort. And it's comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. But it can't be, it's not meant to be comfortable. No. You know, that's so boring. I can understand why people do it and why I did it.

22:25Loyle Carner:But then it starts to just become stale. And then you hate doing it because then you're just kind of going up there. Mate, it's so much.

22:32Romesh Ranganathan:That is exactly how I feel about it. Sometimes you go on stage and you go, I want this to be really special tonight. I want this to be a unique thing tonight. I know it sounds a bit worthy, but that is the act. It's to go, I want this to be a thing tonight.

22:46Loyle Carner:But then it has to go wrong. Because also what's nice is the difference. It's like in the theater, the reason why it's so exciting is because you're not in control of it. The only difference is the people there. So you have to leave space for them to react, but not preempt, which I guess is probably harder for you because you're kind of going, they're going to laugh here. So give a pause or whatever. Yeah.

23:05Romesh Ranganathan:When you're doing standup, you can sort of see into the future. Once your show's there, you can sort of see into the future.

23:10Loyle Carner:You mean night by night or like just inject like -

23:12Romesh Ranganathan:You know that they're going to laugh at these points. You know that you probably get a round applause at this bit and and and sometimes uh you fall in and out of love with certain bits and then sometimes i won't do a bit or i'll try a new bit to keep myself in the room or whatever and all that kind of stuff but yeah it is like trying to keep it live i think is one of the hardest things but then are you how affected are you by crowds because like for stand-up if i do stand-up and the crowd doesn't laugh yeah i am no longer doing stand-up right whereas with music it's a little bit it's a little bit different.

23:45Loyle Carner:I've kind of got better at it over time because I think, you know, part of it was I went to see, we were playing a festival in Belgium or something a little while ago and it was in like, kind of like an amphitheater. And my whole, you know, like experience of gigs really or like understanding of playing live music was like decks and like rap music really was like the space I felt like socially I was allowed to go to, you know, and I felt quite awkward if I went to other gigs. And so, but I saw Liane Lahava, she was playing just before us and I was kind of like, someone had played before her, like a some group like rap group like a local group in a crowd they went mad and i was like wow that's real power like look at them going crazy no one's even really listening they're just jumping around and whatever and then she came out with a guitar and she kind of there was no like introduction or whatever the music with the kind of house music was still on she walked out everyone was still talking didn't really know she'd come out the lights didn't change and she just started playing the guitar and playing it and playing it and playing it and slowly the whole crowd started to go quieter and quieter and then she started singing and i was in that moment i kind of realized that that was the power of the shows because I'd always felt like if I can't get probably the same way that you want to make people laugh I was like if I don't get people to throw their hands up or go yeah yeah cheer and scream then it's a bad show yeah when really like if I think about if I went to a show whatever the kind of show was whatever the piece of art I'm consuming is I'd probably be in the back with my arms crossed yeah with a frown yeah I might be loving it yeah yeah and so I guess it was at that moment I was just like do you know what however people want to experience it I need to do the same thing because I'm I draw a lot I guess I draw a lot of my energy from people as a person so I'm like if you're up for it then I'm up for it but it needs to be more like I'm just going to give it to you however I give it and you can take it however you take it I guess I think

25:27Romesh Ranganathan:it's an easy metric for people to be making loads of noise or whatever and stuff like that so it's easy to go that gig was smashed and obviously with comedy that is a that is a more realistic metric because Because if they're not laughing then, you know. But at the same time, it's that not going to meet them, you're getting them to come to meet you. And sometimes if you're on a mixed bill, somebody's had an, exactly like you said with Leona Havas, somebody has like an amazing gig and they're smashing it. Your instinct is I've got to match that energy and I've got to keep this going. But actually there's something braver and arguably better about just going, this is what I do.

26:08Loyle Carner:And I think that's it. it's not about trying to like it's not it's so much yes you might want the crowd to do certain things but it's about doing what I think what it was is I was trying to make the crowd do something that they didn't want to do to my music or that you shouldn't not shouldn't but it's less likely to do to my music you know because I played so many festivals coming up and it was always like everyone's making everyone go crazy throw their hands up where's the mosh pit and I was always thinking fucking hell there's never going to be one at mine but maybe I have to do that to play a show I was like that's what a show has to be you know whereas it's yeah I guess to your point it's more about doing going out and being like this is the show that I've prepared no matter what comes before and after and sometimes it will go down better and sometimes it will go down worse

26:47Romesh Ranganathan:did that ever affect did it ever get to a point where it would affect how you'd make your music because your music isn't it's not like kind of jump up and get rowdy music

26:58Loyle Carner:is it? yeah I guess sometimes we'd make stuff with that in mind like when we started playing shows after I made my first album because we'd never really played many shows that was then like oh shit we might need something you know like some more things for people to engage with but that I think I've had my lowest points like creatively when I've done that you know when you worry about what people are going to think and I've had my highest points personally not necessarily in terms of critical acclaim or anything or like you know the commercial success but just like personal satisfaction when I play something out that I've made from a place of like this is I'm making this because I want to do it you know

27:32Romesh Ranganathan:this latest album everybody's saying it's your most impressive it's an incredible record thanks so much it's so good I actually I actually did I did text you about it yeah and I was sort of I actually got to a point where I was sort of live texting you as I was listening to it which is it's not that I would say that it was really nice you were very nice about it but I did think actually no it was nice because you were saying nice things no you were saying nice things if I'd have said fuck what have you done on this one

27:54Loyle Carner:but I'd be here for it I've got friends that you know that are honest about you know the stuff I'm making have said mean things about other things but yeah

28:00Romesh Ranganathan:yeah

28:01Loyle Carner:thank you

28:01Romesh Ranganathan:no it's an amazing record and reviewers agree you know that it's it's it's your most impressive album them yet what um how much pressure did you feel putting this record together or do you feel any pressure are you weirdly like the least right because i think you know i probably coincided

28:21Loyle Carner:with having kids you know like i have two children and and congratulations thanks so much hard isn't it yeah really hard yeah but also but you know everything that's good is hard right it just it kind of gave me perspective because they don't care about a lot you know one you become like this the extra in your own movie after being like the main character in the first one.

28:40Romesh Ranganathan:I think it's so healthy. Yeah.

28:42Loyle Carner:Yeah. But it also just made me realize that it wasn't that serious. My son was in the studio all the time. And then as my daughter got a bit older, she started to come to and their view of things is so immediate and present. And I was trying to, I guess, kind of communicate with them through what I was making or trying to stimulate them or interest them. And so it removed all of the idea of anything that was happening outside. So it was the first thing I'd made kind of completely in the place of like, I really enjoying this you know or it feels good and I also felt a pressure to not fulfill the stereotype that I'd you know that the box I'd been placed in from school you know if like oh you you look like this so you're probably going to end up making music like this yeah because it was important for me for my kids to look at me and see me as like a someone with eclectic taste so that they know

29:24Romesh Ranganathan:that they can have you know can I can I ask because like ever since I first known first known you and you're still young but you were so young when I first met you and you first came out of music you always seemed so I don't think comfortable in your own skin is the right phrase but you always seemed so sure of what you were doing and you're walking your own path how? because like I don't know how the hell you do that man do you know what I mean? you actually made me reflect on what I do because I felt because is the honest truth because I sort of thought I felt like I was being too much of a people pleased with what I make or what I'm doing and your stuff obviously is hugely popular, but it never felt like you were trying to do that.

30:07Romesh Ranganathan:Do you know what I mean? You always seem to be so sure of what you were doing. Is that an illusion? Because it'd be great if it was for my self-esteem. I think so, yeah.

30:15Loyle Carner:I was kind of like, I think I'm probably like most people, you know, really quite self-critical. So I think maybe part of it comes from that, of like what you're saying, like me not believing, you know? So like being like, oh, this is probably, I'm trying to please this person, or I've gone too far this way. You know, like feeling like what I was making wasn't true to myself, even though it probably was. So kind of holding up what is true to me so high that it was almost like impossible to reach it. But it's mad to hear you say that because I think this is probably my first album I've made that I've put out where I've kind of been like, and I guess obviously it changes.

30:48Loyle Carner:And what's weird about releasing stuff is that like everything is true to you. I always feel like with music, it's like you have to keep releasing stuff just to update people to where you're at, you know, because otherwise if you don't release something, like Frank Ocean or whatever who I love he hasn't released something for so long that people probably still think in some ways he's where he was at when Blond came up but he can't be you know because he'd have made it and then even by the time it comes out usually you're a different person but to release it and then go away forever is like people only know you from what your output is right and I guess for a while I was so caught up with that because I cared about what people thought of me externally and then for me now it's more like an archive of for my kids when they're older to see like this was this stage this is when you guys were young this is when you were starting school this is when you yeah yeah or like like all art in a way it's like cementing

31:35Romesh Ranganathan:blocks of time it's like a time capsule for wherever you're at that time how old are your kids now uh almost two and almost five okay and how cool do they think what you do is i don't i

31:44Loyle Carner:don't think they have much of a like a of a concept of my son hates it if people it doesn't happen much but if someone asks me for a photo doesn't like he's like i hate this and he just He says it next to the person, he just goes, I hate this.

31:59Loyle Carner:But they come to my shows. So I think that's like, and my son came on tour with me when he was really young. He came, cause he just started school. So it's a bit harder to take him out of school. He would be just on the tour bus with me for, you know, three or four weeks coming. So we'd fall asleep in one country, wake up in another country. Then we spend all the day together. And then I play this, I put him to bed with Ben, my manager outside. And then play the show and then go back to the bus myself and go to bed. so it was like I spent so much time with him but I think he saw how grueling it is on the other side the kind of the magic of it because he's behind the scenes it doesn't yeah I don't know he finds it weird

32:33Romesh Ranganathan:it's quite good to show that side of it isn't it because it's easy to sort of think it's like all of the getting recognised and yeah right you're showing that there's like a little bit of a grind there's a grind to it

32:43Loyle Carner:yeah I think also when I wasn't away like if I'm honest I think he just hates that it takes me away I don't know how your kids feel about it you know but like

32:50Romesh Ranganathan:being away that's the hardest bit it's it's i think it's a really difficult thing because so i've stopped going away as much because i just got i i just i was like i'm missing too much time with my children yeah the the bit that really this is a bit sad but the bit that i that really sort of hit me was one time i phoned my wife and like i was like chatting and i said the kids uh do the kids want to chat and she goes and she called them and they're playing fifa so then i was like on the one hand this is great because they're just getting on with stuff but on the other hand they're getting used to me not but like do you know what I mean and so then I was like I need to be I need to be home a bit more then there's the other thing which is genuinely I do feel their development is hindered by me you know what I mean by what I mean by that is whenever I spend the day with you know some I don't think there's been a day since I've been a parent where I haven't been able to pinpoint five things I think they could talk to a therapist about in terms of their interactions with me.

33:51Romesh Ranganathan:Genuinely, because you know you have like, you get riddled with these like, I have all these like, you know, these opinions of myself or you've got these mental health things that you've carried with you and sometimes I'm like socially awkward and all this shit. And sometimes I'll do that, I'll model that behaviour and I think that's something he's going to have to work through later on.

34:12Loyle Carner:But being aware, I think like, one, being present and thinking about, even caring about it is you have to think how many parents sadly like don't have self-awareness to be like oh shit I just did something that's going to cause an issue of my child's future you know to be aware of it Lisa no I'm joking

34:29Romesh Ranganathan:I'm joking I'm joking I'm joking she's a great mum a lot of the time

34:38Loyle Carner:save me save me no I just think like to be present is one thing but also like you can never get it right I had such ideas of what I was going to be as a parent. I know, man. It's so normal. Everybody does. I think, like, I really thought I was going to just be better and different and relaxed and not get angry, you know? And I'm not. I'm not any of those things. I'm just like a generic, just tired dad. You know what I mean? But I think it's just that, like, the awareness is the only thing that, like, makes me feel better about it. And have you read that, is it Philippa Perry? Grayson Perry's wife?

35:10Loyle Carner:And she's got that book, the book you wish your parents had read and your kids would be glad you read. And the first chapter, I think it's at the front because she knows no one will finish the book because it's like hard to read books if you can't read books. But like me being super dyslexic, read the first chapter and felt like I'd completed the book. But it's about rupture and repair that like, the thing is not getting it wrong. But the thing is like, when you get it wrong, saying to your kids, talking to them like an adult and being like, I got it wrong. And these are the reasons why, you know, I shouted because I had a really stressful day here or like I'd just been this or me and mama fell out over this thing and I took it out on you, whatever.

35:42Loyle Carner:And it sounds like you shouldn't give them that much information. But for my son now, he's five. when he talks to me he's starting to do the same thing so he'll like his a lot obviously a lot more kind of like Neanderthal behaviour but he'll like smack me or bite me and then but later on he'll be like I was just so upset because you know and I think you have to invite like it's okay to be kind of rubbish at

36:03Romesh Ranganathan:some of my friends had a go at me for doing exactly that right because I had two of my kids having an argument and I like went off at one of them not went off I don't even really shout But I was stern, do you know what I mean? And then it occurred to me, or it became clear that I had had a go at the wrong... I discovered that I totally misdirected it. So I went to see my son, my eldest son, who it wasn't his fault. And I said to him, look, I'm really sorry. I said, but I was just, I said, I'm not an expert at this. I said, this is like my first time out having a go at this. I said to him based on what I saw that's why I acted like I did and that's why I did what I did and I made a mistake and I just you know I'm sorry and I'd love to tell you that it's not going to happen again but it probably will tomorrow you know there's a good chance I'm not but I'm just letting you know I got it wrong anyway I tell some of my mates they're like what did you do that for man what do you mean because now they know like you can get things wrong but that's the point though I know Some people don't want their kids to

37:12Loyle Carner:But that's like what we've been built on for so long Is that like you look at your parents like they're Super genius, superhero, like don't get anything wrong And then as you get older and they start to get things wrong Your first experience of that as a teenager Whatever it's like my parents suck because You go from thinking that they were perfect To being imperfect whereas if you see them The hope is for my son is if he I'm not going to cure like what it is to have a teenager That hates you right? By the time he's a teenager he already knows that like I'm going to make mistakes So at least there's like at least a bit of acceptance of like, you know, I don't know.

37:42Loyle Carner:And the heat that your children are allowed to make mistakes. That's the bigger thing is if they see the people that they idolize the most. It's like when you see a podcast with someone that you really respect or an interview and they say something, they've been going through something mentally or whatever. Oh, no way.

37:54Romesh Ranganathan:Like, it's okay to do that. You know, I remember like that thing of like realizing your parents are fallible. Yeah. For me, like my, cause my, you know, my dad, he's passed away now, but my dad, he got up to some shit. Right. And I didn't realize that. And then when I found out, it was like, it was world shattering. Do you know what I mean? And I, it was, I just, it was like, I didn't know that you could behave. I didn't think that my dad would behave like that. And same thing with my mom. Like the, I remember my mom was chasing me around the room once and she tripped over something and fell over, right?

38:30Romesh Ranganathan:And I remember thinking, I didn't know you could fall over. Wow. Like it was like, do you know what I mean? I was like, holy shit. You can trip over, I didn't know that. I didn't think that happened to you. You're meant to be perfect. Yeah. It was so mad. But anyway, it turns out she's got a hell of a lot of issues. But anyway. Talking of which we've got. Oh, we've actually got a question from my mum. Yeah, let's play it in. Oh, nice. Yeah. I should have been ready. So I suggested it. Well, I mean, you did. Yeah, you've been busy with this. I was listening. I was listening. And then I thought, what a great time for this.

39:06Loyle Carner:Hi, Laurel. I'm Ramesh's mum I'm such a fan of your music but I wanted to ask you Will Smith is the best rapper ever

39:18Romesh Ranganathan:I love that Jiggy Jiggy one and he doesn't use any naughty words but I got a secret that Jiggy Jiggy means something else in my language I will explain to you when I see you in person okay that i'll be honest with you that's not a question it sounds like a threat is that a question how is she was asking who who was who do you think the greatest rapper yeah okay will smith um uh who who's the greatest rapper does jiggy mean something for everyone jiggy yeah i think mum thinks she's that she's invented jiggy jiggy meaning sex but she hasn't I mean everyone knows about Jiggy Jiggy No but in Tamil does it mean No I don't think so I don't think I don't think the Tamil for sex is Jiggy Jiggy if that's the question you're asking let's carry on Do we get an answer do we get a genuine answer Oh yeah who's your greatest rapper yeah The greatest rapper

40:18Loyle Carner:it's just like what's your idea do you have like a top five or it just changes a lot Common is probably my favorite like when I was growing up Common was like the most he was like constant for so much of my childhood you know Do you know, I've got to say like...

40:32Romesh Ranganathan:Mostef. Mostef. For me, Ferramonch is up there. Black Thought is up there. Of course, yeah. Andre 3000. Yeah. But this is my relationship with what I think is... I have a slight issue with greatest of all time now, right? In terms of rappers. And the reason is, I think hip hop as an art form has moved away from, in my opinion, has moved away from it being purely about like a skills-based thing, like a thing you learn and you've got all these multi-syllabic flows and all that shit. There's so many artists, like really great artists that are doing stuff that they're not necessarily, it's not like bars and bars and bars, but just what they're doing is like

41:16Loyle Carner:creatively really exciting. It's become just like music now. People see it as just as like not always that particular genre that's separated from everything else. Yeah. It's allowed to bleed into everything else.

41:27Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. And so like, so then you have like rappers who aren't, who you wouldn't necessarily go, they'd kill anyone in a battle. Yeah. But it's not really about that. It's not about that. They're just making amazing music. Yeah.

41:36Loyle Carner:It's changed for loads. Like at one point it was like the new, it was almost like how people got their news. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, when I was young, you know, when you're young, you don't have as much of your own, you're trying to shape your ideas socially, politically, right? of like how people that you look up to, you wanna look how they see the world and their perspective so you can build your own perspective. But then as you get older, I don't know, like you kind of, you have your own. So it's like, I don't, it's not, I don't listen to as much rap anymore, but I'm not looking, I'm not looking at it for the same reason.

42:02Loyle Carner:Like it was so formative in my childhood years because in my childhood, because I was like, I needed an opinion, you know what I mean? An opinion that was separate from my parents. So, you know, like, especially being like my mum, like culturally, I like, I'm different to the rest of my family. You know, like my stepfather is white, my mum is white. And I wanted to like understand Like I was just wanting to listen to people Who maybe understood like my experience Like what it was like to walk the streets and look like me But then as you get older you start to build Your own experience of that you know so I don't know But yeah I think like I'm happy that it has gone From a place of being like surgically Precise I'm a rapper and only That to be like yeah I do that a bit I mean Andre 3000 is probably like Why he's like up there as Maybe my favourite is because I don't look at him as a rapper really I just look at him as a musician how far are you away and be totally honest how far away are you from a flute album like days away then days away do you have any

43:00Romesh Ranganathan:idea how your music will evolve like for your next record for example I can't imagine even

43:05Loyle Carner:thinking about it yet I mean just just like it's like trying to get I don't know trying to get closer and closer to like a true representation of how you feel you know and then every time you think you get there but then as soon as you finish it you you grow up more you experience something else and then who you are changes and then you look back on your other thing being like oh shit that wasn't as that's not as close to me as i thought even though when you made it it probably

43:26Romesh Ranganathan:was so that's it so it's so much like writing stand-up but but how uh because your stuff is so personal and it's and i think that's why people love it like it's yeah it's arresting listening to how you talk about what you talk about. Does that mean it's difficult to put that stuff out?

43:46Loyle Carner:Yeah, I mean, it wasn't difficult when I was young because there was no one really who was affected by it. Like my mum a little bit. And like my second album or something, I got quite some bad reviews and they were more just like targeted at my mum. And then like, so then I was like, oh, maybe I shouldn't talk.

44:00Romesh Ranganathan:You got bad reviews targeted at your mum?

44:01Loyle Carner:Yeah, just like, I remember some woman came, woman came to my house to interview me and my mum. And then she, my mum made her lunch or whatever. and then she just ripped, like basically ripped my mum to shit and was like saying, oh, my mum said loads of nice things about me, but of course she'd say that because she's my mum. I was like, obviously she's my mum. But anyways, well, it doesn't matter. But like, I just -

44:18Romesh Ranganathan:I think it's a bit much to expect somebody's mother to be an unbiased commentator on their stuff.

44:24Loyle Carner:But it just, it was basically kind of, now I've got kids, I think it's a lot harder. Right. It's because my son's starting school. I don't want really anyone to know that he's my son. I don't want it to, I don't want it for him to be, to have any kind of, just for it to have no impact whether positive or negative, you know, just for him to be able to float through. To live his life. Yeah, and dads are meant to just be boring and, you know, like pick you up from school. And that's what I'd like to be. I don't want to fill any other gap, you know? I guess it's more like the more I put music out, the more people I talk about close to me, it begins to affect their life.

44:56Loyle Carner:So I'm a lot more conscious of it now than I was when I started.

44:59Romesh Ranganathan:And then when you say conscious of it, does that mean it will change? Will you, would you write something and then go, do you know what, that's too exposing? Yeah, probably now. I think

45:07Loyle Carner:or like it's just I guess you know like I love El Sweatshirt a lot and I think that he's like like the figurehead of like coded language you know he's saying a lot of truth and how he feels but on first listen or on like a casual listen you wouldn't pick it up or you wouldn't see it as so personal I think sometimes and that's why I've always been an admirer of him for that because it's something I can't do you know like writing a way that's abstract but still for him is really meaningful right When I try to be abstract, I don't feel as connected to it. So I kind of become more literal, which then is quite dangerous for my family's privacy.

45:47Loyle Carner:Yeah, no, I get that.

45:49Romesh Ranganathan:Right, we've got a little game for you because you loved Nottalenghi so much. So this game is called Misquoted. We do it with every guest.

46:03Romesh Ranganathan:It's Misquoted. This is the first one. All you've got to do is true or false. There's no point going out with a pop star. We're not heroes. We're weirdos. I really hope that it's something I've not said, but I feel like I probably said it. Guardian 2019.

46:20Loyle Carner:Jesus.

46:24Romesh Ranganathan:I don't think that's that bad. It's all right.

46:27Loyle Carner:I'm saying we like I'm one of them. We're not heroes. We're just like you.

46:33Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, there is a bit of that. Us pop stars, you know? I don't think I helped it with the delivery. Yeah. We're not heroes. We're weirdos. I hate that it rhymes a bit as well. Okay, next one. I mean, okay. I stand out like a black man on a hockey pitch. Yeah, that's me. That's you. Stand out. Very rude one. Quote there. I can't imagine. I can't imagine. If you'd not got that. okay next one I've been carrying my past in a Tesco bag dreams weighed heavy till the handles sag that's not me I'm so pissed off with you can I just tell you something Loyal is a frustrated rapper and every time we do something no you Loyal oh I see oh yeah I've forgotten that he tries to like show that he's got some skills we we wrote We actually wrote an animation a while ago about this guy that was trying to get into rapping.

47:35Romesh Ranganathan:And Ben was so excited about putting his bars in the script. And yet here... But you didn't let me do it. You rewrote them. And then you actually, in the end, got someone else to do it. Yeah, I did. I got Michael Payne to do it. Just because it's better to get a qualified rapper, isn't it? Than like two idiots. So you're saying you don't... What do you think of this? Let's break this bar. Because Ben wrote it. Loyal wrote it. Dissect. I mean, let's dissect it. I've been carrying my past in a Tesco bag. Let's just stop there. I mean, it's deep. Thank you. For you? If it's your life, you know. Yeah, I get it.

48:06Romesh Ranganathan:But what does that mean? Because this is, can I tell you my issue with this line? It's one of those things that sounds like it's profound. But it isn't. But actually, if you apply any scrutiny, it doesn't make any fucking... Well, let's find out. Okay. So what do you mean I'm carrying my pasta in a Tesco bag? What does that mean? It's like all of my memories are in... In what? A sort of disposable bag. But what that is... Come on, that's deep.

48:33Romesh Ranganathan:I don't think it's bad. Yeah.

48:35Loyle Carner:I know you. It's not bad. I've been carrying my past in a Tesco's bag.

48:40Romesh Ranganathan:So to me, what that is like, if somebody like, this to me is like, this bar works if you're homeless. Right. Like you're carrying all your possessions that you've gathered together in a Tesco bag. Do you know what I mean? But aren't we all homeless in our minds? What does that mean? I don't know. I don't know exactly.

48:58Loyle Carner:That's the, now I see what you mean. I was really on your side. I think you know what I mean?

49:04Romesh Ranganathan:That's what I'm talking about. It's just sort of say profound shit. That's my whole bag. I've been making that. That's my whole thing. Dreams weighed heavy till the handle sag. Now that I'm slightly more on board with actually. So the bag has got your dreams in it. Or your past. Your dreams are so heavy that it's a burden. Yeah, I suppose in a way it's like I probably have two bags when I think about it now. One in each hand. And that one of them's heavy. it's like like like justice of the scales one of them is my memory do you mean scales of justice yes

49:37Romesh Ranganathan:rust it's no i'm i don't know i'm not i can't read it oh there was like i was just i was just like

49:43Loyle Carner:trying to think of something you could know if you want yeah go on no no let's do it no no no

49:48Romesh Ranganathan:come on no no because he's already maybe sing once yeah oh yeah so you do that kind of thing here's the next one everyone's like he's changed and it's like yeah fucking hell I hope so I was a loser it's not far off but that's not me is it in 2019

50:11Romesh Ranganathan:the same one it's the same article yeah that was what is it everyone's like he's changed and it's like yeah fucking hell I hope so I was a loser I'm not a hero Just a weirdo Okay, this is the last one When you put something beautiful out into the world It's not yours anymore, not really Probably It's actually Bandit Healer, the dad dog in Bluey Perfect Apparently that's your favourite show It's basically me Would you ever want to be in Bluey? I'd want to write on Bluey But would you want to be a voice in Bluey? Yeah we should like put it out there like guys get him in okay that's the end of that game do you want to have a look yes please you seem a bit rattled but are you not happy with the we're not heroes of weirdos

51:08Loyle Carner:no no that's fine I'm just

51:10Romesh Ranganathan:I mean the research's not always bang on so I'm sorry if any of these are wrong then no what does that mean what does that mean no no no what do you mean no no no that's just Georgie does, my wife actually does the research for this, so it's her fault. But I think they're bang on. I think they are bang on. I don't know if they're bang on. They're not always bang on. Because he was looking at them like... They're not always bang on. You think they're bang on. They are bang on. They are definitely bang on. Let's just unpack this a little bit. Bit of a politician. You've asked your wife, the mother of your children, to help out with this, right?

51:45Romesh Ranganathan:And then the second Ben starts to question it, You just cut her loose and throw her under the bus. She did pick quite mean quotes. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, Georgie. It's fine. She ain't going to watch this issue. Okay. Can we talk a bit about Mint, please? Yeah. So this is a new BBC drama that you're acting in, quite a big part in. Now, first thing, it says there's something I want to take issue with actually if you don't mind so I read the article about Mint and it said describe the story and your kind of your role in it is you kind of shake things up your arrival and it said acting I think it said something like acting debut or newcomer to acting and that's where I take issue because as you know you acted in Reluctant Landlord, didn't you?

52:48Loyle Carner:Mm-hmm.

52:49Romesh Ranganathan:You played sort of moody customer. Customer seven. Yeah. It wasn't customer seven. Six. How did it come about you getting the part in Mint? I met Charlotte,

53:04Loyle Carner:the director.

53:04Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah.

53:05Loyle Carner:Just at the market. I saw her from afar and I was like, oh, I'm such a big fan of it because she made a film called Scrapper. Right. With a guy called Harris Dickinson in it and I know him and I'm a fan of his his and to be a director sometimes you're behind the camera so no one really knows what you look like yeah how did you know what she looks like i think i had um i'm friends with another director called molly manning walker and they're friends i think she must have posted on instagram or something so i just i just i'd seen her and i was like i loved your film i didn't think much of it but then the same day i'd been emailed about this thing but not like yeah not not not because i bumped into her right i just she'd already kind of sent someone had sent over like a casting for

53:41Romesh Ranganathan:this thing but but did they were you open for acting jobs at that stage or did it just come

53:46Loyle Carner:to you because they like the look really i think they just had known it was something i used to do right you know when i was at school and uh yeah like i i went through loads of auditions for it i guess i had to keep it was with the bbc and they just didn't believe that i could do it yeah so she's quite a high profile thing i guess so but it was it's more like yeah it was just yeah it was cool yeah are you done on it now yeah like the the audition process was cool but the actual, the process of shooting, it was like profound situation for me. I really loved it. I found it really, yeah, I found it unbelievable, like completely different to working on your show, if I'm honest.

54:19Loyle Carner:It was like really professional and it just was.

54:22Romesh Ranganathan:What do you, what does that, what do you mean? What? What do you mean? No, I'm joking. No, it was like, it just was, it was a crazy thing. No, that's real acting though, isn't it? I mean, what I mean is that's like. What, your? No, your, your, like Mint is real acting.

54:35Loyle Carner:Yeah, it was scary, but it was nice to be like, to be a complete rookie at something like you know like after doing something else and it was like always a dream of mine to be in something maybe or direct something yeah yeah but to be able to do it a little bit later in like after a career you know of music yeah just to be able to appreciate it do you get nervous

54:54Romesh Ranganathan:yeah yeah I was super nervous as soon as they say action it's terrifying

54:56Loyle Carner:yeah yeah yeah and you forget how to walk yeah yeah

54:59Romesh Ranganathan:that thing of like forgetting how to walk and say simple words yeah and then also what I find is I often do my best work when the camera's not on me yeah okay we're out of time aren't we fuck you got it really actually already yeah that's what I mean that's what I'm saying fuck wow it's because this moment took so god damn long okay so it's supposed to be a bit right at the beginning it's like fifth quarter of an hour yep it's fine okay this is I imagine this is the antithesis of everything you're about but the team have decided we need to have some sort of viral moment they want a viral moment or an exclusive or we can take a selfie and you let me post the caption and the suggested caption is loyal and Romy MC new album comes soon.

55:42Romesh Ranganathan:I'll go with that I think.

55:49Romesh Ranganathan:I don't know if I've won that. No I do, I do. Right, should we do it? Are you being serious? Wherever you want. Where are we posting? Wherever you want. Either one, it's up to you guys. Should I put it on my Instagram?

55:58Loyle Carner:Yeah sure, because we can't talk about the James Bond thing or anything now right?

56:01Romesh Ranganathan:What James Bond thing?

56:03Loyle Carner:What? You send it in an email? being like oh you can say like an exclusive thing but then you said that you knew about the James Bond thing what James Bond thing well I'm gonna be James Bond oh come on are you gonna be James Bond real yeah real but when when does this come out because it's not obviously not announced yet but maybe it's like three weeks you're gonna be James Bond yeah Ben obviously Ben must have mentioned it to your team did he mention it to you it might have been Lewis

56:30Romesh Ranganathan:maybe he told Lewis

56:32Loyle Carner:who's not those there's another woman Zoe Maybe, yeah. The woman who's at the door. Yeah. Yeah, she knows about it. That's what she was the one who must have emailed. Are you guys fucking with me? Are you fucking with me? No, that's why you guys sent it to me in an email. What are you talking about? Well, there's your exclusive. Can we... Are you winding me up? No, I don't understand. I don't understand. You sent me an email saying, like, what was an exclusive, but then you said something that obviously would be an exclusive that I couldn't say. But I think it's getting announced in the next couple weeks anyway, so you could just say...

57:03Romesh Ranganathan:Are you winding me up? No.

57:07Loyle Carner:so weird why why do you think so weird about this but when can we put it out why i imagine this getting announced in the next couple days is this real why the fuck are we talking about men we fucking we've been trying fucking otolenghi versus supermarket shit yeah i regret the game now yeah just go for it no are you really yeah leave it in

57:33Romesh Ranganathan:You're wise enough.

57:41Romesh Ranganathan:That was so good. Thanks. Holy shit. How convincing was he? Oh, you weren't convinced. I hadn't received it. It was because I hadn't received it. I thought I would have known. Oh, okay. Yeah. You could do it though. Bobby James Bond. Yeah. Amen. I don't know if I want it though. I was in the... In the run-in for it. I wasn't in the running for it why you can't even how can you do it Ron can you do give me your Bond how would you do Bond sorry sorry you think I just want to pick you up on something you think it's so ridiculous that I would be James Bond that when I said I wasn't in the running for it that made you laugh the fact that I'd have to deny it even made you laugh I don't think it's so ridiculous they ran odds in fact but Will can you look up odds for James Bond because I think I'm 3000 to 1 to be the next James Bond just get whilst Will does that can I just hear you give any line you want but also just to put that in context so is Ryland what odds did you say you were?

58:46Romesh Ranganathan:I thought I was 3000 to 1 I think Michael Rich is 3000 to 1 as well if you can't find it

58:51Loyle Carner:it certainly goes down to 1000 where it's David Beckham

58:55Romesh Ranganathan:David Beckham yeah

58:57Loyle Carner:he'd be great Would he?

58:59Romesh Ranganathan:5 ,000?

59:00Loyle Carner:He's on here for some reason. Gemma Collins.

59:03Romesh Ranganathan:Gemma Collins is 5 ,000 to 1.

59:07Loyle Carner:Jack Whitehall.

59:08Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, he could do it. So far, I've got to be honest with you, you're the best one out of that list. What are you talking about?

59:16Loyle Carner:Jack Whitehall, Gemma Collins. Dwayne Johnson. Dwayne Rock Johnson?

59:19Romesh Ranganathan:No. No, he can't do it. I want to see Roms. What do you want me to do? You can make up any line. Just give me, like, I can give you one. Yeah, just give me a classic. Do you want to have a go? I'm not going to have a go. You're not going to have a go?

59:33Loyle Carner:Already in my audition.

59:36Romesh Ranganathan:What did you have to say?

59:37Loyle Carner:I thought you were going to give it to me there.

59:39Romesh Ranganathan:I prefer my answer short and my exit silent. Now tell me where is the debt end? It's quite a long time. What about like a shake and not stir? That's too obvious though, isn't it? Too obvious? Yeah, I know. I don't want to do a whole fucking monologue It's just two lines Ron Give me one line I'm not doing Bond You said you wanted to be Bond So I prefer my answer short And my exit silent Sorry? I prefer my answer short And my exit silent Now tell me where the detonator is What's the line again? I prefer my answer short And my exit silent now tell me where the detonator is let me tell you this i prefer my answers short and my exit silent now tell me where the detonator is that's hard i actually thought that was

1:00:45Loyle Carner:let me tell you this have i got it i like the tell it was a great bit of improv yeah i just

1:00:50Romesh Ranganathan:thought i'd add a little bit of like rough it up a little bit let me tell you this i was going to had a c*** at the end but it's not really his style is it? Please give it up. Oh, karma, mate. That was so good, man. If you've enjoyed this episode of The Romesh Rangan 8th and Show, make sure you follow wherever you get your podcasts. Apple, Spotify, YouTube, all the big ones and you can enjoy more great content like this. And in fact, I'll go further to say even if you didn't enjoy this episode, just follow anyway for shits and giggles. And on the Thursday episode, we're going to be taking questions from viewers and listeners.

1:01:24Romesh Ranganathan:Oh. So that's exciting, isn't it? It's interesting. Yeah. And if you've got an interesting story or a question for my mum and I or even like a family dilemma you'd like us to help you with, please do get in touch via our email address podcast at rangaby.com or you can voice note or text on this number. 07731 6233 55. I'm Ramesh Ranganathan and this has been the Ramesh Ranganathan Show. What a narcissist. See you next time.

1:01:52Loyle Carner:Oh, shut up, Ramesh. I was so ready to bare myself, man. I haven't had my glasses. I brought my glasses and everything.