Shania Twain On Harry Styles, Losing Her Voice & Country Music

24:31Romesh Ranganathan:That's it. Yeah. I really thought, well, you know, I'm, I can, I really think that I could make a living at it and pay my own bills and feed myself. and not have to rely on anybody else. I can do that because I can live very, very frugally. I'm good at that. I can camp. I can do. I was self-sufficient, and we come from such a basic, rustic background that it was very doable, I thought, with my voice. And I could always have a side job. It was all possible. Yeah. But being a star, unlikely. You know when they talk about things that add to your happiness, right? You know, I think when I became a comedian, I don't think anything in my career that's happened since television or whatever has added to my happiness as much as being able to pay for the weekly groceries with comedy.

25:22Romesh Ranganathan:Like that blew my mind, right? The fact that you could pay for your electric doing the thing that you really love doing. I don't think it gets better than that. You get all of the extra stuff. Do you know what I mean? It's the independence though that you're talking about. It's that independence. it is the reward of pushing yourself to do something that isn't likely going to make you rich. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I mean, how many rich comedians do you know? The chances. Yeah, yeah. How many rich, you know, how many rich bar singers do you know? Yeah, yeah. It's just like, this is not, you're not out there to, you know, it's what makes you happy, I think, when you're a creative anyway.

26:03or when you're somebody who has committed themselves or is loyal to their talent so they don't abandon their talent for the conventional job.

26:15Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. And they stick to it. The reward is, yeah, if I can pay my bills, maybe afford to have a child. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, one thing at a time, if I can afford those things, that is happiness. Yeah. You know, and it is sort of like it is kind of like it's like groceries is a very good one. I remember really even till I even after I got my recording contract, I mean, I just didn't start making money right away. I was still counting. You know, I was still buying the bruised apples and, you know, I wasn't buying the I was always going to the the discounts. shelves and stuff like that and being very careful so but in the end uh how many apples do you need to buy in the end well i've oh listen i'll take you know an apple a good apple a day and that's all i don't need 50 apples a day you know so you you get satisfied earlier on i think when you are somebody that really is just driving for that independence yeah that's where the happiness is so with that in mind and you thankfully against against as you said it's unlikely became a megastar that's that's that's fair to say and now you've got songs that are emblazoned in people's life experiences there are people that you know there's you know some particular songs of yours that are part of people the tapestry of people's lives when you come to perform live do you always approach performing those because i always wonder about musicians who've had to perform certain songs over and over again.

27:57Romesh Ranganathan:Are you able to go to it like you're playing it for the first time or do you think, well, I better give them this one? I first thought you were going to say, did you ever think there would be tattoos of your song? Yeah, I have seen tattoos of my songs on people. I never get bored of the music. I never listen to my own music at home. as a, I wouldn't go so far as saying, oh yeah, I just can't wait to get home and listen to my own record. I don't need to do that. But, and I'm not touring all the time. So it's almost like every time I'm doing a tour or a show, I'm revisiting the music. Right. And I've got enough songs that I can, you know, this is kind of the luxury too.

28:44Yeah. I can switch them out. That's how I feel about it. And I do variations of things. Sometimes I'll do things more acoustically, and that changes it up musically for me. And there's always someone that's got a great story about one of my songs that makes me think of that song differently.

29:03Romesh Ranganathan:Right. From then on as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this one lady, she said to me, when I was giving birth, I put, I had, from this moment on, playing on repeat. at all i never thought of it that way but you know i just are like wow yeah yeah yeah that's incredible right because she's thinking when the when the baby is born when this baby comes out from this moment on life has begun yeah i'm thinking wow you're the brilliant one not me i certainly didn't think of it and with that much depth and and so now i just think the song is more powerful than it ever was when I wrote it. Right. Yeah. Takes on new meanings.

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30:23Romesh Ranganathan:There's even on-site perks at Wimbledon, like access to the incredible views from the Amex Pavilion on the Hill. Do summer differently with Amex. Search Amex experiences to learn more. T's and C's apply. that's the sound of zero sugar 200 milligrams of caffeine and the power to burn body fat storm energy for life storm energy blend helps boost metabolism which in combination with exercise and a healthy diet helps burn fat this product alone does not produce weight loss individual results may vary um now we've got a question from my mom she's she's sent it as a voice note i always have to say this i don't know what this question is okay okay she's a Laura unto herself.

31:04Romesh Ranganathan:So let's see what she said. I want to know what mum said. Hi Shania, this is Ramesh from Shanti. You always look incredible. I have such an iconic sense of style. Love the leopard print. Hope my son has made an effort with his outfit today. Okay. Is there any item of clothing or accessory you put on instantly makes you feel great. I still listen to the song Endless Love with Lionel Richie. So beautiful. Enjoy staying in the UK. Have a wonderful time. And I'd love to see you. You take care. Bye-bye. Mum. It was a very matter-of-fact tone to that. she was hitting her points man she's like I want to make sure I say everything that felt like a bullet pointed voice note the leopard print she was hitting that's adorable is there something that I put on that instantly makes me feel great I would say silk really

32:22Romesh Ranganathan:were you not expecting that no do you know what I was trying to And if it's a leopard print silk. Can I tell you what? So normally, if you're interviewing someone, I think, I want to relate to your answer. So then you said silk. And I thought, have I ever? Then I said, have I ever worn silk? I don't think I have. I've never allowed silk into my life. Okay. Well, you need. So that's going to be a good thing. So silk. Yeah. You could have like a silk blend t-shirt. Okay. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't have to be anything extravagant. You don't have to wear lingerie or anything. No, no. I would.

32:56Romesh Ranganathan:to be clear. Well, you could wear silk boxers. Yeah, there you go. Nobody would even know it. No. But you'd know from the way I carried myself. But you would know it. I think you'd know. It would make you feel great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Everyone would be going, wow, I think you look like you feel great today. You must be wearing silk boxers. I'm just going, well, she's got a different energy about you. Have you guys worn silk? Have you all worn silk? I've never worn silk anything in my life. Will? I don't know. Am I at it? Yeah. I bought sick boxes. You bought sick boxes. Why are you ashamed of it?

33:29Romesh Ranganathan:Like you're admitting something. I don't know if it's a hundred percent. Yeah. You know, I would say some people think they're wearing silk when they're really wearing satin. Right. Yeah. But silk is a luxury fabric. You know, it's not, it's fine and it's, I mean, it's a spider that makes silk. Is it? Is it? Spiders. Is it silk spiders? It's a spider, I think. Okay. No, a worm. Worm. Silkworm, yeah. Oh, spiders and snakes, whatever. Yeah, yeah. It's one of those horrible creatures. You know? Makes silk, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So listen to me acting like I know everything about silk. No. And then I think it comes from a spider.

34:17Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah. I was thinking, you know, silky, no, you're right, silkworms. Yeah, because silk does make you feel great. It's light and it's so many patterns and colors and very worth wearing. Okay, I'm going to consider bringing silk into my life. I think we all should. Now, congratulations are in order. Twelve dates at Wembley Stadium alongside Harry Styles. How excited are you? I'm really excited. I'm mostly flattered. because it was a personal invitation to be Harry's guest, and that is very special. He and I, we met backstage, small little venue, and we exchanged numbers. We hit it off. He was just very cool and easy.

35:07And then he texted me a little while later and said, it's my mother's birthday coming up, and she's the reason why I know your music and love it so much and love you. so would you reach out to her on her birthday and wish her happy birthday so he gives me her number I call her up I sing her happy birthday you called her? yeah

35:25Romesh Ranganathan:okay wow that's big it meant it registered with me that he would you know because I don't think celebrities you know they don't really ask each other favors very often it's not like you say you know hey buddy we met once but because we're both stars could you you know come to my kid's birthday or whatever or go to my, you know. But he did that because it really, he knew that that would mean a lot to his mom and that it meant a lot to him. And I did not have my mother through my success at all because my mother was gone long before I made it. She's been gone since I was 22. So she never saw any of my success.

36:06And what I would have given for her to have been there, for me to give back to her, I mean, we really struggled a lot when I was a kid and took, you know, the sacrifices were great. So to have been able to buy her a new vehicle or a new dress, anything, and just for her to be there and for me to have that relationship going into my life. So Harry's had her all this time and she's been able to experience the success with him and to be there and be a grounding factor. so it was really I was happy to do it in more ways than one and we just stayed connected and so I think you just felt you know my mum and I want you to come in and do Wembley with us

37:00Romesh Ranganathan:kind of thing amazing to be doing it at Harry Styles and also in an organic way this is not like you know you're not telling the story of like some record label thought would be a good idea to pay, this is like a real, it's a real thing. It's a real thing. It's a, as far as I know, no, I'm sure it is, I know it. And, you know, our exchanges were so, we were both very excited at the idea. But also Wembley, sort of iconic to be doing Wembley and then to be doing 12 nights. How does, how much have you engaged with that? It's going to be massive, right? It'll be massive. I imagine that a lot of, I mean, that's a lot of people.

37:34So I would imagine several people are going to more than one night even, right? Which is really great because I think as you go and this is what I'm imagining, that people would be building up each night with the vibe and I think getting more and more into it as the dates go on.

38:03Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. so that's exciting I will change it up every night oh really so it won't be the same show every night then it won't be in every way yeah so that I think is important because I was thinking you know there are going to be people that go maybe they'll go to show one or maybe show six sure sure sure again and then maybe show ten you know so I was keeping that in mind so I think the excitement will build as we go as well I mean for Harry I think it's just going to be crazy right off the bat because, you know, he's on top of the world and it's such a frenzy and he's, yeah, he's just hairy, isn't he?

38:42And this is his home. And that's another compliment because I'm invited to his home country and I'm the guest, which I like.

38:49Romesh Ranganathan:It's difficult because stand-up comedy makes that very, very difficult. Like, you know, sometimes if you're doing a matinee, people don't realize that you're doing the same material again. Somebody will say, you'll meet someone outside the matinee and they'll go, I'm staying for the second show to see what you do there. Right. Well, that was it. You're going to be incredibly disappointed. Sorry, bud. Sorry, bud. And you've actually performed on stage with Harry at Coachella. Is that right? Yeah, he invited me to Coachella. Yeah. It was a very casual thing. Hey, I'm going to be performing in L.A.

39:24I don't even think he said Coachella. I think he just said I'm doing a show in L.A. and, you know, do you want to come up and sing a couple songs with me? are you anywhere around on this date? And I said, well, I'm actually not anywhere near there on that date, but let's try again another time. And then he was so polite, he didn't put me on the spot. He just let it go for a bit. And then he texted again and said, I really think, you know, something in the effect of I really think this would be great if you could make it. it would mean a lot and I'm like okay well let me really

40:04Romesh Ranganathan:think about how okay Harry I said I wasn't close leave it it was not till quite close that I'm thinking it's Coachella on top of it and let's see how we can make this work but I still I didn't know I said listen okay well what do I wear What is this vibe going to be? And he said, well, just, you know, be you. Just come and be yourself or whatever. He didn't tell me what he was wearing. And when I got on stage, we were practically matching. It was weird. Yeah. It was kind of weird, but everybody did think it was very planned. Oh, yeah, I bet. But it wasn't. I mean, it was planned, but I mean, casually planned.

40:52Romesh Ranganathan:But doing Coachella with Harry Styles, 12 nights at Wembley, like you've done so much do you do you still have things on like a bucket list or aspirations you still want to achieve or do you feel like i'm just doing whatever happens now you know what's your kind of attitude towards all of that i want to write songs um that i produce for artists voices that i love yeah that's my dream that's my dream gig because I'm only one voice and I hear my songs so many different ways and I can never accomplish the directive that I like I'm I have a directive of how I want it sung that I'm not but I'm not that voice yeah like I wrote I wrote from this moment on with Celine Dion in mind I wanted her voice to sing that song, not mine.

41:51And so I wrote it melodically and everything like it could be for Celine Dion. But my then husband, who was my producer said, no, no, no, that's a song we have to keep for your record. And I just thought, oh, like, really, I can always write more songs, but if Celine Dion sang this song, that would be the real dream for me as the writer. and I just don't have the need to always be the one in the spotlight I love to be creative and to be not in the spotlight in fact it was my mother that forced me up on the stage in the first place I'm glad she did but whoo that was part of the difficulty of my childhood getting up on stage as a kid to sing to drunks okay so that dream didn't come true but I'd love that to happen.

42:47I want to find voices that I'm writing the songs for.

42:50Romesh Ranganathan:Right. And then see them come to life in a different way. Especially when I lost my voice because I lost my voice to Lyme's disease and that lasted quite a while. I mean, it must have been terrifying. It was terrible. I lost projection and I won't go into the science of it but it was something that would not ever repair because it was nerve damage. So not the vocal cords, but the nerves, the neurology. And there's a treatment where they did open my neck. Yes. They open your neck from the front. It's open throat surgery. They pull your larynx to the side, and they insert little crutches, little Gore-Tex crutches.

43:43Romesh Ranganathan:Right. And they will be there in 10 ,000 years from now. Long after, you know, they will be there forever. They're permanent. Gore-Tex. Yeah, Gore-Tex. Gore-Tex is like, isn't that what the weatherproof Timberlands with? That's right. Yeah. Yeah, all kinds of outerwear. Yeah, yeah. They've never had Gore-Tex fix when I was a kid. That's why I got so much frostbite. Oh, I wish they had Gore-Tex. Anyway, now I got Gore-Tex all right. I got it in my throat. So little crutches, and they stabilize where the nerve atrophy is, make to compensate for the nerve atrophy. Okay, so now I'm able to sing live again.

44:29Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. And sustain notes and be loud if I want. My voice is different. You can tell it's kind of like gravelly. I've got a little fry. in there. And do you enjoy that now? I mean, it's nice, right? You've got a different voice, yeah. Yeah, it's added to the character of my singing. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I love my new voice. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, what else am I, what am I to do, hate my new voice? It's like, no. I can sing again. I love my new voice, you know? I'm even saying, you know, lucky me because the Lyme's disease could have attacked my heart, my brain my my kidneys uh ironically it it attacked my my laryngeal area so yeah you could look at that in any way you want but it wasn't life-threatening i mean that's a blessing yeah yeah uh it was more of a blessing this is your glasses are full how else can i look at that right so okay so now i'm able to sing again so then i get off track definitely i'm now writing for my own recordings right for quite a while i'm like oh yeah you know as long as these vortex crutches don't move yeah you've got 10 000 years of stuff that's it as long as they don't move or end up in my stomach or something uh i will sing yeah i feel like i've really fulfilled a lot of that re-appreciation or new found appreciation for my voice and I'm very happy to be singing my own songs but in the future um it is a dream for me to hear my songs my melodies and my words my voices that I am not yeah yeah and so but that's something you could still do you could go on to do that right I mean that's that's exactly exactly but you know it's where it's really hard though when you're the artist as well and you're doing your own artist thing and then you're you're producing somebody else i'd really like just make that focus for a bit yeah like a project yeah now we've seen in recent years like country is i mean obviously rob beckett and i thanks you're one of our guides through our kind of introduction to country and kind of we went to nashville we wrote a terrible song uh we performed that song in a bar in nashville it's one of the most anxiety inducing things i've ever done but one of the things that we learned is that country has got you know like all genres of music it's got tropes and people that love it are protective of it what we've seen in the last few years is is people from outside of the genre come in and make and and make country albums right obviously beyonce is a famous example post malone did a whole country album which was great what what's your kind of um what's your kind of take on all of that i mean because because one of the things happens in the uk because is that you will it still happens now we will suddenly hear about a country who is absolutely massive but we didn't know about them because country is country is popular with country fans right the the crossover is relatively rare right so so what's your yeah have you have you felt kind of watching all that transpire So the country music that I grew up with, primarily the earliest, earliest country, was my grandparents' country, which was called Country and Western.

47:58Right. So the country was farmer, you know, roll up the sleeves, manual hardworking people. The Western was the more, you know, Texas, south border towns to Mexico music, Tex-Mexican sort of style music. That added minors, minor chords to the music.

48:33Romesh Ranganathan:Right. It added different time signatures, different instrumentation, different vocal blend chords. And they were gunslingers. Right. So this is where the Western comes. Yeah. Now you've got country and Western. Yeah. So there's no difference from that because that was an actual genre name change. Yeah. Right, right, right. Okay. Like it was officially only country. Yeah. Then it was country and Western. Right. And then you've got periods where it's, you know, the big bro country period, and where you've had, you know, country rock. I mean, if you look at a good example, many people have crossed over, but even Elvis Presley.

49:22Okay, he's the king of rock and roll. But, you know, he's also a, you know, he did country songs. So did, look at John Denver. John Denver is a folk artist, pure folk artist. But he made country records. There's a lot of rock art. There's a guy named Conway Twitty. You guys probably haven't heard of this guy. Maybe, I don't know. But he's, that would be more my grandparents, country music. But he was in a rock band before that. Same with Kenny Rogers. He was a rock pop guy before he did country. The Bee Gees made some country songs. Yeah. Olivia Newton-John. She was a pure pop artist. Yeah, yeah.

50:02She made a whole country album.

50:04Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Linda Ronstadt was a touring backup singer for The Eagles. Right. She made a country record. Yeah. So this isn't a new thing then, people. Yeah. It's not a new thing. And I think the genre has gotten very protective maybe or purist in a certain way. not the fans, but maybe the industry because they just don't want to make room maybe for other talent that brings so much to the genre. Where would country music be without the influence of bluegrass? And where would it be without the influence of rock and rockabilly and soul, R &B? Ray Charles I never heard anybody sing country better than Ray Charles Yeah But then do you think it's a thing of like people will be making you're making country for country fans and then somebody comes in and there's an I don't know is there an argument of like being a culture vulture or taking what you want and then you know taking country and doing what you want with it you know is that do you think that's part of the problem?

51:16Alright so Shania says Yeah Now we know about where my glass, where the level of water is in my glass. What better compliment could anyone give any culture but to want to borrow a little bit of it?

51:36Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or dabble in it because it's something that they, even if it's just out of curiosity, I'd be like, yeah, like, you know, cultural exchange days at school. that was so fun. It's like, oh, let me try, you know, the way you guys make cookies. You know, there's nothing, it's like, great, you know, I'm going to try that at home. Yeah. Like whoever said, well, no, you can't try this at home. Yeah. It's our cookies. You know, these are our people's cookies. Don't try our recipe. It's not, it just can't, that's not the way, that's not the way art works. That's not the way music works.

52:18Right. It's music. we're talking about here yeah right it's not it's not our people yeah no i know it's music now yeah

52:25Romesh Ranganathan:i mean it's just been it's been i totally get i agree with you i agree with you but it's just been interesting as somebody uh outside of country to see what the my perception of what the response has been to people coming and and doing it you know so so you're saying right so the culture vulture element is love them and leave them sort of thing or what what's the it's just that i i guess like you know there was all that I my impression was that people going these people are coming in and you know the other artists are coming in and having a go at our music and then going of some like well stealing our thunder maybe like that sort of thing well I mean you know it's not is thievable a word I think so I think it can be if you say yeah yeah you can make it a thing i think it'd be a good song title thievable yeah i mean how can how can oh boy i i'm i'm gonna start rhyming you better stop me right now

53:32so okay i mean how can such a thing be thievable yeah you know how can um there's no such thing as that. I, we all influence each other.

53:46Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. So, and when someone is, like, if somebody does something very Shania-esque, I'm like, that's the greatest compliment ever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not worried about it. Because I'm like, you know what? You, you know, man, I feel like a woman can only be written once. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, so don't, I'm not worried about it. Go ahead and Shania ask all you want. It's not going to steal my thunder. No, no. Like it's all good. Yeah. And so I think, you know, we're meant to inspire each other. I would see it as an inspiration. Yes. Obviously, whoever is dipping into a genre is influenced by that genre and inspired by it.

54:33Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. To want to do that, I think. Yeah. And so I just don't see it the same way, I suppose. That's my Shania way of looking at it. No, we love the Shania way of looking at it. I totally agree with you. Okay, we're going to play a little game now. Uh-oh.

54:52Romesh Ranganathan:It's misquoted. I'm bad at games. This is called misquoted. So I've got five quotes that you may or may not have said. Some of them you said, some of them you didn't. All I want you to do is tell me if you said them, and then leads to a little bit of light chat and ideally an Instagram clip. And you know what? I completely misunderstood when you said misquoted. Yeah. Because I thought you were calling me misquoted. Oh, I see. Now, this is a game for you, little misquoted. Did you or did you not say this? So there's no jeopardy. Okay. Yeah. So here's the first one. Did you, Shania Twain, say this or not?

55:37Romesh Ranganathan:The first thing people say is, do you own wellies? Did you or did you not say that?

55:45Yes, I did. When I went to Glastonbury, people were saying, you may need to bring your wellies.

55:53Romesh Ranganathan:That's absolutely correct. Well done. You did say it. And you were talking about Glastonbury. The Times in 2024, you're talking about Glastonbury, and that's what people ask you. Well done. You're one for one. Yeah, of course I have wellies. I've got all kinds of wellies. I have horses, so. Yeah. Okay, here's your next one. Yeah. I'd love to get everywhere by Segway. No, I did not say that. Sure? I'd love to get everywhere by Segway. Did you say that? No, you didn't say that. You're absolutely right. Do you know what you said? You did say you'd love to get everywhere by something. Do you know what it might have been?

56:29I'd love to get everywhere. Maybe they misunderstood I was saying subway.

56:35Romesh Ranganathan:No, we changed the last word. Yeah. You actually said, I'd love to get everywhere by horse. Of course. Of course by horse. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you've ridden horses in shows, haven't you? I have. And I don't know why I didn't think of that. Because, yes, in a dream world, we would all go everywhere by horse. Yeah. Like, what are we doing? You know, now you can't even ride your horse on the street in case it poops. It's like, of course horses poop. Who cares? The birds are going to come and eat it. And, you know, if you're in the city, the rats will come by and, you know, cars will run over, the sun will dry up, whatever.

57:19It's organic.

57:20Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, my God. What a paradise. We're riding horses. Rats are eating all the horse poo. Beautiful. We're right back. We'll listen instead. Yeah. I'd rather the rats clean up the horse poo than get into our garbage. But, you know, it's true. My horse. Dream life. Okay. So you're two for two. Here's your next one. Did you or did you not say this? Stage fright is a very scarring experience, a terrible panicky feeling. Yes, absolutely. You did say that. I would have said that, yes. Yeah, you said that to The Guardian in 23. You said, but now going from I may never sing again to being where I am, I'm like, in this moment, if I hit a bad note, I'm going to wear that scar as a survival flag.

57:59Exactly.

58:01Romesh Ranganathan:It's like a lion that can roar again, is what you said. So that's lovely. That is very true. Like, so what if I had a bad note? Yeah. It's my free pass. Okay, here's your next one. In Switzerland, I'm always bang on time. Did you or did you not say that? I did not say that because I don't think I would say bang on. You're absolutely correct. You didn't say that. But the actual quote is, in Switzerland, you're more connected to the food you're eating. Well, that is true because, yeah. Just because it's less processed. Yeah. Food is more regulated. Closer to the original ingredient. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

58:41Romesh Ranganathan:You're four for four. So you've got one left. Okay. Did you? I'm good at this game. You're really good. Really good. This is for full house now. So it's exciting time. It's exciting time. What do I win? I already got the leopard print. No, but you get to keep that. So that was a loan up to this point. Okay, so here's your last one. I'm getting less and less inhibited as I age. I like to do goofy things. Did you or did you not say that? I would say that. You did say that. Outside of experimenting with hair color, I would say that I enjoy being fearless. Nothing really scares me. You just got to have fun.

59:13Romesh Ranganathan:And being playful makes me feel more youthful. That was to Haute Living, talking about pink hair. So there you go. Shania Twain, five for five. Congratulations. Shania, we're almost done. You've been... I found God. I know, I know. I know. It's been horrendous. But what we'd like to do is end the podcast on a big moment. And what I'd love to ask you is, would you be able to share the best piece of advice you've ever received? Have you ever received a great piece of advice that you could share with us?

59:51boy I sure have

59:57it's which one do I want to share with you

59:58Romesh Ranganathan:I know I get it you know what I'm saying no I understand we've gone on a journey but what are you willing to share I get that and I understand if you have reservations no I don't I think not that I think you could use advice because I'm sure No, I could, believe me. The best advice I could give anyone, I think, is you just have to be honest. Honesty is everything. Honest. Honest with yourself. Honest with everybody else. And that's it. It's kind of basic and boring as advice, but honesty is the only – that's it. the truth is really does suck sometimes but best to be honest especially for a creative person because oh brother like you need to know the truth yeah you know are you good are you bad are you yeah but that's difficult honestly that sounds simple but that's quite difficult to follow as a rule yep that song was well written by Billy Joel yeah honestly yep okay it's hardly ever heard yes certainly not in my house please can you give it up for our fantastic Shania Twain

1:01:17Romesh Ranganathan:Thank you so much for watching and listening to this episode. Before you go, if you've enjoyed this episode and you've not subscribed, that's a bold decision. Crazy behaviour. Follow and subscribe to The Romesh Ranganathan Show wherever you listen. It helps me, really, like really helps me. It helps the team and it costs you absolutely nothing. We drop episodes every Monday and Thursday. Mondays I'm joined by great guests. Thursdays my mum Shanti joins me to answer your questions and family dilemmas. I'll see you Thursday with mum who, let's face it, is who you're actually here for. If you've got a problem you want to solve or a story you want to share, send it to podcast at rhangabee.com, voice not or text us on 07731 623 355.

1:01:58Romesh Ranganathan:We can't promise good advice, but you might end up on the show. See you soon. Oh, shut up, Roman.

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