Take That: 90s Regrets, Songwriting Pressures & The Circus Tour Returns

8:10Howard Donald:I was hoping it was going to be a Coravan then, but I'm going to hide my disappointment. No, it's fine. Well, you mentioned it outwardly, so.

8:17Romesh Ranganathan:Yes. I would say slightly.

8:19Howard Donald:The ship sailed on that one a little bit. Oh, yeah. What's a Coravan? A Coravan, it means if it's an old bottle of wine and I've just want one glass out of it, I can get one glass out of it and it still stays sealed for like another few years or something. For years? Yeah, for years, yeah. Oh, that's good. So then when you open a special bottle. That's why I was excited. Oh, shit. You can always sell it on eBay like all the other gifts. And also things... It's true. It's true. But also, things like dessert wine, which you often only want one glass. A caravan's really good for that. Yeah.

8:58Romesh Ranganathan:I'm going to be honest with you. I'd not heard that word until you first said it. So thank you. Are you into wine? If you're not laughing, you're learning. Are you into wine? Well, currently I'm not drinking at the moment. Not for... Just because... Because it's a show? No, it's just because I'm a massive prick when I'm drunk. He's in a play down the road. Yeah. He's an actor.

9:19Howard Donald:There you go. Here comes the...

9:25Howard Donald:I did warn him. Do you know who he is? I warned him.

9:31Romesh Ranganathan:Thank you, mate. Thank you, mate. Yeah, I'm an actor. I'm an actor. that. Not according to the reviews or any of the audience feedback.

9:42Mark Owen:I've been that takes a lot of balls to do that.

9:46Romesh Ranganathan:Have you had reviews? Yes. Yeah. Okay. They've been good. I was being facetious. Okay. Selfish. Because some people don't like to read reviews. Well, you're not supposed to. You're not supposed to. But what they do is they, in order to sell more tickets, they put quotes from the reviews on the theatre front. Yes. Oh, yeah, on the window. Pictures. Yeah. And then it sort of says. How long is it? Branganathan was there. He's on the front. He turned on punctual. He's all right. Punctual. Bottomed up his costume. That's one of the top ones. That was in the mail. So you can check that out. Now, Mark, we got you a Tennessee road trip guide.

10:23Romesh Ranganathan:Did you get some inside information? Well, apparently your dream is to do like an RV trip along. It is? Yeah.

10:30Gary Barlow:And do you know where to? No, I don't actually. Go on, tell me. I want to go across America and go to Graceland. This is perfect, isn't it? It's perfect. Actually perfect. Really? Yeah. Am I your favourite? Pardon?

10:44Romesh Ranganathan:Are you my favourite? What? You're my favourite mark? Are you my favourite member of the band? Let's just see how this goes.

10:55Gary Barlow:It's perfect. Good, I'm glad. Have you spent much time in an RV? when I caravans when I was young Blackpool Will one of those standing caravans didn't go anywhere I haven't driven one have you done it

11:16Romesh Ranganathan:I've done a bit of filming in an RV am I imagining it's going to be is it hard it can be challenging I like it, I think there's something romantic about it I'm going to be honest with you. My issue is an issue that you might not have. I am what's called a heimscheisser. Have you heard of that? No. Sheisser sounds like shit. Well, that's exactly what it is. It's somebody who only really is comfortable shitting at home. Oh, yeah. Or in a secure facility. So an RV, I mean, I don't think you should. I don't think you should. I think you should stop, really. Do you know what I mean? But I find not being near a fully plumbed-in toilet for a long amount of time are quite anxiety-inducing.

11:57Romesh Ranganathan:Yes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I get that. Showering.

12:00Howard Donald:You've been to Graceland?

12:01Romesh Ranganathan:Me? Yeah. No.

12:03Howard Donald:No. I thought you'd have been on your show. I've been to Graceland. I'm surprised you've not been to Graceland.

12:09Gary Barlow:What's really, when we were in Nashville, I said, oh, we're quite close to Graceland. And the driver said, yeah, you're about an hour. But I didn't go. Because it's your dream. Because it's my dream to go across.

12:21Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, you want to do it properly?

12:22Gary Barlow:I wanted, like.

12:22Romesh Ranganathan:Got you, got you, got you. Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense. Well, look.

12:26Gary Barlow:I haven't been to Nashville since. and a lot of the time I think, I wish I'd just gone that hour and just gone and visited it.

12:32Romesh Ranganathan:But now I've got this. But you will do it. Have you got like a date locked in that you're thinking about doing it?

12:38Gary Barlow:No. I've asked Emma, my wife. She said she'll probably kill me if she came across for eight days to try and do something like that. Then I asked my kids. They're not up for it. It's not going so well, is it? It's not going so well.

12:52Romesh Ranganathan:I'll be honest with you, this dream story's got quite dark.

12:56Gary Barlow:Doing it on my own feels a bit lonely. Yeah, sure. Although then the house shies thing is maybe... It's easier. Easier. And then I thought my dog Arnold would take it. But the dog said no. Dog said no. But it will happen. And I will use this book and I will send you a picture.

13:13Mark Owen:Great. Thank you. I'd love to do that. But not to Graceland. I want to go all around Scotland in one. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I love Scotland. I think I've got to do it. You've mentioned doing that before, actually. Yeah, I've got to do it. Even over like 10, two weeks. What, in a van like that? In a RV thing? I've got like this Mercedes, which has got like four, it's a four berth Mercedes. He's the car collector. Oh, really? Yeah. So I've got that. So it'd be a really good trip. Oh, wow.

13:39Romesh Ranganathan:Am I into cars? A little bit, I guess. Yeah. I'm not a collector. Howard picked us up once.

13:45Gary Barlow:What was that car that we tried to lift the gig in? 59 Cadillac. 59 Cadillac. Straight off stage. Straight off stage into the 59 Cadillac. All steamed up.

13:54Howard Donald:like Batman this car we all started driving down

13:59Gary Barlow:we couldn't see anything because obviously nobody had no air conditioning we couldn't see we were all wiping the windows down but we made it didn't we

14:09Mark Owen:yeah we made it we made it

14:10Romesh Ranganathan:now the circus tour is back 17 years

14:15Mark Owen:17 years wow and that tour is like

14:17Romesh Ranganathan:I mean by the way extra dates have been added you can still get tickets but that tour is it's iconic, right? Did you see it? I didn't come. No.

14:28Mark Owen:But his ex-girlfriend did.

14:29Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she loved it. Yeah.

14:32Gary Barlow:She said it was iconic.

14:36Romesh Ranganathan:No, but like what I would say is like it's one of those tours where, you know, every now and again you get a tour that everybody's talking about, you know, because of the, and we've done, we've done, we've gone a bit circus themed here actually. I hope you like it. We've got the juggling balls. That's not normal this. I mean, it's not normal full stop. but I mean it's not normal for the podcast. We've done that for you. Oh, nice. Me and Mark.

14:58Mark Owen:My wife's had to call up some tea towels. And the elephant. Me and Mark.

15:02Romesh Ranganathan:The elephant, yeah.

15:03Howard Donald:We had kids that year so we know how old that tour is. Yeah. We've got the girls to prove it, haven't we? We've got the lines to prove it as well. Yeah, that's true.

15:12Romesh Ranganathan:So how does it feel to be doing that tour? Is it a different proposition going into doing that now from 17 years ago?

15:20Mark Owen:Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, 17 years ago. I mean, it was a very physical show back then. So we're going into rehearsals pretty much in April and we were obviously going to look at it and we're going to try and keep it as original as possible. And I always felt like when we did the circus tour first time round, it was kind of over too quick. The production was so massive. And I think we did 20 dates in all stadiums. and I just thought this is over and done with too quick and there was a lot of people that couldn't get a ticket so I didn't get to see it and I'm really happy that it's back. I almost feel like there's some unfinished business there that we want to finish off.

16:05Mark Owen:That was the biggest surprise I think

16:07Gary Barlow:was the fact that so many people said that they hadn't seen it the first time around. People like you. Yeah, I'd love to come. first time yeah um i'll be wearing this yeah because yeah when you do that many shows you feel like you've managed to reach everybody yeah and it's something we've been discussing for a while because it's a it's a bit of a it's like to to repeat at all we didn't know anyone else who'd

16:34Howard Donald:ever done it yeah and so we that felt exciting um and we because we've we've had this idea for a few years haven't we and we thought this is maybe the year to do it you know not wait for like 20 Just do it when you want to do it. So like Mark said, we're going to try and keep it as original as we can with a few upgrades. Right. The upgrades aren't ours, by the way.

16:57Romesh Ranganathan:But I mean, when you did the tour then and like doing the tour now, because obviously like you don't need me to tell you this and everyone says this, you've been so phenomenally successful over such a long time. And that's really, you know, I think people can appreciate how hard that is, you know, for you to be operating at the level you have done. there are challenges that people don't even know about even once you've watched a documentary i'm sure there's challenges that you won't know about are you able to because it can be hard and i know we joked about how easy to but it is it is there's lots of other elements to it that are difficult and staying up there and you know meeting audiences are you able to appreciate it like are there points when like when you were doing it back then do you ever get to a point where you're you've found yourself taking it for granted or are you able to like look out at these crowds that you're so consistently being able to command to come and turn up to see you?

17:46Romesh Ranganathan:Are you able to look out there and go, this is pretty amazing? Are you able to smell the roses, I guess, is the question.

17:51Howard Donald:Yeah, because I felt like the 90s had definitely, by the end of it, wasn't appreciating what was happening.

17:58Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah.

17:58Howard Donald:And so when we came back, you're fully, fully appreciating it because it's like, oh, my God, I never thought I'd get this again. And I think nowadays it's more of a reminder of, I mean, even like today, you could view it oh we've got to do some interviews today but it's all great fun we're together you know so we're safe we feel safe in our environment and it's it's just about that just remembering that like you know we could be actually doing a real job yeah and we're not we

18:26Gary Barlow:get to do this yeah yeah yeah and it is you get totally looked after you know for those uh few weeks you know you eat well yeah um and you know you get to travel around and meet people and perform songs and the energy of the people around us we have a lot of the same people around us who have not we've known for many many years uh worked with us for years so it is a real family atmosphere uh when we're on tour and i think i think we enjoy that but at the same time we're making a new record which is really exciting. So we're in that process of doing a couple of things at once. So it's always nice to hang out with your mates.

19:08Romesh Ranganathan:How do you travel, by the way? Are you all in one big bus?

19:11Howard Donald:Private plane. Makes sense. We're only in the UK this time. So, yeah, cars usually.

19:19Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, really? Yeah.

19:20Howard Donald:Okay.

19:21Romesh Ranganathan:So you don't have to worry about Heimscheiser. No.

19:26Howard Donald:Isn't that funny? I've never heard that before. Yeah, yeah.

19:28Romesh Ranganathan:It's a real thing. Yeah. I know, I believe it. I believe it.

19:32Mark Owen:I get that. It's like, you know, you'd rather touch cloth than actually stop at a service station. You know what I mean? It is like. I mean, I have done in an emergency and it stays with me to this day.

19:42Romesh Ranganathan:You've got to go, you've got to go, yeah. I'm not going to lie to you. You know what I mean? It was horrible. I was in need of crying. So what's the tour dynamics? Is there like a dad of the tour that kind of looks after everybody? Between us? Yeah, between you guys, yeah.

19:56Mark Owen:No, I mean, we have a tour manager called Linda who looks after our, you know, looks after needs that I need, you know, if it's guest lists and stuff like that. Yeah, a toilet. Yeah, a toilet, yeah. I mean, luckily now we can have our family with us whenever, you know, whenever possible, you know, obviously if they're not in school. It's great to, although it's a little bit more difficult for Mark because he's in LA and he's, you know, to get his family across, it's more difficult. I think it's a lot harder for Mark being here in the UK as is this week of doing promo and stuff because, you know, he doesn't have that, you know, we can just make a phone call and somebody can be here.

20:34Mark Owen:Yeah. Whereas he can't, you know, that's it. Yeah. We can have our family whenever, except for Mark. Yeah.

20:40Gary Barlow:Yeah, they're coming over though. Yeah. Oh, they're circus, yeah. Yeah, they're excited. They're excited. They are, my family, especially my kids now, really excited about seeing this show because they've never seen it before. Yeah. But they're at that age now where they want to bring the mates and come and see it. Oh, that's good. And my daughter now, Willow, is really into music and so she's enjoying being on tour and just getting a feel for that as well. So it's going to be great for them.

21:05Howard Donald:And I think in general, definitely the last two or three tours we've done, it's like, it's all good. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean by that? Because if you think about our tour, especially the last time we did circus, we were still kind of growing into being a band again as adults this time. we weren't quite definitely not where we are now just like everything's a bit we take our music very very seriously we still it always feels like the first day of school with music but things like touring it's all good I think there's like

21:41Romesh Ranganathan:it's a little bit of a thing of when you're starting out and this is my experience obviously I'm not operating at your level but when you start out it's about the grind you're trying to get your profile up there and you're trying to and and you're you're almost not enjoying each of these things that comes along because the goalposts move and then you're trying to get to the next thing and then it switches to just be going this is so cool that yeah you can do this right and that's an amazing time it's an amazing time

22:09Howard Donald:to to be doing the thing you love right yeah yeah yeah my my big regret especially watching this Netflix things. I can see in my, the first hours, just 90s, and I can see in my face, that's all I'm doing is going, well, we're number one, but what about next week? Are we still going to be number one? Is so-and-so going to beat us? And I couldn't enjoy the number one, because you're already thinking, you know, of what's coming next. So when you're constantly living in the future like that, you're never present. You're just not enjoying it. No.

22:42Romesh Ranganathan:Now, we've actually got, we've got I've got Another present? Oh, nice No, this is not a present This is something I want to ask some questions about I thought it was a caravan We nearly got it It's the Take That Annual Official Annual Wow And inside of it It's got like a little fact file About each of you Oh, wow I've got that in a box somewhere You've got it It's got three boxes of them Yeah, yeah And you've got some There's little like questions in here So I thought I'd I'd ask you some of these questions See whether it's the same answer See how close your answers were to what you said. This is 94, 1994.

23:17Romesh Ranganathan:What do you think, first of all? Stunners, right? Stunners. Come on. That is, just imagine, just a guy there, lazy eye. Slightly chubbier than the rest. So down with that. Can't dance, can't write songs, can't sing. What is he there for? Sounds like you're fitting perfect. Okay, so here's our, Let's have a look at the first question here. We'll just see. So we've already answered these in the annual. You've answered them in here. Yeah. If there were to be a film. So this is Howard. This is your answer to this question. I'm going to ask the same question to all of you. If there were to be a film made of the take that story, who would you like to play you?

23:58Romesh Ranganathan:Rub it. You said. William. Defoe. Defoe. You need the answer to what he said. He always used to say that. Did it? It says maybe Tom Cruise, because I like the guy. and he's a top actor.

24:16Romesh Ranganathan:I'm surprised he didn't go to film reviews after that.

24:25Gary Barlow:I like the guy, he's a top actor.

24:29Romesh Ranganathan:Did you eat all the popcorn? Yeah. I'm surprised he didn't see it because at one point, Howard actually tipped the bowl into his face. I was one of you was answering the question and he was like this, like the cookie monster just

24:47Mark Owen:he managed to get away with it

24:49Romesh Ranganathan:completely undetected

24:51Mark Owen:I couldn't believe it that's why he sits on the end I did look at Matt when I put the ball down

24:58Romesh Ranganathan:Gary, do you remember what you said in 1994 to this question? Oh, about the actor if you get this I'll be absolutely staggered Really? Why is it not obvious? I would describe it as not obvious, yes. Oh, okay. But we do a good job, I think. Oh. They're still alive? Yep. Oh. Deirdre Barlow?

25:25Mark Owen:Where did that come from? I don't know. This is where I find someone funny.

25:31Howard Donald:Oh, it's a good one. I'm trying to think because you've given me a little hint. Leonardo DiCaprio. It's close. It's Whoopi Goldberg.

25:45Mark Owen:Is that the same question?

25:47Howard Donald:Is that true? Whoopi Goldberg. Is that true? Is it Whoopi Goldberg? In my defence.

25:55Romesh Ranganathan:In my defence. I'm looking, by the way, incredibly excited about this defence. Just select. I might not say it now, though.

26:05Howard Donald:I might take it as just great.

26:08Romesh Ranganathan:No, but do you know what I like about it? It's because it doesn't even say only joking. There's no, it's literally. I don't do a review like Howard. There's literally that just, it's just Whoopi Goldberg. So just a quick, just to clarify that.

26:23Howard Donald:I'm not trying to even defend myself. I love Star Trek. Right. And she was in Star Trek. Whoopi Goldberg was? I didn't know that. He went to Star Trek World in Vegas. Is that true? Are you a Star Trek fan? I've watched every episode and every film ever made. What's the best film? The films are hard because I don't really like the films. Arthur Conn? Not bad, but my favourite series is Deep Space Nine. Interestingly, the longest running series as well. They made more of them than anything else. I loved that. I don't think she's in that. Anyway, that would have been the reason I liked her.

27:03Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, well, there you go. Did you watch any of her other stuff? She was great in Jumping Jack Flash. Never seen it. Sister Act? Never seen it. Never seen it. No. No. It's so weird that you were not having seen her iconic roles. Color Purple. Star Trek. Color Purple. I was in Gold. Never seen it. In Gold. Ghost? I have. I've seen these.

27:28Romesh Ranganathan:Okay.

27:29Gary Barlow:Mark, what do you think you said? Oh, my God. Who would I have said? Let me think. Who would I have? Who was the guy out of Ferris Bueller's?

27:38Romesh Ranganathan:Matthew Broderick. Matthew Broderick. That's your guess. You said, it's a weird one, Sidney Poitier. No, I'm joking, I'm joking. You said, you said. You said. I was going to say who's that. It would have been nice for somebody like River Phoenix to play me because I thought he was a great actor. But with me being small, maybe Macaulay Culkin.

27:58Gary Barlow:Macaulay Culkin. What do you think? I gave a serious answer. Yeah, you did, yeah. I took the time to try and answer it properly. Yeah. What are you insinuating? Some people didn't.

28:07Howard Donald:No, well, there is one thing I'd like to add to this whole quiz. Sure. I mean, I'm not trying to – there's a great idea. Yeah, but the execution's – No, no, it's not that. It's nothing to do with you personally. But I wonder how much of this we were involved in.

28:23Romesh Ranganathan:It was a very busy time. Okay, Gary. Whoopi Goldberg is an answer. Gary, Gary, Gary, in defence of the makers of Take That Annual 1994, if you're sat around and you're going, who would play Gary in a movie? Could we spitball some ideas? I just put Woodby Goldberg. That feels like something Gary would say.

28:44Howard Donald:Maybe they didn't like us. No, I think only you would say it.

28:48Gary Barlow:I think what he's saying is only you would say it.

28:51Romesh Ranganathan:Nobody would put that as a, oh, let's just make it with that. Maybe we need to put something in that could get him cancelled in the future. If we need to. That's right. Yeah. here's your next question. If you, this one's going to you, Howard, first. If you weren't successful in music, what would you be doing now? Is that now, now? Well, I mean, in 1994, yeah,

29:18Mark Owen:sliding doors. Well, it would either be the job that I was doing as a vehicle painter, right? Or, um, something along those lines, like maybe an airline pilot,

29:31Romesh Ranganathan:airline pilot or vehicle painter airline pilot you put no you put probably dancing somewhere very hot like a strip bar

29:50Howard Donald:Gary what did you think you said I think I would have said a magician really yeah can you do magic well it was either going to be music or magic, I was that sad. You were that guy? Yeah,

30:04Mark Owen:I was.

30:05Romesh Ranganathan:You wouldn't tell us any tricks. Can you do tricks now? I can.

30:11Romesh Ranganathan:You said playing piano in a restaurant. Oh. Oh, I see. You guys really assumed you had higher aspirations. Okay, so what do you reckon you said, Mark? Footballer. Absolutely right. I'd probably be at college and still be trying to make it as a pro footballer. There you go. Come on.

30:33Howard Donald:Yes, come on. Well done. At last, one of us.

30:37Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Okay, here's your last one of these. What music is on your, so this, remember this is 94. What music is on your stereo at the moment? Howard, what do you think you said?

30:49Mark Owen:Maybe Beck, Chemical Brothers, Craftwork, Jean-Michel Jarre, I don't know.

30:56Romesh Ranganathan:Very, very cool. You actually said some demos I've recorded myself. That's when the trouble started. Just imagine Gary reading the end, you're going... It's the beginning and the end, this. Have you seen this? One of them's got fucking aspirations.

31:18Romesh Ranganathan:I better make some plans.

31:24Howard Donald:Gary, what do you think you said?

31:28Romesh Ranganathan:um 94 whoa four non-blondes four non-blondes it's a good guess you actually said aaron neville aaron neville love aaron neville still love aaron neville there you go amazing uh wow mark you what did you say what do you think you said sorry i've given i've got some song demos

31:49Gary Barlow:You gave it away with a laugh. Sorry. Trying to play me demos to Gary. I reckon Matt said Janet Jackson. No, I would have probably... Put some of my demos in Gary's stereo. Nirvana. I had a lizard called Nirvana.

32:04Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, yeah, you did. I've heard about this. Yeah. What was it like having a pet lizard? Cool. Sorry, I've got slightly distracted. Do they give anything back? Are they affectionate?

32:16Gary Barlow:Yeah. Yeah? He grew to quite a size. And was he just roaming around the house freely? Really? Shifting everywhere. Yeah, where did he shit? No, he had his own... Litter box? Like, area. With a UV over to keep it warm. This was eventually. Initially, it was just when I first got in. It was just a normal time. You said the new Colour Me Bad album.

32:44Romesh Ranganathan:Oh, yeah. I want to say, shoe up. All night. All night. Girl, you make me feel real good. This line's a bit dodgy. We can do it till we both wake up. What does that mean?

33:02Romesh Ranganathan:What the hell does that mean?

33:08Romesh Ranganathan:That means you're not both awake for any of this at any time.

33:16Gary Barlow:Call me bad, yeah. Just a thought. Call me very bad. And Boyz II Memories to that then. Oh, Boyz II Memories. They were awesome. Once upon a time, recently we sang with Boyz II Memories. Did you? 2019. In 2019, they came and sang with us. Oh, that's nice.

33:32Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, we'll do one more. Howard, favourite films? I'm not doing very well with this, am I?

33:40Mark Owen:You're doing great now, then. Platoon. Yeah. Oh God, that's the only one that springs to mind.

33:48Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, you said platoon. Yeah. Did he say platoon? Yeah. I don't know why I said it platoon. I said platoon. You said platoon. Platoon. Philadelphia. No, Philadelphia. Philadelphia. And born on the 4th of July. Oh, yeah. Big fan of comedy, I'd say. Okay. Gary, what do you reckon you said? You only said one. Did I? I'll give you that clue. Philadelphia. You did say Philadelphia. Yes. Wow. Last. That's impressive. Mark?

34:23Gary Barlow:You said three. E.T.? Yeah. It's always been probably one of my favorite. What about the one you said before? Fred Bueller's day off. Ferris Bueller's. Ferris Bueller's. But I'm trying to think around that time what might have said.

34:39Romesh Ranganathan:I'm surprised I didn't say Star Wars I'm surprised you didn't say Star Wars you said I really enjoyed I'm beginning to think maybe you guys watched this together I really enjoyed Philadelphia I think you did which is the last film I watched but Can't Buy Me Love and The Outsiders are two of my all time favourites great movie well there you go that was great well done we didn't do well did we no it was a bit of fun wasn't it I mean, how shit would this item have been if you just said that? Yeah. And I've gone, yeah. True. Yeah. So, you know, you gave entertainment. You always do. Well done, guys.

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36:03Gary Barlow:Bad advice? You talking to me?

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36:09Romesh Ranganathan:So you got this three-part documentary on Netflix. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. It's a great thing. And it's very, very, what I would say to, I mean, you're showing stuff that people, first of all, you can't believe how much stuff there was from those days, but also from the beginning and all that, all the footage and everything. But also, I think even the most ardent take that fan is going to see stuff that they weren't aware of. Right. And what was it like? Because I would say for you guys, it's quite exposing, I guess. I mean, how did you feel about the process of agreeing to do this? And how open were you willing to be about everything that happened?

36:49Gary Barlow:Well, Netflix came to visit us initially, maybe about two years ago.

36:56Romesh Ranganathan:Netflix came to you when we were out. They don't even reply to my emails. Do you want another special, guys? You don't even get a red receipt. They came to you.

37:06Gary Barlow:Yeah, they came to see us in rehearsals on the This Live tour and said, oh, we'd like to take that story. And then we were, like, obviously trying to learn our routines or, you know, get ready for the tour. So we were like, oh, yeah, brilliant. Sounds good. See you, bye.

37:31Gary Barlow:and then and then and then and then we never sort of saw her for like a year and a half right and we were kind of thinking oh they forgot you know they forgot all about it and we thought oh they probably do this to every band every yeah turn up a one thing no they said see you bye but anyway um yeah so then it became more official and then obviously they went round to everybody's house. Netflix came up to my mum and dad's house and went into the attic to, you know, find bits of memorabilia. Find memorabilia. Yeah, yeah. And like smash it to wards. All the old stuff was up there. And anyway, they turned up at Howard's and they found loads of...

38:17Gary Barlow:Apparently you've got loads of stuff, is that right? He's a hoarder. Really? He still has the high eight stuff and old VHS,

38:23Mark Owen:you know, the old thick VHS tapes that you have to put in like a... He still has the do-what-you-like jacket. Really? The original. He keeps everything. There's a lot of stuff. Yeah, I mean, I've got to.

38:31Romesh Ranganathan:Could the documentary just spin about your hoarding? It could have been.

38:35Gary Barlow:I think that's the following. Yeah, they do.

38:37Mark Owen:We do programs on that in America, don't they? Don't they hoard us? Just Howard calling for a room gun.

38:42Romesh Ranganathan:I'll get rid of some of this in a bit, I promise. He has so much.

38:46Mark Owen:So we were lucky in the fact that, you know, When we did the first documentary, which was kind of made in 2005, they asked us to, after we'd done that, they asked us to destroy all the tapes. And luckily it didn't destroy all the tapes. So a lot of the stuff that you see on this three-parter is stuff, even stuff I've never seen since the 90s. So it comes as a surprise to us as well.

39:15Romesh Ranganathan:you know because because the thing about it is like um i think that particularly in the beginning that what the the battle i guess you guys had was your sort of relationships as a band and your kind of interaction with what was happening to you or what you were engaging in and sort of the demands of the industry and all of the pressures that were putting on being put on you you know gary in particular you know obviously as a songwriter sometimes you know you talk to musicians now and they say, oh, I write the songs when they come to me. You didn't have that luxury, right? So what was that like, that butting up of creativity against the demands?

39:50Howard Donald:Well, that's the other thing. I never believe that when people say that. I woke up and the song was like, oh, my God, please, please, please just once can that happen to me. It's like a battle getting a song out and getting it the way you hear it and imagine it. It's never easy that. but and also the thing the thing was for me is that when I joined the group I was like so old fashioned like I was still in the 80s playing the organ that I started and and being around these guys and listening to the charts I was like I've got to learn quick here so I was kind of trying to catch up trying to modernize my as well as trying to write hit records and it was there was so much pressure on it.

40:38Howard Donald:And not just that, we'd done, you know, had all this time and all these years for me to gather these songs. Once the first record was finished, like everyone would book their holidays, right, I'm going Magaluf, I'm going off to wherever. And they went, we need the next album in two weeks. Right, but Nigel did take you to Miami.

41:01Gary Barlow:He never took us. Nigel did go, listen, Gary, we need the next record. I'm going to take you to my army for two weeks.

41:09Romesh Ranganathan:And do you think all the resentment's been put to bed now? It has now.

41:18Gary Barlow:Yeah.

41:22Howard Donald:So in answer to your initial question, do you know what, it didn't feel like it, when I look back at it, I go, God, that was hard. It didn't feel like it at the time. It didn't feel hard at the time. It felt like I can do that.

41:35Gary Barlow:Right. I can do that. It was wonderful for us because we'd always get back in the car and Gazza'd play us. He had these cassette tapes. Remember cassette tapes? Yeah, oh, yeah. And so he'd be playing us in his car, his cassettes of the new songs. And it was always really exciting. Yeah, yeah. Really exciting. It was so deep. We wanted to hear what he was doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, can we hear anything? And I was excited for them to hear it as well

42:00Howard Donald:because I remember there was definitely a period where, you know, in the charts was all the, you know, it was that cool music. And I knew you lot wanted that music. And I was there writing a million love songs. Hey, check the sax solo on this, guys. And I knew everyone was like, what are we going to do?

42:22Gary Barlow:But we still dance like idiots behind you. It's true. It was like, well, we can still do a routine to it.

42:30Romesh Ranganathan:How was it? What was it like for you? You know, I mean, you talk about this in documentary, but being in the band, Gary being the songwriter, was it a difficult thing for you to kind of have a relationship with in terms of your roles in the band?

42:45Mark Owen:No, not at all. I think the way I got into the band was because I was a dancer. Yeah. So me and Jason used to make up a lot of the dance routines, so therefore I felt I had worth. You know, I felt that I had a role in the band. obviously I've always been into music from like the electronic period of craft work and all that stuff so there's always been an interest there and I've always been had my hands on DJing since the middle of mid 80s so I've got a shed load of vinyl so do you go and do the clubs yeah yeah yeah still I do like twice a month but so I keep my foot in the door sort of thing so I've always had an interest in it and a lot of the time I would go along to some of the writing sessions with Gary when he was writing with other people.

43:35Mark Owen:Oh, guys, do you just let me write this? No, no, no. You just listen, son. Listen, learn, listen and learn. Listen to the match. See if you can soak up some magic just by being in the room.

43:47Romesh Ranganathan:Watching learn, kids. Oh, that's funny. What's ever? Go. Just sit down. You're very lucky to be in here.

43:56Mark Owen:I think in general, there's a keyboard. Turn it down. Put your headphones on. I think in general, there was never of that ill feeling, you know, cut off that. Although we all still, you know, by the end of Take That, you know, when it started becoming like 95, 96, we sort of wanted to, you know, push ourselves in there and start writing. We were getting more and more interested in writing.

44:19Howard Donald:Bloody nuisances.

44:20Mark Owen:And that's the whole reason Gary Cotton said we should split up.

44:29Romesh Ranganathan:Listen, lads, I've taken on board what you said and I've thought about it for a while. It's over.

44:37Romesh Ranganathan:Put it right on the head. Oh, you were there.

44:42Gary Barlow:You was in the band.

44:46Romesh Ranganathan:No, we've actually got a question from my mum. I don't know what this question is. She sent in a voice note, so I don't know what this is. So apologies in advance. Oh, gosh. I've got neither.

44:55Howard Donald:Hi, Gary, Mark and Howard. Hello. I have been a fan of yours for a long time. I think you are all absolutely gorgeous. Oh, God. What's the most unusual present you have ever received from a fan? Thank you. It's a present. Have a blessed day. Love you all.

45:18Romesh Ranganathan:Unusual present from a fan.

45:19Mark Owen:Thank you so much, Mum. I'd say off the top of my head, any time you went to Japan, you'd do a fan service thing where you'd be lined up in the Lordy Bay. Explain it. It sounds bad. Eh? explain it. Fan service is where they call it fan service and you line up in the loading bay at the back of the hotel. Robbie, me, Matt, Gary, Jason. Great turn that corner. I'm just waiting for it to not sound bad. The fans would line up in the lines of the members that they liked. And then we'd take our clothes.

46:03Mark Owen:I remember hinting to this Japanese fan who were fans of me and Mark. I remember hinting and saying, oh, you know, the latest DAT machine, you remember DAT?

46:12Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, yeah.

46:13Mark Owen:The latest DAT machines coming out and stuff like that. Two days later, she bought me and Mark a mobile DAT machine, which at the time were probably about 380, 400 quid each. So the fan service, they'd queue up.

46:25Romesh Ranganathan:Gary still wants to get this. I've got to get this straight.

46:29Howard Donald:because we still have to go on tour this year and make a new record. They used to queue up, right, and in the line of their favourite member and they'd come forward and bring us presents. That was the service, the fan service. We'd say hello and they'd give you a present.

46:48Mark Owen:They called it fan service. That's why we've always called it fan service.

46:52Romesh Ranganathan:Let's just get that cleared up. That's good. Thank you so much. Is that good? That's really great. I mean, we'll snip that out. I think it sounded a bit more dangerous and edgy during the original version. I want to talk a little bit about 90s fashion, or 90s generally. Do you miss the 90s?

47:09Mark Owen:Yeah, I think so, yeah. Especially, yeah, when it comes to music being played all over the radio, it's like, I don't really think you could get rid of us. No. To be honest with you. And I think missing the 90s, I'd say it'd be nice to go back for a week, as in the band, but to actually experience that six years again would be a bit of a nightmare.

47:31Romesh Ranganathan:When you look back at those times, because you've all sort of alluded to the fact that either you couldn't really get to grips with how good the experience or whatever, for whatever reason, do you look back on it going, I wish I'd done it differently? Or do you look back on it going, that was part of the thing that's got us to where we are now? You know, you have to sort of go through that to get to the point where you've learned your lessons and all that?

47:54Howard Donald:Yeah, I guess so. I guess, you know, you want to look at it because you're here now, you don't want to change any of it, but there's obviously bits. You look back and go, oh, God, it would have been so easy to have done that better and differently and all the rest of it. But, yeah, I'm a bit with Howard that, like, it was brilliant and insane and all the rest of it, but it was also a bit of a nightmare. A lot of it was a nightmare.

48:18Romesh Ranganathan:What was sort of the most nightmarish thing about it then for you?

48:21Mark Owen:I think it was work. I mean, I know Gary probably worked that little bit harder than us with having to have stuff ready, but I think it was almost that intense that you couldn't really enjoy it, and it was a massive... Nothing can prepare you for the massive intrusion of privacy, of what you had, and the fame. And like you say, you get the screaming girls, and that comes with it as well, which to a lot of people would love, but it wasn't... Did you love it initially? Yeah, initially you love it, but then after a time, it's kind of like, you know, especially when you're doing gigs and you don't have in-ears and they're just screaming, you can't even hear the music you're singing and they can't even hear the music that's being played.

49:06Mark Owen:Yeah. Yeah, I think it was, yeah, it was a difficult period, I think.

49:10Gary Barlow:Is that how you feel about it, Mark? We were sort of learning on the job. We didn't really have anybody around us who were going, oh, this is what you should do next. It was sort of coming from within the band or with Gary. But at the same time, it was an incredible experience. Would I want to go back and do it again? No, I wouldn't want to go back and do it again. But I'm so glad that we got to come back and do it in a different way, work with each other in a different way. And I'm so glad that we got to here now. and so it's and when I look back on the life that we've had as a band and all the different formations of us as a band I'm really glad that we're all still here, the five of us are all still you know in the room in theory and still talking to each other and spending time together so I'm glad that I mean this in the nicest way but I'm glad that I wasn't watching the television with somebody else going, what, them?

50:23Gary Barlow:They're going to last five minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad that I was in it.

50:26Romesh Ranganathan:Basically, if you sort of boil that down, you're glad you weren't me. Thank you. Thanks, Mark.

50:31Gary Barlow:Yeah. No, it makes sense. Yeah, fuck the haters. I get it. I get it.

50:38Romesh Ranganathan:Now, we've got a little game for you. So this is a game called Misquoted.

50:47Romesh Ranganathan:It's misquoted. We've got three quotes here. Three of them are real. Sorry, five quotes. Three real, two made up. Okay. It could be any one of you that said this. All right. And I just want you to tell me if you think one of you said it. Okay. And then it leads to fun light chat. Great. There'll be some follow-up questions. We'll have a bit of a laugh and all that. I like the fact that you put into this. Okay. So here's the first one. beards can get why did i say it like that beards can get a bit sweaty do you think any of you said that howard that would be a howard line that would howard do you think you said it um me or jason it was on bbc breakfast 2022 and it was mark owen oh my god and it was in the process of it It was obviously quite a hard-hitting interview.

51:44Romesh Ranganathan:You were talking about your moustache. You've got a good moustache. Well, actually, I'm going to tell you this. I'm in a bit of a – I've got this for the play. Right. But my kids have started calling me Apu. Apu. You know, from The Simpsons. You know, they keep asking when I'm going to open the quickie mark. It's not sexy. Buggers, aren't they? Yeah. It's not sexy, is it?

52:09Gary Barlow:so I think I probably said that because I we'd had you know a couple of years off so I think I'd grown a beard and then I took my beard down to a tash

52:20Romesh Ranganathan:which I quite like I think you're really suited though oh thanks man finally a compliment from you from you guys off to Mark's little slam let's just say I'm glad I wasn't that sad little bastard sat with his girlfriend go there You know, that's the lesson, Romesh, really. You could be arse. We should have ended it there. Really. You could be arse or you could be you. You said it, not me. Okay, here's your next one. So that was Rob. I mean, I'll give that to you because you didn't get the right person, but it was true. We came back not knowing what it would be like if we would still have fans.

53:03Romesh Ranganathan:I think we definitely said that.

53:04Mark Owen:Definitely said that. And he gets us in here. No.

53:11Romesh Ranganathan:He says stuff all the time, doesn't he? I don't know who said that.

53:14Mark Owen:I don't know who said it. I can't remember. I'm going to say me. Yeah. Okay.

53:17Romesh Ranganathan:Is that your final answer?

53:18Mark Owen:Yes. Yeah. It's got serious. You say Gary. Yeah, say Gary.

53:22Romesh Ranganathan:It was Howard. Oh, Mark. Howard, you said it in 2018 on Loose Women. Oh, we do all the big ones. Congratulations on that one.

53:34Mark Owen:When did you go on Loose Women? Loose women, not with us. No, maybe I did it because I did the Masked Dancer. Oh. Yeah, I think that's where it might be from. Well, that was good from us. That was obviously afterwards. That was afterwards, though. After the competition. Yeah.

53:54Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, so we'll give you that. Here's your next one. People don't think we're very rock and roll, but after a gig, I get to the hotel all psyched up from being on stage and get stuck into a homes and interiors magazine. It can get pretty wild. That sounds like me. It's Gary. That's me. That's definitely Gary. We don't know where this is from, but it's attached to you.

54:19Howard Donald:Yeah. That's a 90s quote.

54:21Romesh Ranganathan:You've been quoted saying, after you get to the gig, after a gig, I'd totally all psyched up from being on stage, get stuck into homes and interiors magazine and think about how Whoopi Goldberg would play me. That's the whole quote. That's definitely me.

54:36Gary Barlow:Now he's starting to make sense.

54:39Romesh Ranganathan:Okay, here's your next one. For the first time, I asked Robbie for two tickets for a gig of his and got them. I didn't go.

54:49Mark Owen:Howard. I don't think anyone said that. No, I don't think so.

54:54Gary Barlow:Oh, is there a nobody asked for any? Yeah, yeah. Oh, you didn't know there were any? I didn't know it was true of ours. Oh, sorry, sorry. I thought we just had to guess who said. Yeah. No, no. Somebody. I've got the rules across on the plate. I got two tickets off him for somebody. Got one job. Howard got two tickets last year for somebody. I got two tickets for somebody else, but I didn't go. Yeah, that's what they quoted.

55:17Romesh Ranganathan:But this is Robbie specific though.

55:20Gary Barlow:Yeah, that was Howard this year. You got two tickets for Rob's concert this year.

55:24Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah, but that was for someone else. So I can tell you, Howard, you did say all of it apart from the I didn't go. Oh, right. We're being a bit sneaky. Steering the pot. We did something clippable. Okay, here's your last one. And these are true and false, by the way. True and false, potentially. Okay, okay. So it's a double whammy. Somebody could have not said anything. Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, this is the first time I've interviewed three people simultaneously.

55:52Howard Donald:Is it really?

55:53Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Oh, it is. But on this. Oh, yeah. I've done it on Radio 2. Okay, here's your last one. we weren't a boy band that's the end of the question Mark, me Mark, it was you how did you know you said that?

56:09Gary Barlow:well because I still because when we were put together when we came together I don't think the quote was made so we were like a I would say we were like a pop group a manufactured pop group so we later became a boy band after probably girl bands. So we became a boy band over time. Right, got you. But we started off as a pop. You evolved into that. We evolved into the boy band, but initially I think we were a pop group. I think.

56:42Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Is it weird, like you've got, you're sort of, you know, you're going to, with this documentary and you doing the tour and everything, you're going to come across, you're going to meet loads of fans again, you know, people that have seen you again and people that come and see the Circus Store for the first time, you're going to be meeting people who you are coded into their lives. You know, so many of their memories and so many of their, you know, their core memories of like when they were growing up, you are such an integral part of that. And for that reason, you can be played at birthdays, at weddings, at funerals, all of that.

57:18Does that, what's your relationship with all of that?

57:21Romesh Ranganathan:Have you got used to that? Are you okay with that? You know, or does it still feel weird? to have that, to have that bigger part to play in, in so many people's lives.

57:32Howard Donald:We're just so lucky to have that because that is ultimately, I think why we all, we try and write good songs and do good, is that you want to be part of people's lives. You just want to be initially part of their night, you know, give the audience the best night out they could have. And so for you to even, you know, allude to that, I think that's probably one of our most proudest things is that we are part of people's lives.

57:58Gary Barlow:And they're part of ours as well, you know, over the years, the audience and sort of coming on the journey with us. It's been beautiful to have that.

58:10Mark Owen:I think it also depends on what mood you're in as well. You know, I can do a DJ gig and there might be 500 girls there and they're almost acting sometimes like the 90s. And you have to literally pinch yourself and say, is this really happening? Why is this still happening for me? I've never really got my head around it. I find it difficult.

58:39Romesh Ranganathan:What is it like? Because it must be such a weird experience for people coming to see you. Because what happens is as you get older, you're sort of like, the way that you fan over people changes, right? Like, you know, you sort of think when you're younger, you just like lose your shit. And then as you get older, you still really appreciate and are a fan of people, but you're a bit more measured with it. You've got a load of people that come and see that you are part of that losing their shit part of their lives. Do they still lose their shit? I mean, like what's their, for want of a better phrase, because I like the vocabulary, but like, what is it?

59:13Romesh Ranganathan:Are they a bit more measured or do people like freak out? Do you have people in their like 40s and stuff just absolutely freaking out when they see you? The gigs are amazing.

59:21Howard Donald:I think they are. They're still as loud and as crazy as they always were. And I almost feel like people come to kind of be that again. That's part of the night, being like that. Just brilliant. And the great thing as well is looking out in our audiences and seeing like three generations now. It's just fantastic.

59:44Romesh Ranganathan:Yeah. Do you have any ambitions left? Do you have anything that you're thinking, we'd love to do this before we completely stop, or have you done it? You're just enjoying the ride.

59:55Gary Barlow:Wow.

59:57Romesh Ranganathan:I mean, I know you want to go to Graceland, but that doesn't feel take that.

1:00:02Gary Barlow:I mean, to be able to keep going is great. At this level. At this level. To make music and be able to keep going is wonderful. and what we try to do initially. I would love for us to get to Glastonbury at some point.

1:00:23Romesh Ranganathan:That's surely completely feasible. Can you have a word? Mate, I can. I mean, they won't let me do a five-minute stand-up.

1:00:30Gary Barlow:Do you know, I think maybe it was last year. At some point, I don't know when it was now, but at some point recently I just thought, I've been to Glastonbury as a fan so many times and I've seen like R.E.M. and Radiohead and like... Colour me bad. Arty monkeys, colour me bad. I've seen them all. And so I am a fan of Glastonbury as going anyway. And I'd love one day to be able to perform there. Yeah. To be on the bill there, you know. There are them posters that come out and it has your name on it. It'd be really nice to have one that says Glastonbury Tater. Yeah.

1:01:12Romesh Ranganathan:That feels... I'm going to have a word. Yeah. I don't have any contacts currently, but I'll make it happen. Don't worry about that. Imagine if it was down to me. Yeah. Yeah. That might be my new ambition now.

1:01:26Mark Owen:Yeah. And I'll say, you had a good idea there. We'll give you five minutes in one of the temps. Now, before...

1:01:32Romesh Ranganathan:Who's ready for take that? Before take that... This is the warm up. Romesh Raggedova's written some stuff about airline food. and he could have beaten him take that he said they'd last

1:01:44Howard Donald:five minutes here they are

1:01:48Romesh Ranganathan:I think it'd be a nice thing yeah I think that feels feasible we're gonna should we work on that yeah you don't sound convinced I don't think it's in our especially I don't think it's in either of our powers is it I think I reckon I reckon I could give it a go this mic's pretty powerful yeah I think we could I think we can there you go It's not on this year though. Pardon? It's not on this year. Yeah. I was thinking this year would be easier.

1:02:16Romesh Ranganathan:In fairness to me, you didn't say during the festival, you just said Glastonbury. Yeah, yeah. In Glastonbury.

1:02:23Gary Barlow:Oh, you didn't meet in the festival, did you? Can you imagine?

1:02:27Romesh Ranganathan:Paul's up. You didn't mean that big thing. It is Glastonbury though, Mark. That's what you wanted. And then there's a poster at the front of the pub. now guys it's been it's been an absolute pleasure to talk to you and like even um as somebody that i would describe myself initially as a nemesis of take that you know because of my you know seeing you know growing up and seeing you guys you know carry on and have the career that you have done and also the way you come across and i even chatting to you today it's uh it's it's a you're a wonderful part of of uh the british culture and for that i thank you but thank you so thank you so much for coming on the show thank you thank you thank you we would love some sort of um an exclusive right like some sort of uh you know titbit we normally ask for something kind of scandalous i mean i'm not gonna be i'll be honest with you if you don't give us anything the fan service thing could go any direction that could be it yeah or if you don't want to do that just like a little a little snippet of one of your songs would be amazing or you can give us exclusive whatever you prefer i want it to be as painless as possible i mean there is also if you if one of them was more favorable there is a keyboard behind that oh do you want to play keys or is it for gary

1:03:45Romesh Ranganathan:rob let the songwriter no but i've got something i want to oh by the way we've got to mention we've got to mention this so

1:03:55Howard Donald:I had to listen to that

1:03:57Romesh Ranganathan:I know come on I know can you still play it or not I don't think so well you couldn't for Radio 2 I learnt I learnt back for good that word learnt you've used that a bit so basically I learnt I don't know if you you won't have seen this because why would you but and also there's no reason to have but I learnt I say learnt I tried do you know what I was about to do Gary genuinely when you said don't say learnt I nearly said mastered. That was the next word I was going to go to. Wow. I sort of tried to... This play's changed you. Those reviews. I stumbled my way through it. Brilliant. And then I played it.

1:04:40Romesh Ranganathan:Sally Traffic from Radio 2 did the vocals. Both of us did. Yeah. And then they surprised me. Gary was on a video call. It was so... It was brilliant. It was so lovely to see you. It was a great moment. but also I felt like I'd committed sacrilege. And it's all right to commit sacrilege behind someone's back, but to have them on video call, it was horrendous. Do you know what I mean? There's a mic here. Do you still want the mic in? No, you don't. We've got three mics. What am I doing? That's analog here.

1:05:07Howard Donald:What have we got?

1:05:08Romesh Ranganathan:Okay.

1:05:14Howard Donald:What should we do?

1:05:17Romesh Ranganathan:He's not up for it at all. Mark, this could be a solo song. Honestly, Mark, what do you want to do, Mark? I don't know. I'm just sorry. I'm jet lagged. Have you... This is the one that you're using on Circus Tour, I believe.

1:05:41Howard Donald:That doesn't make sense. It's not working right, this. Great! Mark's relieved

1:05:51Gary Barlow:They're not playing the right notes But it could be batteries Can you see if you can remember your back for good

1:05:56Romesh Ranganathan:Whatever I said Whatever I did I didn't mean it I just want you back for good Want you back Want you back Want you back for good There you go Thank you so much Thank you so much for watching this episode of the Romesh Ragnar Ranganathan show. I've been told that some of you are watching this, enjoying it, wallowing in it, but you still haven't subscribed. That's mad behaviour. You're going to miss episodes. Very silly. So follow and subscribe to the Ramesh Ranganathan show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. We drop new episodes every Monday and Thursday. On Monday, I'm here with amazing guests talking about their career, what they're up to, having a laugh with them.

1:06:38Romesh Ranganathan:And then on Thursdays, I'm joined by my mum, widely regarded as the audience's favourite at Ranganathan. And we answer your questions, your stories and your family dilemmas. So I'll see you on Thursday when I'm back here with my mum, Shandy. Send your questions and stories to podcast at rangaby.com. Voice note or text on 07731 623 355. We genuinely love hearing from you and there's a good chance you'll hear yourself on the show. See you next time. Oh, shut up, Romesh.

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1:08:03Mark Owen:Let's be real.